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As a holiday treat Jamie gets to take a break, so the rest of us can sit back and get cozy as Bambi tells the story of Alice Roosevelt—daughter of the ridiculously-mustached Teddy. Inheriting her father's need for attention, she went from pranking White House dinner parties with her pet snake (Emily Spinach) to becoming a political institution in Washington D.C., whose favor and advice was sought by insiders. Alice was beloved by the press and foreign leaders including the Dowager Empress of Japan and Kaiser Wilhelm of Germany. But her ambitions to return to the White House were thwarted by rivalries and difficult choices, and she lived a life touched by tragedy. Let's sip some cocoa and hear the story of a feminist icon who defied convention, set trends, and held onto petty grudges.

Are we recording?

Welcome to the bonus episode everyone.

This is Chainsaw History.

I'm Jamie Chambers and this is my sister Bambi.

Hello.

Who will be telling us a story today.

For once we're flipping the script and I'm going to be the one sitting back and seeing

what Bambi has come up with.

So we both independently research topics without even telling each other.

So I only found out just recently what the hell we're talking about today.

Yep.

Which is...

We are going to discuss the infamous Alice Roosevelt.

Infamous.

Infamous.

Actually, she wasn't even just infamous.

She was actually super famous.

Yeah, I knew she had like a reputation.

She's so famous.

I mean, she was probably the most famous woman of her time, especially while she was the

first daughter.

Well, groovy.

If you're listening to this, be sure to go to ChainsawHistory.com where you can find

our past episode archive, see our show notes, and find out how you can support us if you

want to help us pay the bills around here.

Let's go.

Okay.

So Alice Lee Roosevelt was born to loving parents, Teddy and Alice Lee.

Theodore.

Theodore Roosevelt and Alice Lee, who was a very...

She was an infamous beauty.

She was very, very beautiful.

And Teddy loved the absolute shit out of her.

Infamous beauty as opposed to famous beauty.

She wasn't a famous beauty, but she was supposed to be breathtaking.

Alice Senior, infamously beautiful.

Then you have Teddy in that magnificent mustache.

Oh yeah.

But he absolutely adored his wife because they got engaged on February 14th.

So he had it in his head that his daughter would not be born until the 14th.

So when he got a telegram on February 12th, 1884, with news that, surprise baby girl,

he passed out cigars and went back to work.

Well, yeah, he's Teddy Roosevelt.

He was an assemblyman and he was like, oh great, we have a girl.

She's a little, she's two days early, but that's fine.

And then a little while later he got another telegram and that one says, uh, your wife

is ill and so is your mother.

And his mother was originally, they thought she was recovering from like a really bad

cold and it turned out to be typhoid.

Just a little mild case of typhoid fever.

So when Teddy arrived home, he was there in time to hold his wife while she was dying

and go and sit vigil for his mother.

And they both died on February 14th.

Yeah.

I mean, I know a bit about Teddy Roosevelt's life and he has these little bouts of tragedy

that sort of ripple through his whole life.

Yeah.

And so, and Alice Lee, she apparently had Bright's disease and it was not diagnosed

and she, so she suffered kidney failure.

So Teddy was devastated.

He was really, really upset.

So he handed his baby daughter over to his sister and fucked off to North Dakota again

because he's Teddy Roosevelt for three years and because he was so upset about his wife,

he never spoke her name again.

She was not included in his memoirs and unfortunately his daughter had the same name and he refused

to call her Alice.

He's just like, nope, nope.

So for the first...

No more Alice and now we're going to read In Wonderland.

Yeah, it's, but yeah, he never spoke her, he tried not to speak her name ever again

and he just called her baby Lee.

Baby Lee.

Baby Lee.

Sometimes he would also refer to her in letters as mousykins.

His daughter, he sometimes had something to do with.

Yeah, occasionally.

And so he had left her with his sister.

Eventually, I want to talk about this bitch because she's cool and there was not one thought

in Teddy Roosevelt's head that was not put there by his sister.

Apparently she was the brains behind his operation.

There was nothing that he did without her consent.

He was more of a Tasmanian devil type as opposed to like a thinking man.

So he left her with his sister.

Now she's cool because, well, first of all, her name was Anna, but nobody called her Anna.

She was called Baimie, like baby girl, like me.

She had a similar nickname.

They called her Baimie.

Baimie.

Okay.

Baimie.

But when she was a teenager, she got a new nickname because she was here, there and everywhere.

So it was Hi Baimie, Bye Baimie.

So they just started calling her Bye, which I just think is cool.

So Alice went to go live with her Aunt Bye and she called her her blue eyed darling and

absolutely loved the shit out of her.

And this was going to, and Teddy was like, this is your kid now.

It's like it was just gifted.

Yeah.

The person who was supposed to take care of this one isn't around.

So this is your problem now.

But Baimie was thrilled to have her because he's off shooting guns and getting into bar

fights.

He's doing whatever the fuck in North Dakota on a dude ranch.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He literally built a ranch and fucked off there for, for three years and liked riding

horses until he literally, his sister was like, you really need to like do your job.

You need to go back and be an assemblyman, get off your ass and get back off your horse

and get in a chair.

And so he did and he had this Victorian, you're supposed to stay like faithful even in death.

So he was like, I don't invite my old girlfriend over when I'm there.

So of course his sister did and they got married naturally.

And so his new wife Edith in 1886, he came back and he had this uptight wife and she

was, her sensibilities would not allow her to not raise Alice.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the guy, I mean the step mom being like, you need to step up and be responsible.

That's a kind of an old story for those kinds of dudes.

It's like, it's, it's time to be a family now, Theodore.

Yes.

So they took baby Alice away from her loving family.

From the, her version of a mom that she liked and loved.

And who loved her and adored her and was very affectionate to her.

And instead went to go live in a house with her, an ice cube, an ice cube of a stepmother

and a father that would rather her not exist.

You remind me of this painful memory.

Why are you here?

Yeah.

And it was really, really hard for Alice.

She had kind of a cold childhood.

And the fact that she had five brothers and sisters after her, who she always felt like

her parents loved them more.

Like she was the outsider.

And uh, probably correctly.

And so she would act out.

And part of the acting out when she was real little, especially like after Edith had one

of her children, little Alice declared that she was going to give birth to a monkey.

Oh yeah.

Scandalous.

I'm sure that that gave her step-mom the vapors.

But yeah.

And so Alice grew up kind of feeling unloved and unwanted and seeking attention.

And like all kids that seek attention, she became a wild child.

Yeah.

She became a complete wild child.

And so when she was around like 11, 12 years old, like preteen wise, her father became

governor of New York.

And so Alice got to enjoy being the first daughter of New York.

And she was a hellion.

And she would sneak out of the house and she would hang out with boys and they would ride

their bikes and they were, he called them like scallywags, scallywags, scallywags.

