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What to (Actually) Expect the First Year! w/ Sarah Zastrow and Kristen Kelderman (and a surprise guest!)
Episode 3 • 12th October 2023 • Barnyard Language • Caite Palmer and Arlene Hunter
00:00:00 02:37:49

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On this very special episode we're getting back together with two mamas we talked to last year to see how the first year of parenting has gone. We talked about delivery, feeding, raccoons, Home Depot, repetitive use injuries, and Longaberger baskets.

We also started this episode with a chat with "Dairy Carrie" Carrie Mess, recorded live at the World Dairy Expo in Madison, Wisconsin. Carrie was Caite's mentor for starting the podcast, a well known agvocate, dairy farmer, and mother of two.

This ended up being a long episode, but it's one of the best demonstrations of exactly why we started this show. Enjoy!


Thank you for joining us today on Barnyard Language. If you enjoy the show, we encourage you to support us by becoming a patron. Go to Patreon to make a small monthly donation to help cover the cost of making a show. Please rate and review the podcast and follow the show so you never miss an episode.

 You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok as BarnyardLanguage, and on Twitter we are BarnyardPod. If you'd like to connect with other farming families, you can join our private Barnyard Language Facebook group. We're always in search of future guests for the podcast. If you or someone you know would like to chat with us, get in touch.

 We are a proud member of the Positively Farming Media Podcast Network.




This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Transcripts

Caite:

Welcome to Barnyard Language.

Caite:

We are Katie and Arlene, an Iowa sheep farmer and an Ontario dairy

Caite:

farmer with six kids, two husbands, and a whole lot of chaos between us.

Caite:

So kick off your boots, reheat your coffee, and join us for some

Caite:

Barnyard Language, honest talk about running farms and raising

Arlene:

families.

Arlene:

In case your kids haven't already learned all the swears from being in the barn,

Arlene:

it might be a good idea to put on some headphones or turn down the volume.

Arlene:

While many of our guests are professionals, they

Arlene:

aren't your professionals.

Arlene:

If you need personalized advice,

Caite:

consult your And maybe we'll make this a two part episode

Caite:

since it's three hours long.

Caite:

Yeah, maybe.

Caite:

Or maybe not.

Caite:

Maybe we'll just invite people to get a beer and get some supper and have a chat.

Arlene:

Yeah, they don't have to listen to it all at once.

Caite:

Raising babies and electrocuting

Arlene:

raccoons.

Arlene:

Language, and for only the second time in history, Katie and I are actually

Arlene:

in the same place, and we have a guest.

Arlene:

It's the third time in history, Arlene.

Arlene:

Okay, well, second time recording.

Arlene:

In recording history, yeah.

Arlene:

Third time in the, in our life.

Arlene:

And we're back in the place where we kind of met for the first time.

Arlene:

So we're in Madison at Dairy Expo, and we have a guest with us today.

Arlene:

The famous Dairy Carrie, Carrie Mess, is joining

Carrie:

us today, too.

Carrie:

I'm not sure if it's famous or infamous.

Carrie:

Well,

Arlene:

yeah.

Arlene:

Potato patata.

Arlene:

Potato patata.

Carrie:

That's right.

Carrie:

I mean,

Arlene:

I'm cool with either.

Arlene:

Whatever.

Arlene:

So Carrie was one of our, our very first guests, I think, other than each other.

Arlene:

And was Katie's mentor when the podcast idea got started.

Arlene:

So, uh, it happened.

Arlene:

You mentored us right into existence.

Arlene:

I'm sorry.

Arlene:

Hopefully the people listening are happy about it.

Carrie:

No, I really love the community.

Carrie:

That you guys have built through this podcast, you're really filling

Carrie:

a niche that, um, was needed.

Carrie:

Um, on the dairy side, we have the Dairy Girl Network that kind of does

Carrie:

some of the same kind of thing of how we tie as women in the industry, um,

Carrie:

all the roles we're responsible for.

Carrie:

But you guys have taken, you know, some of that idea and made it not

Carrie:

just dairy specific and, and really Connected with a lot of cool people.

Carrie:

I love what you guys are talking about.

Carrie:

Good

Arlene:

job.

Arlene:

Yay!

Arlene:

Yeah, we're enjoying it too.

Arlene:

And there is something about parenting as a separate facet of what we do, right?

Arlene:

Because for so many, for so many of us, the farm becomes central

Arlene:

to our role, but then raising kids and farming at the same time is,

Arlene:

is not an easy job, as we all know.

Carrie:

I always think it's funny when people think that, like, moms

Carrie:

who are farmers are stay at home moms.

Carrie:

And some of them are.

Carrie:

And some of them are.

Carrie:

I am not.

Carrie:

Um, like, am I a work with kids mom?

Carrie:

Is that?

Arlene:

Yeah, working with your children.

Arlene:

Like, working two jobs at the same time.

Arlene:

It's perfect.

Carrie:

Everybody loves it.

Carrie:

Never goes wrong.

Carrie:

But that's a lot of the listeners.

Carrie:

You know, I said women earlier, but that's not true.

Carrie:

You have people of all genders.

Carrie:

Um, as part of the community, and that's why it's so important, because

Carrie:

we gotta talk about this shit.

Carrie:

Yeah.

Carrie:

So everybody knows it's

Arlene:

hard for all of us.

Arlene:

Yeah, that's right.

Arlene:

And when your kids are on the job site with you, or are in daycare,

Arlene:

or wherever they happen to be.

Arlene:

Right.

Arlene:

When the work is happening, and we know that the work doesn't end

Arlene:

even at the end of a daycare day.

Arlene:

Even if you've got your kids in care, then you're still juggling all the things.

Arlene:

All the things, all the time.

Arlene:

That a 24 hour day job can sometimes bring with it.

Caite:

I think two farm kids are different.

Caite:

Um, I think with that comes.

Caite:

I don't want to say an expectation of some of the behavior that we see from

Caite:

our kids, but there are things that are, um, snuck by my kids that might

Caite:

be more hammered down with town kids.

Caite:

But.

Caite:

You know, in case anyone missed Carrie's kid peeing.

Caite:

I mean, he got off the bus before he started peeing, I think.

Carrie:

So that was good.

Carrie:

Yeah, he got off the bus and made it like four steps off the side of

Carrie:

the road before he dropped her out.

Carrie:

And had an incredible arc.

Carrie:

That was really quite impressive.

Arlene:

Um,

Carrie:

but, I see.

Carrie:

We live on a quiet country road, but his bus pulled off and he started peeing.

Carrie:

Suddenly there was traffic, like all these cars coming by.

Carrie:

Plus the

Arlene:

whole side of the bus, I'm guessing.

Arlene:

Well, no, that bus

Carrie:

went by.

Carrie:

They were going the other way?

Carrie:

They went, but then the lakeside Lutheran bus came past.

Carrie:

The church school bus came past.

Carrie:

And they got the full view.

Carrie:

Um, yeah.

Carrie:

Yeah.

Carrie:

I mean, I'm glad he made it off the bus.

Carrie:

Clearly he had to go.

Carrie:

That's an accomplishment in itself.

Carrie:

But I haven't, maybe, done a very good job about, um, furthering,

Carrie:

like, the modesty piece.

Carrie:

So, Ben was born, and he has a birthmark that covers, like, half of his body.

Carrie:

So, when he was born, and we were figuring everything out, the one thing

Carrie:

I said was, like, okay, body positivity.

Carrie:

We're leaning in on that, but we've maybe done a little too good of a job.

Carrie:

Ben has no shame, at

Arlene:

all, about anything on his body.

Carrie:

And, um, doesn't, does not care.

Carrie:

Does not care, at all.

Arlene:

It'll come around eventually.

Arlene:

How old is he?

Arlene:

Five,

Carrie:

but I don't think it's coming.

Carrie:

I really don't.

Carrie:

You've got time.

Carrie:

That one.

Carrie:

Um, not, not, not

Arlene:

kid mooning, mooning people outside the, the, uh, the bus.

Sarah:

If we're

Kristen:

lucky only

Carrie:

that, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carrie:

So it'll be fine.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Can't wait for that call.

Arlene:

So given the fact that we are in Wisconsin means that I left the

Arlene:

farm again, which is a wild thing.

Arlene:

And.

Arlene:

And I know that a lot of people, especially in the ag forums,

Arlene:

talk about, you know, like never being able to leave the farm.

Arlene:

And I think that even the fact that we can leave and I have some both like Not

Arlene:

guilt personally, but guilt about the fact that we have the help to be able to do it.

Arlene:

So I just want to say that out loud, that I know that not everyone

Arlene:

gets the opportunity to get away.

Arlene:

But you know, like, if there are times when you can, you know,

Carrie:

that guilt for a second though?

Carrie:

Yeah.

Carrie:

It's not just guilt, it's also fear of being judged.

Carrie:

Yeah, that's true.

Carrie:

Oh, must be nice.

Carrie:

Must be nice.

Carrie:

Yeah, you could leave.

Carrie:

Must be nice.

Carrie:

And then I say the same thing when I see other people doing

Carrie:

things that I want to do.

Carrie:

Must be nice.

Arlene:

Yeah, or even within industries, right?

Arlene:

Like, oh, the crop farmers.

Arlene:

Yeah, they get to go.

Arlene:

What were they

Carrie:

doing this winter

Arlene:

when it was 20 below?

Arlene:

Yeah, in January when all their water bowls are frozen and they,

Arlene:

yeah, they get to go on vacation.

Arlene:

But yeah, I mean, sure.

Arlene:

Must be nice.

Arlene:

It is.

Sarah:

And it is nice.

Sarah:

But we should be happy for

Arlene:

people that they have that opportunity, right?

Arlene:

We're in a place right now where we have older kids and we have good

Arlene:

health and we know that we haven't always been in that place and not

Arlene:

everyone can afford it or not in a, in a physical location where there is,

Arlene:

you know, there isn't good employment, you know, like we, we are lucky that

Arlene:

we've got people that we can depend on.

Arlene:

And my father in law is still healthy enough to be able

Arlene:

to keep an eye on things.

Arlene:

Yeah, that's right.

Arlene:

Feed calves and look out for sick cows, you know, that kind of stuff.

Carrie:

Thank you.

Carrie:

Yeah, we have, you know, we farm with my in laws, but my mother in law's retired

Carrie:

after her farm accident, and my father in law's still out there, so, you know, he's

Carrie:

there, some days he's wrecking more things than, than fixing, but, yeah, it's a body

Carrie:

that, you know, we know will at least Yes.

Carrie:

And we have some really good help and we're only 30 minutes from the expo

Carrie:

grounds here so it's really easy for us to buzz in on this but for Pat

Carrie:

and I we've both realized that it's really important for our relationship

Carrie:

to take one night away, like.

Carrie:

Every six months, if we can, like twice a year, if we can get it, just one night

Arlene:

away from just the two of us.

Arlene:

It's been so important for our marriage.

Arlene:

Well, when one night, two days, like when you're with your kids and your

Arlene:

in laws and your everybody all the time, it feels like a long time.

Arlene:

If you can get away, we, yeah, sometimes, you know, Spring and fall we do try and

Arlene:

often it's like it looks like it's gonna rain for the next two days Do you want

Arlene:

to go somewhere and I mean obviously it's you know, like not ideal weather, but it

Arlene:

doesn't matter like you can Yeah, if you can get away for a little bit of time.

Arlene:

It doesn't mean a lot

Carrie:

One of the things I've we've noticed is like we have to leave leave

Carrie:

Because even though we don't live on the farm our farm in our house are separate

Carrie:

What we find if we're not at the farm doing stuff there and we're just at

Carrie:

home and like trying to relax at home we can't Because we see all the things

Carrie:

that we haven't had time to do at home, and it doesn't work, and we have to

Sarah:

be gone.

Sarah:

Yeah,

Arlene:

that removal from your workplace and your home is kind of critical

Arlene:

for actually being able to fully...

Arlene:

Let your guard

Carrie:

down.

Carrie:

And you know that 2k8 was working your day job from home too, like,

Arlene:

where's the line?

Arlene:

Yeah, the line exists.

Arlene:

The computer's right over there, and you can just walk

Arlene:

over and put in another hour.

Arlene:

Shut the door.

Arlene:

Yeah, my desk is in

Carrie:

my bedroom.

Carrie:

I can't, I can't lay in bed without seeing the computer on, and yeah.

Carrie:

I know,

Caite:

though, we went away for a couple nights a few weeks ago because

Caite:

Jim won his concert two weeks ago, and it was amazing just to be Must

Carrie:

be nice.

Arlene:

Must be nice.

Arlene:

I hope it was nice.

Arlene:

It was nice.

Arlene:

No, I'm telling you about all of that.

Arlene:

No,

Caite:

no.

Caite:

The concert, everything.

Caite:

It was amazing just to not have anything we should be doing.

Caite:

Like, the only thing that was expected of us was to eat.

Caite:

And show up for a concert and show up for a plane.

Caite:

Check.

Caite:

That was it.

Caite:

And it was so, like, it's really uncomfortable when you

Caite:

do leave because you're like, What am I supposed to be doing?

Caite:

You're doing, right.

Caite:

Where's my calendar?

Caite:

What's on my schedule?

Caite:

What's next?

Caite:

What's happening in ten minutes?

Caite:

And you're like, Nothing?

Caite:

Right.

Arlene:

Nothing.

Arlene:

Yeah, whatever I feel like doing.

Arlene:

Or, or I could do nothing.

Arlene:

Right.

Arlene:

What do

Caite:

you mean I could just take a nap?

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

And I can actually take a nap without anybody climbing on

Caite:

top of me and saying, Mommy!

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Open my granola bar.

Carrie:

Are your thumbs broken?

Carrie:

Yeah, clearly.

Carrie:

A lot of the times when we've been able to get away, like I was speaking and

Carrie:

so Pat was able to like come with me.

Carrie:

So I still didn't even fully have that, like, total disconnect where

Carrie:

I didn't have to do that, but it was still totally worth it.

Carrie:

Just to not, not be in our zip code.

Carrie:

I think any way you can hack it, get some time away from the farm, we have to.

Arlene:

Keep ourselves sane.

Arlene:

Yeah, and the getting away from the farm and the kids combo is extra stressful.

Arlene:

I mean, I know that.

Arlene:

You know when you've got little people if you're breastfeeding or you

Arlene:

know, like if they're not sleeping through the night It's not like you

Arlene:

can just be like, hey grandma, you like to be up 24 hours a day, right?

Arlene:

So I know that yeah, it's not always that easy But once you're in that place

Carrie:

to be able to do it And a lot of times in farm families too,

Carrie:

like that older generation isn't able

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Or they might be in the barn so that you can leave the barn part, right?

Arlene:

Right.

Carrie:

Or they're just, you know, the age where they're not,

Carrie:

they can't keep up with little

Caite:

kids.

Caite:

Yeah, that's right.

Caite:

It is nice, since our kids are getting a little older, that they can go over

Caite:

to Grandma and Grandpa's a little bit easier, because they don't have to be...

Caite:

Adults frequently do not think my children have to be picked up and carried nearly

Caite:

as often as my children still think they need to be picked up and carried.

Caite:

But they're a little more self sufficient than they were a few years ago.

Caite:

But, yeah, it's definitely, they're a lot.

Caite:

That's for sure.

Caite:

We

Carrie:

have a dinner we're going to tonight as part of Expo.

Carrie:

And so the kids are going to get off the bus at Grandma and

Carrie:

Grandpa's and go to bed there.

Carrie:

We'll pick them up.

Carrie:

I don't know.

Carrie:

Tonight, when we get home, or in the morning, um, but we were packing the stuff

Carrie:

up, like, we're gonna stay overnight, and like, we'd bother putting the

Carrie:

toothbrushes and toothpaste in there, because Grandma's not going to open

Caite:

the brush

Caite:

tonight.

Arlene:

Grandma's not gonna remember, and then if they get

Arlene:

taken out of the bag, then you're just not gonna have toothbrushes at

Carrie:

home tomorrow.

Carrie:

Exactly, so, you know, sometimes you just gotta give up.

Carrie:

Yeah, that's right.

Arlene:

And let it happen.

Arlene:

Let some things go.

Arlene:

Well, I think we are going to wrap up and go look at some more pretty cows.

Arlene:

Yes, and maybe do

Caite:

some, we've got some elite, elite cow areas to sneak into.

Caite:

So if you don't hear from us, we need bail money.

Caite:

We're in Madison.

Caite:

We got busted for sneaking into private areas.

Caite:

Super expensive cow areas.

Carrie:

Yeah, they're not private.

Carrie:

No, if you have anyone on drink

Arlene:

down there.

Arlene:

If you pretend you want to buy embryos.

Arlene:

Yeah,

Caite:

I could look real interested.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

So thank you very much, Carrie, for joining us again

Arlene:

and for the grilled cheese.

Arlene:

Yeah,

Carrie:

you guys have done a great job.

Carrie:

I'm really proud of what you've built.

Caite:

You guys don't even know what a big deal Carrie is.

Caite:

She got like fast passes for grilled cheese.

Caite:

I didn't even know that was a thing.

Caite:

It's really helpful when

Carrie:

your neighbor works for the company that

Arlene:

That's the lineup for the grilled cheese here is very impressive.

Arlene:

It is good.

Arlene:

We are going to ask you to go back and listen to episodes with Sarah Zastrow.

Arlene:

So she actually got to come on twice.

Arlene:

So she is maybe our most popular guest other than Katie and myself.

Arlene:

She's been here a couple of times and she is joining us from Michigan.

Arlene:

So there was an episode early on with her while she was pregnant with

Arlene:

her first baby and just announced.

Arlene:

And then a second one where we threw her a podcast.

Arlene:

baby shower.

Arlene:

So if you want all the parenting advice before you have a baby,

Arlene:

that's the episode to listen to.

Arlene:

And then we also have...

Arlene:

Arlene,

Caite:

I'm going to interrupt for our listeners because this is not a video

Caite:

medium, as Arlene keeps reminding me.

Caite:

Sarah is currently hiding in a laundry room closet from her baby.

Caite:

Um, I think there's a lot of dress shirts behind her and it's very quiet

Caite:

and she said it's cool and nice in there.

Arlene:

Yeah, yeah.

Arlene:

So the baby doesn't know that she's still in there.

Arlene:

Sarah.

Arlene:

Yeah, that's right.

Arlene:

And we're also talking to Kristen Kelderman, who announced her pregnancy

Arlene:

to us on her podcast episode early on in 2021, I believe, or maybe

Arlene:

winter of 21, 2021, 2022 is when we talked to both of these ladies.

Arlene:

And she was actually pregnant with twins.

Arlene:

So it's her first pregnancy, but she got double the money.

Arlene:

So she has Two new babies and Sarah has one.

Arlene:

And so this episode, we're actually talking to both of them about how life

Arlene:

in the first year with baby has gone.

Arlene:

And we have this interesting perspective of being able to go back and listen

Arlene:

to what they thought it was going to be like before they had their babies.

Arlene:

And then the reality of what it was actually like.

Arlene:

So I'm going to start with Sarah, with our usual first question.

Arlene:

Sarah, can you remind our listeners and us what you're growing?

Sarah:

Yes.

Sarah:

Okay.

Sarah:

First off, thank you for having me back for the third time.

Sarah:

I'm glad to be the three peat here.

Sarah:

Um, so I am growing a baby, a toddler, a one year old, which is insane.

Sarah:

Um, and then we grow corn and soybeans in Central Michigan and then we

Kristen:

have kind of what I consider

Sarah:

our hobby farm division as well.

Sarah:

So we've got some chickens and turkeys and ducks and produce, you know, garden

Sarah:

vegetables and that sort of thing.

Sarah:

So, um, we're having a lot of fun right now.

Sarah:

I'm picking strawberries, uh, every day, which has been, uh, really

Sarah:

interesting with a one year old on my hip, but, uh, yeah, we're, we're

Sarah:

having a lot of fun, so that's good.

