Transcripts
All right.
Speaker:Hey everyone.
Speaker:Welcome back to another
Speaker:episode of Demand Gen Chat.
Speaker:I am your host Kaylee Edmondson.
Speaker:And today we are joined with
Speaker:Sydney Sloan, CMO at SalesLoft.
Speaker:Welcome.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Thank you for having me.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Great to be here.
Speaker:I [inaudible 00:00:13] pre
Speaker:chat, this is gonna be fun.
Speaker:Let's start by just setting
Speaker:the stage at SalesLoft.
Speaker:You've been there for a few years,
Speaker:what is SalesLoft and what pain are
Speaker:you guys, um, solving in the market?
Speaker:So SalesLoft, uh, started out as a
Speaker:platform for SDRs to prospect, um, where
Speaker:they were able to organize the council
Speaker:they were going after, um, orchestrate
Speaker:all the different channels that you
Speaker:need to use in order to be successful.
Speaker:We know that, uh, three or more
Speaker:channels gives you the best results
Speaker:in terms of number of engagement
Speaker:an- and certain number of touches
Speaker:over, uh, a period of time.
Speaker:And so it just really organized all
Speaker:the tasks for SDRs and salespeople
Speaker:to drive prospecting efforts.
Speaker:In the three years that I've been
Speaker:here, we've evolved from just
Speaker:serving the SDRs and sellers for
Speaker:prospecting to also, um, record calls.
Speaker:So conversation intelligence.
Speaker:So for coaching capabilities, for
Speaker:taking snippets of your calls with
Speaker:your, um, with your customers and, and
Speaker:using them in your sal- sales cycles.
Speaker:And then last year we introduced a product
Speaker:called Deals, which allows you to do a
Speaker:better job of managing your opportunities.
Speaker:Kind of think of when sales managers
Speaker:are meeting with their sales teams
Speaker:going, "Okay, what's in pipeline?
Speaker:Show me your deals?"
Speaker:Like we've, we've added that.
Speaker:So we're the most complete
Speaker:sales engagement platform in the
Speaker:market right now incorporating
Speaker:all those capa- capabilities
Speaker:and serving sellers everywhere.
Speaker:And like primary titles or like
Speaker:VPs of sales, VPs of like SDR
Speaker:managers, things of that nature?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:SDR teams, sales teams,
Speaker:inside sales teams.
Speaker:I mean, frankly, you know, COVID as tough
Speaker:as it was really did accelerate the whole
Speaker:industry of sales to become digital-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... sellers.
Speaker:So we're seeing new companies
Speaker:way outside of our ICP.
Speaker:So it's not just for tech i-
Speaker:inside sales teams anymore.
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:It's, you know, sellers everywhere
Speaker:that are looking for new ways to
Speaker:be able to host conversations with
Speaker:their customers, to be able to
Speaker:communicate to them effectively.
Speaker:And then we're unique in that
Speaker:we cover that whole spans.
Speaker:We're able to capture that data and
Speaker:give a lot of insights into teams it's
Speaker:like where you should be focusing your
Speaker:effort, what deals are at risk, um, who
Speaker:are you maybe not contacting yet within
Speaker:the account that's a primary buyer type?
Speaker:So we're able to provide a lot
Speaker:more of those insights 'cause we're
Speaker:capturing every interaction between
Speaker:from prospecting to all the way of
Speaker:customer lifetime around that account.
Speaker:So just bringing that much more
Speaker:information to the sales teams
Speaker:about the interactions between
Speaker:the customers and their teams.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's incredible.
Speaker:And so you've been there
Speaker:since 2018 and obviously-
Speaker:Three years.
Speaker:... [crosstalk 00:02:47].
Speaker:It's my three year lock
Speaker:[inaudible 00:02:48] this month.
Speaker:I know it's crazy [laughing].
Speaker:Oh my gosh.
Speaker:Congrats, congrats.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So-
Speaker:Thank you [crosstalk 00:02:51].
Speaker:... in three years you've seen, I feel
Speaker:like a lifetime of change at SalesLoft.
Speaker:Can you just set the stage for what your
Speaker:marketing team looks like when you first
Speaker:joined, um, and what it looks like today?
Speaker:Gosh, it's, um, it's evolved so much and
Speaker:yeah, we've, I think I was employee maybe
Speaker:300 or 275, more up to 600 and, um, just
Speaker:crossing, uh, 100 million in revenue.
Speaker:It's been a crazy, crazy ride.
Speaker:Um, when I started what I can recall
Speaker:and I have to really think back is, um,
Speaker:you know, we had product marketing, we
Speaker:had an events team, um, demand gen, we
Speaker:were running account based strategies.
Speaker:Um, SDRs were not in our team yet.
Speaker:Um, brand, and we had brand, brand
Speaker:and events was kind of a, a team.
Speaker:So I think there might've been 16
Speaker:people on the team at the time.
Speaker:And we were releasing
Speaker:features on a daily basis.
Speaker:Our product marketing team was just trying
Speaker:to keep up with the daily feature release.
Speaker:Um, and we put on really great events,
Speaker:rainmaker, everybody loved the events,
Speaker:but we weren't really well ingrained
Speaker:into the business at every level.
Speaker:Like how does marketing lead go to market?
Speaker:How does marketing partner
Speaker:across the business?
Speaker:Um, and not just be seen as the
Speaker:fun, you know, the fun team-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... that, that throws great
Speaker:events, which we still do.
