Shownotes
Rich Angstadt, president and founder of Angstadt Arms, joins State of the Second hosts John and Kaylee to trace how a personal want became a company built on innovation. Angstadt's grandfather got him into firearms young, and his family history runs back to the 1700s and 1800s, when the Angstadts were master gunsmiths crafting Kentucky long rifles and smooth bore muskets. Around 2011, after exiting a previous company, Rich had free time, was shooting IDPA and IPSC competitions, and wanted a 9mm AR built around a Glock pistol magazine while keeping all the AR15 controls. He took the design to SHOT Show in 2015, picked up big distributors and dealers, and helped shape what became the pistol caliber carbine market. The first gun was the UDP-9, a straight blowback AR9 on Glock magazines.
The conversation moves through the company's product arc and what drives Angstadt to keep building. Selection by the US Army for its subcompact weapon trials forced a sub-15-inch length requirement that pushed development of a modified cycle system with Deadfoot Arms. Angstadt didn't win that contract (B&T did), but the work gave birth to the MDP, a roller delayed AR9 that runs on Glock magazines, weighs three and a half pounds, and shoots flat and low-recoil like an MP5. Rich explains why the company chases innovation over the industry's me-too habit, and how metal 3D printing (laser sintering titanium, not polymer) gives speed to market. A new design can be printed, heat treated, and test fired in under a week, which lets the team try ideas that a full manufacturing line would never justify. Testing remains the part that can't be rushed, and contracts often dictate the accuracy and reliability standards.
The second half turns to suppressors and the NFA. Suppressor sales have surged on faster approval times, dropping from up to 12 months to as little as a day, and the $200 tax stamp goes to zero on January 1, 2026. Rich predicts deeper integration between firearm and suppressor, more integrally suppressed designs, and suppressors becoming a normalized product gun owners buy in multiples. He's bullish the NFA's days are numbered but less certain short barrel rifles will take off the way suppressors have, given how well pistol braces already serve that role. Kaylee details GOA's lawsuit to gut the NFA, explaining that the zero-dollar tax stamp creates the legal grounds to sue because the Supreme Court previously held the NFA could stand only because it was regulated under a tax. The group discusses normalizing gun culture, getting first-time owners into the fold, range rental programs, and starting new shooters on suppressed .22 so they never develop a flinch. Rich closes by pointing listeners to Angstadt Arms and asking them to support their local gun stores.
Questions this episode answers
How did Angstadt Arms get started, and what was the first gun the company built?
Rich Angstadt founded Angstadt Arms around 2011 after exiting a previous company, wanting a 9mm AR built on a Glock pistol magazine while keeping the AR15 controls. He brought it to SHOT Show in 2015, and the first gun was the UDP-9, a straight blowback AR9 that runs on Glock magazines.
What is the difference between Angstadt's straight blowback and roller delayed AR9s?
The original UDP-9 is a straight blowback AR9 on Glock magazines. The MDP is a roller delayed AR9 that also runs on Glock magazines, weighs three and a half pounds, and shoots flat and low-recoil like an MP5.
How does metal 3D printing change firearm prototyping and speed to market?
Angstadt Arms uses metal 3D printing by laser sintering titanium, not polymer, so a new design can be printed, heat treated, and test fired in under a week. That speed lets the team try ideas a full manufacturing line would never justify, though physical testing still can't be rushed.
Why was Angstadt selected for the US Army subcompact weapon trials, and what came out of it?
The Army's subcompact weapon trials imposed a sub-15-inch length requirement that pushed Angstadt to develop a modified cycle system with Deadfoot Arms. Angstadt did not win the contract, but the work gave birth to the MDP roller delayed AR9.
What is driving the surge in suppressor sales, and what changes on January 1, 2026?
Suppressor sales have surged as approval times dropped from up to 12 months to as little as a day. On January 1, 2026, the $200 tax stamp goes to zero, which Rich expects to normalize suppressors as a product gun owners buy in multiples.
Where does Rich see the next step in firearm innovation heading?
Rich predicts deeper integration between firearm and suppressor, with more integrally suppressed designs and suppressors becoming a normalized purchase. He is bullish the NFA's days are numbered, though less sure short barrel rifles will catch on the way suppressors have, since pistol braces already fill that role.
Why does the zero-dollar tax stamp give GOA legal grounds to sue over the NFA?
Gun Owners of America (GOA) is suing to gut the National Firearms Act (NFA). The argument is that the Supreme Court previously held the NFA could stand only because it was regulated under a tax, so a zero-dollar tax stamp removes that basis and creates the grounds to sue.
How can the industry normalize suppressors and bring first-time gun owners into the fold?
The episode points to range rental programs and starting new shooters on a suppressed .22 so they never develop a flinch. The broader goal is normalizing gun culture and getting first-time owners comfortable in the sport.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Welcome and guest introduction
- 00:34 — Rapid fire questions
- 03:49 — Company backstory and family gunsmithing history
- 05:18 — Scratching his own itch: the 9mm AR idea
- 08:33 — From the UDP-9 to the Army trials and the MDP
- 11:00 — Why keep innovating instead of resting
- 13:16 — The next step: suppressors and 3D printing
- 15:00 — Rapid prototyping and metal laser sintering
- 17:46 — R&D timelines and testing standards
- 21:23 — The me-too billet AR15 they shelved
- 23:01 — What breeds the best innovation
- 25:33 — The NFA, the disappearing tax stamp, and suppressor culture
- 31:39 — Soapbox: should you wait until January 1 to buy
- 34:22 — Normalizing suppressors for first-time owners
- 40:03 — GOA's lawsuit to gut the NFA
- 46:27 — Closing thoughts and where to find Angstadt
About the guest
Rich Angstadt is the president and founder of Angstadt Arms, a firearms and suppressor manufacturer the hosts introduce as trusted in over 30 countries. In the episode he says his grandfather got him into firearms at a young age, and that his family, the Angstadts, were master gunsmiths in the 1700s and 1800s who crafted firearms such as Kentucky long rifles and smooth bore muskets. He started the company around 2011 after exiting a previous company, wanting a 9mm AR built around a Glock pistol magazine, and brought it to SHOT Show in 2015.
