Welcome to this special bonus episode of the show. This follows an incredible week spent in the US with Jamie and Maureen Kelley from Bank of Oklahoma, or BOK Financial.

Jamie and I attended and spoke at the brilliant Purposeful Planning Institute Rendezvous conference in Denver and then spent some time with Maureen and her team along with some clients.

We wanted to share with you this experience and the benefits that can come from collaboration amongst professionals. As we embrace the age of Wealth 3.0 it is more important than ever to focus on the human connections with our clients.

We mention in this show an episode recorded with Dr Jim Grubman, Dr Dennis Jaffe and Kristin Keffeler on the topic of Wealth 3.0. That episode can be found here:

https://fambizpodcast.com/wealth/

You can contact Maureen via email at: MKelley@bokf.com and you can get in touch with Jamie or I at hello@questforlegitimacy.com

The Quest for Legitimacy: How Children of Prominent Families Discover Their Unique Place in the World is available to buy on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. It will also be available in book stores. 

You can follow these links to order the book: 

Amazon USA 

Amazon UK 

Barnes and Noble 

If you would like to speak to us about a bulk order for your family, your clients or team members please email us:

hello@questforlegitimacy.com  

Support the Show

The podcast is entirely self-funded by me. I am not looking for sympathy as it is something that I love to do and I have a passion for providing great content for family businesses across the world. Some listeners have asked for ways in which they can support the show, be that through reviews, sharing with friends or a donation. As such I have set up a page that outlines all the ways that you can support what I am doing.

www.fambizpodcast.com/support

Work With Russ

If what I have spoken about in the show resonates and you want to discuss how I can help you and your family business drop me an email: russ@familybusinesspartnership.com or head over to www.familybusinesspartnership.com

Sign up to the Newsletter

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Russ Haworth: 00:00:59

of the family business podcast.

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Now, if you listen to.

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The most recent episode of the show, I said we would be

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taking a break over the summer.

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So it may be a little bit of a surprise.

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As to why this episode has been released.

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Well, to give a bit of background, I have spent the last week or so.

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In Denver, Colorado in the United States.

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Let's uh, doing a couple of things.

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So firstly, attending.

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A conference, which you hear about in this episode.

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And then also spending some time with Maureen Kelly and her

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team at the bank of Oklahoma.

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And the.

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Overriding topic of.

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The conference and the work that Jamie and I have been doing

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on the quest for legitimacy.

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Is the importance of human connection.

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And so having spent some time with Maureen and her.

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Team.

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We thought it'd be a good idea to just share what our experience

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has been over the last week or so.

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And.

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The episode is titled the gift of collaboration, which is a phrase that.

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Maureen uses right towards the end of this episode.

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And I think it really captures the essence of what it was that

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we were doing in the past week.

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So we decided to record a bonus episode where you will hear some of the outcomes

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of the work that we did together.

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And some valuable lessons that I think are important, both from a client perspective.

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. So if you're listening to this as somebody who is within a family

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enterprise, a family business,

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It's relevant to you and the advisors that you work with.

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But also, if you are an advisor to families, I think this is a really

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interesting episode to delve into, uh, particularly around some of the

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details and outcomes of, of what we've been doing over the past week or so.

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So we thought we'd share it.

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And, , I'll pass over to the interview in just a second, but a reminder.

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That, , you can join the mailing list for the podcast.

Russ Haworth: 00:02:53

So if you head over to fam biz podcast.com.

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On the homepage.

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If you scroll down just a little, there is.

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This is a box there to give me your first name.

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And your email address.

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Make sure you click on the email that I then sent you saying, sign me up.

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Um, so that will then add you to the mailing list.

Russ Haworth: 00:03:13

Each month I send a newsletter with insights and interesting topics.

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And, , yeah, get a good, a positive response from those that have subscribed.

Russ Haworth: 00:03:24

So if you're not already on the list, please head over to

Russ Haworth: 00:03:27

fanbase podcast.com to sign up.

Russ Haworth: 00:03:30

Um, we've also been talking about the book, the quest for legitimacy.

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, in previous episodes and Denver was the first opportunity we had

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to get together with a community that will have read this book.

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And the feedback that Jamie has been getting is absolutely fantastic.

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So as a reminder, Do go and buy the book.

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It is a fantastic book.

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It's been written really, really well by Jamie, by using stories and experiences

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of those that we spoke with rather.

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Other than it being kind of preachy and academic, . So I highly recommend it.

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You can find it on Amazon.

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It is out in the United States right now.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:10

Um, End of August for the UK, but you can certainly pre-order it now.

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, on Amazon, just search for the quest.

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Quest for legitimacy and it should pop up.

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, I will also put links in the show notes.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:23

Right.

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I'll pass over to the conversation we had with Jamie and Maureen Kelly.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:28

Allie of the bank of Oklahoma, and I really hope you enjoy it.

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We'd love to hear your feedback.

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Please do get in touch, , on what you're hearing on the show.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:37

And uh yeah i'll hand over to that interview now Well, hello everybody.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:40

And welcome to this special bonus episode of the family business podcast.

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I will explain in a little bit why it is a bonus episode, but I'm

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delighted to be joined today by Maureen Kelly from bank of Oklahoma.

Russ Haworth: 00:04:56

, and, , my friend and colleague Jamie Weiner, , who you will

Russ Haworth: 00:04:59

recognize from the recent episodes on the quest for legitimacy.

Russ Haworth: 00:05:03

, firstly, Maureen, Jamie, welcome to the.

Maureen Kelley: 00:05:06

Thank you.

Jamie Weiner: 00:05:07

Yeah.

Jamie Weiner: 00:05:07

Thank you, Russ.

Jamie Weiner: 00:05:08

Good to be.

Russ Haworth: 00:05:09

So to give a bit of background as to why

Russ Haworth: 00:05:11

we're having this conversation.

Russ Haworth: 00:05:13

We have spent the last week, um, seeing each other more than we were seeing

Russ Haworth: 00:05:19

our own families and we were attending, uh, the purposeful planning Institute.

Russ Haworth: 00:05:26

Rondevu conference in Denver, Colorado, which is where Maureen I'll let you

Russ Haworth: 00:05:30

explain your role, what you do, but that's effectively where you are based.

Russ Haworth: 00:05:34

Um, and as well as spending some time at the conference together,

Russ Haworth: 00:05:38

uh, we did a little bit of stuff outside of that as well.

Russ Haworth: 00:05:41

Which again, we're gonna dive into, um, a little bit later, but before

Russ Haworth: 00:05:44

we get into that, Maureen, please introduce yourself to our audience,

Russ Haworth: 00:05:49

a bit of background and how you came to be doing what you're doing.

Maureen Kelley: 00:05:52

Thank you, Russ.

Maureen Kelley: 00:05:53

It is really a pleasure to be here with you.

Maureen Kelley: 00:05:56

, I've really enjoyed your podcast listening over, , the, the last year or so.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:01

So it's a pleasure to join you.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:03

, I am the family office services director at the bank of Oklahoma.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:08

BRK financial.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:09

, it is bank of Oklahoma, but we serve Oklahoma and Texas New Mexico, , Arizona.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:15

I happen to be based in Denver, Colorado.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:18

Um, I have been in financial services for over 30 years.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:23

Although fun fact to know and tell which I've shared with you.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:26

Uh, over 42 years ago, I attended St.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:29

John's college in York.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:31

So I have such fondness for your country and, uh, all things UK.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:36

And I think that's what I've enjoyed about your podcast is really, uh,

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:40

bringing global best practices together in how we serve families.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:44

So, uh, Over 30 years in financial services.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:48

I like to say that I've been on both sides of the balance sheet.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:51

I started in investments and then moved to private banking.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:55

Uh, probably about 15 years ago.