Speaker:Um, but I, I feel like we're a much more
Speaker:strategic partner across the business.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:It's getting the marketing team more
Speaker:closely aligned with pipeline and revenue.
Speaker:Um, and that kind of changes
Speaker:the whole perception.
Speaker:A- and go to market strategy.
Speaker:Where, where should we go?
Speaker:How should we go?
Speaker:When should we go?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, exa, absolutely.
Speaker:And so as you guys have grown in terms
Speaker:of revenue and customer base, what
Speaker:are some of the changes that you've
Speaker:made along this timeline, um, in terms
Speaker:of go to market or in terms of like
Speaker:marketing headcount or marketing s, team
Speaker:structure so that your team is enabled-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... to serve the rest of the
Speaker:teams cross-functionally?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, we've made continuous changes.
Speaker:When you're growing this fast everybody
Speaker:has to get used to and embrace change.
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:If, if someone's not good with
Speaker:change there, then, uh, you know,
Speaker:this may not be the right place
Speaker:'cause it changes so quickly.
Speaker:O- our joke is like, if you didn't
Speaker:like where your seat was, don't worry,
Speaker:it's gonna move, you know, it's gonna
Speaker:[laughing] move in a couple months.
Speaker:Um, now that's different,
Speaker:but it's also true really.
Speaker:Um, but, um, the...
Speaker:I think the kind of the first changes
Speaker:we made was more of an investment in
Speaker:product marketing and really trying
Speaker:to get, um, ahead of the feature,
Speaker:competitive feature release war and
Speaker:like what strategically is right based
Speaker:on the market opportunity ahead of us.
Speaker:And that's really what informed us
Speaker:going to a multi-product offering
Speaker:and building products that support
Speaker:the sellers in addition to the SDRs.
Speaker:Um, so that was the first thing.
Speaker:And when you take on more products, you
Speaker:need more product marketing support and
Speaker:the pricing and packaging strategies
Speaker:that create a differentiation and that...
Speaker:So that was the first thing.
Speaker:The second, um, part
Speaker:was, um, we brought...
Speaker:And this happened, um, will be, we're
Speaker:about a year and a half ago, we brought
Speaker:the inbound team into marketing and
Speaker:has really invested in streamlining
Speaker:the processes between marketing inbound
Speaker:and converting to opportunities.
Speaker:And what I love about that is that it
Speaker:creates more accountability for us to
Speaker:our portion of the pipeline generation.
Speaker:And so, you know, yes we're
Speaker:partnering with the product and
Speaker:sales teams and go to market.
Speaker:Now we're doing our part in terms of
Speaker:having direct impact on pipeline creation
Speaker:and revenue where I can say here's
Speaker:how much marketing sourced, here's how
Speaker:much pipeline we touched, um, which has
Speaker:contributed attribution and influence.
Speaker:Um, and here's how much business
Speaker:closed one in the quarter
Speaker:that was sourced by marketing.
Speaker:And it's a significant portion.
Speaker:So when you can start to point
Speaker:to that, then you can justify
Speaker:an incremental investments.
Speaker:And so incremental investments now are
Speaker:doing a lot more in brand-building.
Speaker:Um, as the market gets, you
Speaker:know, it's crazy, it's growing-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... like mad and they're more competitors
Speaker:than ever, and while we are a leader,
Speaker:we wanna maintain that leadership,
Speaker:especially as new people are looking
Speaker:into what they need to, um, invest in.
Speaker:And so maintaining that leadership and
Speaker:brand awareness is super important.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think you've hit on something
Speaker:that's super interesting for me.
Speaker:So I'm gonna go off script and just
Speaker:ask a follow-up question, um, around
Speaker:brand, how do you as a leader, um, break
Speaker:out your validation like to your CFO
Speaker:or your board, or whoever around how
Speaker:many, what percentage of your marketing
Speaker:dollars are gonna go towards performance
Speaker:marketing, things that are typically
Speaker:much more trackable, versus things that
Speaker:are gonna go towards brand, which we
Speaker:all know is super important and viable
Speaker:for your business, but is more long
Speaker:tail in terms of return versus some of
Speaker:those performance marketing tactics?
Speaker:Like what's your rationale, um,
Speaker:or your validation, or is it
Speaker:just more of like a, you have to
Speaker:trust me, I know this is right?
Speaker:Um, no, I, there's, I mean, credibility
Speaker:over the three years that's been
Speaker:built up with my CEO and the team
Speaker:and finance in that we invest wisely.
Speaker:And so-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... you know, that- that's just a track
Speaker:record of over time that we built out
Speaker:that we, we don't spend foolishly, you
Speaker:know, we, we show return on investment.
Speaker:We always are...
Speaker:My, my goal is to always
Speaker:be 1% over my budget.
Speaker:Like I want us to spend just a little
Speaker:bit more, so we really do, you know, try
Speaker:and drive as much awareness and demand as
Speaker:possible, given the budgets that we have.
Speaker:Um, and we've tracked on that.
Speaker:Like, you know, I'm somebody
Speaker:that balances, you know...
Speaker:I only have one credit card, I
Speaker:pay it off every month, you know?
Speaker:I think you can look at [laughing],
Speaker:you know, like how well people manage
Speaker:their personal funds 'cause that's
Speaker:how I think about the company's,
Speaker:um, investment in marketing.
