Christine Reed is a thruhiker, trailrunner, vanlifer and author. She tours the country doing speaking engagements to promote women in the outdoors and her two books. Between those events, she recharges by running away into the woods for some alone time with nature.

Social media links

instagram and tiktok @ruggedoutdoorswoman

Link to website

www.ruggedoutdoorswoman.com

**Comprehensive Sequence of Topics**

1. **Christine Reed's Reluctance to Film Emotional Experiences**

- Prefers to process and share through writing and poetry

- Discussion of human behavior's voyeuristic nature

2. **Career Journey of Christine Reed**

- Early career in a desk job

- Inspiration from an Appalachian Trail blog

- Transition to hiking, living in a van, and writing a book

- Expansion into a publishing company

3. **Connecting with People Through Personal Stories**

- Value of sharing personal stories

- Inspiration behind helping others publish their stories

- Support for women’s outdoor stories due to lack of big publishers

4. **Healing and Solace in Nature**

- Hiking as a core part of her life

- Living in a van and choosing a smaller van due to financial reasons

- Quilt made by her mother as a source of peace

5. **"Sandwich Punch" Game and Hot Dog Debate**

- Explanation of the game "sandwich punch"

- Rules of the game and their relevance to the hot dog debate

- Discussion about a hot dog being considered a sandwich

- Host’s disbelief and humor about the game and punching an Oreo cookie

6. **Christine's Social Media Presence**

- Information about where listeners can find her on Instagram, TikTok, and her website

- Discussion on commercialization of authenticity on Instagram

- Pressure to share vulnerable moments and desire for personal processing time

7. **Public Speaking and Introversion**

- Moving away from giving speeches to help others in self-publishing

- Impact of introversion on work and life

- Balancing public speaking with alone time for energy management

- Approach to social media based on personal comfort over algorithms

8. **Closing Remarks**

- Summarizing discussion by the host

- Thanks to Christine Reed

- Surprise question about the hot dog being a sandwich

Hello, and welcome to The traveling introvert Career conversations. I am here today with Christine Reid, and, we are gonna dial delve dive both, Delvey, Delvey, into, talking about the kind of work that she does now, the work she's done in the past, and, how she likes to recharge among many other questions. Hi, Christine. How are you today?

I'm wonderful. Thank you for having me.

Uh-huh. Yeah. That's great. It's it's it's, it's a real pleasure to have you here. And so the first question I ask everybody is, for you, what does introversion mean to you?

Oh, I think it has a lot to do with the amount of energy that spending time with other people expends. So as somebody who, like, does public speaking professionally and does a lot of things that might appear extroverted, I think that the core of my introversion is really in the fact that after I do those things, I have to go home and crawl, underneath the Career and be alone. And the amount of time I spend with people is, like, directly correlated to the amount of time I, like, then need to be by myself afterwards.

Okay. That's good to know. It's interesting what you mentioned about public speaking and how it might appear extroverted. Where do you think that comes from where people kind of make the assumption that if you do public speaking, you must be an extrovert?

I think because if it's so difficult, why would you do it? Public speaking is something I feel like even a lot of extroverts don't wanna do. But, yeah, just because something is taxing or uncomfortable, it doesn't mean that you don't think it's important or that you might be good at it. I think I have a lot of skills that are also challenging for me, and I think a lot of us do. Like, we we find that we are good at things that doesn't necessarily mean they're things that come easily or that we enjoy them. Not that I don't enjoy those things. I'm like, oh, am I taking myself a hole here? But just like I I do enjoy those things, and I enjoy being in a room with people, but then it is also exhausting to me. So I think we can, like, hold both of those things. That's true.

Yeah. It it doesn't have to be a a one or the other. It can be both and and The message that you are giving makes it worthwhile, right, and the things that you are talking about and the people's lives that you connect with and change. So you mentioned that there might be some other taxing skills that you have. Like what?

Oh gosh. I like, the whole social media shtick is just, like, an absolute toll on me. But I have made some really wonderful friends through social media, and it also has helped me grow my business. And, like, those things are important, and I'm willing to do them. But many times, I think I could just throw my phone away and probably be super happy with that decision.

So tell me, you say social media. Tell me a little bit about the systems you've set up, hopefully, to help produce kind of hard content with somebody or what you currently do and how you, how you recharge from doing that.

