Shownotes
- Coaching and Financial Planning Go Hand-in-Hand: Melissa uses coaching to help her clients explore their beliefs, mindsets, and values around money before making major financial decisions. This helps clients navigate their financial journeys more confidently and authentically.
- Take Time to Understand Your Situation: Inheriting wealth is an emotional and complex process. Melissa highlighted the importance of not making any major, permanent decisions too soon. Allow yourself a decision-free period to process the change.
- The Importance of Working with a Fiduciary: Melissa stresses the importance of choosing advisers who are fiduciaries—professionals legally obligated to act in their client’s best interest—to help navigate the complexities of inherited wealth.
- Shift Your Perspective: Transforming your mindset from 'I don’t deserve this' to a more empowering view can drastically change how you handle inheritance. Embracing self-love and understanding your own worth are critical steps in this process.
- Engage in Self-Discovery Before Inheritance: If possible, begin exploring your values and preferences before actually receiving an inheritance. This preparation can make a significant difference when you do have to handle it.
- Raising Financially Fit Kids by Joline Godfrey
- The Wealth Conservancy, Inc.
- Way Into Wealth: Melissa's coaching program for easing into affluence.
Transcripts
Alright, everybody. Thanks for listening today. My guest is Melissa Hoyer from The Wealth Conservancy in Boulder, Colorado. Melissa is a CFP, certified financial planner. She is also a certified coach, which I'm interested in learning more about today. Melissa, welcome to Modern Financial Wellness. Thanks so much for taking the time.
Melissa Hoyer [:You're welcome, and thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to this conversation.
Jim Grace [:Likewise. So we had a chance to catch up a little bit, learn a little bit about each other, and I was really interested and excited to talk to you again, and share your your background and your expertise with folks. We're gonna be talking about inheritors, inheritance today, and this idea of coming into wealth and some of the things to look out for and think about when you're in that situation. But before we get into the details, would you mind just telling us a little bit about your background, and I think specifically about the coaching certification, maybe how that made its way into your practice and and process?
Melissa Hoyer [:Yeah. Absolutely. So, I started here about twenty years ago, and it's a very unique place to work because we work with individuals who have significant inheritances.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:So our focus is really on helping understand what the big picture looks like and helping people live in the world as an inheritor who is historically a group of people who are villainized. So it's we have a safe space where people can talk and learn and grow. And then we also help inheritors figure out their own estate planning. So it's a different process. We meet with people weekly for a very long time until we get things squared away. Mhmm. And, and so part of that is very much about coaching, very much about coaching. So about five years into it, I decided I wanted to get better at coaching because I really loved that.
Melissa Hoyer [:Like, that just was my my passion and the work that I was doing. And I could see that it was making a difference. So I I ended up doing a coaching program called, Co Active Coaching with a group, the Coaches Training Institute in San Rafael, California. Highly recommend that training program. And I thought I just wanted to get better at coaching, and I got bit by the coaching bug. And so it was a big adventure where I ended up getting certified, and then I ended up doing a year long leadership training program and, and spent some time away from the wealth conservancy to get enough hours to get my professional coaching designation. And then when that happened, I came back and merged the two together.
Jim Grace [:That's great. That's great. It's, it's really interesting to me the whole world of coaching. I've kinda done a a one eighty on the profession over the years. Mhmm. You know, way back when a decade ago, I would have wondered to myself who would hire a coach. And now I find myself as a financial planner realizing that a lot of the work that we do with clients on a day to day basis really comes down to what looks and feels and is a lot like coaching. So it's really cool to talk to other practitioners like yourself who who have made that kind of investment and then incorporated that work into your process to help people.
Jim Grace [:That's super cool. So I'm looking forward again to to kinda talking to you about how that, put is put into practice in the work that you do. Mhmm. You said something about the types of clients you work with, inheritors, being villainized. I just wanted to pause there. What what do you mean by that, that they're they're villainized? What are they up against out there in the world?
Melissa Hoyer [:Well, a lot of people's perception and that they have it easy, that they didn't earn it, they don't deserve it, or people just might have, you know, an attitude with people with money. And so it feels like they have to be really guarded.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And that can be very isolating for people with inherited wealth.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Can you tell us a little bit more when somebody comes into wealth, they've had this inheritance, and they show up at the wealth conservancy. What do you typically find with the clients that you meet with initially? What's going on mentally, emotionally? Obviously, they've often lost somebody that they love, which is an emotional situation to begin with, but then they have this pile of money to deal with. What are you typically finding in these folks? What what kind of state are they in when they they show up at your door?
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm. You're right that they're typically going through some type of significant life transition. And so I think they're feeling if they especially if well, I guess I would say a lot of people who come here to work with us haven't been prepared for the inheritance, and so they're feeling overwhelmed. And it's a brand I mean, it's like walking into CFP world without ever having studied for it or estate planning without ever having studied for it. So it's just all of the acronyms and the lingo and the concepts and everything is so foreign in addition to whatever they're experiencing from an emotional standpoint being in this transition. So I'd say just a lot of overwhelm, confusion, and wanting to to do things the right way.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Yeah. And but not being prepared for it. Right? Especially a lot of these things come at us suddenly. So it's obviously a huge transition when you lose somebody. Mhmm. But then also to be coming into wealth in that way suddenly, I'm I'm sure it can be challenging for a lot of people. Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:Exactly.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. You and I have talked about, some of the stages of inheritance, and I thought that might be worthwhile to explore a little bit in the outset of our conversation. Can you describe the stages of inheritance and what people are going through in in some of these different stages?