Key quotes
"I like to see new guns come out, even if they're a little quirky or weird because I like to see people push the envelope" — Rich Angstadt
"It's almost hard not to keep innovating. At least that's, you know, from my standpoint, is we're always trying to elevate the shooting experience." — Rich Angstadt
"oftentimes we're talking about under a week where we have a new idea for design and we can actually be on the range testing it" — Rich Angstadt
"It didn't feel like an Angstadt product." — Rich Angstadt
"I think the NFA days are numbered." — Rich Angstadt
"the NFA tried to dictate gun culture and was successful in many ways for a long time" — Kaylee
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kayleigh.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're joined by Rich Angstadt of the president and founder of Angstadt Arms, a leading firearms and suppressor manufacturer trusted in over 30 countries.
Speaker B:Known for precision engineering and forward thinking design.
Speaker B: ftsmanship dating back to the: Speaker B:Bleeding time honored tradition with modern innovation.
Speaker B:Rich, that was a long intro.
Speaker C:I was gonna say.
Speaker C:That sounded incredible.
Speaker C:I need to hire you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Thanks for joining us.
Speaker B:Let's go ahead and with our first segment which is rapid fire questions.
Speaker B:We're going to ask you five questions.
Speaker B:You go ahead and answer them for us.
Speaker B:Let's start off with what do you prefer AR9 or AR15?
Speaker C:I mean for me I'm biased, but it's got to be an AR9.
Speaker A:What do you consider the most influential platform today?
Speaker C:I would say the AR as a platform.
Speaker C:I mean since that came back in after the assault weapons ban, you know, everybody went and got an AR15.
Speaker C:That has just continued to grow.
Speaker C:And we see it on the law enforcement, military side.
Speaker C:Obviously the military, but law enforcement and even the other guns that they're going to, while it's not an AR15 or an M4 shares all the same controls.
Speaker C:So I would definitely say that what.
Speaker B:A would you consider is the most underrated caliber?
Speaker C:Man, that is a really tough question.
Speaker C:I could go any number of ways there.
Speaker C:I'd say this is a really tough question.
Speaker C:Maybe 22.
Speaker C:Only because I know it's the most popular.
Speaker C:Only because.
Speaker C:Only because when you shoot it suppressed, it's that much better.
Speaker C:And Everybody should be shooting.22 all the time.
Speaker A:What was the first gun that you ever shot?
Speaker C:It was probably a Red Rider bb.
Speaker C:If we're talking a, a real firearm.
Speaker C:It was I'm guessing one of my grandfather's 12 gauges or one of his bolt action hunting rifles.
Speaker B:And the last one I've got for you is one firearm trend you'd like to see die off.
Speaker C:This is something that I see in the industry, which is kind of a me too.
Speaker C:Which is somebody comes out with something really cool or maybe a patent expires and now all of a sudden everybody can make that same variation of that gun.
Speaker C:And the trend is I'm just going to do it in brown, I'm going to do it in green and there's no real innovation.
Speaker C:I like to see new guns come out, even if they're a little quirky or weird because I like to see people push the envelope to all our.
Speaker B:Friends who love us and support us.
Speaker B:Glock Gen 3.
Speaker C:Anyways, now I say that and then you gotta ask me what I carry because it's going to be a me too product.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:So there's Chens that I can kind of poke fun of and then the day to day, what am I carrying?
Speaker C:It's usually a Glock 19 or a Glock 19 made by somebody else.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:That's a trend that has been going strong and I don't listen.
Speaker B:Great platform to build off of can, but it has also now become a me too product.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:Yeah, and maybe just expanding on that, doing something to take it in a different direction.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because how do you improve on perfection?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:If we're going to use Glock's term, well, you can do things differently because better is subjective.
Speaker C:Everybody's got their own preferences.
Speaker C:So I do think it's cool when somebody takes kind of a proven platform and steers it in a slightly different direction.
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Speaker B:Let's go ahead and dive into this.
Speaker B:So go ahead and give a little bit of backstory about your company, how you got started.
Speaker B:It sounds like you have a rich family history of innovation and technology and building.
Speaker B:So kind of dive into that.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's a. I struggle with where to start in this because, you know, going back to your question of the first gun I ever shot, my grandfather got me into firearms at a very, very young age.
Speaker C:And he was an enthusiast.
Speaker C:He was what I would call a rifleman.
Speaker C:Somebody that would go to the range every week, just meet with his friends, target practice, you know, loved all different types of guns.
Speaker C: and: Speaker C:So they crafted these incredibly beautiful, robust, you know, it would be a Kentucky long rifle, a smooth bore musket.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Octagonal barrels that not only looked beautiful above your fireplace, but also at the same time could be used to defend your family and was used for hunting and so I grew up with that kind of overshadowing guns where, you know, as a kid you get into them because they're just really fun, really cool to shoot.
Speaker C:But I was also taught from an early age just to appreciate them for the mechanical ability, the beautiful design, just how they were made.
Speaker C:And back then made by hand, right?
Speaker C:So we, you know, we manufacture firearms, we have all this fancy equipment that can do it for us.
Speaker C:But back then, I mean, you're talking about this was something that you trained the apprentice and he worked for you for 20 years, and then he could finally start making guns on his own.
Speaker C:So that was kind of the background of my love for firearms.
Speaker C: But really, it was around: Speaker C:And so at the time I had a lot of free time, which as an enthusiast, what are you going to do with your free time?
Speaker C:You're going to start shooting all the time.
Speaker C:Going to the range was doing a lot of IDPA and IPSIC competitions.
Speaker C:Not say that I'm a great shooter, it's just something I like to do is just have a lot of fun and shoot.
Speaker C:And really the idea was to, you know, classic tale of scratch your own itch, right?
Speaker C:So I wanted a 9 millimeter AR and I looked around and really at the time, all you had was basically updated Colt SMGs which used the metal stick magazine.
Speaker C:Nothing wrong with that platform, but it was pretty dated.
Speaker C:And really the caliber was kind of like an afterthought.
Speaker C:It looked like an AR15 with a skinny little mag hanging out of it.
Speaker C:And so I looked around and there really wasn't something that kind of filled that role.
Speaker C:There was a few companies doing something, but it was very targeted at builders.
Speaker C:You know, to build the gun, you had to like stick a roll of quarters in your buffer tube to shorten the stroke.
Speaker C:And there wasn't parts for it and you kind of had to cobble stuff together.
Speaker C:And I started playing around with that, this idea of going back to what do I carry?
Speaker C:Being a Glock pistol, you know, could we make this ar, scale it down around this Glock pistol magazine, but still retain all the AR15 controls?
Speaker C:And just started playing around with that, spinning up designs.
Speaker C:And then as kind of a long shot, I applied to Shot show because they were booked up and somebody canceled.
