We often know what we believe and why we believe it... but how do we explain it to the watching world, to our kids when they are young, and to those we love, but haven't submitted to Christ yet? Daniel Trippie, founder of The Center for Christian Thought and Ethics tells us we don't have to sacrifice love or kindness as we explain truth.

In this conversation, Dan Trippie discusses the importance of Christian ethics, the challenges of parenting in today's culture, and the significance of goodness, truth, and beauty in shaping a believer's life. He explores how to engage with the world around us, the role of parents in guiding their children, and the necessity of understanding and participating in politics. Dan shares insights from his experiences in marriage and parenting, emphasizing the sacredness of family work and the need for Christians to present a compelling narrative of hope and redemption.

Come back next week for part 2!

Key Takeaways

1. Christian ethics encourage believers to pursue goodness, truth, and beauty.
2. Navigating the tension between perfectionism and pessimism is crucial for Christians.
3. Goodness, truth, and beauty are foundational to understanding God's character.
4. Parents play a vital role in equipping the next generation to engage with culture.
5. Engaging in politics is essential for Christians to influence society positively.
6. Marriage is a sacred institution that reflects God's design and purpose.
7. The moral furniture of the universe provides a framework for understanding ethics.

Find Daniel on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dan.trippie

Or Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dantrippie/

Learn more about the Center for Christian Thought and Ethics here: https://thinkchristian.com

Find our daily Bible podcast for moms here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dwelling-place-bible-plan-for-busy-moms/id1863449227

They're the joyful agains our children.

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Shout on the swings, the exhausting

agains of cooking and laundry and

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the difficult agains of discipline.

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So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

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So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called to.

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And went to bed believing we are

faithful in what matters most.

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We believe God's word is

the key to untangle from the

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confusion and overwhelm we feel.

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Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

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Stephanie: Today I am so blessed

to be joined by Daniel Trippy.

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He is the president and co-founder of

the Center for Christian Thought and

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Ethics, where they are encouraging

believers to pursue goodness, truth,

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and beauty in their thought life.

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I was so grateful to meet you,

Dan, recently at a conference.

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What stood out most to me is the way that

you winsomely explain your perspective.

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And I know that you have years of

experience in the pulpit, but you're

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a father and a grandfather now.

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Correct.

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Dan: I am.

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Stephanie: I know that it's

on your heart to be equipping

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believers of various generations.

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And I thought, what a blessing

for moms to have your perspective

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on how can we be wisely guiding

our kids and their thought lives?

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How can we be wisely communicating

with the culture around us as well?

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Would you open us in prayer that, whoever

comes across this episode, whether they've

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been in the faith or whether they don't

embrace Jesus Christ yet, but that we

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would communicate in a way that, that the

gospel would be, so appealing to them.

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Dan: Absolutely

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Stephanie: Thank you.

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Dan: Almighty God.

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We come before you with humility.

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Lord, make us humble.

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Lord, you are good and glorious

and beautiful and true.

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And Father, as we engage in a world

that is increasingly confused and

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frustrated, , disoriented Father,

give us your spirit to engage, as

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your ambassadors of love and truth.

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And Father, I pray that, uh, we may

be faithful to give a reasoned answer

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for why we believe what we believe.

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So father, guide our time.

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Uh, may this be a blessing

to your people and Christ.

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Holy name, amen.

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And

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Stephanie: We will get into some

more overarching questions, but

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your book, compelling Ethics

Thinking for a Modern World.

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It's fantastic and it's not a thick

read, but it's so thought provoking.

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It solidifies a lot of things I

already believed, but then you really

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phrase beautifully a lot of truths

that are important for us to cling to.

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But I have to confess, I was reading

through the intro and I just came across

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this one concept and I had to park I

really had to set the book down, but it's

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been ruminating in my mind about this

paragraph could really change the way

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that I live and that I think about life.

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It's such a beautifully written book,

but , I struggle with perfectionism

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in life and I'm just very idealistic,

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I think it guides me to be a prayer

warrior because I understand, I think

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what God's intention was on this earth.

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And I often pray to that end, but

it often makes me disappointed.

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A little example, like, I have this

beautiful advent idea for my kids,

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and we're gonna do this new idea.