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm. And that's a this is a good time to to talk about that because when people come in, they're often in one of the first two stages of inherited wealth, And one of them is innocence. And that's the stage where you have no idea what you have or how it works, and you are feeling grateful to have this money to help you in life, but you don't really know how much you have. And maybe there's a a sense of, you know, feeling disempowered or not respected by other advisers you're working with because you just don't you just don't know. And you that person hasn't taken the time to learn about it yet.
Jim Grace [:Kinda like deer in headlights.
Melissa Hoyer [:Deer in headlights. Yeah. Yeah. And then another stage is denial. And that's a stage just like it sounds where people aren't relating to what's happening and they might be ashamed. They might be scared. So they just pretend like it doesn't exist.
Jim Grace [:So they're putting things off, not dealing with things that need to be dealt with. Mhmm. Just don't don't wanna go there.
Melissa Hoyer [:Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Then there's we were just talking about the transition that people have, and then there's there's a certain point in time when either, you know, loved one has died and they're inheriting or a trust is going to have a major distribution, or even they've had the distribution and they've been in innocence or denial, but they've been getting along. But maybe they have a a birth of a child, and they're like, okay. I really need to figure this out. So that is the stage called an ignorant acceptance. You you accept your situation and your circumstances, and you recognize that it's time to start learning.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Yeah. One thing I'm maybe worth pointing out, all of these stages make a lot of sense. Right? It's totally normal. I think even if you're not in a situation where you've lost a loved one, people can be overwhelmed and not understand their financial situation. A lot of us, I think, are in innocence Mhmm. To our finances just in a normal day to day situation Mhmm. Or denial.
Jim Grace [:We don't wanna deal with the things we need to financially. Mhmm. But when somebody passes away, it just feels like that jacks up the intensity of all of it. Right? It makes it much more difficult to deal with. So innocence, denial, ignorant acceptance. I I need to make some change. Are there other stages, or are those those the three?
Melissa Hoyer [:Well, the next stage is learning and growing. And so when people come to us, that's the stage that we spend a lot of time in is learning and growing.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And then after learning and growing, the the final stage is called integrated authority. And that's where you've learned what you learned. You know, what your strengths and weaknesses are. You understand what you wanna be in charge of and what you'd rather delegate with authority.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And you have your systems in place, and you're allowing your wealth to, nourish you and your hopes and dreams and goals. It's not getting in the way of you doing that. Mhmm. So that that is a part that comes with education, and that's the part that also comes with coaching.
Jim Grace [:And what does that look like, and how long does that process take typically?
Melissa Hoyer [:So it could take a while. There is a program I start out with with people called Way Into Wealth, and it's a structured eight session coaching program where we start out by the first couple sessions. Really, I think of an analogy of, like, going into an attic where you find all these old boxes and you look in them to see what's in there. We kind of do that except inside your yourself. Right? And we try to uncover the habits, beliefs, and attitudes that people have around money. So then then that really comes to light. I have this picture I have this picture of a
Jim Grace [:Iceberg? Iceberg.
Melissa Hoyer [:Thank you. And so in coaching, you know, we always say the tip, but in in coaching these first couple sessions, what we try to do is move this waterline down a little bit and expose what's in there.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And why that's so important is because when we have unconscious beliefs, habits, and attitudes driving us, it's really hard to become an integrated authority or make any kind of desired change.
Jim Grace [:Right.
Melissa Hoyer [:Right. So the idea is to recognize what are those things and just clarify it. Here's some beliefs that were handed down to me, and here are some, you know, habits I developed around that. And some of them will be serving you well, and others, people may want to transform in the process of coaching, things that just don't serve them.
Jim Grace [:It brings up an interesting point because we talk about habits, beliefs, values, these ingrained things, when we're talking with clients through our our financial planning process as well. It's always surprising to me how much of that lives in our subconscious and how much of that we actually inherited from our parents. So to use a hypothetical example, I'd imagine a lot of the folks that you work with are receiving money from their parents. Right? So they're receiving this wealth that they have to deal with. And now they're faced with wrestling with, what else did I inherit from them? Yes. What else have I been carrying around? Do you find that that's an equally difficult experience for them to realize the way that I look at the world isn't maybe necessarily serving me. It just took that from my parents who are no longer here.
