About this Episode: On this episode of The Backstory on Marketing, Guy interviews Jo Ann Herold, CMO, Strategic Advisor, Adjunct Marketing Professor, Amazon Bestselling Author, and speaker. They discuss her backstory on marketing, the role empathy plays in leadership, overcoming perfectionism, and the importance of community involvement to your career and personal life.

About Jo Ann Herold: Jo Ann is a purpose-driven executive and brings more than 25 years of marketing expertise for iconic brands. She served as the CMO for The Honey Baked Ham Company, LLC twice. Prior she was CMO for Interface, Inc., VP of Brand Marketing at Arby’s Restaurant Group, and owned her own marketing firm. Jo Ann has an MBA in International Business from Mercer University and an undergraduate degree from Mississippi State University. She is an adjunct professor at Mercer University and GSU. She was the recipient of Atlanta AMA’s Lifetime Achievement award and two AMY Awards from the American Marketing Association.

Links:

Amazon link for her book: ‘Living On A Smile: 16 Ways to Live a Big Life and Lead with Love’: https://www.amazon.com/Living-Smile-Ways-Live-Life-ebook/dp/B0B39MQXV3

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joannherold/

Instagram: @joannheroldp_lop

https://marketingmachine.prorelevant.com/

Sign up for ProRelevant Emails:

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Link to YouTube Video:

https://youtu.be/U388u1QhduM

Hi, I'm Guy Powell and welcome to the next episode

of the backstory on marketing. If you haven't already done so

please visit pro relevant.com and sign up for all of these

episodes and podcasts. I am the author of the newly released

book the post COVID marketing machine, prepare your team to

win. And you can find more information about the book at

marketing machine dot pro relevant.com. Today we're

speaking with Joanne Herold, author of a new book Living on a

smile. Joanne is a purpose driven executive and brings more

than 25 years of marketing expertise for iconic brands. She

has served as cmo for the HoneyBaked km HoneyBaked Ham

company twice. She was also cmo for interface VP of brand

marketing at Arby's, and own her own marketing firm. She has an

MBA in international business from Mercer University, and as

an undergraduate and has an undergraduate degree from

Mississippi State University. And she's also an adjunct

professor at Mercer University and at GSU. She was the

recipient of Atlanta ama is Lifetime Achievement Award, and

to Amy awards from the American Marketing Association here in

Atlanta. And lastly, she is now the author of living on a smile

16 ways to live a big life and lead with love. Welcome, Joanne.

Thank you Guy. Awesome to see you. I mean, we

have a lot in common with the AMA and all the marketing work

you do in the community, too.

Yeah, absolutely. And you have been on the AMA a

long time. And I know you've been on, we're on there also a

long time. And, and and it really is a great way to support

the marketing community here in Atlanta.

Yeah, thank you.

And I, I couldn't agree with you more. So well

with that. Then tell us a little bit about your backstory on how

you got into marketing.

Well, it's funny, I never imagined when I started

at McDonald's as a star. And what that means is I was the

store area representative, and wore the hamburger costume and

gave the birthday parties and worked the drive thru window,

that it would create a love for marketing. And what I learned

from that experience is that I love serving others, and that

food and iconic brands are a great way to do that. And so

through that, and it really was a marketing job.

Did my undergraduate and got a degree in PR communications and

journalism. And then just started my career in marketing

and really started at the bottom and worked my way up through the

ranks and have just loved my career in marketing.

Yeah, absolutely. And you while you certainly did

did very well going up in your career and up the ladder and cmo

and three different times and Arby's and McDonald's and but

most of all, though, I'm really proud that you were the

Hamburglar that that's definitely something to be proud

of.

Yes, it is. It is. I'll have to one of these

days try and find those old photos.

You know, that's definitely something you got to

put on Instagram. Can you recognize this person?

It was, I think I got to wear it because the

costume was a small size. I got to run around and greet people

in

the costume. Yeah, exactly. Well, and I'm kind of

tall is as you know, and I used to do some amateur acting and

what really upset me was I never got cast as a small part in a

small part where I was like short character rather. Anyways,

so So you've now left HoneyBaked Tam, and you've started a

consulting company. Tell us about that.