And she was being a little hoodlum and her, and her step-mom was like kind of over it.

And so she wanted to send her to boarding school.

Well, that's what you do when you're a prude step-mom and you've got a wild child.

And Alice absolutely put her foot down and refused to go.

She's like, how about fuck you?

Yeah.

So she sent a letter to her father that said, if you send me, I will humiliate you.

I will do something that will shame you.

I tell you I will, unquote.

I instantly love her.

She knew exactly how to work.

How do you fuck with a narcissist?

You threaten his public image.

And he's like, well, I can't have that.

Yeah.

So Alice was not sent to boarding school.

How about we just keep you happy and relatively calm over here so that I can be important

and may eventually be president.

Because of course being governor of New York was just a stepping stone for the ambitions

of one Theodore.

Yeah.

And the thing about Alice was, I mean, if you know anything about the Roosevelts, they're

really brilliant.

Teddy Roosevelt was an autodidact and so was his daughter.

So she, like him, could recite long stanzas of poetry by memory and really just be able

to.

Oh, so she could do the same thing.

Like he could memorize four hour speeches.

Exactly.

No problem.

Yeah.

So she had that exact same ability.

So of all of his children, she was actually the most brilliant, even though she was the

only one that didn't have any formal schooling.

So because she's used her brains for the purpose of having a good time.

Yeah.

Well, and she was a voracious reader.

She read about everything.

And we'll talk a little bit more about that later.

But yeah, so yeah, she seems pretty groovy so far.

Yeah.

And then as a preteen, she was like, fuck you, dad, I'm not going to boarding school.

And he was like, I guess you're not.

Yeah, because I mean, shit, I don't want that.

Yeah.

He didn't want to be publicly shamed.

So what do you think she would have done like, like what spectacle she would have done?

It's because of my dad, the governor of New York.

It's, it's almost hard to tell.

Nude high diving off the roof of a building into a swimming hole or something.

You never know.

And you'll, you'll see how funny that statement is later.

Okay.

But so in 1901, Teddy Roosevelt became the vice president.

Now his family was completely against him being on the ticket, because his name wasn't

first.

And they were like, why would you want to be vice president?

That is not even a real job.

Traditionally, a shit job.

Yeah, it's not even a real title and they really didn't want to do it.

They were very happy being the first family of New York.

However, President William McKinley was shot.

He sure was.

He was shot and eight days later, he was dead and TR became president.

And so Alice and her siblings, even though publicly they were, you know, in mourning

and very, you know, publicly sad, they were elated.

They were thrilled to be going to the White House.

You went from, well, you have the job that no one respects to literally being the top

dog.

And this is America in the very early 20th century when we're really kind of coming out

of our shell.

Yeah.

Again, this is right at the turn of the century.

This is, you know, 1901 and 17 year old Alice became an instant celebrity, the first daughter

of the United States, the first daughter of the United States.

And she wasn't just the first daughter.

She was the first teenager, got a teen girl with a serious preacher's daughter syndrome

going on.

Yeah.

All right.

Well, let's see where this goes.

And she was beautiful.

She was absolutely stunning.

Here, I'll show you a picture.

Oh yeah.

She is.

She's cute.

She's real cute.

She was known for being real cute, real feisty, real smart, dangerous combination.

So now we're getting to Alice in the White House, which is anytime they talk about Alice

Roosevelt, this is what they want to talk about.

Alice's stint as the first daughter.

So because the White House was in mourning, they really didn't have any of the normal

White House ceremonies for Christmas.

It was a somber occasion because poor President McKinley is all dead and shit.

And they didn't really open up the White House till New Year's, but they kept everything

kind of on the low until Alice had her debut at the White House, her debut debut at the

White House in 1902.

Coming out party.

Oh, and everything about this party was very well documented.

And Alice was very sad because her frugal stepmother absolutely ruined it for her in

some ways because they had punch instead of champagne and they didn't put up a dance floor.

And yeah, it was a lame party.

She considered it a very lame party and she was disappointed.

Well, if you don't have booze and you can't dance, I mean, you know, check, check, lame

party.

Thanks for the punch, mom.

So Alice was a little upset, but the press was very complimentary.

They thought it was elegant and beautiful.

And Alice wore this blue gray dress that actually became Alice blue.

It became not only just her signature color, but it was a nationwide sensation.

Literally created a color.

She created a color trend to the point where there were poems and songs written about it.

There was a play that actually had a song written called Alice Blue.

So she is a fashion influencer at 17 years old.

At 17 years old, she was not only just a fashion influencer, but she was also like a feminist

icon because she was just wild enough to be interesting.

Well, I can imagine that, you know, any, you know, young woman who's reading about the

exploits of Alice is like, man, I wish I could mouth off and, and have fun and do whatever

I wanted instead of, you know, just being put in my place and married off to some asshole.

So yeah, everything about Alice was very, very well documented.

In 15 months, they say she attended 407 dinners, 350 balls, and 300 parties.

And this list goes on.

There's so much other things.

Well, I imagine because she's part of the first family, the White House itself records

all of the shit she does there.

And then you got the press following her around.

The press, I mean, the only thing that we can, I can even like, modernly say what would

be similar would be how the press was so obsessed with Princess Diana, right?

Because we don't have anything like this anymore.

We don't like any of our people.

Well, and I mean, with and granted, you know, it's like celebrity stuff now has kind of

its own space.

But I mean, when people in the time where people didn't have televisions and only had

radios and newspapers, they would push real, like news stories back and put frivolous shit

about her on the front page.

Of course, because that sold the papers.

You want to move some paper, you know, but the pretty teenage girl, not the, you know,

the tragedy and the death and the oppression and all that, you know, and it is said in

her purse, she carried a dagger, a copy of the Constitution, and her green snake.

Okay, I think that last one bears a little clarification.

She had what she had a green stick snake that she named Emily spinach, because it was as

thin as her old Aunt Emily and was spinach green.

So Emily spinach, she would wear her snake around her wrist or her neck like jewelry.

Her snake would just hang out on her arm or her neck.

Or if she she would get real mischievous and like put it under platters at dinner parties

at the White House.

There was so much every time I've listened to any interviews or anything, they always

like to use the word scandalous.

And I think that that's a misnomer because she wasn't scandalous.

She was outrageous.

Right?

She was pearl clutching, but she never did anything that would get her like shunned from

society.

She wasn't she wasn't doing sex scandals or anything like that.

Exactly.

But she's a she's a young lady and supposed to be of a high society and her acting this

way is so against the social norm.

So of course, I mean, by the standards of the tribe, it is scandalous.

It was she's not acting like a proper lady.

She was outrageous, but she in the best ways, but again, nothing so much that she would

get like, not invited to Sure, no, everybody.

