Don’t mind us…we’re just breaking new ground by starting a podcast! In our first rodeo, we scratch our heads about some recent marketing decisions. Like, why did Johnson & Johnson drop the cursive from its logo and add a thing called Kenvue? Also, a short rant about Shrinkflation, Skimpflation, and BSflation (or, what granola, beer and summer cocktails have in common). Finally, we’re shooting for the moon with a “Dear Hopelessly Unattainable Guest.” Check us out!

Key topics & chapter markers 

(00:00) What are we doing here????

(02:13) Snap Decision – Brian: Johnson & Johnson brand updates

(08:35) Snap Decision – John: Skimpflation

(17:20) Dear Hopelessly Unattainable Guest: Tim Cook

(20:56) Next episode spoiler alert – the biological father of Ted Lasso

Connect with Brian and John on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianmarks13/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-l-young/

Welcome to Snap Decisions.

2

I'm Brian Marks.

3

John: And I'm John Young.

4

Brian: Thanks for joining us on

this new adventure, our inaugural

5

John: First one.

6

Here we go.

7

Out of the gate strong.

8

Brian: Let's do it.

9

All right.

10

So, what are, what are we doing here?

11

Uh, is what, many of you might be asking.

12

John: for both of you.

13

Brian: You know, myself, I'm, I'm

personally fascinated by, people's

14

individual journeys and, you know, how

they got here, what choices and pivots did

15

they control and make on their own, which

ones kind of were a forestand for them.

16

What are those snap decisions

and timely decisions that people

17

had to make along the way?

18

And, and so, uh, John, I think that,

you know, I'm looking forward to having

19

some great conversations with people.

20

John: Same.

21

And I, I love that you want to,,

talk to those people and get those,

22

get those interesting stories.

23

For me, I've always been fascinated

with the way, , positioning

24

happens, you know, whether it's

a brand or a product or a person.

25

And when you came to me with this

podcast, uh, after we both had

26

the conversation of, does the

world really need another podcast?

27

You know, I, I got excited with the

idea of,, hearing and exposing some of

28

the behind the scenes stories about.

29

Just how things get

positioned in the world.

30

And I think we can line up some really

interesting guests to talk about

31

what they've done and the decisions

they've made in the moment that kind

32

of changed the course of, you know,

how a brand shows up in the world.

33

Or how a person shows up in the world.

34

Or how they've shown up in the world.

35

Brian: Yeah, it's, uh, it should be fun.

36

And, uh, we toyed with the idea

of calling it, uh, what the world

37

needs now is one more podcast,

but, uh, we chose snap decisions,

38

John: Wouldn't fit on the cover art.

39

Brian: so let's get into snap decisions.

40

So, uh, you know, we will be having a

guest and on most episodes, and there's

41

some episodes where, uh, it'll just be

John and I, uh, going back and forth

42

on some different topics and making

our own snap decisions in the moment.

43

Uh, so, so let's get right into it.

44

What do you think?

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John: Do it.

46

Brian: All right.

47

So, one of the interesting things that

I saw, recently, which was creating

48

a little bit of an online stir, for

marketers is a brand update that,

49

Johnson and Johnson is making.

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And so, it's kind of a

two headed monster here.

51

Number one, they've created a house

of brands for their consumer side.

52

Um, and instead of calling their consumer

products, Johnson and Johnson,, they

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launched a new brand called Kenview, um,

which I, I don't know what that means.

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John: Rolls, rolls off the tongue.

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Brian: rolls right out of the tongue.

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And, uh, and then the, the second thing

that they did is they updated their Their

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logo, they remove the cursive, one of the

things that they were saying was that,

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uh, the cursive, uh, doesn't resonate

with the younger audiences any longer, um,

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which, you know, I, I would say like, hey,

uh, Superbowl, let's, uh, let's remove

60

the Roman numerals because kids don't

know, don't know Roman numerals anymore.

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Uh, so.

62

Yeah,

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John: might do that.

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Brian: yeah, exactly.

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John: I mean, they're talking about

moving it to London someday in the

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future, which would be a terrible,

terrible idea, but go ahead.

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Brian: well, well, let's talk about that

for a second because they would bring the

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Super Bowl up on a Sunday, three hours.

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So instead of starting at six,

they would start at three.

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John: Yeah.

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Brian: You're not, you're

not on board with that.

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John: No,

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Brian: What about the Saturday Super Bowl?

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You know, which a lot of

people are clamoring for.

