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040: What’s Annuities Got to Do With It? - Part 1
Episode 4021st June 2023 • Retirement Equals Freedom • Josh Bretl
00:00:00 00:35:06

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Annuities! For years now they’ve been dissed, maligned and misunderstood … which is why we’re setting the record straight on this episode of Retirement Equals Freedom.

Host Josh Bretl, owner of FSR Wealth Strategies, explains why this particular investment vehicle has gotten a bad rap (Co-Host Dave Schmidt can relate) and how to educate ourselves on the facts.

As always, it comes down to taking a holistic look at your financial snapshot, including timelines, mix of investments and overall goals.

Sure. When it comes to annuities, there are some very real downsides. But in addition to outlining those, Josh is also helping us get clear about the fact that it’s not a black and white situation.

Or, to put it another way, as our host warns: “If you ever think something is always good, no matter what, you’ve got a problem. And if you think something is bad, no matter what, you’ve got a problem.”

This episode will help anyone who has shut the door on annuities to reconsider them as an investment option – one featuring growth as well as safety.

If you’re intrigued and want to know more, join us for an upcoming Part II that will take a closer look at what annuities offer, how they work and whether they might be just what you need to round out and grow your retirement nest egg.

Trigger Warning: If you’re partial to water chestnuts or have ever worked at a fast-food drive-thru window, the views expressed by your co-hosts may be upsetting. Jokes, we're just having fun.

Transcripts

Josh Bretl:

I wanted to go through the annuity word

Josh Bretl:

because I am of the belief that no single investment or

Josh Bretl:

no single product where you can put your money, Is ever,

Josh Bretl:

always good or always bad.

Josh Bretl:

If you ever think something is always good, no matter

Josh Bretl:

what, you got a problem.

Josh Bretl:

If you think something's always bad, no matter

Josh Bretl:

what, you got a problem.

Josh Bretl:

There are situations in different people's lives that

Josh Bretl:

everything can fit depending upon on where it goes.

Dave Schmidt:

Does this sound like you when you

Dave Schmidt:

hear the word annuities?

Dave Schmidt:

If so, look, we get it.

Dave Schmidt:

For years now they've been dissed, maligned and

Dave Schmidt:

flat out misunderstood.

Dave Schmidt:

Which is why in this episode we're setting

Dave Schmidt:

the record straight.

Dave Schmidt:

Sure.

Dave Schmidt:

When it comes to annuities, there are

Dave Schmidt:

some very real downsides,

Dave Schmidt:

but in addition to outlining those, you'll

Dave Schmidt:

also learn why it's not a black and white situation.

Dave Schmidt:

In other words, as you heard Josh say just a few seconds ago,

Josh Bretl:

No single investment or no single product where you

Josh Bretl:

can put your money, Is ever, always good or always bad.

Dave Schmidt:

This episode will help anyone who has shut the

Dave Schmidt:

door on annuities to reconsider them as an investment option.

Dave Schmidt:

One featuring growth as well as safety.

Dave Schmidt:

Ooh.

Dave Schmidt:

And uh, a trigger warning.

Dave Schmidt:

If you're partial to water chestnuts or have ever worked

Dave Schmidt:

in a fast food drive-through

Dave Schmidt:

the views expressed by your co-hosts may be upsetting,

Dave Schmidt:

but it's all in good fun.

Dave Schmidt:

This is The Retirement Equals Freedom Podcast.

Dave Schmidt:

Your host, Josh Bretl, is the owner of FSR Wealth Strategies.

Dave Schmidt:

And for the last 20 plus years, Josh has been helping

Dave Schmidt:

fine folks like you gain the confidence to make retirement

Dave Schmidt:

the best part of your life.

Dave Schmidt:

And me, who am I?

Dave Schmidt:

Thanks for asking.

Dave Schmidt:

I'm Dave.

Dave Schmidt:

Josh's longtime friend, co-host of the show and

Dave Schmidt:

big fan of ordering (drive thru shenanigans mumbling).

Dave Schmidt:

You'll learn more about that later.

Dave Schmidt:

But for now, let me let you let me end my introduction,

Dave Schmidt:

so you can enjoy the show.

Dave Schmidt:

Just got to put on my chapstick.

Dave Schmidt:

You can't record a podcast with chapped lips.

Josh Bretl:

You know, it's summertime, and I feel like

Josh Bretl:

chapped lips aren't a thing of summer, but I've had some

Josh Bretl:

really chapped lips recently.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah, you've been doing a lot of smooching?

Josh Bretl:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

All that smooching.

Josh Bretl:

If that's the way this is going to start, that's what it is.

