In this episode of The Smart ADHD Podcast, I chat with executive function coach Monica Hassall about practical strategies for managing ADHD by tapping into our body's natural neurochemicals. We explore how integrating simple habits can complement traditional ADHD treatments, helping you feel more in control and focused.  

🔗 Read / Listen more: https://smartadhd.me/35 

Monica brings a wealth of knowledge to the table, having been an EF coach since 2012. She shares her insights on using nutrition, hydration, sleep, exercise, and even humour to enhance your brain's performance. You’ll discover how these practices can elevate your dopamine and cortisol levels, creating a more conducive environment for focus and mental well-being. Trust me, you won't want to miss these actionable tips! 

🎙️ In this episode: 

00:00 Introduction to Internal Pharmacy 

00:39 Welcome and Guest Introduction 

01:19 Overview of the Episode 

01:49 Host's Personal ADHD Journey 

02:39 Guest's Background and Expertise 

03:08 Recap of Previous Episode 

04:02 Understanding Internal Pharmacy 

05:09 Neurochemicals and ADHD 

06:15 Case Study: Dopamine and Daily Life 

07:13 Self-Medication and ADHD 

08:59 Role of Neurotransmitters 

17:19 Importance of Sleep and Nutrition 

18:25 Breath Work and Mindfulness 

19:08 Social Connection and Humour 

19:51 Practical Tips for Daily Life 

30:55 Final Thoughts and Conclusion 

🕺More about Monica Hassall. 

Monica is an EF Coach, since 2012. She works with her clients incorporating insights and practices from an array of sources, in creative and practical ways. Sources include the most current Neuroscience, Traditional wisdoms, Mindfulness and Coaching Principles. Her work has been published in ADDitude and Attention Magazine. 

Connect with Monica: 

Website: https://www.connectadhd.com 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/monica-hassall-connect 

What's your biggest challenge in navigating ADHD as a smart creative? Share your thoughts in the comments section below, and don't forget to subscribe and leave a review! 

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🎤 About the Smart ADHD Podcast 

The Smart ADHD Podcast is for smart creatives, entrepreneurs, and business owners who are navigating life with ADHD. We celebrate unique brilliance, whether we're intelligent, exceptionally talented, or both. Ian Anderson Gray interviews experts to uncover the real story of ADHD for smart creatives, busting myths and discovering effective strategies to improve our lives, unleash our creativity, and grow. 

🔗 Find out more at https://smartadhd.me/

—---------------------------- 

🕺More about Ian Anderson Gray 

Ian is the host of the Smart ADHD Podcast and a live-streaming video coach and consultant. He helps business owners and entrepreneurs broadcast live confidently, communicate better, and set up the right gear and tools. Ian runs Seriously Social, a business aimed at helping others be more productive and level up their impact online. He's also a professional singer, web developer, and an international speaker. Ian lives near Manchester in the UK with his family. 

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🤗 Connect with Ian 

Website: https://iag.me/ 

X/Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/iagdotme 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/ianandersongray 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianandersongray/ 

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iagdotme 

Threads: https://threads.net/@ianandersongray  

My exercise is my cornerstone habit because I sleep I drink water while

I'm on it I do mindfulness I do breath work I look at things I'm grateful for

I get early sunshine I've ticked off most of the things off the internal

pharmacy and it's not even 7am yet We can be in charge of our own body and

brain chemistry someone with ADHD can't prescribe themselves medication from

an external pharmacy but they can take more notice of their internal pharmacy

and the sort of behaviours that can improve our body and brain chemistry

Start with one element focus on maybe nutrition hydration is the top having

regular well planned meals having three colors of nutrients different colored

veggies protein is really important for people with ADHD because it's a protein

it's a building blocker for dopamine

hello and welcome back to smart ADHD.

Today we're focusing beyond ADHD medication and onto how to

unlock your internal pharmacy.

It's great to be joined again by the amazing Monica Hassall.

She's an executive function coach from Brisbane in Australia, who's

been helping clients since 2012 by blending neuroscience, mindfulness,

and practical coaching strategies.

Monica's work has been featured in ADDitude and Attention magazine,

and today she's here to share how understanding your brain's natural

neurochemicals like dopamine and cortisol and your internal pharmacy, we'll

come onto that in a little bit, can help you manage ADHD more effectively.

