Skilled trades careers offer another path. Tony Bertolino explains plumbing apprenticeships, on-the-job training, and why apprenticeships aren’t “less than” college.

Host Andrew Brown sits down with fourth-generation plumber, contractor, apprenticeship instructor, and business owner Tony Bertolino to break down how trades careers actually develop, from plumbing apprenticeship programs and on-the-job training to the shift from technician to owner.

Recorded during live apprenticeship competitions, Tony shares what sets top apprentices apart: mindset, self-discipline, and pride in doing the work well. The conversation explores why classroom learning has limits, how hands-on repetition builds real mastery, and why trades education works best when theory and field experience reinforce each other.

Tony also addresses common misconceptions about plumbing, explaining its role in public health and why the work is often undervalued precisely because it’s done so well. For those considering entrepreneurship, he offers a reality check on ownership—covering responsibility, risk, mentorship, and the importance of community.

Whether you’re exploring an apprenticeship, alternative education, or ownership in the trades, this episode offers grounded perspective from someone who’s lived every stage.

IN THIS EPISODE

(00:01) – Skilled Trades Careers Today: Pride in the work and why demand keeps rising

(05:12) – Plumbing Apprenticeship Programs: What textbooks teach—and what they can’t

(11:40) – On-the-Job Training in the Trades: Why hands-on repetition builds mastery

(18:55) – Trades Entrepreneurship: Why ownership isn’t “overnight success”

(26:30) – Mentorship, PHCC, and community: Why business owners shouldn’t operate alone

(34:10) – Alternative Education Pathways: Why apprenticeships aren’t better or worse than college—just different

Key Takeaways

1. Skilled trades careers are built through pride, responsibility, and consistent effort—not shortcuts.
2. Plumbing apprenticeship programs work best when classroom theory is paired with real on-the-job training.
3. Hands-on repetition and tool confidence are difficult to teach without field experience.
4. Plumbing protects public health through safe water and sanitation, even though the work is often invisible.
5. Trades entrepreneurship brings freedom, but also nonstop responsibility and financial complexity.
6. Mentorship and professional community reduce isolation and help owners make better decisions under pressure.
7. Failure is part of learning in the trades, and progress depends on how people respond to mistakes.

About the Guest

Tony Bertolino is a fourth-generation plumber, contractor, apprenticeship instructor, and co-owner of Bertolino Plumbing and Heating. He also serves as a national VP within the Plumbing-Heating-Cooling Contractors Association (PHCC), where he supports workforce development, mentorship, and modern apprenticeship education.

Tony focuses on strengthening the trades through real-world training, honest conversations about ownership, and long-term investment in people.

Keywords

Skilled Trades Careers, Plumbing Apprenticeship Programs, On-the-Job Training Trades, Trades Entrepreneurship, Alternative Education Pathways, PHCC, Plumbing-Heating-Cooling Contractors Association, Plumbing Contractor, Apprenticeship Instructor, Workforce Development, Mentorship, Trades Industry, Trades Careers, Tradespeople, Contractors, Plumbing, HVAC, Electricians, Construction, Craftsmanship, Problem-Solving, Andrew Brown, Tony Bertolino, Toolfetch

RESOURCE LINKS

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-bertolino-795456367/

Website: https://bertolinoinc.com/

Plumbing-Heating-Cooling Contractors Association: https://www.phccweb.org/

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It was the first time that I really felt someone judge me

based on what I was doing.

Plumbing is responsible for doubling the lives of Europeans and Americans.

Tony Bertolino, fourth generation plumber, contractor, apprenticeship instructor and

co-owner Bertolino Plumbing and Heating.

There's only so much you can learn in a textbook apprenticeship

as alternative education.

Like it's, it's not.

Better than college.

It's not worse than college.

It's just another path.

The hardest to teach is the how do you use tools?

What are some of the myths and mindsets, the things that you need

to do in order to get those skills.

You can become an entrepreneur overnight if you want.

However, you, you can't become an.

Hi, I'm Andrew Brown.