Melissa Hoyer [:Yep. 100 spot on with that. Is your like, what are you inheriting? Right? There's so much that we're inheriting along with the money. So part of the process is untangling what is truly me in my heart, what's authentic to me, what are my, at this point in time, beliefs, thoughts, attitudes, and what is my mom or my dad? Like, what are those different voices? Or my grandmother, who know you know, all the the people in the family.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:So part of it is just untangling that and choosing at that point in time, oh, I so appreciate this. Ready to let that go, and here's what I want now. And some of it is like that thank you so much. Let's take this into the future, these thoughts. So Mhmm. That's what that whole first part is about. And that's not about the money, and sometimes it might be happening in conjunction with the money understanding and and understanding the trusts and the accounts and the investments and things like that, but it's a totally separate thing.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. I'm almost thinking about it. It's like that's the pre inheritance. You've already inherited those things. Right? We're walking around with those mindsets and beliefs before. Yeah.
Jim Grace [:In this example, our parents pass away. Mhmm. But we're faced with if we haven't done the work before to kinda figure out those things, we're faced with having to sort that out while we're dealing with the money, right, and and moving forward. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. So tell us more about that that eight step, eight session process. So it's it's a bit of a discovery upfront and figuring out who we are, what's gonna serve us, and then then where do you go from there?
Melissa Hoyer [:And where we go from there is, we we actually work with a challenge that might come out of those first couple sessions, the thing that that's hard to let go of. And we do a coaching session around that to find some, openness, some flexibility, and really help to shift that into something more productive and positive for the person.
Jim Grace [:What might that look like? Do you have an example? What what do people what challenges they face? What do they need to let go?
Melissa Hoyer [:Yes. Well, what challenges do people face? It could be allowing themselves to feel wealthy, allowing themselves to enjoy the wealth. It could be having conversations with family members.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:That feels challenging, asking asking questions if they feel like they don't know enough and they feel intimidated to do that. Or I mean, there's just so many challenges that could come up with that, and it's really personal to each person.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. We talked about this a little bit prior to our conversation today, but, I coincidentally had two women who lost their fathers last year, and I worked with them through that process. And one in particular was kind of interesting. There was some family dynamics Mhmm. At play Mhmm. And some questions about who got what.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm. And it was interesting to kinda watch her, experience that and really struggle to kind of find some voice. She was almost asking for permission to question and step up for herself at the table. Right? And that's that's interesting again to just kind of, watch people go through that experience and face those challenges. It's it's a really daunting task.
Melissa Hoyer [:I totally agree, and I I think that's really insightful. And when people are having, an experience like that, a big change or they're inheriting, you know, we say money magnifies. So if there are patterns, it's it's hard to speak up in general. And then when something like this happens, it's so much more magnified that it can be even harder yet. It can be also really necessary to do that. So it's really important to to grow in those moments.
Jim Grace [:Right. Right. Yeah. And in our biggest challenging moments, there's usually the most opportunity for growth. Right? Even though it feels like you're facing an insurmountable task. Right? Those challenges are an opportunity for us to grow as as human beings and people. Yeah. Yeah.
Jim Grace [:So, what else? Take us through that because I think this is all really useful to understand your process and because I think a lot of people will will benefit and and have a similar path. What what else do you kinda help people with through those sessions?
Melissa Hoyer [:Well, the the session itself that I'm talking about that can be so transformative in overcoming blocks is all a session all about working with perspective. So it's just a coaching exercise that leads people through alright. Here's how I'm currently viewing the situation, and here's how it feels, and here's where it's taking me. Like, I just can't speak up. I'm afraid. What if I get in trouble? What if I look stupid? Or whatever it is. That's not helping them get to the final outcome of, you know, being able to have the conversation with the people so that they can move forward with the state settlement or whatever it is.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:So the process is looking like, okay, well, what if, you know, what is an opportunity for you to grow in this situation? What which of your strengths could be, you know, grown in this situation? Which one of your values could be amplified as you go through this? And if if you were to amplify that value, what does it look like if you're coming at it from that perspective? So we just look at a bunch of different perspectives, and it's so simple.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And then through that process, people realize, oh, there are other ways to see this. And then what's so important about that is you can just choose. Okay. I'm gonna choose this perspective. And then you've got that tool in your back pocket
Jim Grace [:Right.
Melissa Hoyer [:From there there on for the rest of your life. Okay. Here's another way I can look at it when you catch yourself in the old patterns, which we do for a really long time Right. Until we change.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. One of the women that I mentioned, she felt under a tremendous amount of pressure. So even though she received an inheritance and it was really a gift that her father left her that gave her some financial independence and a path forward, she had really tough time taking that perspective because the idea, that she received was like, I don't wanna mess this up. Right. And her father was almost her de facto financial adviser for a lot of years. He was her resource. And even though he set himself up financially and did the planning work to make sure that her and her brother received this inheritance, and it was truly a gift, again, that provided her that financial independence, she just had a really tough time getting through that perspective switch.
Melissa Hoyer [:Right.
Jim Grace [:That it it was a gift and it wasn't a burden, but she really felt like a burden.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:And it sounds like that's what you're describing here is kinda switching that perspective.
Melissa Hoyer [:Exactly. And it and it often does feel like a burden, and it often is a burden. And, you know, it's really understandable in a situation like what you're describing that if she's never done the things before, manage the investments, or been in charge, or knows what that inheritance means to her, of course, it's going to feel like a burden. And I'm sure you did a really great job of helping her see the big picture and understand it so that over time, it feels less so. And over time, you start to integrate it as you take more responsibility for it.