Yeah. I have to say, I think that my, quote, unquote, system is just, like, do it when it feels doable and don't when it doesn't. And that's not great for the algorithm. But but it works for me. And I will say, like, the people who follow me, the people who've read my book and who, like, interact with me on social media because they connected with my story and who I am, and they wanna see what I'm doing. Like, they actually don't care if I don't post anything for a month. So, like, the human side of social media is not impacted by my not, like, playing the algorithm correctly. And so I just find that when I am socially exhausted, I just don't post anything.

And then when I feel like doing it again, I do. And I'm sure there are lots of better ways I could handle I could handle my business on social media. But I have found that that works for me, and so that's that's my game.

It's interesting that you said better, but yet it does work for you. So define better if it's working and it's and it's producing the results that you want if it ain't broke kinda thing.

Totally. Yeah. And I think we I mean, we like, I say better, and I guess you could measure that in, like, metrics of, like, followers and interaction and, like, how many books I'm selling. Right? Like, there's all kind of metrics you could apply to, like, whether a social media is working or not for me, as a business person. But I think as much as I don't think about social media as, like, something I do for my personal benefit, like, I really do think of it as a part of my business. I also do think about how it impacts me as a human and, like, my feelings, because it's set up that way. Right? Like, Instagram is set up to manipulate our feelings and to, like, get us addicted to it. I don't know if

anybody listening has an Instagram representative.

But it is I mean, it's it's designed to affect how we feel, and it does affect how we feel. And I think that as, like, an autonomous person, I should get to decide how I want to interact with it.

Yeah.

And so I guess that's better for me is, like, how is it making me feel?

Right. Yeah. No. That that that is true. And so many times we, I say we, business owners, are told, like, you have to do social media and you have to do it. You have to be consistent or you have to have themes or you have to have pillars of content. Yes. And

Also be a person.

Also be a human being and express that. Like, I'm not gonna be around for a month. I'm not dead. I'm I'm fine. I just I'm going on vacation The I don't wanna post everything. I'm just in my bed. Don't wanna post. You don't need to know about this.

And so where do you draw the line, especially with the kind of work that you do of sharing yourself online.

Yeah. I mean, I think also in the last few years that Instagram has sort of, like, commercialized authenticity and made it so that we have to be, like, vulnerable all the time and, like, revealing ourselves all the time. And it's just like, like, I am a real human being, and there are lots of things I can share and be vulnerable about. But, like, at a certain point, I've kinda told you everything and, like, what am what is The life to say? And I also like, my original product was a memoir, a story about my life. And there was lots of vulnerable details in that and like, it's already out there. Like, I guess I just don't feel like I need to continue all the time to be this, like, production of vulnerability. And so it is interesting, like, where does the line fall? Because I have shared so much with myself already, so it's not like I have any secrets or, like, people don't know. But, also, sometimes when you're, like, in the act of something happening, it's like, I need time to process this myself.

I need time to experience my own experience without getting the camera out and being, like, I am in the grips right now of an emotional experience. Let me film it for you. So I do feel like there's, like, such extremes that people take it to. And And I don't know that I have any, like, hard and fast rules, but I will say that I don't think I've ever gotten The camera out when I was, like, in an experience, like, an emotional experience and been, like, I wanna share this with people because I guess I like I'm just not living my life that way. I'm happy to talk about those things later, and I like to write about things as a form of processing. I enjoy writing poetry and doing, like, performance poetry. And that can be very vulnerable and very emotional. But it's not it's not in of the moment.

Right? Like, that's later. Like, I can tell you a story about something that happened. I'm not going to film it as it's Traveling, if that makes sense.

Yeah. It totally does. Yes. Yeah. But we're so voyeuristic as humans that we're just like, but we want we want all the drama and the tea and the llama and, like, and it goes through with you.

My best friend all the time is like, you just need a camera crew to follow you around. And I'm like, I like, absolutely not. But only because of, like, wild things happen in my life on a regular basis, and just just like, if people would see The, and I'm like, I'll tell you about it. You're my best friend. Like, I will call you immediately afterwards and be like, you'll never believe what just happened. Yeah. But, like, the world doesn't need a 100% access, you know done. Day to day.

Yeah.

That's what famous people do. They just hire someone, like, you're gonna come around with me and, like, film me playing golf just because I'm famous enough The that's a thing.

I'm, like, certainly not famous enough for that. Like, great. Now I'm a Kardashian.

Right? It's like, I like to be famous because for the The, but then at a certain point, I I wanna be famous enough that I I can live comfortably and retire happily, but people don't need to stop me in the street and know who the hell I am. Thanks. Fucking getting that level.

Whatever's right below being recognized in the street.

