In this episode of Odejuma, Harry is in conversation with Zola Dee, a playwright, screenwriter, and performer whose work [Home] going is the recipient of this year's Kesselring Prize for Playwriting. Zola grew up in Winston-Salem, moved through Los Angeles and Berlin, and landed in Minneapolis, and home has never been a fixed place for her so much as a question she keeps writing toward. She talks about what belonging costs, how African diasporic spiritual traditions and Black Americana live inside her plays, and the people who choose to dream a better world into being. This is a conversation about identity, displacement, and the stories we inherit and remake. Sit with it. You may hear your own longing for home somewhere in hers.

Connect with Zola on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamzoladee/

For more information on Zola, visit: https://www.zoladee.com/

Connect with Harry on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/harryitie/

For more information on Harry, visit: https://www.harryitie.com/

Get Odejuma delivered straight to your inbox, alongside personal reflections on the episode by subscribing to the Substack here: https://odejuma.substack.com/

Hi, my name is Harry and welcome to Odejuma.

Odejuma is an ishakiri farewell that loosely translates to till tomorrow.

But for me, I look at it as a promise that there is so much more in life to look forward to.

And this interview driven storytelling podcast is rooted in that promise.

So as you take the time to listen, I want you to feel that as we go deeper with folks from across the Black diaspora, exploring the adventures, resilience, joy and the ordinary moments that change their lives, that you would have a good hearty laugh with or you find something to sit with.

Because there is power in the stories of everyday people and these stories are worth telling.

Hey, y'.

All.

Welcome back to Odejo Ma.

My name is Harry Etie.

Excited about this episode and very grateful that you're joining us today.

If this is your first time, please use the like button and follow wherever you listen to your podcast, whether it's Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, wherever.

Give us that follow and also rate the podcast if you can.

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I am super excited about my guest today.

Her work moves through themes of home and displacement, Black Americana, African diasporic, spiritual traditions, queerness, and the imagining of farewells for the black collective body.

Originally From Winston Salem, North Carolina and a CalArts graduate, she's built her career in Los Angeles before moving to Minneapolis and her best known play, Gunshot Medley Part 1, was Ovation Award recommended, published in Routledge, Contemporary Plays by Women of Color.

Her work has been developed at the National Black Theater of Harlem, the Playwright Center, East West Players, and Edinburgh Edinburgh Fringe, among others.

Y', all, that is such a heavy resume.

So just, let's just welcome Zola D. Hi, Zola, how are you doing?

Hi.

I'm so, so good and so excited to be here today.

Yes, yes, yes.

I'm excited to have you here.

It's so.

It's so very refreshing to be speaking with someone who is just doing amazing work, you know, in the artistic space.

So thank you for coming on.

Like I said, I just read Your bio.

And I'm sure, like, the viewers are like, oh, my God.

My God.

You know, it's very heavy.

Before we dive into your work, I want.

I want people to know who the person is behind all of this, you know, heavy bio.

So who is Zola taking away all the, you know, be going beyond the bio and taking away all the accolades?

How would you describe yourself for sure?

You know, I think that my bio of how I describe myself is changing all the time.

Right now, I would say Zola is a banjo player.

She is a girl who loves to take walks around the lakes in Minnesota, and she's a Southern gal.

Like, I grew up in North Carolina.

All of my family is from South Carolina.

So I'm a Carolina girl.

And yeah, I think those would be the best ways to describe me.

Shout out to the banjo player.

Have you always played the banjo, or is this something new that you just discovered?

It's new.

So when I wrote my first play, Gunshot Medley, I wrote in the playwright's notes, I was like, a banjo must always be played with this play.

And that led me, because of that play.

And they were using a lot of, like, African or not like, African American folk songs, Appalachian folk songs.

Like, I did a lot of research, and that's when I found out that the banjo is an African instrument.

And so that's why I was like, it has to be in this play whenever it's played.

And that began my fascination.

But no, I started.

I officially started learning the banjo a year ago.

Oh, wow.

And now, like, because I know there's like a video on your Instagram of you playing it, like a professional and.

Stuff, it seems like professional, but I'm still very beginner.

Very, very beginner.

Okay, okay.

Shout out to that.

And he said, you are a Southern girl through and through.

From the South.

How did you go from the south to the cold to the cold town or the cold city of Minneapolis?

Well, I'm in between, because I know there is.

There is la, There's Berlin.

So what was that journey like, going from all.

Going to all these different parts of the world?

Who.

So, you know, I grew up again, like I said, North Carolina.

North Carolina girl.

Spent the summers in South Carolina with my grandma in Sunset.

Sunset.

Oh, my God, now I'm forgetting the name of the neighborhood.

My grandmother.

But yeah, Sunset Park.

Yes.

But it's.

It's interesting.

Like, I actually went to North Carolina School of the Arts, their high school program.

At that time, it was free because, you know, my Parents didn't have that much money.

And when I went to college, there was like, how are you paying for it?

Like, how are you going to pay for this?

Because we, we can't pay for it.

So anyway, I went to high school at University of North Carolina School of the Arts.

It was a boarding school for high schoolers and it was on the university campus.

Actually, at that time I thought like, my goal was to get into uncsa.

I was like, I need to be an actor at this college.

