Getting Pucks in Deep | Beartown - Page Deep Podcast

Getting Pucks in Deep | Beartown

Episode 5 • 15th May 2026 • Page Deep Podcast • Page Deep

Late one evening toward the end of March, a teenager picked up a double barrel shotgun, walked into the forest, put the gun to someone else's forehead,

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and pulled the trigger. This is the story of how we got there. It's deep. Page deep.

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I think instead of Well, I guess I'll also read the synopsis and then we can decide what to keep in because I'm looking at the um like the inside of the

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cover here and it has like a pretty succinct succinct description of what the book is and it reads, "Beartown has

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always been told it's second best. Now its junior ice hockey team has a chance to become champions, but it's what happens off the ice that will change

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this town forever." Which I think is like so good. So good.

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I don't know. There are like lines in this that are like in any other book I would be like that is the goofiest, cringiest, corniest [ __ ] ever.

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My fingers hurt. I was highlighting so much.

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Yeah. And and in this book, I don't know how what crack he was putting in it, but it works so well. Every every chapter begins with like a not like a oneliner,

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but like um just basically like a short Yeah. I there's a there is a good word for it that I heard someone say and that I cannot remember anymore and it is going

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to piss me off really bad. Um but every chapter will start with well most of the chapters will start with something like that some line that will repeat itself

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at the end of the chapter or nearing the end of the chapter and they are lines that like I look at and I'm like if this had been any other book I would be like that's so corny I need to put it down.

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And I'm looking at it in this book and I'm like this is profound beyond anything I have ever read. It works so well. And I think I mean

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there's Okay, so backstory I guess for why I mean you talked about kind of why you

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were emotional reading this, which I I'm actually surprised. I didn't expect that. I thought I was going to be like the emotional one here.

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Yeah. Well, you know what? Like I I want to like explain myself a little bit because I picked this book um and I picked it for you more so than me. Um, I

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was interested in Frederick Bachmann and his work. Um, I just hadn't picked up anything by him like yet and I was like, "Oh, let's let's pick up Beartown. It

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gets really good reviews. People say they really like it." I don't know anything about hockey. I don't really particularly care about hockey beyond

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caring that you care about hockey. Um, so I care by extension, I think. Um, but I picked it up and from

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like the first couple of pages I was like, I already care so much. Like I you you

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this book like radiates love for something that I've never loved and it's like infectious. I can't like begin to

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explain what a strange experience it is to look at at something that I've never like given a second thought to like

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hockey and be like this is now the most important thing in my world because it's the most important thing in these characters' worlds. Like it's it's such

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a beautiful experience. And I think that if you don't care about hockey, it's honestly a better experience. Like I feel like I probably I might have had

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like a more emotional experience than you did. Okay.

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Maybe cuz I'm I was like further removed from everything really in this. I I did grow up with like the small town experience

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though, so there was like that connection to it for me which like definitely like hit me pretty hard. Yeah. Um, but

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the hockey portion of it, which is like the main part of this book, no connection to, I left feeling like it was my whole world. It was really

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incredible. I I think so. Props to you, Frederick, for making me care about hockey. Not something I thought would

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ever be possible to this extent, but I care a lot now.

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I Yeah. Wow. Yeah, the the comment like it left you feeling like you were like it was your whole world.

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Yeah. Imagine.

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So, okay. So, the the background for for my approach to this book is I'm a longtime hockey fan. I'm a

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long-suffering Kucks fan, obviously, and um and a Golden Ice fan. And like everything hockey, I love it. I've been

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in around it a long time. I work in junior hockey. I read a lot of this book, like a big section of this book on

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break at work in the local like in our local ranks at the rink.

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At the rink I was reading this book. So I was like fully like you were on I was living breathing hockey in every

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possible manner. So, I was really like I mean from the get-go I was emotionally invested in this book and then um it oh so tenderly ripped my

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arm ripped my heart out and stomped on it and then um gently patched me back up

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and put it back in my chest. Uh the worst for wear I would argue. Um, so

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yeah, I now like kind of immediately need to wait to for emotional stability before I read the next two cuz I know the next

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two are going to do exactly the same thing to me. But yeah, I was very emotional reading this book. I don't think I cried nec No, I cried a little

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bit. I cried at the end. I cried at the end, but I was emotional all the way through, for sure.

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Yeah. Yeah. I I'm not I feel like I'm not a crier, but when I do cry, it is like hyperventilating, snotting everywhere.

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Yeah. I'm like, it's not going to stop.

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Which is funny cuz I didn't read this book like all in one sitting. It was broken up. So, I like paused my emotional breakdown that I was having

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until the next time I read it. And then it continued on and it was like, surely I'll be all right next time I pick this book up in a day or two when I've

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emotionally recuperated. And then, nope, sure enough, the second I pick it up and I'm reading, I'm like, "Yep, it's a it's it's all it's coming. It's here."

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Yeah, it's coming.

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Yeah. Putting um, you know, having an intermission in the junior hockey

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game I'm at in real life, picking up this book to to read about junior hockey players, putting the book

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down because intermission is over, to go on to the second period of the junior hockey game. Um

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I don't know. I like Wow. It's so It's interesting because I mean it's it's a translation.

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Yes.

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So obviously that's going to affect like the language a little bit, but I think the style is really interesting. Like it's so unbelievably like it's really

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profound and yet it does so so efficiently. This is a honestly the the form of this book is unlike anything

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I've ever read and I'm shocked that it works as well as it does because it's told from this frequently shifting third

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person perspective. Um, and it's present tense which is not something that I ever read. Um, and I going into it was like

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from the first page I was like this is different than what I'm used to. I don't know if I'm going to like it. Let's give it a shot. And oh my god, the the way

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that it worked is like unbelievable. I don't think any other book has had like the for like its form works so well in

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its favor because there are so many parts of this book that I look at and I think I if this were slightly different, I could see how people would absolutely

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hate this. Like I say, like with the the opening to all the chapters, when I look at it, I think this could be so corny in a different context. But then in the

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book it just like works so well and it's like again like with the like perspective that's something that I usually don't enjoy. Like this

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incredibly shifty third person perspective is not something I enjoy.

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Loved it in this book. The present tense loved in this book cuz everything is happening like in the moment. So, it's like you're really you're right there. Mhm.

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And it's like it's just it's this combination of things that like wouldn't work for me normally that just all put

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together in his style just like mesh perfectly and just like create this like beautiful experience

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and there's so much subtext there and like yeah like you're saying like the present tense the third person the third person allows you to kind of like

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bounce around through all these different aspects in such a profound way and like really go in depth on all of these different characters and then the

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present tense like creates this sort of like anxious tension. Yeah.

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Which I loved and Well, you know, I loved aesthetically I was in pain the whole time because I was so emotionally distraught.

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Beautiful torture.

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Yeah. No, exactly. It hurts so good as they say.

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Um, so this Beartown, the town is a small town. It has very few people. you will

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know these people more intimately than your own family by the end of this book.

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It feels like because this the the focus on this book shifts between it feels like everyone in this town. Um and

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there's so many characters um that this book follows both like on the team and off the team who are like related to people on the team or like have ties to

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them um that you know about um and that you will feel for. And I have a list here of

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all of the important named characters, but I don't think that there's a single character in this book that is not important or less important or

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doesn't serve a purpose. I think that every character in this serves a purpose, which is beautiful. I love that. I love the characterization in this novel. I don't think any one

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character could like not be in this book and it would work, you know, like this book couldn't function if it wasn't

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exactly as heavily loaded with this cast as it is.

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Um, so I'm going to start with on the team um the Beartown Junior team. Oh, you want to I was going to say I think um before getting into sort of like the

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nitty-gritty of characters just as a a quick rundown like preemptively um there's kind of a couple of like main

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sort of subgroupings of characters that sort of like pass back and forth over each other interacting like sort of here

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and there. But I think the main two groups for like the actual plot of this

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book is um the GM of this junior team and or

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sorry the um the GM of the the like the rink the the hockey club

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the hockey club. I I put down in my notes um Peter Anderson is the general manager of the Beartown Hockey Club and then I was like what if I'm completely

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wrong and that's just like not his job and I'm misunderstanding how the general manager um yeah so he's general manager he's a former

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NHL player and it's about mostly him his wife and his daughter

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and the junior team star player

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heaven. And the main section is that like the main

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contention like thing plot is that Kevin rapes Peter's daughter Maya.

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That's the main plot here.

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I was going to get into it a little bit more after, but like it's good to just Yeah, that's that's the tableing.

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Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure there was a trigger warning to get the beating, but if like you didn't catch the trigger warning for whatever reason, we're going to talk about um what is the incredibly tragic

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accident or accident? The incredibly tragic thing incident is the word I was looking for. Incident that happens in the book, which is that there's a rape that occurs.

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Um so if you're sensitive to that, like now's the time to maybe hop off. Um but yeah, I've separated my list of

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characters into on the team and not on the team. Um just for like sake of purely for the sake of simplicity. Yeah.

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Um on the team we have Kevin who is the star player Golden Boy. He's one of I would say like the big three in this

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book maybe. Um we have Benji, Kevin's best friend and the team's enforcer. Bobo who's kind of like the club clown.

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Um William Lit uh who's one of the team starters. Philillip who's like this unsung backbone of the team kind of player. um Amat who's a newcomer who's

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much younger and smaller than everyone else on the team and is a friend of Ma's um and David who is the team's coach.

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And then not on the team we have Peter Anderson, the general manager of Beartown Hockey Club and a former NHL player who is the father of Myra

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Anderson, a 15-year-old girl and the daughter of Peter and Kira. Um we have Anna, who is Maya's best friend. We have Kira, who is Ma's mother and a lawyer.

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Um, we have Leo, who is Maya's younger brother. And then we have Zach, who is Amat's friend. We have Fatima, who is

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Amat's mother. We have Soon, who is Beartown's a team hockey coach. We have Ramona, who is the owner of the local

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pub, The Bears Skin. We have Megan Lit, who is the I have the note here. Oh my god, I just forgot that I wrote this and

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I was supposed to take it out. Um, she's the resident Karen.

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Um, she's like she is the soccer mom. Mhm.

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Um, William Lit's mother.

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William Lit's mother. Uh, we have Janette, who is a teacher at the local high school. We have Tails, a former Beartown player and a current sponsor.

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We have Hog and Anna Katrine, uh, who are Bogo's parents. We have Adri Katya and Gabby, who are Benji's sisters. And

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these are, in my opinion, like the core cast. There are so many other characters. I have in my notes here that I cut 15 characters.

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It's probably more than that. There are characters that are unnamed. There are characters that like only appear for a little bit. Ignore what I don't look at

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my notes because my notes um there's this I have to share this because this is so funny. One of your notes just says sit back and let Claire

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talk about hockey for the middle portion. I was like let's imag let's let's just prepare for a little bit of time here in which there

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will be hockey talk. That's what I've You've allotted my you've allotted my section of the section of hockey talk. talk. Yeah. Wow.

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But yeah, um one of my favorite characters didn't make the list, which is um Kira's coworker. Oh, yeah.

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Who is unnamed and probably one of the best quotes in the whole book um is in reference to her, which is when Kira

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says um I'm jealous of her middle finger cuz it gets use or something like that.

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And I literally like that was the first note that I like highlighted and I put like four stars around it and I was like this is baller. This is so good. But

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like there are all these incredibly incredibly human characters that just get they're so welldeveloped. They have such

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clear motivations and like issues and you know like complexities and like it's

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so hard. I mean, even like um Megan Lit, like even for her, it's so hard not to understand where she's coming from and

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like sympathize with her for to a level and like feel bad for her. And yeah, even even the bad guys are still

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guys in this. Like you still you still have that human connection to all of them.

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Um I found the quote here. I'm like I'm just so enamored by this woman. She always says that she envys Kira's brain.

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In return, Kira is envious of her colleagueu's middle finger, which gets regular use. Kira smiles wearily, which is so good,

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too. Like, it it cannot we will never be able to summarize this in a way that does this story justice.

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No, I highly recommend reading this if you know nothing about hockey. If you have never even like if you don't live in if you are from the middle of the desert,

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you have never seen a hockey game in your life, you have just now learned what hockey even is, I still recommend this book. It's so good. It's so well

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written. I mean, this is the This is probably the first book I've read in a really long time that was an automatic, no questions asked. Five stars for me.

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Yeah. This, like you said, like if you know nothing about hockey, I recommend you reading this as someone who knows well maybe not nothing, but at least very little about hockey.

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We're well matched for that because I know a lot about hockey and I'm kind of obsessed with it and you know nothing about hockey. There were a good sort of like

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I think that like from my my perspective if there's anything that I could say to like urge you as a non- hockey fan to read this book is that you will not be

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coming for the hockey but you will be staying for the hockey. Okay. Like which is you go into this book knowing that Frederick Bachmann has great characterizations has

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like these I don't even know like he has these whimsical not whimsical but like he has these enchanting kind of stories um that make you really fall in love

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with the characters along the way. you will fall in love with hockey if you read this book. Which is like so something that you could have said to me

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and I would have been like I'm gonna take that as a challenge. I feel like like I'm gonna read this book and I'm not going to care about hockey. Um and I

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would be proven wrong. So I hope I hope you're proven wrong and you care about hockey by the end of this book because you're going to go read it because I

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told you to. So yeah. Um, it was so good that I from the 10th page, uh, put down

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my ebook version and went out and bought the physical book, which is what I have now. Um, and I found it in a secondhand store. And like when I found it on the

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shelf, I like almost cried cuz I pulled it off and it was $8. $8, hardly even used. Yo, I freaked out. I

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This This book is so good. I started highlighting on page six and did not stop until the very last page.

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Yeah. Yeah. Um I guess now is a good time for me to bring out that little that little list since we're talking about page numbers. So I

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made a list of all the pages that I cried at. Um but I only started the list at page 225. So I actually went back and

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looked at all the lines that made me cry originally and cried again at those pages. So anytime I cried that was pre

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page 225 know that I cried twice. There was a double up. Okay. So I cried at page 225 221.

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Chapter 21. The entirety of chapter 21.

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Um, page 86, 78, 11, 228, 230, 232, 233,

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246, 317. And that was for the exact same quote that was repeated on page 249

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and 317. Page 398, page 350, page 353, 362, 370, 380, and 404.

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Holy.

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I have not cried at a book. A a at a book this much. B more than once in a book. I don't think.

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The last time I cried reading a book, do you want to know what it was? I was reading Seekers. Seekers, the bear version of Warrior Cats. I was in the

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fifth grade camping, crying about bears. This book made me cry so many times that I had to

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start a list. I had to note down how many times I cried. And it's funny.

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Insane because I don't actually think I don't think I cried in a way that I

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took note of it. But looking at the stuff I'm I've highlighted from this book,

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if I cry in this episode, like talking about this, like I don't know how I'm going to make it through this because I this book made me so emotional. Yeah.

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And I cannot even I'm literally on the verge of tears right now. Like thinking about it, just thinking about it, just looking at the things that I've highlighted.

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I I can't even put into words how much this book means to me. And like

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there are books in my relatively short lifespan that and I read a lot that have so thoroughly emotionally devastated me.

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I could probably list them on one hand actually and I'm going to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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Because there is exactly one one book that has managed to make me feel like this and that is Flowers for Aldron. M

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that is the one book that you could not pay me to read again because of how emotionally it like how

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severely it devastated me. I will say the distinction with Beartown. Beartown I would read over and over and over and over again. Yeah.

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Flowers Aldronon is genuinely heartbreaking to read.

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Yeah. This is like you said like the it hurts so good.