Dave Schmidt:

It is what it is.

Josh Bretl:

Big news in our house.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah?

Josh Bretl:

Zach got new glasses.

Josh Bretl:

Zach is tiny.

Josh Bretl:

Since birth, he has barely been on the growth chart.

Josh Bretl:

On height and weight, he's been less than one

Josh Bretl:

percentile his whole life.

Josh Bretl:

He just needed glasses at a young age.

Josh Bretl:

And his face is so tiny, there was one pair that fit him.

Josh Bretl:

At that point we went to Walmart to get his glasses.

Josh Bretl:

Someone recommended that because they said kids break them all

Josh Bretl:

the time, they lose them, so get a cheap pair of glasses.

Josh Bretl:

And we went to Walmart.

Josh Bretl:

The Walmart guy was great, he fit Zach really well.

Josh Bretl:

Zach never broke his glasses, never lost them.

Josh Bretl:

The kid is amazing the way he takes care of glasses.

Josh Bretl:

About a year and a half later, his prescription

Josh Bretl:

got updated a little bit.

Josh Bretl:

We go back to the Walmart again, his face has not grown enough to

Josh Bretl:

get any other pairs of glasses.

Dave Schmidt:

Oh, no.

Dave Schmidt:

Same pair?

Josh Bretl:

Same pair.

Josh Bretl:

So the kid, since kindergarten year, has had the exact

Josh Bretl:

same pair of glasses.

Dave Schmidt:

Different lens, same frame.

Josh Bretl:

Different lens.

Josh Bretl:

We're now going into fourth grade and it's it.

Josh Bretl:

Now, he has an orange and blue lens, so it's like this orange

Josh Bretl:

frame, and it's got a little bit of blue on the inside.

Josh Bretl:

He looks cute.

Josh Bretl:

It's adorable.

Josh Bretl:

This tiny little face, these little glasses on there.

Josh Bretl:

He is going to a different eye doctor, and he's grown a

Josh Bretl:

little bit and they recommended a new pair of glasses.

Josh Bretl:

We're like, "Oh dude, you deserve this."

Josh Bretl:

We went and we got him from the eye doctor, and he had

Josh Bretl:

a lot more choices to make.

Josh Bretl:

But of course, Zach had to pick an orange lens.

Dave Schmidt:

No.

Josh Bretl:

Or an orange frame, I'm sorry.

Josh Bretl:

But it's a bigger, rounder orange frame.

Josh Bretl:

It's those things that I saw him this morning as his

Josh Bretl:

glasses for the first time.

Josh Bretl:

I worked last night.

Josh Bretl:

He's had the same thing for so long that I almost

Josh Bretl:

didn't recognize him this morning in his new glasses.

Dave Schmidt:

Oh man.

Dave Schmidt:

Does he just not like change or does he love the frames?

Josh Bretl:

He likes to try new things, but he doesn't like to

Josh Bretl:

change things that he likes.

Josh Bretl:

Does that make sense?

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

That's deep.

Josh Bretl:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

We have what we call vacation Zach.

Josh Bretl:

Vacation Zach is the happiest version and

Josh Bretl:

best version of Zach.

Josh Bretl:

We take him on vacation and he thrives on vacation,

Josh Bretl:

trying new things, doing new things like that.

Dave Schmidt:

Does he bring the platypus with him?

Josh Bretl:

No.

Josh Bretl:

The duck billed platypus?

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

Sean, I'm glad you remember that.

Josh Bretl:

Sean the duck billed platypus.

Josh Bretl:

Oh God, is that funny.

Dave Schmidt:

Good old Sean.

Josh Bretl:

How are you?

Dave Schmidt:

I don't know, Josh.

Dave Schmidt:

I'm feeling a little gloomy today.

Josh Bretl:

Is there a reason why you're feeling gloomy?

Dave Schmidt:

For those that listen to episode 39, you

Dave Schmidt:

asked the question what I'm looking forward to this summer?

Josh Bretl:

I was worried about this.

Dave Schmidt:

And I answered the Chicago Dog's

Dave Schmidt:

game for my birthday.

Dave Schmidt:

My birthday was June 4th.

Dave Schmidt:

The day before and the day of, I was down and out.

Dave Schmidt:

Felt like poop.

Dave Schmidt:

So we rescheduled to last night.

Dave Schmidt:

Tuesday, June 13th and they got rained out.

Dave Schmidt:

So Dave's summer, I'm not going to say it's officially ruined,

Dave Schmidt:

but it's kind of off to a...

Josh Bretl:

Dave, I'll take you to a Dog's game.

Josh Bretl:

You and I, let's go.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah?