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I introduce it and out of the four, that's

the night that one of them decides that

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they're, they're just really having

a hard time embracing something new.

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And you thought it was gonna be

this beautiful moment centered on

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Christ and it turns into a meltdown

and living in the tension, I think,

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especially as a mom where you're trying

to guide your family in a godly way.

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But when you said, that Jesus is

teaching on the wheat and tears helps

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us to set our expectations for this

age, keeping us from the temptation

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of perfectionism or pessimism.

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Therefore, as we seek the conditions of

heaven on earth, we also acknowledge

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the tension that Christian ethics

bring in a world that is not fully

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submitted to Christ Reign at this moment.

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To think Christian is to live

faithfully within this tension.

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I was wondering if you would elaborate

a little bit more on that idea.

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Dan: Yeah, so I'm writing that

in the context that we live in

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a culture where not everybody is

going to believe what we believe.

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We have a civil, pluralism, meaning,

people with multiple different

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beliefs, and there's tensions and

a, and a representative Republican,

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which we live in, where you, and we're

feeling these tensions right now.

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We are really living into them where we

have people who don't understand why we

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hold the Christian beliefs that we do.

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And there can be a temptation to want the

full conditions of heaven now on earth.

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And I call that an over

realized eschatology,

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right Where you want it now.

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And yet it's, it's not here yet.

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So the temptation that we can fall

into is to go, well, I'm going to

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use a means of coercion, to bring

about the conditions of heaven.

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So even, our laws and everything

should be ordered towards

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God's objective, moral reality.

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We still even, , in a nation or a

state where those laws are that way,

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we still have this thing called sin and

its power in the human heart, and the

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human heart and our fallen creation,

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Right?

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That there's still the effects

of sin until Christ return, and

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fully inaugurates the kingdom,

then we have to live with that.

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So on the one hand, as we live

with neighbors that don't believe

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what we believe, we wanna engage,

we wanna persuade, but we also

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have to recognize the Holy Spirit

is the one who changes the heart.

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So at some point, our obligation

with our unbelieving neighbors share

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gospel, be good neighbor love, but then

we have to also settle and realize.

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They may or may not

believe what we believe.

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But in, in the same time, can

be discouraging in a world

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of fallenness, in finitude.

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So we have the hope of the gospel.

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We have the hope of Christ's

return that keeps us, positive.

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It keeps us knowing that we trust and

we wait for the moment of Christ's

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return where the kingdom is fully here.

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And sin no longer has any

influence on this kingdom

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Stephanie: Right.

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And if he is patient to live in that

tension, knowing that this is the

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plan that will bring him the most

glory, then we can join him in that,

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Dan: yeah, I think there's, it is

an interesting thing, right in the

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prayer, the Lord's prayer when he

says, thy kingdom come, thy will be

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done on earth as it is in heaven.

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There seems to be, a incremental,

sanctification, right?

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It's, that's implied

in some of that, right?

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The kingdom is not fully here yet,

but He redeems us and then we are

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continually growing to be more like

him, but he seems, he seems to be okay

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with our incremental sanctification.

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Stephanie: right.

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Okay.

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Talk to our listeners a little bit

about why we need to embrace truth,

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beauty, and goodness, and what each of

those bring to the table for believers.

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Dan: Yeah.

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Well, so all of those, right?

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They flow from God's being.

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And so, we'll start first

with goodness, right?

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Goodness is not just.

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What God does, it's who he is.

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It's his essence, it's his being.

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So everything that he creates is

good as it participates in him, right

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as it's aligned and related to him.

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So when we recognize, the goodness

around us, uh, especially, you

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know, I, I'm, I'm a new grandfather.

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I got to hold my, uh,

granddaughter this weekend.

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And you just look and you hold and

you just see innocence and goodness.

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That's a reflection of God.

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So recognizing that when we see his

goodness in everything, that brings

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us to a place of gratitude, it gives

us the path towards what the rich,

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young ruler was looking for, right?

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Like, show me how to have eternal

life, uh, recognizing God's goodness.

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He actually comes to,, jesus

and calls him good teacher.

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And he says, what good thing must I do?

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And what does Jesus do?

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He says, well, why do you call me good?

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There's only one who is good.

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Uh, God.

