It was a classic Luke/Erin messaround as they talked about two political, pro-business newsletters and the stories they spawned this week + Congressman Michael Baumgartner's Town Hall.

Hey, it's Aaron.

2

This week on the pod, Luke and

other Aaron talk about a pair of pro

3

business cranks, as they refer to

them, and a congressman who lots of

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eastern Washingtonians are mad at.

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This is Free Range, a co

production of KYRS and Range Media.

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I'm Luke Baumgarten, your host, and we

got an old school free range lineup today.

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team members, no guests, just that

raw, uncut Sellers and Baumgarten you

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remember from the very first time we

talked and a couple times after that.

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It's been a wild week,

Aaron starting with Gonzaga.

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Blowing out so far their

first round opponent 56 to 34.

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Would anybody that is listening to this?

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I actually, is it even a legal,

is it legal to talk about sports

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on a community radio station?

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I don't know, but we're doing it anyways.

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We're only going to do this once.

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Luke and I are both Gonzaga graduates

and I am not a sports baller, but for

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one month, a year, I pay attention.

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And I'm not.

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I'm a lapsed sports fan, except I

still do follow college basketball,

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because it's my favorite.

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In addition to that it's been

wild in other ways this week.

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Our free range week runs Friday to

Thursday, since we're, here on Thursday.

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So, the wild week started last

Friday when we published a story.

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For a segment we're entitling Good

Cop, Bad Cop, it has been a bad week

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to run an email newsletter in Spokane.

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Or I guess, I don't know, maybe an

okay week in the no or all news is good

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news or no publicity is bad publicity

sense, because I think a lot more

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people probably know about these two

particular newsletters than used to.

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But a couple big stories came out, one

from us and one from the spokesman,

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on two different email lists.

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that are politically motivated

or politically driven, one by

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an actual organization and one

just by a cranky older person.

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A crank, I think, is the

respectful way to refer to him.

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That's true.

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I should have just, yeah, said crank,

not I should have dropped the Y there.

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First, on Friday, though, was your story.

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We put out called the 5 a.

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m.

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Crisis Walks Will Continue

Until Conditions Improve.

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I have to say both these stories also had

some multiple layers of literary allusion

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in the headlines and in other places.

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So I'm pretty proud of both us

and the spokesman here, but It

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was a snappy headline and one that

we came up with literally at the

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very last minute as we were about

to run an extremely dry headline.

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And I was like, Val, would this work?

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And she was like, let me ask Luke.

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Yeah, it's a, you don't want to be

disrespectful or flippant, but you

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also want to hook people in, so you

gotta, you gotta think about it.

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It's a tough line to walk.

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Yep, absolutely.

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So you went out on one of these 5 a.

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m.

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walks with a photographer

friend of ours named Ben Tobin.

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You want to talk about that?

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Yeah, so every morning at 5 a.

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m.

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Since mid February Gavin Cooley who

Previously was the director of the

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Spokane Business Association and is

now I want to say it's director of

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strategic initiatives They're like

manager of strategic initiatives.

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He had a title change in the middle

of me reporting this story But he's

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an employee of the Spokane Business

Association and alongside his staff

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service provider, Barry Barfield.

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These two guys lead a

walk every morning at 5 a.

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m.,

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takes off from City Hall, and they

walk for about a mile downtown.

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And, I had a couple of preconceived

notions going into this.

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One of them being, Oh my God,

do I have to get up at 4 a.

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m.

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for work?

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I'm a little miserable.

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But we got on this walk and.

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It's always tricky as a reporter, how

much of my own feelings I need to include.

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But part of the reason I went on this

walk was to get like a first person

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experience of what it was, as opposed

to just hearing from other people who

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went on the walk, what it was like.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And from my perspective, it

felt a little bit like a safari.

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You've got this kind of group

of concerned business owners.

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who aren't usually in this part

of town at this time of day.

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So in that sense, it's also

reminds me of a safari.

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Yeah, and they get together and they

kind of speed walk around downtown and

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they don't have a set route necessarily.

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They told me they try to

walk through Riverfront Park.

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And they try to walk under at least one

of the viaducts, and they try to walk

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in front of the Riddpath Apartments.

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But the exact route that takes them

from those three things can change

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depending on the day, depending

on the people who are there.

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They have tended to start

and end at City Hall.

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Yes.

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With the exception of

one morning, I think.

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And so I show up, and they're I think,

because media's there, they're Keyed

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maybe a little bit differently, but Gavin

gives this speech about the point of

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the walks and why everybody's here and,

how it's sparking discussion and and

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then they, they go out on this walk and,

we walk for 37 minutes, we go through

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Riverfront Park first, we didn't see a

single unhoused person in the park and

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the whole time the group is expressing

Frustration about the politics of what

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they call the problem or the crisis and

what they're talking about is And again,

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these are their words visible homelessness

in downtown spokane that phrase rankles

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me a little bit just because I think

framing it as the problem or visible

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homelessness Dehumanizes people in a way.

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I like it because it really accurately

portrays what they're like There

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were 7, 000 people in Spokane that

accessed homelessness last year.

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Homelessness services.

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They are by their own yeah.

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Homelessness services, sorry.

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They also may have accessed

homelessness, but not in a good way.

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They, this group, which again, Spokane

Business Alliance, What do they do?

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Association.

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I guess what I'm saying is, it's,

it's, they're, it's a vague term and

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it is a collection of business leaders,

generally speaking, but they're a one

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issue organization and it is visible

homelessness in downtown Spokane, right?

112

Yeah.

113

Gavin was telling me that he hopes

that one day they get to move on to

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a different strategic initiative.

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But right now the initiative is, the

goal of these walks, in their words,

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is that one morning they'll go out

for a walk and they won't see a single

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homeless person, and that will be because

the city and the county have gotten

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together and addressed the problem.

