Welcome back to Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew, I'm your host Brett Deister, and today we have Kendra Corman with us to spill the beans on the evolving world of email marketing in the AI age. In this packed episode, Kendra will debunk the myths around email open rates in light of iOS's privacy updates and guide us on measuring true engagement with clicks and replies.

We'll grind down the best practices for email calls to action, the secret of talking to one person for impact, and the power of AB testing with a touch of AI to perfect those subject lines. Our discussion steers through the crowded inboxes and tells you why fewer choices can mean more action from your readers.

Furthermore, from the comforts of Constant Contact to the editing ease provided by Descript and Riverside, get ready to discover how AI is revolutionizing content creation and what that means for our sacred email lists. We'll also tap into the challenges of AI transcription, the growing importance of video content, and LinkedIn's new newsletter features.

And if you're wondering whether email marketing still reigns supreme in the social media era, Kendra and I have some insights that might just reaffirm your faith in the good old electronic mail. So fill up your mug, and let's brew some digital strategy with Kendra Corman on Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew.

3 Fun Facts

1. Kendra Corman utilizes AI for brainstorming ideas, topic suggestions, and theme creation for her podcast episodes.

2. Kendra produces two types of podcast episodes weekly: one with interviews and another featuring solo marketing tips.

3. Both Kendra Corman and Brett Deister leverage AI tools such as Descript, Riverside, and DaVinci Resolve to aid in podcast and video editing.

Timestamps:

00:10 AI dominates content marketing, both beneficially and excessively.

03:30 Generative AI like an intern with potential.

07:57 Podcast features themed episodes and marketing tips.

11:24 Editing helps minimize filler words to improve authenticity.

13:30 Effective social media strategy drives email growth.

18:36 Recommend offering discounts to attract customers online.

20:58 Value is key, exchange with email.

24:34 Private equity acquisition boosted Constant Contact's capabilities.

27:10 Monitor replies, list growth, and engagement metrics.

32:09 Write email content targeted at specific client.

35:53 Unique, value-added content is key in marketing.

37:33 Encouraging listeners to subscribe and stay tuned.

💬 Want to get involved? Leave us a comment, give us a 'like,' and follow us for more insights. Join our Locals for lively discussions, and if you've got questions, email us at bdeister@digitalcafe.media!

👕 Check out our mech: www.digitalcafe.store

🌟 Review the Podcast if you loved this episode and share it with fellow marketers who could benefit from a treasure trove of podcasting wisdom. Tune in to "Digital Coffee: Marketing Brew" and let's brew up some success together!

Mm, that's good.

2

And welcome to a new episode of

Digital Coffee Marketing Brew.

3

I'm your host, Brett Deister, and

this week we're gonna be talking

4

about content marketing email list.

5

Yes.

6

Email lists and email marketing.

7

The older side of the digital marketing.

8

Realm besides S-E-O-S-E-O is pretty

old too, but I'm excited with

9

me because I have Kendra with me

and she is a small business and

10

sold entrepreneur for marketing.

11

She's done everything between

Chrysler, the Jeep Advertising Manager,

12

she's also done B2B businesses.

13

She has a MBA from Michigan State, so

she's glad to have her on the show.

14

So I'm the show Kendra.

15

Kendra Corman: Thank you

so much for having me.

16

I'm super excited to be here and

I love talking about the older

17

side of marketing 'cause it still

18

Brett Deister: works.

19

It does work very well.

20

But the first question I all my guests

is, are you a coffee or tea drinker?

21

Kendra Corman: Tea I.

22

Brett Deister: Tea.

23

Any specific, any tea and

24

Kendra Corman: diet?

25

Coke.

26

Ah,

27

Brett Deister: any specific teas, like

green tea, black tea, or does it matter?

28

Kendra Corman: Green tea with

pomegranate is my favorite.

29

Brett Deister: All right.

30

And I gave a brief

summary of your expertise.

31

Can you give our listeners a

little bit more about what you do?

32

Kendra Corman: Yeah, so I've got

more than 15 years of experience

33

in marketing and advertising.

34

Right now I focus mostly with

small businesses and solopreneurs

35

and nonprofits, trying to help

them access high level quality

36

marketing expertise, advice, and

implementation at an affordable price.

37

But I've done things like, I learned

to drive a Viper on the Rolex 24

38

course at Daytona to things like

that were really fun, like insurance.