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So God is the foundation and the

essence of goodness, uh, truth, right?

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So from goodness, there's also truth.

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And truth is, reality.

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Like it comports with reality.

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So it's so important for us, especially

in an age that is warring against truth,

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trying to ignore truth, that we teach

our children to recognize, truth.

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That it's objective, that

it's real, it exists.

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And then beauty, and I think this

is one of the things, as we look at

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beauty and we see harmony, right?

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All of these things working together,

it's a reflection of who God is

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and not, not just what he does,

but his very essence is very being.

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So one of the things that in a secular

world, that the secular world just can't

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seem to explain is why is there beauty?

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Why do we intuitively know

something's beautiful?

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Why do we hear music?

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And it, it resonates with

us in such a deep way.

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Why is that?

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If everything is random selection and

everything is a survival of the fittest,

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we don't have a real good answer for that.

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So I think that's where we name

the book Compelling Ethics.

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' cause I think there's something

compelling about that.

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There's a drawing feature of

goodness, truth, and beauty.

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And if you get rid of one

of those qualities, right?

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If you get rid of, beauty.

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Well then, you get chaos in anarchy.

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If you get rid of, truth, then what

you're going to have to have is, you know,

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you just have, again, meaninglessness.

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If you get rid of goodness, then

there's, you have domination of people.

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You have nothing that stops

us from all of the, uh, the

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effects of sin on the human soul.

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Stephanie: So well said.

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And it's interesting because I think

believers we can understand the beauty and

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the goodness and the truth of God's plan.

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Often outsiders are looking in thinking

it's about judgment and a list of rules.

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How can we train our kids?

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And especially as.

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They're going out into the world, and so

we're trying to teach them what they need

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to know to engage in this, and also just

to stand for truth, but also to be loving

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and kind as they engage on these topics.

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Dan: Yeah.

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Um, that's a really great question.

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I think there's a couple things.

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Uh, and, um, put in a category

of maybe young children that,

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maybe some older children, I think

with younger children, right?

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We're, we're, as parents, we

have been, given the charge of

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helping in their formation, right?

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Not just their spiritual formation,

but their intellectual, uh,

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formation or emotional formation.

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So I think one of the things that we can

do at a very young age is start to connect

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the dots when we see something that's

good, um, and then connect that dot back

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to the characteristics of God, right?

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This is good.

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Why is that good?

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Because God is good in very,

very small, subtle ways.

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We're looking for those

opportunities to, to connect, um,

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help them be aware, slow down.

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We wanna build activities, I

think too, that help children

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to recognize objective truth.

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So again, I think we write

in the book, about a tree,

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A tree is real.

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It has real tree ness to it, right?

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That's comporting with reality.

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We wanna help our kids to recognize

that because again, we're living

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in a world of radical subjectivism.

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That world collapses on itself.

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And then again, we want to help

them recognize Christ is beautiful

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and where you see that beauty even,

even around the world in things.

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Like one of the things, very simply

what we did with our, our son.

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I have adult sons now.

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They're, they're in their

late twenties twins.

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Um, but one of my boys, had a, I

could tell he had a very tender heart,

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towards children with special needs.

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Stephanie: Mm.

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Dan: So one of the things that

we did is we enrolled him to be

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a volunteer at Special Olympics.

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And as he was working along children

with, uh, significant needs,

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he was recognizing beauty.

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And we'd connect that to the beauty

of the human person, the beauty of

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how God has created each one of us.

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Stephanie: Yeah.

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Dan: That stuck with him

his entire, his entire life.

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So now is the second part of this.

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When we have older children and now

they're gonna be in the world and they're

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going to be engaging in a community and

with neighbors who don't agree with them.

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One of the things, that I've helped

e encourage some people to do in my

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congregation was set some boundaries.

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This is what we do as Christians.

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So in a, we're Christians and as

Christians, um, there are certain

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things, certain practices we don't

do, but here's why we don't do them.

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And this helped.

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You know, again, it's, we're still clear

and convictional, but we're also saying

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this is a community that's beautiful

and has meaning, and we want you to join

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this community is making it something

that's appealing and inviting as opposed

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to saying, well, you need to do this.

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Now.