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in a collaborative way.

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And again, these are their words.

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And, and so we're, we're moving

along, we're walking really quickly.

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I honestly got a pretty bad blister from

this because I had a hole in my sock that

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I didn't realize I had until we go out on

this 5am walk, which also made me cranky.

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I've been meaning to have us have

a sit down about sensible shoes

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for walking reporting trips, but.

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And, they're, they're back and forth

about there's a discussion around wording

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and language, like how when they use

the phrase zero tolerance for visible

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homelessness downtown, that turns liberals

off, it makes, maybe it makes people

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feel like, They're dehumanizing people.

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But the flip side of that coin is

that Barfield has who is a service

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provider, has coined this phrase I

refuse to abandon a single one of our

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unhoused neighbors to the streets.

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And so that's the

complexity of these things.

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But we, we're walking really quickly

and then we finally, 37 minutes in, we

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hit one of the viaducts and we see some

unhoused people and typically when this

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happens because I've had a couple of

friends who have gone on these walks,

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other reporters, and also a city staffer

who's gone six times who gave me some

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information about what the different,

what they've looked like every morning.

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Right.

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This morning was different.

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That same city staffer who works on

homelessness for Spokane was there.

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She Nicolette Oakletree.

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Yeah, we quote her in the story.

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Yeah.

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was frustrated by her past experiences

on the walk, feeling the same way I did,

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of okay, these people meet, they walk

really fast, they don't make eye contact,

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they're not really adding anything of

value to these unhoused people's lives,

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and the whole time they're walking,

they're talking about these people

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who are sleeping under the bridge,

having probably a pretty rough morning.

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Yeah.

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bunch of wealthier people bundled up

in their expensive sportswear, like

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trundling past really quickly, not

making eye contact and talking about how

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bad homelessness has gotten downtown.

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You had an anecdote in this

section of the story that I thought

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was really eye opening for me.

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David's Pizza brought the group of

walkers a breakfast pizza in the morning

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and none of that pizza made it to any

of the unhoused people that were there.

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So, But that morning Nicolette brought

snack packs that she told me she

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spent 70 of her own money on because

she was like I want to go out on this

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experience and talk to these people

maybe let them know how it's being

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perceived by others I don't feel morally

okay about going on these walks again

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without having something of value to

offer to the people that we see and

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you know by We saw maybe, maybe a dozen

unhoused people, and all of Nicolette's

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snacks were gone by the end of that.

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Somebody told her that he was thirsty,

and all she had was a half drink bottle of

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Perrier that she had bought for herself.

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She was like, this is awkward because

I've drank out of this, but it's yours

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if you want it, and he took her up on it.

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He took it, and another person asked

her for water later in the walk, and

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she didn't have anything to give him,

and I'm, I'm It was hard for me, too,

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because I've gone out on walks before

as reporting, I've talked to people who

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were unhoused, literally just wandered

around and talked to people about their

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experience, and I wasn't there that

day to talk to unhoused people, I was

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there that day to see what the walk did.

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And so it was pretty uncomfortable for

me to just follow along at their pace,

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not stop and ask anybody questions.

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You had a note for me in my first

draft that was like, did you have

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a chance to ask any unhoused people

what they think of this walk?

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And I'm like, no, cause I was fighting

for my life and my impractical

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shoe wear to keep up with them.

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And yeah, I mean, I think like

there is a real complexity

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between like intent versus impact.

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I told Cooley that I felt.

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I felt like a voyeur, or it was, like

I was, it just, yeah, that sense of oh,

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I'm looking at people, I'm talking about

people, and not being present with them,

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not engaging in a way that actually helps

them, and I told him that that was my

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experience, and he was pretty wrinkled

by that, and he, he was, he shared some

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of his own experience with a child who

has struggled with addiction issues

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and mental health issues and told me

that, for him, it's not voyeuristic.

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He thinks about his kid when

he's out there on these walks.

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He's worried that he, one day,

he might see his kid's face

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or his nightmares about that.

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And I do want to acknowledge that for some

I'm not trying to say that every person

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that went on these walks had the same.

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I can't speak to that, but I do think

I keep coming back to how it looks to

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the people who are sleeping under the

bridge, regardless of what each of

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these individual people walking are

thinking about when they're on the walks.

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When I think about, that's just very

different to the way we try to report

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and different people have different,

standards and whatever, but that, that

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piece of putting yourself in the shoes of

somebody who might be waking up as a group

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of people walk past at an ungodly hour.

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So much of the value of the kind of

work that we do, I think, is really

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an opportunity to have a mutual

connection with somebody and not

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just understand Especially when it's

somebody who's impacted, like an

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unhoused person or any other of the

folks that we talk with in our stories.

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Not just to get their point of view,

but to just help also be a point of

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connection to a world that they may

or may not have been either excluded

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from from their whole life or,

temporarily because of their situation.

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And I think both of those things are

really, really important and so, I,

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I think you're right and it's not

necessarily our, I think there's a lot

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of different ways to do effective work.

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I just don't know how you can How you can

expect to reach people without talking

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to them, I guess, is one of the issues.

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Yeah, and if that was all that

happened, they went on this walk

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every morning and then they went home,

I might be able to accept the sort

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of, we all have different intents.

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And I, my story might have been framed

differently if that was the case.

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Right.

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But after all of these walks, Cooley

sends out an email to this listserv

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that's here's what I, here's a selfie of

our walking group and here's all of his

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thoughts on what the city's doing wrong

and what they could be doing differently

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to eliminate visible homelessness.

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And sometimes he included photos

of unhoused people that they saw on

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the walk, like with people's faces.

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Sometimes people in distress, people

sleeping under a bridge, people, maybe

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with drug paraphernalia in view or huddled

around a fire of trash, which is something

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that I saw on the walk was people

warming their hands on a pile of trash

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that they'd set on fire under a bridge,

technically illegal, but I think it's

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hard to fault anybody for that at 5 a.