Speaker C: d we got in there And I think: Speaker C:We were able to pick up some big distributors, big dealers, and there seemed to really be an interest in this, what would become pistol caliber carbines.
Speaker B:You designed something that you want.
Speaker B:We hear that a lot from people who've designed stuff.
Speaker B:They want something in at.
Speaker B:What was your fear when you designed something that you want?
Speaker B:Were you worried that the market wasn't going to respond well?
Speaker B:You were just like, I don't care.
Speaker B:I wanted this and I was going to make it for everybody.
Speaker C:It's a little of both.
Speaker C:At the time I was, I had that free time and I didn't really think it was going to become what it became.
Speaker C:I was happy if, if I designed it and we made a few and I had a gun that I really wanted.
Speaker C:Luckily, when we started showing it around, I did get that positive feedback.
Speaker C:And I think it goes back to know people wanting to train.
Speaker C:A lot of people get in when they're new shooters, they start with maybe a handgun in 9 millimeter and then they see people at the range with an M4 and AR15 and they want to get into it.
Speaker C:Maybe they're a little hesitant.
Speaker C:The 9 mil AR kind of became like a gateway drug for them where it's like, oh, I already have the magazines, I already have the ammunition I can go to.
Speaker C:That gives me the platform and then I can go to a rifle caliber.
Speaker C:So I was getting that kind of positive feedback all along because you never want to completely invest everything in a company and have nobody show up or nobody be interested in purchasing it.
Speaker B:So as you, you designed this gun, you built it, you took the shot, everyone you could have just stuck with that.
Speaker B:And now you've, you've gotten some innovation and done some cool things.
Speaker B:We've got a titanium 3D printed can.
Speaker B:But let's kind of talk about the guns that have preceded that and how you go, you know, I went from this to now what's on your shirt, which is an amazing gun, get one.
Speaker B:But how did you go from that process?
Speaker B:And now.
Speaker B:Okay, now I've got something I want to expand and start building into things.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So the first gun that we created was the UDP 9.
Speaker C:And that was a straight blowback AR9 that ran on Glock pistol magazines.
Speaker C:And now again, I say that it sounds comical because everything takes Glock magazines.
Speaker C:But at the time, this was, I don't want to say groundbreaking, but it was very different than what was out there.
Speaker C:And so over the years we just kept making improvements to that platform.
Speaker C:And then thankfully we were selected by the US army to compete in their subcompact weapon trials.
Speaker C:And so they had this criteria where it had to be sub 15 inches.
Speaker C:So you know, the poundage had all these requirements in it.
Speaker C:And that length requirement is really tough when you're using an M4 buffer tube.
Speaker C:And so we worked with deadfoot arms at the time and basically took their modified cycle system and set it up for 9 mil so that could run in a full auto setting.
Speaker C:And so we spent a lot of time developing that.
Speaker C:And that was the gun that we submitted to the Army.
Speaker C:Ultimately we didn't get selected for it.
Speaker C:B and T won that contract, but it really gave birth to the gun that's on my shirt, which is the MDP and that is our roller delayed AR9.
Speaker C:So this one, I always make the comparison like it's an MP5 and an AR with Glock pistol magazines.
Speaker C:And so the, the beauty of this is it's incredibly light.
Speaker C:It's three and a half pounds, it's 14 and a half inches with a six inch barrel, very, very flat, shooting low recoil like an MP5.
Speaker C:And again it takes the most common pistol magazine.
Speaker C:So it was really just learning from the end user, in this case the US army, what are they looking for?
Speaker C:Because they're really going to set the tone for a lot of other outfits around the world.
Speaker C:And we want to make something that's well received.
Speaker C:And so we kind of took that direction from the SCW contract and then pushed into our development of the mdp.
Speaker B:Now I have to ask, which one do you prefer?
Speaker B:Do you prefer direct blowback or roller delayed?
Speaker C:Roller delayed.
Speaker C:Nothing wrong with the straight blowback.
Speaker C:You know, we still sell.
Speaker C:I'd say it's probably, they probably still make 60 or 70% of our sales.
Speaker C:On the gun side, it's at a much more value priced point because it's a lot simpler.
Speaker C:So when you look at the roller delays versus straight blowback.
Speaker C:Straight blowback, very, very simple.
Speaker C:It always runs incredibly reliable and you can get it at a cheap price point.
Speaker C:It's going to come at little bit heavier, a little bit more recoil than the roller delayed.
Speaker B:So you've got the PCC market, you're getting into it.
Speaker B:I've already talked about the, the 3D printing.
Speaker B:You moved on to the, the new guns.
Speaker B:What have, what has driven you to go innovate and go into these other spaces and these other things because a lot of people will go, well, you know, we're just getting started with this.
Speaker B:You've, you've seen a great jump.
Speaker B:You're, Your company's about 10 years old, so you've, you've really jumped out to It.
Speaker B:So how does that work for you guys when you go, okay, well, I think I'm going to jump into this and especially investing into 3D metal printing.
Speaker C:Yeah, I suffer a little bit from the shiny, you know, squirrel distraction, as I think a lot of business owners do.
Speaker C:And we're very much everybody that works for.
Speaker C:For Angstad Arms is a gun enthusiast.
Speaker C:So it's almost hard not to keep innovating.
Speaker C:At least that's, you know, from my standpoint, is we're always trying to elevate the shooting experience.
Speaker C:What would make it better.
Speaker C:And that's why we got into suppressors.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Anybody who's ever shot suppressed.
Speaker C:I mean, it's.
Speaker C:It's tough to go back, especially if you're shooting like suppressed 9 mil or suppressed 22, where it's really, really that kind of Hollywood quiet that you get there.
Speaker C:But I think in this industry, you kind of have to, or you're going to be forgotten.
Speaker C:And those trends, they take a longer time to turn and change, but when they do, it's not going back.
Speaker C:And so if you're sitting there kind of resting on your laurels and just have that one product that never improves over time, I just don't know how you're a sustainable company for the long term.
Speaker C:And really, that's what we're about is, you know, this isn't another company that I started and wanted to sell.
Speaker C:This is.
Speaker C:It's got my name on it and, you know, really, I didn't name it after myself.
Speaker C:It was kind of a testament to my grandfather who got me into it.
Speaker C:And so we just want to keep improving and putting out stuff that we want to shoot or that other shooters, when they shoot it, they're like, oh, it's an incredible experience.