Yeah, that's been a lot of fun. I've done some

work with Georgia State University and love them and

heading with a professor, the Georgia State marketing

roundtable. That's a great group of chief marketing officers from

around town and doing just a lot of different fun projects with

clients all say so I'm really enjoying the consulting work and

advising others and leveraging the marketing experience for

other brands.

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, one of the things

with a background like yours is you have, you know, a wealth of

hands on experience and work and of course, working yourself up

the ranks and things like that. So being able to share that and

also see the results of your efforts across a handful of

brands is is a lot of fun. I'm sure.

It is. It is. And I'm doing a lot of work also in

the purpose and sustainability area. So excited about that as

well.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's definitely one of the

certainly the hot hot topics here and in marketing, you know,

sustainability, but also, you know, diversity, equity and

inclusion and things like that. So that's a great place to be.

That's for sure.

Absolutely.

Thank you. Yeah. So now you just recently left

Honeybaked Ham. So what do you what were some of your biggest

challenges there?

Well, honeybaked ham is an awesome brand awesome

company, doing really well, the consumers love it. The brand did

a great job during COVID As far as leveraging technology to

serve the customer. And that would be through, buy online,

pick up in store, curbside did a lot of work on the technology

side to make it easy for consumers to shop. And, of

course, it's a beloved brand and delicious. So. So we, you know,

overcame a lot of challenges during that time and continue

the brand continues to do really well.

Yeah, we always have the challenge. We'd like to have

a turkey for Christmas, and or a ham for Christmas. And it's kind

of like, Okay, do we do the HoneyBaked this year? Or? Or do

we do the turkey? So yeah, the HoneyBaked is for Christmas is

just awesome.

Yeah, they it's also great during everyday,

they've got great meals and great solutions.

Yeah, and I would imagine that as well. You know,

and certainly with the stores and even year round, you can

certainly get and purchase a ham, but at the at the end of

the year for Christmas, or potentially even Thanksgiving,

that has to provide some enormous challenges just to make

sure you can meet that demand and stuff like that. I'm always

impressed with how how well companies like yours do in that

case?

Yeah, a lot of planning a lot of cross

functional work goes into making it, you know, supplying the

demand?

Yep, yep. Absolutely. So as a marketing

leader, then what do you see as the most important aspects of a

leader that you've been using and learning and improving on

over the last years? And, and then also, now that some of

those are in your book? I'm sure. So what are the what are

some of those qualities that you'd like to maybe discuss?

Oh well I think leadership, it's important to

know, the team and have a relationship and understand

where everybody is communications, obviously, also

a key and for the team to really understand the whys. And you

know, what's going on? Why are we going in this direction. So

that's very important. Engagement and keeping everybody

involved? I've started and I, just through the years lead with

love, and to, you know, work is really hard and leadership is,

is hard. And so it's to lead with empathy and kindness and,

but also, knowing that, you know, we're there to drive

results and performance and so coming alongside the team and

making sure that everybody understands what we're trying to

do and why is critically important.

Yeah, and I think you're right and and and from

your book as well. I really liked how you you know, you

mentioned empathy with with everybody that's on the team and

those could be your employees as well as potentially even the

agencies that you're working with. But also then to not only

for yourself, but for the team is be part purposeful about your

work life balance, because, and I'm guilty of this sometimes,

you know, you just, you got a lot going on and as a solo, well

as an entrepreneur, you, you know, you just you take the time

and, and some things just take a lot of time and unfortunately

sometimes that it's that work life balance doesn't come out

quite right.

Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree, I think it's important to

prioritize, and to make sure the, you're looking at the big

rocks and the big rocks can be family and help them as well as

all the work and just making sure that all those big rocks

are prioritized. And I am very purposeful about time and time

management. And every day, make sure that the days and the time

is focused on what's most important, and whether that's

getting a big project done, or working, you know, exercise or

family.