Maureen Kelley: 00:06:58

I became more intentional in this relational side of finance.

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:03

I knew that I had the acumen and the heart to be going a little deeper

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:07

with people, uh, than just asset allocation and credit facilities.

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:11

So I became very intentional in studying the impact of money and relationships

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:18

and how we behave around money.

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:20

Uh, I did a graduate program at Kansas state university in financial therapy.

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:26

many people have never heard of financial therapy.

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:29

It's basically the intersection of the emotions and the economics.

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:33

So, uh, I was with a very large bank here in the United States,

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:39

I left the bank and started a private practice in financial therapy and,

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:43

and helping individuals, couples, families, uh, simultaneously I was asked

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:50

to manage a former client's family.

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:53

So for the last six years, I had been managing a single family office

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:57

and had my own private practice.

Maureen Kelley: 00:07:58

When BK approached me to create a family office platform or offering

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:05

here, uh, the reason is that within the bank, there are many legacy families

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:12

that are very wealthy in this ultra high net worth space, family owned

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:16

businesses and the leadership recognized.

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:20

We have to be serving these families in a more meaningful way and that if we don't

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:25

meet their needs, then clients will go somewhere else to find these services.

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:30

Uh, with more wealth comes more complexity.

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:33

We all know that, but how do we have more

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:35

meaningful discussions with the families?

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:38

Um, we know that.

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:40

Truly their single most important asset are their individual family members.

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:45

It's it's way beyond the money.

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:47

So I'm now in my first year at B K we're developing this program, we

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:52

are bringing it to the advisors.

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:54

We're focused on both financial capital and human capital.

Maureen Kelley: 00:08:58

And, uh, when I connected with both of you almost a year ago through, uh,

Maureen Kelley: 00:09:03

PPI, I knew that the messaging that we were, uh, kindred spirits like-minded

Maureen Kelley: 00:09:10

and I, it was very exciting to bring the quest for legitimacy to be okay.

Maureen Kelley: 00:09:16

So that's how I, that's how we ended up being connect.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:20

Fantastic.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:20

And it was, uh, such a joy to be able to meet in person, um, as well.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:26

Uh, I'm sure we're not alone in this, but a lot of our conversations over, , the

Russ Haworth: 00:09:32

last year have been solely on, uh, zoom.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:35

Um, there hasn't been able to, to kind of meet and, and give you

Russ Haworth: 00:09:39

a hug and, and say hi properly.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:41

And we got that opportunity, as we say, at the, , PPI rondevu, , conference.

Russ Haworth: 00:09:47

We're obviously joined as well by, , Jamie and Jamie, you gave a, a kind

Russ Haworth: 00:09:51

of a full introduction in, , the first episode of this series of the, , family

Russ Haworth: 00:09:56

business podcast, but why not give the, , readers digest version just

Russ Haworth: 00:10:02

to, , remind people who, who you're on and, , you know, why we're speaking.

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:06

well, first of all, I'm excited to be on and

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:09

do this with you, Maureen.

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:11

And of course you as well, Russ, um, probably, um, a psychologist

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:17

by background is important to note.

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:19

I've been working with, um, through a company called inheriting

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:24

wisdom of my, my wife and.

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:26

for probably the last 15 to 20 years and all the stuff that comes up behind

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:32

the money in high net worth families.

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:36

, about five years ago, , Russ and I started a qualitative research

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:41

study where we began asking rising gem from around the globe.

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:46

A simple question.

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:47

What is it like growing up in the lands of giant?

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:52

and it's been an amazing experience that has led to the writing of a book.

Jamie Weiner: 00:10:59

And within the next year will, um, lead to creating experiences

Jamie Weiner: 00:11:03

for rising gen family members.

Jamie Weiner: 00:11:06

So, good to be here.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:08

It's great to have us all on, uh, this,

Russ Haworth: 00:11:11

um, joint experience as well.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:13

And we we've mentioned a couple of times that PPI is kind of a common thread.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:19

Um, Jamie and I did a webinar for PPI members, which is where Maureen,

Russ Haworth: 00:11:24

you, you got to kind of meet us virtually for the, the first time.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:28

And our conversation started off the back of that.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:31

Um, we've all been to, uh, Ronda.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:34

in Denver this past week.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:37

Um, it's absolutely fantastic.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:39

I can't recommend.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:40

PPI highly enough.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:41

And, and they're not giving us anything in, in terms of of saying

Russ Haworth: 00:11:44

this, um, the community there is, is absolutely fantastic.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:47

And the conference is great, fun as well.

Russ Haworth: 00:11:51

Before we delve in a bit more into what we've been doing together, I thought

Russ Haworth: 00:11:54

it might be nice to share our personal highlights from the PPI conference,

Russ Haworth: 00:12:00

just to give people out there a feel for the type of, uh, community

Russ Haworth: 00:12:05

that's been created by, um, John a and, and brilliantly supported by.

Russ Haworth: 00:12:09

so I guess I'll start with you, Maureen, if we can, in terms of

Russ Haworth: 00:12:12

sharing your particular highlight.

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:15

Well, thanks Russ.

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:16

Uh, PPI purposeful planning Institute.

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:20

The theme this year was the fundamentals of human connection and really

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:25

what the three of us have done.

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:27

And, and with the team here at BK, it's been about connection.

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:30

Uh, so many highlights and, and really, I describe PPI as a think tank.

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:36

Of global thought leaders, uh, coming together again to share best

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:40

practices in how we serve families in a very meaningful and purposeful way.

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:45

Uh, there is so much collaboration within the organization and, uh, just open arms.

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:52

Uh, Russ gets more hugs from us Americans who tend to be very extroverted

Maureen Kelley: 00:12:56

in giving with our hugs, even post pandemic, but, um, The highlight for

Maureen Kelley: 00:13:01

me, uh, was again, coming together with people whom I've known over the years.

Maureen Kelley: 00:13:07

Uh, there were so many phenomenal presentations.

Maureen Kelley: 00:13:11

Um, you know, it's, again, it's, it's really all about the

Maureen Kelley: 00:13:14

people and it's sharing, uh, The best practices in how we serve.

Maureen Kelley: 00:13:19

Uh, gosh, there were so many great presentations, but, um, as you just

Maureen Kelley: 00:13:23

mentioned, Russ, I would encourage anyone who's looking to, uh, deepen

Maureen Kelley: 00:13:28

their practice and understand this paradigm shift in how we serve

Maureen Kelley: 00:13:32

to take a look at PPI highlight.

Maureen Kelley: 00:13:35

I guess candidly was meeting both of you in person.

Jamie Weiner: 00:13:41

I like that.

Russ Haworth: 00:13:45

Jamie, same question to you, then you'll highlight

Russ Haworth: 00:13:47

from, uh, the conference.

Jamie Weiner: 00:13:49

Well, of course spending some time with your more was the

Jamie Weiner: 00:13:52

highlight of the conference, but addition to that and you two Russ.