Speaker B:I want to pick your brain about the industry because you came and I'm assuming just from what you were talking about, you were one of the first or the first to come out with Glock mag lowers, which was a huge trend that really swayed the industry.
Speaker B:Where do you find.
Speaker B:You've got 3D printing, so I know that's going to be part of this innovation.
Speaker B:But where do you find the next step in innovation for the firearms industry is.
Speaker B:I mean, no, we hear it all the time.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker B:You know, nobody's innovating or we're just putting lipstick on this peg or doing this or that.
Speaker B:Where is the next big step for not only the industry, but for Angstad?
Speaker C:Yeah, I think a lot of it is around suppressors.
Speaker C:So I'm sure many people Listening to this realize the last year and a half, two years, suppressor sales have been on a tear.
Speaker C:And that's really.
Speaker C:That was driven by faster approval times previously, it might take 12 months to get approved for your tax stamp.
Speaker C:And then all of a sudden it was one month and then it was two weeks and then it was a day.
Speaker C:And then, you know, we've had dealers tell us like 36 minutes they had a.
Speaker C:Had it approved.
Speaker C:And now, you know, on January 1st, that tax stamp is going to go away.
Speaker C:And so it's another psychological barrier that's been removed for suppressor ownership, which is huge.
Speaker C:So I think what you're going to see is more integration between the firearm and the suppressor, where it's not so much.
Speaker C:I bought a gun, it had a threaded barrel, I put a suppressor on it.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It could be going towards more integrally suppressed firearms, which, you know, we make several of those where it's.
Speaker C:When we design it, it's an integral part of that firearm and it just gives you a better experience where you don't have to tune it, you don't have to worry about it shooting different grain bullets or calibers or something.
Speaker C:Everything's going to work kind of out of the box for you.
Speaker C:And so I see that.
Speaker C:And then on the, as you mentioned on the 3D printed side, that just gives us incredible speed to market.
Speaker C:So there's times when we can come up with a new design, literally print it.
Speaker C:It's coming, it's titanium, but you print it and then your only lead time is the time to heat treat the metal and then you can be test firing it.
Speaker C:So oftentimes we're talking about under a week where we have a new idea for design and we can actually be on the range testing it.
Speaker C:And that in itself is just allowing us to maybe push even more boundaries to try new stuff.
Speaker C:Because it's not like me spinning up a whole manufacturing line and then having to produce a certain number of it.
Speaker C:I could literally make one or two to test it out.
Speaker B:So just jump into that a little bit.
Speaker B:You have the ability.
Speaker B:And I want to explain this for the audience because I don't want to sound dumb, but you have the ability to rapid prototype.
Speaker B:So you can have something in the past when you were prototyping, or you come up with an idea.
Speaker B:You're like, okay, this is my idea.
Speaker B:Three to four months down the line, thousands of dollars in R D, hundreds of thousands of dollars in R D. You're, you go and you're like, okay, Well, I. I think this is gonna work.
Speaker B:You spend all the money you get in there.
Speaker B:Doesn't work.
Speaker B:Go back to the R D. Go.
Speaker B:Now you can almost instantaneously print apart, have it there within a week and test.
Speaker B:And now you're.
Speaker B:Is it.
Speaker B:Is it more cost effective?
Speaker B:Is it getting you there quicker?
Speaker C:It definitely depends on what you're making.
Speaker C:So 3D printing.
Speaker C:And when I talk about 3D printing, we're not talking about polymers.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:That's been out for a while.
Speaker C:We're talking about actually, you know, laser sintering metal.
Speaker C:So this is.
Speaker C:When it's done, it's just as strong as if it was a machine metal part.
Speaker C:It depends on the design of it, what you're doing.
Speaker C:A lot of times, like suppressors make a lot of sense to 3D print because of the dimensions of them and the size.
Speaker C:You can fit a lot of suppressors on a tray.
Speaker C:It becomes very cost effective.
Speaker C:Almost as cost effective as machining a bunch of big baffles in a tube or welding them with other parts.
Speaker C:It's probably more expensive, but it goes back to your point of just rapid.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So there might be something where I'm never going to 3D print a bolt carrier, but I will when I'm testing it and prototyping, because again, I can get it very, very quickly.
Speaker C:And then oftentimes we just have to do a little bit of cleanup on the machine to get it kind of dialed in.
Speaker C:But, yeah, it just gives us that ability to really come up with stuff, test it, reiterate, and then go back for it.
Speaker B:Will that cut down on your production time or at least the.
Speaker B:The R D time?
Speaker B:So we're talking again, like I. I mentioned most in.
Speaker B:A lot of people who have never worked on the.
Speaker B:The manufacturing side don't understand.
Speaker B:They're like, well, I want it now.
Speaker B:It's an instant gratification.
Speaker B:Most of the time, a product can be in development for two to three.
Speaker C:Years before it even goes to market.
Speaker B:So would.
Speaker B:Does this cut the.
Speaker B:The R D time in half?
Speaker B:Does this give you the ability to go, okay, well, there's a new trend?
Speaker B:Let's just say, because it's a trend right now.
Speaker B:Ink Said decides they want to do a lever gun.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which I'm not going to put you to that, but let's just say like a trend pops up.
Speaker B:Let's say a new caliber.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker B:30 Super carry popped up or something like that.
Speaker B:That gives you the ability to just go, okay, well, I know I need this bolt dimension I need this barrel.
Speaker B:I can get a button or I can get the barrel prototyped in about six weeks.
Speaker B:I can have the bulk carrier ready.
Speaker B:I could have a working prototype in half the time that I would cost me previously.
Speaker C:So it definitely speeds up development process.
Speaker C:A big portion of R and D is testing and unfortunately that's something that you really can't rush.
Speaker C:And so you still are faced with if we're doing something completely out of the box, if we're just making a variation to a product, a lot of times we can do it and we're not really re engineering all the mechanics of it.
Speaker C:It's more of an aesthetic change.
Speaker C:That's something where we can do that very quickly and get it out.
Speaker C:So those product variations become a lot faster to market.
Speaker C:But still with the like a ground up new product still the bulk of that time is going to be testing and making sure that it's obviously it's got to be safe, it's got to be 100% reliable.
Speaker C:Every single thing that we want to tweak or change on it.
Speaker C:Now you kind of start over again and you're going through and doing the same number of tests on that.
Speaker C:So that still remains kind of the, the, the time that what really takes the most time in development.
Speaker B:So for the nerds out there who are listening to this, what are your testing standards?