Yeah, absolutely. And I like your, you know,

setting aside time for certainly for family, and then setting

aside obviously time for your priorities. But also, you had a

lot in there about, you know, planning your time. And I think

that's also a challenge. And you know, making sure that you have,

you know, whatever it is a three year goal, and then a one year

goal to help to get to the three year goal. And then what am I

doing today? And what are some of the challenges that are going

to hinder me from getting there? I really liked what you talked

about on that.

Oh, thank you. I've used I used to use Covey.

And now I use what's called a full focus planner. And it helps

map out overall goals. And then daily goals, weekly goals,

monthly goals. And so it's a for me, it's been a great tool book.

Yeah, yeah. And you can see it I mean, obviously,

through your career and what you've been able to achieve.

That's fantastic. I'd like to, I like one thing that you had as

well. And I, and maybe you could expound on that. It's the

thinking in 3d, I thought that concept was pretty interesting.

So this, that concept came from my boss at

interface, who was the CEO, and he liked people who could think

not only verbally, but also think ahead and visualize and

take an idea and really bring it to life. And so he's the one

that coined that, that term, and but I've adopted it from him and

used it.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I thought that made so

much sense. Because sometimes, and it's so easy to get focused

on whatever that immediate urgent thing is, and then

realizing that the urgent thing may not be the most important

thing. And then number one, and then number two is, you know,

what are kind of the, the long term consequences of what it is

that you're working on today. And I it's easy for all of us to

get to lose sight of that.

So true.

Yeah, yeah. So I like your, your idea of, of

planning. And I think that just makes so much sense, I do

something similar to that maybe not as rigorous. But it really

does help to make sure that you get, you know, a little bit of

work life balance in there. I'm not probably as good as I am or

should be. But nevertheless, I do like your point about the

planning.

What do you What tool do you use? Well,

I have a, I do a weekly, a monthly and a 90 day,

I don't go past 90 days, but I do a weekly, weekly, monthly in

90 days. And I mean, obviously, the 90 days is kind of also

includes some long term stuff in there, but you know, it, it's so

easy to see how those things get can get lost in the sauce. And

if I don't put it in specifically into one of those

buckets, then it does get lost in the sauce. And so that's kind

of what I do. I don't use the the Franklin Covey or the or the

other method that you're talking about. But for me, that seems to

work out pretty good. And then of course, there's a daily I

mean, I've got a daily planner that I you know, every day I'm

writing stuff down and then you know, and then review it. And so

maybe that's why I don't have as good a work life balance as you

do. Yeah,

I don't think I don't think there's ever any

perfect balance though. Sometimes work is out of balance

or life is out of balance. And so I don't think there's anybody

or any Your time was absolutely perfectly balanced.

Yeah, yeah. And then I think you're probably right.

And sometimes you got to take a little more, and then sometimes,

you know, I just, you got to just have a day off. And, and,

but you got to plan that in, you have to plan that in, especially

when you're in leadership, because everybody else is kind

of depending upon you. And if you're out for that day, they

gotta, you know, know how to how to depend on you without you

being on being there. So. Yeah, absolutely. So I also liked the

imposter syndrome, and the challenges or the problems that

that can cause. Tell us a little bit about that.

So that is, and I think a lot of people have that

even actors and actresses, and great performers have it. And so

much of it is believing and being confident knowing that you

can do something. And then also, sometimes it's a fake it until

you make it and just, you know, going out there and doing

something and being being confident and believing in it.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it and I think I have that

once in a while. And I don't know, you know, obviously, you

know, I've been doing my stuff for a long time you have as

well, and you would think that we would be 100% Confident in

anything, you know, that's related to what we know. And

yet, you know, every once in a while you just, you know, you're

just not, it's not confidence, maybe, but you're just not, you

know, you're a little reticent to kind of blow your own horn.

And we're, you know, and that's, that's, I think, what, what

really hit home with me when you were expounding on on that when

I was reading about that in your book?