In this episode we covered a little bit of neurochemistry, but not too

nerdy, and then we explored how sleep, nutrition, exercise, mindfulness,

and even humour can play a huge role in improving your daily life.

I think it's time to get on with it right now.

Hello, I'm Ian Anderson Gray, and this is the smart ADHD podcast.

Now if you're a smart, creative entrepreneur or business owner

navigating your life with ADHD, This is the podcast for you.

Now, I'm no ADHD expert, but I'm eager to share my story on what I've learned

by talking with experts, as well as digging into the personal ADHD stories of

successful creatives and entrepreneurs.

I was diagnosed at age 46, and it answered so many questions in my life.

But of course, that was in many ways, only the start of my journey.

So let's learn together.

Smart stories, smart strategies, smart ADHD.

Hello, Monica.

Welcome back to Smart ADHD.

You're back for more.

I have in, yep, can't, can't keep away.

Well, thank you so much.

Uh, you're, you're dialing in from Australia.

I think, I believe it's Brisbane, Australia,

Brisbane, Australia,

a beautiful city.

I, I mean, it's a long time since I went last when it was in the 90s, and I'm

sure it has changed a lot since then.

In fact, I think it's grown quite a bit, hasn't

has, it's a great place, yeah.

Wouldn't live anywhere else.

Yeah, I'd love to.

I'd love to come back to Australia.

It's been too long.

But today we saw last episode that you were on, you were going through your

concept of the ADHD volcano, which helped us understand, what's happening on the

surface, what's happening underneath, why these things are happening.

We talked a lot about executive function, the seven core elements

of that, which I found fascinating.

If you're watching or listening, you haven't listened to that episode.

Do go back and watch that because I think that's going to be really helpful

for this episode where we're talking about our internal pharmacy and So I

met you in person last month at the international ADHD conference in anaheim,

which was amazing and you did a talk on this on your internal pharmacy now It

wasn't actually probably aimed at me.

It was aimed at like proper professionals, but I Found it.

I found it fascinating because you were really going into a

What's happening in our brains and what we can do to help, ADHD.

So, my first question to you is, like, what is our internal pharmacy

and how does this relate to ADHD?

Well, we have our own body and brain chemistry.

So, let's go back to people with ADHD.

When people have ADHD and they get a diagnosis, they make the, you

know, most likely being diagnosed, uh, prescribes a medication.

And medications are really great for brain chemistry.

Not everyone, you know, opts to have, medications.

Medications help about 80 to 90 percent of people, but it doesn't help everyone.

Now, the thing is, that's what I refer to as the external pharmacy.

And having coached a lot of people over the last 10 years or so, I noticed that

some people weren't using their external pharmacy that well, and they probably

weren't using their internal pharmacy very well either because of the way that

ADHD can impact people's performance.

And by that, I mean.

Um, people have their own body and brain chemistry that they have agency over.

We can be in charge of our own body and brain chemistry.

Someone with ADHD can't prescribe themselves medication from an external

pharmacy, but they can take more notice of their internal pharmacy

and the sort of behaviours that can improve our body and brain chemistry.

Yeah, that's, that's fascinating.

So we're talking about, I suppose, neurochemicals, what,

what's happening in our brains.

, we've covered, uh, medication on the show before.

We've had experts on to talk about that.

That's a whole other topic, and I know people will have different experiences

with this, different views on this.

Just to say briefly, for me, when I was diagnosed with ADHD, I had loads of

kind of, I don't know, stigmas, issues with the idea of having medication.

So I avoided that experience.

For for a time and then but now I'm using that and it's been a game changer

for me, but I have realized that and people have said this to me before

medication is only it's not the answer.

It is.

It is maybe part of the solution, but there's all these other things

that we can talk about this coaching.

There's there's there's obviously exercise and sleep and all those kind

of things, but also understanding what's happening in our brains as well.

So if you're interested to know more about medication, medication, medication.

Do go back and listen and watch those episodes.

We've got a couple of episodes on that.

So ? How is this different?

Are on medication that engaging with internal pharmacy is probably going

to make their medications work better.