Speaker:Uh, so to answer the question
Speaker:specifically about brand versus demand
Speaker:center, demand spend or performance
Speaker:marketing, um, once, once we got the
Speaker:metrics and kind of infrastructure
Speaker:proven as to, um, being able to convert
Speaker:investments to, to pipeline, um, looking
Speaker:at that and saying, "I- I'm gonna go
Speaker:invest this much in brand it's..."
Speaker:First of all, it's time,
Speaker:we're a different company.
Speaker:And, um, we need to show up differently
Speaker:in the market than the company
Speaker:we were over the last 10 years.
Speaker:Company's 10 years old.
Speaker:And, um, and so we, you know, we
Speaker:need to be the company of the future
Speaker:that's global, that's trusted.
Speaker:And, um, and so how, um...
Speaker:You know, where do we wanna show
Speaker:up and how do we wanna show up?
Speaker:And so that's one part.
Speaker:The second part is, you know, I think
Speaker:there's a couple other companies out
Speaker:there that are doing a really good job
Speaker:in brand, and our company can see that.
Speaker:And-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... and so you see the conversion
Speaker:ratios, the awareness of these other
Speaker:companies that are doing a good job.
Speaker:Um, and so you, you know, give a shout
Speaker:out to competitors that are, that are
Speaker:doing a good job, and like, we need to
Speaker:continue to compete there and not just
Speaker:rely on what we've always been known for.
Speaker:Um, and so changing brand perception
Speaker:and market perception is an investment.
Speaker:And it's not a call to action of click.
Speaker:It's a call to action of awareness.
Speaker:And so that's how, how we
Speaker:measure that is in our reach.
Speaker:So what number of
Speaker:impressions are we driving?
Speaker:How do we see organic increasing
Speaker:on the website traffic?
Speaker:Um, and, and then look
Speaker:at down the line the...
Speaker:It should be an expected decrease
Speaker:in demand gen conversion, um,
Speaker:when the brand perception goes up.
Speaker:And, and we also measure share of
Speaker:voice and everything like that.
Speaker:So, um, that's what we're expecting.
Speaker:And, you know, we'll turn on a little
Speaker:bit, and if it works we'll turn on a
Speaker:little bit more and, and just continue-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... to, uh, fuel as we see
Speaker:value come through it.
Speaker:Yeah, no, that's wonderful.
Speaker:And then I wanna [crosstalk 00:10:41]-
Speaker:Does that make sense too, like, I know I-
Speaker:... no.
Speaker:... I tend to long-wind the answer
Speaker:and I'm in my brain, so hopefully
Speaker:that makes sense as I shared that.
Speaker:Yeah, no, I think it totally does.
Speaker:And it's, for me, it's just always
Speaker:a very, um, it's very topical.
Speaker:Um, and I feel like I talk about it
Speaker:a ton in my own personal network of
Speaker:friends that are kind of doing this same
Speaker:effort, um, around a go-to-market role
Speaker:or a demand gen role within their orgs.
Speaker:Um, and for me personally, let me
Speaker:share a little bit about myself,
Speaker:but I, um, I have a background
Speaker:in pure performance marketing.
Speaker:Um, so I have just always been
Speaker:the numbers girl, and I always
Speaker:like to tie everything back very
Speaker:attributable to revenue or to pipeline.
Speaker:Um, and so it's a little bit harder.
Speaker:It's more of a feeling, right?
Speaker:It's more of a feeling for brand motions.
Speaker:It's very different for me, um, to think
Speaker:about how to prove value with brand
Speaker:money versus performance marketing money.
Speaker:Um, and it's just something that's like
Speaker:less two plus two equals four, right?
Speaker:It's kind of how I have-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:... my, uh, my marketing
Speaker:career has gone at least.
Speaker:And so brand dollars and brand spend
Speaker:is a new motion for me personally.
Speaker:Um, and it's less, it's
Speaker:just less trackable, right?
Speaker:And obviously that's the world we're
Speaker:moving into with this post cookie world
Speaker:anyways, is a less trackable world.
Speaker:So I feel like, uh, taking off
Speaker:the training wheels and moving
Speaker:with like a brand play is
Speaker:obviously pivotal and important.
Speaker:Um, for us like building a performance
Speaker:marketing foundation came first.
Speaker:Um, and so now, like, as we
Speaker:start to evolve into more of a
Speaker:brand play, it's just interesting
Speaker:to see how others perceive it.
Speaker:And then especially how you have those
Speaker:internal marketing communications with
Speaker:your own marketing team, by your sales
Speaker:org, your CFO, your CEO, et cetera.
Speaker:Um, because I think everybody, everybody
Speaker:moves about it quite differently.
Speaker:Um, so like if you have the dollars
Speaker:to do these larger studies, um, around
Speaker:share of voice and audience perception
Speaker:and all of those things, and it's, you
Speaker:know, that's a thing that you have to
Speaker:point back to to say, yes, um, this is
Speaker:w, this is working, these dollars we're
Speaker:spending are moving the needle, but if
Speaker:you're trying to ease into brand marketing
Speaker:and don't have enough money to like,
Speaker:you know, invest in a large study or a
Speaker:research firm or whatever it is to kind of
Speaker:prove that, th- the dollars are a little
Speaker:bit harder to drive to revenue, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think the question is at
Speaker:what point in time does it
Speaker:make sense to invest in brand?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And three years ago when I got here,
Speaker:I felt like it was a brand play.
Speaker:Uh, we, we weren't differentiated and then
Speaker:it was like, this market's gonna go fast.
Speaker:So we, we do need to make it-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... a brand play.
Speaker:And so of course thought leadership
Speaker:is, you know, paramount to brand.