Sarah:

Growing chaos is, um, the primary crop around here.

Arlene:

Yes, that's right.

Arlene:

And for the people, as Katie said, it's an audio medium.

Arlene:

Can you tell us what's on your shirt today?

Arlene:

Because you dressed on theme for us.

Sarah:

I did.

Sarah:

I was going to dress up and look nice for you guys, but I have a shirt

Sarah:

that said, good moms say bad words.

Sarah:

And I was like, eh, it's on brand.

Sarah:

So I'm wearing it.

Arlene:

That is perfect.

Arlene:

Kristen, can you remind us and our listeners what you're growing?

Kristen:

Hello everyone, yes, good morning.

Kristen:

Um, thanks again to Arlene and Katie for having me back again.

Kristen:

Um, I feel, uh, so blessed to be here and to join, uh, the, uh,

Kristen:

the most frequent podcaster here.

Kristen:

Um, and, uh, yeah, so my life right now, I am growing.

Kristen:

Uh, twin toddlers, which as I can attest to Sarah, the chaos is real and

Kristen:

it is rampant in our house right now.

Kristen:

Um, but in both a frustrating and an incredibly beautiful way, I'm

Kristen:

trying to see both sides of it.

Kristen:

Um, outside of being a mom, I am growing my career.

Kristen:

I have started a new position, uh, that I'm really excited about, um, working

Kristen:

in farm mental health here in Canada.

Kristen:

for a new national organization.

Kristen:

And, um, and that for me is just like really filling my cup these days, uh,

Kristen:

in kind of taking a step back from mom life and getting back to who I would

Kristen:

say, like, is just me, Kristen, myself, um, and taking myself back to, uh,

Kristen:

to pre kid life, which is coming with a little, you know, some challenges.

Kristen:

I'm now trying to balance and, and do mom life and career life at the same time.

Kristen:

Um, but in my, you know, quote unquote spare time, um, I am also

Kristen:

enjoying this summer getting back out into the garden and really.

Kristen:

getting my hands dirty and growing my vegetable garden, doing

Kristen:

some landscaping around here.

Kristen:

So quite literally growing some plants and, and growing some, you know, gardening

Kristen:

for me is kind of a form of therapy.

Kristen:

So growing my therapy, uh, through my garden as well.

Arlene:

It's nice to have you both back.

Arlene:

I can just, uh, picture the, the toys and, uh, debris that's probably around

Arlene:

your house at this stage of life.

Arlene:

I don't have little people in the house anymore, but I definitely remember.

Caite:

I've been doing a lot of cleaning out my Google Photos and coming across

Caite:

memories of the kids at different ages and found one the other day of the girl child.

Caite:

I'll probably use...

Caite:

14 months old she had dumped an entire box of Cheerios out

Caite:

on the floor my daughter And

Sarah:

I play this super fun game where she as she eats she throws half of

Sarah:

everything on the floor You know now that she's done with it right so I get her

Sarah:

out of her Uh, high chair and then we race to see if I can sweep it up faster

Sarah:

or if she can scarf it all up faster off of the floor because for some reason

Sarah:

food mixed with dog hair tastes so much better and she was full in the high chair

Sarah:

but now she's starving suddenly as she gets to the floor and I'm like, no, stop

Arlene:

eating stuff off the floor.

Sarah:

That's for sure.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Kristen:

Yeah.

Arlene:

It's so much better down there.

Sarah:

That's right.

Kristen:

Different flavor profile, I think,

Caite:

right?

Caite:

It tastes more like the land.

Caite:

If you eat it off the floor, it tastes more authentic.

Caite:

And it's higher in fiber once it's got dog hair in it.

Caite:

There you go.

Sarah:

Um, it was a

Sarah:

So I ended up with an emergency c section.

Sarah:

I was six days overdue and they said we're going to induce you on Thursday night.

Sarah:

So, Thursday morning I ended up having a c section, having an emergency c

Sarah:

section and I just, um, didn't really...

Sarah:

I didn't foresee that, you know, because I had everything planned and that was not in

Sarah:

my plan, you know, so, um, anyway, that, I ended up having a super long labor,

Sarah:

prodromal labor for like 11 days, which, um, they used to call that false labor.

Sarah:

But now they say, oh, it's not false.

Sarah:

It is labor.

Sarah:

It's just kind of very slow labor.

Sarah:

So, um, I was in prodromal labor for 11 days, which means I didn't

Sarah:

sleep very well for 11 days.

Sarah:

And so by the time labor came around, I was just absolutely exhausted.

Sarah:

So I was in labor for about 40 hours, like active labor for about 40 hours,

Sarah:

pushed for four and a half, and then I was like, We're done here, folks.

Sarah:

We are done.

Sarah:

Caught me open and get this shit over with.

Sarah:

Like, I have never been so exhausted in my life.

Sarah:

So, um, that was, uh, you know, a surprise.

Sarah:

I had, for a long time she was breached, so I had sort of emotionally

Sarah:

prepared for what would happen if I had to have a c section.

Sarah:

But then she flipped, so I was like, Okay, check that off the list.

Sarah:

We're, we're golden.

Sarah:

We're in the home stretch.

Sarah:

stretch here, boys.

Sarah:

And, um, we were not, in fact, in the home stretch.

Sarah:

So, uh, anyway, that was, um, like, not as difficult of a recovery as

Sarah:

I had expected, uh, physically.

Sarah:

I was more sore from pushing for so long, and I, like, my eyes were

Sarah:

bloodshot, my cheek, like, the hollows of my cheeks were bruised.

Sarah:

It was really...

Sarah:

tough on my body.

Sarah:

Um, but that was more from the pushing than the actual C section.

Sarah:

My C section was great, really easy.

Sarah:

The C section recovery was way easier than 11 days of labor, you know.

Sarah:

So, um, anyway, ended up, um, you know, doing fine with recovery

Sarah:

physically, um, but emotionally, uh, was really just rocked.

Sarah:

So, I, um, I had always thought of like birth trauma as like, oh, people, you

Sarah:

know, people can like die on the table and like people can, you know, hemorrhage

Sarah:

and lose tons of blood and all these like really terrible things that could happen.

Sarah:

Um, but I never thought of like, Oh, your, your body will be emotionally

Sarah:

wrecked for a good solid week and a half.

Sarah:

Um, good luck, you know, so anyway, I kind of, um, that was a little

Sarah:

bit tough for me and then I just had some wild, wild hormones and I, it

Sarah:

ended kind of in the two week period.

Sarah:

So they're like, Oh no, it's, you know, it's fine.

Sarah:

It ended, but just some really scary thoughts and really scary,

Sarah:

like things going through my head.

Sarah:

And, um, my husband was in the field, so we ended up having tons and tons

Sarah:

of family over, which was really great, but also I definitely like.

Sarah:

Put on a front when people were here, and then as soon as people left, it

Sarah:

was a completely different story.

Sarah:

So, I think that it was good that I was sort of prepared for that.

Sarah:

Um, and I had watched some videos and things like that about, like, just

Sarah:

postpartum hormones, and like, you will have some really scary thoughts, and you

Sarah:

will think about some really horrible things, and, you know, like, I just

Sarah:

remember, we're gonna really bring down the mood here, but it's all about reality.

Sarah:

So, I'm gonna say it anyway.

Sarah:

Somebody had told me that, um, like, they...

Sarah:

So they felt like they were like grieving their old life.

Sarah:

They felt like they, um, they kind of felt like they were babysitting

Sarah:

and like, when's this kid's parents going to come pick, pick it up?

Sarah:

Cause I'm tired of this, you know?

Sarah:

And I definitely felt that.

Sarah:

And I remember thinking like, If something happened, I don't even think I would

Sarah:

care, you know, and I was so tired and so exhausted and I like fell asleep

Sarah:

with the baby kind of like in the crook of my arm on the couch and I was kind

Sarah:

of breastfeeding her and like she had fallen asleep and I had fallen asleep

Sarah:

and my husband came out and he was like, Sarah, like, wake up, you know, like, the

Sarah:

baby's not really in a great position, like, this is really scaring me, and I

Sarah:

remember thinking, like, I don't even care if she dies, like, I would grieve

Sarah:

that loss, and I would, um, I would be over it, and I would, and then, and then

Sarah:

I had that thought, and I was like, oh, my, something is wrong, like, this is

Sarah:

really not, not good, um, you know, and so, it ended up, like, I ended up doing

Sarah:

a ton of journaling through that time, and kind of journaling everything that

Sarah:

had happened with my birth, and these crazy thoughts I was having, and, um,

Sarah:

And, and it ended up kind of fading and then after that it was kind of fine.

Sarah:

So, um, that ended like in two weeks after my birth.

Sarah:

Um, and then things got a little bit easier and she

Sarah:

was sleeping better at night.

Sarah:

So, um, yeah, but that first, that first couple of weeks was extremely challenging.

Sarah:

Um, and just really scary.

Sarah:

To, like, think about what your body's been through, what your hormones are

Sarah:

putting you through, that you're getting to know this new alien that's suddenly,

Sarah:

apparently, your responsibility, even though it doesn't feel like that.

Sarah:

Um, and I'm so glad, Katie, you had said in our first, or the last,

Sarah:

uh, podcast interview, like, you're not, you might not feel this way.

Sarah:

Emotional attachment right away, and I did not at all.

Sarah:

And that in itself scared me also, because I was like, what

Sarah:

is wrong with me and this thing?

Sarah:

And there was no bonding.

Sarah:

And we had talked, I wanted this like golden hour so bad.

Sarah:

And I was, Drugged that entire golden hour and I don't know what the baby was

Sarah:

doing and I don't know what I was doing and I Woke up and she was breastfeeding

Sarah:

and they were like, how does it feel?

Sarah:

And I was like, I can't feel anything Like I have no idea, you know, so it

Sarah:

was a complete Uh, completely different from what I had envisioned, and I

Sarah:

think just getting, um, acquainted with, like, the reality of it took,

Sarah:

took me a couple of weeks, you know.

Sarah:

And then after that, it was a lot better, and I started to get out of the house

Sarah:

a little bit, and started to exercise again, and I was doing journaling,

Sarah:

and, um, it got better quickly, but that first, those first couple of weeks

Sarah:

was whiplash, you know, really, really A lot different than I had expected.

Caite:

I know, Sarah, I was thinking a lot about the Baby Blues this last week as we

Caite:

were preparing for the show and thinking about, that I feel like we tell women that

Caite:

They'll experience the baby blues, but it'll be hard because you'll love your

Caite:

baby so much and everything will just be so beautiful that it'll you Yeah, I,

Sarah:

first of all blues is very understated.

Sarah:

That was not the blues.

Sarah:

That was like, happens to somebody depth, I dunno, anyone

Caite:

who's

Sarah:

experienced it, something I don't, it, it felt like an Biss, that's for sure.

Kristen:

Um,

Sarah:

and I don't, in theory I loved my baby, but it was not an

Sarah:

overwhelming sense of love and adoration.

Sarah:

At first, you know?

Sarah:

And so I think that kind of caught me off guard as well.

Sarah:

Like I said, I'm really glad that you and a few other people had

Sarah:

warned me of that because then I knew, like, oh, this could happen.

Sarah:

This might be, you know, what happens.

Sarah:

And so at least then I knew, like, I'm not completely alone, you know what I mean?

Sarah:

And so I think that I talk about this not to, like, scare new moms

Sarah:

or anything, but, like, that might happen to you, too, and that's okay,

Sarah:

and it will pass, and you will grow to love your baby, and now I love her

Sarah:

more than anything else in the world.

Sarah:

Um, but it...

Sarah:

It was just so unexpected.

Sarah:

And no, there was no newborn bliss, no overwhelming sense of

Sarah:

this is the best day of my life, nothing remotely close to that.

Caite:

I feel like for me, that first couple of weeks was a lot like, like if

Caite:

you see a mother raccoon with her cubs, like if you tried to touch one of her

Caite:

babies, she'd rip your fucking face off.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

But I wouldn't say that she's like, Oh, my precious angel babies, you know?

Caite:

Yes, exactly.

Caite:

There's not that emotional connection to them, where she's

Caite:

like, They're the light of my life.

Caite:

You know, she's just like, I'll fucking kill you if you touch them.

Caite:

I don't like them that much, but I will kill you if you touch them.

Caite:

Like, it's so weird that you guys are all muted and I can see you laughing, but

Caite:

it's just like, dead silence on my end.

Caite:

Okay, cool.

Caite:

Anyway, yes, we're all nodding

Arlene:

along.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

Yeah, it's it's a weird

Arlene:

feeling.

Arlene:

Yeah, it's hard to do a four way interview.

Arlene:

We're trying not to overlap each other.

Arlene:

But yeah, thank you Sarah for being so honest about that time

Arlene:

because like you said, I mean some people do have that initial bond.

Arlene:

They maybe have the labor they expected but so many of us don't and even if

Arlene:

it's what In theory, what you expect, the experience is still something

Arlene:

you cannot really prepare for there.

Arlene:

There's nothing, there's nothing anybody can really say to tell you

Arlene:

what it's gonna be like for you, because it's unique for every person.

Arlene:

It's unique for every baby.

Arlene:

So yeah, every time it's gonna be completely different and

Arlene:

we really can't anticipate it.

Arlene:

And it's good to be honest about how it is for different people so that all of those

Arlene:

scenarios are at least things that you're.

Arlene:

prepared for or or know that could happen.

Arlene:

So, Kristen, do you want to talk a little bit about your labor and first few

Arlene:

weeks, your initial days of motherhood?

Arlene:

Which probably seems like a long way away now, but it was only a year

Kristen:

ago.

Kristen:

Oh, it does.

Kristen:

You know, it feels like they say like parents, like time is like a

Kristen:

vortex when you become a parent.

Kristen:

It's both the longest, most arduous thing and also just like in a

Kristen:

blink of an eye like passes by you.

Kristen:

I completely feel that sentiment so real in my life today.

Kristen:

Um, and yeah, just to start off, I just want to echo, uh, Sarah.

Kristen:

I feel so many of those same feelings.

Kristen:

Um, you know, motherhood.

Kristen:

In those early days for me, um, was, felt so isolating a lot too, um, because you

Kristen:

are just so encapsulated, um, and probably biologically we're forced to just kind of

Kristen:

put those blinders on and focus on keeping these little humans alive, um, but yeah,

Kristen:

I, I echo so many of, of what you shared.

Kristen:

For me, having, uh, going into having twins, I was very well prepared

Kristen:

with my birthing team and my OB that there was a high likelihood

Kristen:

that I would have a c section.

Kristen:

And so, I was very, I kind of went into it very open minded.

Kristen:

I said, you know what, I, I had, you know, kind of a rough idea, a rough plan,

Kristen:

but also, trying my best to just kind of go with the flow at the same time,

Kristen:

uh, which for a type A personality, um, was a little bit difficult for me.

Kristen:

Um, we, uh, we also knew that there was a really real, um, uh, risk of

Kristen:

that the twins would come early too.

Kristen:

So twins generally, um, are, are, can, can come quite early on.

Kristen:

So, leading up to, my due date was supposed to be the beginning of June,

Kristen:

Um, but already, I would say like, late April, May, I was already starting to kind

Kristen:

of be like, Okay, when's the day coming?

Kristen:

When's the day coming?

Kristen:

When's the day coming?

Kristen:

Just kind of like, um, kind of starting to feel some of that anxiety.

Kristen:

And, um, cause I was really uncomfortable.

Kristen:

Like, for me, pregnancy was not a cakewalk.

Kristen:

I don't think that I was truly ready for all of the aches and the pains

Kristen:

and everything that came with that.

Kristen:

Um, and I would consider myself a rather, like, fit person, active person.

Kristen:

I tried to stay, um, you know, throughout my pregnancy moving around and stuff

Kristen:

like that, but I certainly was not what I expected I would be doing.

Kristen:

Um, I was very much less active than I wanted to be, but that month, um,

Kristen:

ahead of time, I was really starting to, uh, anticipate, um, you know, just

Kristen:

wanting it to be over with, honestly, and not the fact that I wanted to

Kristen:

meet my babies that I was so excited.

Kristen:

I was like, I just want this to be done with.

Kristen:

Um, so for us, I went into, uh, one of my OB appointments, and with the twins,

Kristen:

um, they monitor the differences in the weights between the two of them.

Kristen:

Um, and it became pretty apparent pretty quickly that, uh, we had

Kristen:

gone over the allotted discrepancy.

Kristen:

So one baby, um, appeared to be much bigger than the other and so there's

Kristen:

a risk there and, um, the way that my OB explained it was that it's better

Kristen:

for babies to be out of mom's womb at this point and survive, um, in the NICU

Kristen:

than to stay with you and risk that.

Kristen:

So I was induced, um, at 36 weeks, so about a month early, um, and quite

Kristen:

honestly, The worst part of my whole labor was the induction part was that

Kristen:

night before so I went into the hospital Um to be induced and then they sent me

Kristen:

home For that night and said come back in around between six and seven the

Kristen:

next morning and so that was the worst sleep I think of my entire life that

Kristen:

i've ever had and Slept on the couch had a heating pad couldn't get comfortable

Kristen:

turn the tv on like It was just hours of just feeling like really kind of

Kristen:

uncomfortable and crampy and whatnot.

Kristen:

Uh, we went into the um, into the hospital the next day and quite honestly, um,

Kristen:

I was a textbook, um, birthing story.

Kristen:

Um, I had Very little, um, very little pre labor.

Kristen:

I did have an epidural, so once that kind of kicked in, I was like, smooth sailing.

Kristen:

It's like, okay, I can feel this, I'm feeling good.

Kristen:

Um, and almost, you know, I, I am very fortunate.

Kristen:

I know that there are so many stories and birth traumas that are out there.

Kristen:

Um, and I was, I was, Fully expecting worst case scenario.

Kristen:

That's kind of what I went in with and um, the twins they Arrived very well.

Kristen:

We delivered in the or and um, it was almost kind of like This weird calmness

Kristen:

because again, they prepared me that like, you know Baby one comes and if

Kristen:

baby two doesn't come or there's some complications like it can get hectic

Kristen:

and crazy Really fast and there's lots of people and there's lots of stuff.

Kristen:

So I was very much Psychologically and emotionally prepared

Kristen:

for that and going into it.

Kristen:

I was like, okay like, you know, um Ready to experience that.

Kristen:

And then it was just this like weird calmness and I just remember sitting

Kristen:

there with my husband and the team there and we were just laughing.

Kristen:

Like we were literally laughing in the, like baby one had come.

Kristen:

And so, uh, my daughter, Eleanor, she was born first and, um, I was

Kristen:

expecting like, okay, baby two, like, you know, pretty quickly after that.

Kristen:

And it was 45 minutes between the two of them being born and it was, again,

Kristen:

kind of this, like, weird, calm, chatty, like, um, the doctor was making some

Kristen:

jokes and the, um, the anesthetist had come in to check on us and it was

Kristen:

just this, yeah, this kind of, um, almost, like, out of body experience.

Kristen:

And, uh, thankfully my son was then born, uh, Knox, uh, 45 minutes later.

Kristen:

And, um, because they were preemie babies, um, I got to hold both of them for a

Kristen:

very short time period, uh, and then they were both brought into the NICU.

Kristen:

Um, afterwards, my recovery was pretty dicey for a little bit there, um,

Kristen:

I went through some pretty, like, kind of almost like shock symptoms,

Kristen:

I would say, um, in terms of, like, Just like I was like vomiting.

Kristen:

I was like Really hot and cold like kind of hypertensive like just this really

Kristen:

weird feeling and that was something that really quite shocked me because

Kristen:

I did Not expect like afterwards.

Kristen:

I'm like, okay now I go to like my room and I just kind of relax and you know

Kristen:

Wait for them to bring the babies to me And I have no sense of time in terms

Kristen:

of what happened there at the hospital.

Kristen:

Um, but eventually I was brought to go and see my babies and going

Kristen:

into the NICU, that was something that I was not prepared for either.