You're listening to the Lost Art of the Skilled Trades Podcast, a show that

shines the spotlight on careers in the skilled trades that are high paying,

honorable, rewarding, and fulfilling.

The trades are the backbone of the economy that keep us running, and without

them, our world would cease to exist.

All right.

Welcome back to The Lost Art of the Skilled Trade.

Super excited to have Tony Bertolino, national VP of PHCC.

Yeah, welcome.

Thanks for having me here.

Appreciate that.

The action here is just, just unbelievable.

Super exciting.

The apprentices that are working over there at that competition, do you have a

chance to take a look at what's going on?

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Actually this is, um, I teach in Virginia Beach and three of

those apprentices are my students.

No way.

Yep.

So it's the first time we ever swept the regional in our area competition.

So yeah, they're three of them.

What do you feel, you know, for the people who are, who are listening, what

are the qualities of those individuals have that kind of set them apart?

In that type of work?

What, what, what is it?

Is it mindset?

Is it just the way they work?

Like what is it being proud of what you do?

You know, I mean, or, or caring about it.

Uh, the guys that I have in there, the ones that that made it

there, um, they want to do this.

Uh, it's not a secondary option.

They're not doing it just because they need to pay rent.

They want to be plumber.

And, uh, you know, I, the, the quality they have is that they're

gonna do the best that they can do and when whatever they're doing, and

that's, and that's why they're there.

Are they in competition with themselves?

Like all three of them with like, I wanna win.

I was never in that competition ever.

'cause we didn't have it where I grew up.

But, uh, I bet every person that's in there is in competition with themselves.

Will, the first thing they tell you are the things that they did

wrong in the state competition that, that they punish themselves for,

and then they still made it here.

So they're trying not to do that wrong thing again.

So, yeah, I'm, I'm without a doubt they're stressing out about the

things that they, they can do wrong and trying to avoid that.

What is the prep work or to get here.

Um, so in our state.

We have a state competition, so they do the state level competition and

should they come in first or second, they have an opportunity to be in, um,

nationals National, um, allowed us to send our third place person as well.

And so that's why I have three, you know, you, you want to have

that OJT, the on-the-job training.

I mean, you, you go to your apprenticeship school, you learn theory, uh, but you need

to really learn the hands-on and how to do it because this is a practical test

of the skills in the plumbing trades.

So you really need that hands-on experience to, you know, uh, succeed here.

Yeah.

There's only so much you can learn in a textbook, and I was having this

conversation with multiple people like.

Someone who's got 25, 30 years in learning from that person versus

you just learning in a textbook.

It's two different things.

Like you have to know, you have to see it in the field, obviously.

And you know, that experience that they have just might not be maybe

in the, even in the textbook.

It is, I do believe that there's a, you know, you have to

identify how people learn, right?

I mean, all you have to do is look at NASA and look at the, you know,

the shuttles out there, you know, the Apollo 13 mission, right?

None.

None of those people on the ground were in that shuttle out there.

They weren't hands-on.

They was all theory what they were doing and they, and they solved a

problem in a combined space without being in the actual situation.

So, I mean, you can learn from a textbook if you're that person.

Yes.

However, most of us are hands-on learners.

Yes.

And, and you really need to know and feel.

Stuff.

But you know, with our textbooks in our school, they're not,

they're not teaching you how to set toilets or do that kind of stuff.

It, it is the theory of plumbing, the physics behind it, why we do it, uh, the

importance of it and that kind of stuff, which is in order to be well-rounded, you

do, you should, in my opinion, know that Well, how did you fall into plumbing?

What was your, what was your back like, family members?

Like where, where, where, where did it come from?

I'm a fourth generation plumber.

Fourth generation.

Yep.

Okay.

So my dad owned a plumbing company.

Uh, so it was, you know, uh, 16 and it was summertime, and I'm going to work with

my dad, which I, you know, had a lucky.

You work with your dad?

He was taking me to lunch.

I mean, I was, I was living a good.

Did you have a choice in the matter or he is like, you're

coming to me, coming with me.