Exactly that. So, obviously, now you do public speaking and you you you've written a book and and other things going on. Scroll back 20 or 30 years ago. What were you doing?

Oh my gosh. 30 years ago, I was in pre k. Before I sort of went on this journey, I like, in my early twenties, I graduated from college, and I was working at a health insurance company in Little Rock, Arkansas. Sit in a desk and doing, like, clicky clack keyboard things. Yeah. And then I I sort of looked around and was just like, I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing now. Like, I had gotten good grades. I graduated from college.

I had a job making more money than I knew what to do with. And but, like, not an obscene amount. I know people say The, and you think I'm, like, rolling until I was making, like, $40,000 a year.

I was, like, not even a

large amount of money. But I was 22 and I was just like, I don't really know what I'm supposed to do now. Like, I wasn't ready to buy a house and settle down. I didn't have a partner. I sort of had this idea that I needed to, like, get married and, like, have a baby or something because that's what people are supposed to do. But on, like, a personal level, I didn't really have any goals or plans, and I'd never really set any goals for myself because the world had always done that for me. And I just recognized that I didn't know how to decide what to do if no one else was telling me what to do. And so I stumbled across a blog about the Appalachian Trail.

And I just thought, like, that sounds crazy. And the people talking about it were saying, like, the AT helped me figure out who I was and what I wanted out of life, and it changed me as a person. And and people really talked about it with these, like, romantic ideas about, like, becoming yourself through the act of, like, hiking for a really long time. And I was not an active person. I was not a fit person. I was not an outdoorsy person. I had been on a couple of hikes in my life and really not enjoyed them. And I just was like, you know what? Like, this will be hard.

It'll be challenging. I haven't really ever done hard things in my life. Everything has always come really easily to me in the academic world, and that's the only world I'd have really existed in.

Mhmm.

And so I was like, I think I'm gonna do this hiking thing. I'm gonna go hike for 6 months and then hopefully be a better person afterwards. And then I ended up here. Is that like, what is that the end of the story? Okay. Wait. So I I I attempted to to through hike the Appalachian Trail in 2015. So I guess that was almost 10 years ago now. And then after that, I moved into my first van.

I started traveling, like, living on the road. I did some other long hikes, and that sort of snowballed into writing a book about The of my hikes. Then I became a published author. I went on book tour. I traveled around in my van giving speeches and sleeping in my car. And then, now I'm publishing a second book. That's a short story collection with a bunch of stories from other people, and I'm growing my business into a publishing company where I'm, like, accepting manuscripts from other writers and helping other people put their stories out into the world so that I can, like, continue to do this, continue to tell empowering compelling stories, but not have to be the one giving speeches.

And why have you I don't know if it's I don't know if it's a pivot necessary, but why are you now adding to, your business in this way with the wording that, so I'm not the one giving speeches?

I think there's something to be said for telling telling your story, and connecting to people through your story. And and the experience of putting my first book out into the world, and and having people read my personal story and then reach out to me and say, thank you for telling this story, and this is how I related to it. And oftentimes, people would then send me these, like, long like, them telling me their life story. And I'm like, thank you. Like, that's so lovely. It's lovely that someone read my story and wanted them to share back, and that just, like, goes to show the level of connection that is possible through The written word. So I did The, and I I did try to write a second book for a while, and I think eventually I will write a second book. But I was really struggling with that, and I just started to realize that, like, I only really have my story to tell, and I think there's so much value in so many people's stories who have different perspectives and different life experiences than I do.

And I don't know that all of them want to figure out all of the really challenging parts of publishing and putting a book out there. And so I'm like, okay. Maybe there's a bunch of people who have stories to tell and even the skill to write it down, but then don't really know where to go or what to do from The. Because the self publishing world is it's really overwhelming, and there's so many different skills that you have to learn to, like, do the thing one time. And I actually I really I, like, I did all that research, and I figured all those things out, and I made lots of connections, and I've networked in the outdoor world. And I was like, you know, I've I've done all this work, and it would be really cool if I could help other people use all the resources that I created for myself rather than every single person trying to go and figure out how to get their book on the shelf at a store, or how to schedule a book tour event, or how to find somebody to edit their words, or find somebody to design a book cover, or, like, there's just all these little things that have to be done.