Jim Grace [:Right. Right. So what would be next in terms of changing mindset, changing perspective, thinking about those values that you wanna focus on and and move forward with? Where do you take folks from there?
Melissa Hoyer [:We take them into a visioning exercise. So the next couple of sessions are all about them defining what integrated authority from those stages. What does that look like for them personally? Because it's gonna look different for everybody. What are the values that they wanna honor? What are the, the perspectives that they want to embrace as so they could step into that fully
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And keep choosing that over and over. And how does that trickle down and translate to what they're focusing on? What are they prioritizing? What are they letting go of specifically, and what are new actions, habits, and beliefs that they're gonna replace those with?
Jim Grace [:Right. Right. How do you talk to people about values? Because it's such an important topic. Mhmm. But it it can feel like as I ask somebody to describe what their current values or beliefs are, it sounds like a unfair question. It's just this big Yeah. Ambiguous term. Right? How do you help people, like, really narrow down that idea of what my personal values are? What's important to me? Right.
Melissa Hoyer [:Well, it's a super fun activity. And what happens is through the first couple of discussions that we have uncovering their habits and beliefs, what we do is we look back to that and say, okay. Well, I'm hearing that this is really important to you. And all of a sudden, instead of being asked, okay. What are my values? I don't know. You look back and say, well, here's here's who I am, and here's what is naturally coming up as important to me. So we just kind of say circle them. Like, okay.
Melissa Hoyer [:This is it. This is a value. And then we might take it a little bit further to say, okay. You know, what's a, value? Like, generosity is, an important value of yours. Okay. What does that mean to you? And we might clarify it with a few extra words on what generosity means to that person.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And I like to stick with five values, and I call them value strings, like what I'm talking about. Like, okay. Here's generosity. What does that mean to you? Here's confidence. How does that look for you? And then we start to just hone in on those top five values to implement into their their new actions.
Jim Grace [:That's great. That's great. And what's interesting and I maybe just wanna highlight. You're talking about a coaching process, essentially, that spans eight sessions. And we're talking about inheritance, but you haven't talked about money yet.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:Right? I mean, there's a lot of work that goes into, you know, preparing yourself to make financial decisions, it sounds like.
Melissa Hoyer [:So that's exactly right. And and we do talk about money in that, in the first part, we do that, money archetype assessment. So that kinda brings up the conversation about money, but not from a dollars and cents perspective. But it may you know, money does come up in that conversation.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm. Mhmm. Right. But it's more, when you're getting at beliefs and mindsets around money, maybe how you grew up, how was your family wealthy at that point or not, how you experienced money, but not the practical. We're not making decisions about how to invest or asset allocation upfront.
Melissa Hoyer [:Totally. Yep. So that's exactly right. So they're defining their them at their best with money before they start making those decisions so that they can feel really empowered and ask the questions they wanna ask and align their decisions about everything with what they truly want.
Jim Grace [:Right. Right. So you've told people get to this point where they've, defined what their own values are.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:Right? And starting to create these action steps on how they want to implement and kinda live their their life moving forward. Do you feel like when you get to that point, you've built a lot of momentum, and it becomes almost easier to start to develop the plans once you've done that work upfront?
Melissa Hoyer [:Yeah. That's that's very insightful. And there is because at that point, people feel more empowered, and they feel more excited about the possibilities and opportunities. Mhmm. So there is more momentum because there's genuine excitement and confidence that builds.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm. Yeah. That's great. That's great. Do you wanna share any more about the coaching process? Is there anything else you'd you'd wanna spotlight at that point moving forward?
Melissa Hoyer [:Well, I guess the last well, I guess there is one more thing that I would spotlight is when we shift into the last part, it's all about creating the financial road map, and that's where we kind of, like, the rubber meets the road kind of thing. We okay. Here's the financial pie picture, all the different areas. You know, where are you now? Where would you like to be? And what would help get you there? And then we really create an action plan from there.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And, again, it's coming from them. Like, they'll know. It it's not me telling them what they need to do next. It's I mean, I'm here as a guide if they want ideas or suggestions or something, but it really is coming from their place of knowing. So that that's really powerful also in helping people move forward.
Jim Grace [:And that that's kind of an aspect of coaching that I really come to really appreciate is that it's more about being a guide. Right? You're not you don't strike me as the expert investment adviser that's looking at a pile of wealth and telling people what to do. Right. Right? You're kinda taking them on a journey of exploration and guiding them to where they wanna go. Right. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's great.
Jim Grace [:That's awesome.
Melissa Hoyer [:Well, the last thing I'll mention about the program because I think it's really important is anytime we start to show up differently in our world, you know, in our financial life, let's say we're starting to ask the questions and people are like, who are you? The, you know, there's all sorts of, change that happens because we're part of all these systems. And one thing that I do with clients is we do a a self compassion exercise. Because if you're all excited about this change and you go to make the change and you have an experience that feels difficult or or hard, it's so much harder to keep moving forward if you don't have self compassion and say, okay. I'm trying things out. This is why I did this. We'll work through this. Let's keep moving forward. Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:So I
Melissa Hoyer [:think that's a really important part of this transition that inheritors are in Right. That time. Right.
