Speaker, author, and Founder/CEO of Lead From Within, Lolly Daskal, digs into filling in your gaps, standing in your greatness, owning who you are, the need to R.E.T.H.I.N.K., how capabilities + competence = confidence, the need to give up control to lead more effectively, and realizing that greatness is not a destiny only granted to a few.

Lolly Daskal, she's an amazing woman. First of all, she

is one of the most popular writers for Inc, and she has

over 1.2 million Twitter followers. It's probably more

than that even by now. She's written for HBr, Fast Company,

Huffington Post Psychology Today. And she writes almost

exclusively pretty much exclusively on leadership, and

she is the CEO of Lead From Within. And her first book, it's

called The Leadership Gap: What Gets Between You and Your

Greatness. She's here with me today by special invite. So

Lolly, welcome to the show.

I have been looking forward to this. And

thank you for inviting me. I'm looking forward to our

conversation.

Yeah, well, and I know you've had some pretty big

honors, I mean, being in the top 50 leadership and management

expert by Inc. I saw it one point that Huffington Post

called you the most inspiring woman in the world, which is

pretty cool. So I was curious about who inspires you.

So I've been inspired by three particular

people. And guess what never met them. The first one is Viktor

Frankl. I read his book, The Man's Search for Meaning. And it

changed my life. I read another book by Joseph Campbell. And it

changed my life. I read a book by Carl Gustav Jung, and it

changed my life. Now these three mentors have shaped who I am,

and what I do in the world, how I coach how I do business

consulting. And actually, because of them, I've taken

their three teachings and implemented into, you know, the

service that I do for others. And this was what inspired my

system. And now I write about my system in the leadership gap.

In terms of the leadership gap, what would you say is

different or new, or what's sort of the unique slant or the angle

or the what's the what is the part that forwards the thinking

of what's been written already on leadership?

So there are two parts very particular parts,

what makes this book different number one is most of you don't

know, maybe none of you know, but I read a book a day, and I

read about leadership, and I read about business, and most of

the books will talk to you about how most of the books will tell

you when, and where. And recently, we had a book will

tell you even why. And what I found is, especially in

philosophy, most of the writings about how to take us to

greatness and how to succeed, talks about who you are being.

And so I decided that I was going to write my book about who

you are being while you are living and while you are living.

So that's one difference. Number two is is that I have found that

there are also books about archetypes and personas and

traits and skills about leadership. Or what I haven't

found anywhere in a leadership book or in a business book, that

will teach you that you're very seen strengths can have a

weakness, and instead of saying, let's not concentrate on the

weakness, I teach you how to leverage that weakness. I call

those weaknesses, the gaps. And so this book teaches you that

you are a whole person in order to succeed in order to stand in

your greatness in order to do the things you want to do in the

world. You need to own all of who you are, in order to be a

whole person. And that's what this book is about. It teaches

you that you have both a light in the dark, the shadows and the

greatness. And once you learn how to leverage it and own it,

and you take responsibility for it, you can get what you want in

life.

So I want to come back to that one here in a second. But

what are some of the things in terms of a leader and who they

are and how they are living? What are some of those kind of

key things you think who you should be being when you're

being a great leader?

Great question. I'm so happy you asked that. But

one of the things that I want to talk about is let's go back a

little deeper than that before I answer that question, great

leaders in order for them to change the world around them,

right? They that's what we call them great leaders, they must

start by changing from within. That's where it starts. I think

that great leaders have the ability to rethink, and I'm

using that word in particular because we think is an acronym,

the seven archetypes of my book because it's all about the WHO

YOU JUST and who you need to be. And because they're able to

rethink util lies that system, there are constantly learning,

changing and growing as leaders. So Vaughn is the secret sauce,

the ability to rethink because this is what it is, in my system

the rethink system, you can be. So take seven archetypes, right.