39

No

40

Brett Deister: fun times with insurance.

41

Kendra Corman: It was a lot more

interesting than than people think.

42

So that was always good.

43

Brett Deister: That's fair.

44

But in the landscape of content

marketing, it's evolved.

45

So what are the current trends

that we're seeing right now?

46

Kendra Corman: So the biggest trend

in content marketing right now is ai.

47

AI is dominating content

marketing for good or for bad.

48

I am a huge fan of ai.

49

I love embracing it, but

AI is becoming a tool.

50

I think it's becoming a little bit

overused now by a lot of people.

51

They're taking the easy way out and

they're not reviewing their content.

52

They're not.

53

Adding in the expertise, that's them.

54

Which is cool for people like you and

me who are adding in our expertise,

55

are adding unique content without the

a hundred percent generated AI content.

56

And therefore we're able to differentiate

ourselves easier in the marketplace.

57

But content marketing, AI is

made it so that it is so easy.

58

People are just doing it.

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Brett Deister: Yeah, I think a lot of

'em are just using chat GBT, writing it

60

down and then just copying, pasting it.

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'cause it's, they do, they

allow you to do it so easily.

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Kendra Corman: They do.

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They do.

64

And the thing is that it does have a

lot of great ideas and suggestions.

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I love using chat GPTA

little bit as a therapist.

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So I'll write something,

especially like a mean email, and

67

then I'll say, make this nicer.

68

And it does, and then I still feel

unburdened because I gave it my thoughts.

69

But it's, it does have some ideas.

70

It might help you brainstorm.

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The best example that I've heard.

72

When referring to chat, GPT and

other similar ai, generative AI

73

tools is, you wanna think about it

as an intern with unlimited hours.

74

You are not gonna copy and paste

what an intern gives you, right?

75

You're gonna review it, you're

gonna give it really good

76

direction and specific direction.

77

You're going to educate it about

your experience and your side of

78

what you're asking them to do, right?

79

And because of that, when you

think about it as an intern, and

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I think it really gives you those

guidelines or guideposts on how to

81

really leverage it in the right way.

82

Brett Deister: Yeah, I mean if you

think of an intern, a lot of times

83

you give this, you give an intern this

stuff you don't want to do, but you

84

still wanna look over what they do,

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Kendra Corman: correct.

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100%.

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And they have unlimited hours, which

makes everything happen a lot quicker.

88

But again, you still have to

be involved in that process.

89

But AI is the biggest trend right

now, I think in content marketing.

90

Brett Deister: Yeah, I I think what,

six months ago it was, or before AI

91

took off, it was short form video

and now it's just AI in general.

92

Kendra Corman: Yeah.

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Yep, a hundred percent.

94

And AI is helping people with short

form video and things like that,

95

which is making more of that too.

96

Brett Deister: How do you do you.

97

Can you create good storytelling

with the help of chat GPT or

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Bard if some people use Bard?

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Kendra Corman: Yeah.

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And I and claude.ai is another one

that I like is another chat bot.

101

But I would say yes, you can create

good storytelling, but it's like any

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other system, garbage in, garbage out.

103

You wanna give it the right

information and I actually had.

104

Chat, GPT helping me

write my email newsletter.

105

Yesterday, I basically

wrote my email newsletter.

106

I gave it all of the ideas,

everything that I wanna cover,

107

and then just had it rewrite.

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So I just didn't have

to think quite as hard.

109

And then I was able to just edit it,

but I was able to do a brain dump.

110

It organized my thoughts for me

and put it together so that I

111

could edit it before I send it out.

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It's a huge, it's a huge time

saver when used appropriately,

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Brett Deister: and it

could also edit things.

114

So let's say a PR person

writes a press release.

115

You could look it over for you and

maybe give you suggestions as well.

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Kendra Corman: Oh, I love

using it for suggestions.

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I love using it for suggestions.

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And if you're writing like a blog

post and you want to optimize it

119

for a certain keyword term, it'll

give you suggestions for that too.

120

I remember I had it analyze a

client's webpage for a specific

121

event because they wanted to come

up and search for certain term.

122

The term wasn't in there.

123

At all when, because they decided,

Hey, we need to come up for this.

124

And it's okay, we'll make edits.

125

I quickly loaded it in, had chat GPT, look

at it and give me a bunch of suggestions.