Speaker:And, um, and, and, and so
Speaker:you can play that part.
Speaker:I think the other thing that you
Speaker:can do is you could pick a channel.
Speaker:So maybe not investing in all channels,
Speaker:but what is the primary channel
Speaker:that your, your audience lives in?
Speaker:And so for us that's LinkedIn.
Speaker:And so, you know, could we double
Speaker:down on LinkedIn and then maybe not
Speaker:do other investments in other areas.
Speaker:We held back a long time in doing
Speaker:display and retargeting and all of that.
Speaker:Um, it just financially was like,
Speaker:you know, we're just going to double
Speaker:down and in LinkedIn and try and
Speaker:really build our presence there.
Speaker:Um, and I think too, um, I
Speaker:mean, it's just, yo- you got
Speaker:to take each step, right?
Speaker:Like-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... building brand and lots of brand
Speaker:awareness if you don't have...
Speaker:If you have a leaky bucket or you
Speaker:don't have your process in place-
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:... of how you're gonna convert leads, you
Speaker:know, like you got to fix that before
Speaker:you put more water in, in the top of the
Speaker:funnel or leads in the top of the funnel.
Speaker:And so, you know, you just kind
Speaker:of have to step into it I think.
Speaker:Um, and yeah, um, I'm lucky that
Speaker:I, you know, lucky by, by design
Speaker:built a really strong relationship
Speaker:with our finance team and built out
Speaker:a business case that made sense.
Speaker:We, we treated, it was ki- kind of fun
Speaker:and we treated it like a, um, Shark Tank.
Speaker:We came in-
Speaker:I was gonna say yeah.
Speaker:... we were like, "We want this level of
Speaker:investment for, you know, return of this."
Speaker:And we had all the data to back it up.
Speaker:And so while it's a brand investment,
Speaker:I'm confident that we'll be able to
Speaker:return what we said we were going to
Speaker:be able to, and probably even more, um-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... just based on the history that
Speaker:we have in our advertising spend.
Speaker:Um, and like I said, like, you know,
Speaker:if it's working we'll continue to
Speaker:invest more and more when it works.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:And I like your, I like your motion
Speaker:of spending 1% more on budget too.
Speaker:I think that's a good takeaway.
Speaker:I've just never heard anyone
Speaker:say it, but I really like it.
Speaker:And talk a little bit more
Speaker:about your business model.
Speaker:You'll have a double funnel
Speaker:business model, correct?
Speaker:We do.
Speaker:So when we, um, segmented our sales teams
Speaker:into enterprise and commercial, that
Speaker:changed the way that we were thinking
Speaker:about supporting the sales organization.
Speaker:So I'd like to like line up our teams
Speaker:with sales, like here's the marketing
Speaker:team that's gonna support the enterprise
Speaker:team, and here's the marketing motions
Speaker:that are gonna support commercial.
Speaker:So commercial is primarily
Speaker:where our inbound, um, comes in.
Speaker:And so that is how much automation
Speaker:can we get in predictable lead
Speaker:volume or predictable opportunity
Speaker:volume, 'cause it's not about leads.
Speaker:We don't actually track leads.
Speaker:We just track opportunities created.
Speaker:Um, and so, you know, how can we get that
Speaker:predictable so the team can count on it?
Speaker:To the point where the head of commercial
Speaker:in a meeting with the sales leadership
Speaker:last week when he got asked the
Speaker:question, where would you invest more?
Speaker:He said in marketing.
Speaker:Like that's music to my ears, um-
Speaker:That's wonderful.
Speaker:... because that means that
Speaker:he's counting on us, right?
Speaker:He's counting on us and we're
Speaker:able to deliver for him.
Speaker:So fantastic.
Speaker:On the...
Speaker:So tha- that's a traditional funnel model.
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:A- And so it's like,
Speaker:what are we putting in?
Speaker:How are the conversions running?
Speaker:How do we increase conversions?
Speaker:What's the velocity?
Speaker:All of that.
Speaker:With enterprise, we're running
Speaker:an account based strategy.
Speaker:So it's completely different.
Speaker:We have our top 150 global accounts.
Speaker:We have account like our field marketers
Speaker:are now called enterprise marketers
Speaker:which is really account based marketing.
Speaker:And they line up to, um, the sales teams
Speaker:and we run, you know, for tier ones,
Speaker:we run customized programs and, you
Speaker:know, running out of running custom ads.
Speaker:Um, and I think the thing that's
Speaker:still a little bit different is,
Speaker:you know, leveraging the intent data
Speaker:and the account-based platforms.
Speaker:So it's like, yes, we're working
Speaker:proactively the tier one accounts,
Speaker:and then how do we still also manage
Speaker:opportunistically the enterprises-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... that are showing intent, um,
Speaker:and still action on those.
Speaker:So there's still a little fluidity
Speaker:there which is really interesting
Speaker:to see because we have that much
Speaker:transparency a- av- available to us now.
Speaker:So it's like, "Yeah, we've got 150
Speaker:accounts but these accounts are
Speaker:surging so we gotta work on those too."
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:Um, and then just getting
Speaker:our ratios, right?
Speaker:With managing the SDRs and working with
Speaker:the SDR teams on target accounts, and then
Speaker:also doing account-based programs in COVID
Speaker:world which ha- has its own challenges.
Speaker:So it's, you know-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:... it's a different world and it's a
Speaker:different motion and it's a different
Speaker:reporting structure and it's a different
Speaker:funnel and, um, different technology.