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Ultimately, yes, we all are going to

submit, to bow the need to Christ, but

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if we can form communities that are a

thick and beautiful community that is

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a, that are appealing to people, it

challenges them to change, their moral

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outlook, based upon what they see.

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Because this is why we named

the book Compelling Ethics.

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It is compelling in a world

you just see today, right?

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If you see a young couple married.

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If you see a young, early,

I got married at 22.

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When you see that today,

what's your first thought?

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They must have some religious

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foundation because, we've denigrated

the institution of marriage so much

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that young people don't do that.

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So when you see it, it causes you now

to pause, go, oh, that couple's married.

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They must have something

that animated that.

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Stephanie: Yes, I can remember my kids

when they were really little and other

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kids they would play with were using the

Lord's name in vain, and they were so

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upset and saying like, you can't say that.

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And I had to teach them, you know,

we have submitted our lives to Jesus

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because we love God, we wanna honor

his name in this way, but we can't

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expect that people that haven't made

that commitment would also follow that.

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So I'm glad that you're modeling it.

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Y you know, it was just, it's

interesting in those little moments,

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it's an opportunity to say, we do live

differently out of love and out of, you

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know, an honor for God's word, but we

are not going to force our, convictions

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or these commandments on others

that haven't committed to Jesus yet.

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Dan: Yeah, that's where the, having

a, a good tension of the here and not

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Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

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Dan: Um.

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I want my neighbors to surrender to

Jesus and live according to his moral

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law because I think that's what's

gonna be good and bring flourishing

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for them and for our community.

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But I can't coerce them.

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I can only persuade with good arguments.

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And not just logical arguments,

but how I live my life and opening

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my life to those to have people be

invited in and see and participate.

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Stephanie: One of the most thought

provoking things you say in this book is

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that politics is a pre-fall institution.

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I'll just read a couple sentences there.

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Politics is a pre-fall condition.

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May sound odd at.

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In our hyperpolarized culture, when

we use the word politics, we tend

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to think in terms of parties and

partisanship, but politics rightly

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understood deals with the ethics required

to maintain a good and just society.

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Thus, politics is concerned with

two plans, order and relationship.

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I love the way that you describe

it and the way that you define it,

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and it does make so much sense.

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Our God is a God of order.

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He creates these, um, spheres to,

to guide us to live rightly what do

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you think a believer's call is and

how we engage with politics when it

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is absolutely polarizing right now?

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Dan: Yeah, that's a great question.

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I want to encourage Christians to engage.

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So if we disengage, then what we leave

is, no voice in the public square.

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So then policies, in policies that are

meant to be for the good of the community

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without a foundation of what is good.

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And because sin has distorted the

unbelieving mind of what is good, you

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end up with policies that good will be

called evil, and evil will be called good.

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That's what happens when

Christians are not active in the.

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Public sphere.

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So I, I think that we engage

now, how we engage, is important.

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So how we engage, I think if we

look at, at Genesis chapter one, and

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we see that from the outflow of a

conversation in the Trinity, right?

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Genesis chapter one, you see

the father, son spirits, they

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let us make man in our image.

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And man and woman created an image of God.

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It's out of a dialogue

that they're having.

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So I think we as humans are

the outflow of that dialogue.

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So we are beings that engage and

persuade through conversation.

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And sometimes, and again, in the

sphere of relationship and politic,

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we're going to have to engage and talk

with people that we disagree with.

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And we are going to have to

find the best means by which

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we can communicate our ideas.

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So, number one, I, I think, uh, engaging,

but engaging in good discussion.

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Now, that's gonna require some

skills that we're going to need.

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And I think now that we no longer

live in a nation that largely has a

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shared value system, we have to take a

different posture in those engagements

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so we can build receptivity with other

people if we first start with them.

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Because who, who do we

like to talk about the most

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Stephanie: Ourselves.

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Dan: ourselves.

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So if we can get people to talk, okay,

well, tell me why you hold that belief.

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Uh, what you'll find is that most people

hold their moral and political beliefs.

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Those are actually not formed logically.

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They're more formed experientially.

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There's usually some very meaningful

experience that's underneath that.

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The James Davis and Hunter

calls it cultural logic,

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if you've Heard that term before.

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So within cultural logic.

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The ideas that people hold,

make perfect sense to them.