126

Some of the suggestions were

good, some of them not so good.

127

But I went ahead and made those

suggestions that were actually good

128

ones and they started coming up in

search, which was a pretty cool.

129

Change that didn't take a ton of time or

effort on my part because they gave me

130

suggestions as to how it needed to flow.

131

Brett Deister: And E, even with

that, does it help for marketers to

132

maybe create podcasts or be a guest

on podcast or create the video?

133

Because those are the things that

marketers now have to look at

134

because podcasting exploded during

the pandemic Video exploded during

135

the pandemic, does this help?

136

Just optimize it more for them so they

don't have to think or do a brain dump and

137

try to figure out their own brain dumps.

138

Kendra Corman: Yeah, so I

like brainstorming with ai.

139

I think that there's so much that it

brings to the table when I'm trying

140

to think through certain things and

it comes up with some great ideas.

141

Some, I'm like, yeah, that's not

happening, but it'll be like,

142

interview this, and it's no.

143

But it does give me some

really good suggestions for

144

topics, for a topic outline.

145

I know what themes I wanna create

around different months for my podcast.

146

And so moving into 2024 I've created

different themes for each month.

147

I launched two episodes a week, one

that's an interview podcast, and one

148

that is a solo show where it's usually

15 minutes or less, usually five to seven

149

minutes, where I cover a marketing tip

of some sort, and I'm trying to match

150

those up so that there's some more.

151

It's more seamless for my listeners,

and I think that there's a lot that it

152

has to offer in terms of helping you

brainstorm the ideas and the themes

153

and the rationale behind the themes.

154

It'll look over your website, know

what you're offering, and then it will

155

help you theme your podcast for it.

156

And come up with suggestions for episodes.

157

It can help give you an outline

for your episodes, but I find.

158

You still need to add

that piece of you in it.

159

You can't just take AI generated content.

160

For editing my podcast, I love the

script Riverside, they are both AI tools.

161

They do the whole transcript.

162

They'll do it so that I have

like story shaped videos with

163

my guests and things like that.

164

So it's just, it makes life so

much easier and just gives you.

165

So much opportunity to do things that you

never would've been able to do before ai.

166

Brett Deister: Yeah.

167

Yeah.

168

Podcasting itself would take hours.

169

'cause you would have to figure out,

write a description for it, figure

170

out all the timestamps, write the

timestamps, and then add the filler

171

to whatever you had the filler to.

172

And then for video, I'm more on the.

173

Still on the I do edit all my

videos through DaVinci Resolve, but

174

DaVinci Resolve also adds with the

studio version, an AI transcript.

175

So we'll do, so I have four different AI

transcriptions, so if one it goes awry,

176

I have at least another backup for it.

177

Kendra Corman: Oh my gosh,

that is so funny because.

178

That is so true.

179

I was doing two different transcript.

180

I was doing two of the systems

that I use do transcripts.

181

One of them spelled the

person's name, correct.

182

One of them didn't and so I took

the one that spelled it correctly.

183

Brett Deister: No, it never

spells my last name correctly.

184

I always have to correct it.

185

No, so are we gonna see that more?

186

We're gonna see just like more AI

help with editing because I feel

187

like that does help quite a bit.

188

I use the script if I wanna change

words because it will allow me to.

189

Make it sound more natural.

190

If I just cut a word and it sounds weird.

191

It sounds like the natural like flow

of your tone is off, so are we gonna

192

see more of that type of thing?

193

Hopefully it'll get

better jump cuts too, but

194

Kendra Corman: yeah, I'm hoping

for more better editing overall.

195

There's just so many systems out

there that are helping people do

196

it a lot faster and more efficient.

197

Editing is what has made video a

little bit prohibitive for smaller

198

sized businesses and marketers with

very limited budgets in the past.

199

Because having been the Jeep advertising

manager, I understand what a multi-million

200

dollar commercial shoot looks like, and

the value that editing added was huge.

201

And don't get me wrong.

202

Those people editing still adds

a ton of value that you would not

203

believe, but for smaller businesses

you can make it feel fairly seamless.

204

When it comes to editing out my,

one of my favorite words is, so

205

I use so all the time and it'll

help me edit some of that out.

206

I don't edit out all of them because

then it feels a little bit less

207

authentic and I say the word a lot.