Josh Bretl:

Yeah, we don't need kids or spouses or anything.

Josh Bretl:

We'll just go watch the Dog's.

Dave Schmidt:

Should we record video of ourselves

Dave Schmidt:

enjoying cocktails and hot dogs at this Dog's game?

Josh Bretl:

Oh, that sounds like a great idea.

Dave Schmidt:

Okay, we can start a new segment on the show.

Josh Bretl:

If you guys could see the smile on

Josh Bretl:

his face occur again.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

Did that just make your day seem me smile?

Josh Bretl:

It did.

Josh Bretl:

Your dad's been in town for the last week and you're taking him

Josh Bretl:

to the airport this afternoon, I'm sure that has you down too.

Dave Schmidt:

It does have me down.

Dave Schmidt:

Did I tell you he officially requested to refer to him

Dave Schmidt:

as something different now?

Josh Bretl:

Are we only allowed to call him Big Mike?

Dave Schmidt:

He likes to now be called Cowboy

Dave Schmidt:

Mike from Colorado.

Josh Bretl:

Why cowboy Mike?

Dave Schmidt:

You know how us Americans, you watch a few

Dave Schmidt:

episodes of Yellowstone and start drinking a little bit of

Dave Schmidt:

bourbon, we think we're cowboys.

Dave Schmidt:

So that's what...

Josh Bretl:

Again, if we were a sports talk show, he wants his

Josh Bretl:

own name associated with him?

Dave Schmidt:

Absolutely.

Dave Schmidt:

To be fair, he showed up from O'Hare.

Dave Schmidt:

Carla picked him up when he came in wearing a

Dave Schmidt:

full-blown cowboy hat with a cow skull on the front.

Dave Schmidt:

I'm like, "Wow."

Josh Bretl:

He lives in Denver.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

It's not like he's in the Wild West.

Josh Bretl:

He's in Denver.

Dave Schmidt:

I mean, what are you got to do?

Dave Schmidt:

What you going to do?

Dave Schmidt:

We all have our personas.

Dave Schmidt:

That's it.

Dave Schmidt:

Cowboy Mike.

Josh Bretl:

Oh man.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

But you know what?

Dave Schmidt:

There are three things in life that cheer me up.

Dave Schmidt:

Pizza, family, Retirement Equals Freedom podcast recording.

Dave Schmidt:

Okay.

Dave Schmidt:

So Josh, if I remember correctly, you have a

Dave Schmidt:

nice little glow going on here, a nice little tan.

Dave Schmidt:

I haven't seen anything below the shirt, but I believe

Dave Schmidt:

you were just in the lovely city of San Francisco.

Josh Bretl:

I was.

Josh Bretl:

And that has nothing to do with the tan.

Josh Bretl:

The tan is all from when I've been back, but-

Dave Schmidt:

Oh, why?

Dave Schmidt:

You mean-

Josh Bretl:

Coaching soccer games.

Dave Schmidt:

And golfing.

Josh Bretl:

I didn't golf.

Dave Schmidt:

Oh, I thought you golfed.

Josh Bretl:

Oh, I did golf once.

Dave Schmidt:

I mini golfed.

Josh Bretl:

Oh yeah?

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

You got a tan from that?

Dave Schmidt:

It was actually the night it was like 59

Dave Schmidt:

degrees and everyone's bundled up and I'm wearing

Dave Schmidt:

shorts and a T-shirt.

Josh Bretl:

There is your weather.

Josh Bretl:

No.

Josh Bretl:

First week out of school, we took the kids

Josh Bretl:

out to San Francisco.

Josh Bretl:

I think I mentioned this in our last podcast.

Josh Bretl:

It was our very first vacation as a family that didn't revolve

Josh Bretl:

around a beach or a theme park.

Josh Bretl:

The kids loved it.

Josh Bretl:

They were rock stars.

Josh Bretl:

They loved San Francisco.

Josh Bretl:

I don't know if you've been out there to visit Alcatraz?

Dave Schmidt:

Yes.

Dave Schmidt:

We did a tour.

Dave Schmidt:

I was probably our kids' age.

Josh Bretl:

Okay.

Josh Bretl:

Well, it's one of those tours you take a boat ride out to

Josh Bretl:

the rock off of the shores of San Francisco, and you

Josh Bretl:

walk up to the jail and they give you this audio tour

Josh Bretl:

to wear around your head.

Josh Bretl:

And I was a little worried at how the kids would do.

Josh Bretl:

They rocked it, they just loved it.

Josh Bretl:

They didn't want to leave.

Josh Bretl:

They were listening to all the stories but

Josh Bretl:

it made me so excited.