Okay,

Yeah, so for example, before I'd come up with this internal pharmacy

concept, I was coaching a young man one time, and he was 23 years of age.

And he was saying, oh, I'm really tired at work, and I

thought, what's your sleep like?

He said, oh, I go to sleep at two or three in the morning because I've

been gaming, and I have to get up at six o'clock for work, so I just take

extra medications in the morning.

He was on stimulants.

He would take more than what he was prescribed.

Um, which, um, One is not what they're for, and two isn't good for you, and

three, he actually would run out of his script and he wouldn't be able

to access more medication because he'd, he'd overdosed himself, you

know, in the previous few weeks.

So he no longer had medication when he needed it.

And I figured out, well, he's not using his body and brain chemistry to make

his brain work as best as it can be.

So the external pharmacy can be great, but sometimes people don't

use it the right way either.

And there's a little saying in ADHD land that medications can help you focus,

but not necessarily what to focus on.

Now that's it.

That's interesting.

So the, the, the other thing that just, just, just struck me.

So I don't know what you think about this, but you mentioned in the last episode

in the volcano about self medication and a lot of these things are not good.

So for some people that could be drinking, drinking too much alcohol,

um, smoking drugs, or there's probably other things that that's because we,

we may maybe have a low dopamine level.

Uh, and we'll talk a bit more about that because I'm sure there's a lot

of misconceptions about dopamine, but.

Those can be areas.

I don't know whether you'd call those external or maybe we're

using our internal pharmacy in a bad way What's your view on that?

How does that come into it?

Well, I think if, um, the neurochemical or neurotransmitter

dopamine is about pursuit.

So if it doesn't have enough, um, it's hard to focus on anything.

So people will, um, that people don't like to be bored.

Typically, people that age, they hate being bored, so they will

sensation seek, maybe, or do something that's going to help them focus.

So, watching a screen will help them focus.

Having some alcohol, you know, sometimes people will look for illicit

substances to calm down a busy brain.

You know, so, um, I had an example of one fellow one time, and , We were

talking about dangerous behaviours, and he said, yeah, I would ride

my bicycle down a set of stairs.

And I said, oh, why would you do that for?

Because I was quite surprised.

And he said, oh, it's the only way I can really focus on something.

Like, he just was really wanting focus.

So, that's where that sensation thickening happens.

It's bizarre.

I

think people ADHD

will think will be confused about this And the other thing I found about

medication like why would you know, particularly with stimulant medication?

Why we're taking stimulants?

Calm you down, but or equally like why would why was cycling

down the stairs calm you down?

I mean, that's enough to stress most people out Hmm.

like I said, people that actually have different ways of showing it and

different needs and different pursuits.

But I guess, you know, the thing about stimulant medication is what

it actually does, uh, I don't know if people have spoken about this, it, it

helps more dopamine become available.

Its mode of action is to, to block up reuptake pumps.

So more dopamine gets passed to the other neuron.

It is, you know, between two neurons, uh, there's a gap and what, um,

medications don't give you more dopamine.

Yeah.

Stimulants don't give you more dopamine.

They make your own naturally occurring dopamine more available to you.

So when you have more dopamine available, then, then the messages can get passed.

You can focus on things that you need to.

Yeah, that that's a that's an

a big concept, it's a big concept, so it just makes

dopamine more available to you.

So you can focus.

Yeah.

Yeah, and that's that's that's And so that's where medication can really help.

So before we, we get into the neurochemistry stuff, which I'm really

wanting to do, is it all in our brain?

Is this, you know, because I, this is what I think, you know, you've mentioned

like neurons and what's happening in the brain is how about the rest of the body?

You know, we've presumably all of these, like, I don't know, it's

dopamine going around and our bodies

well there is

primarily our brain?

Yeah, there is dopamine in other parts of our body, as there is

serotonin in other parts of our body.

And I'm not a, you know, a biochemist, but I know it is not just in the brain.

But also things like cortisol, when we're under stress, is released from the

kidneys, and that message, that hormone travels to the brain to release dopamine.

get the brain to do its job to, you know, the heart to heart

beat faster, breathe faster.

So you can fuel your arms and limbs for fight, flight, or freeze.

So it is body and brain.

There is a connection there.