208

It's one of my favorite filler words and I

try to stay cognizant of it and I think I

209

say it more often than I would otherwise.

210

'cause I'm trying to

be so cognizant of it.

211

But, again, just a lot of the little

things with the retouching and the

212

the lighting and just everything

it can do to help smooth out any of

213

those issues that you're having along

the way is just, it's unbelievable.

214

Brett Deister: Yeah, and you also have

editing tool cap cut, which is created by

215

the owner of TikTok, which I've heard is

pretty good for beginner people as well.

216

Kendra Corman: Yeah, so I

have cap cut on my phone.

217

I heard, I think they just came

out with a desktop version now.

218

Brett Deister: Recently.

219

Yeah, there's a desktop version.

220

Kendra Corman: Yes,

there's a desktop version.

221

I haven't played around with that as

much as I have to script, but I plan to

222

keep using it more especially as again,

short form video is still really popular.

223

Brett Deister: And then moving on to

the old school one, email marketing.

224

How important is email marketing

still in the age of social

225

media, in websites, in ai?

226

Kendra Corman: So when it comes to

social media is a pay to play game.

227

For most businesses it doesn't matter how

much you do or what you do, Facebook and

228

LinkedIn, everybody still wants you to

pay to get the exposure on their platform.

229

So you wanna be thinking about that.

230

You don't own social media.

231

A friend of mine is a huge LinkedIn

expert, huge LinkedIn expert.

232

She ended up in LinkedIn jail.

233

If that was her only platform,

she wouldn't have been able to

234

communicate with us for two weeks.

235

Luckily she uses social media in a

smart way and gets people to sign

236

up for some of her freebies or white

papers or downloadables of some sort.

237

They pay with their email address,

and then she was able to tell us

238

that she was in LinkedIn jail.

239

She wasn't at the mercy of LinkedIn

to tell us what was going on.

240

And to be able to continue to

talk with us, her audience, right?

241

And you own email marketing.

242

Social media is an amazing tool.

243

It gets unbelievable reach.

244

I endorse it 100%, but I use it

as a tool to fuel my email list.

245

That is really how you need to be

looking at it, is how can I be able

246

to connect with these people offline?

247

And then when it comes to

websites, those are great.

248

Yeah, you need one, right?

249

You need it to be real.

250

Interesting thing though, nobody's gonna

show up there unless you point them there.

251

So social media will do a little bit

of that, but you really want it to

252

your traffic to blossom in bloom.

253

Send people there from

your email newsletter.

254

Your odds are you're gonna get more

effective and efficient results.

255

From email marketing.

256

Last ad I heard, I think it's still

at $42 return for every dollar

257

you spend on email marketing.

258

There's no other channel

that gives you that return.

259

So again, it's a huge thing

you should be focused on.

260

Brett Deister: No, basically all

of meta is always paid a play

261

except for threads right now.

262

Because it's new.

263

Kendra Corman: Yes.

264

It's never paid a play on something new.

265

Then you get addicted to it

and then you have to pay.

266

Brett Deister: Yeah, true.

267

And for email marketing, should I know

LinkedIn does have a feature for it,

268

should they maybe use it for almost like

a snippet of the actual email newsletter

269

to get them to go to the email newsletter?

270

Kendra Corman: So that's

an interesting thought.

271

I do like that.

272

I actually got someone's email newsletter,

their LinkedIn email newsletter today, and

273

I was looking at it going, I'm like, oh.

274

That's a little bit what I

was thinking about changing my

275

newsletter into in the new year.

276

And I, I was thinking about it, so

there is some reach, but if you're in

277

LinkedIn jail, that's not going anywhere.

278

So you could use those email newsletters

as a way to reach some of your followers.

279

But again, you don't own

it, you own email marketing.

280

So using posts, using videos, you

could use those newsletters as, again,

281

as long as they're driving them.

282

Offline to download something to give you

their email address, to welcome you into

283

their inbox in one way, shape, or form.

284

That's truly the key because you wanna

control when you're talking to them,

285

you don't want them controlling it.

286

And email marketing is so powerful

because even if they don't open it,

287

they see your name in their inbox.

288

That's huge.

289

I've had people reply to my emails

with, Hey, I just was thinking about

290

you because I have this person I

wanna introduce you to, or I think

291

that this person needs help, or, Hey,

we're looking to start this project.

292

Can you help us with it?

293

And it has nothing to do

with the email I sent.