Kristen:

Um, again, I had, I had held both of my babies, but then.

Kristen:

Going in there, being wheeled in on a wheelchair, um, in kind of,

Kristen:

like Sarah said, this kind of like weird, fuzzy, drugged up state.

Kristen:

And seeing these two tiny, little, like, shriveled potatoes sitting in these,

Kristen:

like, incubation boxes with all of these, you know, lights and beeping and whatnot

Kristen:

going on, it was a little surreal.

Kristen:

And I was like, Those are my babies and similar kind of similar feeling like

Kristen:

that connection was that bonding like, you know, from that point until, you

Kristen:

know, bringing them home and all of that.

Kristen:

It just felt very bizarre to me, um, that, okay, this is my reality.

Kristen:

Now this is what life is like.

Kristen:

And, um, we were very fortunate that, um, our NICU stay, we were there for three

Kristen:

days and then got to bring them home.

Kristen:

Um, which quite honestly, I didn't want to bring them home.

Kristen:

I was like, you're safe here.

Kristen:

I know you're good.

Kristen:

I have all of these nurses helping and, you know, feeding and changing and.

Kristen:

And, you know, all the censors and stuff are telling me that you're, you're good.

Kristen:

Um, when they, when they told us, like, okay, you can go home now.

Kristen:

It was almost like this really intense, like, anxiety, like, holy shit.

Kristen:

I don't think I want to do this.

Kristen:

And, um, but hey, you just kind of have to, have to, they kick you out, right?

Kristen:

You, um, you're not allowed an infinite stay.

Kristen:

And so we got home and I was fortunate.

Kristen:

My husband.

Kristen:

Were

Arlene:

you in there the whole time too, Kristen?

Arlene:

No.

Arlene:

Did you stay in or did you get

Sarah:

discharged and then were coming

Kristen:

back in?

Kristen:

The babies discharged.

Kristen:

Yeah.

Kristen:

Yeah, so I was discharged.

Kristen:

Um, and so that first, the first night I stayed in the hospital.

Kristen:

The second night we got to come home and then go back in.

Kristen:

And then the third night we stayed and like did our test run with the babies.

Kristen:

Um, Where we had to get up and feed them, uh, throughout the

Kristen:

night and they were, like, out of their little, um, incubation boxes.

Kristen:

And, uh, and then the next day, yeah, it was, uh, it was real life.

Kristen:

So, that, uh, Good luck.

Kristen:

Exactly, exactly.

Kristen:

I, I was very fortunate.

Kristen:

Our medical team was incredible and amazing and I just wanted

Kristen:

to, like, package them up and bring them home with me.

Kristen:

Um, the, uh, The recovery period for me, I was pretty thankful that, um, it

Kristen:

was fairly, I think, standard textbook.

Kristen:

Yeah, it was, you know, there were times when I didn't feel great and

Kristen:

whatnot, but, um, myself, it was more the emotional, psychological

Kristen:

side of like, okay, I'm a mom now.

Kristen:

And like, still reminding myself that, hey, these are, these are my babies.

Kristen:

And, and similar to Sarah, like, that connection that, um, That

Kristen:

maternal ness, I didn't feel kick in.

Kristen:

And it kind of started to yeah, kind of sit in my head and be like, I

Kristen:

don't, I don't know if I like this.

Kristen:

I don't, I don't know if I wanna do this.

Kristen:

Can I, can I go back ? Can I, can I return?

Kristen:

Like I don't, I'm not, I'm not really, uh, you know, in it all.

Kristen:

And it was a really.

Kristen:

It was a really difficult summer for me.

Kristen:

Um, so the twins were born in may and throughout that whole summer like it

Kristen:

was really um that grief of my previous life, I didn't anticipate that coming

Kristen:

so Like, becoming so difficult for me.

Kristen:

Um, because I thought, and you know, the advice and what people told me

Kristen:

beforehand was like, Oh yeah, like, you just fit baby into your life.

Kristen:

So you can go out and you can do all these things and you can, you know, you

Kristen:

can garden and you can go out with your friends and you can just, you know, cart

Kristen:

baby along with you wherever you go.

Kristen:

Go to the grocery store.

Kristen:

I was like, yeah, friggin right.

Kristen:

I'm not taking two newborn twins to the grocery store.

Kristen:

Like, as simple as a task as that may have seemed pre baby.

Kristen:

It was monumentous, um, afterwards, and to the fact where it like, it caused me

Kristen:

so much anxiety, and the, I just, I just wanted so desperately to be able to do

Kristen:

some of those things again, um, that it was really difficult for me, um, that

Kristen:

summer, especially because summer, you know, is such a difficult time for me.

Kristen:

Um, yeah.

Kristen:

is the time that I live for.

Kristen:

I, I just, I love it so much and I want to be outside.

Kristen:

And even just, there were days when the only outside time I got was, you

Kristen:

know, standing on our front porch.

Kristen:

And like, that was just, it was so hard to, to kind of feel like myself again.

Kristen:

Um, and I remember I was very fortunate to have the support of our family come, um,

Kristen:

and help look after the twins and my mom was, uh, uh, still to this day comes once

Kristen:

a week to, uh, to help out with the twins and, um, those were the days when I would

Kristen:

just kind of like pile up everything.

Kristen:

Okay, I want to do this, this, this, you know, run errands, do all of that stuff.

Kristen:

And there was one, um, one day that I was like, okay, I'm going to go to the grocery

Kristen:

store and like, you know, Spend some time there and do all that I need and I was

Kristen:

driving home And by our place there is a golf course and um, not that I'm a big

Kristen:

golfer or anything Um, but it's you know, nice to do every once in a while hit some

Kristen:

balls and uh and drink some beers but we I was driving by and I just saw these people

Kristen:

out on the course and like the sense of just like That is so far away from

Kristen:

my reality right now And that all those people out there are enjoying their time.

Kristen:

They're in the sunshine.

Kristen:

They're having fun.

Kristen:

They're with their friends They're socializing like I just felt

Kristen:

such a pit in my stomach that I am stuck being a mom right now.

Kristen:

Um, and that I really had a hard time coming around to that.

Kristen:

So it was, yeah, the

Arlene:

idea that someone would have like two or three hours of

Arlene:

spare time to do a hobby like that in, in that stage of life, right?

Arlene:

Like just seems so, yeah.

Arlene:

Like you said, so far from removed from your reality.

Arlene:

Like, like how do you just golf?

Arlene:

Like, how do you How would you even like the logistics of that?

Arlene:

Like, yeah, like if going to the grocery store feels like a vacation,

Arlene:

something like playing golf is just like, yeah, completely out

Arlene:

of what you can even think about.

Kristen:

Absolutely.

Kristen:

Absolutely.

Kristen:

And feeling like I felt like.

Kristen:

Like, I've never been a jealous person, but I could feel that kind of like

Kristen:

negative jealousy coming at me like, Oh, how dare you go to the golf course?

Kristen:

Like, I, like, I want to go and do that.

Kristen:

And like, that was just, yeah, just really a feeling and an emotion

Kristen:

that I'd never experienced before and something that I really hadn't

Kristen:

anticipated to come along in that, that motherhood journey that's supposed to

Kristen:

be beautiful and amazing and bonding.

Kristen:

Um, which is, as we all know, total bullshit.

Caite:

I feel like something...

Caite:

It's

Arlene:

so hard to think about.

Arlene:

Sorry, go.

Caite:

Something that gave me the jealousy so bad, and I can only imagine with twins

Caite:

because it's twice as much, is how much I took for granted things like going to

Caite:

the library and using two hands to pick out books, or not having to wrestle a

Caite:

stroller out of the back of the car, or God forbid when they get too big for

Caite:

the bucket seat, and then you have to take the kid out of the car seat to take

Caite:

them somewhere, and I mean you've got...

Caite:

You guys are both nodding because you know exactly what I'm talking about.

Caite:

You see people just waltzing into Walmart like it's nothing and just

Caite:

like, looking at their shopping list without their baby actually eating it,

Caite:

which has literally happened to me.

Caite:

My child ate an entire sheet of paper one time while we were grocery shopping.

Caite:

You know, and just that irrational rage that people could just be out with

Caite:

their Having slept, having showered, you know, having socks that match,

Caite:

whatever, just out in public using both hands and nobody screaming at them.

Caite:

And nobody judging them for whether their kid has socks.

Caite:

Wow.

Caite:

Well, I'm going to go back to therapy because

Caite:

this

Arlene:

is obviously just opening a whole can of worms.

Arlene:

Yikes.

Arlene:

I think we don't talk enough about and I don't know.

Arlene:

Yeah, I just was going to say I don't know that we talk enough about and yet

Arlene:

I at times don't know how to talk about what you were just saying, Kristen, about

Arlene:

the, the grief of life you had before.

Arlene:

Because sometimes, now when I go to a baby shower, like, I want to warn the person,

Arlene:

but I don't want to be that person either, to be like, soak it up, because you're

Arlene:

never going to be this person again.

Arlene:

But how do you tell someone?

Arlene:

That you're going to turn into a new person and that

Arlene:

everything is going to change.

Arlene:

You're not, like you said, you're not just having a baby and maybe some babies

Arlene:

fit into your life or that's what we tell ourselves, but I didn't have those babies.

Arlene:

And even the babies that do fit into your life, you're still changing everything

Arlene:

to, to make it look like they fit, right?

Arlene:

And you're, yeah, you're not the same person anymore.

Arlene:

And, and it's.

Arlene:

It's okay to feel sad that you're not that person anymore.

Arlene:

It's okay to grieve that loss and to realize that you aren't going back.

Arlene:

It's kind of the same, you know, like you move on from high school or

Arlene:

you move to a new place and you, you grieve the loss of those other things.

Arlene:

But it's, it's hard to talk about when it's your kid because then,

Arlene:

you know, like we always talk about, Katie, then it sounds like you're

Arlene:

saying, I don't love my child because I'm sad that something has changed.

Arlene:

But those two things can be true at the same time.

Caite:

Well, and I, I think, too, for myself, I've changed so massively

Caite:

and in so many amazingly good ways.

Caite:

I am so much happier with the person I am now.

Caite:

But the growing pains of getting here, and that it doesn't, like the baby

Caite:

blues or whatever, it's not like it takes three hours and then everything

Caite:

is great, you know, like, it takes time.

Caite:

Right,

Arlene:

it was hard for a few minutes, but now I'm all good.

Caite:

Yeah.

Caite:

And no matter how good the end result is, it was still painful to get here, and

Caite:

that's, you know, and I, I feel like for me too, it was kind of like when you get

Caite:

married and you stop, you know, like you spend however many of your years looking

Caite:

for potential partners or, you know, Oh, that boy's cute, whatever, you know,

Caite:

because you're like 13 and then, and then you get married and suddenly you're never

Caite:

supposed to look at another human again.

Caite:

And it's like, even if you don't want another person.

Caite:

You've been doing it for so long, and I feel like having a baby is

Caite:

a lot the looking was kind of fun.

Caite:

Yeah, you're supposed to just drop everything and be

Caite:

like, I am only a mom now.

Caite:

That is it.

Caite:

And if you can't just, like, subsume your entire existence into six

Caite:

or, like, I guess twelve pounds of twins, then it's because you're

Caite:

a bad person who is never happy.

Caite:

You know, it's because you're ungrateful.

Caite:

And not because you've spent 30 years being a person, just by yourself.

Arlene:

Yeah, I

Sarah:

really do need to go into therapy.

Sarah:

I

Kristen:

completely can appreciate those growing pains, Katie, that you mentioned.

Kristen:

Um, identity, I think, is something that we don't talk about in motherhood.

Kristen:

And, um, And in life in general, like who we are and what we were

Kristen:

just so busy constantly just kind of trying to get to the next thing,

Kristen:

trying to get to the next thing.

Kristen:

That we don't take a step back and say, well, how am I feeling

Kristen:

and how am I doing and, and what is this doing to me right now?

Kristen:

To pause and to say, yeah, maybe I do need to go back to therapy because this was,

Kristen:

Not the experience that I thought it was going to be and that it has impacted You

Kristen:

know me as a human being so drastically And it I guess it doesn't even need to

Kristen:

be drastically either like everybody has their own struggles within um within that

Kristen:

and how they cope with that and identity for me has just been such a a theme

Kristen:

throughout my life, I guess, um, that this whole motherhood, like, I almost resisted

Kristen:

it for a lot and Just kind of like not wanting to admit it that like, yeah, I'm

Kristen:

a mom now But also still wanting to crave that community too because I felt so

Kristen:

isolated And not that the people around me or you know, my family and my friends,

Kristen:

you know They were all so very supportive and wanting to you know, see you thrive

Kristen:

and to help out but Not knowing how to ask for what I needed in that time, too.

Kristen:

Um, because I was just in such a haze and in such a, a sleep deprived state, and,

Kristen:

and hormones, and that that feeling of just kind of feeling out of control, but

Kristen:

still having to function, um, to keep, you know, your, your family going and

Kristen:

these, you know, you're, you're self fed and all of those like essential things.

Kristen:

Um, And the smallest little thing can seem so monumentous to

Kristen:

do, like taking the trash out.

Kristen:

Like, I can remember just, you know, we live in a suburban neighborhood, so our

Kristen:

driveway is like maybe 30 feet long.

Kristen:

But it was like, oh my god, I have to get the garbage out today.

Kristen:

Like, how am I going to do that?

Kristen:

And just feeling so...

Kristen:

Overwhelmed in a sense, and, and not, yeah, not really recognizing

Kristen:

that it's not about the garbage.

Kristen:

It's about everything that's happening in my life right now.

Kristen:

Um, and, and really understanding that what we.

Kristen:

How, how to communicate in those instances, um, you're almost

Kristen:

relearning it again, right?

Kristen:

Because now you're doing it, um, as a, as a mom, um, with all of these

Kristen:

hormones coursing through your body and also, yeah, this identity shift

Kristen:

and you're in a very fragile state because sleep deprivation is no joke,

Kristen:

like that can do some really wonky, fucked up things to your brain that you.

Sarah:

I thought I would be, this sounds ridiculous, I

Sarah:

thought I would be better at.

Sarah:

Delegating things that needed to be done to other people and

Sarah:

communicating what I needed.

Sarah:

And it used to not be difficult for me to delegate, to be like,

Sarah:

Hey, can you do these dishes?

Sarah:

Can you, um, do this?

Sarah:

Can you pick me up some things from the grocery store?

Sarah:

No, I didn't think twice about it.

Sarah:

And then all of a sudden it feels like now that I, Can't do things for myself

Sarah:

instead of it being a quick favor.

Sarah:

It's a burden, you know?

Sarah:

And so I didn't expect that things that used to be easy would be so difficult.

Sarah:

Not like including things like getting the dishes done and the laundry done

Sarah:

and taking out the trash and those sorts of things, but also like.

Sarah:

Setting boundaries and communicating and saying, Hey, I really need whatever, three

Sarah:

hours to go golfing or whatever it is.

Sarah:

I, I used to be good at those things and suddenly I'm not.

Sarah:

And I'm like, afraid to even utter those words, you know?

Sarah:

And so, I don't know if that's hormones or the way that motherhood changes the

Sarah:

weight of things or what that is, but I did not foresee Me having an issue with

Sarah:

those things like I was listening back to our old episode and I had talked about how

Sarah:

I was like already planning on delegating making this person do this and this person

Sarah:

do this and I didn't do any of that like I

Arlene:

Had them

Sarah:

hold the baby and I did all that shit, you know, like it's so funny

Sarah:

to me how Like like just how that was and I think now it's getting better

Sarah:

and I'm finding my voice a little bit Again, but it's just so funny,

Sarah:

like, I did not foresee that happening

Arlene:

at all.

Arlene:

I wonder if some of that is that feeling of, and I think that maybe we're kind of

Arlene:

similar in this way, that the feeling of asking for help from someone when you have

Arlene:

no idea when you'd be able to reciprocate.

Arlene:

It's easier for me to delegate and to ask someone to do something for

Arlene:

me when I think, well, when they have a problem, I can drop off muffins or

Arlene:

I can pick up their kid or whatever.

Arlene:

But when you're in that mode of just surviving yourself, and you're like,

Arlene:

I'm asking somebody to do something for me, and there's no way I could, if they

Arlene:

asked me the same question, I'd have to say no, because I've got nothing left.

Arlene:

Like, I'm completely depleted.

Arlene:

So I wonder if that's a little bit of those, the feeling of

Arlene:

the, the early stages when.

Arlene:

you've just got nothing to give back.

Arlene:

So then you, then you do feel like you're a burden because you're

Arlene:

like, well, I, I can't contribute.

Arlene:

I can't, can't do

Sarah:

it.

Sarah:

I think that might be part of it.

Sarah:

Yeah, because there, there's no reciprocation for those

Sarah:

first several months.

Sarah:

And even now, like, it's kind of shitty reciprocation, and it's

Sarah:

probably going to be half assed.

Sarah:

So sorry about it, you know, but I think that that's a really good point because,

Sarah:

um, Yeah, I, I don't, I don't know.

Sarah:

I think that's a really good point.

Arlene:

One thing I didn't include in our list of, sorry, Katie, I just

Arlene:

wanted to talk about something else.

Arlene:

I was wondering, we hadn't, haven't, I didn't put it in our list of questions,

Arlene:

but one thing that, that ends up taking up a lot of our time in those first few

Arlene:

months is feeding, which is something we didn't talk about, and there's a lot of...

Arlene:

We can, as mothers, put a lot of stress on ourselves about a cold point for a lot

Arlene:

of, uh, a lot of medical and, um, society.

Arlene:

Ladies both willing to talk about how your babies ate in the first

Arlene:

year, or the first six months, which seems to be a critical pressure.

Arlene:

Sarah, do you want to go

Sarah:

first?

Sarah:

Yeah, I can go first.

Sarah:

I ended up breastfeeding, um, Scout for the whole first year and she had, um,

Sarah:

some dairy allergies and then, um, we had really bad shortages in our area.

Sarah:

Um, and I am not, I didn't think that I would breastfeed for the whole

Sarah:

first year, but it ended up being, so it was like 44 for a can of, um,

Sarah:

formula and it was the little can.

Sarah:

So that was like a day, it was like about a day.

Sarah:

A little over a day and a half for 44 and I'm like, I cannot afford this

Sarah:

and she didn't tolerate it super well.

Sarah:

And so I was like, well, I guess I'll just keep breastfeeding, you know, um,

Sarah:

but it was a, it was not an easy journey.

Sarah:

I was a just enough for, I constantly was having to power pump.

Sarah:

I would usually like power pump twice a week just to make sure that my supply

Sarah:

was like staying up enough and it seemed like it would, I would get it.

Sarah:

To where it was good and then it would dip and then I would get it back up

Sarah:

and dip and get it back up and dip and so it was a constant constant battle.

Sarah:

Um, and I had mastitis and clogs and she, um, at four months decided

Sarah:

that toys were more fun than eating.

Sarah:

And so I pretty much, um, pumped during the day.

Sarah:

She would eat at night if it was dark or if it was if it was

Sarah:

just her and I at home alone.

Sarah:

So, Sometimes she would eat, um, but I have a really slow let down.

Sarah:

So then she would get really frustrated.

Sarah:

And so, um, we ended up breastfeeding and struggled through it.

Sarah:

And there was a lot of pumping and dishes involved.

Sarah:

Um, but it was, I didn't envision that for myself, you know?

Sarah:

And so, um, yeah, that's, uh, I'm really glad to be weaned.

Sarah:

So really, really.

Arlene:

Yeah, that sounds like a lot of pressure.

Arlene:

What about you, Kristen, with two babies to

Kristen:

feed?

Kristen:

Yeah, so I, I decided, um, pre delivery that I was going

Kristen:

to formula feed the twins.