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Would you be on board with that?

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John: I could get my head

around a Saturday Super Bowl.

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Sure.

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Brian: Okay.

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All right.

80

Back to Johnson and Johnson.

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John: Johnson and Johnson

in there and there.

82

No one can read our cursive logo anymore.

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Brian: yeah, and so one of the

things that they're trying to do

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is they're trying to go all in on

the, um, the healthcare market.

85

Uh, I think on the, on the

B2B side, uh, of things.

86

And, um, you know, I, I think that

really just giving up their brand equity

87

on the consumer side is, uh, it really

makes me scratch my head a little bit.

88

I mean, a lot of us resonate with, um,

their consumer products, like, Uh, the

89

Johnson and Johnson baby shampoo, which,

you know, we all, um, bathed our kids

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in growing up and there's a connection

there and, um, there's kind of giving

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that away and throwing in this shadow.

92

Can view brand, I think is a

little, um, a little bit of a

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head scratcher for me and and then

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John: I, I haven't read a lot about

this, but they're gonna do, uh, Ken

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View still has Johnson Johnson on

it with the idea that they'll phase

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out the Johnson and Johnson brand.

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Correct.

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Brian: that's correct.

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Yeah.

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As can view builds equity with

audiences, we'll wait 150 years for that.

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John: Yeah,

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. Brian: So it's really interesting to

see a brand, uh, take some, some left

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turns like this, uh, I'm all for,

for brands branching out and extending

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their, their reach a little bit.

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My question for you, John, to put you

on the spot, do you think that brand

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marketers get caught up talking to

themselves, when they walk away from the

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equity that's been built up over decades

and decades and centuries in some cases?

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John: Uh, yes, that happens often,

but let me put it back to you.

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In this particular Johnson

Johnson case, what do you think?

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Good idea?

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Bad idea?

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Brian: It's a big risk and, you know,

to trust that people will be able to,

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to recognize your brand more when you

change it after everybody knows what

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you are is, uh, That's where I'm really

scratching my head because in today's

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crowded space and environment, uh, you

really, you really need to think hard

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about, um, taking that for granted.

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John: Yeah.

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Um, and you touched on something

earlier, I think it was...

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That's critical.

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Like 150 years of brand equity,

that's a long time to build something.

121

And then to pivot, to have that

be the thing that's facing, if

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I have this correct, that's the

thing they're going to have facing

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the business to business audience.

124

And they're going to create a whole new

brand called Kenview just for consumers.

125

Yes, I think they, we

sometimes brand marketers talk

126

themselves into doing things.

127

differently for the sake

of doing it differently.

128

Um, I can't imagine why

they didn't flip this.

129

So there are, what, 320 million

Americans who you might want to expose

130

to, you know, their brands, whether

it's baby powder or baby shampoo

131

or whatever else they sell, right?

132

Easier to get those consumers, 330 million

of them, to understand a new brand.

133

Called Ken View, or I don't know what

the size of the medical professional B

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two B market is that they're going after?

135

I have no idea, but I'm gonna guess

it's less than 320 million that are just

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gonna keep going with Johnson Johnson.

137

So I, I, I don't understand

why they did it that way.

138

Why didn't they keep Johnson Johnson for

the consumer side and create a brand

139

for Ken View to a much smaller audience?

140

'cause the sheer investment it takes.

141

is astronomical.

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: That's what I don't understand here.

144

Brian: Yeah, I mean, maybe they,

they thought that, um, they got

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a little bit of equity out of the

Johnson and Johnson name, um, on the

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healthcare side with the COVID stuff.

147

Um, and wanted to kind of run with it.

148

Um, you know, I saw some threads on

social media, uh, where people are

149

commenting on the logo change and

some people were saying, uh, some

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people were saying the, uh, only

marketers care about logo changes.

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Uh, but

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I,

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John: some truth to that man.

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You can overwork a logo real easy.

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Brian: yeah, well, I

mean, it was kind of like.

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You know, nobody cares that they've

changed, but, you know, being

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recognized is a, that's a huge

thing, and, um, I, I don't know why

158

you'd want to play with that, so.

159

John: I did see a post from, I don't

remember his name, but a fairly

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prominent, um, graphic designer

from actually, you know, someone

161

who's expert in brand identity, uh,

referred to this as the ongoing trend

162

towards shitification of brand design,

which I think is a technical term.

163

Brian: That's, it's in a book somewhere.

164

Yeah.

165

All right.