Like, this is the only school I want to go to.

And in the middle of my audition for college, the fire alarm started going off.

Like, yes.

And you know, like, how old was that?

16, 17 Year old me was like, what do I do?

Like, it was like that.

Like, I'm in the middle of the monologue, I'm like, what should I do?

And I thought I was like, well, you know, a real professional will just keep going.

So I kept going.

I did not stop.

I went right through that monologue.

And when I got my rejection letter from University of North Carolina School of the Arts, I was like, it's because I did not stop, stop during the fire alarm.

But who knows?

Like, I think actually what ended up, how life does, like, the best possible thing happened for me.

So I ended up right.

Like, I just feel like sometimes life is just like, you know what, I want you to go this way.

And I ended up actually going to the Unifieds in Chicago.

And for those people who don't know Unifieds is when they like have all of the colleges go to either Chicago or New York.

And I think they do it on the west coast as well.

And you audition for all of the schools all at once.

So I auditioned for BU.

I auditioned for DePaul.

I auditioned for California Institute of the Arts.

And when I auditioned for California Institute of the Arts, Nataki Garrett, who was running the acting for undergraduates, was a black woman.

And that was the only audition that I had gone to that like a black woman was running the program.

And I also had, like, at the time, I was a visual artist as well.

So I had brought some of my paintings with me.

And she was like, you will fit in at CalArts.

This place is for you.

And I didn't even see the school.

I actually it came down between CalArts and the U of M for acting.

And I went to the U of M callbacks and I fell and slipped on black ice.

And I was like, my southern butt cannot not be up here in the cold.

So I went to the yes.

But as life has it, you know, I lived in California, went to school in California, started my career out there.

And then during the pandemic, I was like, I'm gonna, I'm going to apply for everything because I need something different.

And I was actually at that time working at the Pasadena Playhouse, and I was like, I'm doing the art admin thing, but I'm not feeling very much like an artist, so I need something, something else.

So I applied for everything, applied to the Fulbright, I applied to grad school, and I applied for the Playwright center.

And I was like, whatever I get, I will go.

And the only thing I got was the Playwright center and it was the mini Voices Fellowship at the Playwright center and.

Yeah.

Yep.

And that's, that's how I came.

I got here.

I got here.

You're always going to be here.

Is that what you said?

I thought it was only going to be a year.

I was like, I'm going to do one year in Minnesota and I'm going to take my butt back to California.

And here we are.

What, what, what would you say has kept you here this long?

Yeah, I mean, you know, everyone knows, like, I, I'm, even though I am a Southern girl, like, I love California, like, I am a proud transplant of Los Angeles, but it's expensive.

It is so expensive.

And the cost of living in Minnesota is just like.

I mean, you can't really compare.

It's like I can have this beautiful one bedroom apartment and that's what I would be paying, you know, to live with, like two people in a hot trendy neighborhood in la.

And then there's so much arts funding, so I got a second fellowship, which was the Jerome Fellowship through the Playwright Center.

And then that's when I thought I was like, okay, after this, I'm going to go back to LA again.

As life has it, I ended up in Berlin because my life was kind of falling apart and I didn't know what I was doing with my life.

And then I came back and that's when I found out that I got the Jerome Hill.

And, yeah, now I have this Jerome Hill.

And I have to either be in Minnesota or New York.

And I'm here.

Baby.

That is so cool.

And I feel like looking at your, looking at your career trajectory and all these amazing things that have happened to you, I feel like, what is the lessons that you're taking from?

You know, trusting and believing in your gift a little bit more, because I feel like I don't know.

I don't want to assume that it's the pandemic that made you be like, okay, fine, let me take some time out and apply for these things.

But the fact that you've been able to apply and, you know, go forward a lot more, what lessons have you learned, you know, from this experience so far?

Yeah, I mean, I think what I've learned, and I don't even know if I can say this, what I learned, but what I am also currently learning is like, how to balance the optimism and the hunger and the drive to be an artist with the realities.

Right.

Like, going back to, like when I moved out here to Minnesota, I thought I was gonna go back to la.

And then, you know, after the pandemic, prices started rising and rent started going up and I was like, that makes no sense.

And I thought I was going to go write for film and tv.

And then the strikes happened and then Hollywood is like constantly collapsing right now.

So it's like, I know the dream of what I want, but also like the realistic or being realistic with how the world is shaping out to be.

It's like Minnesota provides so much and I have to be realistic that, like, of course, you know, I may want to go back to LA just because that's where.

Where I got my career started, my roots.

A lot of my college friends are still out there, but Minnesota also has a lot to give.

And it's like, also it's so beautiful during the summer.

The winters are hard for me.

I don't know if they're hard for you.

They're hard for me to.

I'm from Nigeria.

The winters are hard for me, but the summer is the best thing ever.

And it's like, I just need to be someplace warm.

I'm like.

I tell people, I'm like, my ancestry is not set up for this, like in the winter, you know.

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

If I can do the summers here at the winter someplace else, it will be great.

But sometimes I feel like there's also a lot more really cool programming that happens in the winter here that, you know, I'm like, oh, God, I guess I'm here now.

Yeah, well, and it's hard thing where it's like, you know, because everything has to go indoors, then so many things pop off in the winter, you know?