Kristen:

Um, I had done a lot of research and talked to a lot of other moms about

Kristen:

their experiences and whatnot, and certainly I, I kind of came at it from

Kristen:

my own mental health standpoint, knowing my own, um, stress levels and whatnot.

Kristen:

And I just, in my mind, I couldn't logistically understand how to feed two

Kristen:

babies and survive at the same time.

Kristen:

And certainly, I know there are women that do it, and that is absolutely incredible.

Kristen:

I am in awe of them.

Kristen:

Um, but for me, I chose to formula feed, uh, pre babies.

Kristen:

Um, Would I have chosen the same thing knowing the struggles that

Kristen:

we had through the last year?

Kristen:

Um, probably not.

Kristen:

Like Sarah said, um, we had extreme shortages in our area and it was so

Kristen:

stressful because I just assumed, oh, you need formula, you go to

Kristen:

the store, you get the formula, you feed the baby, whatever, done.

Kristen:

And And

Arlene:

like we said, going to the store is already

Kristen:

That is so true.

Kristen:

Exactly.

Kristen:

Absolutely.

Kristen:

And so We, we struggled.

Kristen:

Um, we started off the twins, um, on the formula that they had at the hospital,

Kristen:

um, which was a, like a pre mix stuff, so it was great, it was just like ready

Kristen:

feed, um, which was fantastic, and so, um, they, we, as a recommendation from

Kristen:

our, from the, from Public Health, uh, we fed that to them for two, two ish

Kristen:

months, um, before we went to powdered formula, and that stuff is Friggin

Kristen:

expensive like when you find it you we bought it and I can remember going

Kristen:

to walmart over and over again and Talking about asking people for favors.

Kristen:

My number one favor was if you see formula buy it.

Kristen:

I will e transfer you immediately um, and so I had like all of my family, friends,

Kristen:

scouring, looking out, um, on any store.

Kristen:

My mom would go to multiple stores and ask, and then they started to put limits

Kristen:

on, you know, how many you can take.

Kristen:

And it didn't matter that I had two babies to feed.

Kristen:

I was one, I was one parent, and so they would only let me take one, um, container,

Kristen:

which would just, you know, be eaten up within, like, a matter of, Hours, if not

Kristen:

a day, um, so that was extremely stressful and something that I never anticipated.

Kristen:

I don't think any parents did, um, but thankfully we, we were able to still

Kristen:

continue feeding the twins because, um, I, I didn't nurse at all, so my supply like

Kristen:

very quickly, um, dried up, um, and so.

Kristen:

I was like, well, what, how, like, I don't even have an option here.

Kristen:

Um, so, on top of that, having two babies with two different needs,

Kristen:

um, our daughter, she had some very significant reflux issues pretty early on.

Kristen:

And being a first time mom, I had no idea.

Kristen:

I knew babies spit up.

Kristen:

I knew they were fussy.

Kristen:

I knew they cried.

Kristen:

Um, but something just seemed off with Ellie.

Kristen:

Like, she was just not comfortable.

Kristen:

Really, like, Feeding was a challenge for her and afterwards she was always

Kristen:

just so just, yeah, frustrated it seemed.

Kristen:

And, um, so through a series of trial and error and finally, you know, getting, um,

Kristen:

getting to the doctor and talking to them about it, we tried all kinds of different

Kristen:

formulas, uh, to see what fit well with her, her tummy and her reflux and whatnot

Kristen:

and went to go and see a pediatrician.

Kristen:

Thankfully, she wasn't, uh, she didn't have, um, what they would classify as

Kristen:

a cow's milk protein allergy, but she just had a really sensitive stomach.

Kristen:

And so, not only feeding formula to two babies, but feeding two different formulas

Kristen:

to two babies, um, that was, again, a challenge that I didn't anticipate,

Kristen:

and something that brought me so much anxiety, that, like, I would keep, like,

Kristen:

Stock like we would have our stockpile of each formula and down to the day.

Kristen:

I knew how much we had, um, and how much I needed to get.

Kristen:

And so, you know, I tried not to get into that.

Kristen:

Like, um, you know.

Kristen:

fear buying and like stockpiling mode.

Kristen:

But as a parent, when that's your only option to feed your infant,

Kristen:

like you can't help but, but do that.

Kristen:

So whenever we would find it, I, you know, I would try to get as much as I could.

Kristen:

And so, yeah, that was our feeding journey.

Kristen:

I am so thankful.

Kristen:

They're on solid foods now and we are, um, way past that, but.

Kristen:

Certainly, I feel for all the parents out there right now who, who do and are

Kristen:

continuing to experience these shortages because you are literally have no control.

Kristen:

Seems

Arlene:

like a basic, and it is, it's a basic need this.

Arlene:

Yeah, it's been such a wild time for anyone who is, yeah, like you

Arlene:

said, it seems this is something that our infants need to survive

Arlene:

and that that was not available.

Arlene:

When people needed it, it was such a, such a scary situation, and I don't

Arlene:

think that there were so many people who, I mean, if you're not in it,

Arlene:

you didn't have to think about it, or it wasn't even on the radar, right?

Arlene:

Like, it, yeah, you didn't have someone in your life who was feeding, it was

Arlene:

in the news once in a while, but if you weren't in the mom and baby groups on,

Arlene:

you know, on social media, baby during that time, probably lots of people didn't

Arlene:

even know it was an issue, but it was such a huge thing for so many people.

Arlene:

Mm hmm.

Arlene:

So, in both of your original episodes, we ended up talking

Arlene:

about stress and mental health.

Arlene:

So, Sarah, you talked a bit about the course of the past year, the

Arlene:

first few weeks, but how do you feel like your mental health and your

Arlene:

stress level has been kind of over?

Arlene:

So,

Sarah:

overall, I think it's been pretty good.

Sarah:

I have Um, a lot of help, you know, and so that helps too.

Sarah:

Um, Scout goes to my mom's once a week and Zach's mom's once a week, so

Sarah:

I have enough time to get some self care in and run my errands and do a

Sarah:

few fun things and stuff like that.

Sarah:

And I'm good about, like, carving out minutes during nap time and after

Sarah:

bedtime and stuff like that to make sure that I'm like, um, doing the

Sarah:

things I need to do to fill my cup.

Sarah:

I'm a big person, like I need.

Sarah:

some quiet time.

Sarah:

I need some me time.

Sarah:

And so just knowing that I have to prioritize that I think has helped.

Sarah:

Um, and so also I went to therapy and that helped a ton to just

Sarah:

like have somebody to talk to.

Sarah:

And I feel like there's so much judgment in parenthood.

Sarah:

Like, I don't, I just need to get this stuff off of my chest.

Sarah:

I really can't have a friend or a family member being like, well, Why don't you

Sarah:

just or why isn't this happening or whatever like I don't have time for

Sarah:

that shit and also I can't tell somebody something and then like Fear that they're

Sarah:

gonna bring it up again against me.

Sarah:

You know what I mean?

Sarah:

And so I was like, okay therapy it is which has been great and I've done

Sarah:

therapy lots and lots and lots of times And so I just, I think I did it for like

Sarah:

two months and it was great just to get some stuff off of my shoulders, off of

Sarah:

my chest, and there's a ton of other stuff happening with family right now.

Sarah:

And, um, so I think that that has helped tremendously.

Sarah:

I'm just, mental health is always just a slow roll for me.

Sarah:

Like, something I have to stay up on.

Sarah:

It's something that has to be a priority.

Sarah:

Um, or else.

Sarah:

Things get out of control really quickly, both with depression and anxiety.

Sarah:

And so I think that, um, I have after the first little bit.

Sarah:

So, so the first two weeks were really hard and then things got pretty easy.

Sarah:

And then the four months sleep regression wrecked my world.

Sarah:

Um, and then that lasted for a long time in that.

Sarah:

So at the four months sleep regression.

Sarah:

was when I went back to work, which was a clusterfuck beyond imaginable.

Sarah:

And then we went into the field.

Sarah:

So then we were super busy and I was like, well, I can't really like, like

Sarah:

I knew I needed to sleep train her.

Sarah:

I knew that, that for, I wanted to do Ferber.

Sarah:

I knew that she's a kid who needed that and not that everybody does.

Sarah:

And I know there's lots of opinions on that and that's fantastic.

Sarah:

I needed that and she needed that, but also how can you sleep train a kid when

Sarah:

they're sleeping in a tractor three naps a day and bedtime isn't consistent?

Sarah:

Wake time isn't consistent, you know, so I felt like I had to

Sarah:

wait till after harvest was over.

Sarah:

So I ended up sleep training or closer to six months, um, which was a saving grace.

Sarah:

It was, oh my gosh, I, if you have a kid who's not a good sleeper.

Sarah:

Ferber it up, baby.

Sarah:

Like, it, it, it was a lifesaver for us.

Sarah:

Literally a lifesaver.

Sarah:

Um, and so I counted one day.

Sarah:

I was, I, in one day, I spent seven and a half hours trying

Sarah:

to get her to fall asleep.

Sarah:

In one day.

Sarah:

And I was like, This is why I'm crazy!

Sarah:

Right?

Sarah:

You know?

Sarah:

Um, and so.

Sarah:

Exactly.

Sarah:

You can't, you can't.

Sarah:

Oh, and you're working full time right now, you know, so, um, that was insane.

Sarah:

And so, um, after so kind of the first couple of weeks were tough and

Sarah:

then it got easier and then four to six months was rocky and I blocked

Sarah:

most of that out of my memory.

Sarah:

I don't remember a lot of it.

Sarah:

I know that going back to work was really rough.

Sarah:

I know the harvest was really rough.

Sarah:

I know that I was waking up a lot and then Ferber came along and things

Sarah:

have been smooth sailing since then.

Sarah:

Not that she hasn't regressed or we haven't done little

Sarah:

resets or things like that.

Sarah:

But, um, that has.

Sarah:

Sleep makes the world, world of difference.

Sarah:

And when you have sleep, then other things fall into place, you know?

Sarah:

And so, um, that has made, I think, the biggest difference for me.

Sarah:

So, just knowing that I need to prioritize that and stuff has been really key.

Sarah:

And my husband has a lot of health issues.

Sarah:

So, part of it also is like, he can't really have not a lot of sleep either.

Sarah:

You know what I mean?

Sarah:

And so...

Sarah:

Um, there's a tremendous amount of like, uh, like, like saying they

Sarah:

like, why doesn't your husband get up

Kristen:

with them?

Kristen:

Like,

Sarah:

I don't have time for that.

Sarah:

He doesn't have time for that.

Sarah:

That I'd still have to get up and pump, like

Kristen:

shut up.

Kristen:

You know what I mean?

Sarah:

And not that he's not helpful and not that he not that men shouldn't

Sarah:

get up at night with their babies, but in our situation, it just.

Sarah:

That would have been way more difficult for you know, so anyway, I think that

Sarah:

um overall we're doing good now We're we we hit our stride after six months And I

Sarah:

also think that like there's something to be said when babies can reciprocate love

Sarah:

You know what I mean and for so long.

Sarah:

They're just like Sitting there like a bump on a log and then they can hug

Sarah:

you and run up to you and say mama and like that Warms your heart there is

Sarah:

there is something to be said for that in terms of like not only filling your

Sarah:

cup But just like that human connection, you know, and so I feel like now that

Sarah:

we're in that stage It's so much easier than it was in the first little bit.

Sarah:

Yeah,

Arlene:

that all makes a lot of sense I know with the the dad Waking up with

Arlene:

the babies, like I breastfed all of mine for the year and sometimes a little bit

Arlene:

more and it was like, so if he gets up, then the baby screams harder because they

Arlene:

just want to eat and I had to probably wake him up to go and say, could you

Arlene:

go and see if you can get the baby?

Kristen:

Also, I'm going to have to

Sarah:

wake him up three or four times for him to actually get his ass out of bed.

Sarah:

So then I'm going to be mad, he's going to be mad, the baby's mad, and

Sarah:

now I have to pump and do dishes.

Sarah:

And, yeah.

Arlene:

This is so helpful, yeah, for everyone.

Caite:

Well, and as with, as someone with two littles close in age, and I'm sure

Caite:

Kristen's in the same spot, that if one wakes up and then you have to wake your

Caite:

husband up three times, then the other kid is up, the dogs are up, the cats are

Caite:

up, neighbors five miles away are up.

Caite:

And then I'm pissed at my husband, and the baby, and myself.

Caite:

And the universe, and it, not being able to, yeah, everything, like it's easier,

Arlene:

and it's really easy to fall back asleep,

Sarah:

and after all, that's what I was just going

Kristen:

to say, and when I'm that mad,

Sarah:

falling back asleep is not really an option.

Sarah:

Now I've got to fight with my

Kristen:

husband for an hour.

Kristen:

I mean, it's just not worth it.

Arlene:

Even if he's gone back to sleep, I'm fighting in my head.

Arlene:

Your field of.

Arlene:

Education and expertise is also in mental health.

Arlene:

Do you think that impacted you differently, kind of

Arlene:

knowing what to expect?

Arlene:

Yeah, now I'm googling

Caite:

divorce lawyers.

Arlene:

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Arlene:

Googling that.

Arlene:

So, Kristen, are you willing to talk a little bit?

Arlene:

I mean, I know you're, did that impact at all how you felt about your stress level

Arlene:

and your mental health over the last year?

Kristen:

I would say yes and no.

Kristen:

Um, and in a sense, my, my mental health journey postpartum,

Kristen:

um, was really up and down.

Kristen:

And, um, I certainly had some seasons and some time sprints

Kristen:

that were easier than others.

Kristen:

And so with, um, with me being, I was still, uh, trying to complete my

Kristen:

master's, uh, when the twins arrived.

Kristen:

So, What we had planned was that I would take a four month maternity leave.

Kristen:

Um, and, uh, And, uh, focus on the kids for those four months.

Kristen:

And then we were very thankful that, um, my husband's work has parental leave.

Kristen:

And so he would take the following four months, I would finish up school, um, and

Kristen:

then we would figure it out from there.

Kristen:

Which did go to plan, um, in some ways and not in others.

Kristen:

And so those first four months, um, of me, Uh, kind of being the primary

Kristen:

parent, uh, during the day and my husband does work at home as well, which a

Kristen:

lot of people are like, Oh, that must be so great and so nice, which it's

Kristen:

great to have an extra set of hands, but also knowing that he has other,

Kristen:

he's there, but he can't always help.

Kristen:

Uh, he hears the screams, but he can't always grab a baby, uh, cause

Kristen:

he's in a meeting or he's, you know, running to, uh, to do the next thing.

Kristen:

And so, um, that was that those first four months, um, you

Kristen:

know, it was just a lot of.

Kristen:

Trying to unders like, to figure out motherhood on my own, and I really

Kristen:

struggled with being that kind of self critical person and, you know, thinking

Kristen:

about, like, well, why isn't this going the way that I think it should be going?

Kristen:

And why are they doing this?

Kristen:

And why?

Kristen:

Like, I was always questioning, well, why is this happening?

Kristen:

And why is this?

Kristen:

And so many times people would be like, well, they're just a baby.

Kristen:

That's what happens.

Kristen:

And to me, that was not a good enough answer I needed to know.

Kristen:

To know which now thinking about it.

Kristen:

It's like well there that is the only answer really Um, but for me in that

Kristen:

that mindset that I was in Um, it was just so all encompassing, well

Kristen:

why aren't these sleeping and why are they crying and what is going on

Kristen:

and why aren't they eating right now?

Kristen:

And I always just had to like, you know, really, I had kind of this

Kristen:

like tight feeling around like I need to control everything, um,

Kristen:

because I want it to go this way.

Kristen:

And we would hit a good day and it'd be like, oh, awesome!

Kristen:

Finally we're hitting our stride.

Kristen:

We're doing great.

Kristen:

And then the next day would absolutely go to shit Like there was no question

Kristen:

about it And I don't know if it was just like the cadence of our days or whatnot

Kristen:

But mondays for us were like absolute shit shows I was just kind of like every

Kristen:

monday and I came to a point where like I would almost like Feel that tension and

Kristen:

anxiety leading up to a monday and being like, oh my god, this is horrible Like

Kristen:

i'm i'm not working so I don't have that like work stress of uh of a monday But

Kristen:

for some reason the kids were just like a nightmare that day and I was just like

Kristen:

absolutely spent at the end of the day So we, you know, kind of, we get through the

Kristen:

summer, we get to the fall and I'm like, okay, great, awesome, I'm going to get

Kristen:

back to school, I'm going to, you know, focus on that, and Tony's going to be,

Kristen:

you know, taking care of the kids, and that'll be awesome because I don't have to

Kristen:

do any of that, and we start transitioning through the fall and it's just like, I

Kristen:

had such a hard time letting go after being the primary parent, um, and And it

Kristen:

kind of created a little bit of tension between us, I would say, um, because

Kristen:

he Seeing it now from his perspective.

Kristen:

He was like, well, why don't you trust me to take care of our kids?

Kristen:

He's like I'm the dad like I have the time I can this is what I'm supposed to

Kristen:

be doing And I was just kind of like well Have you you know when the if the I was

Kristen:

in my office, you know doing stuff and I could hear the kids in In the house for

Kristen:

instance, and I was just like I would come out and be like, oh, have you tried this?

Kristen:

Or what about that or you know has have you changed their diaper?

Kristen:

Have they had a poop today like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and I

Kristen:

would just like start like ranting and going off and he's just like He would

Kristen:

look at it and be like, you, you know, like, I, I don't have the confidence

Kristen:

in him as a parent and it wasn't that.

Kristen:

It was like my own.

Kristen:

I was like, why aren't these kids like, why aren't they acting how we, we, we

Kristen:

think they should be acting and how, how I want them to be and controlling them.

Kristen:

And so that was, um.

Kristen:

That was right around, like, the fall, the four month mark, and so we certainly

Kristen:

went through the hellish four, four month sleep regression too, and with

Kristen:

two babies, like, oh my god, like, it was, we went right into sleep training.

Kristen:

As soon as I felt like they were ready for it, we firboarded up, and it, also, Sarah,

Kristen:

yeah, like, I can't, I don't think I would be, um, a functioning human without that.

Kristen:

Uh, we sleep trained the babies, and they, they both were, Um,

Kristen:

had the right personality for that and we, we got through that.

Kristen:

Um, but then we kind of got into this phase where the kids were

Kristen:

sleeping and things were going well.

Kristen:

Um, and then I started to have, um, some personal challenges,

Kristen:

uh, with my mental health.

Kristen:

And it was, you know, looking back at it now, it's easy to look back and see all

Kristen:

the red flags and the signs and whatnot.

Kristen:

Um, but in the moment I.

Kristen:

Really was having a hard time, um, with a lot of my personal anxiety issues, um,

Kristen:

that I had struggled with pre partum and like, you know, before becoming a mom.

Kristen:

Um, but this was at a level that I wasn't, um, I hadn't really experienced before.

Kristen:

And so, I was really struggling, um, with kind of racing thoughts and

Kristen:

ruminating thoughts and not really being able to shut my brain off.

Kristen:

Um, and, you know, that's, I think most moms can attest to

Kristen:

kind of feeling that a lot.

Kristen:

Your brain just like, you know, clicks on and it's always popping

Kristen:

off about to do lists and this and that and on the farm and whatnot.

Kristen:

Um, but for me it was, to a point where it was really starting to affect

Kristen:

my sleep and I was not sleeping.

Kristen:

Um, but the babies were sleeping, which then frustrated me because

Kristen:

I was like, why can't I sleep?

Kristen:

My kids are sleeping.

Kristen:

I finally got to this stage.

Kristen:

What is wrong with me?

Kristen:

Why am I not sleeping?

Kristen:

You know, what's going on with me?

Kristen:

And it was just kind of like, start to cycle.

Kristen:

And this really, um, I would say went on for about six months, um, where I was on

Kristen:

again, off again, um, mostly not sleeping through the night, um, just really having,

Kristen:

and the, the rest that I did have wasn't, um, you know, restorative and good for me.