Oh, yeah. It's so true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So now, I also liked that you are a recovering

perfectionist.

Yeah, it's what I used to do. And I probably still

do it a little bit, I would try to wait until everything was

perfect to share some of the work and what I've learned over

time is now I share early often get people involved, because I

think it makes a better work product. And then, you know,

everybody's really engaged versus trying to, you know, have

everything designed, and all the i's dotted and T's crossed. So,

so that's something that, you know, just, I've learned and,

and I think that's hard, I think for, especially

for a younger marketer, I think that's, that's really hard. I

know. Um, and I'm definitely a recovering perfectionist. And

it's really only been in the last couple of years that I more

willing to share earlier on, because I'd like to get, you

know, things, you know, as far along as he can, and then share

it as opposed to kind of getting them, you know, 80% and sharing

it and getting feedback on the 80%. And then also direction on

the 20. And, and so I will admit that that really hit home for

me.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

So how do you how do you import that into, you know,

you're, you're the, you're the folks that are working for you,

the you,

I guess that goes back to leading with love. And

so realizing that when somebody comes to me with a work product,

it's, you know, it may not be all the way perfect or baked or

whatever term that is, and so it gives me the chance to work with

them and, you know, to help craft, whatever the assignment

is, and to teach and to mentor and to be a part of it.

Yeah, yeah. And I, I found that and I don't know if

it's an I call them kids, they're not kids, but folks

coming out of college recent graduates, sometimes they're and

this may also be in terms of the imposter syndrome, the two kind

of CO together is they don't often have the confidence to ask

the questions early on. And what I've found is that if I don't

check in with them very often, then they'll go off on a tangent

and not that it's necessarily wrong, but it isn't the

priority. And you know, then you know, you wasted all that time

not only their time, but calendar time and you gotta you

know, get them back real and back into where you want them to

go and, and also do that without, you know, Uh, you know,

telling them they're wrong. And you know, you got to do it in a

positive way. So I don't know, if you've seen things like that,

as well,

I do, I think the but check ins, the, you know,

let's keeping things on the calendar too. And, you know,

let's just see where we are and check in and it gives them,

again, an opportunity to really understand the project to

understand the kind of the whys in the house behind it. And then

keeps, you know, keeps the project on task.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's, that's a good way

to put it as that is to make sure to reiterate the goal and

what we're trying to achieve and how we're trying to achieve it.

And, you know, what I found too, is that the younger folks, as

much as you'd like them, like to think that they have the same

knowledge that that you have, they don't, and they don't have

the context necessarily. And so, you know, you have to kind of

communicate that context. And, and I, and sometimes, you know,

you think you may overdo it, but that learning part of that

communicating with that context I found to be to be very

valuable.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. So, so did you have all of your teams then

also, do your planning routine? Or did you do something

different for them?

I mentored a lot of people and, and quite a few

folks on the team started to leverage the planning system.

And so you know, that, to me is a, it's a more personal, you

know, some are actually digital, and everything's done that way.

I've haven't, I'm a, I guess, a hybrid of write things down on

paper, and then, you know, a digital calendar. So it depends.

But I got the concept from ours at honey bag, the chief

operating officer used it and so he's the one that shared it with

me. And then I shared it with many on my team. And they, they

did use it.

Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. I liked as well, one

thing in your book, which was successful, people are not

gifted, they just work hard and succeed on purpose. that I

thought was a great quote, I haven't, I think you have a

reference from GK Nielsen. And, and I really thought about that

quite a bit. And, and I think the purpose piece fits in with

with your, almost your total message from your book. So tell

us how that's kind of affected your activities and your

planning?

Yeah, so in marketing, so much of and

leadership, so much of it is results and driving results. And

so there's a lot of hard work that goes into that. And so

it's, it's really being smart about whatever it is, you're

trying to achieve, really understanding who's on the other

end, who the consumer is, who will buy, what you're trying to

market to engage the teams, and whether it's the internal teams,

the agency partners are the cross functional partners.