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m.

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when you are also cold and wet.

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And, and so he goes on these walks and

then sends out these emails and it's part

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of this targeted campaign to, he uses

the language, get real collaboration from

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the city and the county and to get all of

these different regional groups to treat.

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as the emergency it is.

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And he really toes this fine line

between language that is, I think

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objectively appealing to conservative

readers and language that's appealing

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to more progressive or liberal readers.

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Ultimately the solution he's

proposing is that we Involuntarily.

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Involuntarily commit people.

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Yeah, if necessary, yeah.

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Which is a conservative tactic that

has been taken up by some, I would say,

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moderate Democrats or moderate liberals

in various places across the state.

244

But I haven't really seen that

would require a state law change.

245

It's really complicated right now to

actually involuntarily commit somebody.

246

It's not a silver bullet at the moment,

and there are some cases, I think, that

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might require that, but one of the things

Mayor Lisa Brown told me was that A, it's

248

more humanizing to treat each people,

each person, as a unique individual

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with a unique set of circumstances and

challenges that require different things.

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It's also just gonna be more effective.

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It is, yes.

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So, involuntary commitment has there

is a lack of research around it.

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I really struggled to find long form

research pieces about how effective it is.

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I found a couple, though, and the couple

that I did find pointed to recidivism.

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And a lack of trust in the

mental health system afterwards.

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So, if you are somebody who's on

the street and you get picked up

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and taken to Geiger Correctional

Center where you're put in a Kind of

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recommissioned jail cell and given

mental health treatment and detoxed.

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You might not, you're probably

going to have ongoing mental

260

health issues after that.

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There's no, not usually a quick and easy

solution to mental health issues, usually.

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And so, if you have this distrust

in the medical system, you might not

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go back and get that long term help.

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Or fill a prescription, or there might

be a fear that a doctor is going to take

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you back to Geiger Correctional Center

well, and no great fan of liberals

266

former sheriff Ozzie Konezovich was.

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One of the things he was pretty clear

about was that the Spokane County Jail,

268

which would include Geiger at the time

he was talking about this, because

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Geiger is, an extension of that system

is the second largest mental health

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facility in Washington State behind

the Western State Hospital, which

271

is an actual psychiatric facility.

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Our jail is not a psychiatric facility,

it's a jail, and one of the problems, even

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if somebody ends up in jail because of a

mental break, probably, if they've been

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previously medicated, it means they've

been separated from their medication

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for some reason, and if they, Were,

dissociating or whatever badly enough

276

that they were taken in off the streets

or out of their home or something.

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Imagine how much worse that

disassociation is gonna get

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once you get thrown behind bars.

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That's an escalating factor.

280

Yeah, and if somebody was

misdiagnosed, it's a lot harder

281

to get a new prescription, or new

medicine, or new treatment in jail.

282

A lot of times they're working

with old medical records.

283

And so it can just be re

traumatizing and maybe get people

284

care that wasn't working for them.

285

On the topic of involuntary commitment

though, it is, it is more complicated.

286

I think I am, as a, as a person, as a

human thinking ethically about these

287

things, that's like absolute last resort

in my mind and, and really feels like

288

there has to be a really good reason for

taking away someone's civil rights in

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that way, without due process, without

a court order and stuff like that.

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I will say there was a really fascinating,

I think, four episode podcast last

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year from KUOW, the, the public.

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radio station over on the west side of the

state called Lost Patients, which deals

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really empathetically with this issue.

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One of the, one of the, so

right now, voluntary commitment,

295

involuntary commitment is possible,

but it generally requires some

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sort of interaction with Police.

297

I've been on an involuntary commitment

case on one of my ride alongs.

298

So one of the people, one of the

families that this, this podcast

299

covers is a mom and dad whose son is,

who's now in his thirties is really

300

struggling and they're trying, he

ends up breaking into their house.

301

They buy him a condo to just so

that he can maybe live, a little

302

bit more peacefully or comfortably.

303

They're trying to take care of him without

forcing him to be under their roof.

304

But they go through this whole process

where he breaks in and gets a little

305

violent at one point and there's an

entire episode where they're trying to

306

see what they can do with the system to

give, basically give him a time out, put

307

him into a facility that will, help him

get straight and it becomes a point where

308

it becomes clear they're going to have

to wait for something bad enough that

309

the cops are going to have to get called

and then you hear these parents talk

310

about, I'm worried, That if cops show up

when my son's dissociating It's going to

311

end up with him dead and which I think

is a real concern that and so if we're

312

thinking about There's all these little

nuances and fault lines that I do think

313

there is more complicated Conversation to

be had about involuntary commitment and

314

these are probably one to five percent of

cases though, too so the the concern for

315

me from a harm reduction lens is Making

that a blanket for a hundred percent of

316

the population feels like the wrong move,

but we do also have to think about the

317

The health and well being of that, maybe

two or 5 percent of people we should

318

move on to the next one before we did.

319

I just wanted to say that Oh, I do

want to, yeah, I have one more thing

320

to say about this, which is to string

it into the next thing, which is that

321

the Spokane Business Association, which

Cooley works for, is, was started by

322

Larry Stone, who is one of the biggest,

okay, okay, well, you were going to

323

ask me, I was going to bring it up on

my own but he's a massive conservative

324

donor, and so the heart for it.

325

of one of the arguments in my story.

326

It was like, is this political?

327

Is this not political?

328

Mayor Brown was telling me this feels

like a pretty targeted political attack.

329

They're asking for collaboration,

but they only ever yell at me.

330

They only ever yell at the city.

331

They only ever yell at

progressive politicians.

332

Yeah, this, this regional homelessness

thing was supposed to be a collaboration

333

between all of the cities in our

county and the county itself.