Yes, yes, I know.

I know the feeling.

You said in your bio, and I read it and I read this a little bit and I want you to break it down a little bit for me.

You talked about themes of home and displacement, Black Americana, African diasporic spiritual traditions, queerness, and the imagining of real worlds for the black collective body.

So what does that mean in practice, according to your artistic practice?

How does it help your creative process?

What does it look like?

Oh, in reality?

Yeah.

Okay.

I may have to ask you to remind me each one, because I'm, like, trying to go through and be like, which one is which?

Yeah, yeah.

We can start from.

We can start from the things around that I'm really fascinated about, personally, as someone who is from Nigeria.

The African Diasporic Spiritual Traditions piece.

Where did that connection come from for you?

And why was it important that you want to reflect that in your work?

Yes, so.

So I was raised Baptist.

I actually was just having a conversation with someone the other day.

I was like, I mean, I'm from the South.

Was I raised Southern Baptist?

Is that totally different?

Like, am I Southern or am I just Baptist from the South?

I don't know.

But, you know, I was raised Baptist, and I was raised in the south, and I was raised in the black church.

And, like, I mean, I'm talking about my grandmother.

Like, every time we were sitting down at the table, we had to do grace, but you also had to say a Bible verse.

So it's like, I remember my grandmother's Bible verse.

I remember my Bible verse.

Mine was always the 23rd Psalm.

And so I was very steeped in that.

And then as I got older, just because of how the black churches, especially in the south, how they treated queer people, I was like, I don't really.

I just had a schism.

I had a moment where I was like, I need to step away from this.

And so I went down into all these different, like, Buddhism and Hinduism and, like, New Age practices.

And it wasn't until there was this moment where I was like, wait, what were my actual ancestors?

Like, what were they doing?

You know?

And it was actually Terrell Alpha McCraney's in the red and Brown Water.

I was in a production of that when I was in college.

I actually.

Because I was actually an actor in college.

I wasn't a writer in college.

And that was.

I was playing the character in the script.

Her name is Shun, but Oshun.

And so I was playing Oshun.

And we had a Cuban teacher at the school named Marissa Chivas.

And after that show, she would always be like, ochun, Ochun.

Like, she would always see me and call me Ochun.

And so then I just got way more into, like, what is this?

Like, and that was from A more like Lukumi Santeria aspect.

And so I went digging, and then the first play I wrote, Gunshot Medley, I was writing it, and when I originally wrote the piece, I had found three graves, and they had the names Betty, Alvis and George on it, and it only had their death dates.

And at the time when I wrote that piece, it was right after the Charleston massacre had happened, and people were putting up Confederate flags all over the South.

And so I wanted to write this response piece.

And so I wrote these characters, Betty, Alvis and George, and I had this other character called the high Priestess of Souls.

And I, you know, I just named her the high priestess of Souls.

And then what ended up happening was a friend of mine reading, and they were like, you know, this is Oya.

And I was like, it is.

The character was bringing, like, the storm and, like, the wind.

And all the characters in the play, Betty, Alvis and George, they would talk about the wind when they would talk about the High Priestess of Souls.

And I was like, this is so Oya.

And, like, Oya watches over the dead.

She's the gates to the cemetery.

And so it started with, like, playing the character of Oshun, and then Oya.

And I just realized as time has gone on, like, Oya has just become such a, like, kind of fixture in my life.

Like.

Like, I have not.

What's the word?

Like, I haven't had an initiation into IFA or ISHECHE or Chantore or Condomle.

But, yeah, I have a deep connection to Oya, and I love her very dearly.

And from that, it's made me look even more into, like, you know, bakongo cosmology and the Congo.

And so just thinking of, like, the diaspora and how, you know, enslaved Africans who are brought to the Americas, like, what were those traditions that, like, carry forward?

Yeah, yeah.

It's very interesting.

You talk about queerness as the.

As the thing that questioned how you were engaging with your spirituality.

And I think that for a lot of people who are queer, myself included, I feel like my first step in deconstructing my faith came from, you know, finally accepting that, okay, I am a queer person.

And what does this mean for me in this framework of Christianity as we understand it in the 21st century?

What does that look like?

Right.

And that informing how I start to move into and engage.

How would you describe your relationship now with your personal faith that you.

You know, your personal faith and the fit that you grew up with as a child that some somehow is going to always remain because, you know, it's part of, like, your culture, and there's familiarity there.

And you talked about saying grace with your grandmother during dinner.

So how do you balance both and how do you.

What does.

What does that look like for you in this moment?

Yeah, that is a really great question because I think it's always a constant back and forth of, like.

Like you said, finding comfort in it.

Like, I still repeat the 23rd Psalm, but, you know, as I've gotten older and I've been developing my relationship with spirituality, it's like I keep.

It's actually right behind me, but I keep, like, an altar with, like, my grandmother's photo on it and my grandfather and some of my aunts and uncles.

And sometimes when I'm, you know, I will say the 23rd Psalm, as it is in the Bible, like, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.

And then sometimes I change it up and I'm like, the ancestors of my shepherd, I shall not want.

You know, And I really have, like, started thinking more about what it means to have a connection with my ancestors.

And, like, I think a lot of African diasporic religions have that deep connection to the ancestors that.