My parents gave me a choice, but it was, you know, you're, you're gonna go get

a job, like you're going to do work, you're going to be doing these things.

I mean, it's, it's an important thing to do because you're gonna become an adult.

Like you have to work, you're not, we're not independently wealthy where you're

just gonna sit around and do nothing.

So, working was not a choice where was, but I, you know,

I chose to work with my dad.

And that was great.

And I, you know, maybe I wasn't the best employee because I was with my

dad, and you can, you know, you can push buttons, but I mean, there, there's

working with family that is also tough.

You know, my dad call me anytime he wants, where your regular boss

cannot call you anytime they want.

Yes.

Off hours too.

Yes.

But, uh, you know, it was, it was, it was good.

I, I learned everything.

Every, the person that I am today is because of him and because of them

and the way that they raised me.

And so I, I wouldn't have it either way.

Yeah, you don't know that when you're going through it, but you look back

on those years and you're like, eh, you know, my father was right.

Oh yeah.

It's Hindsight's 2020, right?

Oh, a hundred percent.

A hundred percent.

So are you still in the business today?

I am in the business.

I'm not in his business.

Okay.

So I'm from Virginia, but I grew up in Vermont.

And he's still in Vermont.

And my brother and I, we moved back to Virginia 'cause uh, very cold

young people were leaving the state.

It, it was, it was just tough.

So we went back to Virginia and so we have our company there.

So you started your own business?

Yeah.

My, my brother did.

He, he's actually the, he's younger than me.

He started it when he was 26.

Okay.

And so he began it, uh, I did a bunch of big scale commercial stuff to become more

well-rounded and then we just, we joined together and, and the rest is history.

Yeah.

The family dynamic is always interesting that my father was an industrial

distribution and he sold to iron workers and he was with my uncle for

like 60, like some crazy like 60 years.

That family dynamic.

I was in a business with my brother also in industrial distribution.

It's, it, it has its good points and nots of good points and it's blood,

but it's also, you know, how to literally push each other's buttons.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And my, my brother and I, we have that actually growing up.

I mean, we, we never really fought, we're always good, but we, I probably push

his buttons more than he pushes mine.

But, um, we can have those arguments and stuff, but, uh.

We recognize that we're brothers, we're always going to be, and our family

dynamic is more important than that.

So sometimes we get a little frustrated with each other, but we're

pretty quick to let it go, and we operate fairly smoothly with that.

So do you both stay in your own lanes?

Yeah.

You do?

Yep.

Yeah.

My brother and I, he's, we're lucky because we didn't plan it that way.

But the way that my brother looks at business and the way that I do,

we have, we have very specific.

You know, uh, roles within the company that I would prefer not to do what

he is doing at all, because I'm weak at that and he does not want to do

what I do because that is not, and so we're lucky it was not in engineered,

I mean, we did not come up with that.

It just happened to be that is who we were.

Right?

You find your, your role, whether you're even like the one is like

the visionary, the person who knows where the company's going.

The other person maybe is more.

In ops, like the day-to-day stuff.

Yeah.

You know, and that, and that's me.

So that, that's you.

Yeah.

My brother, he, he comes with ideas and I'm the systems guy.

Yeah.

I, I put, I make them work.

I make 'em happen, and then he throws another idea out and

we just, we keep on rolling.

Yes.

Yeah.

Um, but you need that because you work together well.

And you mesh together because if you were both like operators or both

visionaries, it might not have worked.

Oh, yeah.

You know, so it's a good balance.

Would we would've more arguments?

Yeah.

When you're bringing in new people into your organization, for people

who listening, because there's always people obviously looking for

positions and they want to interview and they just don't know how, like

what do you look for quality wise, bringing somebody on in your company?

It's funny, Rob and I were actually talking about this.

One of the things that we've learned that we started identifying as like

a, a key component to being able to be in the trades is, the one thing

that I find the hardest to teach is the how, how do you use tools?

And some people, whether they're doing plumbing, whatever, I

mean, they, they can put together an office desk in their house.

Really?