294

It's just such a powerful thing

and most people in the business

295

world are still using email.

296

Brett Deister: It's like the one tech

that will never die for the time being.

297

We never really know what's next.

298

But for the time being, for the long time

being, it's the one thing that never dies.

299

Kendra Corman: I think that people

have been talking about email

300

dying for at least 10 years.

301

It's no, it hasn't yet.

302

It's still going strong.

303

Might it be replaced by

something in the long term?

304

Yeah.

305

But I think we have to start getting

Gen X retiring in a lot larger

306

numbers than we do right now.

307

Gen X is a big, huge user of email

and they've really indoctrinated

308

the organizations to making

sure that they're using it.

309

Brett Deister: That's fair.

310

But yeah, 'cause I would say

Gen X and older millennials, not

311

the younger ones, are probably

the ones that use it the most.

312

And then the younger ones are gonna

be the ones doing the short form.

313

Text or like text message

based type of communication.

314

Kendra Corman: Yes.

315

Whatever that turns out to be.

316

Brett Deister: It could be a weird hybrid

of email and videos at the same time.

317

Kendra Corman: It's gonna

be interesting to see

318

Brett Deister: and how do

you get people to sign up?

319

Is it those freebies?

320

I keep on hearing like the best way

of doing it is freebies, like free

321

like checklist guide for how to start

a podcast or free checklist guide

322

and how to be a guest on a podcast.

323

Like something like similar to that.

324

Kendra Corman: Yeah.

325

So I find that you want people.

326

It depends on the type of business

that you're marketing, right?

327

Because if you've got an online store

and you're willing to pay 10% off or give

328

them free shipping or some sort of added

value, that way, you can do it that way.

329

I strongly recommend that if you're

giving a discount of a decent

330

amount, you wanna get their email

address and their cell phone.

331

You might not be doing SMS

messaging yet, but that's a little

332

bit where things are headed.

333

But email and text are huge in

terms of what you can do with it

334

and how easily you can do with it.

335

If you, again, if you've got

an online store, if you're

336

e-commerce, those are great tools.

337

Give a discount, give something free,

give a free gift, free shipping,

338

whatever that happens to be.

339

And then with more of

the business to business.

340

Professional side of things.

341

Yeah.

342

A download, a guide, how to, a little

mini course, a quiz, any of those

343

things that are gonna add value.

344

You wanna meet your audience where they're

at, and then you wanna think about.

345

So I teach part-time.

346

I'm adjunct faculty at a local

university here in Michigan, and I'm

347

teaching with my students and she's

and we're gonna do email marketing.

348

And I said, great.

349

'cause I love it.

350

How are they?

351

How are you gonna get them to

give you their email address?

352

And she's just are and I'm

like, yeah, no they're not.

353

And the reason that they're not

is 'cause it's valuable, right?

354

You don't mind junk mail showing up

in the mailbox at the end of the,

355

at the end of the driveway or in the

lobby of your apartment building.

356

You can deal with that.

357

'cause you can just throw it out.

358

But when it comes to

email, that's personal.

359

You get more upset and more

annoyed when people that don't have

360

permission to communicate with you

start communicating with you, right?

361

So because it is more personal, it

needs to be more personalized and

362

it needs to be permission based.

363

And so I.

364

I don't want more email.

365

I don't know anybody that

wants any more email, right?

366

So when you're signing up for

an email, you're not actually

367

signing up to join the newsletter.

368

You're signing up for whatever value

that you are, you're being promised.

369

That's the key.

370

So whatever kind of

value you need it to be.

371

That's the answer.

372

I was talking with a marketing coach

earlier this year and she's basically just

373

on LinkedIn and she does a ton of things

on LinkedIn, but she always publishes a

374

post about what she's gonna be covering

in her email newsletter that week,

375

giving people the opportunity to sign up.

376

And almost every single one of her

email newsletters has some sort of

377

guide checklist, something in it.

378

That is exclusive only

to email subscribers.

379

So again, just a ton of different ways

you can do it, but just keep in mind

380

that you are buying their email address

with this item of value and they're

381

paying for it with their email address.

382

Brett Deister: Goes to my next question.

383

Should you buy email lists?

384

Kendra Corman: No, never ever.

385

It's again, email inboxes

are hugely personal.

386

Hugely personal.