That's what I'm really interested in.

So, again, it's like, sometimes I'm taking the Christianity and I'm like, mixing it with the, like, okay, this is how I'm going to actually venerate my ancestors.

And I'm going to use the Bible, which some would say that's just voodoo, right?

So.

Yeah, that's real.

That's real.

How.

How's your family responding to you shifting in that regard?

Like, are they very open?

Are they out?

You'll know after this comes out.

But, you know, it's like, it's one of those things where I don't talk about it because I know how much it means to them.

You know, I know how much Jesus and the church, all of that means to them.

And for me, I don't necessarily need to have that conversation with them because it's like, I'm gonna do me and I'm gonna let you do you.

I know just my family.

I mean, for a lot of them, I think even talking to your ancestors, like, for them, that would be demonic, right?

Or they would say things like that.

And for me, it's like, that's not as.

It's really not.

This is what our ancestors have been doing for the last 300, 400 years.

To call our ancestors a demon is, like, so, so crazy to me.

But, yeah, so we don't really Talk about it.

Yeah.

And sometimes you're right.

Sometimes you guys let people do what they do.

As long as we're.

We're both.

We are not hurting each other.

We are in love.

We're moving in love.

I think that's the only.

That's the only way to go.

I want to talk about the Black Americana piece.

I know there was a lot of conversation when Beyonce released Cowboy Carter around Black Americana.

What that looked like it was a thesis for days on social media.

What does Black Americana mean to you and how does that also reflect in your work as well?

Yeah.

Again, another great question.

I think that Black Americana, for me, and it's going back to, like, actually it kind of goes back to the home and displacement.

Right.

So you have all of the.

And I. I think the home and displacement for specifically black folks in the Americas, because something that I noticed when I was going to Europe and even sometimes here in the United States, especially in the Twin Cities, where you have a whole diverse population of black folks from West Africa, from Somalia.

Right.

And so I get this question, where are you from?

And especially when I was in Europe with the, like, African diasporic population in Europe, they would always be like, where are you from?

And it'd be like, from the US and they'd be like, but no, where are your people from?

And so I would be like, well, there's this thing called the transatlantic slave trade.

So I don't know fully where they are from.

And it would always kind of be like, almost like kind of sad, like, oh, you don't know where you're from.

And I always thought it was so interesting, especially with African American people from.

Again, from the United States, because we don't have that conversation with Brazil, Afro Brazilians or Afro Cubans or Jamaicans.

Right.

If a Jamaican says, I'm from Jamaica, they're just, okay, you Jamaican.

Right.

But with African Americans, it was always this kind of thing of like, oh, you don't have a home.

So there's always this thing.

And I feel like with W.E.

Dubois, how he talks about the double consciousness.

It's like the blackness, the American ness.

It's always kind of warring between each other.

Now, I've forgotten the beginning of the conversation where you.

What you read about how black Americana relates to your work.

And I think you were talking about exploring African American.

Yeah.

Heritage.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, I think it's all of that.

I think it's like Dubbie dubois is like double consciousness.

This Americanness, this blackness that's warring because there is it can't really settle within one body.

And I think that's what black Americana is.

And I think black Americana is black folks being denied their American ness.

For so long.

Black folks built this place, right.

It's like we built so much of America just with our, like, blood, sweat, and tears, that, you know, the denial of our American ness, whether it be the banjo, whether it be like, all of these little things, things that have contributed to society, like, I'll play the banjo.

And I have people in my comments, like, especially when I was posting on TikTok, and they'd be like, why are you playing this white instrument?

Or.

Or like, people will find out I played the banjo, and they'll be like, that's so random that you played the banjo.

And it's like, no, it's not.

It is a black.

It is from West Africa.

Like, this is my instrument.

This is my people's instrument.

So for me, that's what black Americana is.

It's like, always competing with our Americanness because we've been denied that and then reclaiming it.

Yeah.

And I also feel like those.

Those converse are very unproductive.

I feel like when you say, where are you from?

I'm from.

I'm from here.

I have, like.

You have a lineage that goes decades, centuries, Right?

I think a century is 100 years.

Yeah, yeah.

But I will say I did give my African ancestry DNA test done with my dad family, and they trace you back to, like, a tribe in Africa, and it's the.

The Jola people in Guinea Bissau and Senegal.

So I'm like, well, if I go to one place, at least one day when I go to Africa, it's gonna even be.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean.

I mean.

I mean, I tell people all the time because, you know, I feel a little tomorrow in being in the.

You know, living in.

Living here and having to engage in diaspora war sometimes.

It's like.

It's like, you know, it's very unproductive.

It's not.

It doesn't make any sense.

You know, African Americans are from here.

Nobody has the same ethnicity, genealogy, genealogical makeup.

You know, the African Americans have.

Is very unique, is very specific.

And this is the land that their ancestors toiled and built.

And so this is where they are from as well.

And there has to be a level of respect that we accord, you know, when we have those conversations, you know what I'm saying?

No, 100%.

And like, I'm actually, I've been developing, like, very loosely.

We're just in the beginning phases developing this piece with Nigerian director Ibi in New York.

And we talk about this all the time.

We're like, we do not care about these diaspora wars.

Like, this is so ridiculous.