I mean, the way that they hold a screwdriver, the way that they grab

a drill, the way that they just.

Know how to use whatever tool.

They're, they're not awkward.

They're not like trying to write with their left hand.

And, and you can see that.

So like when you give a helper a hammer or a screwdriver and it looks

like they're using their left hand to write a pen, you're like, oh man.

Like, how do you, how do you explain that?

How do you teach that away?

It just, some people have you, it a natural Yeah, I, a natural thing.

I think it's like you, you find that there are people that

use their hands really well.

In, in operation.

And it's, I mean, and that is what we use.

I mean, we have to use tools.

Tools are an extension of ourselves and they are what make

us able to do what we can do.

And so you, if you see a kid that can do that, and a willingness

to be, you know, to show up on time and to actually be here.

I mean, you're at that point it's, it's like, well, let's,

let's talk, let's, let's get you moving in the right direction.

Yeah.

'cause that's maybe the right fit, but they also need the soft skills.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

But those are trainable.

Yes.

You know, you can, you can take somebody and, and you can, you

can get that trained out of them.

I look at it as you have the will, you can get the skill.

Yeah.

You don't have the will.

No.

Yeah.

That's, that, that, that's a whole nother Yeah.

But it, that's whole nother issue.

It's hard to, to identify that on day one.

You know what I mean?

Sure.

So it's like, it's, it's important to give people a chance and let,

and not be so upset if they're fail.

You know, if you, you hiring a bunch of apprentices and, or you know,

helpers and for a month and then, you know, several of 'em drop out.

I mean, at least you're try, you're trying to get them, I mean, some

of 'em aren't going to make it.

I've had a job where I wasn't gonna make it and it was like,

Hey, I can't do, I can't do this.

So, I mean, everybody has that stuff, so you give 'em a chance, but it's

just that immediate identifier to, to really see and honesty that matters.

You know, when they tell you the things that you're, you know, the

things that they wouldn't like, you know, they wouldn't like somebody

to know, but they're gonna tell you.

It's kind of like the, uh, the did you graduate high school question, right?

There isn't a company in the world probably that is calling up high

schools to check your background to see if you graduated high school.

That question is a qualifier to be like.

Are you gonna tell the truth?

Because if they answer no, there is no way that you would've ever known that.

And it's an honesty answer.

And I mean, you'll never know the truth.

So why is it there?

Well, companies struggle, and I, I, I see this, it doesn't matter.

I'm at a welding show or a plumbing show or something.

Uh, electrical, the number one thing that business owners say, I cannot

find X, Y, Z to, to, you know, replace somebody who's leaving the industry.

Right.

You know, the shortages that we have, how do you reach the younger

generation, like Gen Z, ages 13 to 28?

Like what's the, what's the secret sauce?

I guess I, uh, if I knew we, we would have a lot less problems.

Yeah.

Um, you know, we, we have been toying around with that idea.

You know, we go into schools, we talk to people.

I, I think fundamentally the mindset needs to change on guidance.

Counselor don't.

I don't think, me personally can walk into a school and they're gonna

look at and be like, wow, you know, that guy Bertolino, he showed up.

I guess I should try to do plumbing.

It's, I'm probably not changing anybody's mind.

You know, realistically, maybe, maybe they understand plumbing a little bit

better or they don't have like a, you know, they don't, they don't think

it's just digging ditches or Yeah.

You know, whatever.

But perception, like they still have already been raised in a, in

a situation where they, there's a choice being made for them about

whether they're gonna go to college.

This school system that they're in, I'm, I'm sure if, if they're like most kids

is not, if they're not in a tech school.

In a regular high school, they're being prepped for SAT work.

They're being prepped for college futures.

That's, that's the problem that, that there's not a, a look at

apprenticeship as alternative education.

Like it's, it's not better than college.

It's not worse than college.

It's just another path.

And until people start realizing.

That the, when there's almost none of us and we're like, Hey, it's gonna cost this

much for us to even show up at your door.

And you're like, well, I'm, I'm gonna get paid.

