Hosts Shannon Kelly of the Jockey Club and Peter Thomas Fornatale from In the Money Media sit down with two special guests on a memorable edition of the show.

Christian Countzler of Stable Recovery and Will Walden, a Grade 1 winning trainer who is also an ambassador for the program, share their recovery experiences and talk about the special connection between humans and horses that's at the center of this amazing initiative that's helped so many people.

Foreign hello and welcome to another episode of the on the Lead podcast, a joint venture between in the Money media and the Jockey Club.

Peter Thomas Fornitel, back with you.

So happy to to be joined as ever by Shannon Kelly from the Jockey Club.

How are you, Shannon?

I am great, Pete.

We are coming down from a crazy Saratoga season.

We just got through Keeneland sales in this industry.

So I thought might be a good idea for us to do a podcast, take a deep breath and maybe talk about a topic that really centers itself in gratefulness.

Right.

And as corny as that might sound, I thought that stable recovery, which we'll jump right into it would be a great thing for us to talk about today and hopefully you feel the same.

Definitely.

This program I have loved the concept of been something I've been meaning to do something about in one form or another.

Given the Jockey Club support of stable recovery, it seemed perfect for this venue.

And we're going to have two great guests for you today.

Christian Counselor, who's the founder of this program along with Frank Taylor over at TaylorMade, who does so much good work in the community.

But then also Will Walden will not a graduate of the program.

His history in recovery has been well documented in other places.

We'll see how much of that he wants to touch on.

But he's sort of become the ambassador, if you will, to the industry and just one of the real success stories of how a life in racing can really help people who are looking to turn their lives around.

Absolutely.

And I think it's been interesting thing.

Right.

And I hope we touch on it a little bit in that one might think is that the industry for somebody to go into something that's so reliant on wins and losses.

But you know, in other conversations we've had on other topics on this podcast, we know how important is to many of the people that work with horses, the horse itself and what it brings to people's lives.

So I think what better way to help somebody come out on the other side into recovery than than working in this industry.

Well said, Shannon.

Very interested to see what both our guests have to say and we'll be back after this short musical interlude.

Next up, as promised, we've got a couple of special guests to talk about the stable recovery program.

I'm going to start off with with the program founder, Christian Counselor.

Christian, where did this idea come from?

I had been working in recovery for a number of years for a different organization where I came in contact with some folks in the horse industry through helping some family Members of theirs that needed some help.

I met Frank Taylor, and Frank Taylor is an idea guy.

As I was talking to him one day, he was kind of getting an update on a family member that we were helping.

He mentioned this idea for a school of horsemanship almost immediately, and.

And people probably think I'm making this up, but almost immediately thought, wow, that is an incredible idea.

My big thing in recovery was trying to find second chance employment for folks.

There were far too many places that were not doing a very good job of helping these men and women find purposeful jobs.

They.

They were getting jobs at, you know, fast food restaurants or at car washes or, you know, something like that.

You know, I found it in my own experience that it was really difficult to stay sober if you were waking up every day and made to do something that you didn't love, you know.

So when Frank mentioned the school of horsemanship, I thought, man, that is.

First of all, it was different.

Second of all, the purpose behind taking care of a thoroughbred every day is obvious.

I went home, and I think that night I started dreaming.

A housing program that you could build around the school of horsemanship.

And it took a little while and lots of zoom meetings, because this was during COVID to get everybody on board.

You know, In June of 22, we opened up our first house in Lexington.

We were hoping we'd have, you know, six or seven guys that would want to participate and actually do a good job.

Actually, on the first night that we opened, we had five guys move into the house, and all five guys moved out the next day.

And I thought, oh, maybe this wasn't such a great idea.

You know, it wasn't long after that, God kind of took over and we started getting the right men in the house.

It has absolutely exploded since then.

And we're helping almost 70 people on a daily basis now.

So it's been.

It's been phenomenal.

I'm going to bring in Will now, too.

And as a fellow child of a horse trainer, those early mornings and manure sacks and rakes and feed tubs and all of that, I mean, I guess one of the biggest things in recovery is probably structure.

So, Will, what would you say is the reason that working in horse racing is such a successful avenue for people coming into their recovery?

I think you said part of it.

The structure.

The job at Wendy's or Domino's provides structure, too, to a degree.

But I think in the horse industry, it is early mornings.

Oftentimes, there's not really a clock in, clock out.

You can Be there at odd hours, or you can be there at different hours each day.

It's not fully set.

So it.

