What makes a leader worth following?

Today I'm talking with three leaders from three different cultures, united by one mission—to help leaders rise with values, integrity, and principles. Dr. Makki, Coach Attala, and Dr. Leroy McKenzie Jr. are the co-founders of the Character Driven Leadership Cafe, a movement confronting the real cracks in modern leadership.

Leadership is lacking in today's world. We see it everywhere

1. Leaders who talk about values but don't live them
2. Organizations that prioritize performance while burning out their people
3. Cultures built on control instead of connection.

The CDL Cafe was born from Dr. Makki's observation sitting with his morning coffee: leadership failures aren't just about strategy or skill—they're about character. The cafe offers Table Talk Wednesdays, resources, and a community where leaders learn to lead from the inside out.

VIP Leadership stands for Values, Integrity, and Principles—the three pillars of character-driven leadership. This isn't about adding skills on top of a hollow foundation. It's about becoming the kind of person others want to follow because you genuinely serve them.

The business case for character is clear: connected employees perform better. People who feel seen and valued share their best ideas. Stressed, burned-out employees don't. And that energy transfers to your clients and customers.

How can we honor God in our business?

By leading with character—privately and publicly. By choosing discipline over convenience. By loving the people we lead, not just using them for productivity. God cares about who we're becoming, not just what we're accomplishing.

One challenge from today:

Write down your Personal Value System—the 3-5 principles that define who you want to be as a leader. Then ask yourself honestly: Am I living these out, or are they just decoration?

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So 2 Peter 1, 5 says, giving all diligence to add to your faith virtue. And virtue embodies more excellence or character. And this character that you add to your faith is going to make you fruitful in your knowledge of Jesus Christ. It doesn't say it'll help you be fruitful. It says it'll make you be fruitful. And so that's what we should be doing as Christians is trying to add more character into our life. Today, I don't have one or two, I got three guests.

2 Peter 1, 5 says, giving all diligence to add your faith virtue. And virtue embodies moral excellence or character. And this character that you add to your faith is going to make you fruitful in your knowledge of Jesus Christ. It doesn't say it help you be fruitful. It says it will make you be fruitful.

and doing as Christians is trying to add more character into our life. Today, I don't have one or two,

I got three guests from the CDL Cafe on with me today. The CDL Cafe stands for Character Driven Leadership, and it's a movement bringing thinkers, builders, and front the real cracks in modern. These are three leaders from three different cultures united by one mission, and that is to help leaders rise with values.

from the CDL Cafe on with me today. The CDL Cafe stands for Character Driven Leadership. And it's a movement bringing thinkers, builders, and change makers to confront the real cracks in modern leadership. These are three leaders from three different cultures, united by one mission, and that is to help leaders rise with values, integrity,

.

and principles. And so we're gonna talk about this movement, what they do, and also about VIP leadership and what that is.

integrity and principles. And so we're going to talk about this movement, what they do, and also about VIP leadership and what that is. And so to introduce Dr. Mackey,

And so without further delay, I'd like to introduce Dr. Mackie, Coach

Coach Attala, and Dr. Leroy McKenzie, Jr. from the CDL Cafe. And so welcome. And I usually ask my guests this question, what is one way that you have found to honor God in your business that others may not know about? So

Attalla, and Dr. Leroy McKenzie Jr. from the CDL Cafe. And so welcome. And I usually ask my guests this question, what is one way that you have found to honor God in your business that others may not know about? So it'd be fun to get a little bit from each one of you. What is one way that God has, you have found to honor God in your business?

It would be fun to get a little bit from each one of you. What is one way that you have found to honor God in

your business?

So,

I believe we will start with Atala. Well, actually for me it's just through cultivating those values that I use because those values come from also personal but also spiritual growth. So that's one of the things people can come with anything. But at the end of the day, I like to reconnect more with their spiritual awareness also and using values like faith, compassion, kindness, forgiveness, especially to love and gratitude. So for me it's like

Patel, I want you to go first.

⁓ Yeah, well actually for me it's just through cultivating those values that I use because those values come from also personnel but also spiritual growth. So that's one of the things people can come with anything but at the end of the day I like to reconnect them more with their spiritual awareness also and using values like faith, compassion, empathy.