Well, I've got a line.

You know, if you wanna get in line, this is what it's gonna cost.

It's the way supply and demand works and.

Once people start realizing that maybe they'll, they'll start putting

kids an emphasis back on, I mean, we really lost it, uh, what, 80 years ago?

60 years ago.

Yeah.

And the focus was, you know, more so on going to, to college, going, going to

college, going and pushing the college.

Right.

What do you say to, you know, the individuals, um, out there that, um, I

think the trades are, are less than right.

Option B. 'cause we know that's, I know that's bs, but there's still that old

adage that it's, you know, you're, you're, you're, I don't know, you're pushing

a wheelbarrow on a dusty job site or.

Plumbers bought, whatever it may be, all the, you know, the crap that, that

people say, I, I, I don't understand.

I mean, today it's, it's, it's a little bit different, right?

You have, uh, a ton of people who are on social media showcasing

exactly what they do day to day.

So even if you wanted to be a plumber, there's a lot of people who are

influencers showcasing their work.

But that old adage is still there.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Um, I'll, I'll start with that, with this story.

When I was in my twenties.

Um, I, uh, was working under a kid's guy, guy sink, and he

brought out his ODU diploma and he told me, had I gone to college, I

wouldn't be working under a sink.

And at the time I, it was the first time that I really felt someone.

Judge me based on what I was doing.

I, I, it had never crossed my mind to think less of someone for them digging

a grave versus being an electrician or a plumber or being a college professor.

I just, I just didn't think about it like that.

And, um, and I, and on, on the drive away from that job, I was like, wow,

like that person doesn't even know me.

They think that I'm less than them because I didn't go do this one thing.

Like they, they're, I've been judged basically.

Um, and I decided to make it a point that, uh, I would.

Educate or encourage people to learn more about what it is.

And, and what I would say to somebody that says that, uh, we are less than,

because at this point I've cultivated that answer, is that, uh, plumbing is

responsible for doubling the lives of Europeans and Americans through sanitary

drainage and potable water systems.

And if you're excited at the fact that you're 55 and you still have 20 years or

30 years of life left, my trade is not less important than anything you're doing.

We gave people more time.

We are the foundation of the healthcare system in this country.

Uh, you don't get sick and die from drinking water in America anymore.

Uh, so if you don't like what we do, if you think we're less than,

we're not gonna change your mind.

But we know better.

Well, plumbers save more lives than doctors.

Yeah.

2007, um, I think it was Britain voted that we were the, uh, well,

that sanitary drainage system was the greatest medical breakthrough of the 21st

century because of the doubling lives.

That and they beat vaccinations and antibiotics.

Yeah.

That was on the list.

Amazing.

I like that poster where it's the plumber who, you know, you

see 'em on the, the pedestal.

Yep.

All the people.

I always, uh, I always like that.

Uh, I always, I always think about that where it says like, where

the healthcare of the nation.

It's, it's such a simplified way of putting just how important we are and,

you know, I mean, just, just what we do there is only one trade more important

than plumbing, and that's building because we need shelter to survive.

After that.

It's, I mean, we have to have water.

We have to have, get rid of the sewage.

I mean, it makes us sick and people just don't remember because

it's, we've done such a good job.

Yeah.

People take it for granted.

Yeah.

You know?

Absolutely.

You come over absolutely and you fix X, Y, Z, and it's just, you don't realize

what the men and women in the trades do behind the scenes to keep really

us running, keep the economy running.

Oh, ab, absolutely.

It's like what, like.

We take like a seven minute shower and that's more water than most people in

third world countries use in a day.

Yeah.

I mean, we have no concept of just how great we have it, but it's because

of the trades people that exist.

I mean, because this infrastructure is constantly being worked on.

So, you know, I, I got to a point in my life where it's like, I don't, yeah,

I really don't care if you respect me.

I'm not gonna change your mind.

If you're a person that looks at different professions, um,

with different value and weight.

No one's changing your mind.

You're, you're that person.

So, you know, you can, you can exist in your world where you believe

certain people are less than you.

