Join Laura and Xhafer, two internet strangers as they get to know each other while making jokes about one of their favorite TV shows from their childhood, Babylon 5.

Laura and Xhafer jump ahead to the next episode in the JMS preferred order. Xhafer retires his B5 card collection. Laura thinks the show needs more PR Kevin. Meanwhile, the Excalibur crew explores a derelict alien starship and accidentally unleashes an HR nightmare in Crusade: Episode 8 - Appearances and Other Deceits.

Hello, and welcome to Who Are You?

2

This is the Babylon 5 Watchcast, hosted

by two former strangers, now friends,

3

who've gotten to know each other.

4

Or are you watching a favorite

show from their childhood?

5

Babylon 5.

6

I'm Schafer.

7

Laura: And I'm Laura.

8

Xhafer: And we are in Crusade, still.

9

We're crusading through Crusade.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Episode three for us, right?

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Xhafer: episode three for us,

13

Laura: Yeah.

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It's not three for the show, necessarily.

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Xhafer: episode we're watching today

is Appearances and Other Deceits.

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I believe it was the

last episode produced?

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And the eighth episode in DVD order.

18

Laura: Okay.

19

Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: Interesting.

21

Xhafer: it's our episode three.

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I think because of Uniform Continuity?

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But, there's a couple other things.

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But there's also shit in this

episode that doesn't make sense.

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So, we'll talk about it though.

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Laura: preferred order, right?

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Xhafer: Yes.

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Laura: Hmm.

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So this would have been number three.

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Interesting.

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Xhafer: Yep.

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Laura: have been, I suppose.

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Xhafer: I mean, it's uh, I mean

we'll talk about it at the end, but,

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I like it better the next episode.

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Laura: Oh.

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Oh, interesting.

37

Controversial take.

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Xhafer: I don't think, is it?

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I don't know.

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Um, it's an okay episode.

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Did you catch who directed this one?

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Laura: I did not.

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Wait.

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Wasn't one of these Stephen First, maybe?

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Xhafer: This is Steven First,

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Laura: Okay, it was this one.

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Gotcha.

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I watched him in a chunk of two,

listener, So I did not remember

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details for one or the other.

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Xhafer: Same.

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yeah, so we were originally

going to do some recasting today

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and some alignment next week.

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Laura: I don't think I'm prepared.

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Xhafer: I don't think, I don't

think I could be prepared.

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I don't think we spent enough

time with these characters.

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Especially, this show is very siloed

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Laura: Mm

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Xhafer: in its character usage.

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it's like, okay, pick three out

of the main cast and that's who

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you're getting this episode.

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Every episode kind of feels like that.

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Um, you get Gideon, and then

you'll get the three characters

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who came in this week, and

everyone else is a fucking ghost.

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Laura: Yeah,

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Xhafer: Speaking of which, Lockley is in

the main credits and we haven't seen her.

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Laura: that's true.

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And we've, we've at this point

watched four episodes and

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we haven't seen Lockley yet.

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Xhafer: a third of the episodes

we've watched of this show and we

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have not seen Lockley who's in the

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Laura: Oh, what a crime.

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And I found myself in the fourth episode,

like asking my husband, wait, what

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is, what is the name of this woman?

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Like referring to the doctor?

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Cause I haven't

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Xhafer: They don't say her

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Laura: enough.

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Yeah.

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I haven't seen her enough.

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We haven't talked to her enough.

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Like.

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We haven't made her interesting

enough in those conversations

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that I remember who she is at all.

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Xhafer: I had to look it up.

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Laura: Yeah, we did too.

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And then I felt embarrassed because

I actually know someone by this name.

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Xhafer: Are they also a doctor?

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Laura: They are not a doctor.

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Yeah.

90

Xhafer: Well, you get a

little bit of a pass then.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: we had, we were originally

going to do alignments and recasting

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uh, twice over Crusade each

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and break up the cast.

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Yeah, we'll just do it.

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once towards the back end, I

think, is what the plan will be.

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And if we still feel like we don't know

the characters well enough after eight or

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nine episodes, then I fuck it, I guess.

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I don't know.

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Laura: Yeah, we'll do something else.

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We'll do a different song and dance.

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Xhafer: Yeah, I uh, packed up

all my Babylon 5 cards today.

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Laura: Oh, why'd you pack them all up?

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Xhafer: Well, I uh, so

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Laura: you just put them away

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Xhafer: yeah, I just put them away.

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Laura: from, from using

them for this show.

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Okay.

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Xhafer: Well, it's like, I was keeping

them along with a bunch of old cards from

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an old other card games in a giant, like,

five siloed card box storage thing, right?

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: And I've been super into Star

Wars Unlimited, which is a new card game

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from Fantasy Flight Games that the second

set released yesterday as of recording.

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Laura: Oh.

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Xhafer: and I have been

super into this game.

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Like, how many boxes do you

think I bought yesterday?

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Heh heh heh.

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Because it's a number bigger

than 5 and less than 10.

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So, I've spent a lot of the last 24 hours

opening packs and organizing all those

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cards, and the card storage I was using

for the first set that had come out a

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couple months ago was now insufficient.

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So I had to find something else.

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And I remembered that I had this

thing with all my Babylon 5 cards,

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and a bunch of other card games in it.