Um, and ADHD is primarily connect, you know, it's about the

fueling to the prefrontal cortex.

So you can have that, that, uh, concentration and you can have those, uh,

have the executive function switched on so you can make those complex choices.

So it's about dopamine availability in the brain, but we have

it in other areas as well.

You know, so if we get nervous about something, that serotonin, um, you know,

in, in the gut can, can be out of balance.

For example, we get that sort of butterflies in our tummy

or, you know, things like that.

So it's in other areas, but when we're thinking about ADHD, we're thinking about

fueling to the, to the prefrontal cortex.

Yeah.

No, that, that makes sense.

So I loved, I'm going to say it now.

I loved chemistry.

I loved science at school.

I did it, you know, uh, up until the end of school, but I know that not

everyone is that interested in chemistry.

Do we really need to know all this neurochemistry stuff?

Uh, you know, how does knowing about this actually help us with ADHD?

Well, I've got a good case study that I talk about when

I do my internal pharmacy talk, and it's, it's about a couple.

And the male in the story, he's being driven by dopamine because he wants to

get to football training after a busy day at work, but his partner has had a

lovely day and she's, she's all chill and she's having a cocoa and she's

really driven by serotonin and oxytocin.

So there, uh, there's a great book called The Molecule of More.

And he talks about the here and now chemicals, which is the oxytocin,

serotonin, the here and now stuff, but as opposed to the dopamine,

which is more about driving.

You know, dopamine is about pursuit.

So you really focus on something outside of your body, whereas

you're, you know, Oxytocin being here and now and being calm.

So it's really a great thing to be able to know, well, what am I being driven by?

Or what is my partner being driven by if we're in a situation together

where we're not kind of connecting?

So, you know, our brain and body chemistry rules our behaviour.

Oxytocin

definitely.

So, uh, i'm not really sure how to ask the next question It's all kind of jumbled

up because I suppose the so i was going to ask you You know, what are the stock

items in our internal pharmacy, but I think It would be maybe good to understand

like what are our neurotransmitters, if that's the right word.

So we, you've mentioned already a few, you know, you've, you've mentioned there's

dopamine, there's serotonin, there's like oxytocin, uh, there's adrenaline,

there's cortisol, there's like, Now, so I know some of those on neurotransmitters,

maybe some of them aren't, but can you try and kind of help with, with all of

a neurotransmitter is a chemical that, that transmits, uh, messages.

Um, sometimes, they're neuromodulators, so something like dopamine can

modulate the amount of brain chemical going from one brain cell to another.

And hormones are a bit different again.

So, The neurochemicals are all in the brain, in between neurons, so

that's an easy way to remember it.

But hormones might be from one part of the body and getting released and have

an effect somewhere much further away than the gap between two brain cells.

So, yeah, that's where hormones are different.

Sometimes these chemicals are hormones and neurotransmitters.

So,

so it's probably easier just to say chemicals, neurochemicals, and then, but

some of them, some of them are hormones, some of them, on neurotransmitters.

So we've mentioned a few.

Um, I know this is probably a bit is putting you on the spot here, a bit

of a challenge, but like, can you help us to understand the roles of

the main ones when it comes to ADHD?

Um, and, and then we're going to go into the internal pharmacy.

Yeah.

I guess, you know, dopamine and, and adrenaline, those sort of things,

they can help us with our focus.

Things like oxytocin and serotonin can be more calming chemicals.

Um, we need serotonin to be a building block for melatonin, for example,

which helps us get to sleep at night.

So, a big challenge here for, particularly for women with, uh, perimenopause and

menopause, they have lower estrogen, and estrogen travels with serotonin and

dopamine, so it's hard to think straight.

It's also hard to sleep.

So we need serotonin as a building block for other things as well.

So there's a whole lot of cascade of, of chemicals happening

in this body that we have.

And if we can understand a little bit about them, um, that's going

to help us have better performance.

So, for example, cortisol.

We need cortisol to help us wake up in the morning.

So it balances with melatonin.

Overnight melatonin, we have more melatonin so we can be asleep.

We need cortisol to be released in the morning so we wake up.

But cortisol is also released in high levels if we get stressed.