387

People get annoyed if you are buy if

someone sold you their email, right?

388

So you definitely don't

wanna be doing that.

389

It also hurts you.

390

It hurts the deliverability

of every other email you send.

391

So when it comes to, one of

the biggest trends right now in

392

email marketing is list hygiene.

393

It's not about the biggest list,

it's about the most engaged list.

394

You want people opening or

filing or clicking, doing

395

an action that tells Yahoo.

396

A OL Outlook, bing, whomever, they're

opening their emails through Gmail,

397

you're, you want them getting signals

that your email is valuable to the

398

people that you're sending it to.

399

That is huge for you and for them.

400

And so when you're sending those emails.

401

The more engaged people are, the better.

402

If you are sending emails and a

lot of people are getting marketing

403

it as spam, disconnecting, things

like that's really where email

404

marketing starts to take a hit.

405

And so less and less of your emails

will actually go into the inbox

406

and more of them will end up in

spam filters and things like that.

407

Brett Deister: Yeah, I

def I definitely will.

408

For those starting out, like your student,

like what email platform should they use?

409

Because there's a ton of, there's

AWeber, MailChimp, constant Contact.

410

I found one called Beehive

all of a sudden which one?

411

Which one's the right one to use?

412

Kendra Corman: There's flow

desk, there's, yeah, we could,

413

Emma, we can go on and on, right?

414

Exact target if it's a big company.

415

So if you're just starting out and

your business is, maybe business to

416

business, especially like coaches,

consultants even insurance could do this.

417

I recommend ConvertKit because they

are free up to a thousand subscribers.

418

No automations or anything like that.

419

But when you're getting started out

and you may not quite know exactly

420

where you wanna go I find that

ConvertKit is a fantastic option.

421

90% of my clients are on constant contact.

422

Constant Contact has one of the highest

deliverability rates in the industry.

423

And a couple years ago they

were bought by private equity.

424

They have invested.

425

In that system, it is unbelievable

the workflows you can set up and

426

the different things that you can

do to make email marketing easier,

427

more targeted, more relevant.

428

It's unbelievable what

they've done to that system.

429

So once you get to a place where you want

to elevate, or if you have quite a few

430

names already and you really wanna get

into automation, again, ConvertKit is a

431

great tool, but constant contact's really

scalable in terms of what it can offer.

432

And it's got add-ons with SMS

messaging as you start to add that.

433

It can really allow you to

build a platform for yourself.

434

Brett Deister: Got you.

435

And then, going back to like you talked

a little bit about just how to measure

436

how well your email list is going.

437

And iOS has basically had the new

option where it just opens it all,

438

so you never really know who's

really opening it and who's not.

439

So what is the right, analytics to

look at is the click through rates.

440

What is the now?

441

Kendra Corman: Yes.

442

So anything that's based off

of opens is a bunch of junk.

443

When I talk about list hygiene I talk

about people opening it to their email.

444

So Gmail knows if you

really opened it or not.

445

Even if my Apple device pre-op it for me.

446

I just don't know that

you opened it type thing.

447

So there opens are still important, but

not as a metric because you're not getting

448

accurate metrics when it comes to that.

449

So anything that's driven off

of opens, so click through

450

rate is a percentage of opens.

451

So that's also not very good.

452

Your click through rate should

be a lot lower than it used to

453

be, and your open rate should be

a lot higher than it used to be.

454

And again, that's because of iOS 15.

455

I recommend looking at total numbers.

456

You wanna look at the total number of

clicks, the number of unique clicks.

457

You want to measure that type of

engagement over anything else.

458

And then when you're setting up like

clicks again is usually what I tell people

459

is probably the most important metric.

460

But I also look at replies.

461

A lot of people will reply to an

email, and it's really interesting

462

to see when they relate to the

content that you're sending them.

463

It takes a little bit for people to

start replying, but after a couple of

464

months, when you get one or two replies

and then five or six whenever you're

465

sending an email newsletter, that's

a metric that's not really measured

466

inside the email marketing system.

467

But if you're tracking your own,

you can go ahead and fill out.

468

Those different metrics and keep track of

them per email to see where you're going.

469

I also recommend tracking list size.

470

You want your overall list to be

growing unless you're changing topics.

471

If you are doing a drastic change

in your business or in your

472

strategy, then you want your list to

shrink a little bit to get started

473

because those people aren't any.