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And so I packaged all of those up,

put them in their own little separate

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boxes, nice and organized, and then I

put them on a high shelf in my basement,

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where they will probably just live.

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Laura: Yeah.

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Xhafer: those cards will probably not

get touched for, A long time, I imagine.

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Laura: You're not just gonna sit

around and play the Babylon five game

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Xhafer: If I knew how.

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Laura: Yeah.

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No kidding.

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Looks complicated.

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Xhafer: did find a rule book, though.

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Laura: Oh, the Psycorps rulebook!

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Look at that!

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Xhafer: How many pages

is this fucking thing?

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72.

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Laura: Oof.

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Xhafer: And it's looking

like this is a lot of rules.

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Like, of these 72, it's looking like

3 are bullshit at the end, 8 are a

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glossary, and are an index and prologue.

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So a solid 65, 66 pages of rules, give

or take, to be able to play a game.

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Nah,

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bruh.

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Laura: That's a lot.

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Yeah.

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Xhafer: With Star Wars?

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Like, 8.

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And to be honest, you

don't even need them all.

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But yeah, so that's what I've That's

the uh, impetus for packing up those

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cards was all of my new Star Wars cards

that I'm deeply in love with this game.

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It's very well made.

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Really liking it.

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Laura: Good.

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Not 65 pages of rules.

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Xhafer: No.

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No, actually, the game plays

better than any other collectible

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card game I've ever touched.

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Any complaint I've ever made about a

game like Magic is addressed either in

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the rules or the systems of the game.

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Laura: Nice.

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Xhafer: It's been a lot of fun.

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I highly recommend it.

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If you're a CCG nerd, Star Wars Unlimited,

if you were on the fence, it's great.

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The second set's fun.

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It just dropped.

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Um, there's a ton of stuff to do with it.

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You can play for free on forcetable.

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net and you can get on the discord

and geek out about that shit with

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me and I will talk about it All day.

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Um,

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Laura: Get your very own

Ja'far for a little bit.

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Xhafer: Right, you just say something

and I'll be like, I get to talk about it!

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Which, hey, we've only got a couple

more of these until it's in person.

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While we're just vamping because

we know that we're going to cover

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this episode in ten minutes.

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Laura: Oh no, I, I have thoughts

about this episode actually, for once.

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Xhafer: okay.

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Well, why don't we save our talk about

our pending trip, which we did a couple

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weeks ago, but it's very real right

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Laura: Yeah, it's becoming imminent.

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Less

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Xhafer: yeah, it is, it

is less than two weeks.

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Er, no, no.

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So, yeah.

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It's

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like, it's like 15 or 16 days.

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Laura: Yeah, yeah.

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Xhafer: um,

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we'll talk more about that next week.

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Laura: Okay, well let's

talk an episode first.

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Xhafer: And Other Deceits.

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We open on I couldn't get over how

long this alien's fingers were.

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Laura: yeah, this is some

great costuming, right?

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Xhafer: Just long, creepy fingers.

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What is it about super long

fingers that are so creepy?

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Laura: unsettling,

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Xhafer: Is it Uncanny Valley stuff,

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Laura: Maybe.

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Yeah, cause like, I know E.

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T.

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is supposed to actually be, like,

cute, and we're all supposed to like E.

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T.

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because he's a good little alien boy.

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But I was very creeped out by E.

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T.

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when I was small.

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Like, I did not think he was cool.

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And he has the creepy fingers.

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He has the long, creepy, weird

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Xhafer: long, creepy, glowy fingers.

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fingers.

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shouldn't glow.

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Laura: He's a creepy puppet.

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Puppets are creepier than, than CGI, too.

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Xhafer: I never liked E.

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T.

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as a kid.

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Laura: Yeah, my son really did, though.

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Xhafer: Yeah.

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Laura: What a weirdo.

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Xhafer: I also didn't like the Goonies.

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Laura: I never saw the Goonies.

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I know.

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Xhafer: I, there are so many

people mad at us right now.

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Laura: I know.

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We're just put put out our

worst takes, but you know what?

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This is a Crusade episode,

so no one's gonna listen.

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Xhafer: It's true.

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Laura: We could just say

all the worst things.

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Yeah, creepy, creepy alien fingers

and He's in this, like, darkly lit

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hallway of a weird alien ship and

uh, just watching the Excalibur on

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some kind of little computer window.

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Xhafer: Mm hmm.

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We cut over to the bridge of the

Excalibur where we've got two suits

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from Earthdome doing a ride along.

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Laura: Yeah, Gideon just hates this.

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He's doing the classic sci fi captain

personal log bitching about politicians.

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Am I

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right?

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Xhafer: Mm hmm.

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But yeah, this is great, because it's Mr.

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Wells.

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He's back.

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Laura: Uh Huh, we remember Mr.

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Wells.

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Xhafer: And of course, as

previously mentioned, this is

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John Vickery, who is also Naroon.

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Laura: Yeah, he's great.

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One of the great

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Xhafer: great.

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Yeah.

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Oh, for sure.

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So it's great to get him back, and

then he's with uh, Wayne Wilderson, who

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has a laundry list of credits as well.

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Laura: Mm hmm.

259

Xhafer: I know we're

supposed to hate these guys.

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Laura: Right?

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But you

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Xhafer: This, you?

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don't, no, they're so fun.

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Laura: I love it.

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I told Aaron, like, at first,

the first scene with Kevin,

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I was like, eh, whatever.