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Hurts so good. Whereas Flowers for Aan was just straight up pain. Just pain.

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Just pain. Just that's the things that I've highlighted, bro. Oh my god.

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I can't I I like actually can't look at some of the things that I've highlighted because I know that I'll cry. And that's um like looking at my list.

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How are you going to record how to get through this episode?

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I'm looking I'm looking at my list and I um I didn't write any notes besides what character um I was crying in relation

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to. Okay. Um, one of them though for page 246 and 317 that was the one that there was a shared quote and it was um

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Maya saying to her dad um he asked her what he can do for her and she just says love me. Oh my god.

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And genuinely like I like and it's like me saying it like doesn't do it justice because the way that it is like written

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in the book is like heartbreaking for me to even think about. Um, and it's just like there are characters in here that

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like from the beginning of this book I was like, I hate you. I hate you so much. And then by the end of the book, I was crying about like Tails and Bobo.

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Yeah. Two of my last two of my last cries in the book were about Tales and Bobo. I started off being like, I hope Bobo's the one who dies.

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And then like somewhere somewhere like halfway through the book, I was like, that's my kid. That's my kid now. That's my child.

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Yeah, that's my child. Um, I yeah, I just Yeah, I

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coming into it from a hockey background, I know I knew almost right away Kevin was going to be the one involved in Yeah. this.

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Yes. Yeah. I knew from a writing background that Kevin would be the one involved in this, but Kevin would be involved. As the story

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progressed, there was a lot of buildup around the gun, the shotgun.

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Yes. But I was really curious to find out if it would be Anna or Maya who shot

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him. Yes. Because listen,

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on the list of characters that impacted me in a way that I cannot ever

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fully put into words, by the end of the book, I Me and Anna were the same person.

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Like, yeah, we were. Yeah, that's my best friend, too, man. That's our best friend. That's our best friend.

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Yeah, cuz Oh my god. Like I, you know, I can't even Wow. I can't even talk about it, which is stupid for a

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podcast. Like Yeah, we we haven't even gotten into like the content really of this cuz you you brought up the gun and I was like,

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"Oh, wait. The the plot of this book. We haven't even touched on it cuz it's it's kind of scary to like the nitty-gritty of it." The second I

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poke that metaphorical bear, um, I'm going to start getting emotional. As soon as you poke Bear Town.

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Soon as you poke Bear Town. Um, but I guess like to get it to get it out of the gate. Yeah.

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The the incident with the the shotgun involves Maya and um, Kevin. Yeah.

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Um, so like if you didn't heed the spoiler warning, too bad. That sucks. Um, but basically

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after Maya is assaulted by Kevin, um, she kind of ve like very much towards the end devises this plan to take the

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shotgun out with her. Um, Anna's shotgun that is in her basement and belongs to her father to take it and to like

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basically hide out in the bushes while Kevin is doing like a regular run around the track kind of thing. Um, and like jump out and get him.

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24 minutes, 49 seconds

Yeah. um up until the very last moment.

24:53

24 minutes, 53 seconds

It's it's kind of like you don't know if she's gonna shoot him.

24:58

24 minutes, 58 seconds

There's this wording around it that is um she keeps saying, "I only need one bullet. Uh I know I don't need two. Even though this gun can hold two bullets, I

25:06

25 minutes, 6 seconds

don't need one. Someone's going to die today. It's either me or him." So, you don't really fully know what she's going to do. The implication is obviously she's going out with a gun, so someone's

25:13

25 minutes, 13 seconds

going to get shot. Um, and her her final act, what she finally does in the end is so was so therapeutic to me.

25:23

25 minutes, 23 seconds

Well, I think especially with the starting out the story with, you know, that that trigger gets pulled. Yes.

25:30

25 minutes, 30 seconds

And I don't think like it didn't occur to me for it to end the way it did. And the way it ends is she puts the gun to

25:38

25 minutes, 38 seconds

his head, pulls the trigger, and it doesn't fire because there's no bullet in it. And she drops the bullet in front of him.

25:46

25 minutes, 46 seconds

Yeah.

25:47

25 minutes, 47 seconds

To like show him that she could have done it. Yeah.

25:49

25 minutes, 49 seconds

Um and the reason is because she wants to make him just as scared of being alone outside in the dark as she is now for the rest of her life.

25:57

25 minutes, 57 seconds

Yeah. Um, which is it's so I'm literally getting chills like talking about this because and then well

26:03

26 minutes, 3 seconds

and then this is interplaced with 10 years in the future.

26:10

26 minutes, 10 seconds

Yo, they see each other in a parking lot. He is married with a child on the way.

26:18

26 minutes, 18 seconds

She's a famous musician and they lock eyes across the parking lot and it and she has very minimal reactions to it.

26:27

26 minutes, 27 seconds

Yeah.

26:27

26 minutes, 27 seconds

Like there's pain there. There's like suffering, but she's pretty much over it. Like she's she's managed it. Mhm.

26:34

26 minutes, 34 seconds

He locks eyes with her instantly terrified. Has to explain to his wife Yeah.

26:41

26 minutes, 41 seconds

the why he's suddenly like pale and looks like he's about to pass out. The line I think that was said in the book

26:48

26 minutes, 48 seconds

was he tells her everything. Like he tells his wife everything. And I was like that is so like the power that Maya

26:57

26 minutes, 57 seconds

has over him by simply existing at this point is so beautiful cuz she can just look at him and he will confess to the worst thing he's done in his life to the

27:06

27 minutes, 6 seconds

one person like that is with him now. And it's like it's it's not very clear if she knows about the his wife knows about this or not obviously. But

27:14

27 minutes, 14 seconds

it from the way that it's read, I kind of interpreted it as this is the first time he's telling her about it. Yeah.

27:20

27 minutes, 20 seconds

Um like seeing Maya prompted him the fear in him so strongly that he had to tell his wife then

27:28

27 minutes, 28 seconds

which is so crazy because along with um like that there's the there's a line I'm trying to find it because it's like it's

27:36

27 minutes, 36 seconds

so good. Um, but the narrator kind of implies that if Maya wanted to, she could step up and tell his wife

27:44

27 minutes, 44 seconds

everything if she wanted to. Um, she could ruin his life. And she doesn't. She just walks away.

27:51

27 minutes, 51 seconds

And Kevin is the one who is so terrified, so afraid that he has to do it himself.

27:55

27 minutes, 55 seconds

He will do it himself. And it's it's so this ending is like so cathartic and it's so amazing. I just like

28:04

28 minutes, 4 seconds

and what I think is really interesting here and this is I mean a big part of this Kevin and this is sort of a driving

28:12

28 minutes, 12 seconds

factor and an underlying you know theme of this Kevin is the star player of this junior team.

28:17

28 minutes, 17 seconds

He's really really good. It's expected that he's going to get drafted or he's at least going to play highlevel hockey

28:27

28 minutes, 27 seconds

10 years in the future. When describing his wife, the narrator points out that there is a hockey rink that Maya is playing at.

28:39

28 minutes, 39 seconds

Yeah, that's where the concert that's the concert venue is a hockey rink. The wife doesn't even look at it because hockey

28:47

28 minutes, 47 seconds

is not a part of her life. And in that one sentence, it is implied that Kevin doesn't ever leave the [ __ ] junior level.

28:57

28 minutes, 57 seconds

So good. It's so good.

29:00

29 minutes

He never makes it to that to that level of hockey that this like that his life essentially was already ruined. Yeah.

29:08

29 minutes, 8 seconds

It's like, bro, bro, like it's so well crafted and and there's so

29:15

29 minutes, 15 seconds

many like interwoven parts that it's it is hard to summarize. Um, but I think, you know, the humanity of

29:24

29 minutes, 24 seconds

it all is really like such a powerful factor and and you know, it's humanity and it's hockey. Like, what more do you want?

29:34

29 minutes, 34 seconds

I'm reading the the line here where it introduces um his wife and it says, "In 10 years time, a 25-year-old woman in a

29:43

29 minutes, 43 seconds

big city far away from here will walk across a parking lot outside a shopping center. There will be an ice rink right next to it, but she won't even look at

29:50

29 minutes, 50 seconds

it because it doesn't belong in her life. Before she gets in her car, she will cast a glance across the roof at her husband. He will put the bags of

29:57

29 minutes, 57 seconds

shopping in the trunk and laugh when he catches her eye. He won't look at the rink either. Isn't interested.

30:04

30 minutes, 4 seconds

Crazy work. Crazy work. Because when I read that the first time, I didn't read it right. And I thought it was about Maya. Me too. And I thought it was about

30:12

30 minutes, 12 seconds

Maya. And then I went back and you just said, "And I think that's intentional." And I was like, Yo,

30:20

30 minutes, 20 seconds

so sorry. I did the what I did there was the pure cinema. I was doing the pure cinema thing, but edit and clear. Put that on screen. You can save that one

30:29

30 minutes, 29 seconds

for me. I'll do for our audio listeners. Good luck. Good luck. Figure it out.

30:33

30 minutes, 33 seconds

Um, Google it. I don't know what to tell you.

30:35

30 minutes, 35 seconds

Just look at pure cinema meme and you'll see you'll see exactly what I'm doing, which is just putting my hands up. But like, it's so it's so peak.

30:43

30 minutes, 43 seconds

It's so peak. I I got I can't um I can't say that there's you know this idea of

30:52

30 minutes, 52 seconds

conformity and belonging and how conformity and belonging is such a fine line to walk

30:59

30 minutes, 59 seconds

and there's so much nuance involved in that. You know, you have like Kevin and Benji being inseparable and then, you

31:07

31 minutes, 7 seconds

know, Kevin commits this horrible act and Benji Benji ditches him because he's like, "I'm not going to I am not going

31:15

31 minutes, 15 seconds

to support you through this." Um, and you know, the whole time like Benji is hiding a secret of his own that he is

31:22

31 minutes, 22 seconds

he's gay, but he's playing highlevel hockey.

31:28

31 minutes, 28 seconds

You know, I'm not going to go into the nuances of that whole section of that because

31:35

31 minutes, 35 seconds

I mean other things have done it more recently. Um but like

31:43

31 minutes, 43 seconds

there's um Amat and his mother and there's this sort of you know tension of what does it mean to be an immigrant in

31:53

31 minutes, 53 seconds

this society and this I mean it's interesting because I it didn't clock to me originally that

32:02

32 minutes, 2 seconds

this was set in Sweden that this was a Swedish novel.

32:05

32 minutes, 5 seconds

What um what part of What? Actually, cuz the first the first like chapters are like I didn't do any research on the author or anything.

32:14

32 minutes, 14 seconds

Okay. Yeah, sure.

32:15

32 minutes, 15 seconds

So, the the city right outside is called the head and her you know, actually this is

32:23

32 minutes, 23 seconds

stupid cuz I I don't I don't you're not crazy stuff.

32:26

32 minutes, 26 seconds

This is stupid because I'm like I'm like about to say all the things that prove to me that this is Sweden and it's that her last name is Anderson with two S's.

32:32

32 minutes, 32 seconds

So, like that could be anyone. That's that's like, you know, like it's not necessarily because there are like so much people so many people like in North America with Swedish ancestry.

32:42

32 minutes, 42 seconds

Yeah. I'm I'm Swedish. I've been to Sweden. I've been to small towns in Sweden. Not quite as north as this. Immediately this is Sweden.

32:50

32 minutes, 50 seconds

Okay.

32:50

32 minutes, 50 seconds

Immediately to me, I understand uh now that I'm looking at it that there is not a lot of context clues to the outside viewer that this is in Sweden. I don't

32:58

32 minutes, 58 seconds

think they say Sweden in this. They at one point I think say Stockholm, which which is when I finally started to cash on.

33:07

33 minutes, 7 seconds

They say Canada in this book more than they say Sweden, which is where they do say Canada a lot. Which is why I actually initially assumed this was small town United States.

33:16

33 minutes, 16 seconds

Oh, that's funny.

33:18

33 minutes, 18 seconds

That's why I initially assumed that because I was like, "Okay, you're othering Canada, so this is not small town Canada." Although it could be. It could be. It very well could be.

33:27

33 minutes, 27 seconds

Yeah. the um the the Swedish version of this book, the title like isn't changed in translation, so it's Bernstad, which

33:34

33 minutes, 34 seconds

is Bear Town. Um and in the in the quote section, I had been like trolling through some of the quote to see like if

33:42

33 minutes, 42 seconds

there are any interesting ones that I had for some reason missed, and one of them quoted it as um Bjornstad. And I looked at it and I was like, "What?

33:51

33 minutes, 51 seconds

Where? Huh? What? Oh yeah. What are we doing?" Yeah. Where are we? Where am I? Yeah, Bejornstad.

33:58

33 minutes, 58 seconds

Bejorn's dad.

34:00

34 minutes

Um, anyway, I Yeah, I'm sorry. I was flipping through to find a specific quote and now I can't remember. It was

34:07

34 minutes, 7 seconds

um [ __ ] it was so good. Half of this Half of this is just going to be me flipping through my book for quotes that I should

34:16

34 minutes, 16 seconds

have written down because in this book I have annotated just about every line. So finding a quote is like impossible cuz I

34:24

34 minutes, 24 seconds

have like something on every single line. Um I'll get to it eventually.

34:28

34 minutes, 28 seconds

Hopefully we won't be completely off topic by the time I get there. it. Uh, I think the environment it it kind of like

34:35

34 minutes, 35 seconds

I mean the fact that I was even able to misinterpret that I think just sort of goes to show how actually poignant this

34:43

34 minutes, 43 seconds

book really is and the topic of the book really is because you know across the Atlantic Ocean

34:51

34 minutes, 51 seconds

the environment the principles the qualities the trials the tribulations

35:00

35 minutes

the the highs the lows of a small town that is, you know, a small hockey town

35:08

35 minutes, 8 seconds

essentially. Um, is so similar, so almost identical across countries.

35:17

35 minutes, 17 seconds

Um, a small town is a small town in American, but I'm I'm about to make myself upset

35:28

35 minutes, 28 seconds

looking if I keep like flipping through this book. So, like I'm It was really It was really good, though.

35:34

35 minutes, 34 seconds

Yeah. Scrolling scrolling through the my scrolling through this book. Did I say that?

35:38

35 minutes, 38 seconds

No, I I was about to say scrolling through the highlights because I've got the ebook. Scrolling through the things that I've highlighted is is making me emotional as well. And I said this

35:45

35 minutes, 45 seconds

earlier. Um but I think, you know, the very first thing that I highlighted was

35:53

35 minutes, 53 seconds

small towns need a head start if they're going to have any chance in in the world. And this sort of mentality of

36:00

36 minutes

being a hardworking, economically disadvantaged,

36:07

36 minutes, 7 seconds

isolated underdog is such a powerful visual and it's so

36:17

36 minutes, 17 seconds

complex and yet so simple. And I think that's really it's a it's so representative of what this book is and

36:24

36 minutes, 24 seconds

what this book does. And it's this like, you know, small fish, big pond. Yeah.

36:31

36 minutes, 31 seconds

Kind of mentality that is just incredible to analyze in the way that this this book does.

36:40

36 minutes, 40 seconds

Um, I have my quote here. Go for it.

36:46

36 minutes, 46 seconds

But it's going to send us off off the rails a little bit. There are no rails.