334

There was a breakdown that people

at SBA and people like Barry

335

Barfield lay at the foot of.

336

of Mayor Brown in Spokane, but

This was also on, it's, it was at

337

least on, the project was on life

support when Mayor Woodward was

338

involved, and she's a conservative.

339

There was, yeah, there were some struggles

with it mainly that jail was one of

340

the big pillars of the housing plan,

or where they planned to put people.

341

And service providers, especially

progressive service providers.

342

service providers or people with

lived experience of homelessness

343

pointed to that as I think one of

the quotes from a past article was

344

jail cannot be our housing plan.

345

Right.

346

And so, yeah, I mean, I was also

trying to get at this heart of are

347

these people trying to, these people

that go on these walks, are they

348

trying to help unhoused people?

349

Yeah.

350

Are, is this politically

driven, and if so, what's the

351

politically salient point here?

352

Why is this so focused on Brown?

353

And, I was really trying to do a fair job

of encompassing all of these viewpoints.

354

Cause like we've talked about, there is

a lot of complexities and nuances here.

355

Not objective, but fair.

356

Well, we should say that Gavin Cooley,

before he started this job with

357

SBA, was The chief financial officer

of the city for both, and that's a

358

nonpartisan, non appointed, I guess it

is technically an appointed role, but

359

that's not, he didn't get elected to that.

360

So he's neither.

361

He's never been a politician, he's served

under both Republican, or what would

362

be conservative and liberal mayors.

363

And he was on Brown's transition team.

364

He was on Brown's transition team.

365

But it also seems like his, his hire

was pretty strategic on Stone's part,

366

because he one of the things he said

to you was like, I'm a Democrat,

367

I'm a Democrat, I'm a Democrat.

368

And so it felt at least to me, and

knowing Gavin a little bit from, from

369

the past, it felt a little bit like.

370

There's clearly been an attempt to

make this seem like a bipartisan

371

association, but also just the way they

talk makes it Even more clear that it's

372

not really a bipartisan initiative.

373

And the way they're having conversations

about what language can they use that

374

will be more appealing to progressives.

375

Yeah, it's, regardless of what you

think your party affiliation is, you're

376

coming from a pretty conservative

lens when you're trying to figure

377

out how to reach Progressives.

378

Yeah, that's a symbol or a sign of that.

379

Yeah, and there was a pretty interesting

literary metaphor But I think we can

380

circle back to that later after we

touch on The story ran on Sunday by our

381

colleagues Alexander Duggan and Emery

Denman at the Spokesman Review about a

382

different newsletter this one written

by local developer Sheldon Jackson, so

383

This is not tied to a, I mean, Spokane

Business Association's been around for

384

less than a year, so that's a new, it

is at least in some sort of association.

385

This is just an email that

Jackson started sending out.

386

He had been, he's been a developer

in town for decades, but he first

387

entered the public imagination,

or at least I was first.

388

first became aware of him in the early

years of the pandemic when he started

389

driving around, especially this, when,

as our housing crisis deepened and

390

more unhoused people ended up on the

streets in the early part of Mayor

391

Woodward's tenure, he started just

driving around checking in on places.

392

And I've, I caught some of these

emails early on and they were pretty.

393

careful with their language in those

early years and he was changed since then.

394

But he started off just by sending

them to mayor Woodward another local

395

conservative Person, Chad Wendell who's

now long, no longer really associated

396

was also part of these conversations.

397

Police Chief Craig Meidle was in on

these it was just basically a one

398

way email from Jackson to a bunch

of elected leaders that eventually

399

included city council members as well.

400

But it, it's gotten a little bit

more Is unhinged an okay word to say?

401

Unruly.

402

Maybe I mean, I've had a couple of

these emails forwarded to me and

403

these aren't like when you get a

polished newsletter like let's say

404

you get the SBA newsletter, right?

405

Like it's really nice and pretty.

406

You can't see who else

it's been emailed to.

407

It has type hierarchy, yeah.

408

Yeah there's like nice logo design

and sometimes it's even just like

409

a PNG file that they've designed

and attached to the email, yeah.

410

This is scrolling through

400, literally, this is not an

411

exaggeration, 400 email addresses to

get to the body of Sheldon's email.

412

And then sometimes people will hit

reply all, so then you have to scroll

413

through it again to see their response.

414

It's I think somebody Nobody

taught my man how to BCC people?

415

Yeah.

416

Yeah, somebody in the article that this

Spokesman wrote said that they they

417

joked that they got carpal tunnel just

trying to get to the body of the email.

418

So it's a little bit more unruly.

419

In some ways, it's a little unwilling.

420

Most of the people on that list

have asked to be put on it.

421

Like journalists, or activists,

organizers, developers.

422

But whether they want it or not, Jackson,

CC's, a bunch of politicians on there.

423

I think the early emails were

like going out to 20 people.

424

The spokesman article

clocked it now at about 400.

425

And then like you're saying, I

think it also gets Forwarded by

426

other people to other people.

427

So I think the number that it

actually reaches is a little higher.

428

Yeah.

429

And that also makes them

a matter of public record,

430

which I think is interesting.

431

Any email sent to a politician

becomes a public record.

432

Or any email sent to a city email

server would be a public record.

433

So even sending it to a city staffer.

434

Yeah.

435

I thought it was funny, City Council

Member Paul Dillon told me that sometimes

436

he'll respond to the email to either

address claims in it or provide more

437

context but he has to be really careful

about responding to the email because

438

all of these other politicians are

CC'd in the email list, and so if he

439

hits reply all, he could be violating

quorum by discussing city business.

440

It would be technically

a public meeting, yeah.

441

Yeah.

442

So he has to go in and individually remove

at least three other council members.

443

So he is not accidentally

creating a violation of quorum

444

by responding to the email.