Jim Grace [:Can I ask a a specific question about, worthiness? Or one of the things that I've has kinda popped up when I've I've had these experience with the clients is like, and I I you touched on this, but I wanted to call it out specifically. It's almost like they don't feel like they deserve it. Mhmm. Right? They're not worthy of this. They didn't earn it. You talked about that a a little bit, I think, earlier.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:Can we explore that a little bit? How do you help people with that mindset change specifically? What would you say to those folks throughout your sessions if they're kinda coming back to this mindset? Like, they just can't accept it, because they don't feel like they deserve it.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm. That's a tough one, and that's a really good observation. And I think it does come back to what I was just talking about in terms of self self compassion, or you could say self love.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:Like, I am just worthy because I exist.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:I am worthy of this abundance. I'm worthy of feeling the abundance.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And that's actually one of the hardest things for humans to do is to actually develop that level of self love and compassion. So I think it's a journey, and I think that the coaching process, helping them get excited and empowered along with the financial education process, there's sort of an, transformation that happens with all of that. So I don't think it's a unfortunately, like, here's how how here's how you do it. I think it's just being in the learning and the growing
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And and just integrating with it from an authentic place.
Jim Grace [:Right.
Melissa Hoyer [:And one day you go, Alright. Here I am.
Jim Grace [:Just being open to the growth. Right? Facing the challenge, being open to the growth. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. So you shared, some mistakes that people make when they inherit and things to possibly avoid, and I thought it was a great list. Would you mind going through that together and just maybe, you know, sharing some examples or just highlighting for things things for people to think about if they find themselves Mhmm. In this situation? Yep.
Jim Grace [:So the first one, number one, don't sign documents you don't understand. Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:Right. Tell
Jim Grace [:us more about that.
Melissa Hoyer [:Right. Well, a lot of times when you have advisers for the family and, you know, a transition happens, whether it's the death of a loved one or a trust coming due or something, you may be called into the office. We've seen this happen where people say sign here. And they may be signing their assets into another trust that has limited control. Who knows what? But part of that learning and growing is to say, I hear I need to sign this. When's the deadline? I'm gonna need a week to review this.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:So making sure that you read and understand every single document so you know what you're signing up for.
Jim Grace [:Right. Right. And, again, within the context of what we're talking about in those stages, which sound a lot like stages of grief. Right? You've just lost somebody.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:I think it's easy to get not pressured because I I I don't wanna suggest that other advisers are pressuring people to sign documents. But the lack of understanding that innocence stage where we don't know what's happening and we've just lost somebody, it's great advice not to just go signing things that that you don't understand. That makes a lot of sense.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm. Yeah. And if you don't understand what you're signing, find a trusted adviser or fiduciary who's on your team who can help you interpret the document.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. We'll skip number two and go to three because you just brought it up. But number three is not working with a fiduciary. Can you tell us a little bit more about that one?
Melissa Hoyer [:Well, I'm a believer in a fiduciary financial adviser because fiduciary financial advisers are required by law to do what's in the client's best interest, and I don't know why you'd wanna work with anyone else. And I know from working with other people who've inherited, they have all sorts of people pitching to them when they haven't understood the big picture yet.
Jim Grace [:Right.
Melissa Hoyer [:And that's confusing and intimidating, and so that's why I would recommend working with a fiduciary.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Yeah. It's always one of those things that feels like it should go without saying, but it's just not the case in the industry. There's different standards of care that apply to different advisers depending on where they are and who they work for.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:So it's definitely worth worth calling out, especially in these situations. Mhmm. Yeah.
Melissa Hoyer [:And just asking. And then, you know, are you a fiduciary? And, you could ask to read the adviser's ADV disclosure document to find out how they're getting paid and and, whether they're a fiduciary.
Jim Grace [:Right. Right. Number two, mistake to avoid, making permanent decisions too soon.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm. So and I I'm pretty sure we talked about this too. When a big event happens, there is this, we call it the cauldron of chaos and the adaptive change model. Right? There's this period of time where everything you knew no longer is, and you don't quite know what the new normal looks like yet. And it's and you're processing grief or emotions or whatever, is happening for you. And so give yourself a decision free period of time, six months or a year, where you, you you know, maybe you're working with someone who can prioritize what actually haps absolutely has to be done, and you just get that done. And then you give yourself time
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:To heal.
Jim Grace [:Right. Right. So there are certainly things that need to get done. Right? If you're settling in a state, if that responsibility is falling in your lap, there are certain things that you have to tackle. Mhmm. Right. But making decisions about how you want to invest and what that's gonna look like, there's no urgency
Melissa Hoyer [:Right.
Jim Grace [:To get a lot of that other stuff done. Exactly. If you're in an inheritance situation. Yeah. It's great advice. Similar, number four is being paralyzed, for fear of making a mistake.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:So this is kind of the opposite. It's like not taking action.
Melissa Hoyer [:Exactly. Right.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Tell us more about that.
Melissa Hoyer [:So after the decision free zone, it's easy to to stay in the innocence or denial if you're afraid because you've never, made these kinds of decisions before or been in this world before. So it can be paralyzing to be there. So at some point in time, it's really important to take baby steps to move forward because that's part of your growth in learning how to manage this wealth.