Speaker:So-
Speaker:[crosstalk 00:17:42] gonna say [crosstalk
Speaker:00:17:42] different [crosstalk 00:17:42].
Speaker:... um, so they run, they run separately.
Speaker:[crosstalk 00:17:44]
Speaker:your enterprise motion.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's different.
Speaker:And can you talk a little bit
Speaker:about how you've combated, uh, go
Speaker:to market motion for ABM in COVID?
Speaker:'Cause it's definitely different than...
Speaker:Obviously A- ABM is
Speaker:also defined different.
Speaker:Maybe we should start, ABM is defined
Speaker:different [laughing] depending
Speaker:on who you [inaudible 00:17:59].
Speaker:So do you wanna give your
Speaker:quick like 30 second spiel on
Speaker:how you guys interpret ABM?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, I think account
Speaker:based is a reflection of
Speaker:go-to-market market strategy.
Speaker:So, um, you know, we work and we
Speaker:bring data to the table, to the
Speaker:sales leaders and collaborate on
Speaker:what it means to be a tier one
Speaker:account, who should be on the list.
Speaker:We, we refresh it quarterly.
Speaker:Um, and the-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... and we bring all the data.
Speaker:It's like, you know, here's
Speaker:what fit technographic like
Speaker:engagement, all the, all the things.
Speaker:And, and then we go through the list
Speaker:together and like, "Okay, this is
Speaker:the account list we're working after,
Speaker:and some have already converted."
Speaker:And so, um, basically we have
Speaker:the prospect account list.
Speaker:Then we have our customers who
Speaker:are also tier one accounts that
Speaker:we wanna continue to invest in.
Speaker:And we, I mean, we moved more
Speaker:to digital to start, right?
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:And just doing more custom
Speaker:ads and making sure that we're
Speaker:warming up the accounts first.
Speaker:Um, and then getting creative with
Speaker:programs, go live events, um, and-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... you know, making sure that we
Speaker:celebrate with the, the customer
Speaker:because they're not in office either.
Speaker:So how can we create opportunities for
Speaker:customers to get together and celebrate?
Speaker:Um, lots of, you know, lots of wine
Speaker:tastings, lots of cooking classes.
Speaker:Um, we've done golf, like, uh, VIP
Speaker:things with famous people, um, around
Speaker:the master's program and bringing in
Speaker:tier one accounts to those, 'cause of
Speaker:course what you, what you want, you
Speaker:wanna have these events, you wanna
Speaker:have some customers and some prospects,
Speaker:you wanna sit back and let them talk.
Speaker:So the more-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... opportunities that we can create to
Speaker:create that environment, um, we will do.
Speaker:It's a little bit-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:... different too.
Speaker:We also have, um, our
Speaker:[EMEA 00:19:39] team.
Speaker:And so we run, uh, uh, even a
Speaker:different program in EMEA 'cause
Speaker:it's, it's still so new over there.
Speaker:Um, and so really we have three different
Speaker:strategies and three different sales teams
Speaker:that we're supporting in different ways.
Speaker:And as a result your marketing
Speaker:team is structured in those
Speaker:three different tiers as well?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:So there's like-
Speaker:Nice.
Speaker:... our demand gen, there's a demand gen
Speaker:team that's really just looking at the,
Speaker:um, partnering with, um, on inbound
Speaker:and partnering with the sales teams.
Speaker:And then there's a dedicated
Speaker:enterprise marketing team, and then
Speaker:there's, uh, MEO leader as well.
Speaker:So those three sep- separate groups.
Speaker:Interesting.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:I'm just super...
Speaker:I'm, I'm always very interested
Speaker:to see how you've scaled and then
Speaker:as a result how those tiers are
Speaker:functioning within marketing.
Speaker:And of course, if you guys have
Speaker:really like three tiers that
Speaker:you're trying to support, like
Speaker:how does that break down look?
Speaker:Um, but then if like all of
Speaker:that has to roll back up to you,
Speaker:so like, how are you managing-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:... your time and your day, and like
Speaker:making sure that everybody's-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:... getting the support they need
Speaker:is just super interesting to me.
Speaker:I, I think too, it's like, what's
Speaker:interesting personally to me, right?
Speaker:Like I wanna be involved
Speaker:in customer activities.
Speaker:And so running the cab and being
Speaker:an executive sponsor of our cab
Speaker:program that our customer marketing
Speaker:team facilitates is super important.
Speaker:I have these firsthand conversations
Speaker:and relationships with our
Speaker:most important customers.
Speaker:That's, that's important to me,
Speaker:um, to be able to facilitate that.
Speaker:Um, as well as references
Speaker:and customer stories.
Speaker:I mean, I really do believe that, um,
Speaker:uh, you know, being a head of marketing
Speaker:means you're also the customer...
Speaker:You know, head of, head of customers.
Speaker:Um, and so have those, having those
Speaker:insights and stories is super important.
Speaker:And then partnering with the
Speaker:customer success team, because we
Speaker:know in SAS like that growth and,
Speaker:and retention is so important.
Speaker:So that puts us in line with
Speaker:that part of the business.
Speaker:Product marketing-
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:... keeps us in alignment with sales
Speaker:enablement and product, right?
Speaker:Like that in- intersection between that.
Speaker:Um, and now we've actually got a, a part
Speaker:of our product marketing team that's
Speaker:supporting our post-sales experience
Speaker:because that's also part of, of growth.