36:50

36 minutes, 50 seconds

This is from page 11. um one of the ones that I did cry at and it's uh Fatima uh

36:57

36 minutes, 57 seconds

Amat's mother and she says she well she thinks she only understood snippets of the language back then and the fact that

37:04

37 minutes, 4 seconds

Amat could skate when he could barely walk was a divine mystery to her. Many years have passed since then and she still hasn't gotten used to the cold in

37:12

37 minutes, 12 seconds

Beartown. But she has learned to love the town for what it is, and she will never find anything in her life more unfathomable than the fact that the boy

37:20

37 minutes, 20 seconds

she gave birth to in a place that has never seen snow was born to play a sport on the ice. I highlighted the exact same thing.

37:28

37 minutes, 28 seconds

Yo, balling on the sky train. Yeah. Balling and not basketball balling.

37:35

37 minutes, 35 seconds

My mouth dropped open.

37:38

37 minutes, 38 seconds

Yo, and I was See, that's one of the quotes I I read in the rink. Yeah,

37:45

37 minutes, 45 seconds

I damn near threw my Kindle on the floor.

37:47

37 minutes, 47 seconds

You're gonna say I nearly threw up, which like is Yeah, actually, you know what? I almost did that, too. I'm so emotional. I want to throw up.

37:54

37 minutes, 54 seconds

Like some of the some of the quotes in this book did have me feeling like that.

37:58

37 minutes, 58 seconds

And it's like, yo, Frederick, you will be hearing from my therapist. I will send you an invoice

38:07

38 minutes, 7 seconds

for the bill cuz emotional damages. emotional damages from like just not even this isn't even

38:14

38 minutes, 14 seconds

like a super emotional line. It was just pros so good. It got me it got me tearing up like I just I don't even

38:23

38 minutes, 23 seconds

um the translation of and I don't know again how much this is the nuance of this is

38:31

38 minutes, 31 seconds

included in the original line but the slogan of Beartown Beartown leaves you wanting more. The

38:39

38 minutes, 39 seconds

wind and snow took a few years to wipe out the word more. So, it's bear the sign reads Beartown leads you wanting.

38:46

38 minutes, 46 seconds

And actually, I'm going to pull us back onto the original rails here of um you know, the small town of it all

38:53

38 minutes, 53 seconds

in that like there's this overarching sense of being unfulfilled. every single character in this is kind of left wanting more.

39:03

39 minutes, 3 seconds

Mhm.

39:04

39 minutes, 4 seconds

And they the main goal for them is

39:13

39 minutes, 13 seconds

to like, you know, for the kids it's to get out of the small town. Yeah.

39:18

39 minutes, 18 seconds

And for the adults it's to like find some kind of purpose that doesn't make them feel like they're sort of walking in circles.

39:26

39 minutes, 26 seconds

Yeah.

39:27

39 minutes, 27 seconds

And the purpose that a lot of these adults find is in the hockey team and the way the

39:34

39 minutes, 34 seconds

hockey team is performing I

39:41

39 minutes, 41 seconds

cannot I mean look look there are quite a few quotes in this

39:50

39 minutes, 50 seconds

book that really I think spoke to like why I love hockey so much.

39:59

39 minutes, 59 seconds

Um, and the the way that hockey slides into this

40:06

40 minutes, 6 seconds

purpose, the sense of purpose for this small town, and the way it gives them a a hope to become something better, and

40:16

40 minutes, 16 seconds

the way all of that simultaneously gets undercut, but also reaffirmed, you know, like hockey still is such a big part of

40:25

40 minutes, 25 seconds

this book at the end, but like the actions of the individual ual wind up

40:32

40 minutes, 32 seconds

destroying what the collective is trying to build.

40:44

40 minutes, 44 seconds

There's a sorry say you could we could make an entire episode on the characters themselves, the characters

40:52

40 minutes, 52 seconds

relationships, but you could make 40 episodes on the characters relationship with Hockey in this town. Mhm.

40:58

40 minutes, 58 seconds

It's so important to all of these characters, hockey, even the people that don't like hockey in this town. Even the

41:07

41 minutes, 7 seconds

people that don't want to really care, like you look at like Maya who has these kind of mixed feelings. She's grown up around it. She doesn't care too much for

41:15

41 minutes, 15 seconds

it. Um but like her dad loves it, so she kind of by extension loves it. Um and it's like this it's you can't escape it in this town.

41:27

41 minutes, 27 seconds

um like for better or for worse, you can't escape hockey and everybody has their own reasons for loving it, which I think is so like incredible because you

41:36

41 minutes, 36 seconds

do look at some of these characters and their main motivation for loving it is like to win or like because their job hinges on it or because their livelihood hinges on it or like they want fame or

41:45

41 minutes, 45 seconds

something like that, but there's a lot of characters that just do it for the love of the game, do it because they can't not do it. Like they just love it

41:52

41 minutes, 52 seconds

beyond reason. And it's like there's this multitude of ways that these characters love hockey um and like

42:00

42 minutes

interact with it, not as like a sport, but as like a concept. I feel like more as a way of being.

42:07

42 minutes, 7 seconds

Yeah. It's it's the way of life in this in this small town, which like it's the reason to live for a lot of them.

42:14

42 minutes, 14 seconds

It keeps them it keeps them going. It keeps them afloat. And it's like from the get-go, you know, like you see

42:22

42 minutes, 22 seconds

how important hockey is obviously in this town. Like it's the most important thing. And I think that's like one of the opening lines of the book. You hang on. Let me see here. Oh yeah, here.

42:34

42 minutes, 34 seconds

It's Friday in early March in Beartown.

42:36

42 minutes, 36 seconds

Nothing has happened yet. Everyone is waiting. Tomorrow, the Beartown Ice Hockey Club's junior team is playing in the semi-final of the biggest youth

42:43

42 minutes, 43 seconds

tournament in the country. How important can something like that be? In most places, not so important, of course, but Beartown isn't most places. You know,

42:53

42 minutes, 53 seconds

you know it's about hockey. You can't not know this book is about hockey.

42:59

42 minutes, 59 seconds

You don't know going into it just how important it is. It's everything to these characters and it will be

43:06

43 minutes, 6 seconds

everything to you. So, I'm just like a salesman. I'm literally just like a salesman. I read this book. Read this book. You will love hockey at the end of

43:13

43 minutes, 13 seconds

it or you won't. You will care about it though. That's the guarantee. Um, it's just like

43:21

43 minutes, 21 seconds

I don't there there's this genre of books and well I guess like generally media that I'm obsessed with, which is like the

43:29

43 minutes, 29 seconds

obsessed artist um kind of like trope, I guess you could call it, genre, whatever. Um, this book is like an

43:36

43 minutes, 36 seconds

obsessed town. It this is a horde of obsessed artists. It's incredible.

43:43

43 minutes, 43 seconds

Everyone in this town needs hockey. It is their lifeblood and it is amazing.

43:48

43 minutes, 48 seconds

It almost borders on like a cultlike following. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah.

43:53

43 minutes, 53 seconds

Um but it's like you're in there with them, you know? You are along the ride like along for the ride. You are in that cult. You are getting branded. You don't care, you know.

44:04

44 minutes, 4 seconds

Yeah. Sorry. Anyway, we like have kind of We bounced around a little bit.

44:09

44 minutes, 9 seconds

We're bouncing around. We We're bouncing around a little bit. Um Um, okay. So, what rabbit hole to go down next?

44:16

44 minutes, 16 seconds

This this this conjunction of like highlighted sections I think really speaks to speaks to me. Yeah.

44:22

44 minutes, 22 seconds

Just out of the out of the out of the barn like this speaks to me.

44:28

44 minutes, 28 seconds

Um, we devote ourselves to sports because they remind us of how small we are just as much as they make us bigger.

44:37

44 minutes, 37 seconds

And this second quote is right next to it. Um, it's a couple pages in the actual book. It's a couple pages further

44:44

44 minutes, 44 seconds

on, but I've highlighted them right next to each other. You don't need to understand every aspect of the ice to love it. And you don't have to love the town to feel proud of it.

44:56

44 minutes, 56 seconds

Trying not to cry. Genuinely trying not to cry. Um, yeah.

45:01

45 minutes, 1 second

The energy of this book, I mean, the energy of the sport itself and like, you know, having to admit that there are

45:08

45 minutes, 8 seconds

faults with it. Yeah, even though I mean it's these people's like reason to live, but also having to

45:17

45 minutes, 17 seconds

then admit that it's not the game itself, it's the people playing it and it's the culture they've ascribed to it.

45:26

45 minutes, 26 seconds

Um, there's I mean, this is a really hot topic right now. I mean,

45:33

45 minutes, 33 seconds

I'm gonna address the the I was going to say elephant, but I feel like that's a little on the nose. Yeah.

45:40

45 minutes, 40 seconds

Um the elephant of the room of the the heated rivalry of it all. Oh, that's what you're talking about.

45:44

45 minutes, 44 seconds

That's not Oh, what were you thinking? I was going to say I thought you were going for like a serious a serious sitdown chat about the

45:52

45 minutes, 52 seconds

the other elephant in the room, but Oh, the elephant was in reference to the penis. Yo.

46:00

46 minutes

Okay. Okay. So, gravely misunderstood where this was going.

46:05

46 minutes, 5 seconds

Um, I haven't watched Heated Rivalry. I want to make it so clear. Anything that you say I will not I will not.

46:10

46 minutes, 10 seconds

Well, I'm not gonna talk about Heated Robbery. I was going to say like because of that there has been a bigger Well, there's always been this ongoing

46:16

46 minutes, 16 seconds

conversation, but I mean um more in the the limelight, this conversation about

46:24

46 minutes, 24 seconds

inclusion in hockey and Anna, my queen, my close personal friend. a close personal friend.

46:31

46 minutes, 31 seconds

She becomes sort of a subject of this conversation later on. Um I mean Benji in a major way does as well,

46:40

46 minutes, 40 seconds

but Anna makes some some certain comments that really I mean um

46:47

46 minutes, 47 seconds

yeah. Can we talk about women in this book?

46:49

46 minutes, 49 seconds

Yeah, let's let's talk about women in this book because this was one of this is one of the major topics that I was like I'm I want to get to it. Um when is an appropriate time to get to it because it's going to it's going to be a while.

46:58

46 minutes, 58 seconds

Uh we're gonna be in this soup for a bit. There are two specific quotes.

47:03

47 minutes, 3 seconds

Um one of them is about Anna.

47:07

47 minutes, 7 seconds

Uh when she got a bit older, she wanted to be a sports commentator on television. Then high school started and she learned that girls were much more were more than welcome to like sports in Beartown, just not the way that she did.

47:18

47 minutes, 18 seconds

Not that much. Not to the point where she would lecture the boys about rules and tactics. Teenage girls were primarily supposed to be interested in hockey players, not hockey.

47:29

47 minutes, 29 seconds

I don't know if you've highlighted the line later in the book, but there's another one that's like if you Yeah, that's the next one. Here go. That's the next one.

47:37

47 minutes, 37 seconds

Here it comes. And so this is the the second quote.

47:41

47 minutes, 41 seconds

Girls aren't allowed to like hockey even just a little bit in Beartown. Ideally, they shouldn't like it at all because if you like the sport, you must be a lesbian. And if you like the players,

47:49

47 minutes, 49 seconds

you're a [ __ ] Frederick, you will be hearing from me.

47:56

47 minutes, 56 seconds

Mark my words, Frederick. A long winded email is coming your way. Like, it's

48:03

48 minutes, 3 seconds

just so like and this is a conversation um I mean to steer this away from

48:12

48 minutes, 12 seconds

the the novel and sort of focus more on the broader theme of it all. Yeah.

48:16

48 minutes, 16 seconds

This is a conversation that I obviously have a lot.

48:20

48 minutes, 20 seconds

Yeah. I hate the term puck bunny with a passion

48:28

48 minutes, 28 seconds

because I think that it's not a problem if women like hockey players. If you want to [ __ ] a hockey player, cool.

48:36

48 minutes, 36 seconds

Whatever. If that's what you're into, great. Why are we shaming women for their sexual preferences?

48:43

48 minutes, 43 seconds

And then secondly, why are we then ascribing Puck Bunny to every female fan? That's ridiculous.

48:52

48 minutes, 52 seconds

Yeah.

48:53

48 minutes, 53 seconds

You know, like it's a it's the double-edged sword because, you know, if you like the sport, you're a lesbian. If

49:00

49 minutes

you like the players, you're a [ __ ] And there's no there's no middle ground first of all because it's women have

49:08

49 minutes, 8 seconds

been in that context boiled down entirely to sexual preference

49:15

49 minutes, 15 seconds

and then you shame them for that sexual pro proclivity or preference whether it

49:21

49 minutes, 21 seconds

exists or not. With men, we don't throw sex into everything that they like.

49:27

49 minutes, 27 seconds

We're not like, "Oh, you're a big fan of David Beckham. You wear his jersey around all the time. Obviously, you want

49:35

49 minutes, 35 seconds

to [ __ ] him." That's not how we operate with men. In fact, it's the opposite. You know, if

49:43

49 minutes, 43 seconds

gay men like sports, they're considered, you know, that's like a very masculine thing for them to do. That's almost like it's considered very masculine. It's

49:51

49 minutes, 51 seconds

considered like um unstereypical or or rare for a They're breaking barriers by by sports as a gay

49:59

49 minutes, 59 seconds

man. Like that's the it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And it's I think so much of this book really

50:06

50 minutes, 6 seconds

gets into the nitty-gritty of hockey culture and that the the little like biases and

50:13

50 minutes, 13 seconds

assumptions that we make that just destroys

50:20

50 minutes, 20 seconds

a lot of the positive aspects of the sport. Because why are we wanting to exclude people

50:28

50 minutes, 28 seconds

from something that is so communal, that is so emotional, that is so powerful,

50:35

50 minutes, 35 seconds

that is so important to so many people. Why are we encouraging this level of animosity off ice?

50:47

50 minutes, 47 seconds

Like what is that?

50:50

50 minutes, 50 seconds

Anyway, sorry I have nothing to add to that because I'm not a part of like hockey culture, but I can add about the novel what I think about it. Um,

50:59

50 minutes, 59 seconds

obviously in the novel there is this profound unconditional like love for hockey that all of the characters kind

51:07

51 minutes, 7 seconds

of exhibit. Um, but it's not completely blind love. There is this recogniz There's this recognition,

51:16

51 minutes, 16 seconds

sorry, that hockey is this imperfect thing. It's an imperfect culture. It has some imperfect values. There are some

51:25

51 minutes, 25 seconds

imperfections to it and there are some ugly sides to it and all of the residents of Beartown are obviously

51:32

51 minutes, 32 seconds

aware of it. Um, but there is this kind of undergoing theme in the novel of silence, what we choose to ignore and

51:40

51 minutes, 40 seconds

what we choose to speak up against. Um, and so there's a lot of tragic tragic moments in the book where you see these

51:50

51 minutes, 50 seconds

characters recognizing that there is an evil present. Like there is something bad that is happening, but it's

51:57

51 minutes, 57 seconds

happening in regards to hockey and they don't want to jeopardize hockey and they don't want to jeopardize the team and so they choose silence over what is right.

52:05

52 minutes, 5 seconds

And it's like this terrible experience to read because it's like they are

52:13

52 minutes, 13 seconds

humans recognizing there is something bad happening and choosing to not speak about it. And it's like having to watch that is like torture. Having to read

52:21

52 minutes, 21 seconds

about it is like torture. Um but there is this undeniable fact that there is a

52:29

52 minutes, 29 seconds

problem with the culture of hockey and sports. Obviously like this extends to like all sports in general. Um, but on the ice, off the ice, there are problems

52:38

52 minutes, 38 seconds

with these sports and the culture surrounding them. And obviously, like I'm no authority over any of this, but

52:46

52 minutes, 46 seconds

it is like abundantly clear. This this novel makes it abundantly clear that hockey is not a perfect sport. And it's not it's not out to make it a perfect sport.