Jamie Weiner: 00:13:57

And in addition to that, I, I think the conference was an opportunity to really,

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:05

um, revel and announce the idea of wealth 3.0, the very idea that, um, The world

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:13

of wealth, doesn't live under a black cloud that the myth of short sleeves to

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:18

short sleeves in three generations is exactly that a myth rather than a reality.

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:24

And I think why that was so important, particularly Ross given what you and

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:30

I've done over the course of course of the last five years is we've

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:35

interviewed rising gen family members.

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:38

and they, they're not spoiled brats.

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:42

They're not rich kids.

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:44

Um, they're on a quest, to find meaning and purpose in the lives.

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:49

It's not always an easy quest, but you know, we've had an amazing experience.

Jamie Weiner: 00:14:55

It was amazing opportunity the conference to share it and to, um, run into

Jamie Weiner: 00:15:02

people who are handing down the book.

Jamie Weiner: 00:15:06

Quest for legitimacy to their rising John cuz that was the fantasy from day one.

Jamie Weiner: 00:15:12

When we started working on the book and then to spend time with Maureen at bank

Jamie Weiner: 00:15:18

of Oklahoma, which we'll talk about more was just the icing on the cake.

Russ Haworth: 00:15:24

Yeah, absolutely.

Russ Haworth: 00:15:25

I, I completely agree with that.

Russ Haworth: 00:15:26

And, and your highlight kind of leads into mine and it was so.

Russ Haworth: 00:15:34

It was just amazing to see people come up to you and give such

Russ Haworth: 00:15:39

positive feedback on the book.

Russ Haworth: 00:15:41

Now, obviously behind the scenes, we've been working on this for years, and I

Russ Haworth: 00:15:45

know just how much effort and love and care has gone into writing the book.

Russ Haworth: 00:15:51

And so for me to see that people.

Russ Haworth: 00:15:55

We, we knew it would resonate, but for people to come up to you with such sort

Russ Haworth: 00:16:00

of glowing praise and, and very emotional in terms of their own stories and how

Russ Haworth: 00:16:04

much it resonated with their own lives.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:07

Um, just again, for me captures how powerful the, the book is and

Russ Haworth: 00:16:12

what good it can do in the world.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:13

That was, um, a particular highlight.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:17

Obviously we presented together.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:18

That was great fun.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:19

And, uh, likewise meeting, uh, Maureen and the team in, in person was fantastic.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:25

We've been kind of doing all this stuff over zoom as, and when

Russ Haworth: 00:16:27

we can, can get an opportunity.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:30

Um, so those were my highlights, but again, for those, we we've made a

Russ Haworth: 00:16:34

reference to world 3.0, there is an episode of the podcast called wealth

Russ Haworth: 00:16:39

3.0, where we talked to Jim grub.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:42

Um, Dennis, Jeff and Kristen, Keer about this concept of world point.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:46

Oh, uh, sorry of wealth.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:48

3.0.

Russ Haworth: 00:16:49

So if you want to go back and have a listen to that, uh, we'll put a

Russ Haworth: 00:16:52

link in the show notes, um, for that.

Maureen Kelley: 00:16:55

I, I would love to add on to that thought because, uh, it

Maureen Kelley: 00:16:58

is truly thought leadership from Dr.

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:00

Grumman and J and Kristen Kefler, um, that there is this

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:04

paradigm shift in the industry.

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:06

And not only is it focusing on families in a.

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:10

Deeper meaningful way beyond the money, but it's also getting

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:14

away from a fear based approach that many of us had embraced.

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:17

You mentioned the shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations where

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:22

we're, we're looking at the positive, the strengths of the family and, you

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:26

know, whatever you focus on gets bigger.

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:28

And when we focus on the positive there it's more growth and strength space.

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:32

So this is a new, uh, again, I.

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:35

The thought leadership within the industry.

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:37

We are living this right now as advisors.

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:40

And, uh, I'm so glad that you, you reference that because the book

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:44

exemplifies that and your findings and how we, um, how we view, how

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:50

we see our clients and going into these relationships with more

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:53

empathy, you reference that they.

Maureen Kelley: 00:17:56

These, uh, entitled trust fund babies, the negative lens that we've held for so long.

Maureen Kelley: 00:18:01

So it's exciting to be in the industry as we're experiencing this shift.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:06

Yeah, absolutely.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:07

And it brings to mind a conversation that, um, we've had, um, before around

Russ Haworth: 00:18:13

the, the unconscious or sometimes conscious bias that we take into.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:19

Relationships, particularly advisory relationships.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:21

If we're going into those with the expectation of I'm gonna come

Russ Haworth: 00:18:24

across, spoke bras trust fund babies in, in entitlement, and you

Russ Haworth: 00:18:30

know, these poor attitudes towards money, it contain our, um, the way

Russ Haworth: 00:18:35

in which we approach, um, clients.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:38

And, and particularly with regards to, to the rising gen, if

Russ Haworth: 00:18:40

there is that label, and if you.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:42

Any kind of bias into any other relationship on any other

Russ Haworth: 00:18:46

basis such as gender or race.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:48

And it would, we would just inherently know how wrong that is.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:52

And yet, because it's something that is linked to wealth and this culture of.

Russ Haworth: 00:18:57

Kind of fear and trepidation that's that's placed around it.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:01

Um, it seems to be more sort of unnoticed in that sense.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:05

And I think world 3.0 is a real opportunity to, um, embrace the, the

Russ Haworth: 00:19:09

human connectiveness, uh, that, that we experienced at the conference.

Russ Haworth: 00:19:13

So, um, very valid points there on, on the relevance of what we're doing

Russ Haworth: 00:19:18

and, and world 3.0 particularly.

Jamie Weiner: 00:19:21

No, no disservice to the announcers of wealth, 3.0, you know, Dr.

Jamie Weiner: 00:19:26

Grubman and Jeffrey and Kristen Kefler.

Jamie Weiner: 00:19:31

I think there's, some of us have been operating with the understanding

Jamie Weiner: 00:19:34

that, um, there's much more potential in wealthy families and we've

Jamie Weiner: 00:19:39

been doing it for a long time.

Jamie Weiner: 00:19:41

And I think Russ in doing our research every time we open zoom and jumped into

Jamie Weiner: 00:19:50

the world of an interview with a rising gen family member, the notions in our

Jamie Weiner: 00:19:56

head that maybe we might run into a rich.

Jamie Weiner: 00:19:59

Just kept getting blown away and we kept meeting wonderful human beings completely.

Jamie Weiner: 00:20:07

You know, what appeared on some level was completely different from each

Jamie Weiner: 00:20:11

other, but all on a very, um, clear path to make a contribution to the

Jamie Weiner: 00:20:18

world, to do something different.

Jamie Weiner: 00:20:20

And, from a banking and wealth point of view, That really alters how we think

Jamie Weiner: 00:20:27

about trust, how we think about, when do you involve family members in the process?

Jamie Weiner: 00:20:33

I think it's just a bigger transition than we've really, you

Jamie Weiner: 00:20:37

know, wrapped our hands around.

Russ Haworth: 00:20:39

part of the work that we.

Russ Haworth: 00:20:42

Did together, it, it kind of broke down into to two parts, um,

Russ Haworth: 00:20:47

after the conference this week.