Speaker B:If you don't, if you don't want to show them, you don't have to.
Speaker C:No, it's, it's fine.
Speaker C:A lot of times for what we're doing it, it's around the contract.
Speaker C:So we do a lot of firearm design development.
Speaker C:It might be tweaking one of our existing firearms.
Speaker C:And we look at, we've got mil spec standards that we're adhering to.
Speaker C:If there's anything published on it.
Speaker C:We do all of our own abuse testing in there, reliability testing.
Speaker C:But a lot of times the contract is going to dictate like accuracy.
Speaker C:And so, okay, we look at that, see what it is they're using.
Speaker C:This bullet, this grain weight, we're going to go ahead, put the gun on the ransom rest, we're going to shoot 20 guns, take all the averages, make sure that we're in there, everything's videotaped, everything's documented and then we're able to furnish that to the client.
Speaker C:But really it's, it's kind of driven.
Speaker B:From that end user as a generational thing.
Speaker B:This gunsmithing, this, this very American thing of, of the firearm and things like that.
Speaker B:What drives you, what in history or how does that history drive you?
Speaker B:Does that make you.
Speaker B:When you put out a product, you go, do you look back and go, well, my ancestors approve of this product.
Speaker B:Is.
Speaker B:Is this something that I can stamp their name on it?
Speaker C:You know, quality is something that we take very important, right?
Speaker C:So we want to make sure that everything we.
Speaker C:We put out is.
Speaker C:It's been test, thoroughly tested in there.
Speaker C:But firearms are challenging, right?
Speaker C:You can look at, you know, any of the last releases over the last five years, and you could probably point to a ton of companies that are much larger than us that had issues At.
Speaker C:At the heart of it, you're controlling an explosion, right?
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:It's difficult because people are putting different ammunition of it.
Speaker C:They've got different reloads.
Speaker C:They've got all this stuff that you're.
Speaker C:You're trying to tailor.
Speaker C:And so it does become challenging at the end of the day.
Speaker C:Again, I go back to us being enthusiasts, so we're putting out guns that we would all feel really comfortable shooting with.
Speaker C:We're excited to tell our families when we go home, hey, look at this.
Speaker C:I've got this, you know, prototype.
Speaker C:This is what I'm working on, and kind of judging their reaction.
Speaker C:And if we're not excited about it, then we don't go forward.
Speaker C:Some of the products that we design, development never see the light of day.
Speaker C:You know, we either run into a challenge and it might not be worth it, or the market might not be there, or we find a company that's better suited to bring it to market.
Speaker C:We've licensed some ideas to other companies.
Speaker C:We've also had people approach us with a.
Speaker C:They might have a patent on something and.
Speaker C:And we license that idea from them and put it out in the market.
Speaker C:It.
Speaker C:It really just comes back to, we want to put those guns out.
Speaker C:When people see them, they get excited.
Speaker C:They're not just going to be like, oh, that's cool.
Speaker C:It's another black ar, right?
Speaker C:It's something that I want to see that.
Speaker C:Let me hold it.
Speaker C:And then they have this visceral feeling when they put their hands on it and they start shooting it.
Speaker B:Has there been a product where you.
Speaker B:You've manufactured it and just been like, well, I got to do this because everybody else is doing it?
Speaker B:Or is it.
Speaker B:Has it been like, well, everybody else is doing it.
Speaker B:I have to do it.
Speaker B:I hate this.
Speaker B:We're not coming to market with this.
Speaker C:So after.
Speaker C:So during COVID times were crazy, right?
Speaker C:And then after Covid, you know, reality sets in.
Speaker C:There's this lull in the industry in sales.
Speaker C:We had been manufacturing billet AR15s for our international clients that basically we've developed a brand in their particular country and now we have a 556 offering for that market.
Speaker C:So we've done that.
Speaker C:But we never released it in the US because frankly it was a me too product.
Speaker C:It was a standard, a nice 775, you know, billet receiver.
Speaker C:But that's what it was, right.
Speaker C:And we ended up releasing that after Covid and it was, as you can imagine, a ho hum product because there was a million other choices.
Speaker C:And we ended up kind of shelving it after about two years because we weren't passionate about it.
Speaker C:It's not say it was a bad product, it ran fine, it looked really good, but there wasn't anything different.
Speaker C:It didn't feel like an Angstadt product.
Speaker C:So we, we really learn from that and we try now to carve out a lane and, and stick to it for a period of time.
Speaker C:And that's not to mean if something new comes up, we're not going to invest some time and effort, but really we want to focus and when people come to us, it's, it's typically in that PCC market or specialty suppressors like integrals or the 3D printed suppressors where they're looking for something very specific, where we're well differentiated in the marketplace.
Speaker A:So in your opinion, what breeds the best innovation?
Speaker A:Is it the military contracts and the, the specs that they're sending out that causes more innovation?
Speaker A:Or is it more of the individual gun owner, the private sector, that really kind of lights a fire in your creativity team and, and spurs that innovation?
Speaker C:Yeah, I'd say it's a little bit of both.
Speaker C:So obviously if a contract comes out, and typically when a contract comes out or there's a tender for like an international contract, you've kind of already seen the trend emerging.
Speaker C:And really what I like to do is kind of look at the, what I'd call hobbyists, but it's really builders.
Speaker C:What are people putting together?
Speaker C:You know, if you go on the forums or you're on social media, what are, what are people looking at and what are they trying to do there?
Speaker C:And it might just be some guy who's, you know, like an at home gunsmith who's kind of customizing something and then you're seeing interaction and also it's just kind of asking why, you know, why is this always like this?
Speaker C:So we, we developed a product that's not out yet.
Speaker C:It's basically an integrally suppressed 5, 5, 6 barrel.
Speaker C:And we approached it as why don't they sell well currently?
Speaker C:Because you can buy integrally suppressed upper and you look at it and you say, well they're very expensive because of the way it's built.
Speaker C:You have to buy every single part.
Speaker C:It's complete upper.
Speaker C:So you're at like $2,000 or $2,500.
Speaker C:And then we say, well why is that?
Speaker C:Well the suppressor's got to be pin and welded to the barrel, otherwise it'd be a short barrel.
Speaker C:And then you're dealing with that.
Speaker C:Okay, well why does it have to, could we have a 16 inch barrel and have the suppressor slide over it and then you only have to buy these two components.
Speaker C:And so we went down that kind of development process and it's really just looking at this was a case where something probably should have been more popular and it wasn't.