And that's definitely The versions of a book cover and

yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And so especially in the in the outdoor world, like, the hiking books world, like, there's just not a lot of the big publishers are not willing to put those books out even though Wilde was, like, one of the most successful books, in a long time. But, like, a lot of publishers are not interested in outdoor stories. And so I was like, this is a niche. I think there should be more women's outdoor stories out there, and I can help make that happen. So instead of just telling my story over and over again, I was like, let's get some other people's stories out.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting what big big companies, big organizations, big publishers see as viable and and things that aren't viable. It'll be a discussion for a different time. But with everything that you've talked about, can you tell me 1 or maybe 2 things that you've done on a semi regular basis that has helped you maybe with public speaking or setting up now this publishing business?

Just things that I have done. I guess as related to, like, the introversion thing, like, I have found over the course of the last few years as I've done a lot of public speaking as I've continued to write and network and and, like, make connections in the outdoor world, that going back to the trail is, like, always my healing place. And so in between book tours, in between writing, like, I hike. And I'm, like, immensely grateful and also, like, recognize the serendipity of having just sort of stumbled across this at 23 and been like, that sounds crazy. I'm gonna do that. And now it's such a core part of my life. And also, it's what I always come back to. Like, you can always go to the trail.

There's always a trail nearby. It's a really good place to be alone. It's also a really good place to meet people who don't sap your energy the same way quote, unquote normal people do. Like, when I go on trail, I know I'm gonna meet other, like, dirt bags who are just out there trying to, like, connect with nature and be alone or be out away from the city, and, like, not shower for 5 days at a time. And I'm like, these are my people. You know?

I I very much hear that. I was walking in a place near near me. I've got my headphones in. The other human has their headphones in, so I'm just walking, and they're like, hi. The auto automatic sign of don't talk to me. I got headphones on. I'm obviously, like, leaving a voice message for someone. The why are you people.

So as someone who likes traveling and going outdoors, random question for you because, you know, you mentioned after speaking, you might like to go under the duvet and hang out. If you leave the house to go to your car, which is in your driveway, does that count as leaving the house?

I don't have a house. So

Van to another van?

If I go from The van to another van. I do think the nice thing about living in a van is that you're kind of technically always outside. So I suppose if I believe that, then I must also believe that going to your car is outside. Outside. But the other nice thing, like, in I'm I'm on my 3rd van because I've been living, in Janice for 6 years now. So I'm but right now, I'm living in like a pretty small minivan and there's actually just like not really anywhere to hang out in there. So I'm either like in bed or I'm not in the van. And so it sort of forces me outside all the time, which is sometimes uncomfortable because I'm like, it's raining and cold, and I don't wanna lay in bed all day, but that is my only option today.

But I do think that that when I bought my first van, I named my first van Celeste because I wanted to be closer to the celestial bodies by being outside all the time. And I do think that was I I don't think I could have put words to it at that The. But now knowing what I know about, like, how I deal with stress and things, I'm like, oh, I see what I was doing there. You know?

I have questions about the van, but, because you mentioned now it's a mini. It's a smaller van. Was that intentional?

It was intentional because I didn't have enough money for a big van.

Yeah. And what is the one item that you have that, either brings you peace or solace or, grounds you?

I have the quilt that my mother made for me when I was getting my first big girl bed, when I, like, graduated out of a crib. She made a quilt, and it has, like, the letters of the alphabet stitched on it. And it is in absolute tatters. Like, they're all the pieces are just, like, falling apart. But it was on my bed all through my childhood, and then it went in a box for some years. And then when I moved out of my last house and I was like, I can't just have things in boxes, it went back on my bed. And it's, like, a really lovely thing to have all the time around.

Thank you for sharing that. That's that's lovely. Alright. So, it has been great talking to you, and I have so many more questions, but I have to I have to rein it in. Last question for you. It's a surprise question. It's in your opinion, in your esteemed opinion, is and I've asked this peep this question to people who are vegan, vegetarian, whatever, but in generals generally speaking, is a hot dog a sandwich?

Oh my god. Can I can we go, like, a little off the rails here? Yes. Have you ever heard of the game sandwich punch?

No.

Okay. An ex of mine from many years ago and his coworkers used to play a game called sandwich punch, and it was if you leave a sandwich unattended, without putting something over it, they are gonna punch and mutilate your sandwich. And I don't know why so many people are weaving sandwiches unattended, but the rule stated that anything that was two layers of the same thing with something in between was a sandwich. So it could be a sandwich. It could be a hot dog. It could be, like an Oreo cookie, sandwich cookie. Anything that could constitute a sandwich, and then they had to put something over it like a napkin or something to say, like, don't punch my sandwich. But I would say by the rules of sandwich punch, a hot dog is a sandwich.

And I feel like those those are rules I applied.