And if you take the first archetype, you can either stand

in your greatness, or you can lead from your gaps. My

archetypes are different. Because it's situational, we

don't lean into one part of who we are, we lean into all parts

of who we are. And so if you learn the rethink system and the

seven archetypes, let's start with the first one. And people

will recognize themselves in the first one. So the first one is

the rebel in the reefing system. It's someone who wants to make

an impact on the world, but someone who wants to do

something significant, they don't want to follow the status

quo. In order to make that happen, they have to have the

characteristic of having confidence. Now, when I talk

about confidence, I'm not talking about standing in front

of the mirror and saying, I'm the best, I'm the greatest. This

is not about ego. This is not even about affirmations. When I

talk about confidence, I'm talking about capabilities plus

competence, equal confidence. Confidence, is believing you're

able, right, we believe we're able, but competence is knowing

your angle. And that is a game changing. When you know you're

able to do something you feel confident. But every leader,

every person that isn't a rebel, who has confidence, there is

what we call a gap. And the gap is of someone who feels like an

imposter who has self doubt. It's the person that wants to do

amazing things, who wants to take themselves to the next

level. But there were six negative messages in their mind

that say, I don't deserve both. I'm not the smartest if they

only knew, maybe I don't, you know, I want to do that. But I

didn't know how to do that. And I'll never learn how to do that

I'm too scared. It's often these little things that we say to

ourselves, that keeps us from standing in our greatness. And

so when you find that this happens to us, we have the

choice in the moment to say, Where do I stand in my

greatness? Or will I allow my gaps to lead? And that's why

this is so important to know this system, because it's a game

changer. When in the moment, you can ask yourself the question,

because sometimes if you lead from being an imposter and

having self doubt, you don't do the things you want to do in

life. It's the rebel that actually experiences the

imposter. Now, this system created after coaching 1000s and

1000s of people every time I talked about confidence, this

whole thing about self doubt and feeling like an imposter kept

emerging and did happen with the same with all the other

archetypes. Every time I mentioned a certain

characteristic that they needed to be as great leaders, he would

say what if only I didn't feel self doubt, if only I didn't

have this gap that own and that's how the system emerged.

It was from the feedback of those that I coached and those

that I was working with, that they kept telling me about what

they were struggling with. In my research, I have found that

99.9% high achieving individuals suffer from the imposter

syndrome. So that's the are so what about the E. So the next

one in the rethink is the Explorer. The Explorer is

someone who wants to go into uncharted waters, who wants to

do something different. But in order to be able to do that they

need to be fueled by intuition. Because intuition and science

talks about allowing things to flow. In order to allow things

to flow, you have to let go of something in order to let

something new come in. But for every single explorer who uses

their intuition, there is a gap of the exploiter who manipulates

and you might be sending Wally that's a very harsh shadow.

That's very harsh GAAP, but I'd like to explain how it plays

out. And see when you use your intuition, you let go of

control. And people have a hard time letting go of control. If

you need to control everything you need to have it your way and

only your way. You might not realize it but you might be

exploiting people or weaknesses or just to get your way you

might manipulate someone nobody wants to call themselves an

exploiter or a manipulator. But if people are honest with

themselves, when they need to have control, they might stand

in this gap. And this gap can end up costing partnerships,

relationships and business and especially leadership. So we

have to be very mindful to see can we learn to let go of

control and allow ourselves to let things come in? Or do we

need to control things and end up maybe sounding like an

exploiter for manipulates so that's a very important

archetype to be aware of. Be excited All leaders are ones

that need to manipulate in order to get what they want. But the

Explorer doesn't do that in order to get what they want.

They let go of what they think they need to have, and allow

what they want to come in. Let me just explain something about

intuition that I want to share. I have found over the years,

that intuition I know people talk about intuition as being

like a sixth sense, it's about your gut feeling. But what we

found about intuition is is that in our brains, we have like

chips in our brains, where we store nemaline, your own store

experiences. And intuition means that all those chips are coming

together when we need an answer. And then all the sudden, we're

saying, Wow, that makes sense. And it's not because all of a

sudden, we got it out of the thin air. No, it's all of the

experiences and all the challenges and all the habits

and all the actions that we've taken is in our mind, and when

we need an answer, the computer in our brain goes through all

the chips and says do it this way. Anybody ever notices that?

When you have intuition? It's usually five words or less, it

sounds like follow it to it. Now, the moment you add, because

or thick the word, it's not your intuition, it stops being

intuition. So for me, I know when someone is really speaking

from intuition is when it's short, a short sentence, and

they don't use the word because.

If you realize that you are in need of too much control,

how do you get yourself to come to that place of letting go?

Great question. I love that question. The thing

about it is, it's almost like when you have a bad habit, like

how do you break a bad habit? Right, you have to introduce

something new, that you normally wouldn't try. So for a leader,

who's in needs control, I've seen this hundreds of times,

I've seen this in organizations where a leader is always telling

people what to do. My coaching is Have you tried maybe

listening instead, where leader always thinks they know the

answer. And they're always like, this is how it needs to be, I

suggest to a leader, maybe saying out loud, I don't know,

can you teach me. So it's kind of opening up the path for

trying something new, in order to see if you get the same

return, right? Because a leader that's always constantly when

I've seen this exploiting and manipulating employees to numb

out after a while, they stopped working as hard as they should.

And they tune them out. And most likely, they're looking for

other jobs. Because these days people don't you know, in my

days, people stay 25 years, 30 days in a job these days. If you

have a boss, if you have a leader who's constantly

manipulating and exploiting you, you're leaving that job. And so

the greatest leaders, as I said earlier, have the ability to

rethink right? To go into find out which kind of archetype they

are. And they're open to learning and growing and

changing. That's how you let go of control. nellen Say something

not everybody wants to do that. The knee has to come within the

leader, the leader has to be able to recognize that the need

for control is not getting them the results that they want. And

that's when a leader says can you tweak it? Can you change it?

How can I leverage this? What do I need to do?

So basically, the leader has to take the first step of

admitting, hey, there's a there's a shadow here or there's

a darkness that I have to sort of work through?

Or a leader will never say that out loud. A

leader will say to me more. You know what, I'm not making the

kind of revenue I want. Our business is losing money. Pete

my best people are leaving the top performers are not staying.