There's a lot of work and communication and selling in as

far as that goes. So I know, in my career, there wasn't any,

anything I was successful with that didn't involve other

people. And so more work at Arby's or HoneyBaked, or

interface, especially Arby's and honeybaked ham, the products and

promotions had to be executed at the store level or field level.

So it was real important to get engagement all the way through

the process. So you know, a lot of hard work and learning how

best to make sure that the programs were easily executed

and easily understood.

Well, and a lot of communication, you brought that

up early on and you know when you have a plan that especially

if you're so as I recall you were the star in was that just

Atlanta or is that the southeast or?

That was in Oceanside? rings, Mississippi.

So I worked for I worked for a franchisee at McDonald's and,

and they had several McDonald's locations.

Yeah, well, in getting whatever that whatever

that activity is communicated throughout that organization is,

it's hard, it is very hard, especially when they're spread

out like that. And, and, you know, you have a goal and and

then getting buy in and realizing that, you know, people

have their own priorities and personal priorities as well as

work priorities. I kudos to you in terms of how you've been able

to do that.

Thank you. It's relationships are key.

Yeah, yeah. How true how true. So you received the,

from the Atlanta ama the Lifetime Achievement Award,

which is no small thing. That's an enormous thing. And so how

has that impacted your career?

I would say I was so incredibly honored by that.

And I was the AMA president and 2011 2012. And started in the

AMA, just as I right out of college, and would go to the

meetings and loved the AMA. And so it was just an amazing gift

from an organization that I'm so so proud to represent. So I

don't know that it's really changed anything, as much as it

was just, I was so in awe of it, and so grateful for it. And I

still am very involved in the AMA i co lead the Executive

Advisory Board with Jeff hella Meyer, and it's just a fantastic

group, who are committed to helping other marketers.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think, you know, the

AMA has done quite a bit around town. And there's just a lot of

value. We it affects 1000s, of marketers in the Atlanta area.

And then AMA, you know, on a national basis, or even an

international basis has a huge footprint as well.

It does, it does, and it needs marketers wherever

they are in their career. So whether it's a collegiate,

there's chapters on college campuses to up and coming

marketers, to professors who have their PhD, it's, it's

involves all levels of practitioners and academics.

Yeah, yeah. So what was the most fun thing you did

with the AMA?

Oh, gosh, well, a couple of fun things. We had the

I love ama campaign. And that was a lot of fun and engaging.

And in when you say AMA, everybody says, Oh, I love the

AMA. So we had a big campaign around that. The second thing

that I loved is we were very competitive. And I think we

still are with Houston. And so our whole goal was to beat

Houston. And so to be the third largest chapter nationwide, and

we were able to beat Houston. So we really celebrated that. I

think the third thing is, we would have the Amy's at the Fox,

and the Egyptian room. And so it was just, and we still have the

amas and it's just great to see everybody in a room and

celebrate the best marketers and advertisers in Atlanta and just

a super fun.

Yeah. Yeah, it sure is. And, yeah, I remember being

at the doing the event at the Fox, and yeah, that room down

there. And then just the energy, when the the before the awards

were given out, we were in that Egyptian room and, and the

energy's just, it's just incredible, and then being able

to see, you know, marketers both on the agency side and the

corporate side and, and then to see what they've done and the

creativity that has gone into their work and really how not

only, you know, helps the company but can inspire people

to do things that they might not otherwise do. Absolutely. And

that's that's what I like about the AMA. Now, one of the things

that that I'm involved in with the AMA as well as the

mentorship program and and I find not to be, you know,

incredibly valuable and and it teaches me as well. You know how

to work with junior marketers or first, you know, early marketers

in their career. Were you involved in the mentorship

program?