52:54

52 minutes, 54 seconds

You aren't supposed to see it the way that some of these towns people see it as like a perfect thing because it's not.

53:01

53 minutes, 1 second

But I do really like the treatment it gets. I think there's a lot of um attribution and it's very easy to fall into this like it's hockeyy's fault.

53:10

53 minutes, 10 seconds

It's the culture that's created by hockey. Um but there's a really amazing exchange that happens sort of later on with the bar owner Ramona.

53:20

53 minutes, 20 seconds

And I love her. I love her.

53:23

53 minutes, 23 seconds

I would give her whatever she wants forever.

53:26

53 minutes, 26 seconds

Um, she says she she yells at somebody. I think she

53:34

53 minutes, 34 seconds

yells at um at uh how did you pronounce it? Sunni. Sunni. Soon.

53:40

53 minutes, 40 seconds

I I said soon, but I could be actually entirely wrong. I'm going to look it up now just for Anyway, so she's yelling at at him. This

53:47

53 minutes, 47 seconds

is the the coach or the old This is the old A team coach.

53:52

53 minutes, 52 seconds

Mhm. And she goes, "Keep your trap shut when I'm talking. [ __ ] men, you're the problem.

54:00

54 minutes

Religion doesn't fight. Guns don't kill.

54:02

54 minutes, 2 seconds

And you need to be very [ __ ] clear that hockey has never raped anyone." But you know who do fight and kill and rape?

54:10

54 minutes, 10 seconds

Men.

54:12

54 minutes, 12 seconds

And it's it's so powerful, too, because soon I'm looking at it now. It actually does say sunset sun. Well, okay. Sorry. I'm looking. I

54:20

54 minutes, 20 seconds

pulled up the AI overview and I can pull up the actual person saying it here soon.

54:28

54 minutes, 28 seconds

Oh, well, okay. Soon, I guess. Um, if that's wrong, I'm sorry. Criticize us in the comments. It's okay.

54:35

54 minutes, 35 seconds

Um, but he is this incredibly respected figure. I feel like he's well established in the club. He's been teaching um, sorry, teaching coaching

54:44

54 minutes, 44 seconds

the A team. It was I think he's been coaching the A team for like a very long time. long enough that um Peter Anderson was like his

54:52

54 minutes, 52 seconds

people many years ago before he went off to the NHL.

54:55

54 minutes, 55 seconds

And he is like this old guy that people like respect. And here's Ramona sitting

55:02

55 minutes, 2 seconds

here being like shut up. Literally shut up, die. And it's like so good. She

55:09

55 minutes, 9 seconds

doesn't care. Actually doesn't care. I misqued it as well cuz she yells she yells at him and so

55:16

55 minutes, 16 seconds

she goes um fight and kill you know who who do fight and kill and rape and she makes him answer cuz the rest of the

55:23

55 minutes, 23 seconds

quote is soon clears his throat men crazy

55:30

55 minutes, 30 seconds

she makes him answer and he obviously knows knows what she's talking about and Ramona does this this whole like for for

55:38

55 minutes, 38 seconds

a large section of this sort of falling action um you know she's very adamant that it's not the sport it's not the sport it's

55:46

55 minutes, 46 seconds

the men and the fact that it's a male-dominated sport and um there is sort of near the end of the book as well I think is like this sort of

55:54

55 minutes, 54 seconds

counterbalance uh this redemption of the sport itself there is an inaugural girls team being

56:02

56 minutes, 2 seconds

created in Beartown for the very first time and this book ends with and I think this is very very important

56:09

56 minutes, 9 seconds

this book ends with the attribution of the most important hockey star

56:16

56 minutes, 16 seconds

ever to come from Beartown being a little girl learning to skate for the first time.

56:26

56 minutes, 26 seconds

I Okay, look I'm gonna hold your book.

56:34

56 minutes, 34 seconds

I actually that made me I for I 100% cried at that.

56:39

56 minutes, 39 seconds

I cried hard at that because no other author could do this. No other

56:46

56 minutes, 46 seconds

cuz the the the ending being there is like a girls team obviously like this is like we were building up in the background to this for a very long time.

56:56

56 minutes, 56 seconds

Any other author I would have rolled my eyes at. Dude, Frederick, you got me crying. You got me balling my eyes out.

57:02

57 minutes, 2 seconds

Like I I don't even Okay, I I have to I have to read this last the last paragraph of this book.

57:11

57 minutes, 11 seconds

Before you Before you do it, I want the like very important context that this little girl was found because Adri um

57:19

57 minutes, 19 seconds

Benji's sister was going knocking door to door asking if there's any little girls in anyone's houses that are interested in playing hockey. Um and

57:27

57 minutes, 27 seconds

she's been shut down by all these people that are like, "That's ridiculous. we wouldn't do this here. Like, um, yeah, it's a hockey town, but like a girls

57:34

57 minutes, 34 seconds

team. You're out of your mind. And she gets to this house and there's this little four-year-old girl, and she is clearly being abused. She has bru

57:42

57 minutes, 42 seconds

bruises on her body. Um, and Adri doesn't ask about it, but she asks, "Do you want to play? Do you know about hockey?" And the little girl says,

57:51

57 minutes, 51 seconds

"Yes." And she says, "Do you want to play hockey?" And the little girl says, "Yes." And that's the interaction that is like she gets her yes. And then we see this scene with the little girl on the ice.

58:00

58 minutes

This is like a chapter or so later. So, a lot of stuff has been tied up in between and the book ends like this.

58:10

58 minutes, 10 seconds

When the children tumble over the edge out onto the ice, passing that last inch and losing their foothold, the boys at the center circle laugh and help the

58:18

58 minutes, 18 seconds

little things get up again. Try to teach them that there are other ways to stop than just drifting head first into the boards. None of them sees the first

58:25

58 minutes, 25 seconds

skate of the child who's the last one out. She's four years old, a scrawny little kid in gloves that are too big for her with bruises everyone sees but

58:33

58 minutes, 33 seconds

nobody asks about. Her helmet slips down across her eyes, but the look in them is clear enough. Adri come after her, ready

58:41

58 minutes, 41 seconds

to hold the girl up until they realize that there's no need. The four boys at the center circle will build a new A team next season, but that doesn't matter because in 10 years time, it

58:49

58 minutes, 49 seconds

won't be their names that make the people of this town stand taller. And they'll all lie and say they were here and saw it happen. The first skate of

58:57

58 minutes, 57 seconds

the girl who will become the most talented player this club has ever seen.

59:01

59 minutes, 1 second

They'll all say they knew it even then because people recognize the bear around here. Cherry trees always smell of cherry trees. They do that in hockey towns.

59:15

59 minutes, 15 seconds

I Frederick, you will be hearing from me.

59:20

59 minutes, 20 seconds

For the book to have ended this way, to look you in the eyes, to look me in the eyes for you. Punch me in the face the way it did.

59:30

59 minutes, 30 seconds

It was personal.

59:31

59 minutes, 31 seconds

It was personal. This book is very personal to me. Um, but it's so complex. It's so nuanced and

59:37

59 minutes, 37 seconds

I I really like, you know, that it takes so much time and care to show the

59:45

59 minutes, 45 seconds

humanity behind so much of the issues that have been brought up about the sport itself and about what sports can

59:54

59 minutes, 54 seconds

mean to a community. Um, I mean, it really covers like so so much.

:: 00:03

1 hour, 3 seconds

Uh, it really I think the way that it it unpacks masculinity and the way that it unpacks

:: 00:12

1 hour, 12 seconds

um gender in general uh is incredible.

:: 00:18

1 hour, 18 seconds

It's so it's so outright but yet so subtle. Yeah.

:: 00:25

1 hour, 25 seconds

And so many of the things that I've highlighted have a lot to do with that sort of unpacking. Are we like shifting from women to masculinity here or are we

:: 00:35

1 hour, 35 seconds

I think it's just gender and are we are we staying on the gender train the the overall sort of topic you know

:: 00:42

1 hour, 42 seconds

um I'm like I'm like deciding I'm like deciding if I should fill the silence with like a a little a little thing here

:: 00:49

1 hour, 49 seconds

or if I want to let you finish do a little thing because I think I'm going to be Yeah. because I want to talk a little bit well on the topic of femininity um

:: 00:57

1 hour, 57 seconds

and kind of feminism in this town which is like a loose word that I'm going to use feminis feminism um there is a it's more

:: 01:07

1 hour, 1 minute, 7 seconds

of a solidarity I'll say with the women in this town and I want to talk specifically about Janette Adri um Anna

:: 01:15

1 hour, 1 minute, 15 seconds

because these are like three very much side characters who are like tangentially related to characters I would call the main cast like Anna is

:: 01:24

1 hour, 1 minute, 24 seconds

Maya's best friend. Adri is Benji's sister. Um Janette is like just a teacher kind of in the who teaches the

:: 01:31

1 hour, 1 minute, 31 seconds

boys. And the introduction to Janette is that she's getting like harassed by the boys in her class. And I think a first

:: 01:39

1 hour, 1 minute, 39 seconds

of all Bobo is like up on a table and he calls her I think like Sweet Cheeks or something like that and she gets so sweetheart or something. Yeah. And she

:: 01:46

1 hour, 1 minute, 46 seconds

gets so angry. Um, and then after that there's another scene with her and it's with Benji and Benji is sitting in the principal's office and Janette walks in

:: 01:55

1 hour, 1 minute, 55 seconds

and I I don't remember this scene very well because I was just like so I was like so frustrated during this scene. But she walks in for whatever reason.

:: 02:03

1 hour, 2 minutes, 3 seconds

It's the principal's office. She's already angry. Benji is sitting in a chair cuz he's in trouble. And as she walks in, she starts talking to the

:: 02:11

1 hour, 2 minutes, 11 seconds

principal and she's saying like, "I can't handle it. I can't handle these kids in my class. They are like doing these insufferable things and they're

:: 02:18

1 hour, 2 minutes, 18 seconds

calling me these names and Benji looks at her and he calls her like sweet he calls her sweetheart or something like

:: 02:25

1 hour, 2 minutes, 25 seconds

that in like a demeaning way and she like almost hits him.

:: 02:30

1 hour, 2 minutes, 30 seconds

She literally rears up and almost hits him. And in this moment this is like kind of a passing thing that like you have already seen her be harassed by the

:: 02:38

1 hour, 2 minutes, 38 seconds

boys in the class. Why would Benji be any different? But then later in the book, you get the knowledge that Janette is Adri's best friend. Adri, who is

:: 02:47

1 hour, 2 minutes, 47 seconds

Benji's sister that he like is incredibly close to, he turns to all of his sisters for like um comfort and like

:: 02:55

1 hour, 2 minutes, 55 seconds

when he's having a hard time, he will turn to all of them as his support system. And he knows Janette and Janette knows him. And there is like this

:: 03:04

1 hour, 3 minutes, 4 seconds

profound disrespect that has like occurred in this moment that he later does apologize for and that he does say

:: 03:11

1 hour, 3 minutes, 11 seconds

like, you know, I was in the wrong. I'm sorry. Like it was like a whatever.

:: 03:14

1 hour, 3 minutes, 14 seconds

Going through a hard time, whatever. But it's like that moment was so insane to me cuz what like watching it

:: 03:24

1 hour, 3 minutes, 24 seconds

it's watching it, it's just like to see to see a woman be

:: 03:32

1 hour, 3 minutes, 32 seconds

like harassed in that way already bad enough to know that she is like a close family friend and that this is a child

:: 03:38

1 hour, 3 minutes, 38 seconds

she has seen like grow up who would say that to her bro I would be hitting him too I would be hitting him too but anyway that's like not

:: 03:46

1 hour, 3 minutes, 46 seconds

actually that's a really good sequer into the quote that I was thinking of okay okay um where I think what's really interesting is you know on the topic of

:: 03:55

1 hour, 3 minutes, 55 seconds

like this sort of masculine conformity uh this like desire to be part of a team to be part of something bigger than you are um to be accepted.

:: 04:04

1 hour, 4 minutes, 4 seconds

There is a tangential relationship between the men and the women in this community and there's a lot of

:: 04:12

1 hour, 4 minutes, 12 seconds

underlying information.

:: 04:16

1 hour, 4 minutes, 16 seconds

Um you know this you talked about it earlier this like concept of like knowing that something is wrong, something is

:: 04:25

1 hour, 4 minutes, 25 seconds

um disrespectful and not doing anything about it. Mhm.

:: 04:30

1 hour, 4 minutes, 30 seconds

There's two like highlighted sections about this or a couple highlighted sections about this. Um, but this one is interesting to me.

:: 04:39

1 hour, 4 minutes, 39 seconds

Whether a joke is always a a joke or hold on. Whether a joke is always only a

:: 04:48

1 hour, 4 minutes, 48 seconds

joke, whether that particular one went too far, whether there are different rules inside and outside a locker room, whether it's acceptable to cross the

:: 04:56

1 hour, 4 minutes, 56 seconds

line in order to diffuse tension and get rid of nerves before a game, or if he should have stopped Lars and intervened by saying something to the guys, but he does nothing, just lets them all laugh.

:: 05:05

1 hour, 5 minutes, 5 seconds

He'll think about that when he gets home and looks his girlfriend in the eyes.

:: 05:10

1 hour, 5 minutes, 10 seconds

That that and and it's like it doesn't it doesn't include the joke that is said by Lars, which is rape joke.

:: 05:16

1 hour, 5 minutes, 16 seconds

Insane. Yeah. Insane joke. It it's like this the

:: 05:23

1 hour, 5 minutes, 23 seconds

it's so scary to me how I can like read this and be like I this feels realistic.

:: 05:29

1 hour, 5 minutes, 29 seconds

I've never been in this situation, but this locker room talk and like the emotions that are like kind of going through the and and it's brought up in

:: 05:38

1 hour, 5 minutes, 38 seconds

it that like humor is used as a means to diffuse tension in this situation because all these boys are incredibly, you know, nervous for this game that's coming up that they feel like the weight

:: 05:46

1 hour, 5 minutes, 46 seconds

of the entire town is like on their shoulders. Um, and obviously they're looking for ways to like diffuse the

:: 05:53

1 hour, 5 minutes, 53 seconds

tension and they say this horrible thing that obviously looks terrible after the events that like occur after the like

:: 06:02

1 hour, 6 minutes, 2 seconds

well after I guess this was semi-finals after the semi-finals. um obviously like put into perspect like it's so much

:: 06:09

1 hour, 6 minutes, 9 seconds

worse and it's like it's it's so and it comes and the the yo I'm I'm like

:: 06:18

1 hour, 6 minutes, 18 seconds

sorry hang on I'm tripping over it because I'm about to get to something that I'm like deeply emotional about the way that it comes back to bite Benji in

:: 06:25

1 hour, 6 minutes, 25 seconds

the ass um is like in like so it's so emotional to me

:: 06:33

1 hour, 6 minutes, 33 seconds

because you see Benji at first as kind of this like violent guy. Um because he's an enforcer, you know, he's always

:: 06:41

1 hour, 6 minutes, 41 seconds

getting into fights and whatever and he's like doing all this stuff. He's kind of framed as this like violent guy.