Speaker C:And then undercover, you know, uncovering why that is and then trying to improve upon that.
Speaker B:You brought up that the integrity suppressed stuff.
Speaker B:Have you ever just been laying in bed at night and just go I got an idea and then have to.
Speaker C:Write it down all the time.
Speaker C:It's, I would say the best ideas typically come when I'm walking the dog and I'm not listening to anything.
Speaker C:I'm just sitting there thinking about an idea or it'll.
Speaker C:Somebody else in the company comes up with something.
Speaker C:Hey, I thought about this the other day and it might have been something that we were working on three months ago.
Speaker C:And then they took that time away from it and then you know, you're subconsciously, your mind's still thinking about it.
Speaker C:So yeah, a lot of times that's when it, it really hitches those weird times when you're just sitting there quiet.
Speaker B:So my, my weird one was in the shower.
Speaker B:Ideas would pop up in the shower and then you're like, oh, I've got to write this down.
Speaker B:Nothing around.
Speaker A:But obviously we're, we, we understand that a lot of your products are all around the nfa.
Speaker A:We've talked about the tag stamp going to zero, but the fight is far from finished.
Speaker A:I know we have our one big beautiful lawsuit that is currently in preparation and going forward to hopefully officially gut the nfa.
Speaker A:What are the, the things that you think will open up from the consumer side once the unconstitutional hurdles of the NFA go away?
Speaker C:Yeah, and that's incredible work that GOA is doing on that because the NFA should not exist.
Speaker C:We can all agree on that it needs to go away.
Speaker C:I'm pretty bullish in thinking that will happen.
Speaker C:I don't know when I think you're going to see and this is one of the things where I wrestle.
Speaker C:So obviously suppressors, right, They've been doing really well selling.
Speaker C:If there's not that tax stamp, they're going to sell even better.
Speaker C:If you don't have to go through the additional hurdles of the nfa, they're going to sell even better and that becomes a normalized product that I think all gun owners are going to own multiple suppressors the same way that you own multiple firearms because they all serve a different purpose.
Speaker C:I think suppressors are going to do that.
Speaker C:Short barrel rifles is another one.
Speaker C:This is one that I don't know if I'm as bullish on it because pistol braces offer a really good alternative where if you want to shoot suppressed, there's not really an alternative.
Speaker C:It's not like you can get this magical ammo that's just quiet, right?
Speaker C:You need a suppressor.
Speaker C:I own several SBRs and, and I like having that and stuff.
Speaker C:So I'm really hopeful that it'll increase SBR sales, but I'm not sure if that trend is actually gonna take off as well as suppressors are.
Speaker B:I, I agree with you.
Speaker B:I mean the, the number of pistol brace firearms out there kind of makes the NFA void at this point.
Speaker B:There's no point.
Speaker B:It's common use.
Speaker B:But suppressors are the bigger thing.
Speaker B:I think that that has always been the barrier to entry with the suppressors.
Speaker B:There's always been the headache of the NFA paperwork and the tax stamp and all that stuff.
Speaker B:And it just.
Speaker B:As somebody who owns a lot of guns and owns no suppressors, it's, that's why it's just I didn't want to deal with all that stuff.
Speaker C:So I didn't know you were so uncivilized.
Speaker B:I am super.
Speaker B:Trust me.
Speaker B:Tarantino called me the other day and was calling me out on it.
Speaker B:I was like, dude, I'm sorry.
Speaker B:He goes, you know people.
Speaker C:So seriously, let me know who your FFL is and we will have something for you.
Speaker C:We can, we can solve this.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was funny because goals range day for, for our media folks.
Speaker B:We had a Barrett was there and car arms was there and Barrett had a suppressed 50 cal and Carms did not.
Speaker B:And the guys over at Barrett looked at me and look goes.
Speaker B:They are so uncivilized over there.
Speaker B:It was shaking the whole like you'd fight everyone, be like, oh, that's going off.
Speaker B:But it was just, it's, it is, it is funny how, how you go from, you go from shooting guns and for all these years and you're like, oh, shooting guns, great.
Speaker B:And then you shouldn't suppress and then everyone just, you don't shoot suppressed anymore and you're shooting and everyone's like, you're so uncivilized.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:And I mean, so I think this is a good part of us in the industry and GOA and consumers trying to shape the narrative around suppressors because I think people that are against them let Hollywood dictate it, right.
Speaker C:And they think that everything's going to be so magically quiet you're never going to be able to hear it.
Speaker C:And only bad people use suppressors.
Speaker C:Which we obviously know is, couldn't be further from the truth.
Speaker C:So I think it's, it's great that we're kind of taking over the narrative around it because once people realize that it's, I mean it's safety, you're damaging your ears every time you shoot a firearm.
Speaker C:And why wouldn't you want to lessen that?
Speaker C:It would be like if you went shooting and didn't want to put on ear protection.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:People look at you like you're crazy.
Speaker A:Yeah, well it's, it's always been one of those like cognitive dissonance when you see like OSHA has come out and said we support suppressor use.
Speaker A:Like they're great, two thumbs up.
Speaker A:And then on the flip side you have the ATF that's like absolutely not.
Speaker A:They're, they're horrible.
Speaker A:And it's like you're under the same government and yet the views are so, so wildly different and it's never made sense.
Speaker A:And you know, well, that's the government for you.
Speaker C:But yeah.
Speaker C:And you have other countries where you can't shoot a gun without a suppressor because of noise pollution solution.
Speaker B:It's, I mean everybody likes hearing a car engine, but did we have mufflers for a reason?
Speaker B:Just saying.
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Speaker A:So it is time for our next segment from the Soapbox, the time that we take a spicier look at the conversation.
Speaker A:So I'm going to open up the floor to our guest.
Speaker A:What is your hot takes going on in the industry and culture?
Speaker A:Whatever you want to address hot take.
Speaker C:Let's go back to suppressors a little bit right now because we all know beat it to death.
Speaker C: ,: Speaker C:That's incredible.
Speaker C:It's one step.
Speaker C:Hopefully NFA gets removed and that's the ultimate step.
Speaker C:But what we see right now and depending on when this airs, typically in the summer there's a slowdown because firearms industry, it's hard to compete with swimming pools and trips to Disney World.
Speaker C:I get it.
Speaker C:And then we kind of it ramps up in fall, in the holiday season.
Speaker C:A lot of people are sitting on the sidelines.
Speaker C:We see this when we talk to dealers and they're like, well I'm going to wait till January 1st because I want to save that 200.