It takes a different level of commitment.

But I think the biggest intangible would be the horse itself.

For me, and what I've seen with the guys is that being able to develop that bond, the bond with the horse, I think, comes first, and I think the discipline, the willingness to accept that discipline and that type of lifestyle comes second because of the relationship with the horse.

Does that make sense?

It does.

I've heard other people talk about how relating to horses every day, in some cases, is one of the first times in life they felt empathy.

They feel this connection to this other being that makes them want to be a different person than they were before.

I'll ask you what you just asked me.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does.

I can't tell you how every horse is going to react with every type of personality or every human.

And that's what makes it so special.

It's such an individual relationship.

They're just like, not every horse likes everybody.

I remember talking to the initial group of guys that started the school of horsemanship because I was working for.

It was in a different program.

We were all in a different program.

Christian was running that program, and they started the school of horsemanship.

Is.

They were kind of in a feeler stage.

This first group of guys, I was working for a drug testing agency doing tox screens.

I remember I sat down with all of them.

I just told them, I said, I can't tell you if it'll be on day one or day 90, but there will be a point where I know you don't know anything about horses, and I know you know you don't know anything about horses.

And maybe you don't want to know anything about horses.

But regardless of whether you do or not, there will be this connection, this bond formed at some point.

And it'll be one of the coolest things you ever experience where you end up locking eyes or that horse touches you with his nose or looks at you, it'll click.

You'll realize that horse accepts you for everything you are and everything you're not.

Accepts you for exactly where you are right now.

It'll be kind of overwhelming feeling.

And there were.

There were a few guys, actually, that came back over the next.

They didn't all come back on the same day.

They, you know, it was over a year, really, that each one of those guys came back.

They couldn't believe, thought I was making it up, or they just didn't really buy it be that impactful, but each one of them had that experience.

I think it's that.

That that is the driving force behind showing up every day.

Because you want to empower this animal to achieve what it can achieve, whether it be on the sales grounds or on a racetrack or in the breeding shed, whatever.

Whatever its job is on the farm, you know, you want to help take care of it and facilitate it.

Does it matter Will that you know that the horse needs you to.

They might be this beautiful, powerful, athletic individual, but they're counting on these humans.

Sure.

Absolutely.

It provides guys and girls with a sense of purpose.

Exactly what you just said.

Like, this horse is counting on him.

Something I'd like to add to that, that I get.

Get to see every single day.

The folks that are in rec recovery have lost people that want to count on them.

They have ruined these relationships due to their own actions, and they've lost trust and all of that kind of stuff.

So being able to put them in a barn with a horse, no matter the background, nothing like that, you know, all of a sudden, they're being counted on again.

And that is just a huge catalyst to enlarging the recovery.

And that, I think, is one of the crucial aspects of the horse in recovery is due to actions of their own.

You know, these people are untrustworthy, but all of a sudden, this animal trusts you to take care of it.

And I've.

I've seen it make all the difference in.

In somebody making it a little bit longer in their recovery.

So it's.

It.

That is a really awesome thing to be a part of.

Christian, I have a larger question about the program.

Obviously, it's designed for people who don't know about horses to learn about horses and be able to get that gainful employment.

But is there any way that you reach out within the program to people within the industry who need help as well?

Absolutely.

We've had several folks that have long histories in the.

In the industry that have come to stable recovery and found some success in their recovery.

They kind of have an unfair advantage because they already know the power of horse and stuff like that.

But I think that's one of the really special things for the industry is I got a phone call from a steward in New Mexico just the other night, and they're really struggling in finding a place that can help these individuals that may have, you know, failed a drug test or something like that.

This lady called and she's like, they're willing to send them all the way to Kentucky to get the help because it keeps them around the horse.

We obviously serve anybody that needs help.

We've had a fair percentage of people that have come to us, you know, their entire life had been in the horse industry or around the horse industry, one of which I'll name him, because he wouldn't mind, you know, Blaine Service, son of John Service, you know, he came here, he's training for Brad Cox right now.

This kid grew up in a barn, but having a place like Stable Recovery, which was comfortable to him, which was waking up and going to a barn, I think it's a huge benefit for folks or friends of folks that, that need help in the industry to be able to come out and come out to TaylorMade and do something they're to doing, but also be surrounded by other people like them that have struggled with the same things that they struggle with.

I think we'd like to hop into, because obviously we're a horse racing podcast and we have to ask you, Will, one thing that I've heard over and over in a lot of the interviews you've done, number one, starting your own stable, hiring a lot of the people that have come through the program.