Josh Bretl:

It was like, oh, this opens up a whole new world of

Josh Bretl:

vacation possibilities.

Josh Bretl:

And they were rock stars.

Josh Bretl:

They went on a three hour hike with us up

Josh Bretl:

in the Redwood Forest.

Josh Bretl:

They walked through Chinatown and they got to

Josh Bretl:

try some new food and they were really, really cool.

Josh Bretl:

But vacation Zach came out and we laughed because if

Josh Bretl:

we try to take his picture, if we're here we're like,

Josh Bretl:

"Zach, smile for a picture."

Josh Bretl:

No smile, just is goofy.

Josh Bretl:

Out there he doesn't stop smiling.

Josh Bretl:

You're like, "Zach, let me take your picture."

Josh Bretl:

He's like the best smile ever.

Josh Bretl:

So Missy and I'll look at our memories of our phones.

Josh Bretl:

We'll be like, "Oh, that must be on vacation

Josh Bretl:

because Zach's smiling."

Josh Bretl:

It was a great vacation.

Josh Bretl:

I know you missed me while I was gone.

Josh Bretl:

I think I mentioned that last time on the show that, that

Josh Bretl:

was the longest you and I have been apart in a year.

Dave Schmidt:

I know.

Dave Schmidt:

It's unfortunate that we're starting to do video because

Dave Schmidt:

people can see that I am...

Dave Schmidt:

Oh, I think I'm at my nine week mark since a haircut.

Dave Schmidt:

It is absolutely all over my ears and my neck and

Dave Schmidt:

it's so uncomfortable.

Dave Schmidt:

All I do is I think about, I'm so self-conscious about it.

Josh Bretl:

Is getting bigger.

Dave Schmidt:

It's huge.

Josh Bretl:

You can put product in there and it really goes.

Dave Schmidt:

I know.

Dave Schmidt:

I think tomorrow at one o'clock, I think I'm going to book an

Dave Schmidt:

appointment and then show up to the workshop with a new dew.

Dave Schmidt:

Josh, in our past, I've had some run-ins with annuities.

Josh Bretl:

You have?

Josh Bretl:

You've run into them.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

I don't know.

Dave Schmidt:

It just sounded like something that sounds like authority.

Dave Schmidt:

And so I'm like, "Okay, let's start off with that bad joke."

Josh Bretl:

Well, this is a topic that we've been wanting

Josh Bretl:

to do for a while and I've avoided it, not because I'm

Josh Bretl:

afraid of it, but because I don't think any one product or

Josh Bretl:

any one vehicle should get its own platform that's out there.

Josh Bretl:

Let me back that up and why I say that.

Dave Schmidt:

Back that thing up, would you?

Josh Bretl:

Retirement planning itself is a process.

Josh Bretl:

We've spent a lot of time talking about the process and

Josh Bretl:

how to think about it and the underlying what you should do.

Josh Bretl:

And we've never ever mentioned a product or

Josh Bretl:

a vehicle on this show.

Dave Schmidt:

:

Yeah, you're right.

Josh Bretl:

We never have.

Josh Bretl:

And I never wanted it to be that way.

Josh Bretl:

Because people that just mention product, and if you

Josh Bretl:

go to one of these workshops and they just talk about

Josh Bretl:

how the wonders of this product, they're salespeople.

Josh Bretl:

It gives our whole industry a bad name.

Josh Bretl:

And I never wanted to talk about that, but this is one of

Josh Bretl:

those vehicles that whenever I do recommend something, and by

Josh Bretl:

the time I am working with a client, making a recommendation,

Josh Bretl:

we have a great rapport.

Josh Bretl:

We've usually had three to five meetings, and I know

Josh Bretl:

them really well and there's a trust that's been built up.

Josh Bretl:

And when I make a recommendation to them, they almost

Josh Bretl:

never even think about it.

Josh Bretl:

They're just, "Yeah, if that's what you think, that's

Josh Bretl:

what we're going to do."

Josh Bretl:

And that's what I like.

Josh Bretl:

Now, this is one of those weird vehicles that people

Josh Bretl:

have heard about or they've read about, or it's something

Josh Bretl:

that triggers this, not in everybody, but in some people

Josh Bretl:

this response that is unnatural.

Josh Bretl:

I wanted to go through the annuity word because I am

Josh Bretl:

of the belief that no single investment or no single product

Josh Bretl:

where you can put your money is ever always good or always bad.

Josh Bretl:

If you ever think something is always good, no matter

Josh Bretl:

what, you got a problem.