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Kevin is the, the not

John Vickery gentleman.

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And A, Gary Cole has a real office space

energy about him when he speaks to Kevin.

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Xhafer: Mm

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Laura: Just love it.

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It's delicious.

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And then every other scene with

Kevin, I was just like, You know what?

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I need more Kevin.

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This show should have left him on

there as like a foil to Gideon to

275

come in and like poke him in the

ribs when something's not going well.

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I just needed that.

277

Xhafer: It's so good.

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It's the best part of this episode.

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Laura: Yep.

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Oh, but Mr.

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Wells.

282

We need to remind everyone why

we saw him in Babylon 5 before.

283

Wasn't he spinning shit

for the uh, Nightwatch?

284

Wasn't that his whole game?

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Xhafer: I think, yeah, he

was definitely a spin guy.

286

Laura: Mm hmm.

287

Xhafer: Um, he was an ISN, yeah,

I think he was Nightwatch, yeah.

288

Laura: Yeah, I think he was

that, that governmental thing.

289

Because he says something about he knows

regime changes or something very slyly.

290

And I was like, yeah, you

were a Nightwatch bro and

291

you're still around, huh?

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Xhafer: The Ministry of Peace.

293

Laura: Yes, those

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Xhafer: Frederick Lance Who was the

guy who was, like, forming Nightwatch.

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, so Gideon and Matheson

ID the new ship here.

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It is a first contact scenario.

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Everyone on that ship is dead except one.

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I do not understand why

they fuck with this ship.

299

Yeah.

300

I get so mad at, like, the next

ten minutes, because I see a dead

301

ship with one survivor, and I'm

all like, Oh bro, plague, sorry.

302

Like, virus, like, something

destroyed your fucking ship, and

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I want nothing to do with it.

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I don't know if that makes me,

like, a bad dude Star Trek captain.

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Um,

306

Laura: You're the, you're just, um,

Todd Stashwick, blanking on his name.

307

Xhafer: I'm thinking Lorca, but

that's from Discovery Season 1.

308

He's actually a bad dude starship captain.

309

Laura: Yeah, you're a real Liam Shaw.

310

Xhafer: Yeah.

311

You know what?

312

Worse comparisons could be made.

313

Um.

314

It's uh, it's just like, why

would you fuck with this?

315

Right?

316

And then, when they decide to fuck with

it, it's The way they go about fucking

317

with it also just drives me mad, right?

318

Laura: Well, you know, it wouldn't be

unheard of for this to be disease, right?

319

Like, we're out here crusading in the

320

Excalibur because of disease.

321

Like yeah, they should probably be

a little more cognizant of these

322

things as they're approaching anything

323

Xhafer: And, I mean, spoilers for

next episode as well, but same shit.

324

Like, oh, we found a thing

that killed everyone?

325

Well, maybe it's like the thing

that's gonna kill everyone back

326

home, so we should investigate.

327

And it's all like, well,

they clearly didn't solve for

328

the fucking problem, y'all.

329

You need to be finding worlds that are

still around, and asking them if they've

330

had any life threatening drug plagues that

331

Laura: sure, sure, like, if you just

roll up on the one that's just all

332

empty and drock plagued, like, what

are you getting out of that that you

333

can't really get at home, you know,

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Xhafer: We have drug plague at home.

335

Laura: that needs to be a crusade shirt.

336

Xhafer: Just a meme, with Gideon's

face over the dad in the car.

337

Laura: Yeah.

338

Yeah.

339

Xhafer: Can we go to Drakplank?

340

Oh

341

Laura: this is so, you know, as

we're rolling up on this ship

342

Kevin is just verklempt in the

background about the colors of the

343

ship behind him, just so upset.

344

Kevin needs more pastels.

345

I think that's what's wrong here.

346

Xhafer: yeah.

347

it's too RGB, right?

348

This is a serious mission, I don't

care about your light up keyboards.

349

nerds.

350

Laura: yeah.

351

Agree.

352

Uh,

353

So we get the theme, we, we get back

from theme and we hop in EVA suits.

354

This is what Jaffer was uh, referring

to when he was like, the way

355

they go about this is absolutely

356

Xhafer: This is so fucking dumb.

357

So one, we get a size of this ship, right?

358

There's This ship is, like, at

least, like, it's kind of, it's not

359

squares, it's a bunch of circles.

360

But, it seems to be taking up the space

of, like, a grid of 4x4 Excaliburs.

361

Which is a 2.

362

5 mile ship.

363

Which would mean that

this is a 12x12 mile ship.

364

Without knowing how tall it is.

365

Laura: Yeah, sure.

366

Xhafer: This thing is fucking huge.

367

Laura: And we're just going to

hop in suits and like swim over.

368

Xhafer: Right?

369

Instead of fucking Starfuries,

you've got Starfuries.

370

We've seen them.

371

It's in the fucking theme song.

372

Laura: We know they've got shuttles

too, like, if you, if you're not worried

373

about, like, guns and stuff, hop in

some people movers, like, you have

374

them, you went to a planet, we saw that.

375

why do we need suits?

376

Uh,

377

Xhafer: any, like, repair vehicles

for the outside of their ship on

378

their long distance explorer vessel?

379

Nothing that can get out and

fix a whole patch or something?