Alright. That that is an answer we have never had. Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. So can you tell I'm gonna go Google that. Can you tell the listener? I just imagine something like punching an Oreo cookie, and I'm like, why would you do that?

That was also the thing that I was like, that seems to get what hurt to do.

Well, I messed up a perfectly good cookie, like, just just eat it instead, but why do you have to, like not not saying you should eat other people's food, I'm just I punching it all something. Anyway, so can you please tell the listeners where they can find out more about you and the work that you do, please?

Yes. You can find me on Instagram or TikTok. My handle is rugged outdoors woman. My website is rugged outdoors woman.com. And that is where you can purchase books and also some sweet, like, women in the outdoors, merch, stickers, and such. Yeah. And Instagram is definitely is the best place if you want to speak to me. Send me a DM.

I'm super accessible there.

Alright. Thank you so very much. I really appreciate it. This is Janice from The Career Intrepid helping you build your brand and get hired. This is the, Career conversation particular episode. Hello, and welcome to The traveling introvert Career conversations. I am here today with Christine Reid, and, we are gonna dial delve dive both Delvey Delvey into, talking about the kind of work that she does now, the work she's done in the past, and, how she likes to recharge among many other questions. Hi, Christine.

How are you today?

I'm wonderful. Thank you for having me.

Uh-huh. Yeah. That's great. It's it's it's, it's a real pleasure to have you here. And so the first question I ask everybody is, for you, what does introversion mean to you? Oh,

I think it has a lot to do with the amount of energy that spending time with other people expense. So as somebody who, like, does public speaking professionally and does a lot of things that might appear extroverted, I think that the core of my introversion is really in the fact that after I do those things, I have to go home and crawl, underneath the Career of being alone. And the amount of time I spend with people is, like, directly correlated to the amount of time I, like, then need to be by myself afterwards.

Okay. That's good to know. It's interesting what you mentioned about public speaking and how it might appear extroverted. Where do you think that comes from where people kind of make the assumption that if you do public speaking, you must be an extrovert?

I think because if it's so difficult, why would you do it? Public speaking is something I feel like even a lot of extroverts don't wanna do. But, yeah, just because something is taxing or uncomfortable, it doesn't mean that you don't think it's important or that you might be good at it. I think I have a lot of skills that are also challenging for me, and I think a lot of us do. Like, we we find that we are good at things that doesn't necessarily mean they're things that come easily or that we enjoy them. Not that I don't enjoy those things. I'm like, oh, am I taking myself a hole here? But just like, I I do enjoy those things, and I enjoy being in a room with people, but then it is also exhausting to me. So I think we can, like, hold both of those things. That's true.

Yeah. It it doesn't have to be a a one or the other. It can be both, and and The message that you are giving makes it worthwhile, right, and the things that you are talking about and the people's lives that you connect with and change.

So

you mentioned that there might be some other taxing skills that you have, like 1.

Oh gosh. I like, the whole social media shtick is just, like, an absolute toll on me. But I have made some really wonderful friends through social media, and it also has helped me grow my business. And, like, those things are important, and I'm willing to do them. But many times I think I could just throw my phone away and probably be super happy with that decision.

So tell me, you say social media. Tell me a little bit about the systems you've set up, hopefully, to help produce kind of bad content. What's your job? Or what you currently do and how you, how you recharge from doing that.

Yeah. I have to say, I think that my quote, unquote system is just, like, do it when it feels doable and don't when it doesn't. And that's not great for the algorithm. But but it works for me. And I will say, like, the people who follow me, the people who've read my book, and who, like, interact with me on social media because they connected with my story and who I am, and they wanna see what I'm doing. Like, they actually don't care if I don't post anything for a month. So, like, the human side of social media is not impacted by my not, like, playing the algorithm correctly. And so I just find that when I am socially exhausted, I just don't post anything.

And then when I feel like doing it again, I do. And I'm sure there are lots of better ways I could handle I could handle my business on social media. But I have found that that works for me, and so that's that's my game.

It's interesting that you said better, but yet it does work for you. So define better if it's working and it's and it's producing the results that you want if it ain't broke kinda thing.

Totally. Yeah. And I think we I mean, we like, I say better, and I guess you could measure that in, like, metrics of, like, followers and interaction and, like, how many books I'm selling. Right? Like, there's all kind of metrics you could apply to, like, whether a social media is working or not for me, as a business person. But I think as much as I don't think about social media as, like, something I do for my personal benefit, like, I really do think of it as a part of my business. I also do think about how it impacts me as a human and, like, my feelings, because it's set up that way. Right? Like, Instagram is set up to manipulate our feelings and to, like, get us to

to do it. I hope nobody listening is an Instagram representative.