Right? Kindness, forgiveness, especially to love and gratitude. So for me, it's like reconnecting

with something that is important in their lives, but also that's going to have a benefit in every single other area. But at the end of the day, it's the spiritual world behind. Sometimes people really don't know, but that's what also is the end of, which I think that's for me, one of the most important things.

reconnecting with something that is important in their lives, but also that's going to have a benefit in every single other area. But at the end of the day, it's a spiritual road behind. Sometimes people really don't know, but that's what also is the end of, which I think that's for me one of the most

important things. All right, very good. Thank you. What do do? Dr. McKenzie. Dr. McKenzie.

All right, very good, thank you.

What else do?

Dr. Maggie?

All right. All Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You can hear me right? Yes. All right. ⁓ For me, ⁓ if I talk, I'm going to talk for long. So I'm going to try to I have to make it short. All right. The way that I do it is I think of it this way. You see, we all have gifts and serving your gift is your way to

Can you hear Dr. Mack?

Dr. McKee,

yep.

Yes.

pay it forward, know, God has a place something in you that you have to serve to others. And so I live my life by ⁓ acronyms and frameworks and if I can say also statements. So the way I see it is trust God, lead yourself, love people. So

I trust God in what he placed in me and I have to lead myself in order to love people the way you should love them is by serving them. Serving them the fruit that you have within. Think of it as a tree. The tree doesn't go to people. People go to the tree to eat their fruit. Right? So and the tree doesn't care who comes first, who's there. I mean, it doesn't label the people who goes to grab the fruit. It just serves the fruit.

So that's the way that I see it and that's the way I'm acting on it. And ⁓ that's how I come up with ways to serve other people.

Okay, Levi.

Okay.

Excellent.

⁓

Yeah, I'll give it in three different, quick ways. His name, which is the name of my company, JNF Enterprises, which stands for Jesus Never Fails. I honor him in his name. I honor him in the serving of others, making sure that I make people, my goal is always to make people better, 1 % better, just as he did. And then the third thing is by producing.

⁓ producing impact. Cause what he, told us, he tells us in his word, hey, you got to, you got to produce and multiply. You have to be fruitful and multiply. And hopefully by what I do, it's making people better producing the impact that leads people to be better in life.

producing impact. He told us in his word, you have to produce in multiple. have to be fruitful in multiple. Hopefully by what I do, it's making people better producing the impact that leads people to be

better in life. Okay. Very good. Thank you. ⁓ Beyond that, let's get to the CDL Cafe. Give me a little background of how this came to be and why the name.

Okay, very good, thank you. ⁓ So beyond that, let's get to the CDL Cafe. Give me a little background of how this came to be and why the name.

Great question. All right. ⁓ I love jazz. I love quiet. I love ⁓ to sit in a corner and just ⁓ reflect. And just like I was telling you, I come up with ways of like like how to serve people. And ⁓ one one of the ways that make you serve people better is

being able to see cracks, being able to see the problem that is going in certain areas. And I'm a person who's passionate about leadership. And I know that everything ⁓ relates to leadership. And one of the statements that stuck with me for years was the code by John Johnson Maxwell, when he said, everything rises and falls on leadership.

And ⁓ I just fell in love with the concept called leadership and I've been studying leadership for long years. We're talking like almost 15 something like this 15 plus years. I've been studying leadership and that's why I came up with my own philosophy anyway. So one day I was was sitting on my chair and having my coffee and thinking about

So many incidents that are related to leadership and corruption and organizations and you know, the daily transactions, the daily life we go through, you face incidents and you will be able to spot problems, especially in the area that you focus on looking at. So I see everything around me from leadership lenses, if we may say that. And ⁓ one day I was like sitting on my chair, having a coffee.

And I was thinking about a incidents and I said like, doesn't have to be long to raise awareness. you know, giving a tip or giving advice or giving an insight can be as quick as a sip. And I was sipping my coffee. So I said, wait a second, we're talking about sip and tip. So why don't I start giving tips and sips?

And then exactly. And then it came to my mind like, all right, what comes with tips? Like, let me imagine if I'm having, ⁓ you know, breakfast or I'm having something I'm going to I'm going to be sipping coffee. I'm going to have I'm going to have bites. What comes with bites? We're talking about insights. OK. And and some some cheesecake slices. So we're talking about advice and.

Ha ha ha ha.

That's how it started developing in my mind. I said like, I'm talking about food. Am I hungry? Do I? I don't know, like what's what's going, you know, I went on, I went on the Internet, you know, searching about few things and things started connecting together. At the same time, I was in a place where I was catching up with with all connections and.

connecting with new people, trying to ⁓ change my circle and everything. ⁓ as I said at the beginning of this interview, came, I mean, Dr. McKenzie came to my mind and I contacted him and I said like, it's been a long time since we connected, so do you mind if we can catch up on a call or something? Of course, as you can, I mean, you know him, so he welcomed.

the idea catching up and everything. So we connected together and we started talking and our conversation led ⁓ to the point where I'm sharing with him what happened with me as like how I came with the idea and everything. And I found myself talking about the vision and I found myself talking like I just opened, ⁓ you know, my heart and I spoke my heart during our conversation.