445

So tell me a little bit about the

content of these emails, Luke.

446

Oh, well, How well did you read the story?

447

I power skimmed.

448

Well, so.

449

You should probably just do it.

450

Okay, so the lead of the story is

this interesting narrative about

451

a mugging that happens downtown.

452

Right, yeah, this is a wild story.

453

And according to Sheldon Jackson's email

server at the time, a woman had been

454

walking to work at River Park Square

and she was dragged into an alley.

455

And she was mugged and this was so scary

and so bad that the downtown Spokane

456

partnership was now like Recommending

that everybody walk with a buddy and if

457

you don't have one, they might assign

one to you, I think there was i'm like

458

working with a loose memory of this the

details of this email and that would

459

be shocking and If it had actually

happened, but it did not actually happen.

460

It did not happen.

461

It was not the truth.

462

It was essentially the end result of

a game of telephone of a local law

463

office, some employees overhearing

something about maybe a mugging

464

that had happened in the past.

465

It was literally a Telephone chain of

like somebody said something and then

466

Version of telephone where the what

actually gets said is gets less and

467

less accurate over time as you go

And it's not just people like jackson

468

who are reprinting misinformation.

469

This happened a lot in especially in

the early days of the crisis there were

470

I would say, without outing people,

progressive, homeless, care coordinators

471

who were amplifying, I think, and I

think in both of these characterizations,

472

I think it's okay to assume goodwill,

even if the outcome is negative.

473

If people are getting mugged and

dragged into alleys in downtown

474

Spokane, I would want to know about it.

475

I would just want to make sure

that that was actually correct.

476

Likewise, if people, because of

a lack of shelter are freezing

477

to death in dumpsters, which was

another story that I heard years ago.

478

And that became this big topic of

discussion around the problem is so bad,

479

we need, it's whether or not the story

is true, it's indicative of a problem.

480

And that was another another

conversation that we had.

481

For a long time when we were fighting

over when as a city when we were

482

fighting over Camp hope and whether

it should stay open and what we should

483

do instead and how how we should house

people But yeah misinformation is bad

484

regardless of where it comes from.

485

Yeah, and so that's the argument

That, I mean, you touched on the

486

argument that Sheldon's making.

487

So he, first he goes dark when he

finds out that this is misinformation.

488

And he is I'm going to

stop emailing people.

489

You guys are putting me all at risk.

490

And he gets mad at the

people who, the source of the

491

information basically, right?

492

Right.

493

And then he does an about face and is

well No, because this, whether or not

494

this was true you could all believe

that it was true, because this is, this.

495

Doesn't it, doesn't it shine, doesn't

it seem plausible in light of what

496

a situation we're in downtown, yeah.

497

Yeah, and so, this is like pretty

close to what we all see every day.

498

So, I think the quote was, it may have,

it might have been wrong, but not far

499

from what we deal with every single day.

500

And this isn't the first time

misinformation has been spread

501

on Jackson's email server.

502

There was also, a lot of misreporting on

crime response times from police, from

503

specifically one business owner who sent

an email about Oh, this horrible thing

504

happened in front of my coffee shop.

505

And the cops never showed up.

506

The cops never showed up.

507

And just like 95 percent of the details

of that were completely false, according

508

to police reports and even the phone

call that the business owner made.

509

So, it's turned into this loud chain

of, and it's not always misinformation.

510

I've got to say, sometimes

they, cite the true statistic

511

about overdose rates going up.

512

It's scary.

513

It's bad.

514

Cooley also cites that

statistic pretty frequently.

515

But where I think the difference between

Gavin's email and Sheldon's email is

516

that one time, Cooley did send out

an email that got some stats wrong.

517

Right.

518

And in his next email, he immediately

sent out a detailed correction, and

519

was like, I'm sorry, this was my

bad, here are the actual numbers.

520

Sheldon's take is well, you believed

it, because it felt true, and, this

521

is, this is a really big problem.

522

And, I think he also doesn't note yes,

the overdose rates are going up, but in

523

general, crime is going down in Spokane.

524

And I think that's a stat that a lot

of these people really like to ignore.

525

And then there's also the idea of

the self fulfilling prophecy, right?

526

We tell this story of downtown being bad

and scary and full of people who want

527

to hurt you, And not a place where there

are thriving businesses and wonderful

528

service providers who are doing what

they can to ensure that people don't die.

529

And people, yeah, maybe unhoused people

are congregating around here because

530

they're trying to access services

so they can get off the streets and

531

so that they can get medical care.

532

I think if you tell the other

narrative of, it's dangerous out

533

there, it's the wild west, you

might get mugged in an alley.

534

That's maybe creating this self

fulfilling prophecy is, is the, the

535

quote that maybe people shouldn't go

downtown and then, downtown businesses

536

are going to have it worse because

people don't go because they're scared.

537

I have honestly both with Gavin

and with Sheldon and just a lot

538

of this conversation around the

Spokane is dying or what, or curing.

539

Spokane.

540

It wasn't sp, it was Seattle is

Dying and the curing Spokane,

541

the Spokane version of it.

542

Spokane, which was SP

cured by Larry Stone.

543

Right.

544

And is it like, yeah.

545

Do you want.

546

it to get worse downtown for business

owners, because if you're creating a

547

situation, I mean, I come from a North

side family many, many jokes from my

548

dearly departed grandfather about, getting

a nosebleed driving up the South hill or

549

not being able to find parking downtown.

550

There are just a lot of folks in our city

who don't spend a ton of time downtown.

551

If the only narrative they're

getting is how dangerous it is, do

552

you really expect that to change?

553

And we do need like everyone in

our city to love our downtown area.

554

I don't really know the, it doesn't,

especially for somebody like Jackson,

555

who is a landlord, a commercial property

owner who has a bunch of retail spaces.