And that's, and that's fine.

That's not how I'm going to be, and that's not the ideas that I'm going to promote.

That's, I dunno if it's the people I wanna be around anyway.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

Um, I wanna pivot over to, um, journey from technician to entrepreneur

because there are a lot of people in the field that are like, I

just wanna start my own business.

I'm, you know.

I'm gung ho.

What are some of the, some of the myths and what are the, the

mindsets, the things that you need to do in order to get those skills?

Because you can't just show up and just form an LLC and all of a sudden, like

you're rocking and rolling, like you need to know a thing or two about business.

Right?

And so I, I use this with my students, right?

I mean, you can, you can become an entrepreneur overnight if you want.

However, you, you can't become a successful entrepreneur, right?

You can go down and get that business license.

You can apply for the LLC.

You can go bankrupt.

Um, you know, your, your company can never make money in the IRS take away your,

uh, your tax ID number because you're just a company that doesn't make money.

But, um, you know, the, I think the problem is, is a lot

of these guys do side work.

I mean, they're, they're always doing a little extra, a little extra, help

people out and they forget or don't even know how our system works.

I mean.

Some of them get shocked when I tell 'em, like, you know, the taxes that

come outta your checks, only half.

We pay the other half.

Uh, what do you, what do you mean?

Oh, well, when you own a company, you pay all of it.

Like, you know that number, you double it and, and you have to make a good amount

of money to be able to pay yourself.

And it's not, if it was all like side work, then everybody

would be an entrepreneur.

I mean, it's just money's coming in.

You don't not have to pay it out anywhere.

Um.

We need people though.

We need entrepreneurs, we need them to, uh, start filling the gap as companies

start to disappear through retirement or selling or however it works out.

Um, I would say that they, they need to educate themselves on that part

of the business because I get the.

You're, oh, you don't, you don't have to work in the field anymore or what,

you know, it must be a lot easier.

And it's like, well my, I mean, just before I came on this, I'm,

I'm answering questions, you know, in Virginia from Michigan.

'cause my phone is just ringing constantly about problems

that the guys are up against.

Yeah.

It never stops ringing.

Saturday, Sunday, I am still working.

I don't think people realize that, that yes, they go home.

They don't go home with it.

You go home with it.

Yeah.

And, and it's when you're by yourself.

It's even easier.

But then as soon as you have people, I mean, I, I particularly care about

my guys knowing that if I do something wrong and I, and I make it so that

work stops or I screw something up, that it affects their lives.

And I, I'm just not a person that can take that lightly to be, you know,

if I fail, there are other members of my community that then don't

have a job because of my failure.

And it's like, that matters to me a lot.

And so.

There's times my brother and I were like, something will happen.

And we're up all night dealing with it and you know, and he's

like, man, I'm not sleeping.

'cause we're trying to figure out an issue and it, when you're an

employee man, you get to just go home.

Like when, on the weekends when I wasn't working, I wasn't working,

I wasn't thinking about work, I did not care about anything.

I was just having a good time and relaxing.

And now it's, every day I think about work, every day I do something

with it and it's just commonplace.

I don't want it any other way though.

I mean, I, I do like this.

Um, but you really need to know that that is something you'll be dealing with.

And if you don't want to deal with that, there is no shame of being an

employee for, I mean, you can make a great living and have everything

you want by doing that, but just, just remember that to be successful,

you need to be putting in effort.

A lot of effort you do.

And I just think the entrepreneur route is crazy.

I mean, in a good way.

Yeah.

Because I was an entrepreneur and had a business for 24

years in industrial supply.

So like I know the ebbs and flows and the ups and downs and you know, the

questioning yourself and mindset, but also getting around mentors or people who

you know, who are business owners, right?

Or maybe a mastermind of some sort.

What have you done?

Obviously you have your brother, but like outside your own brother, like who

do you get around to get inspiration or like when you're troubleshooting

something in your own business, do you have a mentor or mentors that Yeah.

Yeah, I do.

Um, I have a mentor that's in our local area, owns a, owns a

plumbing company and I mean, he has.