So clearly, everybody loved her even while they love talking about her.

Oh, my goodness.

And again, and she was a and she was a debutante.

She would have been a debutante regardless.

In fact, um, and Alice being Alice, she came out by herself.

But she also went to her cousins, because there was five Roosevelt girls, and they all

kind of came out in the same year.

And all five of them, quote, came out together, although Alice was already out.

She already had her debutante ball, but she's still her debut, however, she still debuted

with her cousin.

So she redebuted.

Yeah, she re and it was Yeah, so she kind of just was there out shining

everybody.

So she's an eligible young bachelorette.

And she thought her father for the limelight.

And he got he would be very upset with some of her stuff.

Like, I assume anything like how frustrating would be for him to say the name Roosevelt

on a newspaper and then see not his name attached to it, that will not do.

And it was all the time.

And for some things that he wouldn't have been

a wild teenager is way more fun than the mustachioed, you know, stuffy president.

Oh, yeah.

And Alice loved to do things like she loved to drive in cars.

And again, she was, um, it was very scandalous, because her and her friend would drive unchaperoned.

Oh, my goodness.

And one time, they drove all the way from Newport to Long Island by themselves gasp.

And I think she actually holds a record for driving alone from one span to another being

the first woman to do that by herself, which is kind of funny.

But yeah, her and her friend,

Marguerite Cassini, because she had rich friends.

Like Alice was Alice was rich.

Like her grandparents, her lead grandparents were very wealthy.

You're telling me the Roosevelt's were wealthy among the jet setting.

They were.

But they were of a lower tier.

Yeah, they weren't.

They were rich, but they weren't like ultra rich.

In today's terms, it'd be like millionaires versus billionaires kind of deal.

But she hung out with the ultra rich.

Like her friends were one of them was Marguerite Cassini, and she was diplomats daughter.

And she had like, serious foreign money.

And I want to say Grace Aster was also one of her good friends.

And she was like the Aster 400.

Like the coveted social spots.

So she was included in that she was big shit.

And she would complain because, first of all, scandalous.

Alice was a big gambler.

She loved to play poker, and she loved to bet on horses.

In fact, there is a picture of her that was in the papers, paying a bookie.

And her parents were fucking livid.

She likes to go to the track.

She did.

She liked going to the track.

She loved fast cars.

She loves fast horses.

Smoking cigarettes and playing poker in the back rooms.

I like her.

Yeah, she was really, really badass.

And for every scandalous thing that she did, her dad also used her as a goodwill ambassador.

So she actually was sent because her stepmother really didn't like doing a lot of the first

lady duties, going out and like doing kind of the traveling and some of the social stuff.

So having to attend all these events and ribbon cuttings.

So a lot of the times they would send Alice.

So one of the very first things she did was christen a boat for Kaiser Wilhelm.

Our good old buddy, the Kaiser.

But yeah, so Kaiser Wilhelm was so impressed with Alice that even though she, when she

christened the boat, the meteor, years later, he had a boat commissioned the Alice Roosevelt.

Oh, that's interesting.

You know, I wonder, did the Alice Roosevelt go to battle against the United States?

It's very possible.

That's interesting.

Okay.

She was also invited to go to, which king was it?

King Edward VIII's coronation.

So we're talking not just travel, but she's going to go to Europe and all over the place.

Yeah.

And so because there was so much speculation and she was going to be like considered a

princess in which she had already been dubbed Princess Alice in the press, which her parents

did not like.

So she was not allowed to go and she was really upset.

That sucks.

She didn't get to be a princess.

She didn't get to be a princess.

However, instead they sent her to Cuba for a month.

So she spent a month in Havana as a goodwill ambassador.

Teddy's like, I had such a great time in Cuba.

And she had a fabulous time and they were really taken with her and her trip was a marvelous

success.

I've heard Havana is a pretty cool town.

Yeah.

She was having a great time.

And so then things get a little serious.

So in 1905, Teddy Roosevelt wanted to negotiate a treaty between Japan and Russia.

They had been fighting.

They sure had.

They kind of wanted to stop, but nobody wanted to lose face.

So Teddy Roosevelt decided to send his secretary of war, William Taft.

Ah, good old Taft.

Good old Taft.

So he's to go negotiate this treaty, except for they needed it to be super secret.

And the problem with something like that with Taft is that he was a very large man and he

was very hard to mess.

Famously, he was a very large guy.

So he couldn't exactly do anything stealthily.

So instead, they decided to make it a mission to go see the Philippines and to go check

out Hawaii and the Philippines.

And while we were there, we were going to go to Japan and see some of these other...

And just happen to stop by and see the emperor and the czar, you know, me and my 500 pound

friend.

So this delegation was sent and Alice was told she needed to be a distraction.

And so she was.

She decided that when the trip got boring, she needed to liven it up.

So like on the train, she decided to shoot at the telegraph boxes from the train for

funsies.

At one point, she set off fireworks in the train declaring it was the 4th of July, which

by the way, I don't even know if it was the 4th of July or she just declared it was the

4th of July.

It is now, bitches.

It is now.

And she's just like, I'm bored.

We're going to liven things up around here with explosives and gunshots.

Exactly.

So when they got to New York...

If anyone could have understood that, her father could have.

They said they wanted a distraction.

And at one point, Alice decided to, like when they were in New York, she snuck away from

all of her chaperones and entourage and spent the night by herself in Chinatown.

Nice.

Doing God knows what.

But she was back bright eyed and bushy tiled the next morning.

Buying bootleg coach bags and smoking opium.

Pretty much.

But she was having a good time in Chinatown.

And finally, when they made it to San Francisco, they decided to load up on the ship.

And the captain had put a little pool on the top deck for her amusement, a little swimming

pool.

So she jumped in it fully clothed.

Well, I mean, at least she was fully clothed.

That's what she said.

And it's like this made headlines everywhere that she jumped in this pool fully clothed.

And she was like...

Like what?

You wanted to be naked?

Yeah, that was the response.

She was like, I thought it would only be scandalous if I had taken my clothes off.

Fuck you.

What do you people want from me?

So she did.

She went to the Philippines and she went to Hawaii.

And the whole time she was traveling...

She was literally told to be obnoxious and a distraction.

So that's amazing.

For once, they used her powers to their advantage.

For good.

But yeah.

But another thing that she was really excited about on this trip was one of the guys that

her and her friend, Marguerite Cassini, had been fighting over.

Nicholas Longworth was on this trip.

So this becomes her guy.

And like, they're flirting all over this trip.

And Taft was almost concerned being her chaperone.

He was like, I'm too fat to keep up with you two.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he was like, you shouldn't hang out with him unless you're engaged.

And she basically said, as good as.

So the trip was a marvelous success.