474

Aren't relevant anymore to your

audience and what you have to share.

475

So again, when you're

doing it, you wanna look.

476

It's not necessarily unsubscribes

are bad, but you do wanna see

477

your list growing over time.

478

So if you've got a hundred

unsubscribers, hopefully you've

479

got 150 new subscribers, right?

480

So really taking a look at how

they're engaging with the email and

481

if they're staying on your list,

those are huge ways to measure

482

your email marketing performance.

483

Brett Deister: Does a, does AB testing

play a role in, basically we talk

484

about the flow of it, and this will

be the first part, but the ab testing

485

of it is that part of the way of

figuring out what's gonna resonate

486

with people or not, like changing the

different titles or anything like that?

487

Kendra Corman: Yeah, so AB testing

can add a lot of value to what is

488

gonna get people to open the email.

489

You have less than three seconds.

490

Before they decide if they're going

to open your email or trash it.

491

And so they look at your from name, the,

from email address and the subject line.

492

So if your list is large enough,

if you have 200, 400, 500 people

493

AB testing just keep writing

to your people, you'll be fine.

494

But if you've got 2, 3, 5, 10, 20,

a hundred thousand people on your

495

email list, AB testing can really

make a difference, even if it's.

496

1% increase on a hundred thousand.

497

That's huge, right?

498

So you want to do some

AB testing when you can.

499

Again, it's not free on any of

those systems, but Constant Contact

500

has a really powerful AB testing.

501

It'll do a nice little sample and

then it'll automatically deliver the

502

winner and you can set that timeframe.

503

It also depends on if you have time.

504

So I work with a lot of nonprofits

and so giving Tuesday was a

505

big day that we had for them.

506

And don't get me wrong,

love giving Tuesday.

507

But it has to go on Giving Tuesday.

508

So there's no AB testing

on giving Tuesday, right?

509

Because you have to get it out.

510

So you also have to think about the

timeliness of some of your emails and how

511

many hours can you give it, or how many

days can you give it with an AB test.

512

Brett Deister: Could AI actually help

with that as well for creating those

513

titles or helping you create those titles?

514

Kendra Corman: Constant

contact has AI built in.

515

It'll actually give you suggestions.

516

One of my favorite suggestions that it

gave me was I was writing a newsletter

517

for one of the nonprofits that I work

with, and one of my content writer

518

sent me a screenshot of the different

AI suggestions that it gave us for

519

the newsletter, for the subject line.

520

And one was like, happy March poisoners.

521

Because it's like poison safety month.

522

So sometimes it's wrong but it can give

you some interesting ideas and it's

523

always good to bounce it off of that.

524

I have chat, GPT come up with the

titles of some of my podcasts.

525

When I upload it into Buzz Sprout,

which is the publishing platform

526

that I use, it also has ai.

527

And it gives me different titles and

I pick the one that I like the best.

528

So again, it's just about

options and brainstorming.

529

And sometimes AI can give you an

idea that you didn't think about and

530

maybe you change it a little bit.

531

I.

532

But it's still there, which is huge.

533

I love it.

534

Brett Deister: And then, speaking

on like the flow of the email, how

535

should the flow of the email go?

536

'cause I feel like if the flow is

off, people don't wanna read it.

537

'cause it's like, why am I getting this?

538

Why is it changing to this?

539

Like transitions are

like key for everything.

540

Kendra Corman: Yeah.

541

I always encourage people, less

is more when it comes to email.

542

I'm not necessarily saying length

because it depends on your audience.

543

So your audience is gonna determine

how long your email is, right?

544

Do they like to read a story or do they

really just want five bullet points?

545

That's gonna determine a lot of it.

546

I always encourage people

to write to one person.

547

So think about the person

that you're writing to.

548

Think about that person

that you wanna connect with.

549

Think about that client you

want more business from.

550

That's who you're writing your email to.

551

And then it resonates

with people a lot better.

552

When I work with my nonprofits,

again, they've got a lot of things

553

going on, so those newsletters

are a little bit more, I would say

554

jumpy, for lack of a better term.

555

We have dividers in between them so

that you can see that there's three

556

individual stories with a short intro

paragraph that's maybe one or two

557

sentences, and then a short closing

paragraph again, one or two sentences.

558

When it comes to email marketing,

again, it's the paradox of choice.

559

When people are given too many choices,

they're not gonna pick anything.