But it is I mean, it's it's designed to affect how we feel, and it does affect how we feel. And I think that as, like, an autonomous person, I should get to decide how I want to interact with it.

Yeah.

And so I guess that's better for me is, like, how is it making me feel?

Right. Yeah. No. That that that is true. And so many times we, I say we, business owners are told like you have to do social media and you have to do it. You have to be consistent or you have to have themes or you have to have pillars of content. Yes. And

Also be a person.

Also be a human being and express that. Like, I'm not gonna be around for a month. I'm not dead. I'm I'm fine. I just I'm going on vacation, and I don't wanna post everything. I'm just in my bed. Don't wanna post. You don't need to know about The.

And so where do you draw the line, especially with the kind of work that you do of sharing yourself online?

Yeah. I mean, I think also in the last few years that Instagram has sort of, like, commercialized authenticity and made it so that we have to be, like, vulnerable all the time and, like, revealing ourselves all the time. And it's just this, like like, I am a real human being, and there are lots of things I can share and be vulnerable about. But, like, at a certain point, I've kinda told you everything. And, like, what am what is The left to say? And I also like, my original product was a memoir, a story about my life, and there was lots of vulnerable details in The. And, like, it's already out there. Like, I guess I just don't feel like I need to continue all the time to be this, like, production of vulnerability. And so it is interesting, like, where does the line fall? Because I have shared so much with myself already, so it's not like I have any secrets or, like, people don't know.

But also sometimes when you're, like, in the act of something happening, it's like, I need time to process this myself. I need time to experience my own experience without getting the camera out and being like, I am in the grips right now of an emotional experience. Let me film it for you. So I do feel like there's, like, such extremes that people take it to. And I don't know that I have any, like, hard and fast rules, but I will say that I don't think I've ever gotten The camera out when I was, like, in in experience, like, an emotional experience and been, like, I wanna share this with people because I guess I like I'm just not living my life that way. I'm happy to talk about those things later, and I like to write about things as a form of processing. I enjoy writing poetry and doing, like, performance poetry, and that can be very vulnerable and very emotional. But it's not it's not in of the moment.

Right? Like, that's later. Like, I can tell you a story about something that happened. I'm not going to film it as it's traveling, if that makes sense.

Yeah. It totally does. Yes. Yeah. But we're so voyeuristic as humans that we're just like, but we want we want all the drama and the tea and the llama and, like and it goes through with you.

My best friend all the time is like, you just need a camera crew to follow you around. And I'm like, I like, absolutely not. But only because of, like, wild things happen in my life on a regular basis, and she's just like, if people would see The. And I'm like, I'll tell you about it. You're my best friend. Like, I will call you immediately afterwards and be like, you'll never believe what just happened. Yeah. But, like, the world doesn't need a 100% access, you know, to the day to day.

Yeah.

That's what famous people do. They just hire someone, like, you're gonna come around with me and, like, film me playing golf just because I'm famous enough that that's a thing.

I'm, like, certainly not famous enough for that. Like, great. Now I'm a Kardashian.

Right? Like, I like to be famous because for the The, but then at a certain point, I I wanna be famous enough that I I can live comfortably and retire happily, but people don't need to stop me in the street and know who the hell I am. Thanks. Fucking getting that level.

Whatever's right below being recognized in the street.

Exactly that. So, obviously, now you do public speaking and you you you've written a book and and other things going on. Scroll back 20 or 30 years ago. What were you doing?

Oh my gosh. 30 years ago, I was in pre k. Before I sort of went on this journey, I like, in my early twenties, I graduated from college, and I was working at a health insurance company in Little Rock, Arkansas. Sit in a desk and doing, like, clicky clack keyboard things. Yeah. And then I I sort of looked around and was just like, I don't really know what I'm supposed to be doing now. Like, I had gotten good grades. I graduated from college.

I had a job making more money than I knew what to do with. And but, like, not an obscene amount. I know people say The, and you think I'm, like, rolling until I was making, like, $40,000 a year.

I was, like, not even a

large amount of money. But I was 22, and I was just like, I don't really know what I'm supposed to do now. Like, I wasn't ready to buy a house and settle down. I didn't have a partner. I sort of had this idea that I needed to, like, get married and, like, have a baby or something because that's what people are supposed to do. But on, like, a personal level, I didn't really have any goals or plans, and I'd never really set any goals for myself because the world had always done that for me. And I just recognized that I didn't know how to decide what to do if no one else was telling me what to do. And so I stumbled across a blog about the Appalachian Trail, and I just thought, like, that sounds crazy.