Speaker C:And I agree with you, it's great.
Speaker C:You always want to save money where you can.
Speaker C:The problem and this is something that we see kind of in the industry is on January 1, if everybody else is going to buy a suppressor, one is that suppressor you want going to be available to.
Speaker C:If it is, what's going to happen to the approval times?
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Because we haven't talked about this at all because it still is on the nfa.
Speaker C:I mean they've been fast.
Speaker C:Are they going to continue to be fast?
Speaker C:Is that going to slow down?
Speaker C:Are you going to be able to get what you want and is the price going to go up because demand skyrockets again.
Speaker C:So yeah, maybe you save $200 on the tax stamp.
Speaker C:Maybe you end up spending $150 more on the suppressor because you couldn't get it at the price that it is Right now, you know, I think there's, as a consumer, I try to think of like a consumer and what they would think.
Speaker C:There's a lot of promotions going on with other manufacturers.
Speaker C:A lot of great companies are offering, you know, rebates now.
Speaker C:So you end up kind of saving the same thing.
Speaker C:And you could own that product now, enjoy it now, and not have to worry about that on January 1st.
Speaker C:Or there's dealers that are doing what they're calling like a layaway, Purchase the gun from them, they'll hold it and then you can go submit it, you know, next year and save yourself that the 200 tax stamp.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Well, I agree.
Speaker C:Saving money is amazing.
Speaker C:We always want to see.
Speaker C:Okay, is it really going to be available on January 1st?
Speaker B:Yeah, I've heard from other dealers about that and I applaud a lot of them who are holding it.
Speaker B:But again, you're absolutely right.
Speaker B:The supply and demand is going to go through the roof.
Speaker B:And if you're a dealer out there, recommend probably stocking up a little bit on, on the number of suppressors you, you have because it, we don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker B:Our, our brains are all predicting like boom, there's going to be this boom.
Speaker B:I'm hoping that there's this giant boom and everyone's like, yeah, I want a suppressor, which you should have because if you don't, you're, you're uncivilized.
Speaker A:So I, I do wonder, and this is, I don't know what the answer is and, and you guys could probably tell me like this is a dumb statement and it's one fine, I've made those before.
Speaker A:But I really wonder from the first time gun owner perspective that that's the, the group that like my heart is always focused on because how do we bring people into the movement that that's one of the core pieces of, of my life.
Speaker A:And so I wonder if we will see suppressors have that rentable ability because I can't tell you how many people that I say, okay, you want to go get, go purchase your first gun, go to a range that has guns to rent, try out multiple things, see what you like.
Speaker A:But I don't think we as an industry have really thought through the educational piece for first time gun owners, for new gun owners and how do we start building a normalcy around suppressors?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker A:Once the NFA is no longer a thing for.
Speaker B:Suppressors, I personally from, from working on both sides, on the manufacturing side and on the retail side of firearms, I think the Narrative of suppressors has changed a lot since I was behind the counter.
Speaker B:It was you.
Speaker B:And I don't know if you, you've gotten this probably as a manufacturer, but it's always been somebody to walk up to a show or something like that, or at an event or while you're standing behind the counter, it's like, well, I thought these were illegal.
Speaker B:And there's this.
Speaker B:And then you go through the NFA explanation.
Speaker B:No, they're not illegal, but they're a 200 stamp and this and that.
Speaker B:And then they get confused because why am I paying a tax on this?
Speaker B:And then you got to explain the whole NFA.
Speaker B:So abolish the NFA.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:But I think over the last 10 years, when even more to, towards the last 12 months, we've seen an education, an increase in education about suppressor ownership, about, I mean with the wait times going down and everything like that.
Speaker B:And I, we, I also think that the first time gun owner and we've touched on this before, a lot of them will, if, if they are semi cultured, I guess we can put it.
Speaker B:And by that I mean video game, they're gonna want their setups from the games and things like that.
Speaker B:So we'll start maybe seeing more of the, that transition over because now it's less of a, a hassle to, to get NFA items.
Speaker B:That is my roundabout away of answering that question.
Speaker C:That's, it's a really good question too because that is something about normalizing the culture around suppressors.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:That's something that internally we use that, that phrase normalize gun culture.
Speaker C:Because like the way that I grew up, guns are normal.
Speaker C:It's just an everyday part.
Speaker C:You might carry a gun, you could use it hunting, you could have fun with it, target practice.
Speaker C:But not everybody has that experience.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so how do we bring, as you said, more people into the fold?
Speaker C:You know, with, from a manufacturer standpoint, I can say, you know, just like you said, when you were at a range event, there was a gun there, one was suppressed, one was not.
Speaker C:So as manufacturers, what you're starting to see is a lot more manufacturers have suppressors on everything for those shoots where the public is going to it, which oftentimes is the first time somebody gets to shoot a bunch of different guns.
Speaker C:And if they go down the line, they see all these have suppressors on them, they're going to be like, oh, okay, well that seems pretty normal.
Speaker C:And you can ask the manufacturer questions about them.
Speaker C:You learn a little bit more.
Speaker C:The range rental program is great.
Speaker C:So we do, we've got programs with our dealers and our integrally expressed guns are there.
Speaker C:And it's a great kind of starter gun because the suppressor is going to cut down on, you know, that jarring experience.
Speaker C:If you're a new shooter and you're not used to it, it's going to cut down on some of the, the recoil in there and make it a much more, I guess, approachable first experience, which is really what you want.
Speaker C:Like when I think about both my, my children, when I got them into shooting, the first thing they shot was a suppressed.22, right?
Speaker C:And so for the longest time they had no idea that guns were loud.
Speaker C:And so they didn't develop any bad habits.
Speaker C:They don't flinch when they shoot.
Speaker C:And that was just an easy way versus the alternative.
Speaker C:You know, he could have handed my daughter a 9 mil pistol and said go at it, right?
Speaker C:And she probably would have hated it versus developing this love for it.
Speaker C:And now she can go on everything else and she doesn't have any bad habits and she's really open to suppressors and she'll even say, when somebody's out there shooting without a suppressor, why doesn't he have one on?
Speaker C:It's like, I don't know, honey, I.
Speaker B:Think, I think you hit the nail on her.
Speaker B:The normalization of suppressor use across not only range days, but also across the, the YouTube community and the, and the reviewers and everything like that.
Speaker B:Most of them are now shooting completely suppressed or almost completely suppressed.
Speaker B:I think that that is helping with everything and, and showing that.