And I saw like we as entrepreneurs, when we talk to people, we can sense, we can look into the facial expression and everything. I saw that Dr. McKinsey was welcoming the idea and he was handling it in a way that made me want to talk more. You know, and I started sharing the ideas and everything and he welcomed the idea and he started throwing suggestions and everything.

And from that moment, I started elaborating more on the idea, collecting things together, ⁓ putting ⁓ together the puzzle. And I created a video out of imagination. Luckily, after a few days, after a few days from connect creating the video, one of the requests that I sent through Facebook was a talent.

She was a total stranger.

And she accepted my request after three weeks or four weeks, something like this. So she sent me a message and she asked me the question, what are you doing? I was in the middle of creating the whole concept because I was ⁓ committing to a schedule with Dr. Leroy every week. We connect and talk and exchange ideas. That was only the beginning. And I found myself telling her ⁓

I'm doing this, this, this, this, this. I'm going to share with you the video I shared with her the video. It was the very first conversation we didn't take much. And this is how we connected. the reason why I'm mentioning this is because when the right people connect, it doesn't matter the time, you know, ⁓ to warm the contact and everything. I'm not saying that you don't have to do that, but sometimes the right people, when they connect, they don't need warming. I mean, they connect, they just connect.

And from the very first conversation I shared with her the video and she liked the idea. And then we set a time for us to connect and talk and we started elaborating more on it. Here I got Dr. McKinsey and I had Attala, you know, connecting with them on a weekly basis and they started adding suggestions and input and feedback and ideas and like this and the idea just grew.

You know, and I was working on something I forgot about it and it started focusing on the character driven leadership. So that's how everything happened. ⁓ And and it's connected to what I do as a leadership expert. I'm specialized in character driven leadership, and that's why I call it the character driven leadership cafe. We're having fun. We're enjoying the time, but at the same time, we're adding value to others.

And ⁓ the word cafe followed the character driven leadership is because of the tips and sips, the slice of advice and the bias of insight. And that's how the menu started developing. That's it.

Okay, thank you very much, Dr. Mackey. So what does the cafe do today? Do you have times that you meet and other people meeting or do you have a class or what do you do?

Okay, thank you very much, Dr. Mackie. what does the... Okay, do you have times that you meet and other people meeting, have a class

you

or what

do you do? All right. And in social media, ⁓ I mean, I spoke a lot, right? Let's let's go to Dr. McKinsey. Let's go to Dr. McKinsey. Maybe he'll put it in a better way.

Anybody.

Well, not just

what the cafe does. It gives the opportunity for entrepreneurs, for leaders, those that are ⁓ in order to run organizations to be able to gather on a weekly basis or to be able to come into the social media platforms that we have and to share information that will, as I mentioned, make make us as leaders better under the premise of

of character, letting character be the lead, leading with, as Dr. Mackey said, leading with character. So, you know, whether it's through the platform, you know, coming into the different platforms, social media platforms that we have, which we have, you can come in at any time and join, or our weekly conversations, which we call the Table Talk, Table Talk Wednesdays, which is where we come in, and anyone that's a part of the cafe, they can come in.

Have a seat, it's a virtual seat. Come in, have a seat, have your drink. Dr. Mackey likes coffee, but I tell him now we want soda. So, ⁓ you get to pick a beverage. It's just to make it, give that feel to you when you can come. And we have conversations around leadership. We have conversations around character and how we as leaders.

can benefit from doing that. And then we share tips and tools. You can go into, like on our Facebook page, we have forms that you can use as a leader that might be beneficial for you. You can go in, you can grab a PDF download, all of those things and everything like that. The table talks are ⁓ recorded. So you can go on to our YouTube channel. You can watch any of them at any time. So that's available for people to be able to use as well too.

And then on LinkedIn, you're able to get the tips and sips like that Dr. Mackey talked about, where you can get those on a daily basis. then on ⁓ one day a week, we have what's called the Cafe Specials, which is where we as leaders, do, whether it's a guest that we've had on there, they leave ⁓ something on the leadership wall, kind of like another. And then we also do...

the specials, the cafe specials, which is just us having a topic for about three, maybe three to five minutes, three to five minutes where we're giving you some, ⁓ you know, some information on a particular topic of leadership and being able to just make us better as leaders. So that's just a little bit about what we do in the cafe.