And especially in Japan, she met the Dowager Empress.

And this woman was like a bitty that had her own son killed.

And it was like...

She was hardcore.

She was a hardcore...

There was even rumor that she was going to have her nephew assassinated.

The Emperor was assassinated because she wanted to maintain her power.

But I don't know if that happened.

She's like the Queen of Thorns from Game of Thrones.

She really is.

So even with an interpreter, this old bitch loved Alice.

Absolutely adored her.

She's like, oh, I see a fellow woman who takes no shit.

So they bonded and now Alice...

And you have to understand, when Alice went on this trip, which by the way, I don't think

that our news people are as quippy and as interesting as they used to be.

Because some of the things that they had headlined with her were just great.

And one of them was when she was going on this trip, it was Alice's Adventures in Wonderland,

which cute, whatever.

When she came back, they called it Alice's Adventure in Plunderland because she had so

much shit.

She was given bolts of cloth and jewelry and all kinds of bullshit.

The people of everywhere loaded her down.

And I mean, she couldn't even keep up with it.

There were rings and she was like, lost those.

It's like, where did they go?

She had so much shit, she couldn't even keep up with it.

And so she came back and her and Nick got engaged.

So it's official.

So officially official that Alice Lee Roosevelt was to become Alice Roosevelt Longworth.

And so she marries this 30 year old balding congressman, which everyone said he was so

handsome and you see pictures of him and you're like, I don't get it.

And now granted, she had like serious daddy issues, so she liked older men.

Early 1900s handsome is different than 2023 handsome, I think.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So in December 1905, she became engaged and the wedding took place in February of 1906.

And so unfortunately, the things that she really dug about him in certain ways was also

the things that were going to kill her marriage.

Like he was kind of a playboy.

And again, that's sexy when you're dating.

He was so bald handsome.

He was very bald handsome apparently.

Women couldn't keep their hands off him.

Women could not keep their fucking hands off him.

It was really weird.

Like she had to fight her friends for him.

And then she got him and he did nothing but cheat on her.

Like it was said, like he started cheating on her on the honeymoon basically.

Like they were barely married when he started infidelity.

There was never any hint that he was going to just be a one woman man.

No.

And I mean, I'm sure she thought that that's what was going to happen.

I'll tame this one.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure she had, I'm sure it was a shock.

And the thing that shouldn't have been a shock was that he was also a partier.

He drank too much.

And she liked it once again.

And she liked him when, and you know, when he was a fun party boy, but it's not much

fun when you're the wife at home waiting for your husband to get home drunk at three o'clock

in the morning.

And it really became a contentious part of their marriage, but he, he was an alcoholic.

He was a horrible alcoholic.

So Alice gets married and Nick is a congressman from Ohio.

And she loved being a congressman's wife.

Like the political scene.

In fact, one of the reasons that she picked Nick is because he was an up and coming like

star.

Well, that was, you know, her life was being around.

That was her life.

And her entire goal was to get back in the White House.

I mean, I couldn't imagine she would want to like, just go and just be some housewife

somewhere after, after being a 17 year old superstar.

Yeah.

And it's very funny because she said that after she was married, she spent more time

in the White House as when she was married than she did when she lived there.

Because when she lived there, her entire life was partying.

So she was only there to like sleep and change clothes.

But once she was a married woman and partying was no longer her life, she spent a lot more

time with her family and she especially tried to spend time with her father.

And that the time when they were leaving the White House, when Taft became president, she

called it being expelled from the Garden of Eden.

So she really loved...

She really loved the White House.

And her whole goal was to get back there.

So she marries this up and coming star senator from Ohio.

Thinking he's going to be the guy, but then he turns out to be just a philandering drunk.

No.

Oh.

No, he becomes, he's a star senator.

And he, her home becomes a kind of base of operations for a lot of the Republican Party

and like her home is where a lot of policy gets made.

She hosts congressmen and senators and her world becomes a political powerhouse.

And so eventually her husband becomes speaker.

Second in line to be president, that's not bad.

Okay.

So Alice was very pissed off about leaving the White House.

In fact, to the point where, okay, you'll like this little hint, Jamie, Alice was not

a Christian.

She considered herself to be a pagan.

Interesting.

That's at a time when that's not a popular thing for a nice young white woman to say.

Yup.

She, but yeah.

So she made a voodoo doll in the likeness of Mrs. Taft and buried it in the White House

lawn.

Oh, that's amazing.

Yes.

So somewhere on the White House is a voodoo doll that Alice buried of Mrs. Taft.

She didn't have enough material to make a Mr. Taft doll.

Uh, but yeah.

So her husband and Taft were really good friends.

They were both from Ohio.

They were both in the Republican Party and originally he was handpicked by Theodore Roosevelt

to take his place because Teddy was like, I'm not going to run a third term.

And then, so after he was out of the White House for a few years, he was like, I really

just want to get back in that bench.

Theodore Roosevelt decided to run against Taft and it put Nick in a huge bind because

they're both from Ohio.

They're also really good friends.

So like personally, his decision might not have affected him because they even told him

they were like, do what you got to do, dude.

This is politics.

We're not going to be mad about it.

We know how the game is played.

But Theodore actually told him, he was like, this could hurt you.

Run with Taft, which made a lot of sense for Nick as a politician.

However, it did not make sense for him as a husband.

Alice is like, not cool, dude.

Well, Alice understood because she, I mean, Alice was very politically savvy.

I mean, she was politically aware and she would have been sent on fucking diplomatic

missions and shit.

And at this point in time, she was also being used as her husband or as her husband and

her father's closest advisors.

Like they were going, they trusted her judgment on things and wanted to hear what she had

to say.

Yes, very much so.

And especially at this point, she became like a campaign strategist for her dad.

So she knew how to work the press.

She did.

And before this, like her image really helped Nick.

Like they got married and she went to go campaign with him around Cincinnati and like they were

almost crushed at one point.

Like he was, they were, she was just sitting on a stage and he was giving a speech and

they wanted her so badly that they rushed, they rushed the stage to the point where she

they had to escape inside a window into a building to go through another building to

be picked up.

Like beetle mania for Alice.

Exactly.

Alice mania.

Like she was almost crushed to death a couple of times because of crowds.

It was, she, she called it like, she said it was terrible, but exciting.

But she didn't go and tell the papers that she's bigger than Jesus.

No, she did not.

Which is a good call in America in the early 1900s.

So she's campaigning for her dad.

And at first he's running primary as a Republican.

And William Taft did shady, shady shit with the electoral college and fucked him.

What?

You mean the perfect institution that is the electoral college that's never let us down

even once?

Nope, that's the one.

So but yeah, so he basically, even though he had the vote, Theodore Roosevelt had the

votes for the primary.