Jim Grace [:Right. Right. And, again, I I keep thinking about the clients that I work with who are not inheritors, who are just overwhelmed or lack understanding and have trouble taking action because of fear, just in normal circumstances. And, again, if we're framing this within the context that they've lost a loved one and and like you said, what what was is is not anymore. They're living in a different world. It can make that more challenging for those folks to start to take some action
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:And and move forward. Mhmm. Yeah. It makes a lot of sense. Not understanding the big picture. Mhmm. What do you mean by that?
Melissa Hoyer [:Well, it's impossible, as you know, to make a decision if you don't understand what your parameters are and how it works. So what does the million dollar inheritance mean to you? Does that mean you never have to work again? Does it mean you can buy a yacht and travel around the world? What what does that mean? Does it mean that you don't need to continue contributing to your four zero one k? I who knows? But really understanding what the big pictures are, what the rules are, how it works, and what that means for you in your life is so important in order to to make decisions.
Jim Grace [:Right. Right. And that kinda ties into not making big decisions too soon until you have that understanding. Mhmm. And just to highlight for folks, if if you work with people in this coaching model over eight sessions, if we're hoping that people don't make big decisions for, you know, a cooling off period or a settling period of six months, a year, We're really talking about a long time time line, right, to gain the understanding, to get to the point. So I just I wanted to click in on that and just make the point again if people aren't picking that up. Take your time. Right? Gaining an understanding, defining what your own values are, and where you wanna be moving forward is so important before you start, you know, pressing buttons and and and making decisions for yourself moving forward.
Jim Grace [:So so critical.
Melissa Hoyer [:I wholeheartedly agree. It is a process, and be patient.
Jim Grace [:Right.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm. Right.
Jim Grace [:Not working with somebody who understands the complexities and emotional impact of inherited wealth.
Melissa Hoyer [:Right. That goes back to what we were talking about earlier in terms of, inheritors having different reception in the world by different people. So having advisors and people in their life who can understand what they're going through and what the situation is can help them relax and have a safe space to just process what is happening.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:A lot of times, even therapists aren't tuned into inherited wealth or Mhmm. Money in and of itself. So finding advisors who can, have an understanding of that and create a safe space for people to to just talk
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Yeah. Can make
Melissa Hoyer [:the process a lot more pleasant.
Jim Grace [:Right. Right. And, again, you know, there's all the complexities of settling in a state, making decisions about your own financial plans moving forward. There's a lot of technical decisions that you have to make. But when you layer emotion onto anything, it makes it even more challenging. Right? So working with somebody that understands the interplay of both those things, it can be a huge value add if you're in that in that situation. Makes total total sense. And then the last one, staying with inherited family, teams of advisers.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:So a lot of times, we we've seen this a lot where there are a team of advisers that have been working with a family for generations, and that's great. And, when people are in the learning and growing phase and the integrated authority phase, it's important to just ask, who are these people working for? Do they have my back? Do I need someone who is looking out for me in this situation? And, do I feel comfortable asking them questions? Do I click with them? So it's just if you interview them along with a few other advisers
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:You people have the opportunity to choose who they're going to work with. It's not inherited also. It can be
Jim Grace [:Right.
Melissa Hoyer [:If you want it to be, but just know that you have choice, and and you can interview different people and go with the person who feels like you feel a connection with.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. That's great advice. And I like the way that you describe that. Similarly to inheriting the wealth or inheriting the mindsets and beliefs, I feel like a lot of people feel like they're gonna inherit their family's adviser. Mhmm. That's just the way it's gonna go.
Melissa Hoyer [:Right.
Jim Grace [:And there could be a lot of reasons for that. Mhmm. But just like you don't have to make any decisions if you don't have an understanding, you you can decide who you wanna work with and in what capacity, and make those decisions if you pause and and look around. Right? Talk to some other people. You don't have to stay in that situation. Do you find that it's easier to for folks to kinda sort out their own values, mindsets, beliefs, kinda go through this process if they get a fresh start with a new adviser? I don't know if that's a really well articulated question.
Melissa Hoyer [:Yeah. No. I hear what you're saying. And I think there is a benefit to having a fresh start and a fresh pair of eyes. And sometimes it doesn't have to mean letting go of the other advisers too because there's there's a lot of how's the expression? Are you happy because you're comfortable or comfortable because you're happy? Right? So
Jim Grace [:Right.
Melissa Hoyer [:So it could be that they they have someone on that they're working with personally who collaborates with the family advisors.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:So it's not necessarily an either or.
Jim Grace [:Right.
Melissa Hoyer [:But I do think it's important, especially when something has been going on for generations. I think it's great to have a fresh set of eyes.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Yeah. Especially, it feels like the world is kinda changing. The idea of incorporating coaching into a financial planning process is, in my opinion, kinda new. Right? It's been around, but it's becoming more and more popular. So if your folks have been with an advisory team for many, many years and it's kind of the, you know, straightforward asset management, wealth management model, they might not have the exposure that somebody like you Mhmm. Has to some of these other modalities and frameworks and ways to really help people where they need it. Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:So I I always think now more than ever, it's really useful to look around and try to find somebody that aligns, and has the expertise that can help you where where you are. Right? And that might not be in the existing relationship that your parents had or whoever you receive these funds from. Right. Right.