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Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

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Dan: Even if they're incoherent,

they make perfect sense.

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So what we wanna do is draw that out.

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Why do you hold that belief?

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Make sure that I fully capture what

you believe, why you believe it.

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I want to make sure that I've

represented the other side, not as a

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straw man, but like, why do you hold

the beliefs you do about X, Y, and Z?

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Once I've done that, I can say, I, and

somebody feels like you've seen them.

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In fact, part of this is honoring

the Imago day in them because of how,

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how God has created us as thinking

beings that are seeking after truth.

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Many of our neighbors who don't

believe what we believe about policy

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or faith, morality, these are because

they're seeking after what's good,

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beautiful and true, but distorted.

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So we wanna honor that and then enter

in with, will I see it differently?

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Can I share how I see it?

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Stephanie: Love that.

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Dan: And then by doing that, now you've

opened up, all of a sudden you've

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deescalated, you're not my enemy.

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Stephanie: Right.

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Dan: Now we can have an exchange.

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And here's what I think happens

in that exchange when we're

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exchanging the truth of scripture.

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Not just the what, but the why behind it

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With all of that.

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That makes sense.

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That's quite beautiful.

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I'll give you an example of this.

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Um, I pastored for, uh, 16

years in, in Buffalo, New York.

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And, uh, I married a young couple.

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I do a follow up after the wedding.

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How are things going and

rehash the wedding ceremony?

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We're sitting at a coffee shop and a young

girl overheard me and this couple talking.

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She came over, she said, could you

tell me why anybody would get married?

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Stephanie: Wow.

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Dan: I said, oh, do you have a moment?

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Tell me why that, why you

would even question that.

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Understood why she'd

come from a broken home.

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Had not seen a marriage

that was flourishing.

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So I got all of that and I said,

well, what if marriage was like this?

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And I started in the garden, started

with brokenness, talked about the

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cross and redemption, and then I ended

with the marriage supper of the lamb.

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And I said, what if that was true?

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And she said, oh, if that

was true, I would love it.

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And I said, I believe it is true.

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And all of a sudden we built, we were able

to have a dialogue about something that

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she couldn't, it was incoherent to her.

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Stephanie: That's a beautiful example,

and what I hear from you with every

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response is you are engaging with

individuals, seeing people, not with

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a megaphone, parading your ideals, but

really getting to the heart of others.

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And I think it is engaging in those

conversations and having respect

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for others made in the image of God.

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That's really beautifully stated.

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Dan: In international conversation, we

have to learn to humanize one another

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Stephanie: Mm-hmm.

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Dan: we're in dire.

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Stephanie: Can you talk

specifically about how you might.

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Engage someone and explain the goodness,

truth and beauty of God's design for

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marriage and the one man and one woman,

and why we believe that is loving to

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encourage others to also follow in that.

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Dan: Yeah.

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I, I think this is where we're on good.

390

We have really good solid ground because

God has hardwired us in some ways, to

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explain the beauty of monogamy is you

just have to talk to somebody who's

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gone through the pain of infidelity.

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Nobody has to convince any one

of that, that hurts and that, and

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that existentially we feel that.

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God's design was to spare

us from that type of pain.

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And we can just look at the

destruction, uh, that's happened in

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a fallen world when marriages, break.

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Anybody who has gone through that

knows that that's a death of sorts.

399

The human soul is there's nothing

more beautiful, nothing more beautiful

400

than when you see a couple that's been

married for 50, 60 years and you see

401

those wrinkled hands still embracing.

402

There's something about

that no one has to tell you.

403

That's, that's beautiful.

404

You just intuitively know that.

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God's design for man and woman in

procreation, again, another beautiful.

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Theological and philosophical truth.

407

I mean that God who's the creator, he

can create any way he wants, but he

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invites us to participate with him in the

work of, we call it procreation, right?

409

We don't call it, I don't like the word

reproduction because what do we reproduce?

410

We reproduce widgets.

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We reproduce, machinery.

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We procreate, we join God in

this, which then is going to

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lead to our sexual ethics.

414

That's going to lead into why we

hold the view of a distinction

415

between male and female.

416

A in a world that is suppressing truth.

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I would say there it is not

confused because I don't

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think that can be confused.