However, because of the way they finagled the electoral college and because the sitting

president could maneuver things, he ended up getting the nomination, which pissed off

Teddy Roosevelt to the point where he decided to split the Republican party and start the

Bull Moose Party.

Yep, I knew the Bull Moose Party was coming into this.

So Alice became fucking hog wild for the Bull Moose Party.

She thought the Progressive Party, she was like, I read it and it's the best thing I

ever read.

I read it again and again and again.

And everyone should be a progressive.

Oh my God.

And this became her Bible.

What were the tenets of the Bull Moose Party?

I remember a little bit, but it's like...

You know, I don't even remember because it was so unimportant to the party because he

lost.

He sure did.

You'll notice that he was a two-term, there's only one more than two-term Roosevelt or two-term

any president ever.

Yup.

So not only did her dad lose the election, but because of the hubbub, her husband also

lost his seat.

Really many, many failures of third-party runs.

So her husband lost his seat and this was kind of the split in their marriage where

she felt...

It's bad enough that you're a cheating drunk, but now you're out of power.

Well, and honestly, she blamed herself because she was told that she was not allowed to,

even though she could do things from the background and the sidelines, she was not allowed to

be seen in public at some of these rallies for the Progressive Party.

And she broke those rules and was seen anyway.

She went to two different rallies, she was photographed, it was really bad for Nick and

he lost his seat.

It's like your own wife's campaigning against you, you asshole.

Sort of.

Even though he was, you know, Congress, because of the Taft debacle, he lost his seat.

And he was upset about it, she blamed herself, he was an alcoholic, she was disgusted by

it.

And their...

So the writing was on the wall for their marriage?

At one point, she wanted a divorce and then it was like, that's bad for politics.

So they stayed married and just became friends.

The roommate situation.

Yeah.

And I mean, they were still really close.

And he already had girlfriends all over the place, so it didn't hurt his sex life any.

He had girlfriends all over the place.

And it wasn't even just like, I mean, he slept with her friends.

It was icky.

So yeah, not just a guy who couldn't keep it in his pants, but he was an absolute dick

about it.

Exactly.

It was early in their marriage, she actually was like walking down the street and caught

him canoodling in the grass with another woman.

Didn't even walk down the street without seeing her husband.

Like fucking around.

Yeah.

That's great.

Yeah.

Good job, Nick.

Yeah.

Nick was pretty stellar.

However, Nick was also a great politician and he earned his...

She helped campaign and they earned his seat back and eventually he became the speaker

of the house.

There you go.

Yeah.

And that was the only time he lost a race, was the time that Alice...

She was partying with his political enemies.

Pretty much.

Well, there you go.

And you can't blame her.

That was her dad.

So she had a successful political partnership.

She had a successful political partnership.

Despite the fact that they had a sterile, loveless marriage at that point.

Yes.

Got it.

And speaking of sterile, Nick was.

So he's shooting blanks into every woman he meets.

Yeah.

At no point in time did any mistress ever come forward saying that...

Which is handy for your philandering, but terrible for establishing a family at home.

So eventually Alice started her own covert affairs.

Which is only fair.

Only fair at this point.

And he's been with like a hundred other women, so she has a couple of dudes every now and

then.

Yeah.

And I mean, Alice also, she didn't like to be touched.

She had an aversion to being touched.

So I'm sure that the hyper philandering guy, and she was like, stay off me, dude.

But she did get lonely occasionally.

And so she started hanging out, not only in the family observation for the house, but

she started going over and checking out the Senate.

And while she was checking out the Senate, she was checking out the leader of the Senate.

The Senate majority or leader.

So she started...

Ugh, she had a horrible vision of getting a crush on Mitch McConnell.

Well, this guy was named William Borah.

Okay.

I've never heard of him, or at least don't remember.

And they called him the Lion of Idaho because he had this big mane of hair.

How have I never heard of the Lion of Idaho?

What a weird juxtaposition.

I mean, you have Idaho, the most boring potato laden state ever, then you got a lion.

So it's like a potato with a lion's mane on it in my head.

Anyway, go ahead.

Let's hear about it.

So yeah, so she started this long term affair with Senator William Borah and Alice at 40

years old gets pregnant.

Whoopsie.

Suddenly she's with a man who isn't shooting blanks.

However, her husband is thrilled.

He couldn't have been more thrilled.

It's a laugh.

Somebody put a baby in there.

And again, it was his baby.

As he claimed it, that was his daughter.

And so they had a little joke that before she was born that she was going to name her

Deborah as in Deb-ora.

Oh, gotcha.

And he was like, with so many rumors and her husband was like, with so many rumors around,

you really want to do that.

Hilarious, but how about no?

Yeah.

So she named her Paulina and which, oh, I'd have to look it up, but it was like some kind

of like Greek tragedy with infidelity involved.

So even the name was a jab at her husband.

It wasn't really a jab, but more like a joke for her.

It's like, hahaha.

Yeah.

It's like my infidelity caused this baby.

But she really, really loved Senator Bora.

Who I assume was also married.

He was also married and they weirdly, like the four of them became friends.

So this was this sort of like understood arrangement, one of those kind of situations?

We don't know because it was never talked about.

It was never written about.

But they socialized together?

But they socialized together.

So in other words, okay, I'm going to go ahead and plant my flag and say they totally

had a understanding.

They had an understanding.

They had to have.

And I mean, even if, I mean, Nick obviously knew, I mean, I mean, even, yeah, I mean,

there was no question that he knew.

I haven't touched this woman in years.

Yeah.

But it was debatable on how much Bora's wife knew.

But even in her memoirs long after her husband was dead, she talked about her beloved Billy

and how kind and lovely and what a good friend Alice was.

And Alice would bring little Paulina, or Paulina, I've heard it said both ways.

She would take them, she would take her daughter over to the Bora's house socially and let

this woman-

Go dad and his wife.

And they all enjoyed her.

Nick adored the shit out of her and would like take her in and would sit her down on

his lap during sessions and she would bang the gavel.

This other guy gave him a kid that he could have.

So he had no reason to be upset about it because he was at least aware and cool enough that,

you know, based on his own behavior and his own limitations.

Yeah.

And again, it would be even one thing if, you know, he would have accepted it and moved

on, but he really did adore this child.

He wanted her to feel- Maybe he always wanted to be a dad but couldn't

and this was his actual shot at it.

So he took it and he loved her.

Unfortunately, Nick- Oh, there's an unfortunately coming.

Nick, being the gross, disgusting alcoholic that he was, finally like died of liver cirrhosis.

Like when she was six.

Sorry, Nick.

So- You went the way of many drunks.

Yeah.

And it's really sad because there was, if like the Roosevelt family, there was so much

alcoholism all through it.

Like several uncles- And she married into alcoholism.

Several uncles died from alcoholism, nephews died.