Russ Haworth: 00:20:48

So Mo you very kindly invited us to a, uh, dinner where there was some of

Russ Haworth: 00:20:54

your clients and some of your advisors, and you did a fantastic job of hosting

Russ Haworth: 00:21:00

a kind of a Q and a walkthrough of the process and, and what we'd done.

Russ Haworth: 00:21:06

Um, and then the following morning, we, um, sat with a team of.

Russ Haworth: 00:21:11

Advisors as well, helping them to understand the implications of

Russ Haworth: 00:21:14

the research on, on their work.

Russ Haworth: 00:21:17

We can talk about some of the specifics that happened in, in each of those, um, in

Russ Haworth: 00:21:21

a sec, but just from a, a broader level, what does it mean for you, particularly

Russ Haworth: 00:21:27

in your role, particularly with what bank of Oklahoma are trying to achieve?

Russ Haworth: 00:21:32

To bring in people like myself and Jamie who have been doing this research,

Russ Haworth: 00:21:37

it's not kind of traditional kind of continual professional development

Russ Haworth: 00:21:40

that we see, um, which tends to focus on the kind of investments and

Russ Haworth: 00:21:45

the, the technical side of things.

Russ Haworth: 00:21:47

What does it mean to you and, and you as an organization to, to be doing that?

Maureen Kelley: 00:21:52

you are completely right.

Maureen Kelley: 00:21:53

Uh, again, it's a shift in thinking for both of our clients and the

Maureen Kelley: 00:21:58

advisors within the organization.

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:00

You know, we talked about human capital and, um, it's having you,

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:07

Jamie and Russ come in and meet with our clients and have dialogue.

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:12

That was very different.

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:13

And we're gonna talk a little bit about the events and what that looked

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:16

like, but one of the comments to me.

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:18

Thank you.

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:19

This has been an amazing dinner and talking about a topic that, you

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:24

know, it wasn't as that allocation, this was so refreshing and so

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:28

meaningful, uh, that they so fully enjoyed it and asked for more.

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:34

They wanna know when you're both coming back.

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:36

Uh, and then from the advisory perspective, Sometimes we think

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:42

advisors can get caught in the curse of knowledge that they understand

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:46

their business so well, they understand their technical aspects of their job.

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:50

So well that there's a tendency to talk beyond and not getting into

Maureen Kelley: 00:22:56

these, relationships and, and dynamics around wealth and what the impact.

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:01

and I think often advisors will avoid that because it feels I'm not qualified.

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:06

It can get messy.

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:07

I don't wanna go down that path, but bringing you in and facilitating

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:12

conversation, you're sharing about the book and about your research and

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:17

what you learned from these families.

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:19

It was.

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:20

A breath of fresh air for both of our clients and the team.

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:24

And again, that's what I'm trying to do here is to, in introduce a new

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:28

program, embrace the human capital side, the softer side of the balance sheet.

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:33

We, we say sometimes.

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:35

So what could be more powerful than hearing the stories and the research

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:40

in what you both have, have discovered and sharing that with both again,

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:45

clients and advisors, it was very different and highly appreciated.

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:50

You know, all, all the way around.

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:51

So, um, it, it proved to us, it was proof of concept to, I think, both of you

Maureen Kelley: 00:23:56

and to me as the director, that, um, is this meaningful and we need to do more.

Maureen Kelley: 00:24:01

This.

Russ Haworth: 00:24:02

Yeah, absolutely.

Russ Haworth: 00:24:03

And I'm curious as well, uh, Jamie putting you on the spot a little bit,

Russ Haworth: 00:24:07

cuz we, we didn't discuss this off air in, in terms of a, a, an approach, but,

Russ Haworth: 00:24:11

uh, I'm curious as to your expectations of what the dinner might be and how the

Russ Haworth: 00:24:17

reality may have either lived up to that or differed from those expectations.

Jamie Weiner: 00:24:25

You know what a great thing to talk about.

Jamie Weiner: 00:24:28

You, you go into a room, particularly with family members there and.

Jamie Weiner: 00:24:32

Hope that some magic would take place in the room.

Jamie Weiner: 00:24:36

And the magic may be as simple as creating a safe space that allows somebody

Jamie Weiner: 00:24:41

to open up and begin a conversation about, what does it mean growing up in

Jamie Weiner: 00:24:46

the land of giants with their quest?

Jamie Weiner: 00:24:50

and yet I, I was amazed that it really happened, you know, You know, I had no

Jamie Weiner: 00:24:55

doubt that people would enjoy having dinner and being in a room with other

Jamie Weiner: 00:25:01

families, knowing they're not so long, but the moment one of the rising gen

Jamie Weiner: 00:25:06

family members opened up about some of the struggles of coming from a wealthy

Jamie Weiner: 00:25:11

family with their parent in the room.

Jamie Weiner: 00:25:15

And everybody sort of, you could see the change.

Jamie Weiner: 00:25:17

You could feel the shift in the room was sort of.

Jamie Weiner: 00:25:22

That's really the highlight of this whole project that we've been

Jamie Weiner: 00:25:26

doing , working together, to see if we can start to make a difference.

Jamie Weiner: 00:25:31

and as, as great as the whole week had been, it's kind of

Jamie Weiner: 00:25:35

a high point of the week for.

Russ Haworth: 00:25:37

Yeah, I agree.

Russ Haworth: 00:25:38

And, and.

Russ Haworth: 00:25:40

I had similar hopes.

Russ Haworth: 00:25:40

I would hope that it would resonate because obviously that's what

Russ Haworth: 00:25:44

we experienced, um, through the, uh, the interview side of things.

Russ Haworth: 00:25:49

Um, I think what it also provided and am more interested

Russ Haworth: 00:25:52

in your view on this is gem.

Russ Haworth: 00:25:55

And I obviously had broadly similar experiences with each of the

Russ Haworth: 00:25:59

participants that we spoke with now that that was the first time, uh,

Russ Haworth: 00:26:03

in person at that kind of event.

Russ Haworth: 00:26:06

But we had that kind of experience.

Russ Haworth: 00:26:08

Each time we, um, spoke to the rising gen from wherever they were

Russ Haworth: 00:26:13

in the world, normally over zoom.

Russ Haworth: 00:26:15

Um, and it, I'm curious as to what kind of insight it gave you

Russ Haworth: 00:26:19

to that experience of hearing the stories and how much it resonated.

Russ Haworth: 00:26:24

Um, in particular, within the room, we were.

Maureen Kelley: 00:26:27

Yeah.

Maureen Kelley: 00:26:28

It all ties together so beautifully.

Maureen Kelley: 00:26:30

Remember the theme of the conference was the fundamentals of human connect.

Maureen Kelley: 00:26:34

. And what transpired as you shared the research and told the stories that

Maureen Kelley: 00:26:40

the people in the room, the clients, the families, uh, there was, there

Maureen Kelley: 00:26:45

became, um, um, a vulnerability.

Maureen Kelley: 00:26:48

And once this young rising gen family member began to share, and

Maureen Kelley: 00:26:52

these were people who didn't know each other, um, the chemistry in

Maureen Kelley: 00:26:56

the room was really remarkable and people did share and they opened up

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:00

and they talked about what it was.