Sounds very interesting. ⁓ We will get links and notes and stuff, put that in the show notes for later on. So if you want to connect with them. ⁓ You've talked about VIP leadership. What is VIP leadership?

Practically, we're talking about values, integrity, and principles. So that's what I love because we're three different perspectives with different kind of life experiences, professional experience, but at the same time, we are all on the same boat. ⁓

VIP leadership. What

is VIP leadership? ⁓

We are in alignment. see life like we want to add value to people because we want to add value not just to a leader. Leader also has an impact in his life, right? His family, also in the business, in the clients. So it's like a very open mindset, but with one intention. We need to live our life more with values. Values

are lost in these days. There is no compassion. There is no empathy. There is a lot of resentment. There is a lot of anger in people. That's why we see life like if we cannot value create a little

consciousness how in the world we're going to be starting like living better feeling better we're going to get back our health as well I think that principles integrity values are fundamental in kids in teenagers in adults even in other people that they have so much wisdom so I believe we need to go back to the to the race today to the root we are missing the main the most important thing in this life

We can have great leadership skills to be productive, but if you don't have the human connection part, how in the world? You are leading people. You are leading lives as well. So I think that being able to bring this perspective that I really see a lot of things coming up, you know, we have vision. mean, sometimes God speaks through vision. So I think this is just a movement that maybe just started, the influence, the impact, especially because we are not talking about just be productive, you know?

or be a leader that you are leading people through control or through fear. A lot of leaders, live by that. We're talking about go back to the basis. Start develop your values, the integrity, the principles. That's gonna have a huge impact. And then people will follow you naturally because they connect, because you are serving, because you are listening, because you are impacting people naturally. So I'm just happy to be with Dr. McKenzie and also Dr. Mackey because also every time that we

connect, we learn from each other too.

We'll learn from it.

And can I add something, real quick, to what Coach Attala just really quickly about the, you know, are you a VIP or becoming a VIP? That's something that I know that you have been aware of that's missing in the marketplace now, that's missing in industries today. Having the values, integrity and principles that guide you as a leader. Leadership is lacking, lacking.

Sure. Yeah, go ahead.

Just really quickly about the you know, are you a VIP? That I know that you have been aware of that's missing in the marketplace that's missing in industries today. Having the values, integrity and principles that guides you as a leader. Leadership is

lacking, lacking big time in this in this world today so.

lacking big time in this this world today. So

this is where that gap that Dr. Mackey saw, and he wanted to be able to bridge that gap and saying, hey, okay, if you have leaders that aren't here's some things that we can that we're doing that can equip you as a leader to be able to do that. And then on the other end, even if you are a leader, you may have some skill, it gives you the opportunity to kind of network and build and grow.

This is where that gap that Dr Mackey saw and he wanted to be able to bridge that gap and saying, hey, OK, if you have leaders that aren't equipped, here's some things that we can do that we're doing that can equip you as a leader to be able to do that. And then on the other end, even if you are a leader and you may have some skill, it gives you the opportunity to kind of network and build and grow

with others that have.

with others that have the

like-mindedness that you have as a leader and wanting to have impact. So I think that was my draw as well to the character driven leadership cafe, being a VIP leader and just everything that Dr. Mackey had envisioned and what he talked to us about when he came to us with this idea.

have the like mindedness that you have as they wanted to have impact. So I think that that was modular as well to the character driven leadership cafe, being a VIP leader and just everything that Dr. Mackey had envisioned and what he talked to us about when he came to us with this idea.

I think that's interesting that you're focusing on character, not necessarily on values.

I think that's interesting that you're focusing on character, not necessarily on values.

because in the coaching world and the business promote, what are your core values? And it's really true. mean, what are your core values? What do you live by? Because that's what's going to make you fulfilled in life. But character, it's kind of like, okay, we just want all the good values. Because you can have a core value of, want to make lots of money all the time.

Because in the coaching world and the business world today, a lot of people ⁓ promote, what are your core values? And that's really true. I mean, what are your core values? What do you live by? Because that's what's going to make you fulfilled in life. But character, it's kind of like, okay, we just want all the good values. Because you can have a core value of, want to make lots of money all the time.