Speaker:Um, and, and helping, you know, trademark
Speaker:and brand certain methodologies.
Speaker:And, and that will help us scale.
Speaker:Um, and then, you know, maybe I'm
Speaker:a marketing nerd and geek too.
Speaker:What does your alignment look
Speaker:like though between you and
Speaker:your customer success leader?
Speaker:Um, because I feel like that is
Speaker:not often talked about, right?
Speaker:Everybody talks about marketing
Speaker:and sales alignment, um, but
Speaker:hardly anyone talks about marketing
Speaker:and customer success alignment.
Speaker:Um, a- and I think that's like
Speaker:very important point for us
Speaker:to highlight for listeners.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So we have a chief revenue officer who
Speaker:has, um, sales and customer success.
Speaker:So my primary alignment is with him, but-
Speaker:Interesting.
Speaker:.. the gentleman that's running
Speaker:customer success now, uh, another
Speaker:lady as we, we continue to segment
Speaker:out as the company grows, like
Speaker:I have, I have calls with them.
Speaker:I have a biweekly call with a head
Speaker:of customer extents, eh, success.
Speaker:And, and then my customer marketer
Speaker:is aligned with, um, the, the
Speaker:customer success team on programs.
Speaker:Um, but I mean, I still
Speaker:talk to her all the time.
Speaker:I go to churn meetings, like,
Speaker:you know, wherever I can help
Speaker:in the business, I'm happy to.
Speaker:Um, and I, you know, I think when you
Speaker:do the term analysis of adding new
Speaker:products to the portfolio, and then
Speaker:it's like, well, how many sellers are
Speaker:still in accounts that we don't have?
Speaker:Like, there's just so much
Speaker:room still in our customer-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... in our customer base.
Speaker:Um, so we have to make them wild...
Speaker:So I have a mantra that I love, um,
Speaker:as it relates to customers which
Speaker:is smart, happy customers buy more.
Speaker:And I've used that since I ran
Speaker:customer marketing two companies ago.
Speaker:And the idea is that once they
Speaker:become customers you don't,
Speaker:you stop selling to them.
Speaker:You just need to educate them.
Speaker:It's all about learning.
Speaker:And so first you have to learn and then
Speaker:you have to make sure they're happy.
Speaker:So you have to look their adoption
Speaker:statistics and NPS and all
Speaker:those things like which we do in
Speaker:voice of the customer programs.
Speaker:And then they will buy more.
Speaker:You can't go at like, "Hey customer..."
Speaker:I've had this happen to me.
Speaker:"Hey, it's the end of my quarter,
Speaker:do you wanna buy something else?"
Speaker:I'm like, are, "No."
Speaker:Like, "No [laughing], I don't, I'll let
Speaker:you know when I wanna buy something else."
Speaker:But, you know, that hope and a dream
Speaker:like, oh, maybe they'll just buy more
Speaker:;cause it's my end a quarter and I can
Speaker:make you a deal like that doesn't work.
Speaker:So we have to change the way
Speaker:that we communicate to customers.
Speaker:It's all about education.
Speaker:It's all about education, frankly, the
Speaker:whole time, but, but you have to talk
Speaker:to them differently and you have to do
Speaker:different programs just for customers.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's interesting.
Speaker:And I think too like rolling, um,
Speaker:customer marketing, obviously in,
Speaker:and then creating that alignment
Speaker:that, you know, just closing the
Speaker:loop quickly, the feedback loop, I
Speaker:think, is what gets lost sometimes.
Speaker:Um, so that everybody that's on the
Speaker:front lines within customer success,
Speaker:your CSMs, your s, even your support
Speaker:that are getting that immediate feedback
Speaker:can close the loop quickly back over
Speaker:to your team, um, for programs, future
Speaker:programs, learnings on programs that
Speaker:are running right now, et cetera.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Um, I think it's just an
Speaker:interesting thing to highlight.
Speaker:I, I don't hear people-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:... talk about it often.
Speaker:So it's interesting that you guys
Speaker:are already thinking about it
Speaker:and have, uh, a great framework.
Speaker:So we've three people in
Speaker:customer marketing, which,
Speaker:you know, for the company our
Speaker:size, but they were in the cab-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:... they run a reference program,
Speaker:the new customer stories or
Speaker:user groups like they're busy.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Shout out [laughing],
Speaker:shout out to that team.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Um, yeah, no, that's super interesting.
Speaker:I, I just love hearing like how, how
Speaker:you've set all that up internally.
Speaker:Um, and then especially like
Speaker:supporting this double funnel, eh,
Speaker:kind of having a commercial side
Speaker:and an enterprise side, you said
Speaker:that happened like a year ago or so?
Speaker:Year and a half I wanna say.
Speaker:So we, we segmented...
Speaker:You know, it's gonna be...
Speaker:Well it's a year and a half.
Speaker:Yeah, we created an enterprise sales
Speaker:team and a commercial sales team.
Speaker:And when that happened, we, we
Speaker:lined up marketing to support those.
Speaker:And that, that was the point that it
Speaker:made sense to start a double funnel.
Speaker:So we report differently.
Speaker:[crosstalk 00:25:18].
Speaker:We have different dashboards for each one.
Speaker:Um, you know, 'cause the...
Speaker:Everything about it is different, right?
Speaker:The, the, um-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... the velocity of a deal in commercial
Speaker:is much quicker than the velocity, that
Speaker:coverage ratios of pipeline are different.
Speaker:Like the, the go to market motion
Speaker:is more outbound versus inbound.