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:02

Coming from the UK, with nothing came to the United States and, you know,

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:06

created significant wealth, but the fear and the vulnerability that you

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:10

know, happened in that process, all of our guests shared, and you never know

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:15

how, what the chemistry is gonna be or what the experience is gonna be like.

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:19

But I think that at the core hearing about what the families

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:24

that you had researched hearing.

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:26

Those journeys and those personal stories gave people permission to say,

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:31

wow, this is what it was like for me.

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:33

And so that room chemistry, I think the advisors were really, uh, amazed.

Maureen Kelley: 00:27:38

I think all of us in the room left feeling, um, really enriched

Russ Haworth: 00:27:43

Mm, and I think it's, um, fair to point out as well, that,

Russ Haworth: 00:27:48

that the feedback that came from again, the, the rising gen in particular, who

Russ Haworth: 00:27:53

was, were able to share their story and their experience, the importance

Russ Haworth: 00:27:58

of the advisors that they had in their.

Russ Haworth: 00:28:02

In particular, one member of your team who was, possibly, um, went a bit rosy

Russ Haworth: 00:28:08

cheeked, uh, at this stage because of the powerful impact that they had

Russ Haworth: 00:28:13

had on this particular person's life.

Russ Haworth: 00:28:15

And again, from your perspective, I'm assuming that's.

Russ Haworth: 00:28:19

A very positive thing to hear is that these human connections and I've

Russ Haworth: 00:28:24

worked, my background is, is financial planning and wealth management.

Russ Haworth: 00:28:27

And sometimes you can feel kind of stifled in the conversations you want

Russ Haworth: 00:28:31

to have because you are restricted by the boundaries of that profession.

Russ Haworth: 00:28:35

I learned to, to overcome that.

Russ Haworth: 00:28:37

And it, you know, there's members of your team that have done exactly that as

Russ Haworth: 00:28:40

well, but I know how much of a challenge that can be, but it must be great for

Russ Haworth: 00:28:44

you to hear that from, um, people.

Russ Haworth: 00:28:46

And again, there was no kind of, um, expectation of, of that to be the case.

Russ Haworth: 00:28:51

It was just something that naturally happened.

Maureen Kelley: 00:28:53

It just unfolded.

Maureen Kelley: 00:28:54

Um, and I think, you know, that was an example of how this one young advisor.

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:00

Rising Jen herself, um, had took the time to really get to know her clients.

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:06

And I think this is when you talk about 1.0 2.0, well, 3.0 as advisors, we're

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:13

trained to disseminate information.

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:14

We're trained to be the experts we're trained in technical

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:18

and fundamental analysis.

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:19

And clients come to us for our advice and counsel, here's the shift.

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:24

We need to listen more than we.

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:27

and we, it was demonstrated so clearly with this one advisor and client

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:32

relationship that you'd described Russ.

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:34

And I think everyone in the room was, um, It was just so touched by the

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:39

depth and her, the mother went on to say, the reason we are with B okay.

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:45

Is because of the relationship that this young trust officer has and

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:49

the time she has spent with our daughter in educating and helping

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:53

her with her own money journey.

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:54

So we saw it firsthand.

Maureen Kelley: 00:29:56

You couldn't write that.

Jamie Weiner: 00:29:58

Okay.

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:00

If I could just add a comment about watching.

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:03

It, it just thrilled me because it was really clear that both the mother enjoyed

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:11

the fact that somebody at the bank could explain something to the daughter

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:17

that she couldn't find her way around to explain and vice that the daughter

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:24

could have a relationship with a trust officer, which is not always the case.

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:29

Right.

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:30

I mean, that.

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:33

Personal enough that she felt she could learn in a way that she wasn't able to

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:38

learn in other ways was just, it was just a beautiful thing to, to observe

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:44

and speak very highly for, be okay.

Jamie Weiner: 00:30:48

So, I was thrilled to, to be there, to observe it.

Maureen Kelley: 00:30:51

and then we saw it in a different light the next

Maureen Kelley: 00:30:54

day, as, as we brought this same story to the advisors, representing

Maureen Kelley: 00:31:00

all different lines of business, I think there were 40 people there.

Maureen Kelley: 00:31:03

Um, but we were also able to share what we experienced the night

Maureen Kelley: 00:31:06

before and to, I mean, many of these advisors, they are not familiar.

Maureen Kelley: 00:31:13

Human capital and this type of, uh, approach to advising.

Maureen Kelley: 00:31:17

So it was incredibly meaningful for them as well to hear.

Maureen Kelley: 00:31:23

And, and I have to, um, give you all the credit for, for the foundation was

Maureen Kelley: 00:31:28

your sharing of the research and what you learned and what you took away.

Maureen Kelley: 00:31:32

And so, Again, from a client perspective and then from an advisor

Maureen Kelley: 00:31:37

perspective, which is what I'm trying to implement at be okay.

Maureen Kelley: 00:31:41

Uh, it was very, very powerful and rewarding.

Russ Haworth: 00:31:44

Yeah.

Russ Haworth: 00:31:44

I think the, what the dinner highlighted as well is when you create an environment

Russ Haworth: 00:31:51

where clients feel safe, where they feel they can share and, and bear in mind.

Russ Haworth: 00:31:58

There were relationships in the room where clients knew advisors,

Russ Haworth: 00:32:01

but that, that was almost those kind of one to one relationship.

Russ Haworth: 00:32:04

There was another 20 of people in the room that, um, were strangers in that

Russ Haworth: 00:32:10

respect, but the environment that was created, even though it was in.

Russ Haworth: 00:32:14

We were in a, a private room, but in a restaurant, essentially.

Russ Haworth: 00:32:17

So it was still out in the, kind of the, the big white world.

Russ Haworth: 00:32:22

The, the environment that allowed that sharing to happen is so important.

Russ Haworth: 00:32:27

And if there were advisors that are listening, who are going, I wonder how we

Russ Haworth: 00:32:31

can strive ourselves to get to, to that.

Russ Haworth: 00:32:35

My tip at this stage in, in sort of the experience that we've had is, is creating

Russ Haworth: 00:32:40

the environment where the rising gen feel.

Russ Haworth: 00:32:43

Heard where they feel.

Russ Haworth: 00:32:44

They have a voice where people are listening to their experience and their

Russ Haworth: 00:32:48

stories, rather than talking at them and focusing on here's, how to run money.

Russ Haworth: 00:32:54

Here's how to, which is all important.

Russ Haworth: 00:32:56

We're not saying that that's not important, but the, the importance of

Russ Haworth: 00:32:59

that connection around their experience, I think is again, what showed up in that,

Russ Haworth: 00:33:05

uh, room, um, on that, uh, on that night.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:08

Yeah.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:09

You know, I've, I've shared with both of you.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:11

I, I love the book.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:12

I think the book was very meaningful.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:15

Um, and I, as I've said, um, I, I read it through two lenses, one as

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:20

an advisor and one just as a person.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:23

Just as a mother and a grandmother.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:25

And if I can, if you indulge me, this is one of my favorite.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:28

I mean, it resonated with me and my own personal journey, my own life story.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:33

Uh, if I can read this part of the appeal of taking the quest is it is open ended.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:39

There is no X marks, the spot final ending point.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:42

There is no clear point where one has finished the quest.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:46

The path is not a straight line.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:48

Legitimacy is not a destination being on the quest is its own.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:54

and I think that speaks to me in my career path.