Melissa Hoyer [:Yeah. And I I think that can even perpetuate some of the denial or innocence phase if you're like, I just I'm not resonating with this person, and this is this is it. I don't know what to do. Mhmm. But I think that what I'm my takeaway from this conversation so far is take a deep breath. You have time, and, and you have choice.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. I would agree. Definitely take your time. You definitely have a voice. The other thing that's coming up for me, I can't help but feel like people would benefit from this work prior to somebody passing away. Do you do any pre inheritance work? I don't know if that's the right description. But it feels like, you know, starting to think about these things, if your parents are getting older, if you know there's wealth in the family, if you know you're going to receive a herident inheritance that you could benefit from starting this process maybe a little bit sooner.
Melissa Hoyer [:Absolutely. And, occasionally, we have had people come here wanting to prepare themselves for something they they knew would be coming down the line in the next few years. Mhmm. That is ideal. That would be ideal.
Jim Grace [:Right. Because I feel like this is tough stuff for a lot of people to explore. Right? You know, personal growth, self compassion, like, doing this work, it can be challenging for people to kinda warm up to or find motivation Yeah. To get into. But it I just can't help but feel like, you know, trying to do those things while dealing with the actual group grief of losing a loved one Mhmm. You know, the better prepared we can be with some of these things and and have some some idea of who we are and and where we wanna be in the future would would benefit us from kinda getting on this early.
Melissa Hoyer [:That would be amazing. And you and I know what is involved within a state settlement. It is so much work. Mhmm. So I think we both can see how if you were to do this sooner, you've already laid the groundwork for the emotions and the and maybe even done some planning around all the administrative things so that when, a change does happen, it just feels more fluid. It feels Yeah. Just a little less, heavy.
Jim Grace [:It's really and I was having this conversation with my wife. We were both thinking about our parents who are getting older, and we were thinking about it from the estate settlement standpoint. Where are the documents? What what's in place? Are the beneficiaries updated? Who's gonna need to do what? What are our parents' wishes? All that stuff that comes with the administration Mhmm. Of an estate is it's a big project in and of itself. Right?
Melissa Hoyer [:And then Enormous. Yeah.
Jim Grace [:Right? So while you're if you're the trustee of an estate in in addition to being an inheritor Mhmm. You know, it's it's a lot to ask to then layer on top of that self exploration, right, to set yourself up the way that you need to be. And not that it's not beneficial if it's all happening at once, but to be better prepared. And that's why I love these conversations. It's just, hopefully, people listening, if they might find themselves in that situation where they're gonna come into money, you can start thinking about these things now. Right? You don't have to wait till somebody passes away to either prepare yourself for that technical administration side or maybe most importantly, start to think about who you are as a person. How are things gonna change for you, and where do you wanna be moving forward? So, I love these conversations. Well Is there anything
Melissa Hoyer [:One one thing on that is one one thing I recognize for people who do wanna plan ahead in that in that arena, every family is so different, and some parents are really approachable when you ask about, hey. I just wanna make sure you're taken care of, and I wanna understand what's expected of me. Can we have a conversation? Some parents are really receptive to that. And and a lot of families, especially with inherited wealth, there's a lot of secrecy.
Jim Grace [:Yes. You bring up an awesome point, and I'm so glad we arrived at this. I'm here saying, let's prepare for it, right, which would involve maybe getting some information from the people who are due to pass away. But that's a difficult conversation for them to have, right, within a lot of cases. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Do you have any ideas on how to make that conversation happen or to maybe open up discussion between generations?
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm. So I would say, first, going through a program like Weighing to Wealth and really understanding your own situation, because then you have some base knowledge and confidence. So that when you approach it with your parents, you can you can just come from that place of confidence. Mhmm. And, and again, every every family is so so different. And if it's a family that's not gonna be receptive, maybe that's a whole different ballgame. But I I think just like I said, just saying, look, mom and dad, you know, we wanna make sure that you're taken care of and in good hands, and I'd love to know what you're wanting. And I'd love to know what's expected of me and so that we can make sure we're we're doing everything to support you.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Yeah. It's great advice. And it it's interesting too if you are in a situation where maybe parents aren't receptive to that conversation, maybe pausing there. And how do you feel about that?
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:Right? That's that's a meaningful, observation. Mhmm. Right? If you're in a family where it's money's not talked about and it's secretive and they won't engage. Well, what does that mean for me?
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:Right? And and maybe that's an interesting point of your own self discovery
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:You know, to think about at that point, because I I'm willing to bet that if you're in that situation, that's that's meaningful information.
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm. Yep.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Anything else about your process? Any words of wisdom or advice for inheritors, to think about before we start wrapping up our our conversation?