It was bad.

They had a lot of alcoholism, running rampant.

And so Alice was a moderate drinker.

And again, we're going to backtrack a little bit because, you know, prohibition was also

during this time when her husband was a raging alcoholic.

And- So how is it a raging alcoholic when it's

illegal to get a drink?

It's only illegal if you're poor.

Apparently, that didn't stop any of our elected officials from drinking.

Never.

Alice, in fact, her butler was brewing beer and something else in the basement.

Like they actually like bought him a still.

Well, that's the thing.

I mean, the temperance movement, you got that, well, that's for these other people, these

poor people who can't control themselves- Well, and again, it wasn't even like most

of our officials didn't want it.

It was literally, they gave 50% of the population the vote and women were sick of their drunk

husbands beating them and spending their money on booze instead of being in their families.

So they thought that this was going to cut down on violence and domestic abuse and crime.

And it totally didn't.

And it backfired and it made it so much worse.

Fuck, I made everything worse and now it's illegal for me to get drunk too.

Shit.

Yeah, but apparently our elected officials did not give a fuck about those rules because-

And rich people kept having their great Gatsby parties the whole time.

The whole fucking time.

In fact, it was very funny because the president at the time, oh, I can't even remember his

name and it's going to bother me.

But anyway, the president at the time didn't have a wife, so his sister was taking over.

And so there was a big kerfuffle about when she was going to be sat down.

Like there was so much precedent about who sits where and when they get sat and blah,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And so she should have been in theory, like after all the diplomats and the senators wives

and things like the official wives get to sit down and then she would.

And the president was like, no, she's my official hostess.

Fuck you.

So it was said that Alice refused to go to some of these dinners and parties because

this woman was going to be sat down in front of her.

She's like, oh hell no.

And yeah, so she was like, fuck no.

However, Alice laughed about this and she was like, no, Nick didn't want to go because

they had dry parties.

So he didn't want to go to a dry dinner.

So he used his wife as an excuse and she looked like a total bitch.

And she was like, I'm not facing these people sober, are you out of your goddamn mind?

And so it's like, she looked like a bitch and she was like, me, you think I give a shit

about precedent?

Have you met me?

And so time goes by, she goes to one of these dinners and she's hugging and holding the

woman's hands and being very friendly.

And she was like, this isn't a thing.

You guys made this up.

I just canceled dinner because my husband is a drunk.

My drunk husband didn't want to be bored at your damn dinner.

Pretty much.

But that was the kind of shit that went around.

And so here we are, poor Nick is dead and Alice is still running DC.

Washington is still her hub.

They are still in her living room, even though there's no reason.

She has no official reason to be host to sing anything, but she don't stop.

Yeah.

But I mean, everybody, it's already, she's already got it.

She's just got to keep going.

Yeah.

And again, and it was also one of the most popular places to be, everyone loved going

to her house.

She's certainly an awesome person to hang out with.

Yeah.

And again, it's like the wine was always good and the food was always good and the conversation

was always stimulating.

Like it was smart, witty and fun.

So yeah.

And she was funny.

She was absolutely hysterical.

Like some of her wetticisms are great.

Like one of the things that she said about her father, because he was such a narcissist

was he was the bride at every wedding, the baby at every christening and the corpse at

every funeral.

I'm using that exact same quote in my episode.

That's hilarious.

Yep.

And that is exactly, I know, I know what, what event that we've quote came from.

That was at her own wedding when her dad showed up immediately taking up the spotlight and

talking and the whole room stopped paying attention to the bride.

That was when she was like, yeah, my dad cannot stand to not be the center of attention.

He's jealous of the corpse at a fucking funeral.

Yeah.

It was like, no, he has to be the center of attention.

That was the best Teddy Roosevelt quote I found.

Which is also kind of great because it's like, she was the exact same way.

She was just the, I mean, if there was an heir to Teddy Roosevelt, it would not be Teddy

Roosevelt Jr.

Which technically he's the third, which I always think is weird because they should

call him the third, but they always call him Jr.

Because I guess we don't think of Teddy Roosevelt as, as Teddy Jr.

Yeah, but we come from a country where everybody nicknamed George W. Bush Jr. even though he

wasn't.

And Al Gore was Jr. and we never called him that.

So you know, whatever Americans, we do what we want.

Where do things go from?

Where do things go from here?

So one of the things that happens is her brother, Ted, who, by the way, it's like, at this point,

she wants to pour all of her political clout into her brother.

It's like this was going, because at first she was like, maybe my husband will be my

ticket to the white.

She had three different tickets to the White House, either by her lover, her brother, or

her husband.

None of them got her there.

And one of the reasons that Ted got his, he got his political career railroaded.

And in the meanest and worst way possible, and by Eleanor Roosevelt, the one like nasty

thing she ever did.

She wrecked Ted.

Oh, she wrecked Ted.

Now granted, you have to, okay, we're even going to have to backtrack a little bit before

that because this feud started when Franklin Roosevelt got on the ticket for vice president

because it was the two sets of Roosevelts were feuding.

So Franklin is going around the country, you know, campaigning as vice president.

So instead of doing his own campaign, Ted decides to follow Franklin around saying he's

not really the real Teddy Roosevelt's because people were confused about the Roosevelt name

and kept referring to him as Teddy Roosevelt's son.

And so that really pissed off Ted Jr.

And he went around the country behind Franklin going, no, no, no, no, no, those are the West

Egg Roosevelt's.

We are the East Egg Roosevelt's.

Yes, they called themselves Roosevelt's instead of Roosevelt's and yeah, it was just petty.

Eleanor participated.

It was super petty.

So when Ted decided he was going to get reelected for governor of New York, unfortunately him

and his brother had gotten into a little kerfuffle with this oil scandal.

So I don't want to go into it because it's complicated and it's boring, but the thing

you need to know about it is it was a financial scandal and it was called the Teapot Dome

scandal.

I remember the Teapot Dome scandal.

Yeah, that was a bunch of shenanigans.

It was shenanigans.

So Eleanor Roosevelt actually, they had a car and they made it into a teapot and would

follow him around and let's remind everyone.

Yeah.

And so they would give speeches and do flyers and like they would try to be there like right

before or right after he'd be given a speech in this teapot car.

And it was like the brainchild, Eleanor Roosevelt and Alice could not forgive her for it.

It was like, this was that bitch.

And yeah.

And so this is why I love it because your two favorite Roosevelts are on the opposite

side.

Now they're feuding because before this, they were always really good friends.

And I mean, they grew up together.

They were both orphaned.

They were both half raised by their empire.

But now they're ready for a cage match.

They are ding, ding, ding.

So Franklin Roosevelt wants to become president.

He sure does.

Like a lot.

And until he dies, actually a lot.

And Alice could not have been more fucking furious.