560

So if you can write about just one thing.

561

You'll get more engagement

than if you have four.

562

So engagement and clicks

go down for everything.

563

Every option that you add after

one, and then it goes off a cliff

564

when you add more than three.

565

So limit it to three calls to

action max in any of your emails.

566

And again, I think that

helps people stay focused.

567

Brett Deister: You almost need like a

landing page of a catchall for just one.

568

Call to action.

569

So it helps them figure out what to do.

570

Kendra Corman: Exactly.

571

Yeah.

572

Again, people are lazy.

573

They don't read.

574

I had one of my organizations

that I work with, we sent out an

575

end of year letter and everyone's

we got the end of your letter.

576

And I'm like, I didn't

think it went out yet.

577

Are you sure?

578

Yeah, we got it.

579

I'm like, oh, fantastic.

580

And then we find out, no,

it hasn't gone out yet.

581

That was a different letter.

582

That was sent a couple weeks before.

583

Nobody read it.

584

Even the people that worked there didn't

read it like, okay, so people don't read.

585

And so make it as easy as possible.

586

Walk them through it, dumb it down,

for lack of a better term, to just

587

get them through that whole process.

588

Brett Deister: Plus they have

AI that can now read books.

589

So

590

Kendra Corman: yeah, it just

summarizes it all for 'em.

591

Now.

592

Brett Deister: Very true.

593

And where is this all

going for email marketing?

594

Because we're probably gonna see

10 more blog posts, which also

595

people think blogs are dying too,

about how email marketing is dying.

596

So is it going to be

dying any anytime soon?

597

Is there a future to, this is ai, the

future of email marketing for now?

598

Kendra Corman: So I don't think

it's going anywhere anytime soon.

599

I still think, again, a lot of

the people that have the spending

600

power and the money they are.

601

They're reading email.

602

I see it morphing for certain businesses

to text, but texts like your message

603

inbox on your phone is even more personal

than your your email inbox, right?

604

And so we're getting

more restrictive, more.

605

Needing to be more personal and

personalized at every stage.

606

And we're getting to the point where AI is

gonna help us personalize each individual

607

communication so that we're delivering

to people what they want, when they want

608

it, so that they can engage with us and

our brands on just an unbelievable level.

609

Brett Deister: Got you.

610

And then where do you think

content marketing is going as well?

611

Because it seems to be email

marketing, content marketing are work

612

together, but they're still different.

613

Kendra Corman: Yeah, they go to

gather really well because you need

614

content for email marketing, right?

615

You need people to go, you need

to have something to start with.

616

And I think when it comes to content

marketing, the people that are

617

generating unique content, that's

value added, that has their expertise.

618

And their voice are going to stand out

in a even more crowded marketplace.

619

As we continue to see AI start to

generate more and more content.

620

They used to say, content is

king, and then they started

621

saying, good content is king.

622

I think it's going to be good.

623

Unique content is king.

624

So again, you can still

leverage AI for that.

625

Again, I'm a huge fan of ai, but.

626

While you're leveraging it, you need

to make sure that you're adding in that

627

piece of you or that piece of your brand

to make it unique and distinctive and

628

value added so that it's not something

else that they can get anywhere else.

629

Brett Deister: All right.

630

Where can people find you online?

631

I.

632

Kendra Corman: So people can find

me online@kendrickcorman.com.

633

You can check out my podcast, which

is Imperfect Marketing, wherever

634

you listen to podcasts or on YouTube

at Imperfect Marketing Podcast.

635

Brett Deister: Alright, any

final thoughts for listeners?

636

I.

637

Kendra Corman: So good luck as

you guys battle AI and the crowded

638

marketplace as we are all as marketers

trying to differentiate ourselves.

639

Those of us who are good at

differentiating are gonna make a

640

difference and I wish you luck.

641

Brett Deister: Alright, thank you

Kendra for joining Digital Coffee

642

Marketing brings sharing knowledge on

content marketing and email marketing.

643

Kendra Corman: Thanks again

644

Brett Deister: and

thank you for listening.

645

As always, please subscribe to

this podcast and all your favorite

646

podcasting apps and the five

star Review always does help.

647

And join us next time as we

talk to your great father in

648

the PR and marketing industry.

649

Alright guys, stay safe and understand

your email marketing and your content

650

marketing and see you next time later.