Maureen Kelley: 00:33:58

I think that we're all on a quest within our lives.

Maureen Kelley: 00:34:01

I think that my dad was my giant without a.

Maureen Kelley: 00:34:05

Um, so the words Jamie, as, as you, as you told the stories and wove

Maureen Kelley: 00:34:09

your own story throughout the book, I could hear your voice and there's

Maureen Kelley: 00:34:13

just, um, just so much, uh, humility in your giant story with your father.

Maureen Kelley: 00:34:19

Um, so I, this book is for anyone, anyone who's on their, their own life journey.

Maureen Kelley: 00:34:24

Um, but certainly again for us as advisors and.

Maureen Kelley: 00:34:27

We have many copies of these here at BK, our clients are gonna be

Maureen Kelley: 00:34:32

receiving them on a regular basis.

Maureen Kelley: 00:34:34

And, um, we're just so appreciative.

Jamie Weiner: 00:34:38

Thanks for reading that something I couldn't do myself,

Jamie Weiner: 00:34:41

but strange to hear my words come back, but, uh, but delightful.

Jamie Weiner: 00:34:46

So thank you.

Russ Haworth: 00:34:48

I just, if we can, I just want to spend a little bit more

Russ Haworth: 00:34:52

time talking from the perspective of the advisor group that we spoke with

Russ Haworth: 00:34:58

and particularly some of the kind of questions and, um, conversations that,

Russ Haworth: 00:35:04

that we had at the end, when, when sort of we, we broke out and, and the

Russ Haworth: 00:35:08

individual sort of conversations happened.

Russ Haworth: 00:35:12

One of the questions that Jamie and I had when we were putting the kind of

Russ Haworth: 00:35:16

structure of it together was kind of the, the, so what, why is this relevant?

Russ Haworth: 00:35:21

If, if I'm in, let's just pull something out of the sky commercial lending, why

Russ Haworth: 00:35:26

does it matter that I understand what's going on in the lives of the rising gen

Russ Haworth: 00:35:32

of the families that I'm working with?

Russ Haworth: 00:35:35

To a certain extent.

Russ Haworth: 00:35:36

That's a very valid question because the role there is to arrange

Russ Haworth: 00:35:41

the commercial lending, right?

Russ Haworth: 00:35:42

It's not necessarily to go and delve into the, the lies experiences of

Russ Haworth: 00:35:47

the rising gen, but, but I'm curious, and this is open to, to both of you,

Russ Haworth: 00:35:52

whoever, whoever wants to go first in terms of why this is so relevant,

Russ Haworth: 00:35:56

irrespective of what role you play in clients' lives to, to understand that.

Russ Haworth: 00:36:01

And we are all on this quest.

Russ Haworth: 00:36:02

So, so anyone listening now, you are on your own quest as well.

Russ Haworth: 00:36:05

So this is relevant to, to yourself, if not the, the

Russ Haworth: 00:36:09

clients that you, um, work with.

Russ Haworth: 00:36:11

So perhaps add some flesh to, to that in terms of, why we think

Russ Haworth: 00:36:16

it's so relevant that advisors and understand what's going on here.

Jamie Weiner: 00:36:20

you know, I, I think there was a moment where a couple

Jamie Weiner: 00:36:23

of people who make loans and I think they were the commercial loans folks.

Jamie Weiner: 00:36:28

and we had kind of a private moment.

Jamie Weiner: 00:36:31

And the moment that you realize that at a moment when people are making

Jamie Weiner: 00:36:35

loans, , there's usually something going on in the background of that loan.

Jamie Weiner: 00:36:40

And although the, the objective is to get the loan and to have a transaction,

Jamie Weiner: 00:36:46

particularly any form of real estate, um, heightens human emotions, heightened

Jamie Weiner: 00:36:52

stress, in multi-generational families.

Jamie Weiner: 00:36:55

Loans can be made by one generation and, um, be to the

Jamie Weiner: 00:36:59

benefit of the next generation.

Jamie Weiner: 00:37:02

So having some understanding of what's going on behind the transaction, opens

Jamie Weiner: 00:37:09

the door to just even simple questions about how are you doing what's going on?

Jamie Weiner: 00:37:14

Tell me a little bit about your family.

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:16

Yeah, I think any of us in financial services are very aware

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:20

that, um, this is a relationship business and we need to get to know our clients.

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:25

Um, we need to understand what is important to them and, and values.

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:29

But Russ, as you were asking the question, it also occurs to me too,

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:34

that you know, our people open to it.

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:36

Now we we've come through this pandemic and numbers are all

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:40

over and who knows where we are, we'll know, looking back, but.

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:44

I, I think this theme of con connection and isolation in that,

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:49

um, we've all gone through so much.

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:51

And so the need to come back and really relate to each other, whether

Maureen Kelley: 00:37:56

you're a banker or an investment manager or, or whatever your role

Maureen Kelley: 00:38:00

is within an institution, uh, just coming together for connection,

Maureen Kelley: 00:38:05

you know, the, the time is right.

Maureen Kelley: 00:38:07

And, and maybe, uh, does this resonate, did the experience that we just had

Maureen Kelley: 00:38:11

with both clients and with advisors?

Maureen Kelley: 00:38:14

It was very impactful.

Maureen Kelley: 00:38:15

I think for all of us, certainly for the three of us and all the people who

Maureen Kelley: 00:38:19

participated is that need for connection.

Maureen Kelley: 00:38:22

Um, just so accentuated for all of us right now.

Maureen Kelley: 00:38:25

So the timing could not have been better and the content it's authentic, you know,

Maureen Kelley: 00:38:31

just so much authenticity in all of.

Russ Haworth: 00:38:34

yeah, and I, I think as well, what we experienced, I don't

Russ Haworth: 00:38:38

wanna speak for, um, Jamie, but I, I think this is true in terms of

Russ Haworth: 00:38:42

what we experienced is the culture within which the business operates.

Russ Haworth: 00:38:47

And this is not just a single.

Russ Haworth: 00:38:49

Um, be okay, financial, it it's, uh, you know, it can be present in

Russ Haworth: 00:38:53

other organizations as well, but the, the ability to safely explore

Russ Haworth: 00:38:58

these kinds of topics to be given the permission, to be able to explore

Russ Haworth: 00:39:03

these types of topics is so important because we are all human beings.

Russ Haworth: 00:39:09

Um, I've said this a, a couple of times, both in, in the work we've done together.

Russ Haworth: 00:39:13

And I think in terms of this podcast, , series, we we're

Russ Haworth: 00:39:17

all trying to get through.

Russ Haworth: 00:39:19

Well for the first time in our own life, right?

Russ Haworth: 00:39:22

Every day is a new experience and we're all coming across it for the first time.

Russ Haworth: 00:39:26

And we are all human beings, irrespective of what box we sit in,

Russ Haworth: 00:39:29

whether we are a technical advisor, whether we sit in a legal space or an

Russ Haworth: 00:39:34

accounting space or financial, however that might sit, we are all human

Russ Haworth: 00:39:38

beings and we all experience fear.

Russ Haworth: 00:39:40

We all experience emotion.

Russ Haworth: 00:39:42

And, uh, I think what we saw within.

Russ Haworth: 00:39:46

Um, group experience that we had both with clients and with advisors is that

Russ Haworth: 00:39:51

it's okay to talk about this stuff.