Kristen:

So then the days were hard, um, and I was trying to finish school and

Kristen:

also be a mom on the side and be a partner and, you know, do some self

Kristen:

care for myself because I knew.

Kristen:

Um, you know, being in mental health and, and studying it and knowing all the good

Kristen:

things that I should be doing for myself.

Kristen:

I knew what I should be doing, but I did not have the capacity

Kristen:

to be able to do that for myself.

Kristen:

Um, which was also a frustration for me because I'm like, why can't I do this?

Kristen:

I know this would help me if I could get to it or if I could find the time or if I

Kristen:

could find, you know, quiet myself down.

Kristen:

long enough to just be able to do that, to, you know, to go for a walk

Kristen:

or to, um, to, you know, eat a healthy meal or something along those lines.

Kristen:

Um, so for me, um, those, the red flag really was like my sleep.

Kristen:

That was something that I, I can't function without sleep.

Kristen:

I've always been the type of person that I need my eight hours.

Kristen:

Otherwise I just can't get through the day.

Kristen:

And so, you know, after months of experiencing this, I was like, okay,

Kristen:

I need, I need to do something.

Kristen:

This can't go on.

Kristen:

This is not sustainable.

Kristen:

This is not good for anyone, including.

Kristen:

myself the most.

Kristen:

And so, um, I met with my, my doctor, my GP, um, who, at first,

Kristen:

we started with a sleeping pill, um, just because I was like, that

Kristen:

at least will give me some rest.

Kristen:

And so, after, um, about a couple months of, um, of using that, which was kind of

Kristen:

working here and there, but then I would go through going a really difficult, you

Kristen:

know, just kind of worrying anxiety spell, um, then the sleeping pill wouldn't work.

Kristen:

I would wake up, um, I would go to bed, have no problem falling asleep because

Kristen:

I was exhausted throughout the day.

Kristen:

Like, you know, just dealing with the kids and all of the just life stuff

Kristen:

every day, um, at the end of the day.

Kristen:

I was exhausted, so falling asleep was not an issue for me.

Kristen:

It was staying asleep, and so I would wake up multiple times throughout

Kristen:

the night and again, not be restful.

Kristen:

I would move to the spare room, I would go to the couch, I would turn the TV on.

Kristen:

I would, you know, try to read a book.

Kristen:

I would listen to a sleep meditation, like all over the things.

Kristen:

I would just kind of like go through and eventually, At some point, I would sort of

Kristen:

doze off, but then by that point, it was time to wake up and feed the kids again.

Kristen:

And so, um, the sleeping pill kind of helped for a little bit, but

Kristen:

then, um, it wasn't really a, a a sustainable long term option for me.

Kristen:

And so I was like, okay, well, what's next?

Kristen:

What can I be doing?

Kristen:

And so throughout that process, I did, um, I was, I was journaling.

Kristen:

I was trying to do regular meditations and some of that stuff

Kristen:

was, was helping, um, and was.

Kristen:

Um, you know, good for me.

Kristen:

Um, but it still wasn't getting to the point where I knew I needed to be.

Kristen:

Um, in terms of like, healthy me and like, really showing up as my full self.

Kristen:

And so, I went back to my doctor again and I said, Look, um,

Kristen:

you know, this isn't working.

Kristen:

And I should also add as well that I did

Kristen:

Um, and so that was something also that I, I knew I needed to do for my

Kristen:

self care, um, and thankfully with my mom, she would come once a week.

Kristen:

So I knew I would have, you know, an hour every Thursday that I could talk to my

Kristen:

therapist, similar to like what Sarah said, and just kind of like unload and,

Kristen:

um, And this was something, you know, the, the postpartum anxiety was something that

Kristen:

I, um, I spoke with her quite a lot about.

Kristen:

Um, and so once I got to that point where the sleeping pill wasn't really working,

Kristen:

I knew I needed something else, I, I had kind of struggled with the idea of

Kristen:

turning to um, an anti anxiety medication.

Kristen:

Um, and For me, I know, um, being in the field of mental health,

Kristen:

all of the good things that can come with taking medication.

Kristen:

Um, and that it is something that I encourage others, that if it is something

Kristen:

that you want to consider for your mental health, I encourage people and I know

Kristen:

that they can be very valuable, uh, tools for people to use in coordination with.

Kristen:

a lot of other self care practices, and so when it came for time for me to consider

Kristen:

that for myself, I had a hard time just kind of processing that and being

Kristen:

like, well, why do I need medication?

Kristen:

I should know better.

Kristen:

I should know how to, you know, get myself healthy again, um,

Kristen:

without the help of this, and so.

Kristen:

So, through a lot of talking with my therapist about this, and um, one of the

Kristen:

things that really kind of clicked for me, um, was she, she enlightened me and said,

Kristen:

you know, you're, you're taking a sleeping pill every day, so how different is it

Kristen:

than taking an anti anxiety medication?

Kristen:

She's like, the sleeping pill's not working for you, but you still take, like,

Kristen:

but you're still, you know, using it.

Kristen:

Why, what's your hesitation in taking, um, taking a different form of medication?

Kristen:

And so, So, that kind of shifted my mindset a little bit to say, yeah, you

Kristen:

know what, why, why do I, um, have this kind of internal bias, um, and the, this

Kristen:

thought pattern, and so I, I took some time to really sort of understand my,

Kristen:

my internal hesitation around that, um, and ultimately came to the decision that

Kristen:

it was time for me to consider and start taking, um, an anti anxiety medication,

Kristen:

and I knew that It is a process to kind of get yourself on to, um, the, the right

Kristen:

medication for you at the right dosage.

Kristen:

So there's many different options and there's different side effects that you

Kristen:

do need to, uh, consider and understand.

Kristen:

Um, and how your body reacts to that.

Kristen:

Um, it can be a bit of a trial and error process.

Kristen:

So I was a little...

Kristen:

Kind of concerned about that, being like, I know I'm gonna feel

Kristen:

like crap for about two weeks, um, while I take this new medication.

Kristen:

Um, and I was almost, I think, worried that I would get worse, that I, but I

Kristen:

was already in such a bad state of, like, no sleep and, um, you know, very little

Kristen:

patience for everything in life that anything was gonna be better than this.

Kristen:

And so, um, I started taking my medication, um, that the doctor

Kristen:

prescribed to me and, um, it was honestly the best decision that I've

Kristen:

made for myself in the last year.

Kristen:

And it is something that I never thought I would need or

Kristen:

never thought I would consider.

Kristen:

Um, because I do work in mental health and I do have good self care practices and I

Kristen:

know what I need to be doing for myself.

Kristen:

But as a new mom with two young babies that have so many needs and we always put

Kristen:

everybody before ourselves, those things, it almost seemed to me like I could...

Kristen:

see everything that I needed to do.

Kristen:

It was behind a glass wall and I could not access it.

Kristen:

And now having my medication, um, I can open up that glass wall and

Kristen:

I can access everything again.

Kristen:

And I am so thankful that I am sleeping, that I am healthy, that I am able to, you

Kristen:

know, start new things like a new job.

Kristen:

Um, be a functioning parent, um, and be a partner to my husband

Kristen:

that's not, you know, completely at my wits end all the time.

Kristen:

So that's really been my mental health journey over the last year and it's been

Kristen:

extremely eye opening, very challenging, um, but I'm really happy to say that

Kristen:

I am in a healthy place right now.

Arlene:

Thank you for sharing that with us.

Arlene:

I think it's really important to recognize that even Someone who knows

Arlene:

as much about mental health as you do, that you still had that bias

Arlene:

even kind of against yourself, right?

Arlene:

Like, that it was, it was fine for, for other people, but you

Arlene:

know, I'll be okay without it.

Arlene:

But, but yeah, it's interesting to know that even that.

Arlene:

That lots of people can, you can, we can all talk about mental health, but,

Arlene:

but sometimes it's harder to, to self reflect and realize that, that the help

Arlene:

that we think other people can access, we also need to be kind to ourselves

Arlene:

and, and do the same things for us.

Caite:

All right.

Caite:

So Arlene, I'm going to steal your question.

Caite:

Um, Sarah, one of the big surprises that I had as a new parent was how hard it

Caite:

was on my body to care for an infant.

Caite:

Um, you know, I ended up with tendinitis in both knees from standing up from

Caite:

the couch while holding a baby post C section, like, just that sort of random.

Caite:

Ended up with tennis elbow from carrying around a huge baby, and then ended

Caite:

up with tennis elbow in both elbows from carrying around two huge babies.

Caite:

Um, so knowing that your background is in exercise physiology, how have you...

Caite:

dealt with this bullshit.

Caite:

Did anybody warn anybody about any of this?

Caite:

Cause, I feel like, this seems to be a common thing, but nobody

Sarah:

ever seems to be warned about anything to do with my body other than

Sarah:

taking care of your hoo ha after you tear.

Sarah:

That's, that's all there was.

Sarah:

Yeah.

Sarah:

Like, oh yeah, don't use toilet paper.

Sarah:

Good luck.

Kristen:

You

Sarah:

know, and so I think that, um, uh, You had said in our first episode

Sarah:

that there are so many repetitive motion injuries from carrying around babies and

Sarah:

stuff like that and that was the first time I'd really ever heard anything.

Sarah:

I know that like, Oh, your back can hurt if you carry them around too much.

Sarah:

And, of course, my pregnant self was like, Well, I'm gonna teach my kid to

Sarah:

be content on their own, so I don't have to carry them around too much.

Sarah:

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Sarah:

Yeah, like shit.

Caite:

How's that working out for you, Sarah?

Caite:

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Caite:

It worked out

Sarah:

real good.

Sarah:

So, I think that in the first, um, Like, little bit.

Sarah:

Super, super post C section.

Sarah:

I was like, okay, I need to make sure that my pelvic floor is, um, is strengthening.

Sarah:

That my, I had a pretty severe diastasis recti.

Sarah:

So, like, I was making sure that I was doing my, um, you know, my, uh, dead bugs

Sarah:

and my clamshells and all that stuff.

Sarah:

And I had a little bit of pubic symphysis issues.

Sarah:

So, I was doing my exercises and making sure that my body was getting

Sarah:

back to where I was able to...

Sarah:

Walk around and carry a baby and get up and down off the floor and

Sarah:

um, you know, not shit my pants in Home Depot but I think that

Caite:

It sounds like an oddly specific

Kristen:

So,

Sarah:

okay.

Sarah:

I did not shit my pants in Home Depot and I really debated on making this

Sarah:

a tick tock But I feel like this is a safer place than tick tock.

Sarah:

So I'm gonna I'm gonna say it here Okay, so there are

Kristen:

few things that men will never

Sarah:

have to deal with.

Sarah:

Okay, first

Kristen:

of all,

Sarah:

putting their cart of lumber

Kristen:

aside that they're buying for someone else to go to Home Depot,

Kristen:

to the bathroom in Home Depot, to hold their infant on their toilet,

Kristen:

on the toilet, while they poop is one of those things that my husband

Kristen:

will never have to deal with.

Kristen:

First of

Sarah:

all, it will be a rare day that he will be running errands with our child by

Kristen:

himself.

Kristen:

And his pelvic floor is woven tighter than a Langeberger basket.

Kristen:

Like, this is just not a thing that he will ever have to deal with.

Kristen:

And to that, I say, fuck

Sarah:

you.

Sarah:

You know?

Sarah:

Come on, man.

Caite:

I'm, I'm just envisioning your husband's pelvic floor being lined

Caite:

with, like, that blue gingham shit.

Caite:

And, like, I'm sorry, I'm done.

Caite:

I'm...

Caite:

As, as someone whose pelvic floor posts...

Caite:

Direct eye and hernia surgery and five more hernias is more like...

Caite:

A fishing net that has gone through a hurricane.

Caite:

And then through, like, a jet engine, I'm...

Caite:

Yeah, yeah.

Caite:

so anyway, um,

Sarah:

I totally forgot where I was.

Sarah:

I just, I'm envisioning my collection of Langeberger baskets now, and how

Sarah:

I should decorate them for summer.

Sarah:

But, um...

Sarah:

Oh, uh, the body.

Sarah:

Physiologically.

Arlene:

So,

Sarah:

after getting back to kind of like where I was, being able to

Sarah:

function, then I started thinking about like, okay, how do I need to

Sarah:

strengthen my body so that I can put the car seat in the car and do some of

Sarah:

the things that are like a little bit more, take a little bit more balance and

Sarah:

coordination and s and things like that.

Sarah:

Um, and so I was just surprised at how many muscles you need to do simple things

Sarah:

after all those muscles are moved and stretched and cut and all that stuff.

Sarah:

So we think that, um, That was really surprising for me, um, and then also

Sarah:

just knowing what I know, like, I know that I need to strengthen, to lift

Sarah:

weights, to do exercises in order to be able to carry my child, you know,

Kristen:

um, and yeah, she is a stage 5 clinger

Sarah:

and so, um, there is no teaching her to be content on her own, even

Kristen:

now she's like, Just

Sarah:

loves to be held, you know, and so I think that at, you know, 26 pounds,

Sarah:

it's a little bit different, um, and I still carry her, like, in the, in the

Sarah:

baby carrier, or the infant, you know, carrier that you strap to you, um,

Sarah:

quite a bit, and I think that I've now thought a lot about my body structure

Sarah:

and how I, um, how I walk the shoes that I wear, how I stand if I'm just standing

Sarah:

around the kind of angle of my pelvis, which changes after you have a baby.

Sarah:

Um, and that really can change the amount of pressure on your low back.

Sarah:

And so paying attention to those things, um, has been really

Sarah:

beneficial, but still like you hold it.

Sarah:

26 pound baby for it doesn't matter how long or like, you know,

Sarah:

for a while and your back hurts.

Sarah:

And so then what do I need to do at the end of the day or after I put her down in

Sarah:

order to stretch my back to make sure that I'm not then overcompensating in other

Sarah:

areas because then sometimes that can cause soreness and tension and issues You

Sarah:

know, where you're not even expecting it.

Sarah:

So, um, there's kind of like the, the chain of your body, right?

Sarah:

That starts with the arches of your feet.

Sarah:

And so if you're, if your feet are, are too flat and whether they're

Sarah:

naturally flat or you're wearing, you know, the dollar store flip flops.

Sarah:

It doesn't matter.

Sarah:

Um, but that makes you a little bit knock need.

Sarah:

It kind of turns your knees in a certain way and that makes your hips, your pelvic

Sarah:

girdle like literally fall forward.

Sarah:

And then if you have a, um, a diastasis recti or you have low

Sarah:

back issues or you have different things going on with your core, then

Sarah:

that exacerbates All those issues.

Sarah:

So part of it is like, well, throw your dollar store flip flops away and

Sarah:

buy yourself a pair of Birkenstocks and pay attention to how you're

Sarah:

standing and pay attention to your body structure or your body's, um, stature.

Sarah:

And so that these problems that are just a little bit of soreness here and

Sarah:

there don't turn into big major issues.

Sarah:

And so paying attention to that has been really helpful.

Sarah:

And then also now I do a lot of back, um, weightlifting exercises.

Sarah:

Like, I never had, like, back day before, but now I do, you know?

Sarah:

And so I think that that's important too, that as your baby grows and gets

Sarah:

heavier, you are making sure that you're being proactive on the muscular

Sarah:

front to be able to support your stage 5 clinger as she hits 30 pounds.

Arlene:

And the pesky thing about babies is that the, the 26 pound baby doesn't

Arlene:

just sit in your arms like the, you know, the, the 10 pound one did, right?

Arlene:

Like, they're twisting and turning and reaching for things and then

Arlene:

they want down and then they want back up again right away.

Arlene:

So yeah, the, it's not just the weight, but the, yeah, the movement

Arlene:

and the way that you're carrying.

Sarah:

Absolutely.

Sarah:

And I then carry her on my left side so that I can do things with my right

Sarah:

hand, which then causes a whole other boatload of issues, you know, if I'm

Sarah:

doing that too much or depending on what I'm doing for that day, you know.

Sarah:

Um, and so paying attention to that as well has been really,

Sarah:

uh, interesting, I would say.

Caite:

I'm, I'm really going to put forward to that we should rename these

Caite:

things and change our expectations around them because as I found out, Two, the

Caite:

tendinitis behind your kneecaps has some name like washerwoman's knee or

Caite:

housewife's knee or some goddamn you know one of them's like washerwoman's elbow

Caite:

and housewife's knee and and then if you're me and you have to get cortisone

Caite:

shots because you're an old mom and now you have to get cortisone shots in

Caite:

your elbows because you had two huge ass kids who both need to be dragged

Caite:

around everywhere and it's just like It should be called, like, Bad Bitch Knee.

Caite:

Like, Something cool.

Caite:

Like, It should be, like, And, I don't know if you guys know this, but they

Caite:

warn you that your ligaments get loose during pregnancy, but nobody reminds you

Caite:

that there are ligaments in your knees.

Caite:

And, like, In your elbows and shoulders and shit, and that

Caite:

all of those got loose, too.

Caite:

And they might

Sarah:

not

Kristen:

tighten back up!

Kristen:

In

Sarah:

the same way that they were before.

Sarah:

Like, probably not.

Caite:

Mm hmm.

Caite:

Things that are supposed to be loose will now be tight, and anything that

Caite:

used to be tight will now be loose.

Caite:

Except a few random things, which we'll find out about at some point

Sarah:

later.

Sarah:

I agree, that should be called, like, bad bitch syndrome or something like that.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

Yes.

Caite:

Give it a call.

Arlene:

Now that we've talked about Sarah's husband's pelvic floor, I'm

Arlene:

going to go into my question about relationships and how your marriage

Arlene:

has changed in the last year.

Arlene:

So what is, what is their adjustment to fatherhood been like?

Arlene:

Sarah, I remember one of the things you were looking forward to was

Arlene:

seeing your husband become a dad.

Arlene:

So I'm also wondering about the good things that have happened in your

Arlene:

relationship, not just the fights that have happened in the last year.

Arlene:

So how, how have you seen your

Kristen:

relationship?

Kristen:

Zach went in pretty confident.

Kristen:

He's got brothers

Sarah:

who are 10 and 13 years younger.

Sarah:

So

Kristen:

he was kind of like, no, I'm good with babies.

Kristen:

Like I'm good with diapers.

Kristen:

I got, got this in the bag.

Kristen:

And he was quickly humbled.

Kristen:

Uh, quickly humbled.

Kristen:

So

Sarah:

that was, um, enjoyable for me to see.

Sarah:

Um, so, but I think that it took him a while.

Sarah:

Same thing to, to bond with

Kristen:

her.

Kristen:

He

Sarah:

did have the experience of, like, this is the best day of my life.

Sarah:

This is the most beautiful experience I've ever had.

Sarah:

Um, but then I think that he got really scared.

Sarah:

And part of it was because then he spent two weeks in the field where he didn't...

Sarah:

Really see us that much and didn't really

Kristen:

interact with her and then it was like

Sarah:

well wait You know everything about her and everything to do

Sarah:

and I saw her one time two weeks ago What do I do now, you know?

Sarah:

And so I feel like that was challenging to have her at the beginning of planting

Sarah:

season And then it took them a while to bond, which I do think is normal.

Sarah:

I've had several friends I've actually had six friends have babies in the last Um,

Sarah:

well, since the beginning of the year, so the last six months, really, so I think

Sarah:

that that's pretty normal, um, to see,

Kristen:

and then that was a little bit challenging, too, because I would

Sarah:

be like, do, do this, do that, do this, do that, and he, um, is like,

Kristen:

I don't, I don't

Sarah:

know what

Kristen:

to do or

Sarah:

how to do

Kristen:

it or anything like that, and I was like, I thought you were Mr.

Kristen:

Confident coming into this thing, you know,

Sarah:

so, um, I think that overall parenting

Kristen:

together has been interesting, challenging, beautiful, you know, it's fun

Kristen:

to watch him become a dad and fun to watch

Sarah:

like their relationship flourish and now they have so much

Sarah:

fun together and it's hilarious.