:: 06:46

1 hour, 6 minutes, 46 seconds

And then you see later that the reason why he's like putting on this I guess kind of like facade of like strength and

:: 06:55

1 hour, 6 minutes, 55 seconds

everything like that is because he's obviously covering up his secret which is that he's gay and he doesn't want anyone on the team to know because obviously you can't be gay on a hockey

:: 07:02

1 hour, 7 minutes, 2 seconds

team in a small town. Nobody's going to respect you and you you probably won't be on that team anymore if everyone knows that. And it's like he is aware of

:: 07:10

1 hour, 7 minutes, 10 seconds

that and he has to hide this. So he has to conform to these kind of like social norms of telling these jokes in the bus

:: 07:17

1 hour, 7 minutes, 17 seconds

and things like that and I guess calling your teacher horrible names even though you know her. Um and it's like it's

:: 07:26

1 hour, 7 minutes, 26 seconds

brought back up at the end um when David has to confront David um the coach who has known these boys since they were

:: 07:33

1 hour, 7 minutes, 33 seconds

very young feels like a father to most of them. he stumbles upon um Benji

:: 07:40

1 hour, 7 minutes, 40 seconds

kissing another boy. And the the presentation of this in the book is insane because there is a line that says

:: 07:48

1 hour, 7 minutes, 48 seconds

and it ends the chapter with this I'm pretty sure that says David felt disgusted. He felt disgusted and I you you can go

:: 07:56

1 hour, 7 minutes, 56 seconds

I actually have it I have it pulled up and um I'm I don't know if this is the same one you're thinking of because it's said twice. There is one

:: 08:04

1 hour, 8 minutes, 4 seconds

line that is um like blank blank period him saying he saw this and felt disgusted and that

:: 08:12

1 hour, 8 minutes, 12 seconds

is meant to kind of be like this misdirect and be like oh my god David is homophobic like that is meant to kind of make you feel this way and be like oh my

:: 08:20

1 hour, 8 minutes, 20 seconds

god he's disgusted by seeing like this boy that he knew like and watch grow up kissing another boy oh my god like this is terrible because there's

:: 08:29

1 hour, 8 minutes, 29 seconds

been this whole setup the whole time of how important David is in these boys' lives um and to see him be disgusted um

:: 08:36

1 hour, 8 minutes, 36 seconds

by one of the boys is like this shocking moment for the reader. But then the line comes back a couple of chapters later and I think that's what you have highlighted because I saw you had a

:: 08:45

1 hour, 8 minutes, 45 seconds

block highlighted. comes back a few chapters later and obviously there is this reversal of expectations here with this which you'll

:: 08:53

1 hour, 8 minutes, 53 seconds

obviously read with the quote but it's this like such it's just such like a sad moment like

:: 09:01

1 hour, 9 minutes, 1 second

come to realization moment because David is reflecting on the fact that he also participated in these jokes which were sometimes at the expense of gay people

:: 09:09

1 hour, 9 minutes, 9 seconds

in the bus which he didn't even know was applicable to someone in the bus. He was making these jokes at the expense of

:: 09:15

1 hour, 9 minutes, 15 seconds

someone that was covering up this secret about themselves and he was laughing at their expense and he didn't even know it and that is the reason why he's like

:: 09:23

1 hour, 9 minutes, 23 seconds

ashamed and it is this tra like tragically sad moment of realization and it like

:: 09:34

1 hour, 9 minutes, 34 seconds

it's um you got it here. You got it.

:: 09:36

1 hour, 9 minutes, 36 seconds

So yeah, there's the there's a the initial reaction is he's shocked. He feels ashamed and disgusted. And then it

:: 09:44

1 hour, 9 minutes, 44 seconds

circles back to, you know, him reflecting on all those jokes made and not knowing that

:: 09:53

1 hour, 9 minutes, 53 seconds

someone is part of that group that they're making fun of. Uh, and it ends with that's betrayal.

:: 10:00

1 hour, 10 minutes

And then it comes back. He continues sort of reflecting on this. Um,

:: 10:07

1 hour, 10 minutes, 7 seconds

I'm going to read this this whole section.

:: 10:10

1 hour, 10 minutes, 10 seconds

David drives back to Beartown, sits in the car crying with anger. He's ashamed.

:: 10:14

1 hour, 10 minutes, 14 seconds

He's disgusted at himself. He spent his whole life in hockey, training a boy, has loved him like a son, been loved

:: 10:21

1 hour, 10 minutes, 21 seconds

like in return like a father. There's no more loyal player than Benji. Knows no one whose heart is bigger than his. How many times has David hugged number 16

:: 10:30

1 hour, 10 minutes, 30 seconds

after a game and told him, "You're the bravest bastard I know, Benji. Bravest bastard I know." And after all those hours in the locker room, all those

:: 10:38

1 hour, 10 minutes, 38 seconds

nights on the team bus, all the conversations and all the jokes and the blood, sweat, and tears, the boy didn't dare tell his coach his biggest secret.

:: 10:46

1 hour, 10 minutes, 46 seconds

That's betrayal. David knows it's a huge betrayal. There's no other way to explain how much a grown man must have failed as a person if such a warrior of

:: 10:54

1 hour, 10 minutes, 54 seconds

a boy could believe that his coach would be less proud of him if he were gay.

:: 10:58

1 hour, 10 minutes, 58 seconds

David hates himself for not being better than his dad. That's the job of sons.

:: 11:06

1 hour, 11 minutes, 6 seconds

And that to begin with is um a sucker punch emotionally.

:: 11:17

1 hour, 11 minutes, 17 seconds

What really got me was this next section. Um down to his very marrow. David wishes he

:: 11:25

1 hour, 11 minutes, 25 seconds

could drive back to head, take the boys in his arms, and tell him that he knows now. But he can't bring himself to unmask someone who clearly doesn't want

:: 11:32

1 hour, 11 minutes, 32 seconds

to talk about it. Big secrets make small men of us, especially when we're the men others have to keep secrets from. So, David drives home, puts his hand on his

:: 11:41

1 hour, 11 minutes, 41 seconds

girlfriend's stomach, and pretends he's crying about the baby. His life will be successful. He will achieve everything he's ever dreamed of. Career and success

:: 11:48

1 hour, 11 minutes, 48 seconds

and titles. He'll coach unbeatable teams at legendary clubs in several different countries. But he will never let any

:: 11:55

1 hour, 11 minutes, 55 seconds

player in any of them wear number 16. He will always keep hoping that Benji is going to turn up one day and demand his jersey.

:: 12:06

1 hour, 12 minutes, 6 seconds

Bro, bro, like

:: 12:14

1 hour, 12 minutes, 14 seconds

this sort of desperate attempt to like write wrongs

:: 12:22

1 hour, 12 minutes, 22 seconds

that I really do think like permeates a lot of the emotional beats in this. Um, and you get this like there's like

:: 12:30

1 hour, 12 minutes, 30 seconds

instant redemption of like um the the next quote sort of on this topic that I

:: 12:35

1 hour, 12 minutes, 35 seconds

was going to talk about was um uh a Matt's

:: 12:44

1 hour, 12 minutes, 44 seconds

sort of inception into the team. You know, he comes up from the house team, the wreck team into the junior team.

:: 12:54

1 hour, 12 minutes, 54 seconds

He's the youngest. He's the smallest.

:: 12:56

1 hour, 12 minutes, 56 seconds

he's only really there because he's just like really incredibly like talented and fast. Um, but he's not accepted right away.

:: 13:03

1 hour, 13 minutes, 3 seconds

Like he's not part of this core core group already. And he is being hazed like quite a bit. But when he witnesses

:: 13:11

1 hour, 13 minutes, 11 seconds

uh the rape and chooses not to say anything and keep Kevin secret for him, he is

:: 13:18

1 hour, 13 minutes, 18 seconds

accepted into this team. And the quote says, "Amat is amazed at how straightforward it is. Staying silent in

:: 13:25

1 hour, 13 minutes, 25 seconds

return for being allowed to join in." Um, I actually don't even know where I was

:: 13:33

1 hour, 13 minutes, 33 seconds

going with that. The my mind I'm just so like, wow.

:: 13:39

1 hour, 13 minutes, 39 seconds

Yeah, I'm still I'm still I'm still reeling for Yeah. Why I um Oh, yeah. this and then Amat later on

:: 13:48

1 hour, 13 minutes, 48 seconds

goes goes and does break his silence and he does come out and say well this is what I saw and this is what happened and you know I I'm siding with Maya here

:: 13:56

1 hour, 13 minutes, 56 seconds

because I know what I saw and I know what's right and being having to come to terms with like the

:: 14:05

1 hour, 14 minutes, 5 seconds

consequences of doing the right thing um and this like outright exclusion from what is essentially like

:: 14:13

1 hour, 14 minutes, 13 seconds

celebrity status in this in this small town and this um level of like respect that as I mean for him it's

:: 14:21

1 hour, 14 minutes, 21 seconds

more there's more nuance to it because he's you know this child the child of an immigrant he lives in the poor section of town like this is really the only way

:: 14:28

1 hour, 14 minutes, 28 seconds

for him to climb socially and to have achieved that and then have it all come crashing down because like to sacrifice

:: 14:36

1 hour, 14 minutes, 36 seconds

it to do the right thing is just so profound. I think this the

:: 14:42

1 hour, 14 minutes, 42 seconds

stakes were so high for Amad and like I his character arc was to me the most

:: 14:50

1 hour, 14 minutes, 50 seconds

rewarding because you see him go from this bullied young boy who um well he he's

:: 14:57

1 hour, 14 minutes, 57 seconds

not like the main target of bullying but he is there getting pushed around. Um who has like nothing comes from nothing.

:: 15:05

1 hour, 15 minutes, 5 seconds

Um, all he wants is to support his mother who is like aging and in pain because she has a very physical job and she's suffering from like a back, it's

:: 15:14

1 hour, 15 minutes, 14 seconds

not a back injury, but it's like a chronic back pain. Um, and all that he wants is to like support his mother. And hockey is something that he happens to

:: 15:22

1 hour, 15 minutes, 22 seconds

be incredibly good at and that he has a love for. And he sees this in with the junior team when he's offered a spot.

:: 15:29

1 hour, 15 minutes, 29 seconds

And this is like his life. He's somebody now. He's been made somebody by being on this team. And to have all that to have

:: 15:37

1 hour, 15 minutes, 37 seconds

like everything and to know that you're doing the wrong thing by like like keeping you're you're keeping this secret that could better someone's life.

:: 15:49

1 hour, 15 minutes, 49 seconds

Sorry, I've like phrased this poorly.

:: 15:53

1 hour, 15 minutes, 53 seconds

Let me let me reel it back in. I'm still reeling. Let me reel it back in.

:: 15:59

1 hour, 15 minutes, 59 seconds

to know that if you tell everyone this secret that you're keeping would be to give up that life in exchange for doing

:: 16:08

1 hour, 16 minutes, 8 seconds

the right thing and to better someone else's life. It's such a a painful series of chapters where he has

:: 16:16

1 hour, 16 minutes, 16 seconds

basically been like indoctrinated um into this group where he's keeping the secret because he hasn't decided to tell or not. He's bribed at a point by

:: 16:24

1 hour, 16 minutes, 24 seconds

Kevin's father. Um and he knows it's wrong. He knows deep down it's wrong, but he's still clinging to this like life that he's been fighting for so long for because how could he give it up?

:: 16:35

1 hour, 16 minutes, 35 seconds

It's everything. And then it's a confrontation with his mom that finally like gives him the ability to speak out

:: 16:42

1 hour, 16 minutes, 42 seconds

about this. And it's because he's doing it all for his mother. His dying mother who is his dying mother. She probably would have if she kept doing that. She sounded like she was in a lot of pain.

:: 16:52

1 hour, 16 minutes, 52 seconds

But his mother basically says like if you're keeping this secret for yourself that's wrong. Go and like go and tell

:: 17:00

1 hour, 17 minutes

people like you need to like don't think about yourself here. Don't think about me. Don't think about anything and go and tell it if it needs to be told. And

:: 17:07

1 hour, 17 minutes, 7 seconds

he's doing it all for her. And so her words are the most important words that he's going to hear from anybody. And so he does go and tell. And it's this

:: 17:15

1 hour, 17 minutes, 15 seconds

beautiful moment when he does go and tell everybody because you as the reader aren't told what he's saying. He goes up

:: 17:23

1 hour, 17 minutes, 23 seconds

before the entire city basically who is all gathered to um discuss before the board of Beartown's hockey club um

:: 17:32

1 hour, 17 minutes, 32 seconds

whether or not Peter Anderson, the GM and Maya's father should be removed from his position. Um because of all of the

:: 17:41

1 hour, 17 minutes, 41 seconds

at the time accusations that are happening. Um and obviously in such a large group there's been a lot of

:: 17:48

1 hour, 17 minutes, 48 seconds

fighting in this room and tensions are very high. People are very upset. And Ahmad walks through this crowd of angry

:: 17:55

1 hour, 17 minutes, 55 seconds

adults, this little 15-year-old boy, and he walks through this crowd and he tells them everything that he saw. And you, as the reader, aren't told what he is

:: 18:04

1 hour, 18 minutes, 4 seconds

saying to them, but you're seeing the reactions of these people, and you're seeing how they are responding to him telling

:: 18:11

1 hour, 18 minutes, 11 seconds

the story. and he follows it up with, I know that my statement will be thrown out by the police because I like I am in

:: 18:20

1 hour, 18 minutes, 20 seconds

love with I am in love with Maya. Um I like was drinking that night. There are a lot of reasons why obviously my story

:: 18:28

1 hour, 18 minutes, 28 seconds

will be thrown out and he says that and that's what he ends with. He like and it and it's like and he starts with that.

:: 18:36

1 hour, 18 minutes, 36 seconds

Does he start with that?

:: 18:37

1 hour, 18 minutes, 37 seconds

He starts with that. He goes, "Because I know this is going to come up later and you're going to use this against me.

:: 18:42

1 hour, 18 minutes, 42 seconds

I'm going to tell you all right now. I'm going to start this story by saying like here's here's why here are all the

:: 18:49

1 hour, 18 minutes, 49 seconds

reasons not to believe what I'm telling you." Yeah. But here's what I saw.

:: 18:54

1 hour, 18 minutes, 54 seconds

Here's what I saw. And it's like in that moment, he's not he's not doing it um to like further the rumor of Kevin. He's

:: 19:01

1 hour, 19 minutes, 1 second

not doing it to have him arrested. He's doing it purely because he knows it's the right thing. And it's like this his arc to me was like one like one of the

:: 19:10

1 hour, 19 minutes, 10 seconds

most satisfying obviously like second to Maya's but I just like I don't I wasn't even getting to a point

:: 19:17

1 hour, 19 minutes, 17 seconds

I just wanted to talk about it I think like I just like but I think that speaks to like the sort of back and forth between the women and

:: 19:24

1 hour, 19 minutes, 24 seconds

the men this sort of like us versus them sort of um this divide that happens because of hockey like you know the

:: 19:32

1 hour, 19 minutes, 32 seconds

the the male players um are

:: 19:40

1 hour, 19 minutes, 40 seconds

sort of like lauded with such a high status. But then you have this supporting cast of women. You've got

:: 19:47

1 hour, 19 minutes, 47 seconds

David and his girlfriend. You have Ramona and the the pack at the bar who like will will if you cross Ramona like

:: 19:55

1 hour, 19 minutes, 55 seconds

they will kick your ass um in a dark alley somewhere. You know, you've got Amat and the influence of his mother and

:: 20:02

1 hour, 20 minutes, 2 seconds

their relationship. You've got Maya and her dad. And you've got Peter and his wife. Um and you have, you know,

:: 20:12

1 hour, 20 minutes, 12 seconds

um Benji and all his sisters.