It's so ridiculous.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's pretty cool.

That's really cool.

Thank you for sharing that, that piece.

I want to go a little bit further into how you went from acting now, and now you're doing, you're.

You're now a full time writer.

Yeah.

What was that transition for you?

Like?

And you know, you've, I'm sure in your mind you imagine that that was where you were going to be or what you were going to do.

You know, you had those auditions, you did those, all those monologues, and now your career is moving in a different path.

What was that transition like for you?

And would you ever go back to acting?

That is a great, great question.

I love this podcast.

Like, we try, we try over here.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, it's so funny.

As a child, I thought I was going to be Alicia Keys, right?

So I was like, I want to be a singer.

I wanted to play the piano.

I started playing piano lessons.

I took piano lessons, I think for like six years and then had the braids and everything.

And I thought I wanted to be a musician.

And I got into like, acting and visual arts, but I was always like, I'm gonna do music and I'm gonna be a singer.

And that kind of led me into musical theater because I was like, oh, I can sing and act, right?

And then I was like, I'm gonna be in musical theater and I'm gonna be on Broadway.

Like, I remember in middle school I had to do one of those, like, what's your career gonna be?

And I brought out like a whole poster board that was like, this is what it means to be a Broadway actor and this is what I'm gonna be one day.

Yes, I really was on that.

What's funny is, like, I was saying through that audition process, because I went to North Carolina School of the Arts, the head of the acting program for high school, he literally said to me, he was like, so you can't dance.

You are not going to be able to go to like, musical theater training undergrad.

Which in hindsight, I'm like, why would he say that to me?

I mean, everybody can learn.

You can learn how to dance, I'm guessing.

Yes.

That is so interesting.

It's just, like, I don't pick up choreography really well.

So he was like, yeah, I just don't really see that for you.

And so he tried to put me in this, like, straight acting path, which was what kind of led me to Cal Arts.

And I didn't know it at the time, but CalArts was an experimental theater school.

Like, I'm talking about, like, us ripping our clothes off on stage and us, like, doing really experimental stuff.

And y' all do hair?

What?

Do y' all do hair?

Because that's the only.

That's the only musical I know where they take off their clothes.

No, we didn't even do musicals.

Like, if we.

Like, actually, the.

The one year that was a musical at CalArts, it was the Threepenny Opera, which I think is by Brecht.

I don't.

I could be wrong, but.

Yeah, like, that's.

That we weren't even doing musicals.

Like, it was just like.

Like, straight acting.

Like, sometimes saying nonsensical things.

Anyway.

Yes.

And I was getting cast in all of the most experimental ways, like, the.

Absolutely.

Which I didn't understand that either.

And I had a meltdown.

I think it was like my third.

My second year, I had a meltdown, and I was like, I hate this.

Oh, no.

It was my third year, and I was like, I. I hate this.

Like, I. I want to write something that feels.

Or I want to be in something that feels like.

I don't know.

Like, I can relate to that.

I really love.

And I had a lot of people urging me to, yeah, do it.

They were just like, okay, then write something.

Write something you love.

And so at CalArts, we had this thing called the New Work Festival, and basically, they gave us all of the, like, theater spaces, gave students theater spaces.

I think it was like, a week or two weeks at the end of the school year, but we basically could just put up our own work.

And so that's when I put up Gunshot medley.

And then Gunshot medley was kind of a hit at the school.

And then they were like.

The school basically was like, we need to take this to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

So then it went to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

Then I had a run to la, and I was like, well, I guess I'm a playwright now.

I'm a good one at that, you know?

Yeah.

And it kind of all.

Like, it all fell into place.

And then after a while, like, I got into la.

I had a manager right after School for acting.

And I was like, I don't want to do this rat race.

Like, I really want to kind of control my own destiny.

I want to be able to have my own time.

And so that's when I got into writing and doing arts administrative work.

And the funny thing is that once I moved to Minnesota, people kept asking me to act in things.

So I've been acting more in Minnesota than I ever did in la.

And it's because people found out I was an actor, and they're like, yeah, can you do that?

How was acting being here in Minnesota?

It's been interesting.

Like, I mean, truly.

Like, when I.

When I graduated CalArt, I think I may have been in one play outside of college, but I really kind of, like, ended my acting career.

And then, like, I was saying, like, I had a whole year where I didn't know what I was doing with my life.

I, like, left.

I thought I was leaving Minnesota, and I just ended up being in Berlin for, like, as long as my tourist visa let me be there.

So it was, like, three months and I was there, and I got an email that was like, can you audition for the Color Purple?

And I was like, okay.

And it was Theater Latte da's production of the Color Purple.

And I auditioned, and they were like, okay.

Well, I kept going back and forth with them sending tapes from Berlin.

At one point, I was in Paris, and I was trying to, like, be in this Airbnb in Paris doing this update.

And then they were like, yeah, we want to give you the role of so week, but will you understudy for Sealy?

And I was like, no.

Like, when you think of, like.

Like.

Like Ely, you think Cynthia Revo, right?

You know?

Yeah, yeah.

Absolutely.

I'm not prepared for that.

And they were like, well, like, if you accept this role, like, you.

You have to accept the understudy for Celie.

And they're like, but you'll probably never go on.