Sarah:

Um, but our relationship in general, I feel like...

Sarah:

Ours is a little bit different, too, because Zach was having so many health

Kristen:

issues up until a couple of months ago.

Kristen:

So now, he's like, feeling

Sarah:

good and motivated for the first time in three years.

Sarah:

And I'm like, okay, but it's 10.

Sarah:

30, like, can you come in the house?

Kristen:

Like, I haven't seen you all day, you know?

Sarah:

So, that has been a welcomed change of pace from me doing

Sarah:

everything to him suddenly, like, feeling good and doing things again.

Sarah:

Um, but I think that there just takes a lot of communication and we

Sarah:

have a lot of like family involved in our farm and stuff like that.

Sarah:

So we try to stay on the same page pretty regularly.

Sarah:

But then with a newborn, of course, that's not As easy or he says something

Sarah:

and I'm sleeping or half sleeping or you know, um, exhausted and vice versa.

Sarah:

So I think that that has been a little bit challenging just re establishing

Sarah:

the priority of communication, um, has been really tough.

Sarah:

And so I think that now we're like in a good system, a good

Sarah:

rhythm and that sort of thing.

Sarah:

Um, but yeah, there were definitely some growing pains through that.

Sarah:

And also like the whole, like.

Sarah:

Mothers just basically take on the entire emotional load and burden

Sarah:

of the logistics of children.

Sarah:

Um, has just been something on my mind a lot lately, you know what I mean?

Sarah:

And like, part of it, we very much have our own domains, right?

Sarah:

His domain is the farm and my domain is everything else, which actually he does a

Sarah:

lot more at the farm than everything else.

Sarah:

So I feel like it was always kind of balanced, but now it's kind of not

Sarah:

balanced, you know, so part of this is also like me encouraging him to take

Sarah:

over to reclaim or to take responsibility for certain things that had previously.

Sarah:

Ben on my plate is like, you got to step up to the plate here, bud, you know?

Sarah:

And so he's more than happy to do it, but I definitely feel like that

Sarah:

took a little bit of hand holding and a little bit of like encouragement

Sarah:

and, and building up his confidence.

Sarah:

I would say it was almost like he didn't feel like he could do things.

Sarah:

He didn't feel like.

Sarah:

He knew what to do, or he could do it as good as me, right, because

Sarah:

mom always does everything best.

Sarah:

And so part of that was like, nope, it's gonna be dad's thing now, and

Sarah:

dad can do it best also, you know.

Sarah:

And so, um, I think that that is, is, important that we did that because

Sarah:

it makes a big difference now.

Sarah:

Um, and for a while when he was not feeling good, that was really

Sarah:

tough because I was basically taking care of him and me and the baby

Sarah:

and the house and everything else and working and everything else.

Sarah:

And so that, um, was really challenging now that he's feeling better though.

Sarah:

It's, it's been a good change over and I feel like in some ways farm families

Sarah:

have to do that every Every season, multiple seasons, when you're done

Sarah:

with harvest, there kind of needs to be that, okay, now that you're done,

Sarah:

you know, working so, such long hours, here's a few things that you need to

Sarah:

take into your zone of responsibility.

Sarah:

Um, because it can really easily be, you find yourself at Christmas time,

Sarah:

still doing everything, and you're like, wait, you're no longer working 16 hours,

Sarah:

so step up to the plate here, bud.

Sarah:

Um.

Kristen:

So I feel

Sarah:

like just having that reset has been really helpful, and I

Sarah:

have to remind myself of that, you know, a few, a few times a year.

Arlene:

Yeah, that's a, that's a really good way on the farm.

Arlene:

So that should carry over into the rest.

Arlene:

Looking at it, that seasonality doesn't, doesn't mean that we all

Arlene:

have the same responsibilities all the time of our lives, right?

Arlene:

Where it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, things are a little bit easier on your end.

Arlene:

So yeah, let's, let's shift some of the, some of the jobs or let's look

Arlene:

again at who's responsible for what and, and who gets to do which jobs.

Arlene:

Kristen, you alluded it.

Arlene:

to it a little bit already, but how do you feel like your marriage and

Arlene:

relationship has changed in the last year, and how has your, your partner

Arlene:

adjusted to being a dad of two?

Kristen:

Yeah, so I, I want to take just a quick little step back to say

Kristen:

that Sarah, I need you to come and do like a physical body consult for me

Kristen:

because the havoc that these twins have, like, on my body Oh my goodness, you

Kristen:

think that like, yeah, you you recover from after birth and it's like, okay.

Kristen:

Yep.

Kristen:

Now i'm back to myself Oh my god, like carrying around two 25 pound

Kristen:

kids because I do carry both of them at the same time It's the most

Kristen:

efficient because i'm not going up and down the stairs multiple times.

Kristen:

Ain't nobody got time for that I have definitely noticed that that change in

Kristen:

my physical body and like, yeah, Katie said, being like an old mom, I'm not in my

Kristen:

20s, like early 20s and like, can't just like whip up and do these things anymore.

Kristen:

I have had this issue with my thumb.

Kristen:

Like it's called like mom thumb or something.

Kristen:

Of

Arlene:

course, or bad bitch thumb, right

Kristen:

Katie?

Kristen:

Yes, exactly.

Kristen:

Yes.

Kristen:

Bad bitch thumb.

Kristen:

That's what it's called.

Caite:

I had forgotten about the fucking mom thumb.

Caite:

I did not even know mom thumb was a thing.

Caite:

Thank you for that, Kristen.

Caite:

Speaking of cortisone shots.

Caite:

Yeah, also mom thumb.

Caite:

Yeah, I was just like.

Caite:

It's, and it's so stupid because it's like, Oh, my badge of honor, my mom

Kristen:

thumb.

Kristen:

Right?

Kristen:

Comes down to that.

Kristen:

Cool.

Caite:

It, it feels like it belongs in the same place that when I found out I

Caite:

was having a C section with the first baby and I was a little like, not upset,

Caite:

but just like, back footed because, same as here, I had, I had a whole birth

Caite:

plan and the C section was not on it.

Caite:

And the nurse, this sweet young thing, she's like 19 and she's

Caite:

real cute, you know, and I was 35 when my daughter was born.

Caite:

And the nurse goes, Well, don't worry, they do see sections so low now,

Caite:

you'll still be able to wear a bikini.

Caite:

And I was like, What are you going to do about the rest of me?

Caite:

Oh

Caite:

my!

Caite:

Like, honey, a scar.

Caite:

Would never stop me from wearing a bathing suit.

Caite:

And like, fine if it does.

Caite:

Like, fine if you're not comfortable with that.

Caite:

But the rest of my existence would stop me from wearing a bikini.

Caite:

And not even in like, a body shaming way, but in a like, I have a hard

Caite:

enough time not flashing people wearing a like, neck high one piece.

Caite:

Like, it's just not a thing.

Caite:

And then they're like, oh, and you got tendinitis in your thumb,

Caite:

and it's called Mom's Thumb.

Caite:

That's great, yeah.

Caite:

Fuck off!

Caite:

Oh, just...

Caite:

Just fuck off with that.

Caite:

Like, no.

Caite:

I refuse

Kristen:

to accept this.

Kristen:

Yeah, yeah, that's my, my bad bitch thumb is my badge of

Kristen:

honor from having two babies.

Kristen:

Like, this is, it's, yeah, it's like the epitome of like, I feel

Kristen:

like it's like the worst thing, like the, the suckiest injury.

Kristen:

I'm like, my thumb hurts.

Kristen:

Like, I feel like I'm being a whiny baby.

Kristen:

Oh, my thumb hurts, but it's like, no, it really freaking hurts.

Kristen:

And every time I like, you pick up your kid and you put your

Kristen:

hand under their, their crotch and you hold them up like that.

Kristen:

It's like, Oh my god, the end of the day.

Kristen:

It's just like holy shit.

Kristen:

Like and yeah, like just trying to like Type on my computer.

Kristen:

I'm like, why do I feel like i'm 80 years old here?

Kristen:

Yeah, it is the worst thing.

Kristen:

So sorry.

Kristen:

I just wanted to jump back to that to say sarah.

Kristen:

I need I need your help girl Um, but in uh in all reality relationship

Kristen:

wise, yeah, that has definitely been um I would say ups and downs as well.

Kristen:

Like the early days you're kind of in this haze where you don't really know what's

Kristen:

going on and whatnot with your partner.

Kristen:

And you kind of know that each other are there for us.

Kristen:

And we were just kind of like.

Kristen:

And with two, really, my husband never had an opportunity to say no

Kristen:

because, you know, I was outnumbered and I'm like, here, have a baby.

Kristen:

And to his full credit, night feedings, we both got up every

Kristen:

time and fed the babies together.

Kristen:

Um, so having Having two babies means both parents step up to the plate for us.

Kristen:

And that just really worked because then it wasn't, you know, feed

Kristen:

one baby, put them down, feed the next baby, put them down.

Kristen:

It was like, okay, how can we do this efficiently as possible?

Kristen:

That was our whole modus operandi as parents is efficiency.

Kristen:

And so I'm very thankful that he does, um, He was able to, to be home and to be, um,

Kristen:

that extra set of hands that I needed, um, in those early days, and even now still,

Kristen:

like, carrying two kids to the car, for instance, like, they're kind of on the

Kristen:

brink of walking right now, they're sort of, like, toppling and, like, wobbly on

Kristen:

their feet, but it's still pick them up and carry them everywhere, and that is

Kristen:

a lot for one person, um, but in terms of, in terms of our relationship, kind of

Kristen:

how it's, It's changed in our marriage.

Kristen:

Um, I would, I would have to say that we're probably in a better

Kristen:

place now than we were before.

Kristen:

And a few, few different reasons for that.

Kristen:

Um, like Sarah said, that communications piece, um, it's forced us to really have

Kristen:

some of those tough conversations and

Kristen:

to just be really open and honest.

Kristen:

And I'm not going to say it's been easy getting here because there were some.

Kristen:

Those early days when I was really struggling with my own anxiety and I

Kristen:

couldn't communicate What I was feeling um, because I just felt like I was failing

Kristen:

at everything as a mom and as a person like I just felt like I could not do a

Kristen:

single thing right, even if I was able to, you know, have dinner made and, you

Kristen:

know, have showered that day, it still felt like a complete failure, which, as

Kristen:

a mom to, you know, two newborn twins, like, that was, like, the, the most, the

Kristen:

best possible situation for me, but I just constantly felt like I was failing,

Kristen:

um, and I can remember vividly, like, after a stretch of just, like, struggle,

Kristen:

you know, I was changing a diaper and downstairs in our living room and I just

Kristen:

remember feeling so overwhelmed and I said to Tony, I'm just like, you know, I, I

Kristen:

just don't know what's wrong with them.

Kristen:

I don't know what's wrong.

Kristen:

I need to figure out what is wrong with them and he just like completely

Kristen:

stopped and it was just like, He looked at me and he's like, Kristen,

Kristen:

you're not doing anything wrong.

Kristen:

Like, you are a good mom.

Kristen:

You are doing everything that you can.

Kristen:

You know, this is just outside of our control right now.

Kristen:

And it was just kind of a bit of a A reconnection point again to

Kristen:

say like, Hey, you've got my back.

Kristen:

You know, yes, this is hard.

Kristen:

This is a struggle right now.

Kristen:

You know, we, we want the perfect, you know, the perfect family and the perfect

Kristen:

baby, and that was the other thing.

Kristen:

Every time, you know, we would meet someone out or, you know, when

Kristen:

we would talk about our family, like, Oh, you have a boy and a

Kristen:

girl, Oh, what a perfect family.

Kristen:

And I was like, our family ain't perfect.

Kristen:

Like, this is sure we have the boy and the girl and the golden retriever dog.

Kristen:

But let me tell you, there is nothing perfect about this.

Kristen:

Um, but I felt like I, I had to like, live up to that standard, right?

Kristen:

Like there was just this pressure that like, oh yes, I have the

Kristen:

perfect family and I must love my children and have a clean house.

Kristen:

And you know, it took me a lot of time.

Kristen:

Just to be comfortable having toys on the floor and like my my OCD clean cleanliness

Kristen:

Like I am a person of minimalism.

Kristen:

I don't like clutter.

Kristen:

I don't like mess I don't like, you know, all of that stuff really like

Kristen:

I it creates anxiety at me I don't say OCD like in a flippant way.

Kristen:

Like I seriously have like a Um, it, it affects me, and so having these two

Kristen:

little hurricanes running through my house nowadays, I'm just like, oh my god.

Kristen:

But, with a lot of communication, and you know, now I look at it very

Kristen:

differently with my husband, and that we're a team to tackle this.

Kristen:

So, yeah, the house is a complete disaster during the day, I

Kristen:

don't fucking care anymore.

Kristen:

You show up to my door.

Kristen:

This is what it is.

Kristen:

I, you know, take it or leave it, you know, and at the end of

Kristen:

the day, we work together, um, to get all of those things done.

Kristen:

And so the division of responsibilities, like Sarah was saying, um, that was

Kristen:

something that had to kind of evolve.

Kristen:

And we had to talk through that as well.

Kristen:

It wasn't something that was just like.

Kristen:

You know, at the start, I was just doing everything because that's,

Kristen:

you know, how it was before.

Kristen:

We have very traditional roles in our marriage, and I'm okay

Kristen:

with that because, you know, he has his strength and I have mine.

Kristen:

We tackle and conquer together.

Kristen:

Um, but at the end of the day, when you have nothing left to give, and

Kristen:

your house is a disaster, and the dog needs to be walked, and oh yeah,

Kristen:

there's no food in the fridge anymore, Well, how are we going to do this?

Kristen:

Is it all on me again?

Kristen:

Because guess what?

Kristen:

I, I can't.

Kristen:

I just can't.

Kristen:

Um, so those divisions of responsibilities, um have been A growing

Kristen:

pain of ours, but I think that we're in a good place now where, you know, we,

Kristen:

we also openly communicate about it.

Kristen:

So after we put the kids to bed at night, our routine is typically one

Kristen:

person takes the dog for a walk and one person cleans up, um, the dishes

Kristen:

and, uh, and the toys in the house.

Kristen:

And so oftentimes we'll just, you know, check in with each other and

Kristen:

be like, which one do you want to do?

Kristen:

Do you need time out of the house?

Kristen:

Do you want to clean up?

Kristen:

You know, just kind of those little things that just kind of yeah, okay It's not

Kristen:

just assumed that okay, you're gonna take care of all of it and i'm gonna go sit

Kristen:

on the couch and watch tv Um, you know how you're feeling in that moment, too.

Kristen:

How can I help out?

Kristen:

How can I step up?

Kristen:

And what can we do together?

Kristen:

So Our, our marriage has definitely shifted and changed, and I really am

Kristen:

enjoying the phase that we're in now with young toddlers, um, because we are able

Kristen:

to connect with the kids a lot more, and to really, like, just spending that time,

Kristen:

that family time, after, after they have a bath, we play up in our loft area.

Kristen:

And to see my husband, you know, acting goofy, and, you know, cuddling

Kristen:

with my kids, and that sort of stuff.

Kristen:

That is something that I didn't anticipate just really, um, you know, having,

Kristen:

like, giving me the warm and fuzzies.

Kristen:

Like, oh, you know what?

Kristen:

This is what it's all worth.

Kristen:

This is what this hellish year has all been worth.

Kristen:

Right here, right now.

Kristen:

It's the little moments and it's those things where I see him kiss my son on the

Kristen:

forehead and then grab him in a bear hug and they both giggle and laugh together

Kristen:

like that has really been incredible.

Kristen:

Um, but I also want to acknowledge that, um, like Sarah, I've had many

Kristen:

friends have babies over the last year, either their first one or multiple.

Kristen:

kids to their family.

Kristen:

And a lot of times, um, we don't often talk about how motherhood and

Kristen:

parenthood changes our marriages.

Kristen:

And it's something that I think It can be a huge challenge if it's not, you know,

Kristen:

going in a positive direction for you.

Kristen:

Um, and I've certainly had some conversations with some

Kristen:

really close friends that are really struggling right now.

Kristen:

And that is a hard thing, and it's not just, yes, becoming a parent,

Kristen:

but becoming a part of a family unit.

Kristen:

Um, your relationship does change and you, you again, can't anticipate how

Kristen:

it will, um, but as women, you know, we tend to just kind of, um, put everybody

Kristen:

else first again and, and set that aside.

Kristen:

And so it is something that I'm really appreciate that both of you,

Kristen:

you know, brought this up in the conversation that we can talk about

Kristen:

this because it is an important part.

Kristen:

And, you know, we.

Kristen:

We started a family for a reason because we love each other.

Kristen:

So is that love still there?

Kristen:

And, and trying to nurture that and know what's good for you and your family

Kristen:

is, um, is something that often can get lost in just the chaos of, of this

Kristen:

whole first year and, and beyond that.

Sarah:

Kristen, one thing I want to add, because when you were talking

Sarah:

about that, it made me remember, like, I, we were talking about grieving our

Sarah:

old selves, and I feel like I also grieved our old relationship, in,

Kristen:

in the relationship itself, but also, like, I

Sarah:

was his only priority and now I'm not and that feels so selfish,

Sarah:

but that's really how I felt,

Kristen:

you know, and not that I was like, jealous of my child for

Sarah:

taking up love and attention, but also like, it was just a weird thing to

Sarah:

suddenly have to share, you know, and I think that, um, When you, like, have big

Sarah:

changes like that, like, like I was able to tell Zach that, you know what I mean?

Sarah:

But sometimes, it took me a while to even realize that that's what I was feeling.

Sarah:

And so, I feel like if you, if that kind of sneaks up on you or you're not

Sarah:

able to verbalize it in a way that you

Kristen:

can get it off your chest and your partner can actually understand

Sarah:

and do something about it, I feel like that can eat, eat away

Sarah:

at a relationship really quickly.

Caite:

Sarah, I find it interesting because I feel like I felt the reverse of

Caite:

that when our first child was born because for nine months she had just been mine.

Caite:

It was just me and her.

Caite:

And having to share her and have it, I don't know that I've ever felt that

Caite:

lonely in my life as that transition from being able to literally feel her inside

Caite:

my body 24 hours a day to her just Being out doing her own thing, you know, and

Caite:

I mean now she's six, so she's actually like out doing stuff, but just that she

Caite:

could do something without me and just like, and it's weird to be like, that's

Caite:

my baby, give it back, but also like, coupled with the anxiety, then to have

Caite:

this feeling of like, I am the only person who's known her this whole time.

Caite:

And now I just have to share her with, like, the rest of you?

Caite:

Like, no, get your own.

Caite:

Make your own damn

Arlene:

baby.

Arlene:

I guess that's where Kristen has the advantage.

Arlene:

She had two, so she could hold on to one and give the other one.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Who's being better behaved right now?

Arlene:

I'll take that one.

Caite:

That's the one I want.

Kristen:

Absolutely.

Kristen:

That 100%.

Kristen:

I, I've always said throughout this last year, I love my kids,

Kristen:

but I don't always like them.

Kristen:

And whoever I like less in that moment goes to somebody else.

Kristen:

But Katie, I also really felt that as well after the kids and

Kristen:

even, even more recently too.

Kristen:

Um, Kind of like a possessiveness over my kids.

Kristen:

Like I was very like, no, these are my children.

Kristen:

And like, and it's not that I don't want them to, you know, um, make

Kristen:

connections with other people and to, you know, have their own relationships

Kristen:

with my family and that kind of stuff.

Kristen:

But it was almost like I caught myself a couple times and I can't

Kristen:

think of a specific instance right now, but I would just feel this

Kristen:

overwhelming, like that's my baby.

Kristen:

And it was.

Kristen:

with people who were very close to me in my life and I'm like, Nuh uh,

Kristen:

like you, this is mine, give it back.

Kristen:

And I, like, I just wanted to, like, keep them for myself.