Speaker B:I mean that the, the biggest issue previously with the nfa, if I'm not mistaken, Kaylee, you can correct me, is that the common use and suppressors are becoming more common use than previously.
Speaker B:Strike that, all that.
Speaker B:Okay, so I'm wrong.
Speaker B:I'm always wrong.
Speaker A:No, you're not always wrong.
Speaker A:But no, the problem with the nfa, yes.
Speaker A:And I think one of the things is the NFA tried to dictate gun culture and was successful in many ways for a long time.
Speaker A:The reason that the zero dollar tax stamp is so important and why we would absolutely have loved to see the correct language go through Congress as it should have.
Speaker A:It should have survived the bird rule or the bird bath as it got nicknamed because it was an unelected bureaucrat that derailed the whole constitutional way for us to get rid of it through Congress, which is insane to me.
Speaker A:And the fact that that person could have been fired by congressional leadership and was not, I think will go down in history as one of the dumber things that have happened.
Speaker A:But what it did do is give us the basis to SUE on the NFA.
Speaker A:So the $0 tax is an oxymoron in and of itself, right?
Speaker A:Well, the Supreme Court had held previously that the reason that the NFA was able to stand was because it was regulated under a tax.
Speaker A:So once the tax goes to zero, is it a tax bill?
Speaker A:And so those are the grounds that we're able to make this case because that was the only thing that allowed the NFA to stand originally when it was challenged.
Speaker A:And it's why I think so many of us are looking at the case law and are looking at the momentum that we have on our side right now and are looking forward to forward to this case getting decided is because this should be a no brainer, just like it should have been a no brainer for it to pass in Congress.
Speaker A:But when ignorance wins, when we have to go to the courts and that's what GOA was prepared to do, that's what we are doing.
Speaker A:And so it takes a lot of money to sue.
Speaker A:I hate to be that person that states the obvious.
Speaker A:So if you do want to see the NFA get gutted, if you want to see the freedoms be restored and that's when an offensive victory.
Speaker A:My goodness, words are so difficult.
Speaker A:You can donate to our big beautiful lawsuit at Gun Owners.
Speaker A:That is Gun Owners Foundation Org Calm Is it calm?
Speaker A:G O A is Org Go F.
Speaker B:Is com is Gun Owners.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:I have been working here for seven.
Speaker B:I didn't know that years.
Speaker B:You didn't say Des Moines.
Speaker B:She didn't say Des Moines two days ago.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:The port editors are going to be like okay,.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker A:You didn't seriously, you didn't know the gun.
Speaker A:Gun Owners foundation URL.
Speaker B:No, I don't.
Speaker C:I think it's only a matter of time and the NFA is repealed and but it doesn't like you're saying it's.
Speaker C:It's not easy all the work ahead of what you have to do ahead of that and what everybody listening can do by donating and help support that.
Speaker C:Because it's not just happenstance.
Speaker C:It's not just going to happen if we don't do anything.
Speaker C:So I think it's incredible.
Speaker C:I think the NFA days are numbered.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:I think we, we all win when the NFA and not only as a gun culture but as an industry, the, the opening up of so many new ideas and things so you don't have to do the workaround oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, think about how many cool things you could come up with without.
Speaker C:Having to worry about, oh, it's going to be incredible.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I think, you know, we talk about what you were saying is one of your company's ethos is, you know, normalizing gun culture.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You accept the level of tyranny that you have grown up with so often.
Speaker A:And I really think that it shows where our country is right now that there has been such a.
Speaker A:Such a revival of constitutional values that people are wanting to get involved, getting involved at their state level, at the federal level, to take back our freedoms that have been destroyed for many years.
Speaker A:The NFA came around in the 30s.
Speaker A:There are very few people alive that.
Speaker A:That saw that.
Speaker A:And so it's so important that, you know, this is part of our heritage.
Speaker A:This is part of what we have to celebrate and that we've allowed a groundswell to happen, that we have cultivated innovation despite challenges, and that we've seen suppressors get better and better and all of those things.
Speaker A:Sorry, I'll get on.
Speaker A:I'll get off my subclock.
Speaker A:So all of those things culminate to a point where we are actually able to win back.
Speaker A:And then think about, you know, our children and our grandkids will be able to enjoy a freedom because we.
Speaker A:We decided enough was enough and that we're going to take stuff back, you.
Speaker C:Know, for so long.
Speaker C:Just rights get eroded little by little, and you send.
Speaker C:You accept the tyranny that you're born with, and you do.
Speaker C:And I think if you look at, like, the last five, six years, a lot of the craziness that has happened where people all of a sudden started looking at different topics like, wait a minute, this doesn't make any sense.
Speaker C:And then to your point, they started standing up for their own rights.
Speaker C:Well, actually, I believe this, and I'm going to be a little bit more vocal about it.
Speaker C:And there's organizations that, you know, will support them and you can donate to them.
Speaker C:And so it is an incredible time where I really feel.
Speaker C:Feel we're in a better position to make changes and get back our rights that we're basically stripped.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker B:I couldn't have said it better any.
Speaker B:All right, so we're going to wrap up.
Speaker B:Before we wrap up, let me.
Speaker B:We've got our gift for our guest.
Speaker B:So you'll be receiving an awesome gift from Palmetto State Armory and aac Emma.
Speaker B:So, again, thank you, Palmetto State Armory and AAC Ammo for providing our gift for our guest.
Speaker B:Go ahead.
Speaker B:And shout out where people can find you.
Speaker B:Any closing thoughts, anything like that?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker C:So Angstat Arms on all the social channel channels.
Speaker C:Just search for that or angstad arms.com I'd also challenge you if you listen to this and you think it's kind of cool, go into your local gun store and ask about our products.
Speaker C:And if they don't have them, tell them about them.
Speaker C:Share this podcast with them.
Speaker C:But really go support that local community.
Speaker C:If you haven't shot a suppressor, do me a favor, go to the rental range, shoot a suppressor, ask somebody who's got one to take you shooting.
Speaker C:And yeah, just get more people into the fold by taking them shooting.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Well, thank you for listening to this week's episode of the State of the Second podcast.
Speaker A: reserve Your Ticket for Goals: Speaker A:You will not want to miss it.
Speaker A:We will have speaker announcements, exhibitor announcements, all of the stuff happening on our social channels, that is goalscon on all social media platforms.
Speaker A:And we'll see you in Des Moines.
Speaker B:See ya.
Speaker B:Bye Bye now.