You

That may be what's driving you, but that's not necessarily a good character. And so that's where it's...

that may be what's driving you, but that's not necessarily a good character. And so that's where

it's, I like the difference between the character and the values there. ⁓ You've made mention before that character is the new competitive advantage. Can you give me a specific example of how or why character is an advantage today?

It's like the difference between the character and You may mention before that character is a new competitive advantage. Can you give me a specific example of how or why character is an advantage today?

Can hear me, Doc?

You hear me doc?

You can hear.

You can

hear. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. All right. I don't know why the screen is freezing, but I'm following your instruction. I'll keep going. I'll keep going. What was the question again?

Yes.

Yes.

Character, you say, is the new competitive advantage. It's not just having values, it's having character, a competitive advantage in leadership and in business today.

Character, you say, is the new competitive advantage. It's not just having values, but it's having character. Why is character a competitive advantage in leadership and in business today?

⁓ I can say that character is the new and old because ⁓ In some areas, know, some people say that you have to develop develop character and some people say that you have to reveal your character, you know everyone have his own ⁓ perspective around ⁓ how character is being Reflected to others. So I'm not gonna talk in this ⁓

⁓ you know, this type of thing because we could go for long talking about it. But the reason why I'm saying this is because character requires what ⁓ God tell us to do. It requires discipline in the first place. And... ⁓

When I see people calling themselves or have the credential of doctor, DR, you know, before their name, I have a special definition for this. In order for you to be a doctor or an expert in your field, you have to have two things. D and R, discipline and responsibility. have to be like I told you the statement that I believe in, trust God.

lead yourself, love people. So you have to be disciplined in what like how you're leading yourself, how you're understanding your relationship with God. What are you equipped with? What are the things that you cannot cross in your in your life? ⁓ Leading by example, you know, the people who repeats the term lead by example. But this is a heavy

term. It's something heavy. It's a heavy statement. Lead by example. You you can't talk about it all day. But what are you doing in private? Because what you do in private automatically ⁓ make you a person who reflects the right thing, you know, that makes people want to follow you, if that makes sense. So

Going back to the credential, the discipline and then responsible for what you are radiating out of your discipline. You have to be responsible for the message that you are putting out there. So that's why character is the new advantage and the old ⁓ corner or back backbone that we have within within us created by God. All we have to do is reveal it, develop it, whatever.

you will put it in development or revealing or whatever the case may be. Character requires discipline, requires hard work, requires you being honest with yourself in private because...

What you do in private translates automatically what you do in public. And that's the challenge.

Yes, who you are in private will come out. Yes. ⁓

It is true, yes. Who you are in private will come out in the wash, yes.

So character is very important. Can you give me example of how character influences culture versus, and performance? know, cause most people at work, they just care about performing. They just care about getting the product out the door, doing their job, getting the paperwork signed. How does having good values shape how they do their work?

So the characters drew for it to.

Can you how care for me? They just care about getting the product out the door, doing their job, getting the paperwork signed. How does having good values shape how they do their work?

I would say something, I think it's an integration here because we're talking about values, integrity and principles. When you are in company and you are meeting people, most of the time you just say, know, we want productivity, performance, but what about seeing the person that goes, because this person, the more connected that you are at a human level, is going to be performing better. No worse. You want to the person is going to feel more alive.

I would say something, I think it's an integration here because we're talking about values, integrity and principles. When you are in the company, when you are leading people, most of the time you just say, know, we want productivity, performance, but what about

seeing the person that also you are leading because this person, the more connecting that you are at a human level, is going to be performing better. No worse. You're going to break boundaries because the person is going to feel more alive,

more able to share his ideas or her ideas, his talents. So those people are going to be able to add more into, no less. Something else is like, well-being is going to be there also because the less friction, the more connection, human connection we can build, the healing start right there.

more able to share his ideas or her ideas, his talents. So those people is going to be able to add more into, no less. Something else is like, well-being is going to be there also because the less friction, the more connection, human connection we can build, the healing start right there. The productivity

The is right there. The connection, the communication is more pure. So I think that we have to reframe this because it's It's true character. And I think the three of them are

start right there. The connection, the communication is more pure. So we are thinking, I think that we have to reframe this because it's it's true character. And I think the three of them are, I mean,

fundamental. Because also something else that I have seen, for example, when you are able to break that barrier, mental barrier, I cannot connect at a human level. They need to be productive. They need to, you know,