Kristen:

And it was such a weird feeling because coupled with that, I didn't really feel

Kristen:

that super, super strong maternalistic, like, loving, absolutely everything.

Kristen:

Um, idea of, yeah, of my kids.

Kristen:

And so that was a, I, I felt that too, and I didn't know how, how to understand

Kristen:

it until I talked with it about my therapist and surprise, childhood trauma.

Kristen:

Um, that kind of stuff starts to come back up.

Kristen:

And so part of, part of me, yeah, really felt that strongly as well.

Kristen:

And I'm still working through it.

Kristen:

It's

Caite:

for me when I was really pregnant with our son.

Caite:

And I kept getting told that I was imagining it, and then we

Caite:

caught it on ultrasound, but my son would practice breathe.

Caite:

And he would be far enough up under my diaphragm that I could

Caite:

feel him breathing inside my body.

Caite:

And like, to be that, literally that close to another person, and then

Caite:

to just let other people share them?

Caite:

No!

Caite:

Which brings me to my next question.

Caite:

Kristen, I know that you had said that you have paid child care now, and I

Caite:

think Sarah does not, is that correct?

Caite:

Um, and Sarah, what you were saying about feeling beholden to people

Caite:

if they're, you know, doing you favors by helping with stuff.

Caite:

Um, Kristen, once I've gotten past the worst of the sobbing every time

Caite:

I leave my kids with someone because why should I have to share them?

Caite:

Um It's fucking amazing to leave your kids With somebody who's paid to watch

Caite:

them because I don't feel bad about it at all They're getting paid to watch them.

Caite:

This is literally their job And it's such a sense of freedom once you get past the

Caite:

mommy guilt about how they're probably gonna spend all day crying and they're

Caite:

probably gonna die and God knows what else horrible things are happening that you

Caite:

can just go do your shit and like not have to worry about it and it's incredible.

Caite:

So I'm wondering how that Sarah's like, I'm gonna write

Caite:

down the names of some daycares.

Caite:

Daycare's fucking expensive, but worth it.

Caite:

I'm wondering how that transition has been for you.

Caite:

And Arlene, were your kids ever in And paid trial.

Caite:

Second,

Arlene:

third, fourth, besides, like I did, I mean, I guess school kind

Arlene:

created a preschool program for them.

Arlene:

We don't really have preschool here, but I found a daycare that would take them

Arlene:

a, you know, like one or two days a week, the year before they started kindergarten.

Arlene:

But for the most part, no.

Arlene:

I was a stay at home parent for, well, I guess our taxes are paying for it.

Arlene:

Um, the, my oldest, no, my second.

Arlene:

All of their first years, but our kids start school earlier

Arlene:

than than yours do to our.

Caite:

And I'm.

Arlene:

We're starting school at three and a half.

Arlene:

So, well, depending on their birthdates, but yeah, ours were

Arlene:

ours were in kindergarten at three

Caite:

and a half.

Caite:

Absolutely not negating being a stay at home parent, either, but as

Caite:

someone who is trying to work with.

Caite:

You know, work

Arlene:

off farm a very near And I mean, there, I was, it was a choice to be a

Arlene:

state owned parent, and I was, at that time, not working on the farm, or a very

Arlene:

small amount, and when, uh, for the most part, my job was caring for our kids.

Arlene:

I wasn't trying to do that, and I give lots of credit to the

Arlene:

people who are doing that, too.

Arlene:

I mean, there's, there's lots of ways to.

Arlene:

Look after our kids and paid childcare is a great option.

Arlene:

Perform a full time job and look after kids at the same time.

Arlene:

And I know that there are families who are doing...

Arlene:

So, I think Katie's question was, How are you feeling about the daycare transition?

Arlene:

At this stage, Kristen, or how is that going?

Kristen:

The house is quiet and it is fabulous.

Kristen:

And I, I am thankful I'm in a place now where I do not feel an inch of guilt

Kristen:

in saying that because, um, yeah, the transition itself, I definitely First of

Kristen:

all, we were very fortunate, um, to find paid childcare, um, in Ontario right now.

Kristen:

It is very difficult, and I know in lots of other areas, it is very

Kristen:

difficult to even find childcare.

Kristen:

Um, and I made the mistake of, you know, oh, we'll just figure it out.

Kristen:

Uh, once I've done school, and when I, uh, when I decide to go to school.

Kristen:

And two, exactly.

Kristen:

And I'm like, there is no frickin way I am driving one to

Kristen:

one daycare and one to another.

Kristen:

And so I needed to find two spots at the same time.

Kristen:

Um, location, uh, to care for my children and basically give them all

Kristen:

of our money that we'll ever earn.

Kristen:

And so, um, yes, we are very fortunate to have found a provider.

Kristen:

All of our licensed, um, programs, they, I think they basically

Kristen:

laugh at you now to be like, Ha!

Kristen:

You think you're good?

Kristen:

The one was, um, it was a year and a half, uh, wait time, um, to, to get in.

Kristen:

And I think that's actually on the shorter side, unfortunately.

Kristen:

So, um, I was a little bit behind the eight ball, but, uh, we have found

Kristen:

a provider, uh, for the twins, who, honestly, I am so incredibly thankful for.

Kristen:

Uh, she is fantastic.

Kristen:

And I have to say, I was a little...

Kristen:

Bit freaked out before going, uh, to daycare and starting that transition.

Kristen:

Cause I had heard, um, some horror stories from really close friends about

Kristen:

how, you know, their kids just like.

Kristen:

Really struggled sleep was an issue.

Kristen:

Everything came back up.

Kristen:

It was just like nightmarish.

Kristen:

And so going into it, um, we did a little bit of a transition with our

Kristen:

provider where we started out kind of like on a part time basis, but

Kristen:

paying full time for the first month.

Kristen:

So that was fun.

Kristen:

Um, but, uh, just to kind of work the kids up to it because again, they've

Kristen:

spent this whole first year with, you know, us as their primary caregivers and.

Kristen:

Yeah.

Kristen:

They'd had a couple, you know, sleepovers at my parents and whatnot,

Kristen:

but pretty much with us most of the time, um, so let alone a stranger.

Kristen:

So we brought them to daycare kind of one day, one week, two

Kristen:

days the next, and yada, yada, yada, and so they've transitioned,

Kristen:

uh, to full time care right now.

Kristen:

Um, drop off is an absolute shitshow, huge tears, big emotions all the time.

Kristen:

Even to the point now, we only live about, it's about a seven minute drive, thank

Kristen:

God, from our house to, uh, our provider.

Kristen:

Um, but now when I put my daughter in her car seat, she starts to

Kristen:

do the little sniffle and I'm like, Ellie, don't you dare.

Kristen:

So, we pump the music, we, you know, sing songs on this, on our seven minute drive

Kristen:

to kind of like, get them all excited.

Kristen:

And then I drop them off there, they scream their heads off and I leave.

Kristen:

And, um, yeah, it's been, um, very good for myself, um, to have that break.

Kristen:

And I didn't really...

Kristen:

really anticipate how good it would feel.

Kristen:

Um, because up until then it was typically, you know, people would come

Kristen:

over and they'd watch the kids at the house and I would still be doing stuff.

Kristen:

So they were always within the vicinity, right?

Kristen:

Like I always could still hear them or I'd be, yeah, run out to the grocery

Kristen:

store, do some errands, and then come home and they're still here.

Kristen:

But actually being home without them here is like, The best treat ever.

Kristen:

So.

Kristen:

And it just feels like it's grown up time.

Caite:

Kristen, as a mom who works from home and has two kids who come home from

Caite:

daycare, Do you find that your anxiety spikes when the noise level goes back

Caite:

through the roof or are your kids not, I mean, two of them at a year old, I assume

Caite:

they're pretty damn loud by now, right?

Caite:

Because it took me the longest time to figure out why my anxiety went through

Caite:

the roof at five o'clock every night.

Caite:

And it's, yeah.

Caite:

Have you found any routines or anything that have made that transition easier?

Sarah:

Yeah.

Sarah:

I'm legit asking for myself

Caite:

at this point.

Caite:

I definitely feel that.

Caite:

Because I'm still not really figured this out.

Caite:

And it's...

Arlene:

Yeah,

Kristen:

yeah.

Kristen:

It is, it's hard to go from that, yeah, kind of like grown up quiet time to

Kristen:

just like all out chaos in like the matter of a open the door and brrm, here

Kristen:

they are, um, little hurricanes, um.

Kristen:

The, what I've started doing, so my husband does pick up, um, at night,

Kristen:

and, um, first of all, I send a snack with him in the car so that they're not

Kristen:

hungry little gremlins when they get home because I don't know how much they've

Kristen:

eaten throughout the day, like, you know, I can't control that, so I make

Kristen:

sure they have a snack so they're not hangry when they get home, um, and, um,

Kristen:

typically around that time I'm starting to kind of prep dinner, so I'm downstairs

Kristen:

in our kitchen and living room area, and what I do Is just to kind of start

Kristen:

to acclimatize myself to the volume as I turn the tv on and I just have like

Kristen:

something playing in The background or turn the radio on and just kind of like

Kristen:

try to like be moving around and whatnot and prepare myself Like okay, the kids

Kristen:

are coming home uh, and you know just kind of like Start to increase the volume

Kristen:

level so that when they do come in, it's not like brrrr, like zero to a hundred

Kristen:

all in the matter of like a few seconds.

Kristen:

Um, because it, that was a transition, especially before

Kristen:

I figured out the snack trick.

Kristen:

Um, was that they would come home and they would sit on the kitchen

Kristen:

floor and just like scream and I'm like, Did you have a bad day?

Kristen:

Are you hurt?

Kristen:

Like, what's going on?

Kristen:

Like, can I help you?

Kristen:

Meanwhile, I've got like hot supper on the oven, like on the stovetop trying

Kristen:

to figure that out and two screaming kids and my husband's You know bringing

Kristen:

in all their shit from the day and I'm just like, oh my god, what is going on?

Kristen:

That took a little bit of, you know, understanding like,

Kristen:

oh, okay, you're hungry.

Kristen:

Like, let's just make sure your basic needs are met Okay, let's, yeah, once

Kristen:

we got that covered Um, that was okay.

Kristen:

And we also, so my kids are still young enough now, um, that they do nap twice

Kristen:

a day still, so, um, I've also found it, um, if I don't know how they've napped

Kristen:

through the day, I don't know how to structure our nighttime routine, uh, to

Kristen:

make sure that they're not overtired.

Kristen:

And so, Sleep for me, throughout the whole twin, like throughout,

Kristen:

since the twins were born, um, sleep has been a priority for them.

Kristen:

Like, if they're not sleeping well, um, you know, figuring out their wake

Kristen:

windows and all of that was really, um, something that I had no idea

Kristen:

about before becoming a mom, but, uh, quickly read all of the, the blogs

Kristen:

and the, the experts advice and stuff.

Kristen:

And so, Part of managing my anxiety is understanding how their day

Kristen:

has gone, have they had enough rest, have they eaten enough.

Kristen:

Um, and then I can kind of tweak that nighttime routine to try to make it as

Kristen:

enjoyable as possible for all of us.

Kristen:

Because I don't want to deal with, you know, little gremlins at night

Kristen:

because that just sets me off

Caite:

too.

Caite:

The other thing I've found that has been a huge help is those loop earplugs that

Caite:

just decrease the decibels by quite a bit.

Caite:

So, Because especially our kids still tend to take baths

Caite:

together, which is great, you know.

Caite:

And yes, they're a boy and a girl, but they're little.

Caite:

They don't care.

Caite:

Um, but we have a very small bathroom.

Caite:

And when they start screaming in there, it is...

Caite:

just

Caite:

noping out.

Caite:

And so the, the earplugs, huge.

Caite:

Um, Sarah, real quick.

Caite:

It says that Riverside, you have other tabs open with Riverside in them.

Caite:

It just wants you to, it just wants you to close other tabs.

Caite:

Ah, well, I guess I wouldn't worry about it then.

Caite:

If it wants something, it'll figure it out later.

Caite:

Whatever.

Caite:

It's fine.

Caite:

Yeah, I don't know how...

Caite:

I still have her.

Sarah:

I can't find the

Caite:

other tab.

Caite:

Maybe you're in her other tab, Arlene.

Caite:

Okay, so.

Caite:

I'm sorry.

Caite:

Oh, so Sarah, we did a baby shower episode with you.

Caite:

Was any of what we said helpful?

Caite:

And feel free to tell us no if it wasn't.

Caite:

Like, I'd rather not give people terrible advice.

Kristen:

Yes.

Arlene:

No, a lot of it.

Sarah:

A lot of it was super helpful.

Sarah:

So, um, we had talked about, like, baby wearing.

Sarah:

That was really helpful.

Sarah:

Um, and either, like, stick to a schedule or read their cues.

Sarah:

Kind of do both and figure out what works for you.

Sarah:

And so, I, um, kind of, like, watched her cues and then that

Sarah:

quickly worked into a pattern.

Sarah:

So, I...

Kristen:

Like to say,

Sarah:

like, I'm not a schedule person, but we have a rhythm to our day, and

Sarah:

it's pretty consistent day to day.

Sarah:

Um, with that being said, also, like, doing a few different things every once

Sarah:

in a while has been really helpful, too, because then, like, if she skips

Sarah:

a nap, we skip a meal, we eat early, we eat late, it's kind of no big deal.

Sarah:

She's good with some change, and I think that that's good, too, because, um...

Sarah:

My, my sister is one who like hates a change in the schedule and like, I

Sarah:

need kids who are going to be flexible.

Sarah:

So, um, that was really good advice.

Sarah:

Um, somebody had said, um, uh, to keep your vacuum

Kristen:

in the living room.

Kristen:

Then you can say, Oh, it's just going to vacuum.

Sarah:

That is solid.

Sarah:

solid advice.

Sarah:

Um, crabs need water, right?

Sarah:

Like

Kristen:

if they're crabby, take them outside or put them in the bathtub.

Kristen:

Still do that.

Sarah:

That is that is a great, great advice.

Sarah:

Um, somebody said to give them

Kristen:

a bottle every once in a while.

Sarah:

So that way they will, um, take a bottle like when you have to leave.

Sarah:

And that was again really helpful.

Sarah:

I started Leaving her, um, just for like a couple hours at a time pretty early.

Sarah:

And so that was really helpful too.

Sarah:

Then she would take a bottle and, um, that turned out to be really,

Sarah:

really great because then there was no like hesitation for her.

Sarah:

Um, also I tried, I kind of got her.

Sarah:

on like one different kind of bottle, but then switch.

Sarah:

So she would take like multiple different, um, types of bottles,

Sarah:

nipples, temperature of milk, which was really helpful to just to get her used

Sarah:

to a little bit of change in variety.

Sarah:

So, um, yeah, that was, there was a

Kristen:

lot of great advice in there.

Kristen:

A lot

Sarah:

of helpful, helpful tidbits.

Sarah:

Of course.

Sarah:

No, all the time.

Sarah:

You

Caite:

saw all the time.

Caite:

I'm glad that we said something useful.

Caite:

Or that other people said something useful, I guess.

Caite:

I know, you know, I mean, there are kids who are less able to hang, just like

Caite:

there are adults who are less flexible, but I do think that anything you can do

Caite:

to encourage any and all members of your family to be even slightly more chill.

Caite:

than they are naturally, as someone who is not chill by nature, um, is helpful.

Caite:

So, for both of you, what's been the best part so far?

Caite:

I

Sarah:

think watching her discover new things is so much fun.

Sarah:

So much fun.

Sarah:

Like, just like, the first time I put her in the grass, it was like, warm, the

Sarah:

snow had melted, and watching her like, discover grass, and Sunshine, not like

Sarah:

discover sunshine, but like just feel like

Kristen:

warmth outside and

Sarah:

discover grass and like look at flowers.

Kristen:

I took her to the butterfly

Sarah:

house and like just to watch her amazement looking at all the

Sarah:

butterflies is really, really cool.

Sarah:

And I remind myself often that like I have to slow down in order to catch

Sarah:

those moments, but it's so worth it.

Sarah:

So do it.

Sarah:

Slow down, catch those moments, and be sure to keep that a priority,

Sarah:

because there might be 400 million in a day, and that can get annoying,

Sarah:

but also, um, you know, I think that that is, that's what it's all about.

Sarah:

And so that's been really my favorite

Kristen:

part, I think.

Kristen:

Amazing.

Kristen:

Yeah, I guess for me, um, having the twins, um, you know, I, I joked earlier

Kristen:

on, uh, that it's a bit of a psychology experiment having two kids at once.

Kristen:

Um, but really watching their bond, um, has been something that's been

Kristen:

really special for me as a mom.

Kristen:

Um, and also as someone who grew up with a big family.

Kristen:

Um, this is the end of our family.

Kristen:

We are not planning to have any more kids.

Kristen:

Um, we're, you know, one in, one and done, one pregnancy and two kids and done.

Kristen:

Um, but really watching them, um, kind of discover each other, see

Kristen:

their differences at the same time.

Kristen:

And then getting to be a kid again, like getting to play.

Kristen:

I think as adults, we don't, you know, you, you reach a certain age and you

Kristen:

just kind of, you know, you don't get that childish, um, excitement

Kristen:

anymore in life and you just are so focused on the realities of life

Kristen:

because yes, we have to be, but.

Kristen:

You know, the times when we just get to play with our kids and sometimes,

Kristen:

you know, going to the park.

Kristen:

Um, we went to the park on the weekend and as a kid that was not something on the

Kristen:

farm that we ever did because we stayed on the farm because there was work to do,

Kristen:

you could play on the farm, you did that.

Kristen:

Um, but just really, you know, getting to go to a park with your kids,

Kristen:

um, that's something that's really special that I didn't anticipate but

Kristen:

that really are those small moments that Sarah said that happened so

Kristen:

many times in a day that pausing and just Feeling that gratitude and that

Kristen:

gratefulness has really given me a lot of, of good feelings about parenting.

Arlene:

I find the unmute on this program takes so much longer.

Arlene:

Anyway, so I'm stealing Katie's usual question, but I switched it up since

Arlene:

we already asked both of you what you would dominate at the county fair.

Arlene:

I'm now going to ask, say it's like the baby show or, you

Arlene:

know, like the junior category.

Arlene:

Sarah, what would your baby dominate at the county fair?

Sarah:

Um, 100 percent a cat show, okay?

Sarah:

This kid loves a cat.

Sarah:

And I remember my sister showed a cat at the county fair, and we

Sarah:

were all kind of like, how do you show a cat, like, what is this all

Kristen:

about?

Kristen:

And you like, Pet its fur backward, pet its fur, er, pet its fur the right

Kristen:

way, pet its fur the wrong way, stretch out its belly, stretch out its tail.

Kristen:

Scout's got that dumb pat.

Kristen:

Like, her and the cat just cuddle and snuggle, and she's

Kristen:

constantly, like, messing up its fur and then petting it back down.

Kristen:

Messing up its fur, petting

Sarah:

it back down.

Sarah:

So, um, she would, she would be the cat show, cat show girl.

Sarah:

Not sure, uh,

Kristen:

she would be very good

Sarah:

at the cat show, um, but she's...

Kristen:

All about, all

Arlene:

about the cat.

Arlene:

That is great.

Arlene:

And then she'd be around other cats, too, so she'd be in her glory.

Arlene:

Yeah, 100%.

Arlene:

So, Kristen, what are your, what are your babies going to, uh, dominate?

Kristen:

Yeah, so the twins, um, they're both very, very different.

Kristen:

So being a boy and a girl, it's amazing how you can start to see the

Kristen:

differences in gender so early on, um, with like very little input, right?

Kristen:

Like I, that's something that's also kind of amazed me.

Kristen:

Um, but for Ellie, for our girl, um, she is just the spiciest little thing in life.

Kristen:

And so I think she would just.

Kristen:

Yeah, she's got lots of attitude, um, is not afraid to just like

Kristen:

let all of her emotions out.