380

Come

381

Laura: yeah, they need robots,

you should be sending robots over.

382

Xhafer: Right.

383

This is so dumb.

384

We find out a bunch of stuff though.

385

We see that the inside

of the ship blew up.

386

It looks like a lot of

the crew killed each

387

Laura: Yeah, they were

like fighting each other.

388

We see the floating CGI corpses

just like with their hands around

389

each other's neck and stuff.

390

Xhafer: That doesn't make sense

in the context of the plot.

391

Laura: I mean, I wrote it off as like,

They, some of them got taken over by the

392

personalities, but some of them didn't.

393

Xhafer: All they have to do

is touch someone and they

394

Laura: yeah, you don't want

to wring each other's necks

395

Xhafer: Yeah, the second you touch them,

you become them and you stop fighting.

396

Laura: Okay, that is a solid point.

397

Xhafer: The only thing that would

make sense for this for me, and

398

this is me filling in a ton of

blanks for a show and doing a bunch

399

of mental legwork to make it okay.

400

So I'm, we're just going to fucking

rip open this plot right now.

401

If you haven't watched this episode,

listen, or we're not, this is

402

not going to be chronological.

403

I'm sorry.

404

So we find out that these aliens are like,

Many minds that are like spreading right

405

Laura: Mm hmm.

406

Xhafer: implication Is that there are a,

a number of them that are distinct beings

407

and you can inhabit the same body at the

same time, which is why when they found

408

the one, it was like the infinite mirror.

409

And while the dudes were reaching for

the one dude, it's like past their

410

consciousness is up to be able to survive

in the one body, hypothetically, if

411

that's the case, and they're all actually

individuals who sometimes hive mind,

412

there might be a limited number of them

413

Laura: Right.

414

Right.

415

Xhafer: they only had, you know,

like Several hundred or something.

416

Now that doesn't work with some

of the stuff fucking well says

417

later in the episode about taking

over whole planets and colonizing

418

and stuff, but it's just like, I

don't know, it's just fucking dumb.

419

It just, it seems like if you had

just sat back for 30 seconds and

420

looked at how this works, this

is not the scene you would find.

421

And it doesn't impact the plot at all,

seeing them fighting each other, there's,

422

they're like, oh, maybe it's a mutiny.

423

Well, that doesn't make sense.

424

And then they just move on.

425

It's there for a line that has no

bearing on the plot whatsoever.

426

Laura: Yeah.

427

And we could have saved the CGI

budget here, put it somewhere else,

428

Right?

429

Xhafer: Mm

430

Laura: Oh, well, you could

have put spears in their hands.

431

Like, you could stab

somebody from a distance

432

Xhafer: I mean, that's the zombie plan.

433

Yeah.

434

Stay,

435

Laura: Yeah, exactly.

436

Xhafer: feet away from me, please.

437

Laura: Stabby, stabby.

438

Xhafer: they're there for.

439

so anyways, they pull this

lone survivor into Med Lab

440

Laura: Yeah,

441

Xhafer: to try and save them.

442

And they like, start dying very

rapidly, even though they were totally

443

stable, to get someone to run in,

so that way we see the like, special

444

effects of consciousness transference.

445

Laura: Yeah.

446

Yeah.

447

Janie, Janie is just too empathetic.

448

She's presumably a nurse or

maybe another doctor in med lab.

449

Runs into the, the chamber like

alien atmosphere chamber or whatever.

450

And uh, starts trying to defib this

alien, which another thing I was

451

like, do we know that's gonna work?

452

Do we know that's not

going to make it worse?

453

Slick.

454

Xhafer: Better than nothing, I

455

guess?

456

But, I mean, so, Defibrillator works

by stimulating muscles, so if it's got

457

a heart, you should, made of muscle,

hypothetically a defibrillator would

458

work on an alien, I would think.

459

Assuming that their muscles

work in any way similar to ours.

460

That'd be

461

Laura: Yeah.

462

Yeah.

463

So maybe neutral, but,

464

Xhafer: yeah, in structure.

465

Not necessarily in, like, anatomy.

466

They don't need to be like red

meat, white meat, kind of like,

467

you know, they don't, we don't

need to get that specific with it.

468

I think as long as uh, electricity makes

a muscle contract or whatever at the

469

heart is using to pump, if it's not a

muscle, if electricity causes contraction.

470

Regardless, I'm done doing mental fucking

gymnastics for you, Joe, and this episode.

471

That's it.

472

We hit the line.

473

No math for you today.

474

Laura: for whatever

reason, it doesn't work.

475

And uh, the doctor tells Gideon she

just can't figure out why he died.

476

Like, it's almost like he did it

on purpose, the little bastard.

477

Yeah

478

Xhafer: the doctor Dr.

479

Chambers here gives Janie some shit.

480

Like, well, you're gonna have to

do a full decontainment including,

481

like, a body cavity thing?

482

Laura: that's clearly a punishment.

483

I think Janie needs to go to HR.

484

Xhafer: Right.

485

This is some, this is

like some heavy kink shit.

486

It's like, this is some really

weird workplace dynamic kink

487

shit and I am very uncomfortable.

488

Laura: hmm.

489

And we're all trapped on a ship together.

490

Things are gonna get weird.

491

Xhafer: I mean, not, not because of

the body cavity search, to be clear.

492

Uh, It's improper power dynamics

that make me uncomfortable.