:: 20:14

1 hour, 20 minutes, 14 seconds

Benji and his sisters. And you've got uh Bobo and his parents. Yeah. And you've got um uh William and Megan.

:: 20:23

1 hour, 20 minutes, 23 seconds

And then you've got Megan and uh her best friend. And then her best friend and her best friend's son who's also on the team, Philip. Philip's mom. I don't remember what Philip's mom's name is.

:: 20:33

1 hour, 20 minutes, 33 seconds

She's one of the named characters that I like can't recall.

:: 20:36

1 hour, 20 minutes, 36 seconds

No, she is also named, but she like for her because she chooses to stay stay silent towards Megan uh while Megan is

:: 20:45

1 hour, 20 minutes, 45 seconds

supporting the male like to to Kevin and the hockey team, she's like one of the loudest voices against Maya. And you

:: 20:54

1 hour, 20 minutes, 54 seconds

know, it's interesting this like this desire to be part of the group even though like Megan herself will never be

:: 21:03

1 hour, 21 minutes, 3 seconds

she takes it very personally despite the fact that she will never be on the ice. This will never be her in the situation. Everything is so incredibly personal.

:: 21:10

1 hour, 21 minutes, 10 seconds

Her this kind of like desire to live vicariously through your son. Yeah.

:: 21:15

1 hour, 21 minutes, 15 seconds

To like get the respect through him that you would never get as a woman in this town.

:: 21:23

1 hour, 21 minutes, 23 seconds

um is so profound. I

:: 21:30

1 hour, 21 minutes, 30 seconds

during the scene um where they're all like the city has met before the board and Megan is going on this

:: 21:39

1 hour, 21 minutes, 39 seconds

incredible incredible incredible um tirade that just like is

:: 21:46

1 hour, 21 minutes, 46 seconds

devastating. It's hard to read. what she is saying is honestly I would say more

:: 21:53

1 hour, 21 minutes, 53 seconds

more difficult to read than um Maya's recount of the actual events because Megan is saying these things with this

:: 22:01

1 hour, 22 minutes, 1 second

like hatred of this little girl and it is like shock it is it is shocking to read

:: 22:08

1 hour, 22 minutes, 8 seconds

truly. Um, but her her best friend um finally like stands up and says

:: 22:16

1 hour, 22 minutes, 16 seconds

something to her and all she says is, "Shut up, Megan." And it's quite possibly one of the most beautiful moments in this. I literally Yeah. I was

:: 22:24

1 hour, 22 minutes, 24 seconds

like, "Good." I was like, "Yeah, get her ass.

:: 22:26

1 hour, 22 minutes, 26 seconds

Get her. You [ __ ] tell her." Um, it's just one I'm like, I'm trying to I don't know. I got to start taking better notes cuz I don't You know what? I'm not

:: 22:35

1 hour, 22 minutes, 35 seconds

going to need to ever take better notes, right? like a whole dissertation I think on this book.

:: 22:41

1 hour, 22 minutes, 41 seconds

Yeah. I'm like I might make my own video on this that's like books about this book. You and he did two more. Yeah. And I'm I'mma read them. And I'm going read them.

:: 22:48

1 hour, 22 minutes, 48 seconds

And I'mma read them. Yeah. I Yeah.

:: 22:51

1 hour, 22 minutes, 51 seconds

Maybe we'll make that another We'll do a series.

:: 22:54

1 hour, 22 minutes, 54 seconds

Yeah. Maybe we should watch the show, too. Oh my god. We'll do a whole spin-off. Yeah.

:: 22:59

1 hour, 22 minutes, 59 seconds

This is the start of something phenomenal. Yeah. And deeply personal.

:: 23:03

1 hour, 23 minutes, 3 seconds

And deeply personal. Maybe I'll care about about real life hockey now, too. I don't know.

:: 23:08

1 hour, 23 minutes, 8 seconds

You already you watched the Olympics with me. I kind of do care a lot.

:: 23:10

1 hour, 23 minutes, 10 seconds

Although it was just on and you were just we had a captive audience. Yeah.

:: 23:14

1 hour, 23 minutes, 14 seconds

Um I cared tangentially. Like I gigg Yeah.

:: 23:17

1 hour, 23 minutes, 17 seconds

It's not personal to me though. But yeah.

:: 23:20

1 hour, 23 minutes, 20 seconds

Have we What else are we We're at an hour and 32 minutes.

:: 23:25

1 hour, 23 minutes, 25 seconds

That's pretty good. I thought we were Well, we were Especially because I think the first like 15 minutes or so uh was a lot of like me bumbling around.

:: 23:35

1 hour, 23 minutes, 35 seconds

Yeah. Um, I feel like we've really not done this book justice in terms of like going into the

:: 23:44

1 hour, 23 minutes, 44 seconds

nuances of it. I honestly can't even I'm at I'm so it's there's so much going on that I'm

:: 23:51

1 hour, 23 minutes, 51 seconds

almost at a loss. Like I'm sort of overwhelmed by the amount of like things to talk about. Yeah.

:: 24:00

1 hour, 24 minutes

And I don't think I can really um go in-depth on it as much. I mean, I I

:: 24:07

1 hour, 24 minutes, 7 seconds

think I would have to read this book over and over and over and I would take away something new every time.

:: 24:12

1 hour, 24 minutes, 12 seconds

Yeah. Yeah. The again I think I said at the beginning like the subtext of this is so powerful

:: 24:20

1 hour, 24 minutes, 20 seconds

and every every single sentence in this book is intentional and serves a purpose and

:: 24:28

1 hour, 24 minutes, 28 seconds

that is actually very hard to say about a lot of books uh contemporarily.

:: 24:34

1 hour, 24 minutes, 34 seconds

Yeah. So yeah.

:: 24:41

1 hour, 24 minutes, 41 seconds

Yeah, I can hear the rain outside.

:: 24:44

1 hour, 24 minutes, 44 seconds

I I know. It's like It's really beautiful.

:: 24:46

1 hour, 24 minutes, 46 seconds

Um it's very ambiance.

:: 24:48

1 hour, 24 minutes, 48 seconds

It's Yeah. Um ambient ambient ambient noise. Ambient noise.

:: 24:52

1 hour, 24 minutes, 52 seconds

Did I go French for some reason? I don't know.

:: 24:55

1 hour, 24 minutes, 55 seconds

Um, I guess I guess we could talk about the obvious thing um that we haven't really touched

:: 25:04

1 hour, 25 minutes, 4 seconds

on, which is like the actual rape that happens in this.

:: 25:07

1 hour, 25 minutes, 7 seconds

Um, because I I don't want to like dance around the topic. It's it's like a pivotal plot point. You like

:: 25:15

1 hour, 25 minutes, 15 seconds

there's no reason to dance around it. It happens. Um, and it's described pretty graphically,

:: 25:22

1 hour, 25 minutes, 22 seconds

um, for the most part. And the the fallout from it is honestly like

:: 25:32

1 hour, 25 minutes, 32 seconds

and like I said before um with Megan's um kind of like tirade reading the

:: 25:39

1 hour, 25 minutes, 39 seconds

people the town's folks reaction to it is almost more gruesome than reading the act of it because it's this

:: 25:47

1 hour, 25 minutes, 47 seconds

malicious like it's it's it's so hard to read because it's like you are aware as the

:: 25:56

1 hour, 25 minutes, 56 seconds

reader that these people are making these excuses for this boy, are making these like they're they're grasping at

:: 26:04

1 hour, 26 minutes, 4 seconds

these straws to make him a victim in this situation when he is not the victim. He is the perpetrator. and they

:: 26:12

1 hour, 26 minutes, 12 seconds

just want so desperately for their star player, their golden boy to be completely exonerated and to not have to

:: 26:19

1 hour, 26 minutes, 19 seconds

face any consequences because they want to see him as this perfect thing, as this angel. Um, and

:: 26:27

1 hour, 26 minutes, 27 seconds

to do that, they have to degrade this girl, this she's 15, Maya is 15, Kevin is 17. I think there's a quote in it

:: 26:36

1 hour, 26 minutes, 36 seconds

that was quite powerful that I don't think that I have saved. um but it's in regard to their age um and how the two

:: 26:44

1 hour, 26 minutes, 44 seconds

are spoken about. But it basically I'm I'm gonna miss I'm gonna just generally quote it here. The quote essentially

:: 26:52

1 hour, 26 minutes, 52 seconds

says Kevin is 17, Maya is 15 below the legal age of consent in this situation

:: 26:59

1 hour, 26 minutes, 59 seconds

when it's spoken about Maya is the is the young woman and Kevin is the boy.

:: 27:04

1 hour, 27 minutes, 4 seconds

And it's such a horrible thing to have to read because you read that pretty early on into um like the events and you

:: 27:14

1 hour, 27 minutes, 14 seconds

have to know throughout and you will recognize it throughout every time an adult calls Maya the young woman or

:: 27:22

1 hour, 27 minutes, 22 seconds

calls her like the like that that [ __ ] they say a lot or like that [ __ ] And they use these words to describe this

:: 27:30

1 hour, 27 minutes, 30 seconds

15-year-old girl. And you know, you know that she's just this little girl. And it's this like horrible thing because

:: 27:36

1 hour, 27 minutes, 36 seconds

you see Maya's reaction to it after you see her scrubbing herself raw in the shower. You see her isolating herself,

:: 27:43

1 hour, 27 minutes, 43 seconds

crying. Um there's a bit of um conflict between her and Anna because there's a misunderstanding at the party. Anna

:: 27:52

1 hour, 27 minutes, 52 seconds

thinks that Maya has abandoned her for a boy. uh Maya thinks that Anna has just outright abandoned her um and like left

:: 28:00

1 hour, 28 minutes

the party. And so there's a period where Maya doesn't have her best friend. And it makes the moment where the two reconnect so powerful because at that point Anna knows what has happened.

:: 28:11

1 hour, 28 minutes, 11 seconds

She's seen Kevin and she knows that he is scared and she sees it in his eyes in the same way that Benji sees it in his eyes that he is scared of what he has

:: 28:19

1 hour, 28 minutes, 19 seconds

done. And when Anna comes back to Maya and like apologizes and is like, "I'm so sorry. Like, I abandoned you. I saw him.

:: 28:28

1 hour, 28 minutes, 28 seconds

I saw that he was scared." It's like this incredibly powerful moment where the two are just embracing. And it's like,

:: 28:36

1 hour, 28 minutes, 36 seconds

you know, that and not everything is okay, but in that moment, for a second, a brief second, it feels like things are okay when she has like her her best friend,

:: 28:44

1 hour, 28 minutes, 44 seconds

her world there um back. And it's it's like this moment of solace

:: 28:50

1 hour, 28 minutes, 50 seconds

um almost where at least she's not alone after what is such like an intensely violent kind of betrayal I think between

:: 28:59

1 hour, 28 minutes, 59 seconds

the two. You know, they're so inseparable for so much of this this novel. And then a quote I have highlighted is if Anna left Maya alone

:: 29:07

1 hour, 29 minutes, 7 seconds

in the wilderness, Maya would die. But what she didn't realize when she left Maya alone at a party was that it amounted to the same thing.

:: 29:16

1 hour, 29 minutes, 16 seconds

this sort of um I think and Anna like carries this guilt with her afterwards. I mean it's not

:: 29:24

1 hour, 29 minutes, 24 seconds

just Maya affected by it. Like Anna knows that in some ways that she is responsible because you know she feels

:: 29:31

1 hour, 29 minutes, 31 seconds

that her duty is to protect Maya is to save her and she didn't do it and she was unable to do it and she let other

:: 29:41

1 hour, 29 minutes, 41 seconds

emotions get in the way and it it cost her the Maya that she knew and it cost

:: 29:49

1 hour, 29 minutes, 49 seconds

Maya a whole hell of a lot as well. I think one of the most re like reoccurring things that happens in this

:: 29:58

1 hour, 29 minutes, 58 seconds

book that is the most heartbreaking is when another character goes up to Maya and says it's all my fault because a lot of characters who are very close to her go up and say that. Like Anna says that because she abandoned her at the party.

:: 30:08

1 hour, 30 minutes, 8 seconds

She says it's all my fault. It's all my fault. Um Peter and Kira, her parents both think it's their fault and they tell her that they think it's their

:: 30:16

1 hour, 30 minutes, 16 seconds

fault. And every time Maya is confronted with other people saying they think it's their fault, she tells them it's not their fault. and and it it's and I think

:: 30:25

1 hour, 30 minutes, 25 seconds

that there is possibly a quote tied to this um instance somewhere where it's

:: 30:32

1 hour, 30 minutes, 32 seconds

Kira and Maya and the narrator says something along and this like broke my heart. It says something along the lines

:: 30:39

1 hour, 30 minutes, 39 seconds

of um it's rare to see a child comforting her mother. Um, and it it was

:: 30:46

1 hour, 30 minutes, 46 seconds

like it's so heartbreaking cuz after you see it that first time, much like you see um the young woman thing, you can't

:: 30:54

1 hour, 30 minutes, 54 seconds

stop seeing it. You will see Maya comforting all the adults around her, all the people around her, despite the fact that she's the one that's undergone

:: 31:02

1 hour, 31 minutes, 2 seconds

this horrible thing and she is somehow responsible for the emotional burden of these other people who feel like they

:: 31:08

1 hour, 31 minutes, 8 seconds

are somehow responsible for it. And the entire time I was like,

:: 31:16

1 hour, 31 minutes, 16 seconds

I don't know how to explain this, but I suspended my disbelief too hard. And these characters became real to me for a

:: 31:23

1 hour, 31 minutes, 23 seconds

moment because I got emotional at how strong of a child she had to be. I was

:: 31:30

1 hour, 31 minutes, 30 seconds

like, she this is the most like this is the strongest child ever. She's 15 in this. I like and I I keep I feel like I

:: 31:39

1 hour, 31 minutes, 39 seconds

keep saying that and saying it over and over again and really like driving it home because how she acts in this there's this theme in this book of

:: 31:47

1 hour, 31 minutes, 47 seconds

children forced to grow up too fast. You see it with the boys um being forced to respond like to be responsible for like basically the whole town the

:: 31:56

1 hour, 31 minutes, 56 seconds

expectations of the whole town how their economic um basically stability relies on these boys and and they are feeling

:: 32:03

1 hour, 32 minutes, 3 seconds

the pressure from that. And then you see Maya having to shoulder the burden of all of the emotional like everything like she has to shoulder

:: 32:12

1 hour, 32 minutes, 12 seconds

the emotions of all the adults around her and she somehow comes out being the mature one and it it's

:: 32:19

1 hour, 32 minutes, 19 seconds

tragic to see it because I I feel like the adults don't really acknowledge it

:: 32:26

1 hour, 32 minutes, 26 seconds

at any point in the book that she is being so strong not by simply surviving this terrible thing that's happened to

:: 32:34

1 hour, 32 minutes, 34 seconds

her, but also dealing with the fallout, her reaction to it is like I forgot that she was a fictional character for a

:: 32:43

1 hour, 32 minutes, 43 seconds

moment. And I like was just like floored by how mature she

:: 32:50

1 hour, 32 minutes, 50 seconds

was acting and then I was like, "Oh, she's not real, right?" But like she was so real to me that I was like just in

:: 32:58

1 hour, 32 minutes, 58 seconds

disbelief at how like Anyway, I've gone off on like an incredibly long tangent here about this. Um but like it

:: 33:09

1 hour, 33 minutes, 9 seconds

it's so it's so I I'm like kind of speechless. I think um

:: 33:17

1 hour, 33 minutes, 17 seconds

like the the scene I think that really sums up all of this Mhm.