He never, I, I'm a, I teach his guys and oh, I had the, my first

interaction really with him.

Uh, he is a good sized company, well respected, and I am a teacher.

So at the same time, and I'm like, our company was very tiny.

And um, I was teaching class and he came in to introduce himself and we

were talking and he knew that I had just started up and he was like, Hey,

listen, if you ever find yourself where you don't have any work, just call me.

I'll make sure you have some work.

That way you get your bills paid.

I never had to take him up on that, but the relief that he gave me was just, that

was one of the most important things I could have heard at that time, because I

didn't know if the phone stopped ringing, how was I gonna pay my bills, and how was

I going to get the phones to ring more?

And fortunately that never happened, but he gave me a safety net.

And I could never repay him for that.

And so from that point forward, you know, I've, I've worked really hard with

the guys and I've been a part of this organization and he, you know, whenever

I've had real questions, he has never once, uh, treated me like a competitor.

You know, I, my, my office is right down the street from his, and he

is, yeah, he's never had an issue with answering anything from me.

And I trust him just about more than anybody I could ever trust.

He's always been there.

And so knowing that he'll tell me if I'm being stupid, he'll tell

me if something is wrong, right?

Or this, that, and the other thing, or give me a, a way to look at something.

And that's just invaluable.

And if you can get any, at any point in your life, having a mentor for any aspect

of your life is incredibly important.

Well, how does somebody ask for help?

Because if you're, let's say just starting out, you have nothing

to provide to that person.

So you're like, well.

I have nothing to give, give them, they're giving me all this,

like, how do you go about that?

Getting the courage to ask for help.

It's not always easy.

You're, yeah, you're right.

Um, being part of the organization, the PHCC makes it easier because, and

at least from where I am in Virginia.

They have, it's like these guys have all gone through what

you've gone through probably.

'cause they've been doing it for a long time and they're, and they're

part of this organization, or at least the, the older group of guys.

And it's like they, they can look at you and be like, you know,

there's something going on with you.

I mean, we, we just know.

And so it's like you don't, you're gonna ask because

they're going to ask you to ask.

And it's just their experience, they're able to recognize and, and

that is just, that's part of it.

But, so by being in this community, you're around a bunch

of people that make it very easy.

Um, PHCC has done a great job of making it a family, and it's really much easier

to tell mom and dad, Hey, you know, like, stuff's not going so great at work.

Like, what are you guys going through?

And so that community feel like if you're, if you're on the

outside and you're not part of it.

It definitely way, way harder.

I, I got to be part of it.

And so since you're in there, you get to, hey, you know what's going on.

Like we had at the, um, you know, part of last year there was some

significant, um, supply, or not supply issues, but like, you know,

there was weird where people started getting worried about spending money.

And we, we saw these crazy ebbs and flows with the um, uh, the

economy and how people are in.

So I got to call up someone.

Hey, are you seeing Yeah, we're seeing the same thing.

Okay.

It's not me.

Right.

It's not just me because you go into panic mode because like,

wait, we're doing something wrong.

Yeah.

But if the, if other people are feeling that too, then it's not

just, it's just the economy and then they, they would gimme calls, Hey,

what are you, what are you seeing?

This is what I'm seeing.

And it's like we reassure each other or then, you know, then I, the way

that I thank my mentor is when other people call me with problems, I

try to be the best mentor or, or at least give some unbiased, as good

information as it possibly can to them.

To pass it on and, and strengthen the community that has been built.

Uh, I think that's the 'cause.

I mean, really, uh, there's probably nothing that I can share with my mentor

that I'm like, Hey, did you know this?

And, and help push him.

You know, he's, he's, he's done a great job and I mean, and he's learned from

his mentors and so, you know, it's like you repay it in kindness by making

sure that you help somebody else out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's interesting when someone says they're self-made.

They're not self-made, somebody.

Help them in their journey, their, you know, change their trajectory, and

you can always trace it back to just a couple of people that really changed it.