Speaker:Even though we do have inbounds
Speaker:that come for enterprise,
Speaker:it's not the primary motion.
Speaker:So-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... partnering with those sales leaders
Speaker:and setting up the programs and
Speaker:relationships is completely different.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And as you're starting to do that
Speaker:initial research to f, you know, kind
Speaker:of chisel away at this wheel that you're
Speaker:creating, what were some of your first
Speaker:like low-hanging fruit actions that
Speaker:you knew you needed to do in partnering
Speaker:with the sales team to figure out what
Speaker:that go to market needed to look like?
Speaker:Where are these people hanging out?
Speaker:What do they respond to?
Speaker:What do they not respond to?
Speaker:Like, I feel like the differences would
Speaker:be pretty absolute between the commercial
Speaker:business that you were already running
Speaker:versus trying to figure out how to go
Speaker:to market for an enterprise motion.
Speaker:Um, so the, the low hanging fruit that
Speaker:we did and we, we already were running
Speaker:account-based, but we were running it at
Speaker:a very [laughing], not like 150 accounts.
Speaker:So the first thing that we did was we
Speaker:ran a, um, tier one account project.
Speaker:And so-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... partnering with the sales leaders, their
Speaker:leaders on two things, one was, ho,
Speaker:what is our account selection criteria?
Speaker:We've refreshed it.
Speaker:We had tier one, we've been talking
Speaker:account-based for a long time, but it
Speaker:included a lot of our commercial accounts.
Speaker:And so we really looked at it as it-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... related to enterprise.
Speaker:And then we, um, we took the customer
Speaker:journey and we said, what is the
Speaker:responsibility, and kind of service
Speaker:level agreements from each team as
Speaker:the customer moves through their
Speaker:journey that they should expect?
Speaker:So what does marketing
Speaker:do for tier one accounts?
Speaker:And so it changed like, you know,
Speaker:here's how, here's the things we,
Speaker:account planning support, um, our
Speaker:one-to-one ads and investing more
Speaker:in tier one accounts than other
Speaker:accounts in terms of ad frequency, um-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... different things in investments that we
Speaker:would give the SDR team to be able to do.
Speaker:So spending more on door opener
Speaker:programs than we give to the, um,
Speaker:the commercial team, for instance.
Speaker:So just spending a lot more
Speaker:one-on-one time, like thinking
Speaker:through of like creative ways to break
Speaker:through to these accounts as well.
Speaker:Um, that- that's kind of
Speaker:the SLA that marketing did.
Speaker:And then sales said, "Okay, here's the
Speaker:sales experience we're gonna give them,
Speaker:they're gonna get a different level..."
Speaker:I'm not gonna say all the things,
Speaker:'cause I don't wanna give away your
Speaker:secrets, but they are gonna get
Speaker:a different sales experience in
Speaker:terms of all the interactions that
Speaker:the sales teams will go through.
Speaker:So it's a different sales process.
Speaker:It has more to do-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... because frankly in the
Speaker:commercial they don't have time.
Speaker:They don't need to.
Speaker:Like they can skip these three steps
Speaker:'cause the, the philosophy and the,
Speaker:the deal is just so much faster
Speaker:and there's less people involved.
Speaker:And then we have, what does it mean to
Speaker:be a acc, a tier one account post one?
Speaker:And so we created the agreement of that.
Speaker:And so there's lots of things that
Speaker:our tier one accounts we'll get
Speaker:in terms of, um, uh, di- direct
Speaker:ac- account owner assignments, uh,
Speaker:strategic account services, special...
Speaker:You know, it's like being a diamond member
Speaker:on Delta, you know [laughing], like a
Speaker:special phone number to call, like, you
Speaker:know [laughing], um, uh, they, you know,
Speaker:they get [inaudible 00:28:27] of our
Speaker:favorite, uh, packages is Kyle, Our CEO
Speaker:has a Tangerine farm in Orlando or sorry,
Speaker:just outside of Orlando where he lives.
Speaker:And so we, we send oranges to
Speaker:everybody during orange season
Speaker:that's on the tier one account list.
Speaker:So they get extra special things from
Speaker:us as being part of our, our family.
Speaker:No way.
Speaker:That's so funny.
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:Um-
Speaker:And blueberries.
Speaker:So there's orange seeds, there's
Speaker:tangerines, which are really good.
Speaker:Um, and 'cause I, you know, I had to
Speaker:be the test for the mailing to make
Speaker:sure it looked okay, juicy crunch-
Speaker:... of course.
Speaker:... and then, and then he does
Speaker:blueberries in, in April.
Speaker:And of course I had to, you know, bake
Speaker:the example of the recipe that we gave.
Speaker:But I mean, those, I mean,
Speaker:those things matter, right?
Speaker:Like it's, we, we want our
Speaker:customer to feel like they're
Speaker:part of the SalesLoft family.
Speaker:And so, you know-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... we, we try to make it personal.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I don't know how much more
Speaker:personal you can get then from
Speaker:your CEO's backyard [laughing]?
Speaker:Blueberries from his farm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, I love it.
Speaker:[crosstalk 00:29:20].
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Last question.
Speaker:What are some plays that are in
Speaker:motion right now, or that you have
Speaker:currently played, um, that are really
Speaker:moving the needle for your business?
Speaker:I think the thing that we've done the
Speaker:best this year is really working with
Speaker:our sales teams on the cross sell, uh,
Speaker:sell programs to our existing accounts.