And then we saw the unbelievable video of Bless the Broken, one of your success stories.

Can you tell us what it means, number one, to have a stable full of people who are coming out on the other side and then having a horse with a name that's meant so much and to go so far, it's.

Kind of funny how it all worked out.

I don't really know how to describe what it means or how it feels.

I just.

I struggle myself, honestly, taking time and appreciating.

I have such big goals and I'm always just running forward that I have a hard time really sitting and accepting and enjoying appreciating the present.

But that day in the Kentucky Oaks with Bless the Broken, with the following that she had following of fans and stuff that she had accrued through that whole lead up to the Kentucky Oaks.

Christian was there with me for the Oaks, but the most enjoyable memory I have with Blessed the broken was when 30 or 40 guys from stable Recovery came up to Turfway park for the Bourbonnette and got in the winner circle with her there.

Yeah, they all came up to Turfway park when she was in the the qualifying race.

She wasn't gonna get in the Kentucky Oaks unless she won that race.

And all these guys, they were all standing outside the winner circle after she crossed the wire.

They were all jumping up and down and most of These guys had never been to a horse race before, so they were all kind of giving me a high five as I was walking by, pumped up.

I was like, guys, you gotta get.

You guys got to get in the winter circle.

And these.

These guys, like, they didn't need.

They were standing right outside of it, but they all started running, like, different directions where it was or like what they were supposed to do.

And we got them all.

And by.

By the time it was all said and done, there was like 40 of them in there.

It's one of the coolest wind pictures I have.

I didn't have a lot of hope for a long time.

I was really apprehensive to let myself believe because I had failed at getting sober so many times.

I had a lot of apprehension to accepting the possibility that there was a life on the other end of sobriety or that there was a life to be lived other than the one I had experienced for the last 12 years.

There's so many other reasons than bless the broken that explained.

This journey we've been on has been a success.

It's the guys who have come through our barn.

It's guys like Mike Lowry and Tyler Maxwell and Josh Franks and just these guys who are.

Are going on to be pillars in the community, the horse racing community, farm managers guys were on the streets, on the streets with, like, never seen a horse before three years ago.

And these guys are helping run dynamic operations in the business.

It's just really cool.

It's so much more than just my little racing stable at Churchill Downs.

It's.

I had zero hope for such a long time.

It's so easy for me to see now being so far removed from it, the impact that not only the horses made, but the people that make up Stable Recovery now, all the hands that were behind me just pushing me slowly at my pace forward to break this vicious cycle that had come of my life for 12 years.

It's unbelievable.

I mean, you're describing that photo, and I'm seeing it as a symbol not only of how far you were able to come, Will, but what's possible for everybody when they commit to a program like Stable Recovery.

Let me ask you specifically about the name.

Was there something about this Philly that made you think this was the one you wanted to use this name on?

We, as horseplayers, we read a lot into names.

We say, oh, he named this one after his wife, so it's got to be a runner.

Sure.

And I'm really, really, really sorry to bum you out, but I did not name her.

It was the guy tried to name her after a Rascal Flat song, and Rascal Flats said, no, you cannot use our name.

So he shortened it.

So it turned out to be Bless the Broken.

It just turned out he gave it to a broken trainer.

It worked out.

That's actually a great story.

I love that song, too.

Shame on Rascal Flats.

That would have been great.

Bless the Bless the Broken Road is what she was supposed to be originally.

Named as the Jockey Club rep. We know that those trademark issues, they don't.

They don't always get approved.

And honestly, I think Bless the Broken is such a better name than Bless the Broken Road.

Anyways, it's amazing how that worked out.

I'm reading into the symbolism.

That wasn't necessarily.

To be honest, I think, to answer your question fully, I think God chose that name.

There you go.

That's it.

What's the latest with her?

She's back into training.

She's with me at Churchill Downs.

She ran in the Acorn up in Saratoga.

She had been going pretty hard at it every month through the whole Oaks Point system and the Kentucky Oaks itself, all the way to the Acorn In June, we decided to give her a little break and bring her back for a fall, winter, spring campaign.

I'm not going to divulge any secrets and let you know where we're pointing or anything like that.

We thought we were going to take care and take advantage of this vulnerable conversation, but okay.

She is doing very good.

I'm actually thinking about because of her performance at Turfway and Pedigree, and then some of her physical attributes actually point her towards grass in a comeback spot.