So that's released from the kidneys and that, you know, has a cascade of

effect to our brain to wake up, turn on the dopamine and adrenaline to,

you know, fight, flight, or freeze.

So it's a great idea to sort of understand, well, you know, You know,

particularly if you're talking about being vigilant, yes I need cortisol to wake up.

I don't need flooded in my body, the constant cascade of

being stressful all the time.

Yeah, that's, that's really interesting.

So I, I trained as a professional singer and I remember being on stage

and that feeling of like, I mean, I'm singing in front of lots of people.

There's an audience, there's, there's an orchestra, a choir behind me.

And what's going through my head is why did I say yes to this?

Why am I here?

I'm starting to panic.

And so I've kind of started to understand, you know, there's,

there's adrenaline, there's cortisol.

But in my mind, what I've, I've always tried to do is to turn that nervousness,

that I don't know whether I'd call it fear, but maybe it is fear, Into

excitement and that has always helped me then focus and do my best job when

I've actually been in that state.

I've done my best job when I've been too chilled out.

That's when I've given my worst performances.

So I think there's obviously something going on neurochemically there,

I think we, it's good, good to have some.

anxiousness around something that's important to us because it kind of shows

we care because it's going to make us more alert so and be more focused on what

we can do so I think that's a great way of looking I often speak to my clients

how do we turn sort of you know have frustration or fear or nervousness about

something into excitement You know, how do we, how do we flip that conversation?

One of the things I like to do is with my clients is change the

conversation around what they're experiencing, whether it's ADHD or the

way they're feeling about something.

Yeah.

Uh,

we were talking about the, The default mode network and

the test positive network.

And what I've come to realize is with ADHD, in the default mode network, we

have an overactive brain and we, we, we feed, we, we feed ourselves this narrative

and it, um, and often that can be quite a negative narrative if we don't actually

feed it, um, the truth or a positive one.

So yeah, that that's, that's so fascinating.

. So, um, The internal pharmacy.

Can you take us through that?

There's the big eight, um, is that part of that?

yeah.

So what I did was, And I would talk to my clients about nutrition, hydration,

and sleep, particularly a lot of, you know, notoriously people with ADHD find

it hard to get to bed at night because they have to, hard to organize themselves

to get into bed, you know, because they're interested in other things.

So, I sort of figured out, well, here's a list of things that we need to do,

like the items from the pharmacy.

And I've got it on one side of what I call a script pad.

And on the other side is the simple actions that we can do to, to, you

know, support those, uh, those items.

And I always started with nutrition hydration, uh, because we need that, that,

you know, three to four, five days, maybe without water, you know, we won't survive.

So nutrition hydration is really important.

And the next most important thing, which will surprise most people is sleep.

Cause some people say, yeah, I don't really need sleep.

Sleep's not that important, but sleep is the second most

important thing that we can have.

need for, you know, good brain function.

And it's one of the most, you know, important factors for having, you know,

good mental health is to have good sleep.

That can be really hard for people.

Um, after sleep, I have exercise.

Exercise is great for our body and brain chemistry.

And we think of it, if we're not getting enough sleep, we're probably not going

to want to exercise in the morning.

Um, then I have breath work and there's lots of strategies.

breathwork can particularly help us.

It's a really simple thing to able to do.

It's the thing that's going to help us most in those stressful situations if we

have too much cortisol, an adrenaline, which is triggering our heart to beat

faster and as to breathe faster, the simplest thing we can do in that moment

is concentrate on that breathing.

After breathing, I have mindfulness.

I'm a huge believer in minefulness And I think next to Um, medication and

mindfulness is probably the next most important thing from a day to day basis.

We can have medication to help us focus, but we don't

know what we need to focus on.

And for me, mindfulness helps us bring our attention to the

current moment in a meaningful way.

And ADHD is always about the point of performance.

It's always about what's happening right now.

Um, and how you're fueled for that.

After mindfulness, I've got social and physical connection.

Those sorts of things help with that oxytocin.

Um, I have stress adaptation.

Um, and self reflection, so I used to have stress reduction, but we're always

going to have stress, so we can't really reduce stress in this world that

we live in, but we can certainly, um, find out how we can adapt to it better.

We need to adapt to stressful situations.