She was so upset by this because her brother didn't get into the White House.

Her lover didn't get into the White House and her husband didn't get into the White

House.

But her fucking ugly ass cousin and her feather duster of a husband, because that's what they

like to call FDR, they said that FD stood for feather duster because he was a, they

thought that he was an intellectual lightweight of the family.

Oh yes.

And FDR, famous, you know, intellectual lightweight, the dunce of the group.

Yes.

But that is how they considered him.

Sure.

And a lot of it was just because Franklin liked to think before he spoke, which was

the opposite of Teddy Roosevelt, whatever thought was just tumbling through his

ridiculous child man brain.

Yes.

So he was considered like the lightweight Eleanor.

She picked the wrong side.

This inferior person in her mind.

And Eleanor, it's like where, you know, she is gorgeous and Eleanor is not traditionally

attractive.

Which, yeah.

Yeah, she was the ugly duckling of her family.

Which cannot help but feed into how our petty beauty is feeling at the moment.

Oh, it is.

Yeah.

And Eleanor famously didn't give a fuck about her appearance either.

As long as she looked tidy, that's all she cared about.

She just wanted to look tidy.

She wanted to look clean and tidy.

She didn't give a shit if the newspaper was telling me how beautiful she was.

Cause she wasn't going to be.

She gave up on that and focused on her strengths.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, she never had that.

She was con...

Both women, oddly enough, considered themselves very shy.

And.

But one of them actually wasn't because obviously Alice does not sound shy.

Yeah.

And she said she was shy because she could not do public speaking.

Like that terrified her.

I, I, I have a phobia of public speaking.

Yeah.

And that has nothing to do with shyness.

I am not shy even a little bit, but I still shit my pants.

If I, and like I can talk into a microphone all day long to like you, but when I actually

give a speech, oh, I hate that.

Yeah.

Like, but she couldn't stand up in front of crowds of people.

So she considered herself shy, which again, that's cool.

She just misunderstood what stage fright versus...

And again, well, and it's so funny.

Cause it's like when you hear reportings of her in interviews and stuff, because she called

herself shy and she said she had no influence.

Well, they just repeated what she said.

She was just there.

Well, it's just like everything that Teddy said, they would just repeat as if it were

true when half of it was bullshit.

She goes down in history as the shy non-fluential woman when in actuality...

The shy woman who was on the cover of the newspaper all the time.

That's how, yeah, that's how you know they're shy.

Yeah.

She would give, she would give statements to the press, but she never gave interviews.

That is until Eleanor Roosevelt started her own, my day, little portion on the radio.

Oh.

So Eleanor started writing column in the newspaper.

And so Alice started writing a column in the newspaper to counteract whatever Eleanor was saying.

And so Eleanor had a spot on the radio.

Alice got a spot on the radio.

So there was just this petty series of media appearances.

Yes.

Going back and forth.

And I found it very funny cause I read several biographies.

And one of her biographies, like it was like, there was some petty stuff about getting into the White House.

There was a little petty stuff while they were at the White House, but then that was it.

I was like, huh, what about World War II?

Did she not have anything to say?

Did she not have any opinions?

Cause it was like completely wiped.

And I was like, that's really strange.

And so I listened to another one and it was more, it was a combination of her and Eleanor Roosevelt called His and Cousins, which is a fun name.

It's a fun read too.

It's, but yeah, it's the back and forth between Eleanor and Alice.

And then we find, and then it's like, we find out what Alice was up to, which was left out of her other biography, which I thought was strange.

So what was the deal?

So Alice started, now granted, this is before, this was when there was fighting over in Europe, but America hadn't joined the war yet.

And Alice didn't want America to join the war.

So she started up a little thing called America First.

Oh yes.

Protesting getting in the war.

And so they decided to put up the very famous Charles Lindbergh as their speaker, their spokesperson, Charles Lindbergh, good friend of Alice Roosevelt.

So, and she got her, her brother Teddy involved and they were big into this organization.

It's nice to see her mixing with the common people.

So she's protesting, not wanting us to get into it.

Her brother's all in and they're all like, America first, don't want to get in another European war.

And then Charles Lindbergh starts getting more and more antisemitic.

And it was just like, fuck the Jews, it's their fault.

And, and then Teddy Roosevelt was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I can't go there.

I'm not going down this hole with you.

So he quits, but Alice in America first actually puts out like statements supporting Charles Lindbergh.

That is until Pearl Harbor.

And after Pearl Harbor, they disband and shut the fuck up.

Well, yeah, as you, as you do, because at that point, regardless of their feelings, the America had very clearly decided it is time.

Yeah.

It was time to get involved and everyone shut the fuck up.

And FDR just kept on being president until he croaked.

FDR kept being president and Alice's brothers who they had all served in World War I.

They got all fucked up during World War I.

And so one of the, one of her brothers died, right?

Yeah.

One of her brothers was shot down during World War I.

And it was really sad too, because, um, according to Eleanor Roosevelt, she didn't know how he had gotten in the Air Force

anyway, because he had to have memorized the eye chart.

He didn't have good eyesight.

So, but yeah, her brother Quentin was shot down during World War II.

And her brother Kermit was stationed overseas, kind of out of a way from the fighting, but he was a bad alcoholic.

He kept going in and out of sanatoriums for alcoholism and Eleanor Roosevelt kept having to call in the FBI to find him.

So they kind of shipped him off somewhere quietly and he committed suicide while on active duty.

So there was a lot of tragedy that surrounds the family during World War II.

But again, at this point, Alice just shuts up and gets on board.

Oh yeah.

America is fighting the Axis powers.

Yeah.

And it's like, so during World War II, she doesn't have a whole lot to say, except for when FDR wants to run for that third term.

Very much really you pissed her off.

And it pissed her off to absolutely no end.

And she was, you know, this is a monarchy.

You can't run for a third term.

Granted, her dad ran for a third term and that was fine.

That was different because he left office for a little while and he was going to come back.

And again, he wasn't elected that first time.

He was kind of thrown into the situation.

So, like, she makes all kinds of excuses.

And even though it's like some of her father's principles, like his political stuff, would have been the same as FDR's, one of the things was Social Security.

FDR wanted Social Security.

Teddy Roosevelt wanted Social Security.

But because Franklin wanted it, Alice thought it was bad.

Got it.

Kind of deal.

She shit on every fucking thing that he did, pretty much.

In fact, the only thing that she agreed with was putting Frances Perkins in office.

She was all about something we all agree on.

We were all all about Frances Perkins.

But I mean, and she was all for having women in office.

She just didn't want to run herself.

So, World War Two is kind of, she was quiet-ish, for a lot of it.

Considering how she started things, I imagine it was that if she spoke up, somebody might say, what about that thing your boy said about the Jews?