166

Well, well, John, what do you got for me?

167

John: Alright, so I would like to talk

about, , something called skimpflation.

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Are you familiar with the

term skimpflation, Brian?

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Brian: I have heard of it.

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Yes.

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Tell me more.

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John: Well, um, I've always thought

of it as when companies reduce the,

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the, quantity, uh, or quality of a

product, um, and, and, you know, it, in

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the end, the consumer gets less for the

same amount or, um, pays more for less.

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Uh, apparently there is a distinction,

uh, between skimflation, uh, which is

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reducing the quality of the product.

177

And there's shrinkflation, which is

reducing the quantity of a product.

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I kind of blend it together.

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I always thought it was kind of

the same thing, but whatever.

180

That's not what I want to share.

181

What I want to share is, um,

a few months ago, uh, I have a

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favorite brand of granola, right?

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I love this stuff.

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My son loves it.

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Uh, I always get it.

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I won't name the brand.

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Um, and granola in general

is already kind of pricey.

188

Um, so now the one I loved was, it

wasn't like a designer artisanal granola.

189

It was kind of more middle of

the road, I'll call it, I'll

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call it mass organic, okay?

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Brian: Yeah.

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John: Uh, and a few months

ago, they changed the packaging

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and the quantity went from, I

think I wrote this down to 13.

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2 ounces to 11 ounces.

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Uh, yeah, yeah.

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So they changed the, they

changed the size of the package.

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They changed the package from a

cardboard box, the traditional cereal

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box to now, I guess all the granola

is in pouches now, plastic pouches.

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So, um, and the price at

the same time went up.

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This is anecdotal, but I've

been seeing probably 50 cents

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to a buck more for a bag.

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By the way, it's an organic brand, but

they've clearly introduced more pa, more

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plastic into the mixer 'cause it's a

thicker, you know, pack plastic package.

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So, um, you know, it kind of pissed me off

and, obviously there've been some drivers,

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some real drivers of this stuff, right?

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You've got there, you know, in

the Covid era there's supply

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chain issues, logistics issues.

208

Um, we all experienced that, uh, and I

think we kind of got used to all right,

209

and stuff might not be as good as it used

to be or whatever, I recently had to,

210

uh, get an air conditioner, repaired.

211

And the guy said it was a COVID part

that went, like a tiny little, you

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know, 3 transistor or something.

213

And he referred to it as a

COVID part, as if that was a

214

thing, and I think it might be.

215

Um, alright, so there's that, and

then there's inflation, right?

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We've all been hearing about inflation.

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I believe that a lot of these consumer

packaged goods companies are using both

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of those things and you have three years

of experience with those things to give

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us less product or fit your product.

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I'll call that BSflation.

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And I'd love to have an

expert to verify this.

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I'd love to do a whole

podcast on this topic.

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But my take is it's rampant and

happening with pretty much every

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single everyday consumer packaged

good product line out there.

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So, Brian, is this grumpy old

man syndrome that I've got or are

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CPG companies taking advantage of

us on a kind of wide scale now?

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Brian: Well, let's be honest.

228

Uh, you, you are a

grumpy old man, but, um,

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John: Guilty as

230

Brian: however, however, in this case,

I think you're 100 percent right.

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I mean, um, I think people are

definitely taking advantage of.

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The fact that they can get away with

that right now, uh, in the Covid era.

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John: Yeah,

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Brian: It's, it's happening more and more.

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And, I, I think that when you find brands

that, that, that stay true to who they

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are and, and don't take advantage of

their customers, I mean, I think those

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people will be rewarded more and more.

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But I, I, I think everywhere you're

looking right now that that kind

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of thing is happening and, um, uh,

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John: any, any examples that

you've seen like anything in

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your, your daily life that you're

like, Oh, what the hell is that?

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Brian: You know, the only relatable

thing that pops in my mind at first is,

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um, and, you know, I don't know that

this hasn't made the product worse,

244

but, uh, in the alcohol industry,

they're selling four packs of these,

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um, cocktail drinks, you know, and

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John: Four packs of beer that now are more

expensive than the six pack used to be.

247

Also.

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Brian: yeah, and so, like, that's

just, I feel like they're trying to

249

get every cent out of this and, um,

and yes, I need more than one four

250

pack, and, uh, it's driving me nuts,

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John: I saw a four pack.

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I saw a four pack of really good beer.

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It's a really good beer

from a local brewery.

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12 ounce cans, four pack for 18 bucks.