Uh, then I have humor, because in really heavy situations, there's nothing that

can alchemize the brain better than having some humor injected into something.

And the last thing item I have on the internal pharmacy is education.

the lens of executive function.

So we need to be able to understand that.

So typically they're the things that I have on the left side.

These are the items that we need.

And on the right side, I have really, really simple things

that we can do to help, you know, improve that brain chemistry.

And, um, for example, I've got water, um, regular well planned meals.

Now that can be hard for people with ADHD because they find planning hard.

Um, three colors of nutrients.

protein.

And under that, under those first four, everything else is free.

You know, early sunshine, exercise three to five times a

week, early bedtime if you can.

I know people will be shift work.

I used to be a shift worker myself and that was really hard.

But you know, if we can get a good pattern of sleeping, that can be helpful.

You know, one to three minutes of mindfulness.

That there's lots of, you know, mindfulness, um, apps out there or

tracks that you can get, um, six second hug, you know, having when

appropriate, you know, you have hug someone for six seconds and that can

be enough to stimulate that oxytocin.

That's very bonding.

That can help our body and brain chemistry.

There's lots of really simple free things we can do.

We just have to know about them.

And, uh, one of my clients said recently, he said, you know, if you

do most of these things most days, you can't help but feel better.

yeah.

simple strokes, simple changes.

love the fact that you've got humour on there, because I think we

can be so serious a lot of the time, uh, and I think, we had two guinea

pigs, um, unfortunately they, they died recently, which is very sad, and,

We were thinking, right, well, maybe, maybe we were not going to have any

pets because unfortunately, my wife is allergic to dogs and cats, but my

daughter has been feeling, she, she realized how much she was getting from

having a pet, just the stroking and I think stroking and caring for it.

So there's, there's things like that as well.

So we're apparently we're going to be getting a hamster now.

So there we go.

But, uh, so there's, there's, There's a, there's a, there's a lot there, but

I, I, I assume what you'd say is like, maybe kind of, if, if you're, if you, if

you know that you're not doing most of those, then maybe focus on two or three

to begin with and build that up over time.

Would that be what you'd

Yeah, I think you can start with one element, you know, just figure, you

know, focus on maybe nutrition, hydration is the top, having regular well planned

meals, having three colors of nutrients, you know, different colored veggies,

um, protein is really important for people with ADHD because it's a protein,

it's a building blocker for dopamine.

So we need it to help create dopamine.

So, uh, I don't know if you met Alan Brown over at the conference,

he's, he's a great ADHD coach and he talks about carrying, um, so.

Some dried apricots and some almonds, so you get some sugar,

but you also get some protein.

Great little snacks.

So

Well, that that's that's interesting.

So obviously a lot of time, but I wanted to dive into a few of those if we can.

So, uh, so you mentioned like diet or nutrition, uh, so, and you, so

you mentioned one thing about protein and it helps with the dopamine.

Are there any things, you know, obviously, so it's difficult for

those ADHD to sometimes to To be organized and to get all those things.

Um, also the people with different diets like, um, if you're a

vegetarian or whatever, that might be difficult to get, to get that.

But are there any kind of simple tips that you've got for, for us when it

comes to nutrition, um, to, to help us?

I think well planned meals.

Think ahead for the week.

I had one lady say, and she had a couple of kids, and she said,

I'd get to five o'clock in the afternoon and everything was frozen.

So it was either going to take hours to do it or they'd have to get takeaway.

So I think planning is one of those things.

You know, think ahead what you'd like, you know, Even if you just focus on

what you're having for dinner, as long as you could have three colors of

nutrients, you know, green veggie, a yellow veggie, a white veggie, you know,

something like that, to make it simple.

Keep it simple, plan ahead, um, I think that's the biggest tip.

I wonder whether there's some form of gamification as well to

make it fun with the whole thing.

I'm sure there's something in that.

Maybe

Yeah, well, one thing I do love is Insight Timer for mindfulness.

I'm not sure, I know there's lots of, um, mindfulness apps out.

I like Insight Timer because what it does, it keeps a streak of how

many days in a row you've done.

And if you miss a day, you go back to zero.

So, um, I, I burned about 165 by forgetting it one day because

I attach it to my exercise.

I didn't do my exercise this day.