So she made sense that she decided to keep her mouth shut.

Yeah, I mean, and again, it's not like she was keeping her mouth completely shut.

I mean, her radio show was canceled.

Her column was canceled and, you know, kept that shit up until she was a very old lady and dying.

Alice got a little canceled, I guess.

Well, I mean, her, well, her publications got canceled.

I mean, she also, she wrote a biography, she did some stuff.

And even though it's like privately, she was like terrible to Eleanor Roosevelt.

Like she made fun of her and like even publicly spoke out against the Roosevelts, but she was still going to the White House.

Their children were, she would bring Paulina to go see them and like the family connection was always still there.

Like when they were in the White House, they had one of her birthday parties there.

Even though it's like they had run an official thing, it's like she was banned from the White House.

And that was, and it's so funny because there was actually a lot of news that she's like, oh, yeah, she was banned from the White House several times.

It's like she was never banned from the White House.

She just didn't get invited to the White House because sometimes she was mean.

But her daughter grows up and her daughter, who, she was a shy, awkward little girl.

And so when she would talk, she would start to stutter and it would frustrate her mom.

So her mom started finishing her sentences for her, which is like the worst thing in the world you can do for a child that stutters.

So she grew up to be really shy and really introverted.

And of course, she was self-conscious about trying to talk.

Well, and it's like her mom was so famous and it's like even as a little girl, it's like they have so many pictures of her and it's like she's never smiling.

She's not a happy child.

That sucks.

It sucks.

So eventually, Polina grows up and she marries this guy, Alexander McCormick, and she has a daughter, Joanna.

And so Polina's husband dies in 1951 and then six years later, Polina dies of overdose.

Ooh.

Yeah.

What was she taking?

Sleeping pills.

So she dies from sleeping pills.

And Alice, who admit she was a terrible mother.

She did not do well by her daughter.

And her daughter died sad and young, leaving this nine-year-old granddaughter who Alice takes in and raises.

Does she try harder this time?

And she tries so much harder this time.

Like, even though it's like, again, Alice famously hated being touched and, you know, didn't hug her daughter all the time.

So she made sure to hug her granddaughter all the time.

Like, she was overly affectionate.

She was overly doting.

She overcorrected.

Yeah, sort of.

And it's like she became this mom, grandma, best friend and was super, super close to her granddaughter, Joanna.

So, I mean, there's both positive and negative things about that, but, you know, you do the best you can.

Yeah.

So at this point, Alice has become an old lady and she is still a fixture in Washington.

At this point, she's like an institution.

She is the institution of Washington.

In fact, to the point where they started calling her the other Washington monument.

That was her nickname.

Everyone has to make a pilgrimage to see the Alice.

So Alice became really good friends with the Kennedys and she also became really good friends with the Nixons.

Yeah, all these, just these little nobody families that aren't going anywhere.

But she absolutely loved the Kennedys.

She thought they were great.

Like her and Bobby would sit in a corner and like gossip, like children in corners together.

But also liked Nixon.

And yet also was friends with Nixon and helped him with some of his campaigns and helped him bring up, she helped bring him up politically.

And so, and you know, Alice was a lifelong Republican and the only time she ever crossed party lines and voted Democrat was for LBJ.

She loved LBJ.

They were really good friends.

And at one point, there's a quote from her and he was like, why do you wear all these big hats?

And she was like, I wear this big, big brimmed hat so you can't kiss me.

Because that's the kind of bitch she was.

Nice.

She was very, very funny.

In fact, some of her like witticisms were so scathing, like they hurt people's political shit.

She demolished Thomas Dewey by calling him the bridegroom on top of a wedding cake.

Which got into the papers, which kind of like destroyed him, which is very funny.

Although I have to say my very favorite quote from her is Joe McCarthy.

So this, that the asshole, Joseph McCarthy quote, he had jokingly remarked at a party quote, here's my blind date.

I'm going to call you Alice.

She sarcastically said, Senator McCarthy, you are not going to call me Alice.

The truck man, the trash man and the policeman on my block might call me Alice, but you may not.

She was really good friends with, with Nixon and like she supported him and was vocal for him all the way up to the Watergate scandal.

And she was just like, I can't do this no more.

Where she was like, eh.

Well, her endorsements are sketchy so far, you know, hit and miss, I would say based on the story you told me.

She's very fun.

I, and again, it's like someone who's such a mixed bag.

It's very funny.

So how do things end up for, for Alice?

So Alice stays a strong institution in Washington throughout her entire life.

She met every president pretty much from when she was six all the way up until she was 96.

Damn.

Yeah.

Um, she met all the presidents except for the Carters.

She, she didn't meet the Carters.

She refused to meet them, but she had, was going through breast cancer.

So she actually had, she went through, she had breast, this bitch had breast cancer twice and fought it.

Nice.

Yeah.

And this is like, she had, um, a mastectomy, one mastectomy in like the sixties and then another one in her seventies.

And, uh, she described herself as being the only, um, topless oxygenarian in Washington.

She was a fun old bitch and, uh, yeah.

And so she lived until she was 96 years old.

Damn.

Almost made it to the century, Mark.

1980 was when she finally...

We were both alive at the same time as Alice.

I had no idea she lived that long.

She lived that long and she was influential for that long.

Um, although I think she stopped really putting, being a vocal force for it after Nancy.

Right.

So, yeah.

And there's only a few more years of her life there.

Yeah.

Well, that's cool.

But that is the story of Alice Roosevelt.

Alice Roosevelt, wild child turned into Nixon's supporter.

Alice Lee Roosevelt Longworth.

May she rest in peace.

Well, there you go.

She was fun, interesting.

Oh yeah.

She was just an interesting, funny old bitch.

I just think it's funny too, that she had this rivalry with your favorite Roosevelt of them all.

She did.

And, but you know, what's funny is that, but they were also very close.

Like the silver cigarette holder that FDR is famous for, like his little signature thing.

She gave it to him as a gift.

It was like a Christmas present.

It's like, she was always there.

Especially considering she was born before Eleanor and died long after.

Right.

Cause she just lived forever.

Man, old bitches are hard to kill.

She pickled herself with booze her whole life and preserve herself well.

Well, that's the funny thing.

She was only a moderate drinker.

She, she was not a big drinker.

Not like her husband had been.

Yeah.

Like, I mean, especially cause all the alcoholics in her life kind of turned her off from booze.

So, but yeah, she, she was not pickled.

She, but she was a heavy smoker, lost two breasts.

That'll get you.

Well, cool.

That's Alice Roosevelt.

That was our bonus episode.

Thank you everybody for listening.

Be sure to check out chainsawhistory.com for our other episodes, full show notes, other cool stuff.

In that case, we will catch you on the next regular or bonus episode of Chainsaw History.