If grass is her preferred surface and she's accomplished what she's accomplished on the dirt, then I guess the ceiling's got to be pretty high for what she can accomplish on the grass.

Well, that's exciting.

I think one of the things you talked about, Will, when you were talking about Bless the Broken, was it's not just you and your stable, but it's the entire team behind the program.

Christian, we recently saw the big announcement of the breaking of ground for the group going to Keeneland.

The graduates going to Keeneland, you know, you have a lot of partners that are farms, breeding farms, on your website.

This is a big step with Keeneland.

What does this mean for the program and how it's expanding?

Well, what's more important is what does it mean for people in recovery?

Everybody worldwide knows who Keeneland is, and, you know, the fact that they have trusted us to Partner and provide purposeful jobs for our folks at their track is, I think, something that could possibly be repeated at other tracks, you know, throughout the country, which means we would be able to help even more people.

I can't say enough about that.

First and foremost, how honored we are to even be trusted to.

They gave us a house on their property.

We have eight guys living in that house.

All eight are working at Keeneland.

They just got through the September sale.

They're tired.

They're ramping up for October right now, and then right after that, we've got another sale.

So they're.

We're thrown into the frying pan pretty quick as far as work is related.

But that's a large part of what we do at Stable Recovery.

I tell folks all the time that this is not a recovery program, even though it's in the name.

This is a program to help you learn how to be successful.

I just had a meeting with our entire group Monday night.

Sobriety is not enough.

Everybody that comes to us has to stay sober.

If they don't stay sober, all bets are off anyway.

It stops right there.

What we're trying to teach here at Stable Recovery is how to become successful in sobriety.

With that, helping folks build a life that is not worth losing over a drink or a drug, which is a difficult thing to do.

Having partners like Keeneland, like Windstar, like Will, like Coolmore, like Godolphin, you know, and the list goes on.

I don't want to leave anybody out.

We're going to be at Juddmont next month.

The support this industry has shown people in recovery needs to be talked about.

It was a huge risk that Taylor May took first in allowing this population out.

The amount of trust they have shown us, the amount of opportunity they are providing for these men and women to again, not just become sober, but to find a career that they can support their family with.

I'll use Mike Lowry as an example.

You know, he's a guy that was on Will's race team from the very beginning.

You know, he's a farm manager at TaylorMade now.

And in my opinion, if we're going to break this path of addiction, this problem that the entire country has, but especially in Kentucky, you know, it starts in the home.

And because Mike's kids are now going to have a father that is present that they watch, wake up every single day and go work a difficult job that provides for them, that's how we're going to stop addiction.

Right?

It's not these little 30 and 60 day programs.

That kind of put a band aid on an open wound.

We're on to something here.

I think that this can change much more than just the horse industry.

I think this can change this generational addiction and this generational poverty that we're struck with here in Kentucky.

It's through partnerships like Keeneland that we're going to be able to do this.

This is going to change the lives of many people.

Let me.

Let me jump in there real quick.

I won't speak for Mike.

I'll speak for me.

But on the flip side of what Christian just said, and it works the same for Mike.

I'm sure if he were on here, he'd tell you the same thing.

But when I used to use substances and narcotics and alcohol, like, I wasn't really giving up much when I decided to put one in me, so to speak.

When I decided to stick a needle in my arm, it was basically a decision.

Am I going to fall asleep under this park bench or this park bench with no money in my pockets?

Yeah, maybe one cigarette left.

Now there's a huge motivation.

I have so much more to lose now.

I've got two beautiful little children and a beautiful wife and a job and a business that I love with people that I love for owners that I love with horses that I love.

The fuel behind my fire to stay on top of my recovery is so much greater because of what I stand to lose.

Does that make sense?

It's incredible.

So many of your answers will have me moved.

I was just gonna say, Pete, I'm like, I had to put myself on mute because I started to get kind of choked up.

And I know you didn't even do it on purpose, but there's just behind both of your voices, there's just so much passion and care and.

And hope that it's really.

It's a wonderful thing to hear.

Well, and that's what stable recovery is trying to provide you with.

It's trying to provide you with something to lose rather than just these empty pockets of this worthless life, of this dead end job of this family that doesn't want anything to do with me anymore.

You know what I mean?

It's trying to, like, reunite all that, to provide some extra motivation.

It's working.

Like you said, Mike Lowry is a great example.

I'm a great example.

There are countless others that are a great example that they really have to think hard when tempted nowadays, when something crops up in their life, whether it be a difficult situation or a triggering circumstance.