I didn't do my mindfulness.

I'm now up to 770 because I am not missing it.

I'm not going back to zero and I only do three minutes.

If I don't have three minutes, I'll do one minute, you know,

No, that's,

that's a good strategy.

That's good advice.

It's like, reminds me of like Duolingo.

I don't think I'm actually learning the language at all, but

I'm going to keep that streak.

Uh, so, uh, so sleep is interesting.

I think sometimes, so I've noticed like with myself and my mum, we sometimes

use sleep as, uh, almost like a healing thing to, if we're stressed.

So sometimes I think.

You can oversleep but sometimes it's getting to sleep.

Uh, any, any tips on if we, if we're oversleeping or in more,

most cases we're not, we're finding it difficult to get to sleep.

think it's getting into a good pattern if you can.

Shiftworks, that would be hard or impossible, but

getting into a good routine.

Valuing sleep.

And I think if you don't get enough sleep, I really absolutely

love having a 10 minute power nap through the day, if I can.

Uh, 10 minutes.

It's like rebooting your computer in the middle of the day, but

I would say set two alarms.

You don't want to set it for 10 minutes.

I'd say 30 minutes at the max, um, any more than that can interrupt your sleep

routine at night, which is not helpful, but a 10 minute power nap or, uh, you

know, some people call it yoga nidra.

is, is quite incredible.

You know, you can be quite drowsy, you know, getting to

2 o'clock in the afternoon.

If you're in a position where you can have a quick power nap, you

know, you have that nap, you come back later on, and you think, gosh,

my brain is just normal again.

Yeah.

It's like, it's like, it's like rebooting your computer.

Uh, and so I think a sleep, a sleep mask is good as an app

called brain FM, the similar ones, which, which gave you this kind of.

music that can help you do that as well.

So, uh, breathing, breath work.

So I'm trying to understand what you mean here.

So I have an app on my phone called, um, things called iBreathe and it

helps with things like box breathing and that's helped me sometimes relax.

Is that what you're talking about?

And the second part of that is I, I know it's a good thing, but I never do it.

I mean, I've got it on my phone, but I keep forgetting about it and I feel,

Mm

yeah.

So can you go into that and how can we actually do that regularly?

Well, for me, when I do my three minutes of mindfulness in the

morning, I've got my app, so, um, I will spend maybe one minute of that doing,

just practicing some box breathing.

So box breathing is a great strategy for people that don't know it.

It's when you breathe in for four seconds, then you hold that for four seconds,

you breathe out for four seconds, and then you hold that for four seconds.

And that bit feels a bit weird.

Uh, the reason I come to know about that is when I was, you know, doing some

research about public speaking, I would get nervous and it's a strategy that

the Navy SEALs, the US Special Forces use box breathing so they can help

reduce their, their stress response.

I thought, well, that's pretty interesting.

So, um, you know, and I, so I think if you, If you want to

start a new habit, attach it to something you're already doing.

So I'm practicing, if I get up and go for, if I sleep well, I go exercise in

the morning, I do my mindfulness, either to or from the gym, or if I'm in the

park, if I'm going to walk, I do it in the park, I stop and I do my mindfulness,

I practice my box breathing, I'm out early, I'm getting early sunshine.

So some of these habits can be really quite key, like these, my, my exercise

is my cornerstone habit, because I sleep, I drink water while I'm on it,

I do mindfulness, I do breath work, I look at things I'm grateful for.

I get early sunshine.

I've ticked off most of the things off the internal pharmacy, and

it's not even 7am yet, you know.

So, um, and that internal pharmacy, the reason why I created that checklist

is my clients say, Look, I know these things, but I'm not doing them.

So I think if we can, I always think with ADHD, give me a reason, if

you've got a good reason, it's going to help me with my brain chemistry.

Um, and having, you know, having a little script pad for it, um, engineer the

environment, help your member to do it.

yeah, no, that's that's really important.

Sometimes that's also like, how, how do I do it?

So that, so I think the breathing works.

I find the app I breathe is, is really good.

It can get you to do it.

I just wanted to ask you briefly about mindfulness because again, it's, it's a,

it's a concept that is talked a lot about.

Um, but it's, it's something that will happen.