493

I'm not gonna yuck anyone's yums.

494

Laura: Right.

495

We're all about proper power dynamics here

496

in the Who Are You Babylon 5

497

Xhafer: 100%.

498

Yeah, proper power dynamics is

important in any relationship.

499

Mm

500

Laura: The language guy whose name I

also had a lot of trouble remembering,

501

Max Eilerson, is lecturing his

waiter about salt like an asshole.

502

Xhafer: God.

503

He is a miserable excuse of a human being.

504

Laura: I feel like I say what

a dick about this guy a lot.

505

Xhafer: Every episode.

506

As you should.

507

Multiple times an episode.

508

Unless he's siloed out of it.

509

Laura: Yeah.

510

I don't, we might've had one

that he was siloed out, but yeah.

511

Xhafer: Yeah uh, the,

the Technomage episode.

512

I

513

Laura: Okay.

514

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

515

And we were all better for it.

516

I don't even know what he was doing in

that scene besides lecturing about salt.

517

Xhafer: Yeah, he's, he's translating the

language and he comes to the conclusion

518

that there are two separate languages.

519

Laura: Ooh,

520

Xhafer: dun,

521

Laura: Why would we need that?

522

Janie goes and touches some guy and

transmits and gives him a ghost.

523

Xhafer: yeah, this is the

worst game of tag ever.

524

Laura: yeah.

525

She gives him some kind of orders

in an alien language, and then keeps

526

touching people back from commercial.

527

Xhafer: Right?

528

Like this is an HR nightmare.

529

Laura: language guy sucks

again, I wrote, so he must have

530

done something else stupid.

531

Xhafer: So he figures it out.

532

Like he cracks the code for the language.

533

Because the captain would

say ship the most, right?

534

Totally.

535

That makes sense.

536

And from there he was able to

figure out their entire language.

537

Which, good for him.

538

Laura: Yeah, he's figured out

that the spoken language and the

539

written language on the ship, or

the Yeah, the letters in the ship,

540

like the, the consoles and stuff,

541

Xhafer: mhm.

542

Laura: common.

543

Xhafer: Yeah.

544

Completely different languages.

545

But he gets the captain's logs.

546

And almost gets merc'd.

547

A security guard totally saves

his life by, like, jumping in

548

front of a bullet, basically.

549

To uh, let him get on the tram

so he can call the captain just

550

to be all like, Shit's fucked.

551

Here's what's going on.

552

Laura: Oh, oh, you

missed the most important

553

Xhafer: Oh, did

554

Laura: point of this episode, is

at some point when all this is

555

happening, Kevin decides he hates the

uniforms, and that they have to go.

556

Xhafer: Oh, yeah.

557

For sure.

558

Laura: Yes, this is very important.

559

Oh, and he wants to take away Gideon's

pockets, so Gideon's gonna know

560

what it feels like to be a woman.

561

Yay.

562

Yay.

563

Xhafer: Cut up to the bridge where

the captain and lieutenant use a space

564

Roomba to check on some of the decks.

565

Some are okay and some are not.

566

And when they're using the floating camera

on deck 9 wells, it's just like, Oh,

567

hey, we're ready to discuss terms, y'all.

568

Laura: Yeah, I really

liked the hover Roomba.

569

That was pretty cool.

570

Xhafer: Yeah, I want one.

571

I don't, actually.

572

They're terrifying.

573

Uh,

574

Laura: Diarrhea?

575

Like, can you imagine if that

Roomba was a hover Roomba?

576

Uh Huh.

577

Huh.

578

Xhafer: I've, I've kind of

always wanted one because I

579

thought they were cool, right?

580

But I will tell you what the this episode

airs after they get back, so I don't

581

feel like I'm betraying anything here.

582

The Curlies are out on a cruise right now.

583

Benjamin from Last Time On

and Gloryann from Cool Girls.

584

And so I am going in house,

like, I'm checking on their

585

plants, watering stuff, right?

586

And when I was watering plants there

the other day, their Roomba was on.

587

One, I opened the door and I thought

empty house and I heard something running

588

and I'm just all like, the fuck is that?

589

Right, just like, I'm immediately

in like, is someone in here?

590

Like, what is going on?

591

Cause something is, something is

moving and operating around this house.

592

And it's like, oh, it's

the fucking Roomba.

593

Right?

594

So, and then, I'm like trying to

like water the plants and I swear

595

to fuck that thing was following me.

596

I'm like trying not to step

on their Roomba constantly.

597

Laura: Yeah.

598

That's what it's like to have a Roomba

599

Xhafer: I, I have never gone

from, Oh, that'd be cool!

600

To, I never want one of these things

in my fucking life so quickly.

601

Yeah.

602

Laura: and it'll sense it alert to your

app to be like, I'm stuck somewhere.

603

And you're like, well,

I'm at fucking work.

604

So

605

Yeah.

606

So Gideon decides he is

gonna go down there to talk.

607

To the Sealed Off deck and believes

he won't get got for some reason.

608

Xhafer: I mean, they

weld it shut over there.

609

Like they, they take an airlock and just

610

Laura: yeah,

611

Xhafer: down.

612

Laura: okay.

613

I'm, I'm not, I'm not convinced.

614

Xhafer: That's fair.

615

Laura: Wells tells uh, Gideon all about

how they don't have their own bodies and

616

they just take over others, you know,

they want to take over a world again, I

617

guess they've taken over worlds before.