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And I'm like, I can go to a bar

and spend that much on a beer.

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What's going on?

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Brian: Well, that's I've

been doing that equation too.

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And so it's really interesting when you're

starting to pay as much as the liquor

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store as you could to go down the street.

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Um, and, um, yeah, so I think that they

are finding ways to take advantage.

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Um, and, you know, with the summer drinks,

the summer cocktail drinks, um, they

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just keep getting pricier and pricier.

263

And I feel like the going rate on some of

these are just getting higher and higher.

264

So I don't know where that

ends, but I'm seeing it there.

265

The other the

266

other

267

John: I think, and I think it's not

just inflation, and I think it's

268

not just kind of like COVID stuff, I

think it's now, it's opportunistic.

269

Brian: Yeah, and so there's a,

there's like, I think people feel

270

like there's a license to be able

to go and do it right now, and, uh,

271

until people like us call them on it.

272

John: And, well, so, right, so how do

we, how do we prove this, how do we call

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them on it, and what are we gonna do?

274

Brian: Well, it's like the cost

of a, sporting event ticket.

275

I mean, the only way, or the, the

cost of a drink at a, at a stadium,

276

I mean, the only way this stops is

if you stop buying the thing, and

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consumers have shown that they will not.

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John: yeah, yeah,

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Brian: you go into a

different granola brand.

280

John: Uh, oh, instantly.

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Brian: You did.

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John: Oh, a hundred percent.

283

So I, I

284

Brian: More power to you.

285

John: Like I'll go back once in a

while if, if they do have a little

286

bit of a discount, which by the way,

I think the sales on that brand are

287

happening less and less often too.

288

When I see it, I'll do it.

289

I still like it, but they, they lost me as

the, you know, the weekly shopper, right?

290

I would get, I'll get a couple of

boxes of stuff a week, probably.

291

And that's not happening anymore.

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Brian: The thing that gets me about

this one is the paying more for less,

293

John: cereal is rampant for this.

294

Like if you look at, and, and I love my,

my local grocery store has an app that

295

lets you, you know, if you look for a

specific, I'm gonna say cereal, right?

296

Pick a brand, it'll give

you like 15 different sizes.

297

And unlike in the store where it's

kind of harder, it's very clear

298

to see the price per ounce, same

cereal, different package sizes, the

299

price per ounce is all over the map.

300

So they're clearly like doing some family

size, super size, fun size, idiot size,

301

whatever, changing the packaging on a

regular basis to kind of keep us on

302

our heels and occasionally buying the

one that's way higher on a unit price.

303

Good Lord.

304

All right.

305

I'm done now.

306

Rant, rant over.

307

Brian: Well, the streaming services

are doing this to, you know, uh,

308

Netflix, I swear every, every quarter

that I keep raising their price

309

and, you know, they're not making

as much content as they used to.

310

And so, I know that they've built

such an audience now that that people

311

feel like they can't get rid of it.

312

But, um, they're, they're close

to pricing themselves out.

313

And, um, so,

314

John: Remember when the argument for the

streamers was, oh man, this cable company

315

keeps, they keep raising your rates.

316

Brian: yeah,

317

John: uh, yeah, we're, we're, we're

living it now in the streamers for sure.

318

Brian: yeah.

319

And so.

320

It'll be interesting to see where,

where that goes because, um, you know,

321

they, they just keep jacking it up and

now they're looking, you know, they

322

have lower tiers now with ads and, uh,

you know, they're kind of taking some

323

of the value out that they brought

in and so we'll see what happens, but

324

it's happening everywhere, which is,

um, uh, it's a little disappointing.

325

John: All right.

326

Well, I would like to find an expert

who could help us figure out how to, how

327

to measure it, how to evaluate it, how

to stay away from it, and maybe how to,

328

you know, start a movement to combat it.

329

Brian: Yeah, let's keep talking about it.

330

John: let's make that happen.

331

Brian: All right, well, um, are, uh, we

want to introduce a new segment called.

332

John: Everything's a new

segment for us right now.

333

This is our first episode.

334

Brian: it's all a new segment.

335

Uh, and, and so in the hopes of bringing

on great guests as we move forward,

336

we are, uh, calling this segment,

Dear Hopelessly Unattainable Guest.

337

And, uh, this

338

John: clear, to be clear, we do

have some good guests lined up.

339

Brian: Yes.

340

Yes.

341

These are moonshots, though.

342

You know, this, uh, this could

be, uh, a letter to Oprah,

343

John: Oh god, you took mine!