Fundamental because also something else that I have seen, for example, when you are able to break that barrier, mental barrier, I cannot connect at a human level. They need to be productive. They need to

fulfill all these requirements. Yes, but you are missing the point. That person is overstressed, burnout, he's not gonna be performing. I'm sorry, that's for true, that's true. Something else, that person is not gonna be able to give his very best because he feel intimidated sometimes because

fulfill all these requirements. Yes, but you are missing the point. That person is over stressed, burnout, he's not going to be performing. I'm sorry. That's true. That's true. Something else that person is not going to be able to give his very best because he feel intimidated sometimes.

because he doesn't feel sure or seen. Another point that person also is act.

he doesn't feel heard or seen. Another point, that person also is acting, I mean, is having a connection with clients, most probably, right? Or with patient, that was my case.

it

So that energy is transferred. We forgot about that. Our energy is our resource, inner resource. The more connected that we can be, the more visible that we can feel. People perform better. So we're breaking barriers, but also we are adding well-being, which is important. You can sometimes I see leaders so overwhelmed, overwhelmed. They cannot do their best because people see them, but they feel them. We weren't in a room.

And I'll

They cannot do their best.

We feel each other, our energy, our purpose, our goal, the intention that we have. So I think that we need to remember always this, how we're leading our life, how we're leading our thoughts to develop emotions, feelings.

We feel each other, our energy, our purpose, our goal, the intention that we have. So I think that we need to remember always this.

So when you start leading from the best, you the core, the value, I will say even the spirit, because that's a pure thing that we can have, everything starts in alignment, in coherence, in harmony. And then you can truly impact people's lives.

Even the spirit, because that's a pure sin.

you

Very good. And one more question. We've talked about leadership, we talked about character and all that stuff. As leaders, what are some simple practical steps we can make to start applying this in our life and our business today? Not only modeling character, but encouraging it in our employees.

One more question. We've talked about leadership, talked about character and all that stuff. As leaders, what are some simple practical steps we can make to start applying this in our life and our business today? Not only modeling character, but encouraging it in our employees.

Yeah, I think the first thing, like you just mentioned, it's not just speaking, but my movement. Being a leader of character, to me it all starts there with everything that's going on here. And it just makes me think about what's going on up at University of Michigan and what happened with the head coach there.

Yeah, I think the first thing like you just mentioned is not just speaking of it, but modeling it. Being a leader of character, to me it all starts there.

And it just makes me think about what's going on up at University of Michigan and what happens with the head coach there.

That's the thing that drives leadership. And you have to understand that you are always the example. And you have to understand what it is to be a leader, to lead by example, to understand having your

Those are the things that drives leadership. And you have to understand that you are always the example. And you have to understand what it is to be a leader, to lead by example, to understand having your core

core values as we talked a little bit about, having your PBS, which is what I call your personal value system. What's your personal value system? That's gonna

values, as we talked a little bit about, having your PBS, which is what I call your personal value system. What's your personal value system? That's gonna... ⁓

hold you accountable to the things that you say that you want to be or that you want to do. That's your character. Do you hold yourself accountable for those particular principles that you say you want to abide by? And if you have those principles in place, then it gives you something to first

hold you accountable to the thing that you say that you wanna be or that you wanna do. That's your character. Do you hold yourself accountable for those particular principles that you say you want to abide by? And if you have those principles in place, then it gives you something.

hold you accountable for because you have to look inward first before you can even look outside. I can't expect you to do something that I'm not even doing myself.

first hold you accountable because

So I think when we look at it from that perspective and having that development of your personal value system, holding yourself accountable to those characteristics and principles that you say you are, that becomes

you have to look inward first before you can even look out. So you need do something doing myself. First of all, accountable to those characteristics and principles that you say you are.

the leveling point that you go from there. Then being able to make sure, ensure that you, that you instill that in those that you hire, first of all, that they have the same kind of mindset.

that leveling point that you go from there, then being able to make sure, ensure that you, that you instill that in those that you hire. First of all, that they have the same kind of mindset

And then two, that they have the same kind of understanding that you have. And then it becomes your culture, developing that as your culture inside of your organization and those that you even surround yourself with. I think you start there to me.

and then two, that they have the same kind of understanding that you have. And then it becomes your culture, developing that as your culture inside of your organization and those that you even surround yourself with. I think you start there to me.

Okay, very good. Yes, you have to have your own value system before you can pass it on. And I know this is probably just to add extra, but I think it's very simple. Once you figure that out, write it on a notecard and look at it, because that's part of remembering what your values are, because yeah, then if you tell somebody else, here are my values, they can hold you accountable to it. It's like, hey, ⁓ Leroy, you're not a...