556

I can see why, and the person who got

the police call times wrong is one of

557

his tenants in one of his buildings.

558

So it's on the one hand, I could

understand why a landlord would be worried

559

about an individual tenant leaving.

560

Right.

561

Or, or their business going so poorly

because of whatever problems they perceive

562

that there's just no more rent coming in.

563

Right.

564

That would impact their

business negatively.

565

But what if in addition to that,

nobody ever wanted to rent your space

566

again because they're so worried about

this perception of crime downtown.

567

That's, it feels like you're cutting

off your nose to spite your face.

568

Yeah.

569

And it's hard for me.

570

I think about these, I grew

up in a really small town.

571

Homelessness looked a lot different there.

572

And I come here and, I was very

much in the Gonzaga bubble for my

573

first couple of years in Spokane.

574

I didn't come downtown a whole

lot, mostly because I didn't have

575

my car and I didn't really know

how to navigate the bus system.

576

Actually, Luke and Val taught me

how to navigate the bus system.

577

But Changing lives every day.

578

Now that I spend a lot more time downtown

There have been, I can count on one

579

hand, the amount of times that I have

felt scared walking alone downtown, and

580

most of those times have been really

late at night when it's just really

581

empty and I would probably be scared

regardless, like just a little anxious

582

about walking back to my car at 2 a.

583

m.

584

But every other time, like I walk, I walk

Downtown to get around around council

585

meetings every night at Monday on Mondays

and I've had people come up to me and

586

ask me for money, but that's not a threat

That's just somebody telling you that they

587

have a need When I've said that I either

can or can't help that need like nobody's

588

ever gotten aggressive or angry with me

Which is not to speak for everyone else's

589

experience, but I mean it doesn't happen.

590

It just doesn't happen very often yeah,

and I live in a neighborhood that is

591

not downtown, my house has been broken

into, and my car has been stolen.

592

I feel less safe in the

neighborhood I live in than

593

walking around downtown by myself.

594

Curing West Central, or, oh no,

this was Curing Logan Neighborhood.

595

Yeah, Curing Logan Neighborhood.

596

It's a college neighborhood, like it's,

anyways, I also should say that I had

597

a conversation with I guess he actually

is a developer because he owns a couple

598

of properties downtown, but he's mostly

an architect, Josh is song of, of HDG.

599

Their office is right there on,

I think it's third and Stevens.

600

You've probably seen they, they

usually put like big graphic sayings

601

on the side of their building.

602

He was talking about how, and this

has been very much my experience.

603

Like I.

604

Okay.

605

A couple months ago, I took a

separate, a different walk downtown

606

with in the morning with Ben Tobin,

our photographer friend who just

607

has been doing this for seven years.

608

He thinks if he's got his numbers right,

just walking almost every day, it's

609

most, it's a mental health practice

for him, but he's taking photos of, of.

610

Downtown Spokane in the morning both

the people and the architecture and so

611

he and I went out and I Had a couple

interactions with unhoused people at 6

612

in the morning when people were trying

to spend doesn't take people's pictures

613

without their consent yeah, and in one

situation like somebody's dog just ran

614

up to me to get petted and it led to a

really beautiful kind sweet conversation

615

with this dude about his dog whose name

was Polly and he always He named him

616

Pauly because he wanted treats so bad.

617

He would call and say, he

would always say, Pauly want a

618

cracker and give him a treat.

619

And, and this week, just last week, Josh

Tolt was telling me a similar story.

620

He's I've been, we've just been having

conversations about what's going

621

on downtown for a little while now.

622

And Ben's been part of

those conversations.

623

And Josh was like, I think I got,

I hope I'm not telling this story

624

out of turn, but he's I think I

had gotten a little desensitized

625

from working and living downtown.

626

I don't know if anything had really

happened to my priorities, but it's

627

just like I got so used to seeing

people sleeping that I stopped saying

628

hi, I stopped checking in, stopped

saying if, seeing if they were okay.

629

And since we've been talking,

I've started doing that again.

630

And one thing that I've noticed is

whenever I bump into something, like if

631

somebody happens to be sleeping in front

of my door when I get into work in the

632

morning, I just try to gently rouse them.

633

Every single time, it's not like I'm

worried I'm gonna, somebody's gonna lash

634

out or be violent or stab me or something.

635

Every single time, people

apologize and move on.

636

So, I, I really do think, not to inject

my own opinion too much here, and, and

637

this isn't the, the solution in a hundred

percent of cases, because there are real

638

people who have been violently attacked.

639

I have had, I have had, I've been

in some violent, potentially violent

640

situations myself, so I know they exist.

641

But for the other 98, 99 percent of

situations eye contact and a high is

642

probably whatever, the best way to dispel

whatever situation you think you're

643

getting into, as opposed to treating

every single person as a potential

644

vector for violence against you, I think.

645

Yeah.

646

Quick update, Gonzaga Bulldogs are

ahead of the Georgia Bulldogs, 85 to

647

62 with about two, three minutes and

22 seconds left in the second half.

648

So I'm going to say the Zags are punching

their ticket to the second round, Erin.

649

Please don't ruin it.

650

I mean, 23 points in

three minutes would be.

651

an unbelievable collapse.

652

But I am still knocking on wood.

653

All right.

654

You, we wanted to talk about, there

were some, some highbrow classic

655

literary illusions in both of these

stories that I was proud of ours

656

and happy to see in the other story.

657

So we, what was our, what was the

illusion you used for Gavin Cooley's

658

Crusades, maybe a little loaded of a term.

659

They used to call it the 5 a.

660

m.

661

crusade.

662

That was actually the first draft.

663

It lasted for one email and

then it switched to the 5 a.

664

m.

665

crisis walk, but it's not too

loaded of a term, I don't think.

666

If it was used once, yeah.