Speaker:Um, and, eh, a little bit of it had to do
Speaker:with changing the compensation models that
Speaker:made it more of an incentive for the, um-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... account managers to do that and,
Speaker:and staying in the account longer,
Speaker:which I think was a really good call.
Speaker:You wanna eliminate as many handoffs
Speaker:as you possibly can and continue
Speaker:to grow those relationships.
Speaker:And frankly the, our customers
Speaker:rely on them for advice.
Speaker:So I think, you know, that wasn't
Speaker:necessarily a marketing m- move.
Speaker:It was a marketing support, um-
Speaker:Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Speaker:... in, in doing that.
Speaker:But I think, you know, making sure that
Speaker:you've removed all the barriers to allow
Speaker:it still to be the right investment of
Speaker:the seller's time, um, to continue to work
Speaker:with the accounts was the biggest impact.
Speaker:That, and then I don't know, I, you know,
Speaker:I wish I could tell you what happened, but
Speaker:like our inbound is going off the chart.
Speaker:And I think that's just a m, a
Speaker:mat, a matter of the market, right?
Speaker:The market is just growing so
Speaker:fast and there's so many players.
Speaker:And as long as we maintain our number
Speaker:one position as the most loved brand
Speaker:in sales engagement, then we're gonna
Speaker:get those inbounds when people think
Speaker:of, "Oh, I need something like this."
Speaker:And so continuing our investments in
Speaker:brand and being sure that we're, you
Speaker:know, getting the [G2 00:30:47] crowd
Speaker:reviews that where our customers say
Speaker:how much they like working with us
Speaker:and how we making them successful and
Speaker:continue to be number one there, like
Speaker:that gets, that gets the inbound.
Speaker:And so we're just gonna keep doing that,
Speaker:making sure our customers are successful-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:... given them opportunity to tell others.
Speaker:And then hopefully more
Speaker:people will come to us.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Word of mouth is the most powerful
Speaker:thing and the most untrackable thing.
Speaker:So, that's just part of the game, right?
Speaker:You can do a referral.
Speaker:Um, you can do a referring link.
Speaker:When I buy it's normally like, "Hey,
Speaker:let me text my group of buddies and
Speaker:say like, "Hey, this is our problem.
Speaker:What are you using?"
Speaker:And they text me back,
Speaker:whatever it is and great."
Speaker:Then I'm on their website
Speaker:and I'm buying their product.
Speaker:So, um, yeah-
Speaker:True, yeah it is-
Speaker:... like referrals are great too.
Speaker:They do help.
Speaker:... word of mouth is most...
Speaker:We, we just, we just hired a new,
Speaker:uh, performance marketing agency.
Speaker:And I was asking, uh, the guy that
Speaker:was leading, Michael, the guy that
Speaker:was leading the [inaudible 00:31:33],
Speaker:I'm like, "So how did we find them?"
Speaker:And he's like, "I went on to G2.
Speaker:They were the number one ranked."
Speaker:And I'm like, "Well,
Speaker:there you go [laughing]."
Speaker:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker:[crosstalk 00:31:38] [laughing].
Speaker:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker:It's really hard for me sometimes, but
Speaker:like yeah, getting out of marketing
Speaker:mode and just going into buyer
Speaker:mode, like how do I buy software?
Speaker:I normally always buy it for my friends.
Speaker:So it just goes to say that like, yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, same.
Speaker:And I'm in many slack groups and
Speaker:you, the tech conversation is
Speaker:usually the most lively [laughing].
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:It's like the most, yeah, the mo-
Speaker:most popping channel that they have.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So same.
Speaker:Um, okay.
Speaker:Last question for real, for real, who is
Speaker:another marketer that you're following in
Speaker:the space that listeners can go follow,
Speaker:read their book, listen to et cetera?
Speaker:You know, John Miller, uh, eh,
Speaker:just released his new, um, guide.
Speaker:I, I read it this weekend.
Speaker:It's like 230 pages it's super fast.
Speaker:Um, you know, and I've been doing
Speaker:account based for years and I have to
Speaker:give a shout out to that book that,
Speaker:um, it was really comprehensive.
Speaker:And I, I think I took two pages of
Speaker:notes, like [crosstalk 00:32:33]-
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:... mentioned team, like, you know,
Speaker:look at this, look at that.
Speaker:So I, you know, I got, I
Speaker:followed John for a long time.
Speaker:You know, I'm, I'm, I'm fans of Demandbase
Speaker:and fans of [Sixth Sense 00:32:40].
Speaker:Like, I, I, I know I need to put them
Speaker:in the same breath, like many have to
Speaker:do with, uh, us and our competitor.
Speaker:Um, but I, that's the most recent
Speaker:thing that's my weekend read was
Speaker:his book and I thought it was great.
Speaker:Awesome.
Speaker:Okay, cool.
Speaker:We'll link to that in the show notes
Speaker:for anybody that's listening and then
Speaker:quick plug Sydney for people that want
Speaker:to follow you where can they follow you?
Speaker:I'm on LinkedIn.
Speaker:So at Sydney Sloan at LinkedIn.
Speaker:Um, I, I, I, you probably would
Speaker:be more [laughing] likely to get
Speaker:a response of a LinkedIn InMail
Speaker:than an email directly sent to me.
Speaker:So, [laughing] that's
Speaker:the best place to get me.
Speaker:Perfect.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:And for anybody that enjoyed
Speaker:this, please leave us a review.
Speaker:It is super helpful and we appreciate