419

We intuitively know it.

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We have to deny it.

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Stephanie: Okay.

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Again, I see the pattern of you're

starting with the beautiful and elevating

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that example of God's intentions and

following that through, I know it's

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those first commands be fruitful and

multiply, that's always been God's

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heart and it's intention, and he's

reiterates that through his word,

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whether it's physical or spiritual.

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We are to engage in that.

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So I think it's really amazing

that he lets us take part

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in that process with him.

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Mm-hmm.

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Dan: And even so when I say that, and

again, uh, I want to be tender in this, I

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understand that people have, psychological

and mental, brokenness, which timed the

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mind and the body seem to not correspond

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to each other.

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But if we.

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If we look at the way God has designed

man and female, even if we were to

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manipulate, our specific parts, we can,

we're only doing that at a cosmetic level.

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They still cannot, they still

don't meet their function, right?

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So when we come back to goodness,

goodness isn't just deed, it's

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following its form and its function.

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form and function of

man and woman together.

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Normatively speaking is

marriage and procreation.

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Um, again, as we see the transgender

movement and we see, you know, a, a

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pushback, I think what we're actually

seeing is, number one, it's a pushback

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on our finitude is, is created beings.

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We're trying get outside of what God has

created us to do and be our own gods.

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but again, when I say you can't.

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Suppress that truth.

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You have to suppress that truth because

the way our bodies and even our,

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our genes are oriented, everything

is oriented towards procreation.

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So you can manipulate cosmetically

our bodies, but it doesn't change

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the orientation of our genes.

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Stephanie: Right.

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It certainly doesn't.

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You had a really fascinating analogy when

I spoke with you about the way that God

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has arranged furniture in the universe.

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Would you share that

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Dan: yeah.

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So, um, we come from a position of

moral realism, we call it, because out

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of God's creation God is, it flows from

his being, and God is supremely good.

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So his laws and his commands are supremely

good in the way he's created reality.

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They're absolutely

consistent with his goodness.

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Therefore, there's a moral goodness that

I say it's the furniture of the universe.

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Uh, Romans chapter one is, is

explains this better than me.

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This is just an analogy of

really, of Romans chapter one.

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You can pretend that

those things aren't there,

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Right?

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If you walk into your family room at

night, and it's pitch black, you don't see

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the couch, but you feel it when you stub

your toe, right when you walk into it.

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So as much as we, as a culture

want to say, there are no objective

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moral realities, we feel it

every time we bump into them.

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So again, these, uh, when we come

back to marriage and, and sexuality,

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you can say there are no, boundaries

to our sexual ethics, but you

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feel it when you bump into it.

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It's to say about, anybody who's,

who's experienced unfaithful,

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knows what I'm talking about.

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You could, you feel it, you bump into it.

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The idea that we live in just a

subjective, relativistic world.

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You have to suppress it.

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And you're also living

very inconsistently.

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I'll give you an example.

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When you think about love, I was talking

with a, a gentleman who, does not believe

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in, in God, doesn't really believe.

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He's more of a, at least agnostic,

probably wouldn't go as far as

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atheist, but he'd say it's agnostic.

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And when you ask about, you know,

why the purpose of why we're here,

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survival of the fittest, it's impulses.

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I said what about love?

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He said, love is just a chemical reaction.

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Keeps us together, keeps the

species, moving forward keeps

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the species having children.

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I said, do you do anything

for Valentine's Day?

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He said, yeah, taking my wife out.

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Butter, you know, some

chocolates, and I'm like, why?

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You're not living consistent.

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Know, you do those things because

there's something else at work.

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And that's the, the moral furniture you

can say that this has just chemical

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reactions, but you don't live that way.

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Come back next week for

part two, as I continue this

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conversation with Dan Trippy.

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My favorite part was when he encourages

moms about the eternal value that

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what you do matters in the home.

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And I know I usually end each

episode praying over you, but have

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you heard of our daily podcast, the

Dwelling Place Bible Plan for Moms?

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Each weekday episode is under 10 minutes.

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In it, I read the word over, you help

you apply it to life into parenting,

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and then I close with a different

prayer every day over you and your kids.

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I'm gonna link that in the show notes,

and I hope you can make that a part of

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your daily routine will see you next week.