And I was like, mm, Mm.

And then I. I did.

I went on multiple times.

It's interesting because after that, I was like, I never.

I never actually need to act again.

Like, I fulfilled a childhood dream.

I have performed as a lead in a musical, and I don't need to do that.

That is a lot of work.

That is a lot.

And I saw.

I saw that production.

I think Nubia amongst was.

Yeah.

And I think it was a good production.

So, you know, y'.

All.

Y' all did your big one with that.

So.

So after so you've done the Color Popper.

What other shows have you done in Minnesota?

So I have not been.

That was like the show that I did.

But I've been.

Because I do still work in arts admin.

I'm like, I can't really go and do a show.

So a lot of times I'll into the Playwright center and like, read for them.

I've done a lot of readings with theater la, and then I do some reading.

I've done some reading at the History Theater.

So the acting has not been like full production acting, but like, I'll come in and be that person that's helping them with like a workshop or like a play festival or something like that.

Okay.

Okay, that's cool.

So you're a working artist and you're doing arts admin.

You have this, you have this fellowship and then you're a resident playwright at the National Black Theater in New York.

How are you balancing all of these?

This feels like, you know, this was like a lot.

I don't even know, telling someone.

I, you know, I really went through a massive burnout a couple of months ago.

I mean, I'm just kind of clawing myself out of it.

But I was here in Minnesota and I was helping.

I'm on the board of my friend's like, theater company, performance art called Dark Muse.

And we're having a board meeting and she saw me and she was just like, I have never seen you like this.

Are you okay?

Like, you don't seem well.

And I was like, yeah, I'm not like.

And I just like that.

All I can say is like, I'm not.

And it's because I, you know, I think trying to be.

Being a full time artist is already hard.

And then like, having a full time day job is hard.

And then just trying to be a decent human being who goes to the gym and sees their friends.

Like, how do you make the time?

And so, you know, sometimes I feel like I'm kind of failing in a different category.

Like, I haven't even written in a couple of weeks now, and I'm like, I really gotta get back to working on that for the National Black Theater.

But then, you know, it's.

It all kind of ebbs and flows.

And I think it's like right now I'm just trying to figure out how do I rest, how do I find time to take care of myself?

Because if I don't take care of myself, like, and that's what happened with the burnout.

I wasn't really taking care of myself, but if I can't take care of my.

Myself, I can't do the other things.

So.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure it out right now, too.

That's real.

That's real.

And, you know, congrats on the National Black Theater.

I've always wanted to go there.

Every time I'm in New York, they don't have anything.

Sure.

I've been trying to.

I'm gonna be in New York twice this year.

And you don't have.

You know, I think the window between both is when you have something.

I think it's a John Legend show.

Yes, the Imitation of Life show.

Yeah, I'm like, I really want to see that.

But, you know.

But congratulations on that as well.

And so Homegoing was read for the National Black Theater, and that's what won the prize, if I'm correct.

Right?

Yeah.

So the National Black Theater, they have this I Am Soul residency.

Basically, it's like they commission us, but it's more not a commission in the sense of, like, we're going to have you write the play, and then we're going to put the play up.

It's more like we're going to give you this money so that you have the space to dream up a play.

Um, and then they do have, like, a development process with it.

So you get two 29 hours, and then a public presentation.

It's not a full production, but a public presentation.

And, yeah, I remember when I came to them, I gave them a bunch of different ideas of what I wanted to, but I didn't really have a true, clear idea.

And I got the fellowship or the residency.

And that's when I was like, okay, I know I want it to take place during Reconstruction, but I also want it to be a love story story, like a black love story.

But then, you know, all of these themes of mental health started coming into the play as well.

So it's this big amalgamation of a lot of different things going on.

Like, even on our last workshop, like, some of the actors were like, there's a lot going on in here, and in a good way, too.

Like, a lot to feed the actors.

But, yeah, I think I'm really grateful for the Kesselring, because I knew I was throwing a lot into one play.

And to see that, like, taking the risk of being like, okay, I'm gonna do my big one, and it to be honored in that way.

Cause I remember even telling people, like, when I first had, actually, the first idea I had for this play, it wasn't even about Reconstruction.

I was just like, I have the idea of rice falling on a tin roof.

Like, that is like the image I have.

And I don't know where that's gonna go, but that.

That's it.

And so that's the very last image in the play actually, is just this, like, rice falling on the tin roof.

And when I finished the play, I remember, like, texting some of my friends and I was like, I think this is the best thing I've ever written.

Like, I think this truly is.

And so it was this crazy thing where, like, I knew it was the best thing I had ever written.

I didn't necessarily need it to be validated by anybody else, but to have that validation with the Kessel Ring, I was like.

I knew I was right.

I knew this was the best thing I had ever written.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you won the prize for that, so congratulations on that.

Are we ever gonna see the play ever come into reality?

Yes.

What's the plan for it?

That is the goal is like, everything I write, I want to see it up and alive.

I think that what I'm realizing, I mean, it probably won't have a full production with National Black Theater, just because I know how they're set up.

It's probably.

So, yeah, we're trying to see of like, where what potential producing partners.

I'm constantly talking to my agent about that.

And so we'll see, we'll see, we'll see.

Fingers crossed.