What's usually what a leader will come to me and say, it is

only then then I asked them, What responsibility do you play

in that? Most of them will say nothing, it's not my fault. And

then I say leadership starts going work, boom, it starts with

you, you need to set the example. Now let's find out are

you standing in your greatness or your gaps in which one of

these gaps is costing you in the kind of business that you really

want?

Does every person have these gaps?

So we have all of these within us. These are the

patterns that I've seen over three decades of working with

leaders around the world. So we have all of them. Do we tend to

lean towards one or another? We tend to but these archetypes are

not about like Myers Briggs or like Strength Finders or the

discs. These archetypes are situational. So if you're having

a meeting with someone, the archetype of the truth teller,

or the archetype of the deceiver, you know comes up and

you could ask yourself, will I be the truth teller in this me

Meanwhile, I tell them the whole truth that maybe things aren't

going okay? Or will I tell them half lies, and they'll catch on

that part parts of me are deceiving them, which will

create suspicion. Or you could be in, you know, you could have

a conversation with someone, and maybe you need to be the hero

instead of the bystander. So they're more situational than

they are, okay? I'm only one archetype. And that's, that's

what I lean into.

So is that the, that's the third, the third archetype is

the truth teller.

The third archetype is the truth teller.

And I think for people that are running businesses and want to

take themselves to the next level, is very important to tell

the truth and to be a truth teller. I'm sure we have

recognize the truth tellers in our lives, because it's almost

like they have a duty to always tell us the truth. They always

love to speak with candor. But as we know that a truth teller

has a gap, when they're scared to tell you the truth. They tend

to tell you hoc truths, and they become deceivers because they

withholding information. And when people withhold

information, people become very suspicious, they become very

paranoid. We know that when you don't tell the whole truth,

people are busy making up stories, oh, I know what's

really going on. And then it gets out of control. So we have

to be very mindful, are we going to tell people the whole truth

and tell them the bad news that we need to tell them and maybe

ask them to be part of the solution, or will be end up

deceiving them and maybe cause suspicion among our teams and

our businesses? And it ends up costing us on what we really

want to create.

Okay, so what's the H?

H is the hero. And I believe that within each of

us, there is a hero, because what is the hero, the hero is

someone who feels fearful, right? Who's scared, who's

frightened, but they're courageous. Anyway, as we know,

there's a great book that says, feel the fear and do it anyway.

So that's the hero. But for every hero that exists, there is

a gap. And the gap is of the bystander, who is fearful. When

you're a bystander, you see something, but you do nothing.

You hear something, and you say nothing. How many times in our

lives? And have we been been standards? How many times in our

lives? Could could we have said something or done something and

we don't do it? So question that I asked everyone is then when

they need to do the hero? Are they courageous? Or are they

allowing their fear to lead them? And then they end up being

the bystander in their lives?

OK, so what's after hero? What's the I?

I is the Inventor. It's about their craft, how do

they create the craft? What do they do with their craft? They

do it with integrity, that means that everything that they do

they do with excellence. That means that if you expect

something from them, it's going to be quality, then inventor has

a bar, and the gap is of a destroyer, who's corrupt? And

you might be saying, Oh, that's very harsh. But I want to

explain what I mean. But a mean by man, is it someone that says,

let's do this faster? Let's do this cheaper, let's cut corners,

nobody will ever know. And the truth is, it does come out, you

end up paying a price, and we come across as a destroyer who

is pull up. So you will always have a choice to ask yourself if

I am going to do anything in the world. Will I do it from

integrity? Or will I do it from the parts of being corrupt? Or

will I do it on the parts of being a destroyer? And we don't

want that. But when we are stressed out when we are

challenged, we tend to live in our gaps. We want to just do

things to get them done. People end up costing us in our success

and in our greatness. It's very important to always be mindful

at everything that you do to ask yourself the greatness or the

gaps.

Well, that is five of them, my friends, which if you

want the other two, the last two, you're gonna have to buy

the book because we are out of time. The leadership gap is the

name of the book. Lolly I do have one other question for you.

Before we do that, where should people go if they want to

connect with you and learn more?

So as of now, theleadershipgapbook.com And you

can always find me at lollydaskal.com. And I really

like to connect people so you can find me on Twitter at Lolly

Daskal blocked me tweet me retweet me and I will do the same.

So my last thing for you Lolly is I mean you you

literally write like 100 articles a month. You're reading

a book a day you got this book coming out. If I'm listening for

the first time, what is the first action that you would

encourage people to take if they're realizing I haven't been

leading from a place of greatness?

Well, the first thing I would like to share with

people that if you are truly looking for the some of your

greatness, stop asking ourselves, what do I want to do?

And instead we should ask ourselves, who do I want to be?

That's number one. Greatness is not only a destiny that is only

granted for you, but it's a choice that's available to

everyone. And this is what I need. A choice is action that we

do. It's a decision that we make. And if we know greatness

is within us, then in every given moment, when we are

challenged, when we have difficulty when we have stress,

or how we show up, we can always be mindful to ask ourselves, are

we standing in our greatness? Or are we leading from our gaps?

Lolly, thank you for your continuous stream of inspiration

and education and gosh, we just wish you the best of luck and

good good things for you in the leadership gap.

Amen.