I was as a matter of fact, you had recently as a

guest, one of my mentees, who is Teresa Cairo? Yes. And we

started that program over 20 years ago. And she's one of my

very dearest friends as a result of that, and has she's just a

rock star and president of the Johnson group and so proud of

her and but now, what I do is, I mentor the president and the

president a lot if they would like to do that just because of

the long standing experience with the AMA.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, Teresa. I've

actually known her as well, maybe even from about the same

time as you. My first book is this one right here. And she was

one of my early editors. It's called return on marketing

investment. And she read it and she, she provided such great,

great input on. Yeah, definitely love Teresa. She's fantastic.

She is.

Yeah. So anything else you'd like to talk about?

About your new book?

Super excited about it. It launched this week.

I'd like to give a big shout out to the ripples team, Jeff,

hello, Meyer and Michelle. And Andrew over it ripples. And it.

It's doing really well. It's, it's already an Amazon

bestseller. And I wasn't expecting that I wrote the book

more it was a goal that I had and wanted to celebrate friends

and families and colleagues along the way. So the bet it's

selling well is just a lucky strike dry, I guess are a fun

part of it. But

well, no as as a successful marketer than you

know, marketing a book or marketing ham there. You know,

there's certain concepts that go together there. Yeah, that's

fantastic. Yeah, being Amazon. Number one best seller. That's a

that's a big deal. Congratulations on that.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. It's actually the it

was the number one new release.

Oh, nice. Very nice. Yeah, I was. As I was reading

through it, I really liked you know, the personal stories and

the business stories, and then how you brought everything

together, I think he really did a great job on that. And it's a,

it's, it's something that can be read, you know, and, and there's

a lot of different points that you have to jot down because

they're, they're just so valuable to, to how you manage

your manage and plan your, your career and also your your work

life balance.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Well, for my fellow

author, I appreciate that. I know. I know, you know what,

writing the books actually the easiest part? The editing and

launching and publishing and marketing is a whole other.

Yeah, exactly. That is, that is so true. And it's

funny, I liked what you you said, you know, it's better to

start getting feedback when you might be, let's say, 80% done or

get feedback along the way. And, and my latest book, The Post

COVID marketing machine, I did exactly that, and getting

feedback on LinkedIn, and getting feedback from my

interviewees and things like that. It really made it made a

whole lot of difference in the quality of the content. And then

now also that all those relationships are also part of

the marketing, so Mm hmm. Yeah. So what do you see in your

future? The more books then or we're all?

Well see, I'm talking. The next book will be a

hardcore marketing book. And so so much of marketing is it

happens on the job. And I wish I had a tool or a book that laid

it all out and say, so I'm kind of noodling that one.

Yeah, yeah. I know exactly what you mean. I, I

teach just like you do. I've taught over at Emory and then up

in the University of North Carolina, Charlotte, and couple

and I've taught a ton over in Asia just as a you know, as a

paid, you know, seminar provider. And one of the things

that I think the marketing curriculum get wrong, is they Do

not start with the question how to consumers make purchase

decisions, they start with the tools, here's how you do

research, here's how you do this, here's how you do that,

here's pricing and stuff, but they don't talk about how they

the consumer makes purchase decisions. And, and if you start

with that, then everything else flows. And, and, and anyway,

that's one of the things that I've learned. And I certainly

have put it into all my books and stuff like that. And is

there one thing that you have learned that you think would fit

into, you know, into your marketing, and your marketing

recommendations, and then now this hardcore marketing book

like that?

Well, I'm thinking through it, no, of the

consumer landscape has changed so much, and there is no other

function that's under siege as much as marketing. And the

expectations of the business is that, you know, the marketer

really understands what's going on as far as the changing

landscape can drive, change and lead teams in order to meet

customers where they are. So that's a piece of it that I

really want to unpack. And, you know, there's a lot of new

marketing as far as the metaverse that, you know,

marketers are learning and understanding, but then how does

that all fit together? And how, to your point, what, what are

these things that the marketer has in their toolbox that will

encourage the customer to buy?

Right, right, right. And to your point, you know,

with the landscape changing so much, I have. I don't know, I

don't know if it was surprised or whatever. But how well Tik

Tok is done. Oh, talk and it is, it's it's an It's mind boggling?