Kristen:

Um, so definitely if there was a category, a 4 H category for

Kristen:

spiciness, I think that's her to a T.

Kristen:

Um, and I really hope, um, being a woman, That she takes that with her in

Kristen:

life and that it does not get muted in life because I know so many times We are

Kristen:

influenced by society and all of those pressures as women um that If I do one

Kristen:

thing right as a mother, I hope that I foster and nurture that characteristic

Kristen:

within her Um, our little boy Knox.

Kristen:

He is just such a little tinkerer and curious mind Very similar

Kristen:

to my husband, uh in that way.

Kristen:

And so I can just see him like He's just so interested in how things are, you

Kristen:

know, how things work, and figuring it out, and taking things apart, and putting

Kristen:

it back together, and you can kind of just see like the little gears working

Kristen:

in his, in his brain, and so whatever that, you know, that Um, I'm just like,

Kristen:

Manifest in him in terms of his passions and his, uh, and his, uh, desires in life.

Kristen:

I hope that that kind of takes him forward.

Kristen:

Um, and as parents, we, my husband and I, talk a lot about, um, trying

Kristen:

not to impose, you know, our love and hobbies and whatnot onto our children.

Kristen:

And I think, In agriculture, you know, we want our kids to be like, Oh, we want

Kristen:

them to farm and all of this so much.

Kristen:

So, um, but, we really, we talk very openly about trying to give

Kristen:

them other experiences other than, you know, what we want them to do.

Kristen:

Um, and so, as a parent, I just really hope to Um, and to facilitate

Kristen:

that and to, to let them grow and find their own passions in life.

Kristen:

That's a

Arlene:

hard one, right?

Arlene:

Because it's like, oh, they're so cute and they would be so cute

Arlene:

doing this thing that I love and then we could enjoy it together.

Arlene:

But yeah, fostering what they really love too is a hard balance as they get older.

Arlene:

Um, before I move into our cussing and discussing section, I just didn't know

Arlene:

if either of you had any other, um, Reflections on listening back to your

Arlene:

episodes or things that you, uh, laughed at yourself for saying, or anything

Arlene:

else you wanted to comment on before we move into the, to wrapping up the show.

Arlene:

Sarah, was there anything?

Arlene:

The

Sarah:

only thing is, I think that it remains important to laugh at ourselves

Sarah:

and how we thought things would be.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Kristen:

I would definitely, yeah, echo that.

Kristen:

Absolutely.

Kristen:

You know, you think things are going to go one way and if becoming a

Kristen:

parent has taught you anything, it's going to be the complete 180 to that.

Kristen:

I would absolutely echo your sentiments there, Sarah.

Arlene:

And I, I even, uh, I didn't include it with the questions here

Arlene:

because we've been, we've been talking a lot, but there was, I quoted

Arlene:

Katie, I think it was in Kristen's episode saying, nothing will go how

Arlene:

you expected, but it'll all be fine.

Arlene:

So that's kind of the summary of today, right?

Arlene:

Nothing went exactly as you expected, but it was.

Arlene:

It was still fine.

Arlene:

So we'll go into our usual Cussing and Discussing segment.

Arlene:

So for listeners, if you want to submit yours, go to the show notes and go to

Arlene:

our speak pipe or the email, and you can send us your Cussing and Discussing.

Arlene:

Katie, do you want to start?

Arlene:

What's your Cussing and Discussing for today?

Caite:

I will, and this is actually my parenting advice for you guys for the

Caite:

next, well until next year when we do this again and talk about all the things

Caite:

that have been bizarre in the last year.

Caite:

Second year.

Caite:

There will come a day.

Caite:

Yeah, there will come a day when you will have the perfect gift for your

Caite:

child, or the perfect experience.

Caite:

You will have come up with something that is like the manifestation

Caite:

of everything that is right and good in your child's world.

Caite:

And you will be so excited, and you will give it to them.

Caite:

And they will not give a flying fuck.

Caite:

About whatever this thing is.

Caite:

No matter how I could bring home a live unicorn at this point and feel

Caite:

fairly sure that the girl child would go, I wanted a pink one.

Caite:

And it's not even being bratty, which is what I grew up thinking it was.

Caite:

But that they have such a strong mind about what is the right thing

Caite:

to do and the right way to do it.

Caite:

The Any deviation from that just, it's close but it's not good enough.

Caite:

And I know like we all joke about kids playing with the box instead

Caite:

of with the toy and that's, that's like the first step.

Caite:

But then they will just, I'm trying to remember what it was that I brought

Caite:

one of the kids last week, just so sure that it would like, lead to a

Caite:

tearful meltdown of gratitude for my bringing them into a world so perfect

Caite:

that this this experience would exist in it and my kid was just like oh

Arlene:

Yeah, or you take them, yeah, you take them somewhere

Arlene:

and they've had a fantastic day, but they drop their ice cream and

Arlene:

that's the only thing they remember.

Arlene:

Like you've, you had, you had almost the perfect experience, even if,

Arlene:

you know, you brought them somewhere and it was, it was the thing you had

Arlene:

the experience you wanted, but the only thing they remember is that bad

Arlene:

moment where they dropped something or somebody stepped on their toe or, you

Arlene:

know, the, the animal at the zoo that they wanted to see turn the wrong way.

Arlene:

And it's.

Arlene:

It's like, could we, like, can we focus on the other things,

Arlene:

but, but sometimes we as adults

Caite:

do the same, I think a lot of my, my cussing about it is that

Caite:

it brings out the most, there are starving children in Africa who would

Caite:

love to have this toy unicorn thing in myself, you know, that's just like, I

Arlene:

know better than you.

Arlene:

Yeah, because that doesn't make

Caite:

them feel more grateful.

Caite:

No, it just makes them mad.

Caite:

Which...

Caite:

Anyway, um, Sarah, what do you have to discuss

Sarah:

this week?

Sarah:

There is something getting into my chicken coop, and I don't know what it is.

Sarah:

They have killed 11 chickens over the last 3 days, and I keep, like,

Sarah:

fortifying it more and more every day.

Sarah:

And every day there's just more dead chickens, and it just, I just don't know

Sarah:

what to do, and I can't figure out how they're getting in, and I just want to,

Sarah:

like, hook up a 12 volt battery to the...

Sarah:

I don't know, I don't, for the life of me, cannot figure out what to do.

Sarah:

We've put cameras up, the cameras don't catch anything, and we have like

Sarah:

green kind of around the chicken coop, so the cameras can't actually see

Sarah:

into the chicken coop, so I think I need to move my cameras, but uh, it's

Sarah:

something weird, I don't know what it is.

Sarah:

We, I thought it was a big raccoon underneath of it, underneath, like, the

Sarah:

house that could go up into the run.

Sarah:

Um, but I blocked that off and I still have dead chickens, so I don't know.

Sarah:

I don't know what it

Kristen:

is and it's

Sarah:

driving me crazy!

Caite:

What, uh, what kind of damage are they doing, Sarah?

Caite:

So,

Sarah:

sometimes the heads are ripped off and sometimes not.

Sarah:

Sometimes the guts are eaten out and sometimes not.

Sarah:

They're sometimes ripped apart.

Sarah:

Um, like...

Sarah:

Leg over here, body over here, but not always.

Sarah:

Um, they have eaten, um, quite a bit of the meat.

Sarah:

But then also, like, I have probably close to 15 that I just

Sarah:

have no idea where they're at.

Sarah:

So that made me think that they're pulling it under the

Sarah:

coop, that I, like, can't get to.

Sarah:

So, yesterday we put a smoke bomb under the coop, and like...

Sarah:

Nothing came out.

Sarah:

So, then I fenced in underneath the coop and put rocks all the way around it.

Sarah:

So, like, if there's something getting in under there, like,

Sarah:

they're stuck under there now.

Sarah:

But then there were still dead ones this morning.

Sarah:

So, I don't know.

Sarah:

We caught a raccoon and a possum in the last two days.

Sarah:

Or, like, two days ago and three days ago, but then this morning

Sarah:

there were still dead ones.

Sarah:

So, like, there's something

Kristen:

else.

Kristen:

Something else going on in there.

Caite:

So, here's my, my three thoughts on this.

Caite:

This has just become an advice segment instead.

Caite:

One, I was having a similar issue.

Caite:

I put those long electric fence insulators, those like four inch ones,

Caite:

with wire about six inches off the ground and hooked it up to a two mile battery.

Caite:

Uh, that'll slow down anything bigger by a lot.

Caite:

Two, it's entirely possible that you have a weasel that's killing them

Caite:

and a raccoon that's eating them.

Caite:

Um.

Caite:

Because weasels can get in anywhere, but raccoons do a lot more physical damage.

Caite:

And three, join the Barnyard Language Facebook group.

Caite:

And go ask Ryan Marquart because Ryan will tell you more about ways that chickens

Caite:

can die than you ever wanted to know.

Caite:

He's a high school friend who has apparently made quite a study

Caite:

of things that kill chickens and he has excellent advice.

Caite:

And for anyone else who, uh, needs advice on dead chickens.

Caite:

Or parenting.

Caite:

Or really anything else.

Caite:

You should also go to a chicken stand parent.

Caite:

Or parenting.

Sarah:

I will do all three of those.

Sarah:

So, thank you, Katie, for that.

Sarah:

Tidbit of knowledge.

Sarah:

Interesting that it could be two things.

Sarah:

Because, yeah, sometimes the heads are off.

Sarah:

So that made me think it was like a weasel or a mink or something like that.

Sarah:

Um, but not always, you know.

Arlene:

So, Kristen, do you have any non chicken related questions?

Arlene:

I

Kristen:

do.

Kristen:

We do not own any chickens.

Kristen:

Um, but, uh.

Kristen:

We are battling the, um, onset of another teething phase with the twins.

Kristen:

So that has been a fucking nightmare.

Kristen:

We went through a really good So my son has eight teeth, and my daughter has six,

Kristen:

and now she's gotten some more bottom ones, and I'm like, oh my fucking god.

Kristen:

Yeah, she is I say I love her spiciness, but it's also, like, can be, like I

Kristen:

don't want to call her dramatic because I don't like that, um, descriptor of women,

Kristen:

but she like, you know, notches it up.

Kristen:

She lets

Arlene:

you know how she feels, yeah.

Kristen:

Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Kristen:

Which, I mean, in all fairness...

Kristen:

Getting teeth is not a fun thing for anybody.

Kristen:

Like, I do not blame her for that.

Kristen:

She did not choose to not be born with teeth and then get them,

Kristen:

you know, pushed into her mouth.

Kristen:

Um, whoever decided that this was how kids should have, should get teeth and

Kristen:

then fall out and then get some more, I really want to set up a meeting with

Kristen:

them and have, have a little discussion.

Kristen:

Um, because it is just a nightmare for everyone.

Kristen:

There's so

Arlene:

much drama about, around teeth for so many years.

Arlene:

Because then they finally get them all and then they start to lose them and then

Arlene:

there's all the drama of like, Oh, well, I can't eat because I have a wiggly tooth.

Arlene:

No, you can't brush my teeth because I have a wiggly tooth.

Arlene:

And then I lost my tooth and the Tooth Fairy forgot three nights in a row.

Kristen:

Which is the finest.

Kristen:

Yeah, and then, like, God forbid,

Caite:

like.

Caite:

Our Tooth Fairy finally just bought toys, Arlene.

Caite:

The Tooth Fairy said, I don't want you to have to hold on to this loose

Caite:

money, so I'm just gonna buy some toys and that'll be your Tooth Fairy money.

Caite:

So

Arlene:

like one toy and then they're done for all the rest of their teeth?

Arlene:

Brilliant.

Arlene:

See, that's

Kristen:

the thing, because the teeth last forever.

Kristen:

I've got

Arlene:

four kids multiplied by however many teeth fall out, right?

Arlene:

So it's just like, you never know when someone's, and as they get older,

Arlene:

they don't always tell you or complain about the loose teeth, which is great.

Arlene:

But then I've got an older kid who loses a tooth and then I still feel

Arlene:

like I need to give them money so that the younger one still believes.

Arlene:

So then it's like, yeah, Oh, by the way, there's a tooth.

Arlene:

I left it on the counter.

Arlene:

I have taken the teeth out of the bedroom.

Arlene:

There's no sneaking into bedrooms.

Arlene:

The teeth in our house go on the, go on the kitchen counter behind

Arlene:

the sink, and that's where the tooth fairy leaves money because

Arlene:

I'm not sneaking into anyone's room.

Kristen:

That is, I'm gonna take that and hide that in my back pocket.

Kristen:

That's smart.

Arlene:

Don't talk about pillows or anything in the bedroom.

Arlene:

Yeah, it doesn't, the tooth fairy can just come right in any part of the house.

Arlene:

Love it.

Arlene:

So, I guess mine is Tooth Fairies, but my other cussing

Arlene:

and disgusting was Oh, sorry.

Caite:

That's alright.

Caite:

You were going to think as much as I hate sneaking into the kids rooms.

Caite:

I feel like this is my secret shame as a big, tough farm mom.

Caite:

I am so grossed out by fingernail clippings, hair clippings, and

Caite:

teeth that the idea of finding teeth on my kitchen counter...

Caite:

I kind of want to die just thinking about it.

Arlene:

I've got one there right now, want to come over?

Arlene:

I don't...

Arlene:

Gah!

Arlene:

She's trying to

Kristen:

make her gag.

Kristen:

You could make it a

Sarah:

bathroom counter or like, uh,

Kristen:

the shop sink or something like that.

Kristen:

There's been gross

Arlene:

things.

Arlene:

Yeah, there's gross things in my kitchen a lot of the time.

Arlene:

So you wouldn't be one of those people that makes that like old,

Arlene:

like, you've seen those like gross pictures of like tooth jewelry,

Arlene:

you know, like that people made.

Arlene:

Now everyone's gagging.

Caite:

I read a, I read a book a few years ago by the same author who wrote Gone

Caite:

Girl that involves dollhouse decorated teeth, and I just Did you stop reading?

Caite:

Yeah!

Caite:

No, see?

Caite:

See, there's not gonna be any, I was probably fine with teeth.

Caite:

That's that.

Kristen:

That's, yeah.

Kristen:

That's gross.

Kristen:

Oh, man.

Kristen:

Well, Katie, I do have a, as as kids, kids on the dairy farm, we used to, when

Kristen:

we were like little tots and uh, would play in like the feed bunk and stuff

Kristen:

like that, we would often find cow teeth.

Kristen:

The cow

Arlene:

teeth.

Arlene:

Yeah.

Arlene:

Bring em to school.

Kristen:

Bring.

Kristen:

We would bring them in the house and my mom would find them and now thinking about

Kristen:

it, it totally, like, grosses me out, but we thought it was the coolest thing

Kristen:

ever because they were massive teeth.

Kristen:

Yeah, they're so big.

Kristen:

Like a dinosaur, but yeah, the thought of it now, if my children do

Kristen:

that, I, that, I am stopping that.

Caite:

I'll say it.

Caite:

I have a shed snake skin in the middle of our dining room table right now.

Caite:

I have a mummified bat in the china cabinet.

Caite:

Like, animal teeth?

Caite:

Fine.

Caite:

It's just humans.

Arlene:

Okay, so, but you can't handle the kid tooth in your

Caite:

kitchen.

Caite:

Humans, man.

Caite:

Humans.

Arlene:

So the one I was actually thinking of during our multi hour long

Arlene:

conversation was that I love doing this podcast because we get to meet so many

Arlene:

amazing people, but we live too far apart and I want this conversation to like

Arlene:

extend over like dinner and maybe a glass of wine and to not have to drive all the

Arlene:

way to Michigan to meet Sarah someday.

Arlene:

But anyway, I just want to thank you both ladies for joining us.

Arlene:

today and for being so open and honest and these are exactly the kinds

Arlene:

of conversations that we wanted to have when we started this podcast.

Arlene:

So thank you for coming back and thank you for supporting us and

Arlene:

building community and being honest about the way the journey is.

Arlene:

going.

Arlene:

And Sarah, do you want to just remind people where they can find you?

Arlene:

Because you also have a podcast that people can listen to.

Arlene:

Absolutely.

Arlene:

First off,

Sarah:

thank you guys for having me.

Sarah:

This has been so much fun.

Sarah:

If you ever are in Michigan, look me up and I'll do the same

Sarah:

if I'm up toward your direction.

Sarah:

Um, so thank you guys.

Sarah:

My podcast is

Kristen:

called throwing wrenches,

Sarah:

mending fences, and you can follow me on social media, Facebook, Instagram,

Sarah:

all the places, um, at the same name.

Sarah:

So throwing wrenches, mending fences.

Sarah:

And again, thank you guys.

Sarah:

This has been so much fun.

Sarah:

And Kristen, it's been fun to

Kristen:

chat about our babes.

Arlene:

Yes.

Arlene:

And, uh, Sarah actually does some pretty funny stuff on TikTok.

Arlene:

I'm not a huge, uh, Katie and I have failed miserably on doing anything on

Arlene:

Tik Tok, um, but Sarah is hilarious.

Arlene:

And so you should definitely follow her there and all the other places.

Arlene:

Um, Kristen, if people want to get in touch with you,

Arlene:

where should they find you?

Arlene:

Yeah,

Kristen:

for sure.

Kristen:

I just also just want to say a huge thank you to both of you.

Kristen:

And also congratulations.

Kristen:

Like.

Kristen:

What an amazing thing that you're continuing to do this.

Kristen:

I think that this is such an amazing community that you've built.

Kristen:

I love, uh, tuning in and connecting with all kinds of diversity.

Kristen:

Like, I think you guys just do such a good job of covering a vast, um, array of

Kristen:

topics and featuring people that really are the stories that need to be heard.

Kristen:

Um, so thank you so much for that and thank you for the

Kristen:

opportunity to join you again.

Kristen:

It's been a pleasure.

Kristen:

Um, I am mostly an Instagram, uh, user these days, uh, so you can find me, just

Kristen:

my name, Kristen Kelderman, um, over there and, um, yeah, just kind of focusing on

Kristen:

mental health, but also sharing some of those parenting struggles along the way

Kristen:

and, uh, some cute pics of my dog as well.

Kristen:

So that's where I am.

Arlene:

Thank you both so much.

Arlene:

This was a great conversation and, uh, yeah, like Katie said, maybe

Arlene:

we'll meet up again in a year.

Caite:

Thank you for joining us on Barnyard Language.

Caite:

If you enjoy the show, we encourage you to support us by becoming a patron.

Caite:

Go to www.

Caite:

patreon.

Caite:

com backslash barnyard language to make a small monthly donation to help

Caite:

cover the costs of making the show.

Arlene:

Please rate and review the podcast and follow the show

Arlene:

so you never miss an episode.

Caite:

You can find us on Facebook, as Barnyard Language

Caite:

and on Twitter we are BarnyardPod.

Caite:

If you want to connect with other farming families, you can join our

Caite:

private Barnyard Language Facebook group.

Arlene:

We are always in search of guests for the podcast.

Arlene:

If you or someone you know would like to chat with us, please get in touch.

Arlene:

We are a proud member of the Positively Farming Media Podcast Network.

Caite:

Thank you for joining us on Barnyard Language.

Caite:

If you enjoy this show, we encourage you to support us by becoming a patron.

Caite:

Go to www.

Caite:

patreon.

Caite:

com backslash barnyard language to make a small monthly donation to help

Caite:

cover the costs of making this show.

Arlene:

Please rate and review the podcast and follow the show so you never miss an

Caite:

episode.

Caite:

You can find us on Facebook, as Barnyard Language and on

Caite:

Twitter we are BarnyardPod.

Caite:

If you want to connect with other farming families, you can join our

Caite:

private Barnyard Language Facebook group.

Arlene:

We are always in search of guests for the podcast.

Arlene:

If you or someone you know would like to chat with us, please get in touch.

Arlene:

We are a proud member of the Positively Farming Media Podcast Network.

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