618

I don't know why you do this though,

like, in perpetuity, like, once you

619

take over bodies on a world, can't you

just, like, reproduce your own bodies?

620

I don't know.

621

Xhafer: Yeah, it's

622

I don't,

623

Laura: It's, it's hanging by a thread.

624

Xhafer: I don't have good answers

and I'm not gonna work for them.

625

Ha

626

Laura: Okay, but you know what?

627

Kevin is all of us because he is just

staring at Daniel Day Kim's cheekbones.

628

Yeah.

629

Xhafer: Yeah.

630

Yeah, we get a little bit

of back and forth here.

631

Um, On the bridge, and then

Wells and Gideon talking.

632

Gideon just like, rattles off

the JMS greatest hits list.

633

Uh, Just like, who are you, what do

you want, where are we going, what's

634

going on, all that shit real quick.

635

So they're just like, drop us off

on some planet, make us someone

636

else's problem, Gideon isn't

particularly interested in this,

637

Laura: No, no, he's too lawful.

638

He's a lawful guy.

639

Xhafer: Yeah, but Kevin is

like, figuring it out, man.

640

He's all like, why, like, they, they

were all outstretched to the one dude?

641

And they were all still touching?

642

He didn't think that was kinda weird?

643

Laura: See, we need Kevin.

644

The show needs Kevin.

645

Xhafer: Problem solver.

646

Laura: So Gideon and Matheson

ultimately strategize.

647

They want to cut the aliens

off and drop the temperature.

648

Xhafer: Yeah, the captain fucks with

the thermostat and Wells handles it as

649

well as most middle aged white dudes.

650

Laura: yeah.

651

Just calls them up and

straight up shoots a guy.

652

Xhafer: Right?

653

Laura: oh yeah?

654

Xhafer: violence.

655

Laura: Mm hmm.

656

They like, you know.

657

Touch, touch him, and then his little

alien spirit moves out, and then

658

they just shoot the crew member.

659

So, they were thinking

about that continuity.

660

So he's gonna start killing more if

Gideon doesn't comply with his needs.

661

But Gideon is gonna pull a Janeway.

662

He's ready to like, go in himself and self

distract the whole ship as a backup plan.

663

what

664

Xhafer: Mm

665

hmm.

666

Laura: plan.

667

Yeah, Gideon gets in his space suit

because they can't get in through

668

the suit, cause they gotta touch him.

669

I guess they can go through clothes, but

not whatever shielding is in the suit.

670

Xhafer: Sure.

671

Laura: Jafar's over it.

672

Xhafer: So over it.

673

Yep.

674

He tries to pass them a message

by speaking in incorrect what's

675

the word I'm looking for here?

676

Laura: it's like a code.

677

I mean,

678

he's just, mm hmm.

679

Mm hmm.

680

Xhafer: Metaphor!

681

Yeah.

682

Laura: there's that drop.

683

Yeah.

684

It's like he's, he's purposefully

fucking up his Tamarian so that

685

Max will get a message from that.

686

Cause, cause Max is a genius.

687

We know that because he's a jerk.

688

So,

689

Xhafer: hmm.

690

All geniuses are jerks.

691

Laura: verifiable, but not

all jerks are geniuses.

692

So he says, I think

693

Xhafer: yeah.

694

Laura: And,

695

Xhafer: Yeah, this

696

Laura: that those sound the same,

but they are spelled different.

697

Xhafer: My subtitles helped a lot here.

698

Laura: Yeah.

699

Xhafer: a lot of the heavy lifting.

700

Laura: Truly.

701

Xhafer: They figured out they're

gonna cut the oxygen out.

702

To get everyone to kind of

force their way around, I guess.

703

Laura: so, why could we figure

out, like, why did we If we figured

704

out we could cut off the air, why

did we drop the temperature first?

705

Like, this seems like an unnecessary step.

706

Go straight to cut off the air.

707

Jaffara's yawning, everyone.

708

It is

709

Xhafer: It is,

710

It is, almost 11 o'clock here.

711

Laura: Yeah, yeah.

712

This is not just a

commentary on this episode of

713

Xhafer: It is though, it is, I promise.

714

Laura: Heh heh

715

Xhafer: and the like 7 percent

beer I'm drinking is starting

716

to hit me a little bit.

717

Anyways yeah, I mean, I stopped

looking for logic in this episode.

718

I think the only reason you would do it

like this is because you needed time to

719

put the dead not dead crewman in place.

720

Because that seems to be the crux

of the solution pending here.

721

So they, they get a crewman in a space

suit to survive but it's the crewman

722

who was permanently brain damaged.

723

Hours ago?

724

Laura: So we're The security guard

that, like, jumped in front of Eilerson

725

died.

726

Like, he was killed.

727

Xhafer: They had him on life support.

728

Yeah.

729

Laura: And somehow he's, he's the

savior of us all because we put him

730

in a space suit and they think that,

oh, we're gonna hop into this one

731

body and survive this decompression.

732

whoops.

733

Xhafer: Yep, they can't move.

734

They just end up trapped.

735

Laura: not functional.

736

even

737

Xhafer: Mm hmm.

738

I have so many problems with this.

739

At first, I was all like, Oh, they

just went into a dead body on accident

740

before I realized what had actually

741

Laura: not completely dead.