Okay, very good. Yes, you have to have your own value system before you can pass it on. And I know this is probably just to add it extra, but I think it's very simple. Once you figure that out, write it on a note card and look at it. Because that's part of remembering what your values are. Because, yeah, then if you tell somebody else, here are my values, they can hold you accountable to it. It's like, hey, ⁓ Leroy, you're not

a...

matching up to your values you said you were going to do. ⁓ That's another level of accountability that we could probably submit ourselves onto that would be extremely helpful. ⁓ So what are some final thoughts guys for ⁓ how to lead with character? What would you like to leave my audience with? ⁓ Atella, what would you like to leave my audience with? I would say to just kind of

matching up to your values you said you were going to do. ⁓ That's another level of accountability that we could probably submit ourselves onto that would be extremely helpful. ⁓

Yeah.

So what are some final thoughts guys for ⁓ how to lead with character? What would you like to leave my audience with? Attela, what would you like to leave my audience with?

say to just kind of...

Just pause a little bit. I love to pause because in silence you can have guidance also. And from there you can actually hire call. And when your call is leading by values, integrity and principles, it's going to be easier to achieve your purpose, but also it's going to be easier to lead people. Especially when you are truly, truly connected with, in my case, with, I feel like love is one of them and love is not romantic. Love is reaching people.

Just pause a little bit, a lot of pause because in silence you can have guidance also. And from there you can actually connect really with your higher call. And when your call is leading by values, integrity and principles, it's going to be easy to achieve your purpose, but also it's going to be easy to lead people. Especially when you are truly, truly connected with, in my case, with, I feel like love is one of them and love is not romantic. Love is reaching people.

Love is listening,

Love is

Love has been present, love has been there, sometimes without even saying anything, supporting someone. And I think this love need in leadership. And people confuse that with romantic love. Absolutely is not that way. But it's loving people. did the best for people acting in your words, in your thoughts, in your action. And that's the beauty of that. Keep us higher, a level of energy, but also keep us centered and connected. So I would say practice more love,

love is being present, being there, sometimes without even saying anything, supporting someone. And I think this love needed in leadership. And people confuse that with romantic love. Absolutely is not the way. What is loving people? One did the best for people acting in your words, in your thoughts, in your actions. And that's the beauty of that. Keep us higher, a level of energy, but also keep us centered and connected. So I would say practice more love.

love people,

love people, love home.

for me God, but I also love the purpose of the call that he has placed in you. Very good. Love that purpose that God's called you to, yes. Very good. Dr. Mackey, what would you like to challenge our audience with as we leave? ⁓ From my experience, the whole journey, the thing that is going to unlock you from where you are to where you want to be,

from your God, but also love the purpose of the call that he has placed in you.

Very good, love that purpose that God's called you to, yes. Very good. Dr. Mackie, what would you like to challenge our audience with as we leave?

is ⁓ questions. Ask yourself questions. Be your own friend. Because when you are your own friend, you will not be able to cheat yourself because you know who you are. So be your own friend. Have like what Attala said, the pause timing, like I have my own chair, but I have my own time in the morning, maybe in the afternoon and sometimes the evening before I sleep.

I ask myself questions. Now there are some people and maybe I consider myself one of them who are harsh on themselves. You know, I asked myself so many questions and and and and I might, you know, ⁓ fight with myself in in certain way. But the thing is that the golden key is ask yourself questions, true questions, you know, and before acting on something.

Just ask yourself, does this align with who I am? Does this the way I want to reflect myself to people? this the way, you know, keep asking yourself questions in every step, you know, until it becomes internalized. You know, I have a framework that holds my family name, the Mackey method. ⁓ The I stands for internalization. Nothing works until you internalize.

whatever you said I want to do or I want to make or I want to create nothing works until you internalize the let's let's talk about the personal value system you can have it on a card you can have it on a paper you can have it on the wall but if you don't embody and internalize them

Nothing happens. It's just a decoration. So the key point is be honest with yourself, be your own friend and ask yourself questions. that's the challenge.

Absolutely.

Okay, very good, thank you. Leroy, do you have a final parting challenge for my audience?

Okay, very good, thank you. Leroy, do you have a final parting challenge for my audience?