I'm very hopeful that, you know, that works out for you.

I have a bunch of rapid fire questions for you to answer to get to know you a little bit better.

We've heard about your journey.

We've heard about your career, you know, and your craft.

We heard about your award winning play.

Now I want to just show you a little bit.

A little bit, you know, in a much more informal setting.

So the first one is, what are three songs on your playlist right now?

I don't even know if I have three songs.

Okay, wait.

Okay.

I just have to.

Rapid fire.

Okay.

So it would be something by Dijon.

Maybe the dress.

The dress by Dijon.

I'm listening to a lot of McGee right now.

Probably you got it by McGee.

And then Olivia Dean, man, I need.

Okay.

Shout out to Olivia Dean.

Is there a playwright that you absolutely adore their work, like, everything they've done, you're like, a fan of and what is the play that they've written that you really, absolutely love?

Yes.

Wait, can I just go back to Olivia Dean real quick?

I was an Olivia Dean fan before anybody else was an Olivia Dean fan.

And the fact that I don't have tickets to her concert, I'm really upset about that.

So I just.

Was he sold out?

Yes.

And I'm talking about, like, sold out so quickly that I was like, you know what, y'?

All, I've been following this girl for years now.

Yo, y' all are not a fan.

Like, I'm a fan.

I'm sure you would get tickets.

What happens is a bunch of, you know, you know how this thing goes.

A bunch of people get on there, buy the tickets and resell them.

Resell them.

So what happens is on the day off, the prices will drop.

And so you can get to get on the day of that will be cheaper.

So don't, don't, don't give up just yet.

You're going to see.

You're going to see her live for sure.

Yes.

But.

Yes.

So your.

Your second question of, like, a playwright whose work that I absolutely love.

I mean, I would say, like, one of my biggest inspirations was Susan Laurie Parks.

Love Susan Laurie Parks.

I mean, I love Alicia Harris's work.

I just love, like, black playwrights who are just thinking outside of the box.

You know, Brandon Jacob Jenkins.

Love Brandon Jacob Jenkins.

Yeah.

Good.

You know, just pushing, like, the work forward in a way that's really interesting.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes, I did.

I did.

I have a. I have a question, but I'll ask you that offline.

What is a place that feels most like home right now?

Most like home.

This is going to be so random, but during the winter, just for a little bit of the winter, I was in L. A and I was going to this co working spot called the Meadow in Los Angeles.

And I feel so crazy, but I was like, I love this place.

And I would tell, like, the people who work there that I was like, I love this place so much because whenever I work in, the walk in, the people would be so nice and so sweet, and I got so much work done there.

And it was a beautiful space anyway.

It was just so beautiful.

But I would say the Meadow felt like home.

And then also.

But I would say it's because it was in Highland park, which is a neighborhood in Los Angeles, and I used to live in that neighborhood.

And so that neighborhood, like, there's just something about that neighborhood for me that I'm like, that.

That feels like my little, like, transplant LA home.

Okay.

Okay, cool.

What is a ritual that you do before you write?

One ritual.

You don't have to give us all the things, but what's one ritual that you do before.

Before you write?

I don't have a ritual that's like.

I don't.

And it's.

And I say that because, like, a lot of times for me, it's like, which one I'm trying to get better at is to just have a practice of writing.

A lot of times the writing comes, like, I'll just start hearing character voices speaking, and I'll just start writing it down, right?

And so right now, I'm even just, like, carrying a little booklet that, like, if I'm out and about, I'll just, like, write down, like, what the character.

So, yeah, I don't know if I have one to begin writing, but I will.

This is really crazy.

And only my, like, super.

One of my super close colleagues, friends, homies, know this.

But, like, I know I've written something good if I start crying.

And so that's one.

That's kind of my gauge of, like.

Because I was, like, working on Homegoing, and I'm not gonna spoil it for anybody, you know, but I'll say there's this character, and she's in a mental health crisis.

And I thought that this play was going to be.

Because it's three parts, and I thought it was going to be the lead character presence.

Her mom is going through a mental health crisis, and I thought all three plays was going to be, like, present throughout her life, kind of like grappling with her mom's mental health issue.

And, you know, I'm just going to spoil it.

And then I realized by the end of the first play, I was like, misha, the mom.

I was like, she's not.

She's not gonna make it.

She's.

She don't make it through this.

And I just, like, started bawling.

And I was like, that's so emotionally true.

And that's it.

And that's when I wrote this.

I wrote that scene.

And that's the ending and not the full ending of the play.

There's other things that happen, but, like, yeah, so when I have a deep emotional connection, I know it's really real, it's true, and it's good.

And it reminds me, actually, of my acting training.

Like, Nataki Garrett, when we were in class, she was like, if you don't feel it, your audience doesn't feel it.

And I think I feel that way in my writing as well.

It's like, if I don't feel it, like, how do I expect other people to feel it too?

That's real.

That's real.

Who is your dream collaborator?

Like, in the theater, just.

It could be.

Anyway, it could be theater.

You can give multiple.

You could give theater, you could give film, you could give writer, you could give whatever.

Whatever collaborators are coming to, you can give them to all of us.

Okay.

I don't know if this is a cop out, but I'm going to just say it because it's the first person that popped up in my head.