:: 33:21

1 hour, 33 minutes, 21 seconds

is um the scene where Kevin's mother Oh god. shows up.

:: 33:29

1 hour, 33 minutes, 29 seconds

Oh my god. shows up at Maya's house. Oh my god.

:: 33:35

1 hour, 33 minutes, 35 seconds

And falls to Maya's knees and basically just like lo like loses it like at

:: 33:42

1 hour, 33 minutes, 42 seconds

Maya's feet. Loses it. She's crying at her at her feet and and and she's like, "I'm sorry." And Maya goes, "It isn't your

:: 33:51

1 hour, 33 minutes, 51 seconds

fault." And it's so interesting like this. Um I mean, it's heartbreaking because this is the woman who cleaned

:: 34:00

1 hour, 34 minutes

all of the evidence out of Kevin's room, scrubbed his room clean. There were no They were very concerned about like the

:: 34:08

1 hour, 34 minutes, 8 seconds

scent of weed. They were concerned about like the bed sheets, the button that had fallen off of Maya's shirt.

:: 34:14

1 hour, 34 minutes, 14 seconds

And from the beginning, um, Kevin's mother like knows there's something off.

:: 34:19

1 hour, 34 minutes, 19 seconds

She sees a scratch on Kevin that is like strange and out of place, but doesn't question it. She like cleans his room that first time and notices the button,

:: 34:28

1 hour, 34 minutes, 28 seconds

but doesn't say anything. She notices picture frames that are offkilter in the doorway and says nothing. She knows that something is happening here, but says

:: 34:37

1 hour, 34 minutes, 37 seconds

nothing at the beginning. and it eats her up alive like slowly slowly it eats away at her until the culmination of it

:: 34:43

1 hour, 34 minutes, 43 seconds

is this scene where she's sobbing at the knees of a child and begging her for forgiveness and it's so powerful um

:: 34:53

1 hour, 34 minutes, 53 seconds

and it's she's and this is this comes right after you know Kevin and his mother have this

:: 35:01

1 hour, 35 minutes, 1 second

almost like standoff you know she she goes over to Kevin and she forces him to look at her to make eye contact. And she

:: 35:10

1 hour, 35 minutes, 10 seconds

knows she knows that he has done what everyone is accusing him of. and it

:: 35:16

1 hour, 35 minutes, 16 seconds

breaks her, you know, and she um this sort of scene where

:: 35:26

1 hour, 35 minutes, 26 seconds

she knows but hasn't really fully come to terms with it and has to like so she goes to, you know, Maya's house and when

:: 35:33

1 hour, 35 minutes, 33 seconds

she sees Maya, she notices the matching like bruises and like scratch marks that

:: 35:42

1 hour, 35 minutes, 42 seconds

are on Maya that are consistent with the scratch marks on Kevin and it's just

:: 35:50

1 hour, 35 minutes, 50 seconds

this undeniable like evidence that she's known it all along but she's

:: 35:58

1 hour, 35 minutes, 58 seconds

finally faced to confront like forced to confront it there in that moment that there is no way this didn't happen.

:: 36:03

1 hour, 36 minutes, 3 seconds

Yeah. And that in in in many ways she herself is responsible for the

:: 36:10

1 hour, 36 minutes, 10 seconds

trauma, for the grief, for the the abuse and the um you know disrespect that has

:: 36:17

1 hour, 36 minutes, 17 seconds

been thrown at Maya. Um this the sort of culpability of every single

:: 36:25

1 hour, 36 minutes, 25 seconds

person at every stage of these interactions.

:: 36:29

1 hour, 36 minutes, 29 seconds

Um, I mean really like the only person who is not in the wrong here in some way or does not feel well, you know. Yeah.

:: 36:38

1 hour, 36 minutes, 38 seconds

The only person who's not in the wrong here in some way is is Maya herself. Yeah.

:: 36:44

1 hour, 36 minutes, 44 seconds

Um, and she still forgives them. Like it breaks my heart. She forgives everybody

:: 36:52

1 hour, 36 minutes, 52 seconds

who goes up to her and feels some form of guilt for this. Um, it's always like it's my fault and it's

:: 36:59

1 hour, 36 minutes, 59 seconds

always Maya saying it's not your fault and it's like so it's so I don't even I like I'm getting stressed

:: 37:08

1 hour, 37 minutes, 8 seconds

out here. I'm like if you see me sitting here like Nelly like like it's cuz I'm I'm st Come call back. Yeah. Sorry. Put

:: 37:16

1 hour, 37 minutes, 16 seconds

Yo, editor Claire, put a put a screen cap of Nelly here over top of me because I'm like stressing out like I

:: 37:25

1 hour, 37 minutes, 25 seconds

Sorry I asked you to do that. My apologies, but I Yeah.

:: 37:32

1 hour, 37 minutes, 32 seconds

Um there's

:: 37:38

1 hour, 37 minutes, 38 seconds

there's this quote uh that says if it's often said that human beings are pack

:: 37:46

1 hour, 37 minutes, 46 seconds

animals. And that thought is so deeply embedded that hardly anyone is prepared to admit that many of us are actually really rubbish at being in groups, that

:: 37:54

1 hour, 37 minutes, 54 seconds

we can't cooperate, that we're selfish, or worst of all, that we're the sort of people other people just don't like. So we keep repeating, "I'm a good team

:: 38:01

1 hour, 38 minutes, 1 second

player." until we believe it ourselves without actually being prepared to pay the price. And I I really do think that

:: 38:08

1 hour, 38 minutes, 8 seconds

sums up this book. Um that sums up the the violence and the hatred and

:: 38:18

1 hour, 38 minutes, 18 seconds

the tragedy and the joy and the community

:: 38:26

1 hour, 38 minutes, 26 seconds

and everything in between.

:: 38:31

1 hour, 38 minutes, 31 seconds

um to

:: 38:40

1 hour, 38 minutes, 40 seconds

to have to confront I think humanity in such um a straightforward way and yet

:: 38:49

1 hour, 38 minutes, 49 seconds

it is I mean it is very much uh a situation that was everybody's fault and nobody's fault.

:: 39:00

1 hour, 39 minutes

Yeah.

:: 39:03

1 hour, 39 minutes, 3 seconds

Um and it's hard even I think because you know we even in this book spend so much time with Kevin.

:: 39:12

1 hour, 39 minutes, 12 seconds

Yeah.

:: 39:13

1 hour, 39 minutes, 13 seconds

Uh like this this perpetrator and it's so easy to just automatically go like okay well he's he's he is well he is in

:: 39:20

1 hour, 39 minutes, 20 seconds

the wrong. Like let's get that very clear. He's in the wrong.

:: 39:24

1 hour, 39 minutes, 24 seconds

He is responsible for this. But you also understand how he got there, which is a very hard place to be in.

:: 39:31

1 hour, 39 minutes, 31 seconds

Literally in the moments leading up to it, you see um William Lit saying um like making a bet with Kevin that like,

:: 39:40

1 hour, 39 minutes, 40 seconds

"Oh, I bet you won't be able to sleep with the GM's daughter." And Kevin's like, "All right, bet." And and even before that, Kevin shows some genuine

:: 39:49

1 hour, 39 minutes, 49 seconds

interest in Maya. And and there are these moments where it's like you see the humanity in him beforehand and then

:: 39:57

1 hour, 39 minutes, 57 seconds

you see this horri that you see him do this horrible act and you're forced to confront the fact that he is a person

:: 40:04

1 hour, 40 minutes, 4 seconds

and you have experienced these moments with him these like brief moments of humanity with him and now you have to

:: 40:12

1 hour, 40 minutes, 12 seconds

confront the fact that he's doing a horrible thing. Mhm.

:: 40:14

1 hour, 40 minutes, 14 seconds

Um, and I feel like the book kind of doesn't follow him so much after the fallout. It's um more of like a object

:: 40:24

1 hour, 40 minutes, 24 seconds

like objective observer than it is this close focus on him as it is in the beginning and his emotions and his feelings.

:: 40:32

1 hour, 40 minutes, 32 seconds

Um, but it really really sets out to show you that he is a person. Um, and whether

:: 40:40

1 hour, 40 minutes, 40 seconds

you know this is like a this action is a product of, you know, toxic masculinity or like poor raising or hockey culture

:: 40:49

1 hour, 40 minutes, 49 seconds

or whatever it is the product of, it is a thing that has happened that you can't deny has happened. Um, and it's this horrible ugly thing. And even though he

:: 40:58

1 hour, 40 minutes, 58 seconds

is a human, this is an evil thing that he's done.

:: 41:01

1 hour, 41 minutes, 1 second

Um, and he knows it. and he knows it and he's scared and ashamed even like for his whole life he carries it up

:: 41:09

1 hour, 41 minutes, 9 seconds

until the very like end that we can see here and you know so much of this book is so beautiful and so ugly and it's so

:: 41:17

1 hour, 41 minutes, 17 seconds

real. Um, and I just like I'm just I'm just floored that a book like this and

:: 41:25

1 hour, 41 minutes, 25 seconds

it's one of those books that it makes me like kind of look at it and look at like the page count and be like this book accomplished so much in like 4 415

:: 41:34

1 hour, 41 minutes, 34 seconds

pages. The fact that a book can accomplish as much as this book has makes me shocked that there are books that can be considered like garbage or

:: 41:44

1 hour, 41 minutes, 44 seconds

like slob because like this is like life-changing. I can hold in 400 pages a life-changing book um with characters

:: 41:51

1 hour, 41 minutes, 51 seconds

that feel so real that I forget that they're characters and it's just like this incredible feat of I

:: 41:59

1 hour, 41 minutes, 59 seconds

guess just writing and like I like it it's shocking to me. Um and I don't want to like sit here and like glaze the book

:: 42:08

1 hour, 42 minutes, 8 seconds

forever. Obviously there are some things that you will dislike about it. There are some things that you will hate about it and that's okay. That's fine. Every book is subject to criticism. every work

:: 42:16

1 hour, 42 minutes, 16 seconds

is subject to criticism, I think. Um, but I do just believe that it is an incredible feat of like humanity. This

:: 42:25

1 hour, 42 minutes, 25 seconds

book is um Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to like that felt like a closing statement I was making. I don't know. Like, no, I think if I could have this book

:: 42:33

1 hour, 42 minutes, 33 seconds

surgically embedded in me forever, I probably would do that. Yeah.

:: 42:37

1 hour, 42 minutes, 37 seconds

I I mean, we both made it perfectly clear that we really loved this book.

:: 42:42

1 hour, 42 minutes, 42 seconds

And I would actually maybe go so far as to argue this is the best book we've talked about on this podcast. I think so.

:: 42:50

1 hour, 42 minutes, 50 seconds

Um, in my in my like biased opinion, obviously like as the reader, I I recognize that my opinion is biased.

:: 42:57

1 hour, 42 minutes, 57 seconds

This, in my opinion, is the best book that we've read.

:: 43:00

1 hour, 43 minutes

Um, at least the most impactful on us as individuals. Um, obviously there's things to be said about the other um,

:: 43:08

1 hour, 43 minutes, 8 seconds

books that we've read and their cultural impact and impact they'll have on other readers. It'll be different from person to person. For me personally, this so far has been

:: 43:15

1 hour, 43 minutes, 15 seconds

I don't want to say the best because best is like kind of like a subjective kind of thing. Um it's been the most impactful on this is my favorite. Yeah.

:: 43:24

1 hour, 43 minutes, 24 seconds

This is my favorite.

:: 43:24

1 hour, 43 minutes, 24 seconds

Um so far that's my favorite page page deep. Yeah.

:: 43:29

1 hour, 43 minutes, 29 seconds

Uh page deepest and I have actually like no doubt that we will be revisiting Yeah. um Frederick

:: 43:37

1 hour, 43 minutes, 37 seconds

and his characters Beartown related or not. Uh he just had a new one come out.

:: 43:45

1 hour, 43 minutes, 45 seconds

He just had like a new book this year, I think.

:: 43:47

1 hour, 43 minutes, 47 seconds

Oh [ __ ] Okay. Well, and I've been hearing non-stop about it. So, it is it is on the shelf to be read.

:: 43:55

1 hour, 43 minutes, 55 seconds

Um hopefully we'll see if I can get my hands on it.

:: 43:59

1 hour, 43 minutes, 59 seconds

It's got like a hundred people in line in the library, so gotta get in the gota get on the wait list. Yeah. Yeah.

:: 44:06

1 hour, 44 minutes, 6 seconds

Um, do we want to like close off or do we want to keep going?

:: 44:11

1 hour, 44 minutes, 11 seconds

Well, I think we'll What are we at?

:: 44:13

1 hour, 44 minutes, 13 seconds

Sort of. We're at an hour and 55 minutes.

:: 44:15

1 hour, 44 minutes, 15 seconds

I want to I want to if if we're closing off, I want to end off on quite possibly the funniest uh Oh, yeah. Good reads review.

:: 44:22

1 hour, 44 minutes, 22 seconds

Let's go Let's switch um switch um We're switching gears.

:: 44:26

1 hour, 44 minutes, 26 seconds

Switch gears a little bit into like the happier funnier parts of this. Oh, yeah. Let's get happy.

:: 44:31

1 hour, 44 minutes, 31 seconds

Let's get Let's Let's be happy. Let's let's end this on a upbeat sort of note.

:: 44:36

1 hour, 44 minutes, 36 seconds

Wait, life is wonderful and and I can have fun. Let's remember that.

:: 44:40

1 hour, 44 minutes, 40 seconds

Yes, this is not entirely an emotional sucker punch.

:: 44:43

1 hour, 44 minutes, 43 seconds

It did make me laugh as well. Um there's this one line. There's this sort of ongoing dialogue about like how shitty the coffee at the rink is.

:: 44:53

1 hour, 44 minutes, 53 seconds

Oh, I love yo, I love the overarching coffee plot.

:: 44:57

1 hour, 44 minutes, 57 seconds

Multiple characters bring this up. You know what's so funny is is you say um like you didn't recognize immediately that this isn't Sweden from the moment

:: 45:06

1 hour, 45 minutes, 6 seconds

they were talking about shitty coffee. I was like this is so Swedish. Coffee is such an incredible part of Swedish culture that like just goes completely

:: 45:14

1 hour, 45 minutes, 14 seconds

unspoken. Um when I like arrived in Sweden um in um I can't remember the

:: 45:22

1 hour, 45 minutes, 22 seconds

name. It was it was a small town. I stayed with my um my great aunt uh in her like small pretty small beautiful

:: 45:29

1 hour, 45 minutes, 29 seconds

beautiful like historical house. The first thing she did was serve us coffee and I was like, "Dude, I'm jetlagged.

:: 45:34

1 hour, 45 minutes, 34 seconds

I'm so tired." And she's like, "No, no, you have to try Swedish coffee. You don't get it." And I was like, "Okay." And so I tried it and obviously like so good. So good. And she like made it. It

:: 45:42

1 hour, 45 minutes, 42 seconds

was Zoeas specifically, which was like um kind of like a locally roasted um thing. And my grandma brought back from

:: 45:50

1 hour, 45 minutes, 50 seconds

that trip like three packages of Zoeas coffee and like waited like she slowly slowly used that. It was but anyway

:: 45:58

1 hour, 45 minutes, 58 seconds

coffee is such an important part of Swedish culture. I think it's actually like the national drink. Anyway anyway but to see it like be such an important

:: 46:06

1 hour, 46 minutes, 6 seconds

background like like repetitively mentioned um like topic. I was just like that like it was so it just felt like so

:: 46:15

1 hour, 46 minutes, 15 seconds

real to me. Like I just love I love that Peter always has a shitty coffee in his hand and he just he keeps drinking it

:: 46:22

1 hour, 46 minutes, 22 seconds

on the I think the the main coffee one I highlighted that just like cracked me up was um he always brews an extra pot each

:: 46:30

1 hour, 46 minutes, 30 seconds

morning and fills a thermos. The coffee at the rink is so bad you ought to be able to charge someone for assault just for offering it to you. I was like, you

:: 46:38

1 hour, 46 minutes, 38 seconds

know what, that is actually how I feel when someone like gives me a cup of coffee that is just horrendous.