What, maybe what is it and how do we actually do it?

Because again, with the ADHD brain, mindfulness can seem quite tricky.

It's something that I've.

I don't find easy at all.

Well, you know, a lot of people say this to me.

I'll say, look, I think mindfulness is a great tool.

And I go, Oh, I can't do mindfulness.

I can't meditate for 20 minutes.

And I'm saying, well, I'm not asking you to meditate.

I'm just asking you to do, you know, bring your attention to the current

moment for a minute, you know, so, um, you know, when, uh, originally,

um, when I hadn't found insight time.

I'd.

I would be looking for something to help me, you know, earmark that one

minute or two minutes or three minutes.

And having a little app that can help you with that is really helpful.

But I've got a, I'm happy to share it.

I've got a little slide that I use that sort of shows the difference

between what's autopilot and where is mindfulness and metacognition and

meditation, where do they overlap?

They have some overlaps, uh, but they're not all the same, but they have the, where

they overlap is in focused attention.

So really mindfulness.

It's just bringing your attention to the current moment in a meaningful way.

So you can do it as a little one, two or three minute exercise, like, and that's

like going to the gym for your brain.

I mean, it takes three minutes.

Um, but John and I use what we call strategic mindfulness and we have

some little acronyms that we get people to use in the moment at the

point of performance to help them, you know, be, bring their attention to

the current moment in a helpful way.

So it's not, it's not the same as meditation.

It's quite different.

yeah.

I, I, and that's why I wanted to ask you about it.

Cause like some people can be like, no, I'm not saying that, you know, meditation

is bad, but like some people, it just, you know, Doesn't really, it doesn't,

Mm,

it's not what they want to do.

I think that's really helpful.

And that's fascinating.

I want to talk to you for a whole episode on that as well.

Uh, and then just like the final thing, humor, you know, what

would you, how could, cause that's difficult to manufacture.

I mean, I suppose you could, I mean, I, I sometimes find myself watching a

few YouTube videos from comedians that I find funny, but, but mixing that

with that, that connectedness and, and.

I know that when I've been with friends where we've all just been laughing

on the floor, it's amazing, but that is, that's difficult to, you can't

really manufacture that, can you?

Yeah, Well I think, luckily for a lot of people with ADHD it comes

quite naturally to them because they, you know, they have that impulse of,

you know, they have that, they say the first thing that comes into their mind

usually and that's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's often quite funny or, you know, other people might not say it, but

I think it's one of the strengths of, you know, the supercharged

attributes of people with ADHD.

They can, they can really be very good with humor.

Um, they say the funny thing and, you know, if you're in a meeting and

things are quite tense, if someone comes out with something quite funny,

it really does break the tension.

Or, you know, if you are feeling a bit down, you know, if you've got the time,

maybe revisit, you know, a half hour comedy show that you like or a podcast

or sit with a friend and watch a movie.

It can be quite funny because it does, you know, there's nothing, I think it's

such a great feeling when you've been to see a movie or, you know, you've come

out of the theater and you've just had such a good laugh, it actually makes

your whole body feel quite different.

And that's because of the brain chemistry.

that was wonderful.

Oh, well, we've gone on longer than I intended to, but this is so fascinating.

Could you just leave us with what would be the one simple habit or practice

that listeners can adopt today to start prescribing from their internal pharmacy?

I love, I mean, I think all of them, but I think one, the most

important one probably is sleep.

It really probably is sleep because it helps our body and

brain chemistry the next day.

It helps us make the good decisions in the moment.

I want to say exercise, but, because it has benefits of its own, but sleep.

If you can get seven to eight hours sleep, that's going to

be a great start, for sure.

That's great advice.

Thank you so much, Monica.

Wow.

It's been such an interesting episode.

so much for your time and your expertise on this.

Uh, you can, uh, you could, if you go to, what's the website again?

Is it connect ADHD?

connectadhd.

com

Brilliant.

So you can do that.

It's all about connections.

Uh, thank you so much, Monica.

It's been been wonderful.

Thank you.

Thank you Ian, I really appreciate it.

Wonderful.

Well, thank you so much for plugging us into your ears

or watching on the YouTubes.

And until next time, I encourage you to be smart with your ADHD.

Toodaloo.