And the people talking about it were saying, like, the AT helped me figure out who I was and what I wanted out of life, and it changed me as a person. And and people really talked about it with these, like, romantic ideas about, like, becoming yourself through the act of, like, hiking for a really long time. And I was not an active person. I was not a fit person. I was not an outdoorsy person. I had been on a couple of hikes in my life and really not enjoyed them. And I just was like, you know what? Like, this will be hard. It'll be challenging.

I haven't really ever done hard things in my life. Everything has always come really easily to me in the academic world, and that's the only world I'd have really existed in. Mhmm. And so I was like, I think I'm gonna do this hiking thing. I'm just gonna go hike for 6 months and then hopefully be a better person afterwards. And then I ended up here. Is that like, what is that the end of the story? Okay. Wait.

So I I I attempted to through hike the Appalachian Trail in 2015. So I guess that was almost 10 years ago now. And then after that, I moved into my first van. I started traveling, like, living on the road. I did some other long hikes, and that sort of snowballed into writing a book about The of my hikes. Then I became a published author. I went on book tour. I traveled around in my van giving speeches and sleeping in my car.

And then, now I'm publishing a second book. That's a short story collection with a bunch of stories from other people, and I'm growing my business into a publishing company where I'm, like, accepting manuscripts from other writers and helping other people put their stories out into the world so that I can, like, continue to do this, continue to tell empowering compelling stories, but not have to be the one giving speeches.

And why have you I don't know if it's I don't know if it's a pivot necessarily, but why are you now adding to, your business in this way with The wording that so I'm not the one giving speeches?

I think there's something to be said for telling telling your story, and connecting to people through your story. And and the experience of putting my first book out into the world, and and having people read my personal story and then reach out to me and say, thank thank you for telling The story, and this is how I related to it. And oftentimes, people would then send me these, like, long like, them telling me their life story. And I'm like, thank you. Like, that's so lovely. It's lovely that someone read my story and wanted them to share back, and that just, like, goes to show the level of connection that is possible through The written word. Mhmm. So I did The, and I I did try to write a second book for a while, and I think eventually I will write a second book.

But I was really struggling with that, and I just started to realize that, like, I only really have my story to tell, and I think there's so much value in so many people's stories who have different perspectives and different life experiences than I do. And I don't know that all of them want to figure out all of the really challenging parts of publishing and putting a book out there. And so I'm like, okay. Maybe there's a bunch of people who have stories to tell and even the skill to write it down, but then don't really know where to go or what to do from The. Because the self publishing world is it's really overwhelming, and there's so many different skills that you have to learn to, like, do the thing one time. And I actually I really I, like, I did all that research, and I figured all those things out. And I made lots of connections, and I've networked in the outdoor world. And I was like, you know, I've I've done all this work, and it would be really cool if I could help other people use all the resources that I created for myself rather than every single person trying to go and figure out how to get their book on the shelf at a store, or how to schedule a book tour event, or how to find somebody to edit their words, or find somebody to design a book cover, or, like, there's just all these little things that have to be done.

And that's a good question. Of a book cover

and Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And so especially in the in the outdoor world, like, the hiking books books world, like, there's just not a lot of the big publishers are not willing to put those books out even though Wild was, like, one of the most successful books, in a long time. But, like, a lot of publishers are not interested in outdoor stories. And so I was like, this is a niche. I think there should be more women's outdoor stories out there, and I can help make that happen. So instead of just telling my story over and over again, I was like, let's get some other people's stories out.

Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting what big big companies, big organizations, big publishers see as viable and and things that aren't viable. A discussion for a different time. But with everything that you've talked about, can you tell me 1 or maybe 2 things that you've done on a semi regular basis that has helped you maybe with public speaking or setting up now this publishing business?

Just things that I have done. I guess as related to, like, the introversion thing, like, I have found over the course of the last few years as I've done a lot of public speaking, as I've continued to write and network and and, like, make connections in the outdoor world, that going back to the trail is, like, always my healing place. And so in between book tours, in between writing, like, I hike. And I'm, like, immensely grateful and also, like, recognize the serendipity of having just sort of stumbled across this at 23 and been like, that sounds crazy. I'm gonna do that. And now it's such a core part of my life, and also it's what I always come back to. Like, you can always go to the trail. There's always a trail nearby.