344

Brian: Oh, yeah

345

John: No, I'm kidding.

346

Well, maybe not.

347

But go ahead, who are you after?

348

Brian: So, um my my first uh Dear

hopelessly unattainable guest

349

is Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple.

350

You might've heard of

him, you know, he is,

351

John: yeah, yeah, that name rings a bell.

352

Brian: I feel like, I feel like

he would fit in great on, on

353

an episode of snap decisions

354

John: He's made, he's made a lot of

snap decisions since taking over.

355

Brian: a little bit.

356

John: Yeah.

357

Brian: Yeah.

358

So why not bring him

in for a fireside chat?

359

John: Dear Tim Cook.

360

All right.

361

Brian: Cook.

362

All

363

John: it, Brian.

364

What's your, what's

your, what's your pitch?

365

Brian: So, uh, so let's get into that.

366

So, uh, this is my letter to Tim Cook

to, to join us on a future episode.

367

Dear Tim Cook, congratulations on the

launch and success of the iPhone 15.

368

As usual, Apple finds a way to move

the mobile industry forward with

369

innovative technology, including the

new titanium frame, the removal of

370

the mute button and USB C charging.

371

Kudos.

372

You are the type of leader

that demonstrates how to

373

navigate change user behaviors.

374

And how to take the right risks as

such my podcast partner, John Young

375

and myself cordially invite you

to our new series, snap decisions.

376

A melting pot of marketing

conversation that talks about the

377

choices that you have made that have

created your path to get to today.

378

We'd be delighted to

have you as our guest.

379

You can expect to reach dozens

and further help you get the word

380

out about your amazing products.

381

It would be an honor to hear about

your background at IBM and Compaq.

382

And also hear about the great Steve

Jobs and how he got you to Apple.

383

How have you made your own mark and

gotten out of your comfort zone to

384

lead the biggest company in the world?

385

What are your biggest

marketing challenges?

386

How does a brand like Apple stay

ahead of consumers and continue

387

to find ways to provide tools

and technology they so desire?

388

What is your favorite color?

389

All this and more.

390

We're fascinated by your

story and want to talk.

391

Please join us, Tim.

392

You won't regret it.

393

Sincerely, the Snap Decisions team.

394

What do you think?

395

You think he's gonna come on?

396

John: Here, Brian Marks.

397

Thank you so much for reaching

out to speak to our CEO, Tim Cook.

398

Brian: Can't reply.

399

John: Dot, dot, dot.

400

Uh, no, I love it.

401

Uh, I, I think, you know, long, I'm not

sure how that's going to fit into a tweet

402

that might capture his attention or get

some, uh, get some, get some pickup.

403

But hey, uh, I love the long form letter.

404

I'm a big fan of long

form copy when done well.

405

So, um, yeah, let's send that off.

406

Brian: Yeah, I think, uh, I think

Tim would be, just to be able to

407

show that we care about him and, uh,

provide some better context there.

408

And so just, you know, tweeting at him.

409

Um, so we'll see.

410

Maybe, maybe he'll be

on, uh, on in the future.

411

John: Okay, cool.

412

Um, is this a good time for me to,

uh, tee up and, and promote our, our

413

actual first guest at our next podcast?

414

Brian: Sure.

415

Go for

416

John: Cool.

417

Um, I'm not gonna say a whole

lot, but I will just tease that.

418

Um, we are going to be interviewing

the man I consider to be the

419

biological father of Ted Lasso.

420

Brian: it.

421

Hmm.

422

That sounds interesting.

423

John: Yeah, I'm gonna leave it at that.

424

That's a tease.

425

Brian: Okay.

426

John: So, but we've, we've

got that person joining us.

427

Brian: Can't wait to talk to him.

428

John: We have, have to ask

him about some snap decisions.

429

Brian: That will be interesting.

430

All

431

John: All right.

432

Well, that was your mission, right?

433

To have interesting people and

ask them to tell us about their

434

stories and the pivots they've made.

435

So we'll, uh, we'll fire that up

with Ted Lasso's biological father.

436

Brian: Believe,

437

John: Believe.

438

Brian: believe it.

439

All right.

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Well, uh, thanks for joining us on

the first episode of snap decisions,

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and we hope to see you next time.

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John: Yeah.

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Thank you.

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And Brian, thank you for getting us going.

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You're the man.

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Brian: Thanks for joining me.

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John: Bye.

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Brian: Bye.