Yeah, I think character begins with two understandings and that's, and they mentioned them, I believe, is identity and purpose. Who are you and why are you? Every leader must answer that question. If you're going to lead, you have to be able to answer that, those two questions in every

Yeah, I think character begins with two understandings, and they've mentioned them, I believe, is identity and purpose. Who are you and why are you? Every leader must answer that question. If you're going to lead, you have to be able to answer those two questions in every...

aspect of your life, not just in your business life, but also in your personal life and those that you deal with.

aspect of your life, not just in your business life, also in your personal life and those that you deal

with. And that's what we deal with here in the Character Driven Leadership Cafe, but also the webinar that's coming up on December the 19th. Are you a VIP leader? Are you ⁓ a leader with values, integrity, and principles? And for those that will attend or that can attend, you will be able to come there and come away with understanding, what are my values?

And that's what we deal with here in the Character Driven Leadership Cafe, but also the webinar that's coming up on December the 19th. Are you a VIP leader? Are you ⁓ a leader with values, integrity, and principles? And for those that will attend or that can attend, you will be able to come there and come away with understanding, what are my values?

Do I have integrity? Am I a person of integrity? And then,

Do I have integrity? I'm a lot of personal integrity. And

then what principles do I need to have in place that we just talked about the PBS? What principles do I need to have in place in order to be able to be that leader of care? And when you put all of that together, you not only make yourself better, but you make those that you lead even better as well too. So I would leave the audience with those very things. Join us on December the 19th.

What principles do I need to have in place that we just talked about the PBS? What principles do I need to have in place in order to be able to be that leader of care? And when you put all of that together, you not only make yourself better, but you make those that you lead even better as well too. So I would leave the audience with those very things. Join us on December the 19th.

It's virtual. I'll make sure that have all of the information that you can pass on to everyone as well,

It's virtual, I'll make sure that you have all of the information that you can pass on to everyone as well too.

too. But I think it's a great opportunity. This is the end of the year. This is the last webinar of the year going into 2026. What are your goals? What is your assignment for 2026? And that's it. You should have that before you even go into 2026. So this would be a great opportunity to do that.

but I think it's a great opportunity. This is the end of the year. This is the last webinar of the year going into 2026. What are your goals? What is your assignment for 2026? And that's it. You should have that. You wanna have that together before you even go into 2026. So this would be a great opportunity to do that.

Okay. And you guys also have webinars into 2026 too. This is just your last one, This year. Actually, actually the webinar, this webinar is, is ⁓ the very first one that we are putting out there in public for everybody. We started with the table talks. We are going to have something called the ICU, the intensive character unit podcast. So we will be having

Okay. And you guys also have webinars into 2026 too. This is just your last one, This year.

Court. Court.

You

will.

Okay,

very good.

We will be mapping out webinars that are going to help whoever joins us in the community or the YouTube channel and everything ⁓ to help them become VIP leaders. Yes, we are going to map up webinars. That's the first one that we are going to have on the 19th of December, the VIP leader. And if I may share the quick story behind the VIP leader, this...

framework ⁓ came to life because of our conversations. So this is something important that I need to share is that when you connect with people and start talking and sharing ideas, you are going to come up with something valuable. Like because we had our conversations, me and Atala and Dr. McKinsey, ⁓ I noticed that we've been talking about

values, integrity and principles. And that's why I asked them, hey, ⁓ why don't we call it the VIP leader? Because that's what I heard from our conversations. We are talking about values, integrity and principles. And they like the idea. And that's what I love about Attala and Dr. McKinsey. mean, you ⁓ you talk to them, ⁓ they... ⁓

Encourage you they inspire you they motivate you without them doing it intentionally, you know, and that's what I'm talking about When you are a character driven leadership when you work on your character, you will start Vibrating the inner energy without like it's gonna be effortless ⁓ effortless Excuse me, know no effort, right? So

When you work on the character from the inside, the radiation is going to be the energy that you are seeing today between us three. So I just wanted to make ⁓ this point clear to everybody that everything comes from fruitful conversations.

Okay, Dr. Mackey, Attila and Leroy, thank you so much for your time today and encouragement and talking about the VIP leadership and what that means to us. And as far as the audience goes, if you're looking forward to getting deeper and to learning more about the CDL Cafe and joining this movement, check out the show notes for links, sites and free resources. And remember, your business represents the great God you serve. So build a business worthy of God's great name and in a way that honors Him. Bye for now.

Okay, Dr. Mackey, Attila, and Leroy, thank you so much for your time today, your encouragement, and talking about the VIP leadership and what that means to us. as far as the audience goes, if you're looking forward to getting deeper, to learning more about the CDL Cafe and joining this movement, check out the show notes for links, sites, and free resources. And remember, your business represents the great God you serve. So build a business worthy of God's great name and in a way that honors Him. Bye for now.