Three years ago, two years ago, six months ago wouldn't have thought twice because they had nothing to lose.

Now they have so much to lose.

Christian, maybe the most important question of all, someone in the sound of our voice is in a shaky situation.

What is the process for someone who wants to get involved in the program, who's ready to.

To reach out and try to turn things around?

We've been able to simplify that because it can be very difficult at times, especially somebody like Will had mentioned, you know, that that is literally sleeping under a park bench.

You can go to our website and there's literally a big tab right there in the middle that says get help.

And you click that, and that's going to send you straight to our intake coordinator.

And it's literally a short phone call.

Beyond that, you know, we will take it from there.

But, you know, the hardest thing is picking up that phone and asking for help.

But we've tried to simplify that as much as possible.

And I think I can speak for Will here.

There are literally people that walk over to Will's barn, wherever he's stable at that time, and say, hey, how do I get some help?

We were talking about how God might have played a hand in naming Bless the Broken.

But, you know, it is an obvious fact to me that God has had his hand over this entire program for quite some time.

Will and I's history together way back.

We've become great families, friends to this point.

I think back years ago when he was working at Wendy's and I was trying to run this little treatment center.

Neither one of us could have ever dreamed about where we would be five years from now.

You know, and the fact that we're both in position to live out lives that we couldn't have dreamed of and go on helping people, it is.

It is quite obvious to me that there is something that's had its hand over the top of stable recovery for quite some time.

And I had a chance to thank Will earlier.

Without him becoming successful in his recovery first, but then in life and him being this huge billboard for us, I don't know where stable recovery would be today.

And I love him dearly, and I am eternally grateful for the work that he put in to fixing himself and the work he continues to put in to help in stable recovery.

Well, I think you guys really were fantastic.

I from Florida, first article written about stable recovery.

I was locked in.

I just think what you guys do is amazing.

And I think as the resident fundraising person, I'm going to have to give you guys a shout.

Everyone needs to go to their website.

If it's not that you need help, but you want to support this amazing effort.

You guys have donate buttons all over that website.

You have a golf tournament coming up.

And I think if you're in the Kentucky area and you really want to make a difference, supporting what you all do should be top of mind because you all are changing lives every day.

And we're really thankful for what you guys do.

Thank you for that, Shannon.

And thank you to the Jockey Club.

They've been a big supporter already and that allows us to keep our doors open and continue helping people.

I know I've said this before to you, Shannon, but I feel like this episode has really captured something special.

What a privilege it is to be able to talk about Stable Recovery with Christian and with Will.

Great to hear them share their stories and hopefully as we help spread the news about this program out to the world, we can play a small part in helping people as well.

Yeah, I mean, I think this topic is going to hit a lot of people.

Everyone is touched by addiction or someone with addiction in some way.

It is a difficult topic and we wanted to do it in a way that wasn't just the sadness of it, but the hope of it.

Right.

And Stable's doing that every day.

Working at the safety net.

I think we see people who are in need.

This is a different kind of need.

And they're doing just such an amazing job.

We talked a little bit about how you can support their initiatives.

I really recommend everybody doing that.

In the bio of this episode, we will put their website, but it's stablerecovery.net I would really love everyone to follow them on social media, get involved in some way.

It's an amazing program.

Christian, the entire team at Stable Recovery and at TaylorMade and will being their ambassador now.

It's really just such an unbelievable thing.

I was brought to a lot of emotion.

I don't know about you.

Oh, definitely.

I don't know how you can hear the story of Will's journey and the journey of the other people in the program and not be moved to some degree.

We will put it in the notes as you said.

But stablerecovery.net maybe we'll put the socials in there as well.

You can follow them, you can support them, you can give them money.

You can volunteer.

You can help somebody who maybe you know in your life who needs help to get into this program or a program like it.

Thanks so much to the Taylors and to Christian and to Will for creating this program and to Christian and Will for sharing their story with us today.

I agree, Pete.

It's always a pleasure that's going to.

Do it for this edition of the show.

Shannon, appreciate you as ever.

This was a great idea and great timing, I think, as we take a deep breath, as you said, up top.

But don't hold it too long because we got the Breeders cup coming right down.

No time like the present, right?

Horse racing, we roll right through, make.

Hay while the sun shines and all that.

Thank you so much for listening.

Can't wait to be back with another episode.

I'm not sure when we'll sneak that in, but it'll be sooner rather than later, I think.

Until then, for Shannon Kelly, I'm Peter Thomas Fornitel, and we'll see you next time.