667

But yeah, he, so, when he was talking

about this, and like, how he went from

668

being ostensibly a Democrat donor,

Mayor Brown transition team member

669

to working for one of the biggest,

if not the biggest, donors to her

670

political opponent who has spent a lot

of money on anti homeless rhetoric.

671

Right.

672

Uh, Larry Stone's been spending tens

of thousands of dollars, including

673

on that Curing Spokane video.

674

I heard anecdotally that Curing Spokane

video was over 60, 000 because I knew

675

some of the people who produced it.

676

He also owns the old Trent shelter

that he was renting to the city

677

for a pretty high rent for them

to use as a congregate shelter.

678

So, a lot of connecting, Madame

Webb situation going on here.

679

Yeah.

680

But I had asked him, like how do

you go from point A to point B?

681

How do you make this argument

that it's not political?

682

Why are all of your emails so maybe

aggressive or targeted towards the mayor

683

and not necessarily the county when a

collaborative effort would require both?

684

And it all seemed to come down to

that regional homeless authority

685

that we talked about a little bit.

686

And he viewed Brown as kind of the,

the sole, the final hatchet to that.

687

And she took some responsibility for

that and told me that she was, the first

688

She thinks that there were other

issues and that maybe other people

689

would have, but she was the first one

to do it and that kind of killed it.

690

And so he, it keeps coming back to

this regional homeless authority.

691

And so eventually I'm like, Gavin,

it sounds like the regional homeless

692

authority is your white whale.

693

Would that be accurate?

694

And he, spent about six minutes of

my recording explaining to me why

695

yes, that was, a pretty accurate

descriptor, although he did admit

696

he hasn't read Moby Dick in a while.

697

So maybe he doesn't remember how badly

the whole White Whale situation ends.

698

The person hunting Moby Dick in

that, in this metaphor, doesn't

699

end well for him in the book.

700

And so I don't know if he wants.

701

To be associated with Captain Ahab.

702

But he did say he hadn't read it

in a while, so maybe he doesn't

703

remember the full context.

704

Maybe he forgot that it's a tragedy.

705

I don't wanna yeah.

706

Yeah.

707

And maybe it is a tragedy.

708

I don't know.

709

Yeah.

710

And the spokesman piece was actually

titled Tilting at Windmills.

711

Which is an allusion to Don Quixote.

712

Yeah, so famously Don Quixote fights

windmills that he thinks are dragons.

713

And this literary reference has

really been testing the limits

714

of people's reading comprehension

skills in the last century.

715

I saw a comment on the Facebook

post of the spokesman's story that

716

was like, These windmills are real.

717

Basically being like, whatever You're

pretending the windmills are fake.

718

Yeah, and somebody responded Yeah, the

windmills are real, but they're not the

719

dragons that Don Quixote thinks they are,

or the giants, or whatever the monster is.

720

Yeah, the whole point is that

That's the whole point of the story.

721

And it's, it's the whole point of

the metaphor of like when people say

722

tilting at windmills, it means you're

like, you're attacking something

723

that you think is a dragon or an

ogre, but it's just a windmill.

724

Yeah, and the reason why we It's titled

the segment Good Cop, Bad Cop, was that

725

I saw today a tweet from Councilmember

Paul Dillon's council account, so this

726

is a matter of public record quote,

Sheldon Jackson told me he was playing

727

the bad cop, so Gavin Cooley from

SBA could come in and be the bad cop.

728

The good cop.

729

Cooley told me he couldn't read Jackson's

emails because they were so bad.

730

How people in this story

separate their lives from their

731

words is the strangest part.

732

End quote.

733

And he was linking to the

spokesman's story on Sheldon Jackson.

734

And so I've just been thinking of

these two figures as where they

735

are in opposition to each other.

736

I think it might be more of a spectrum and

less of a two sides of one coin situation.

737

What do you mean by that?

738

I guess I spent, and maybe it is just that

I spent a lot more time with Gavin Cooley.

739

And, he looked me in the eye and he told

me that this is important to him because

740

of what has happened with his family.

741

And I think that Cooley is a lot

more careful with his language.

742

Seems to think that what he's doing

is oriented towards a greater good.

743

I don't know, maybe they are

two sides of the same coin.

744

Cause I guess Sheldon Jackson, they

talked about, also had a pretty

745

traumatic past with addiction.

746

And it's just hard.

747

People are, I think, always

going to be more complicated.

748

then any journalist

can capture in a story.

749

And for me, it's I think, I think

I look past Cooley to Larry Stone,

750

the person who's enabled all this.

751

And for me, it feels like in just

their sort of personal bio, but

752

then also the parallelness of how

they've been dealing with this, this.

753

situation of quote unquote visible

homelessness is very, very similar.

754

Like Larry Stone and Sheldon

Jackson, their, their interventions

755

seem very, very similar to me.

756

The, the primary difference is Sheldon

is, you're mainlining his direct words

757

every single day when he sends out

these emails to, to his 400 people.

758

Stone has always been a

behind the scenes guy.

759

He's done maybe one interview for the

Spok for the Inlander over the years.

760

He used to actually be a Democratic

761

And it was a, a spat with Ben

Stuckert that began his shift.

762

Well, and also he saw a homeless

person standing near an ATM one time.

763

Yeah, and that's in the,

that's in that Inlander story.

764

So, so one time a homeless person

at an ATM made him uncomfortable.

765

And he is, so he briefly stepped out

of the shadows to try to tell his own

766

story in that, in that piece by our

friend and colleague, Nate Sanford

767

I don't think it went well for him.

768

And so he's, he's receded back and

chosen, and I actually think for his

769

purposes, if he wants to make this seem

like a, a bipartisan initiative or a

770

more, I think he chose the right person

in Gavin Cooley, but I do, it does feel

771

like Larry Stone and Sheldon Jackson

are very, very much aligned in there in

772

the intent they have for, for this work.