Maybe it was a teacher, maybe it was, you know, a, a neighbor.

It could have been anybody, but somebody has done, you know, has really helped you,

sort of guide you in your, in your path.

You don't wanna just float around.

Like, yeah.

Being, being self-made to me is a, is a sad statement.

I mean, it's really like a, you're alone.

Like you didn't, you didn't have parents, you didn't have, you didn't

any, you didn't, you didn't talk to anybody about anything like, yikes.

You know what I mean?

Not even your significant other, uh, it just, it is a lonely phrase.

Yeah, exactly.

Because you, like you said, you go through the ebbs and flows and you go through

some of the tough times and you need reassurance from others who've been there.

They can help you kind of push through that, those tough times.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

And especially when you get in your own head.

Yeah.

Right.

And it was nobody, it, everybody is their own worst enemy.

I mean, we were just talking about with the apprentices and how they pun.

I mean, as soon as you make a, I mean, I would argue that everybody

should get outta their head a little bit more and it, uh, you know,

so, uh, a mentor is just that.

I mean, they're, they're going to help you get outta your head because

they're gonna give you the answers or not the answers just make you

think about something different.

I mean, it's, it's very, it's the same thing as why you shouldn't self-diagnose,

uh, you know, medical conditions online.

Like you're the only aspect in there.

So you're gonna Google everything and you're gonna start learning

some stuff that's crazy.

You need to talk to somebody else because they are looking

at it differently than you.

Yeah.

The apprentices that are in there that, that mindset, if they mess something,

they know that they mess something up.

Have you guys worked on like keep moving forward?

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

I, in my class, my year four class, I prep them to take their licensing test.

You know, I'm, I'm by no means I'm, I'm only part of the puzzle, right.

They, OJT the learning how to do the job is, is significant.

I'm just trying to make sure that they're ready for testing and

they're ready for the theory part.

My last test is very difficult and it is meant for them to fail, and,

um, and I, I designed it that way.

They still cry about it.

They still bring it up, even though I tell 'em for years

exposed to it, oh, well, why, Bert?

We know you're, you know, you're setting us up and I'm not setting up.

Failure is how we learn.

It is the best teacher you can ever have.

If you can get outta your own way and understand the lesson.

I mean, you go to the gym, you work out, you go to failure to,

to develop strength and growth.

You want to fail at something.

You don't wanna fail all the time.

You know what I mean?

Like I, but if, if you can fail or if you do fail at something, note

it and, and fix it or do better.

I mean, you gotta, and if, and if you don't fail at anything, there's

no reason you free you to be.

I mean, you're the best.

You're the best ever.

So don't worry about it.

Yeah.

Look, sometimes you'll learn the most from your failures.

I would argue that they are.

If you can wrap your head around that, it's okay.

They are the single best thing that you will ever learn from because

you took the opportunity to take a shot and you didn't make it.

So what can you do to do it again?

Now, if you take that failure and you say, well, I'm never gonna do

this again, because it felt bad, but you didn't learn the lesson.

I mean, that's on you.

Like you, you didn't learn the lesson.

The lesson was, Hey, you fix this and you succeed.

Now go do it.

Yeah.

Sometimes you need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Yeah, absolutely.

And putting yourself in those situations.

Absolutely.

Uh, Tony, this has been a, a blast, uh, conversation.

Where do people find your company or social media website?

Uh, it's, um, our company is just burino inc.com.

Um.

I, I don't really, we don't really have social media.

I am terrible at that.

I got a Facebook because we got the company.

Um, so I'm not really a social media person.

Uh, so we don't have, I, my brother does something on Inca.

I don't, I think it's Belina Ink is what it is.

I, I think, okay.

I'll put it in the show notes for, for people that, uh, yeah.

Wanna find out more.

Uh, Tony, it's, it's really inspiring what you're doing and it's great that,

you know, there's three apprentices there who are going through that, and I hope

they, uh, hope they do well and, uh.

Keep making an impact and uh, thank you.

Doing good out there.

So thank you so much for being on the show.

Yeah, thanks.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

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