Russ Haworth: 00:39:53

And I think the, the pandemic has helped, um, in, in, uh, a

Russ Haworth: 00:39:58

kind of a strange sense it is.

Russ Haworth: 00:40:00

We talk about, uh, breaking moments and, and periods of liminality.

Russ Haworth: 00:40:04

COVID is a huge breaking moment for every human being, the period we've seen

Russ Haworth: 00:40:09

where we're kind of a bit be tweaked.

Russ Haworth: 00:40:10

And between afterwards is this huge global moment of liminality

Russ Haworth: 00:40:14

that we're all experiencing.

Russ Haworth: 00:40:16

So we have that common thread amongst us of this, um, experience and being

Russ Haworth: 00:40:22

able to talk about it and share, um, our experiences is such a valuable

Russ Haworth: 00:40:26

part of building relationships.

Maureen Kelley: 00:40:28

Yeah, could couldn't agree with you more.

Maureen Kelley: 00:40:30

And that has certainly been my experience in financial therapy.

Maureen Kelley: 00:40:34

It's providing a safe space.

Maureen Kelley: 00:40:36

Money is still the last taboo.

Maureen Kelley: 00:40:38

There's shame, there's guilt, there's all kinds of emotions with money.

Maureen Kelley: 00:40:42

And so it you're capturing this same concept that, uh, safe space, the

Maureen Kelley: 00:40:47

ability to talk about it is, uh, often for people just a tremendous.

Maureen Kelley: 00:40:53

and shared experiences definitely allow for that.

, Russ Haworth: 00:40:57

I'm gonna take host privilege now and put, uh, both of you on

, Russ Haworth: 00:41:01

the spot, uh, in terms of any questions that you might have of anyone else.

, Russ Haworth: 00:41:07

Uh, that's on the show now I'm.

, Russ Haworth: 00:41:09

Realize that you might now ask me a question I'm notorious for.

, Russ Haworth: 00:41:13

Um, I'm a host for a reason is I like asking the questions.

, Russ Haworth: 00:41:17

Um, but, but if there's any questions that you kind of have got on your mind about

, Russ Haworth: 00:41:22

what we experience together and, and how that played out, I think it'd be quite

, Russ Haworth: 00:41:25

good fun to, uh, explore some of that.

Jamie Weiner: 00:41:28

yeah.

Jamie Weiner: 00:41:28

I want to ask Maureen, are you kind of aware that, what we did

Jamie Weiner: 00:41:32

was kind of breaking some ground.

Jamie Weiner: 00:41:34

In the banking space and I'm complimenting you as part of

Jamie Weiner: 00:41:40

this as well, it's pretty rare.

Jamie Weiner: 00:41:43

Isn't it for to get a group, a group of family members and stay completely

Jamie Weiner: 00:41:49

on, um, the human side of it and talk about, um, to have emotions come up in

Jamie Weiner: 00:41:55

a room of families and then to touch in.

Jamie Weiner: 00:42:00

On advisors and say pay attention there.

Jamie Weiner: 00:42:04

There's a, those are human beings who are sitting in front of you,

Jamie Weiner: 00:42:08

with quote financial issues.

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:11

Uh, completely Jamie.

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:12

And that's why I'm so thankful for you to, for us to have collaborated

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:17

in this way, to bring this to both our clients and advisors, um, And

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:23

remember I'm creating a program.

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:26

So there's a, an element of, uh, shift in mindset and introducing this to

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:32

people where, as I said, sometimes this can be a little uncomfortable.

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:36

So, It was absolutely groundbreaking for me to be able to do this.

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:41

I've described this to you as this was our, this was our,

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:43

our kickoff, our introduction.

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:45

Now you're a tough act to follow.

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:47

Thank you very much.

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:48

Um, but it was, um, yes, I think within this regional bank that is, you know,

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:54

Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado.

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:57

this is all new.

Maureen Kelley: 00:42:59

And so first I have to begin with the advisors and to help guide them

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:04

and influence and, and demonstrate, which is what we did demonstrate

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:09

that this is the real deal.

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:11

This is what matters.

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:12

So, yes.

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:13

Thank you.

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:14

It's you know, as we've been planning this now for 10 months, because you were coming

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:18

to Denver, Thanks to the PPI conference, we were able to make this happen.

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:23

And this is the fun part.

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:25

You know, the three of us have been talking about this for months,

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:28

and I think it exceeded all of our expert expectations in every way.

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:34

And, uh, the meaningful connection, uh, now be okay, wants more of.

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:40

They wanna know what's next.

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:42

And so it's, you know, it's one at a time influencing culture like this, and it

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:47

comes back to wealth 3.0, it's a shift in financial services in how we serve.

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:53

So, um, having great partners like you, I think my question

Maureen Kelley: 00:43:57

to you both is what's next?

Maureen Kelley: 00:44:00

How do we keep it going?

Maureen Kelley: 00:44:01

How do we gather that momentum and keep it.

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:06

Such a great question, Maureen.

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:07

I I'm sure Russ has got tons of ideas as well.

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:11

I think the beauty of the dinner that we did was it just open stuff up.

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:18

And I think the conversation is what do you do once you open?

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:21

Once you open the conversation up?

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:23

how do you make sure it reverberates?

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:25

over time, I think that's also true with the advisors.

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:31

Little harder and in a, a group for them to open up.

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:36

And so, you know, they walked out of the room and they knew

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:39

something was going on inside.

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:41

would love to hear what they thought when they walked out the door.

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:46

, you know, cuz it probably is very different than what, I

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:51

don't know what they expect.

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:53

Right.

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:55

so I, I, I think the future is really intriguing in, in

Jamie Weiner: 00:44:59

terms of where we go from here.

Maureen Kelley: 00:45:01

Yeah.

Maureen Kelley: 00:45:02

You know, Jamie, I wanna add to your thoughts and Russ really compliment you

Maureen Kelley: 00:45:07

because especially in the advisory event, you as a, as an advisor and you've been in

Maureen Kelley: 00:45:12

this space, you've walked in their shoes, you were able to speak directly to them.

Maureen Kelley: 00:45:17

And I think that message really, and truly ed.

Maureen Kelley: 00:45:21

The feedback, you know, since then has been, um, nothing short of

Maureen Kelley: 00:45:25

amazing, but I think you really connected with our advisors.

Maureen Kelley: 00:45:28

Plus we all love hearing you say podcast.

Russ Haworth: 00:45:33

so this is the first

Jamie Weiner: 00:45:34

That's not me, Russ.

Russ Haworth: 00:45:35

a thing.

Russ Haworth: 00:45:36

Yeah,

Jamie Weiner: 00:45:37

okay.

Russ Haworth: 00:45:38

this is the first time it kind of highlighted.

Russ Haworth: 00:45:40

The, the British accent side of it and the, uh, the word podcast.

Russ Haworth: 00:45:45

Yeah.

Russ Haworth: 00:45:45

Um, I, I, um, I, I've made a, a promise to one of the, um, participants as

Russ Haworth: 00:45:51

well, uh, that will change the title of the podcast to the imaginatively

Russ Haworth: 00:45:56

titled family business podcast.