:: 46:45

1 hour, 46 minutes, 45 seconds

Um cuz coffee to me is also deeply personal. I'm a big coffee person. Um

:: 46:52

1 hour, 46 minutes, 52 seconds

and it's just like I I almost had a good cry later at the book when uh Maya gifts her father the espresso machine.

:: 47:03

1 hour, 47 minutes, 3 seconds

I I was like, "What? That's so nice.

:: 47:05

1 hour, 47 minutes, 5 seconds

She's about a goat." and like pick up that gun now.

:: 47:09

1 hour, 47 minutes, 9 seconds

She's going to go kill someone. What a nice thing to do for her dad. And she made her um she or she got sorry, she got her mom

:: 47:17

1 hour, 47 minutes, 17 seconds

the mug with the wolf and I was like, dude, she can drink the co the good coffee out of it. Oh my god. Like I was

:: 47:23

1 hour, 47 minutes, 23 seconds

like I was so emotional. I was like it was the lifechanging espresso machine. Truly

:: 47:31

1 hour, 47 minutes, 31 seconds

that that one. I actually really hope it comes up in the next book in the series.

:: 47:36

1 hour, 47 minutes, 36 seconds

I'm like there's a few things that I'm like I really really want to read the next book because I want to know if this happens and like this whatever. One of them is I need to see a return of that

:: 47:44

1 hour, 47 minutes, 44 seconds

espresso machine. I need to know what happens to it. It's just like it's a new character that got introduced.

:: 47:51

1 hour, 47 minutes, 51 seconds

That's serious. Yeah, that's like a seriously important character.

:: 47:54

1 hour, 47 minutes, 54 seconds

Um but it's so funny to me cuz David brings up the the coffee at the rink. Peter brings it up and then um

:: 48:02

1 hour, 48 minutes, 2 seconds

Soon does it as well. soon is also like if you if you want to be a coach, you have to get used to drinking bad coffee.

:: 48:08

1 hour, 48 minutes, 8 seconds

It's like, okay, the coffee culture is like an entirely different thing here. Yeah. But there's also like the alcoholism.

:: 48:16

1 hour, 48 minutes, 16 seconds

Oh, yeah. Yes. The the whole um like the kind of the thing that's happening in the background with Ramona and the pack

:: 48:24

1 hour, 48 minutes, 24 seconds

and that bar and the guys um oh, what's his face? Uh who gets uh Rob Oh, not Robbie, was it?

:: 48:31

1 hour, 48 minutes, 31 seconds

Oh, yeah, it's Robbie. It really goes who who was like a star player in his day with Peter, but then I think he gets injured.

:: 48:40

1 hour, 48 minutes, 40 seconds

He gets pushed up to the A team quickly. Yeah.

:: 48:42

1 hour, 48 minutes, 42 seconds

And then sort of burns out and then winds up at the factory with the rest of the people from the town, but then gets fired and or laid off because I think

:: 48:52

1 hour, 48 minutes, 52 seconds

the factory is like pairing down and then winds up just like drinking like day drinking in Ramona's bar. Um, and so

:: 48:59

1 hour, 48 minutes, 59 seconds

Peter has to like go to Tails and be like, "Hey, do you have any openings like openings? I don't want to watch my

:: 49:06

1 hour, 49 minutes, 6 seconds

like childhood friend and like teammate like drink himself to death." And you kind of forget that Tails was also on that team and that's how they

:: 49:15

1 hour, 49 minutes, 15 seconds

know each other because Tails is like this sponsor. So he kind of has to, you know, be like a presentable guy to the media and he has to kind of be like

:: 49:22

1 hour, 49 minutes, 22 seconds

money focused and image focused and everything like that. but he also has like that connection to Robbie. Um, and

:: 49:30

1 hour, 49 minutes, 30 seconds

you know, it's kind of like he he's very much willing like at the end of it, I wish I had the quote highlighted because he um is like, "Oh my god, yeah, I do remember that guy.

:: 49:40

1 hour, 49 minutes, 40 seconds

Like I will look into it." And and he does he I think like there's I think it's just kind of throwaway line. Um but

:: 49:48

1 hour, 49 minutes, 48 seconds

he does get that job in the end and it's like a nice little a nice little bow on top there. Um, but yeah, no, the Oh,

:: 49:58

1 hour, 49 minutes, 58 seconds

what I was going to say was it cracked me up was the bit with Sorry, I hope that wasn't like terrible audio

:: 50:04

1 hour, 50 minutes, 4 seconds

there. Um, the bit with Ramona when um Kevin's dad walks in with Tails into the bar and he says, um, you know, can we

:: 50:13

1 hour, 50 minutes, 13 seconds

get a drink? And she gives him like this terrible terrible terrible whiskey and and Tails throws it back instant. Like

:: 50:20

1 hour, 50 minutes, 20 seconds

Tails is like, whatever, I'm drink is booze. And then Kevin's dad like takes it and he's like, "Is this your worst whiskey?" And Ramona goes, "Yeah."

:: 50:29

1 hour, 50 minutes, 29 seconds

And he goes, "Can we get your best whiskey?" She pours it from the same bottle and she goes, "One kind of whiskey in the bare skin.

:: 50:36

1 hour, 50 minutes, 36 seconds

Love this woman." Hilarious.

:: 50:38

1 hour, 50 minutes, 38 seconds

Love this woman. Hilarious. And Kevin's dad is like offended and it's like, "Bro, you what do you deserved? Deserved.

:: 50:44

1 hour, 50 minutes, 44 seconds

Deserved." It also like obviously deserved him lighter fluid. Obviously, that was like an amazing like character moment because Kevin's dad is like so well known in

:: 50:52

1 hour, 50 minutes, 52 seconds

this town, but has never been to the Bare Skin and doesn't know that they only serve one kind of whiskey there.

:: 50:56

1 hour, 50 minutes, 56 seconds

And like he Ramon obviously like doesn't respect him. Tails is like doesn't care.

:: 51:01

1 hour, 51 minutes, 1 second

He's just happy. Yeah. Like he's along for the ride. Um and it like it kind of like shows the separation here, but it's such a funny

:: 51:09

1 hour, 51 minutes, 9 seconds

moment um with Ramona. I love her so much. Um there's a lot of great like female side characters. Yeah. That I am

:: 51:18

1 hour, 51 minutes, 18 seconds

in love with. Like um Kira's Kira's co-orker, Unnamed. Love her to death.

:: 51:24

1 hour, 51 minutes, 24 seconds

Uh Ramona. She's like not really a side character.

:: 51:27

1 hour, 51 minutes, 27 seconds

Hands down my favorite character in this novel.

:: 51:29

1 hour, 51 minutes, 29 seconds

Baller. Love her. Um like I just Yeah, there are so many great characters.

:: 51:35

1 hour, 51 minutes, 35 seconds

Every time Ramona was was involved, I was like, "Yes, queen. Get him.

:: 51:40

1 hour, 51 minutes, 40 seconds

You tell him. Yes, girl." I want to throw out there as well this sort of like uh the the actual like game play. Um

:: 51:49

1 hour, 51 minutes, 49 seconds

there's a line that I have highlighted about I mean Benji is a very like physical player. Yeah.

:: 51:54

1 hour, 51 minutes, 54 seconds

Uh there's there's a bar that I love. A bar. A bar. He was spitting. This was a bar. It's cuz the word crossbar isn't here.

:: 52:03

1 hour, 52 minutes, 3 seconds

Um there's a line that I I absolutely like just I had to read it like five times cuz I was like this is so [ __ ] this is so like dumb hockey player.

:: 52:13

1 hour, 52 minutes, 13 seconds

Yeah.

:: 52:13

1 hour, 52 minutes, 13 seconds

Um when the puck flies into the goal, Benji isn't far behind it and the crossbar hits him across the neck. You couldn't have gotten him to admit that it hurt

:: 52:22

1 hour, 52 minutes, 22 seconds

even if it had been a medieval broadsword.

:: 52:24

1 hour, 52 minutes, 24 seconds

And I'm like, that's so Look, this is so like extreme sportscoded that

:: 52:31

1 hour, 52 minutes, 31 seconds

like I can't even When I was a kid, I grew up playing softball. Mhm.

:: 52:37

1 hour, 52 minutes, 37 seconds

I got hit on the head, like very obviously on the head with a ball. And I

:: 52:44

1 hour, 52 minutes, 44 seconds

cried not because it hurt, but because they pulled me from the game to put me on concussion watch. And I was so upset that I couldn't play the rest of the

:: 52:52

1 hour, 52 minutes, 52 seconds

game. Have I told you? Have I told you my volleyball story that is exactly this? Because I feel like you told me this story and I probably in turn told you my volleyball story which was that I

:: 53:01

1 hour, 53 minutes, 1 second

broke my ankle playing volleyball. Uh I went up for a block, came back down and some girls on the other side fell under the net which obviously like they

:: 53:08

1 hour, 53 minutes, 8 seconds

crossed the line there so it was their foul but I fell onto like onto the pile of them broke my ankle and then they rolled off onto my ankle so like crushed

:: 53:17

1 hour, 53 minutes, 17 seconds

my leg basically. I got up and obviously in the front row when you're blocking you have to do a lot of jumping and so I

:: 53:25

1 hour, 53 minutes, 25 seconds

like was jumping and it hurt so bad I couldn't keep blocking and I was like okay there's like something definitely wrong. I kept playing. I played the

:: 53:33

1 hour, 53 minutes, 33 seconds

round out which is 20 like I don't remember exactly where in the round we were. A volleyball game is 25 points. I played the round out on a broken ankle.

:: 53:43

1 hour, 53 minutes, 43 seconds

Um, and I like they took me off um after the well I I it's been so long that I played

:: 53:51

1 hour, 53 minutes, 51 seconds

after this I like stopped playing volleyball obviously. Um but I like came off and they didn't let me play for the

:: 53:58

1 hour, 53 minutes, 58 seconds

rest of it and I also cried because I was like I'm not going to get to play in this tournament anymore because I've hurt my back my ankle so badly. Um, and

:: 54:06

1 hour, 54 minutes, 6 seconds

it was like it was like I don't remember what game this was, but it was like a pretty important one. I don't think it

:: 54:14

1 hour, 54 minutes, 14 seconds

was the semi-finals. I think it was like the round before the semi-finals. Um, but I remember being like, oh my god, like I'm not going to get to play. And just like crying on the bench about it

:: 54:22

1 hour, 54 minutes, 22 seconds

and they were like, "Do you want like the ambulance?" And I was like, "Oh, I'm not crying cuz it hurts. I just want to put me in, coach. I can still play." Yeah.

:: 54:30

1 hour, 54 minutes, 30 seconds

And even like the broken ankle thing is funny cuz Benji plays on a broken foot.

:: 54:33

1 hour, 54 minutes, 33 seconds

On a broken foot. Yo. Yeah. And my you know what? You know what? My mom's not going to like this. I hope she doesn't like watch this. I don't I don't like I

:: 54:41

1 hour, 54 minutes, 41 seconds

don't hate you for this or anything, Mom, but my mom made me walk on it for a week after. Wow.

:: 54:45

1 hour, 54 minutes, 45 seconds

Um a broken ankle for a week after. And it was only when I was like sobbing in bed um because I had to do like some kind of sweeping chore that she was

:: 54:53

1 hour, 54 minutes, 53 seconds

like, "Oh, maybe the doctor might be in order." Um, but I'm sure like every kid who was a little like played sports a

:: 55:01

1 hour, 55 minutes, 1 second

little too seriously has like a story like this where you come off if you if you even played I mean I played house league but I was so

:: 55:08

1 hour, 55 minutes, 8 seconds

unbelievably competitive that I was like this is war. Yeah. It's over. My life is over now. Yeah. Yeah.

:: 55:15

1 hour, 55 minutes, 15 seconds

Um and it happened more than once.

:: 55:18

1 hour, 55 minutes, 18 seconds

There were multiple times where I got put on concussion watch and I never had a concussion but I was still like they pulled me on the game because that's

:: 55:25

1 hour, 55 minutes, 25 seconds

what they're you know that you're playing with kids like you have to you have to put them on concussion watch. So like I was but I was pissed. I was like

:: 55:33

1 hour, 55 minutes, 33 seconds

this is a stupid role. I'm fine. I know what day it is. I can name the president. I can name the president.

:: 55:41

1 hour, 55 minutes, 41 seconds

So yeah. Um but yeah.

:: 55:45

1 hour, 55 minutes, 45 seconds

Yeah. Uh there's a clip of of Austin Matthews that that line reminded me of where he has like a split lip from going face first into the the crossbar.

:: 55:56

1 hour, 55 minutes, 56 seconds

Yeah.

:: 55:57

1 hour, 55 minutes, 57 seconds

And uh and the I don't know what the journalist asked him, but he responds with, "Yeah, man. I saw that crossbar

:: 56:05

1 hour, 56 minutes, 5 seconds

and thought, you know what? I'm going to put my face right through it. If I find that clip, I'm going to put it in here and see how accurate I was." But that's

:: 56:14

1 hour, 56 minutes, 14 seconds

the gist of it. And he's saying this with like a like a swollen face.

:: 56:18

1 hour, 56 minutes, 18 seconds

Yeah, I know. I saw the crossbar and I just decided, you know, I think it'd be a great idea if I just put my face right through it and see what happens. So, great question.

:: 56:26

1 hour, 56 minutes, 26 seconds

I love sports interviews when the guys come off and they're like clearly still like not recovered from the match and they're like, "So, what do you think

:: 56:33

1 hour, 56 minutes, 33 seconds

about this?" And they're like, "I'm not even here. I'm not even here. My face in the crossbar." Like I love those are

:: 56:40

1 hour, 56 minutes, 40 seconds

like my favorite videos of sports is after when they're like clearly still shaken up from whatever they're riding a high still they're coming down. Love

:: 56:49

1 hour, 56 minutes, 49 seconds

that. I used to do impressions of that as a kid. Um I would like do the sports interview impressions. Yeah, man. You know, you just got to like put pucks in

:: 56:57

1 hour, 56 minutes, 57 seconds

deep and pucks in deep.

:: 57:00

1 hour, 57 minutes

Skate hard and pass pass. So good. So good. Pugs and deep.

:: 57:09

1 hour, 57 minutes, 9 seconds

Pucks and deep. Pugs in deep.

:: 57:13

1 hour, 57 minutes, 13 seconds

Um on the on the novel, any like final comments?

:: 57:17

1 hour, 57 minutes, 17 seconds

I saw this incredible one-st star review on Goodreads um that just read one one single word, unbearable.

:: 57:29

1 hour, 57 minutes, 29 seconds

And you know, some of this novel was some of this book was unbearable to read in the best way possible. Um, so for me, unbearable, but with five stars.

:: 57:41

1 hour, 57 minutes, 41 seconds

Stay deep. Stay deep. Stay deep.