742

Yeah, there's some ethical

things there, I feel like,

743

that are a problem.

744

Xhafer: this is not what would

happen in a Star Trek episode.

745

Laura: Yeah, but, to ramp up the drama

just a tiny bit, as they're, like, spacing

746

this deck, Or this alien, at least,

or alien's presence, whatever, yeah.

747

They start screaming inside the body

that they know what Gideon is looking

748

for and they could help him find it.

749

And, too late, bye.

750

Xhafer: yep.

751

Gets launched into space and

then fucking blasted to hell.

752

Laura: Yeah, so

753

screamings of a, a desperate

Alien consciousness, or do

754

you think they do kind of know

about it and could help find it?

755

Mm

756

Xhafer: They're kind of like Hive Mindy.

757

So, I mean, if you've spent a ton

of time invading a ton of worlds,

758

Laura: hmm.

759

Xhafer: like, this might be

something you've come across.

760

Laura: Yeah,

761

yeah, and we meld

762

together.

763

We all know about it.

764

Yeah.

765

Xhafer: Yeah, you've been to a world

where they solved for this problem

766

and then you took it over instead.

767

You know, checking in places where you

should be, where there's people living.

768

Laura: Yeah.

769

Xhafer: Um,

770

Laura: Yeah, Gideon.

771

No, it doesn't

772

Xhafer: I mean, I don't know.

773

I don't really

774

Laura: hmm.

775

Xhafer: Like, it has no

implication on the plot

776

because they just get

777

Laura: Just

778

Xhafer: Mm hmm.

779

Laura: It makes it seem like, you know,

Gideon is so good and pure that even

780

though they offered him a reasonable deal,

like, you know, we'll leave your guys

781

alone, you just drop us off somewhere.

782

Like, just uh, just make

us somebody else's problem.

783

Gideon wouldn't take that.

784

And what makes us wonder,

like, if Gideon had known.

785

Would he have taken that?

786

I don't know.

787

I don't think he would have

taken it, obviously, but

788

Xhafer: I think if it's something that

you were going to offer in earnest,

789

you would have offered it in earnest

when you were trying to make the

790

the good faith deal the first time.

791

Laura: yeah.

792

Because it doesn't have,

like, a cost to it.

793

That's the thing.

794

It's like, if it was going to cost them

something, really, to offer it up, like,

795

you should have offered it earlier.

796

Xhafer: Yeah, you could be like, take us

to a planet, drop us off, by the way we

797

know where a cure for the drach plague

is, and we'll give you the coordinates of

798

that world after we're safe and landed.

799

Laura: Yeah.

800

Xhafer: And then you find a shitty

colony that no one cares about,

801

and drop them off, and you end

the series in the next episode.

802

Because if you're going to go

through the, the moral exercise

803

of what you do to this poor brain

dead person who has no agency, I

804

Laura: Mm hmm.

805

Yeah.

806

Is, is it a lot, a lot different

than what you would do to a

807

unknown, unexplored colony?

808

Yeah.

809

Xhafer: mean, and you can

at least warn the colony.

810

Laura: Yeah.

811

Xhafer: Be like, or, or drop

them off, get the coordinates,

812

just nuke the fucker from orbit.

813

Laura: Yeah.

814

Yeah.

815

Xhafer: Yes.

816

Super laser, you've got one.

817

Laura: Yeah, this is really

horrifying about taking the brain

818

dead body and using it this way.

819

Like, you know,

820

I don't know that we 100 percent really

know what a person is experiencing

821

when they're in that sort of state.

822

Like.

823

Xhafer: I mean, I'm an organ donor.

824

Laura: Uh Huh.

825

Xhafer: And if they were an organ

donor, I feel like that's close enough

826

to volunteering for this.

827

That's not terribly different.

828

Um, but

829

Laura: I suppose if It could be

like, you're in the space military

830

now, you're all organ donors.

831

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

832

Xhafer: Uh

833

it's just, it's just so weird.

834

It's, it's just a weird choice to make.

835

And I just hate it.

836

I just hate it.

837

Like, it's just, this, it's

like, it kind of makes me rewatch

838

the 90s Outer Limits show.

839

Because

840

the,

841

Laura: that.

842

Xhafer: because I feel like that

show could have done something with

843

this that was more thought provoking

than just making me feel bad.

844

Laura: Yeah.

845

There's just so many things

that are just like Yeah.

846

glossed over in this episode that

really deserved more thought.

847

Cause in Babylon five, they

got more thought most of the

848

time, not a hundred percent, but

849

Xhafer: But most of the time, I

think that's the biggest issue

850

with Crusade as a series so far.

851

Laura: Yeah.

852

Oh, four,

853

Xhafer: three Three.

854

Laura: nailed it.

855

Xhafer: Yeah.

856

Got it.

857

We'll just wrap it up.

858

We're gonna take a couple months off.

859

We'll be back in November

with Battlestar Galactica.

860

We did it all.

861

We fucking did it.

862

Laura: Mission accomplished.

863

Xhafer: Got it in three baby!

864

Laura: Speaking of things that are

uncomfortable, Kevin presents the

865

new uniforms and I thought they did.

866

I thought they looked

hideous at this point.

867

I don't know.

868

Maybe it'll grow on me,

but I was like, Ooh,

869

Xhafer: I saw these things and

had one thought in my mind.