Russ Haworth: 00:45:57

Cause when I introduced it the dinner, they thought that was the

Russ Haworth: 00:46:00

full title was the imaginatively titled family business podcast.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:04

So I might, I might sneak that onto the, the logo, um, uh,

Russ Haworth: 00:46:07

incoming weeks and months.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:09

Um, what one.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:10

Uh, point that I, uh, just want to make into, in terms of what we were just

Russ Haworth: 00:46:14

talking about there around, particularly on the advisor side is I, if we are, and

Russ Haworth: 00:46:20

I believe we all are focused on truly exceptional outcomes for the clients

Russ Haworth: 00:46:26

that we work with, that that is what drives us in terms of what we want to do.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:31

We want to have a positive impact on the lives of those that we work with.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:36

We can't do that single handedly.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:38

And by introducing these types of concepts into advisory teams, I think

Russ Haworth: 00:46:43

the challenge and the excitement lies around how you embed that behavior as.

Russ Haworth: 00:46:48

Like normal practice business as usual, almost because the, I I've been to

Russ Haworth: 00:46:55

conferences before where you make tons of notes and you come away with loads

Russ Haworth: 00:46:58

of ideas and you sit back down at your desk on the, the following Monday morning

Russ Haworth: 00:47:02

and there's 250 emails and there's a load of stuff in kind of on your desk.

Russ Haworth: 00:47:07

And you're just kind of right.

Russ Haworth: 00:47:07

I'll get through that.

Russ Haworth: 00:47:09

And sometimes that momentum can be lost in terms of the excitement

Russ Haworth: 00:47:13

and, um, motivation that comes.

Russ Haworth: 00:47:16

An experience like that.

Russ Haworth: 00:47:17

And I think that's where your role, uh, in particular Maureen is, is

Russ Haworth: 00:47:21

such, uh, an exciting one because you kind of get to do that, right.

Russ Haworth: 00:47:26

You're the, the lucky one that gets to, to bring in these things, to maintain

Russ Haworth: 00:47:29

that type of momentum with within the organization and what it's gonna look

Russ Haworth: 00:47:34

like in 12 months time compared to what it looked like 12 months ago as well,

Russ Haworth: 00:47:38

is, is just really exciting to, to.

Maureen Kelley: 00:47:42

Yeah.

Maureen Kelley: 00:47:42

Thank you, Russ.

Maureen Kelley: 00:47:43

I, I certainly hope that's the vision and anytime you're trying

Maureen Kelley: 00:47:47

to influence culture, you have to have realistic expectations.

Maureen Kelley: 00:47:53

Candidly.

Maureen Kelley: 00:47:53

It may not be for everyone.

Maureen Kelley: 00:47:54

This may not resonate with everyone.

Maureen Kelley: 00:47:57

Um, but it's the human connection and that's the, that's the foundation.

Russ Haworth: 00:48:03

Yeah, fantastic.

Russ Haworth: 00:48:04

is there anything that we needed to have covered in our conversation

Russ Haworth: 00:48:09

today that, um, we haven't done?

Russ Haworth: 00:48:11

So any questions you wish I'd asked that I hadn't.

Maureen Kelley: 00:48:15

I think, as we've now walked away from it with, you know, so

Maureen Kelley: 00:48:19

many months of planning and envisioning what this could have been, I think for

Maureen Kelley: 00:48:24

myself, and I know, you know, it just exceeded our expectations and it, it

Maureen Kelley: 00:48:30

demonstrates the gift of collaboration that we all come together with different

Maureen Kelley: 00:48:36

backgrounds, with different stories.

Maureen Kelley: 00:48:39

Um, and, and that, um, what we experienced was.

Maureen Kelley: 00:48:44

just tremendously beneficial for us, again, as individuals, as advisors

Maureen Kelley: 00:48:50

in whatever capacity that is.

Maureen Kelley: 00:48:51

And just the power in collaboration.

Maureen Kelley: 00:48:54

I think as an advisor for so many years, you cannot do this alone.

Maureen Kelley: 00:49:00

And when we share our best ideas in how we serve.

Maureen Kelley: 00:49:03

Uh, we are just so much more effective and can do so much more.

Maureen Kelley: 00:49:07

And that speaks to the O my purpose in my life.

Maureen Kelley: 00:49:10

And what is it that I, on my quest, what is it that I'm trying to accomplish?

Maureen Kelley: 00:49:14

And so when we meet on this journey, it's truly a gift.

Russ Haworth: 00:49:19

Fantastic.

Russ Haworth: 00:49:20

Thank you.

Russ Haworth: 00:49:20

And Jamie, any kind of closing thoughts from you?

Jamie Weiner: 00:49:23

Yeah, I'm just, I'm so thrilled that you came to the states,

Jamie Weiner: 00:49:28

you know, and that we got to spend some time together and both personally and

Jamie Weiner: 00:49:32

professionally, cuz beyond being a I'm not sure I even C even said, oh podcaster.

Jamie Weiner: 00:49:39

Um, Morgan will have to help me with that.

Jamie Weiner: 00:49:43

Um, you just have been.

Jamie Weiner: 00:49:46

an essential part of this whole project and the work, you know what

Jamie Weiner: 00:49:50

we did together with bank of Oklahoma.

Jamie Weiner: 00:49:53

So thank you.

Russ Haworth: 00:49:54

Thank you.

Russ Haworth: 00:49:55

And.

Russ Haworth: 00:49:56

Before I blush anymore.

Russ Haworth: 00:49:57

I think that's, , a really good, , point for us to bring our

Russ Haworth: 00:50:01

discussions to our conclusions.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:03

So Maureen, thank you so much for joining us on the show and obviously

Russ Haworth: 00:50:08

for, for the collaboration that, that we've just experienced together.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:11

It was certainly a highlight of my year, if not, beyond in, in that sense.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:16

, and, , again, Jamie, thank you for joining us and, , sharing

Russ Haworth: 00:50:20

your thoughts and, and expertise.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:22

A particular topic.

Jamie Weiner: 00:50:24

Same here.

Maureen Kelley: 00:50:24

same here, gentlemen, art fells.

Maureen Kelley: 00:50:27

Thanks.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:37

So I hope you enjoyed that interview with Maureen and Jamie.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:42

And did you spot the deliberate error?

Russ Haworth: 00:50:45

, That era is normally.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:46

Normally I ask all my guests at the end of each interview.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:50

How you, the audience can get in touch and.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:54

I failed to do that on this occasion.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:56

So I'm here to let you know.

Russ Haworth: 00:50:59

, if you want to get in touch with Maureen, you are able to email her.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:03

Her email address is M Kelly, which is K E L L E Y.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:09

At B O K F.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:11

Dot com.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:13

If you want to get in touch with Jamie, you can find him on LinkedIn, or you can

Russ Haworth: 00:51:18

head to the quest for legitimacy website, which is quest for legitimacy.com.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:25

We also have an email address there, which is hello@questforlegitimacy.com.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:30

Where you can get in touch to find out more about the research.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:34

And the book.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:35

So, as I mentioned.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:36

And, , actually on last week's show, going to have a bit of a break now

Russ Haworth: 00:51:39

over the summer with more episodes coming your way in September.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:43

So until then, , please do keep getting in touch with your

Russ Haworth: 00:51:47

thoughts and comments on the shows.

Russ Haworth: 00:51:50

, but new episodes coming out in September and I look forward to bringing you