Well, it is people think it's a platform for

younger kids. It's, I think their average age is around 36.

And it's I mean, it's just a huge population of users. And

this is so entertaining and fun and simple and easy to use. I

have a fellow marketer, Who is he and I did not know this. He

told me a couple of days ago, he said, Did you know I'm a tick

tock star? And I said, No, um, his name is David Gerson. And he

works for TK elevators. And so he's, he and I worked together

interface, but he refs on the side. So he's a soccer referee.

And he's got all these funny videos, and they just went

viral. And so he's, people now recognize them. When he's

traveling, they're like, Oh, you're the reps, you need love

to die. And so it's just a super fun platform.

It is. I'm just now getting into it. And the thing

is, for me, though, it I can't watch it. I got to limit my

time. I gotta put in my time, five minutes, that's all you

get, you know, and I'm flipping through and, and some of them

are, you know, you're right. Some of them are so creative.

But yet for business, a friend of mine, he's put out, I don't

know, maybe 5075 tiktoks. And he has one, and these are on

leadership on business leadership. And he does target

though, a younger audience. So if you're like, early in your

career, then what are some of the things to help you to

advance your career and then be a leader in your career? And I

was on the phone with him for about an hour, I don't know,

maybe two weeks ago? And he says, Yeah, I've got one that's,

you know, it's got 500,000 views so far. And and and then while

we were talking, he got like, another 200 views. It was just

incredible. And, and that kind of that kind of engagement. And

that kind of following can really make a difference for a

brand if you can figure out how to use it. And that one, I think

is definitely one of those things. It's, you know,

sideswiping sideswiping, Facebook, and other other

platforms. And, and then I think you're right, the metaverse is

still in its infant stages. There's a lot there yet, and I

don't know if you've had any, any thoughts on where that or

how that could be used?

You know, it's it's absolutely something I'm

watching closely and learning about and I mentioned the

Georgia State marketing roundtable. We've got somebody

coming in from Google to talk to us more about it. I know some

clients ants are using it. And even the Atlanta Convention and

Visitors Bureau is testing out. And it makes a lot of sense if

you've got a space and you want to capture visitors or consumers

attention. So yeah, I I'm excited to continue to learn and

work with it.

Yeah, absolutely. And I'm interested in seeing

some good case studies on it. I there's been a couple out there

so far. And, and even here in Atlanta, there was a case study

on I think it was Oshkosh, they did something internet averse.

And, and so I'm looking forward to seeing more and seeing how

that can can really work out. So anything else you'd like to

bring up? Or bring up about your book? Or?

Well, you can go on Amazon, and look for living

on a smile. It's there. And for anybody listening who buys it,

let me know. And I would love to catch up and hear your thoughts

on it. So just very excited about it.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's really, it's, it's a

great read. I'm about halfway through right now. And, and I

will admit, I've written down probably a half a page, maybe

three quarters of a page of little notes and stuff like

that. So and that's, that's for me. And when I read a book,

that's exactly what I want to get out of it. And yours

definitely delivered.

Oh, thank you. Well, one part of after each

chapter, I have a field guide or a toolkit to for the reader to

write their purpose statement or elevator speech or strengths.

And so I really wanted it to be a guidebook and useful and for

the reader to have the pause and to be able to take some of the

learnings that I've shared from others and use it for

themselves.

Yeah, absolutely no question that that, that you can

do that. And it is very well structured for that. So well,

Joanne, thank you so much. I'm so glad we were able to talk and

thanks to you for participating in my podcast and hopefully this

and in our audience will purchase your book and, and

learn more about what you've been doing and how you

structured a lot of your leadership and your life is so

that you can do better things and do more things. So thank you

so much. Thank you so much, God. Yeah, absolutely. And also to

find her book. Again, it can be found on Amazon, and it's living

with a smile. And you can look that up really easy to find and

for everybody please do that. Otherwise, stay tuned for more

videos on my series of the backstory on marketing. And if

you get a chance, please rank my these podcasts with five stores.

Joanne, thank you so much. Thank you