870

Laura: yeah, I

871

Xhafer: Tell me I'm wrong.

872

They look just like the Galaxy Quest unit.

873

I don't know.

874

Laura: Hmm.

875

What was, when did that come out?

876

Did we have some spare

uniforms in addition to those

877

Starship Troopers helmets?

878

Like we just need to repurpose some stuff.

879

Like.

880

Mm-Hmm.

881

Xhafer: around, I think

Galaxy Quest came out in 99.

882

So Crusade would have

been right around then.

883

Laura: Well, yeah, we're

just picking up their vibes.

884

Xhafer: Yeah.

885

Greys Are really in this year.

886

Laura: yeah.

887

Yeah.

888

Max goes to see the doctor and

is, you know, max kind of had

889

like a little turn in the episode

after the guy s the security

890

guard sacrificed his life for him.

891

Um, and you know, it has been mopey

about like, that guy saved my life and.

892

I hope that he would have

wanted his body used that way.

893

And the, the doctor basically calls him

out on being a giant narcissist, which I

894

enjoyed.

895

Xhafer: Yeah.

896

He needs that

897

being called out for

being a giant narcissist.

898

Yeah.

899

Laura: Yeah.

900

And then we were reminded that yes,

this whole thing is very sad that

901

two people died because we end the

episode on Gideon dictating a letter

902

to Greenberg's mom and Arkham's dad.

903

I hope I'm reading my notes

correctly to the credits.

904

Like they get names here after

they're very dead because they

905

were expendable up until now.

906

Xhafer: Yep.

907

And that's, that's an episode.

908

I gotta ask you, Laura, on a scale

of one to four main guns firing,

909

how do you feel about this episode?

910

Laura: Look, I know you, you seem

to be pretty down on this episode,

911

but I absolutely want more Kevin.

912

And I'm giving this episode three

of the main guns firing just because

913

I want Kevin to show back up.

914

I know he won't, but it would be

so great if we just decided that we

915

needed an onboard PR guy to like, make

snappy jokes at Gideon all the time.

916

amazing.

917

Amazing.

918

Xhafer: No, no.

919

I gave this episode a lot of shit.

920

Uh, part of that, part of that is

because it's late and I'm cranky.

921

Uh, because I am, I am,

just a grumpy old man

922

Laura: there's a lot to be

cranky about in the world today.

923

Xhafer: Uh, But as far as like,

episodes of Crusade go, this

924

Laura: huh.

925

Xhafer: the better ones.

926

Laura: Yeah, I thought it felt

pretty like we tried to hang

927

it all together pretty well.

928

You and I picked those seams apart,

but, you know, that's our job, right?

929

We're media critics.

930

Xhafer: Oh no.

931

Laura: I absolutely do not

identify as a media critic.

932

I

933

just thought it was funny.

934

Well, you've gotten like media

passes to shit and stuff.

935

So I was like, guess we're legit, huh?

936

Xhafer: He, well, that's just because

I don't want to pay for things.

937

Laura: I identify as a media

critic when I want free.

938

Xhafer: I identify as a media critic

to places that offer press badges and

939

Laura: Hehehehe.

940

Xhafer: Yeah, this wasn't bad.

941

I definitely put this at a

strong, you know, we'll say three.

942

I had written two and a half.

943

But Kevin is fun enough

to boost this up to three.

944

I, I concur three out of the

four main guns firing for this

945

Laura: Splendid.

946

Splendid.

947

I hope Crusade can keep it up.

948

Hehehe.

949

Xhafer: it can't.

950

Speaking of which, next episode.

951

We're gonna be skipping ahead

two to follow this perfect JMS

952

order or whatever that we chose.

953

Um, we're going to watch

episode 10, the memory.

954

Uh, Galen warns Gideon not

to explore a planet where the

955

inhabitants were suddenly eradicated.

956

Laura: Hm.

957

Again, we're going and

looking for the dead people.

958

Yeah.

959

Xhafer: We're, we're

looking for the dead people.

960

Um, I, I feel very, like we've both

already watched the next episode

961

cause we were planning on recording

back to back before it got super

962

late and I got a little buzzed.

963

Laura: Uh huh.

964

Xhafer: But we'll talk

about it next episode.

965

Laura: Yes.

966

It'll be fun.

967

Until then, we have

some thank yous to say.

968

Ja'far, would you

969

Xhafer: We do.

970

I will, of course.

971

Thank you, Jeremy, Jeremy Siegel for

our absolutely fantastic theme music.

972

Thank you so much for

putting that together for us.

973

Really appreciate it.

974

You can find more of Jeremy's

work at JeremySiegel42.

975

bandcamp.

976

com on streaming services

as Nuclear Jaguar.

977

And then he's also been

playing Savants lately.

978

So if you see a show with them and

you're in that area, go see him.

979

Support live music.

980

Fuck yeah.

981

Laura: Yeah, I bet he

would be delighted as well.

982

And thank you to Angry Duck Time Machine

on Instagram for our podcast artwork.

983

Xhafer: Aaron, thanks so much

for editing this podcast.

984

I hope the drops I called for

weren't too hard to find this time.

985

Laura: And thank you to you, the listener,

for being here on the Crusade for Crusade.

986

Xhafer: We'll see you next week, Internet.

987

Laura: All right.

988

Bye.