773

Yeah, I think that's fair.

774

Yeah, so that was our, that was

going to be our first segment.

775

It's ended up taking up

almost the entire show.

776

No, it's good.

777

It's important stuff.

778

We were going to briefly talk about the

Michael Baumgartner town hall that you

779

also went to that was pretty wild and

is now I've seen, I don't know if it was

780

actually on CNN, but it was certainly on

CNN social media earlier this morning,

781

the, A really, really raucous crowd.

782

Oh, it's made the rounds.

783

Mary Trump on her YouTube

show used clips from it.

784

It's going TikTok viral.

785

This is the anti Trump Trump, right?

786

Mary Trump is the cousin of Donald Trump

who has basically built a media career

787

for herself talking crap about her cousin.

788

Yeah, I've seen it all over as well.

789

And it's Pretty fascinating how

our freshman congressman Michael

790

Baumgartner, not to be confused

with Baumgarten we are not related.

791

It's not even the same name.

792

If you monsters knew German,

you would understand.

793

It's not the same name.

794

But he then went on the Jason Rantz show,

which is basically like the Seattle's

795

Sean Hannity to talk about how these,

this was a coordinated left wing attack

796

at trying to make Whitworth, I'm sorry

alluded to Whitworth having coordinated

797

with leftist groups to give tickets out.

798

From what the Whitworth staff

told reporters, they, released

799

500 tickets to the public and

then they set aside another 200.

800

100 of those went to students

and the other 100 went to the

801

Rockwood Senior Center, which

was like next door to Whitworth.

802

Literally a senior center that

touches Whitworth's property and

803

is probably like within walking

distance to this auditorium.

804

And.

805

It's, that was just the most

kind of galling thing to me.

806

It's if you, actually, and this is,

come up in conversations with friends is

807

that, that level of disruption, because

it was really, I mean, you, you knew

808

better than me because you were there.

809

It was like an extremely

disruptive environment.

810

Is that politically smart?

811

Does it actually get us anything?

812

I think these are all

fine questions to ask.

813

And if And I think it would be, just

the way that Baumgartner is like, just

814

leaning on those tropes that I really

815

Antifa busing, what Ozzy Kanesovich was

saying about people The, the black folks

816

in Spokane, or just the communities in

Spokane, the, the multiracial communities

817

in Spokane that were protesting after the

murder of George Floyd that these were

818

bussed in, they were crisis actors, these

are not Spokanites that's a long history

819

and it's actually a racist history of

saying these are not our black people.

820

This, this goes all the way back

to the civil rights struggle.

821

It feels very parallel to that for me, and

it's really disappointing from a freshman

822

Congress member who, the, started off the

conversation by saying, I represent all

823

of you, even the 39 percent that didn't.

824

That was actually a

piece of your live tweet.

825

And I think it was referenced in the

subsequent story that you wrote that

826

was really fascinating to me was how

he started off the conversation talking

827

positively about I am going to be the

representative for those 39 percent

828

of people who didn't vote for me,

vote for me in like a magnanimous way.

829

And then by the time we got to the

press conference, it was very much That

830

room was full of fringe leftists, and

most of eastern Washington isn't like

831

that, But the town hall that he had in

Ritzville, which again, is not exactly

832

the center of Antifa's universe, it's

a tiny little farming town, and where

833

the, the, the only public transit that

I know of is the Greyhound bus that

834

stops a couple times a day at the Zips,

last time I took that bus, That's not

835

a, that's not a conservative bastion,

that's an extremely, or it's not a liberal

836

bastion, and that was also pretty raucous.

837

It was.

838

I do have to, you know I saw some names,

I read the spokesman's story about the

839

Ritzville Town Hall, and I saw some

people quoted there that I know live in

840

Spokane and do leftist organizing, so I

think that there was, like I don't think

841

he's entirely wrong in that there was

some organized opposition, but I think it

842

was more so like grassroots groups being

like, Oh my gosh, we know this town hall

843

is happening, set an alarm on your phone

so you can make sure you get a ticket.

844

If you don't get a ticket, maybe

you can go to the Ritzville one.

845

But the people that we heard from at

this event, like they reserved a certain

846

amount of questions for students.

847

So like half of the questions

nearly were from students, one of.

848

The ones which I included in my story

was a pretty impassioned plea from a

849

healthcare student who was like what are

you going to do to protect healthcare?

850

And not about reproductive health

rights, more like my job is going to

851

be contingent on Medicare funding,

Medicaid funding, this is how our

852

rural healthcare system works, yeah.

853

And then another question was from

a German immigrant who was pressing

854

him on what he intends to do to

protect people in his district

855

from Trump's immigration policies.

856

And his answer was actually, well, first

he asked who in the room voted for Trump.

857

And then he said that he thinks the

Wash, keep Washington working act, or

858

he's going to do whatever he can to make

Washington not be a sanctuary state.

859

He was basically saying it would be

better if local law enforcement actually

860

did participate and collaborate with.

861

With federal immigration officials.

862

So it was wild.

863

It was a wild event.

864

Wild response to the event.

865

And a wild start to a

new congressman's tenure.

866

Yeah, he did keep saying, I've

only been here for, was it 55 days?

867

I don't know, he gave like the day count.

868

Yeah.

869

Kept saying that You knew who

I was when you voted for me.

870

I'm keeping my promises.

871

I don't know why everybody's so mad.

872

Ha ha ha.

873

Yeah, that's fascinating.

874

All right.

875

Well, we, I'm sure there will be

a lot more to talk to about, about

876

this Congress, this president

and our relationship to it.

877

That's going to do it for us today though.

878

Free Range is a weekly news and

public affairs program presented by

879

Range Media and produced by Range

Media and KYRS Community Radio.

880

Catch you next week.

881

Yep.

882

Thank you, Erin.

883

See ya.