Melissa Hoyer [:I guess one thing that just came to mind hearing you ask that question is understand that as an inheritor of significant wealth, your path is likely gonna look very different than people around you.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:And it can feel isolating. And it's that's kinda goes with the territory in a lot of ways. So I just wanted to normalize that because it can feel so isolating to be an inheritor. So find find your people, your friends, your family, your adviser, or whoever you can create community with around that. Right.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. I think that's such great advice. And I I'm working with a client right now who, you know, hopefully, doesn't inherit for a while. Her her parents are alive and and healthy, but she has a tough time talking to them about money. And she hired a financial adviser to kinda figure some of these things out. So I I think it's such great advice to find your tribe, find your helpers
Melissa Hoyer [:Mhmm.
Jim Grace [:To use the mister Rogers, you know, term. You know, find people that can help you out. And, you're such a great example of that and, being willing to kinda share your expertise in this way, I think, is useful. So, again, we we appreciate it. A couple last questions before I let you go. Are there any books that come to mind, podcasts that you listen to, other people's work in this space, that might be adjacent to what you do that you might wanna spotlight for us?
Melissa Hoyer [:Yeah. Good good question. So one book that I love for I I have a lot of clients who have young children and want to teach their kids about money. And the book that I recommend is called financially fit kids.
Jim Grace [:Mhmm.
Melissa Hoyer [:Do you know it? Yeah. I believe Godfrey?
Jim Grace [:Yeah. I don't know if it's been recommended, but I'm aware of it.
Melissa Hoyer [:It's a great book because it goes through each developmental phase of a child's life. And then it's like you open this thing, and it has this chart of all the the primary financial skills and different age appropriate activities you can do with them. So that's a pretty good way to to do that.
Jim Grace [:I found too that reading books like that are enlightening for myself. Right? I learn things. You know, when you're thinking about teaching others, it's like, wow. What do I really know or think about this particular topic? And I feel like that was a takeaway when I read that one.
Melissa Hoyer [:Yeah. Yeah. So what other books would I recommend? I'm looking at my bookshelf right now.
Jim Grace [:I always put everybody on the spot, and they do the same thing to look, at their, at their bookshelf.
Melissa Hoyer [:I I feel like it's so dependent on Yeah. On what someone's going through personally.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. At the risk of putting you on the spot again, one of the questions I like to ask everyone that comes on the show this is a show about financial well-being, to use kind of a big high high term. When you think about self care, well-being, you mentioned that being a part of your process. Are there any go to, habits or routines or things that you get back to that kind of help you with that self care process or just feeling good in general, improving your own well-being overall?
Melissa Hoyer [:Yes. I'm sort of a well-being nut. And there's That
Jim Grace [:would apply with spirits.
Melissa Hoyer [:And in fact, while I was getting and this may be a book people are interested in if they're interested in in well-being, but when I was getting my coaching certification, I was a well-being coach in a program called Life XT, the lifelong habit of well-being. And in that program, you're they're they're taking modern neuroscience with ancient wisdom traditions. So the neuroscience showing how when we practice compassion, gratitude, meditation, etcetera, it actually changes our brain, and it changes our habits, and it changes our life. So I would say there's, like and I live in Boulder, Colorado, so there are well-being options all over the place.
Jim Grace [:The hound. Yeah.
Melissa Hoyer [:I would say go with something that resonates with you and that just that feels nourishing. You know? For me, it's like hot bath, meditation, journaling, and exercise, eating healthy food. I mean, I feel like those are my everyday basic things just to stay feeling good that I do.
Jim Grace [:That's great. That's awesome. I appreciate you sharing. Where should people check you out? Websites, social media accounts, where where do you want people to go to check out your work and the Wealth Conservancy?
Melissa Hoyer [:Well, we okay. The Wealth Conservancy's website is thewealthconservancy.com, and the Way into Wealth website is wayintowealth.com. And I now there's .orgs, so it's, you know, wayintowealth.com. And there's also I'm on LinkedIn, Melissa Hoyer. Cool. So those are the places to find me.
Jim Grace [:Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I think this is such an important topic, and I think the way that you and your firm go about helping people who find themselves in the situation of inheriting wealth is just invaluable, because I think it's it's again, like we talked about, it's a a tough situation when you lose somebody. Money in and of itself can be a difficult subject for a lot of folks to to navigate. And when you combine the two, it's just a ripe situation for for a lot of trouble. So we appreciate your time. We appreciate your expertise. We encourage everybody.
Jim Grace [:We'll link to the websites and the socials and everything in the show notes, so definitely reach out to Melissa. And, thank you again for your time. I really appreciate it.
Melissa Hoyer [:Well, thank you for having me, and thank you for bringing this topic up. I think it's really important, and I appreciate that.
Jim Grace [:Yeah. Likewise. I couldn't agree more. Thanks for listening, everybody. Don't forget to go to modernfinancialwellness.com where you'll see this episode posted with all the, links to Melissa and her company. We'll link to the books the book that she recommended. You could check out the resource page or the site and find all the other recommendations for our guests and a lot of other information. And, thanks for listening.
Jim Grace [:We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening to this episode. A quick note, although I do hope that the information that we talked about was helpful, in no way is anything discussed on the podcast to be taken as specific financial advice. Please consult your own advisers and do your own research when you're making important financial decisions.