I want to write the Beyonce musical.

When she's ready, when she's like, it's going to come call me.

Like, I put on TikTok.

Someone was.

Someone talked about jukebox musical.

Was in a.

You know, they'll say, tell me if you want to create a jukebox musical.

Tell me.

Well, you know, give me your other songs.

And I came up with, like, the other songs for.

For whatchamacallit.

For God, my head is before musical.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, what song will start?

What song will end act one, what song will start?

Act two.

What song?

Her career is so expansive that I'm like, I. I think that, like, actually her career is so expansive that, like, just the task to put together a jukebox musical of Beyonce's music, like, that would be so fascinating.

Like, so fun.

Yeah, it would be.

So you.

You have so much material to work with.

I think the.

The piece will be.

The hard work will be your world, your work, which is coming up with the book, right?

Yeah, that will.

That's where the work will be.

Because Renaissance could be its own jukebox musical.

Yeah, Like, Cowboy Carter could be harder.

Is his own jukebox music.

Oh, that is his odd.

And I was.

I read thinking about this.

I'm like, do you want to even pull from Destiny's Child catalog?

Because you can't tell the Beyonce story without Destiny's Child.

So you got that, and then you got, like, this career that has so much.

I'm like, damn, I know.

From your lips to God's ears.

I want you to write.

I wanted to write it because we deserve a Beyonce musical.

I think that we definitely deserve that for sure.

And I will say, when I was working in film and tv, it's so funny because it never came to fruition, but I wrote like, an Earth, Wind and Fire, basically, like, movie musical because I had been working with this producer who had the rights and Then they lost the rights, but yeah, so I'm like, I can do it, Beyonce.

I've already done the Earth, Wind and Fire movie musical that never got made, but we'll get this one.

Yes, we're going to get.

Send this to Parkwood.

Get Zola.

Zola has got an award, you know, put some respect on her name.

She can make this happen.

Let's call her and let's do it.

Okay.

What is your guilty pleasure?

Oh, I'm like, how real can I be on this podcast?

As real as you can be.

As real as you can be.

My guilty pleasure right now is a indica.

A nice indica and getting in the bathtub.

Like, literally taking two hits of a nice joint and then getting in the bathtub in a nice bath with magnesium salt.

Yeah, that's my guilty part.

That's the way to go.

I'm here for it.

I'm here for it.

Totally.

This is such a great conversation.

I want to ask you before I let you go, there are a lot of folks who want to get into.

Into the arts, who want to be writers.

What advice would you give emerging writers who are trying to find your way in this career?

Because it's actually very cutthroat, you know?

Yes, yes.

Find your people.

Like, truly, truly, truly.

Find your people.

And I think the best career advice I actually got, so I didn't even, like.

It's so funny.

It's like I'm only in my 30s, and it's like I'm looking back on my 20s and so much has happened.

Right.

And even before I moved to Minnesota, I had gotten a fellowship through the Playwright center, and it was called the.

Oh, my God, no.

Mini voice.

No, my Core Apprentice.

That's what it was.

It was called the Core Apprentice.

And through the Core Apprentice, at that time, they gave you basically, like, a mentorship with playwright.

And so the playwright who was my mentor was Dominique Morisseau.

And at that time, she was writing on Shameless in Los Angeles.

And I would, like, meet her at a Panera Bread and, like, North Hollywood.

And then she would bring me in to the rehearsals of Ain't Too Proud.

And so I was like, learning on being on the job.

Yeah.

But she.

One time I asked her, I was like, what would you say?

And she was like, build with the people around you.

Don't reach out to the Dominique Morisos, the Alicia Harris's, the Brandon Jacob Jenkins, and ask that, like, try and be part of their cohort.

Find the people around you and build with them.

And I think that, that.

And then she started being like.

Because, you know, you know, the people she was building with at the time where she was an emerging play, right.

She started naming some guy and he's just like, yeah.

And he would bring in his.

His, like they were teaching artists and he would bring in his, like, music and come to find out that was like he was working on in the Heights and it was Lin Manuel Miranda, you know.

And so she was already building with the people around her who were striving for the same things, and now they're like the American theater.

And so I like to think about that with me as well, but I even.

It doesn't even necessarily have to be, you know, other theater artists.

Like, I look at Taylor, Jasper the Walker, right?

And like, Taylor that.

I know that, like, you know, they're a colleague of mine and we're friends, but I feel like I know, like, one day we're going to be at the same level of, like, going to curating in New York and I'm going to have my play, like, up off Broadway or on Broadway, and we're going to be hitting it at the same level, you know, And I think that's why it's important to build with the people or even you, Harry, like, you doing this podcast, like, us elevating each other because you're going to go on and do amazing things.

And so, yeah, yeah, I think that's.

Real deals with your own people is the core, is the message.

I really appreciate that and I really appreciate you coming and giving us your time.

This has been such great conversation.

So thank you so much.

Thank you, Zola.

Thank you.

This is amazing.

I'm glad you liked it.

And if you have been watching or listening, thank you so much for staying with us till the end.

Don't forget to, like, follow, share, subscribe, do all the things.

This has been such great conversation.

I will share all the info for Zola in the description so you can connect and, you know, know more about her work.

Thank you so much for listening or watching Odejuma.