It's a really good place to be alone. It's also a really good place to meet people who don't sap your energy the same way quote, unquote, normal people do. Like when I go on trail, I know I'm gonna meet other, like, dirt bags who are just out there trying to, like, connect with nature and be alone or be out away from the city, and, like, not shower for 5 days at a time. And I'm like, these are my people. You

know? I I very much hear that. I was walking in a place near near me. I've got my headphones in. The other human has their headphones in, so I'm just walking, and they're like, hi. The auto automatic sign of don't talk to me. I got headphones on. I'm obviously, like, leaving a voice message for someone. What why are you people.

So as someone who likes trials and going outdoors, random question for you because, you know, you mentioned after speaking, you might like to go under the duvet and hang out. If you leave the house to go to your which is in your driveway, does that count as leaving the house?

I don't have a house. So

Van to another van?

If I go from one van to another van. I do think the nice thing about living in a van is that you're kind of technically always outside. So I suppose if I believe that, then I must also believe that going to your car is outside. But the other nice thing, like, in I'm I'm on my 3rd van because I've been living, in Vans for 6 years now. So I'm but right now, I'm living in, like a pretty small minivan and there's actually just like not really anywhere to hang out in there. So I'm either like in bed or I'm not in the van. And so it sort of forces me outside all the time, which is sometimes uncomfortable because I'm like, it's raining and cold, and I don't wanna lay in bed all day, but that is my only option today. But I do think that that when I bought my first van, I named my first van Celeste because I wanted to be closer to the celestial bodies by being outside all the time.

And I do think that was I I don't think I could have put words to it at that time. But now knowing what I know about, like, how I deal with stress and things, I'm like, oh, I see what I was doing there. You know?

I have questions about the van, but, because you mentioned now it's a mini. It's a smaller van. Was that intentional?

It was intentional because I didn't have enough money for a big van.

Yeah. And what is the one item that you have that, either brings you peace or solace or, grounds you?

I have the quilt that my mother made for me when I was getting my first big girl bed. When I, like, graduated out of a crib, she made a quilt, and it has, like, the letters of the alphabet stitched on it. And it is in absolute tatters. Like, they're all the pieces are just, like, falling apart. But it was on my bed all through my childhood, and then it went in a box for some years. And then when I moved out of my last house and I was like, I can't just have things in boxes, it went back on my bed. And it's, like, a really lovely thing to have all the time around.

Thank you for sharing that. That's that's lovely. Alright. So, it has been great talking to you, and I have so many more questions, but I have to I have to rein it in. Last question for you. It's a surprise question. It's in your opinion, in your esteemed opinion, is and I've asked this peep this question to people who are vegan, vegetarian, whatever, but in generals generally speaking, is a hot dog a sandwich?

Oh my god. Can I can we go, like, a little off the rails here? Yes. Have you ever heard of the game sandwich punch?

No.

Okay. An ex of mine from many years ago and his coworkers used to play a game called sandwich punch. And it was if you leave a sandwich unattended, without putting something over it, they are gonna punch and mutilate your sandwich. And I don't know why so many people are weaving sandwiches unattended, but the rule stated that anything that was two layers of the same thing with something in between was a sandwich. So it could be a sandwich. It could be a hot dog. It could be, like an Oreo cookie, sandwich cookie. Anything that could constitute a sandwich, and then they had to put something over it like a napkin or something to say, like, don't punch my sandwich.

But I would say by the rules of sandwich punch, a hot dog is a sandwich. And I feel like those those are rules I abide.

Alright. That that is an answer we have never had. Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. So can you tell I'm gonna go Google that. Can you tell the listeners? I just imagine something like punching an Oreo cookie, and I'm like, why would you do that?

That was also the thing that I was like, that seems like it would hurt to do.

Well, I messed up a perfectly good cookie. Like, just just eat it instead. But why do you have to, like not not saying you should eat other people's food. I'm just I punching it all. Anyway, so can you please tell the listeners where they can find out more about you and the work that you do, please?

Yes. You can find me on Instagram or TikTok. My handle is rugged outdoors woman. My website is rugged outdoors woman.com. And that is where you can purchase books and also some sweet, like, women in the outdoors, merch stickers, and such. Yeah. And Instagram is definitely is the best place to if you want to speak to me. Send me a DM.

I'm super accessible there.

Alright. Thank you so very much. I really appreciate it. This is Janice from the Career Introvert, helping you build your brand and get hired. This is the, Career conversation particular episode. Have a great rest of your week.