Josh Bretl:

If you think something's always bad, no matter

Josh Bretl:

what, you got a problem.

Josh Bretl:

There are situations in different people's lives that

Josh Bretl:

everything can fit depending upon on where it goes.

Dave Schmidt:

You mentioned annuities.

Dave Schmidt:

It's like how I used to think about blue cheese and

Dave Schmidt:

peas and water chestnuts.

Dave Schmidt:

The idea of it's like ewe!

Josh Bretl:

But now I love, but food is different.

Josh Bretl:

Water chestnuts are just inherently bad.

Josh Bretl:

Whoever puts-

Dave Schmidt:

Right.

Dave Schmidt:

Those are still bad.

Dave Schmidt:

But blue cheese, delicious.

Josh Bretl:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

But I mean blue cheese and annuities,

Dave Schmidt:

there's a correlation there.

Josh Bretl:

Are we getting a peek into your DR2R on here?

Dave Schmidt:

No.

Dave Schmidt:

Oh, thank you for telling me.

Dave Schmidt:

You're trying to peek again, let me flip that back over.

Josh Bretl:

But I wanted to talk today a little bit about

Josh Bretl:

why we don't use annuities in different situations.

Dave Schmidt:

Now, just to set this up, we are planning a two

Dave Schmidt:

part series in this, right?

Josh Bretl:

We are.

Josh Bretl:

Yes.

Josh Bretl:

Today we're going to talk about all the things that

Josh Bretl:

people see online that say hey, why this is bad.

Josh Bretl:

And I'm not trying to defend it.

Josh Bretl:

For some people, annuities serve zero purpose in their

Josh Bretl:

portfolio, but there are some people that annuities can

Josh Bretl:

add a lot of value to it.

Josh Bretl:

So it really has to go with the whole process and your situation

Josh Bretl:

and things along those lines.

Josh Bretl:

So today I want to talk about some of the bad parts

Josh Bretl:

to it, but also reframe it a little bit for people who

Josh Bretl:

should be thinking about it a little bit differently.

Dave Schmidt:

Let's dig in baby.

Josh Bretl:

Al right.

Josh Bretl:

The first one is-

Dave Schmidt:

No, wait.

Dave Schmidt:

First, you're listing the reasons people typically

Dave Schmidt:

hate annuities or-

Josh Bretl:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

Hate them, and they should hate them for these reasons,

Josh Bretl:

but there's also reasons you should like them.

Josh Bretl:

So the first one is a lack of liquidity.

Josh Bretl:

So liquidity means how fast you can get access to your money.

Josh Bretl:

Now, annuities do provide a lot of benefits.

Josh Bretl:

There are benefits that people would love to have.

Josh Bretl:

There can be downside protection.

Josh Bretl:

There can be some guaranteed interest rates.

Josh Bretl:

There can be some income guarantees.

Josh Bretl:

There's things that people want.

Josh Bretl:

And in order for the insurance company to offer these,

Josh Bretl:

what they look for is they look for the ability to

Josh Bretl:

hold onto your money for a longer period of time.

Josh Bretl:

So liquidity comes into play.

Josh Bretl:

The shortest term might be like a three year liquidity, and

Josh Bretl:

you're not going to get as many bells and whistles as you will

Josh Bretl:

with something that has a 10.

Josh Bretl:

I mean, the longest term I've seen is 16 years.

Josh Bretl:

16 years seems ridiculous.

Josh Bretl:

Who wants to tie their money up for 16 years?

Josh Bretl:

And when I say it like that, that does sound pretty awful.

Josh Bretl:

But when you think about it as part of a process, if you're

Josh Bretl:

looking for some of these benefits that come into play

Josh Bretl:

and you have enough other money in other areas doing other

Josh Bretl:

things, for a lot of people, the liquidity may not matter.

Josh Bretl:

I do admit you have to take the liquidity under-

Dave Schmidt:

Advisement.

Josh Bretl:

Advisement.

Josh Bretl:

And you have to think about it.

Josh Bretl:

Your hand signals there.

Josh Bretl:

But just because it's illiquid doesn't make it necessarily bad.

Josh Bretl:

There's a lot of other illiquid assets out there.

Dave Schmidt:

Is that a word, illiquid?

Josh Bretl:

Yeah, it is.

Dave Schmidt:

Is it really?

Josh Bretl:

Lack of liquidity.

Josh Bretl:

Illiquid.

Dave Schmidt:

Wow.

Dave Schmidt:

So I said advisement, you said illiquid.

Dave Schmidt:

You know what I'm starting to sense here?

Dave Schmidt:

And I'm totally interrupting you.

Dave Schmidt:

You ever watched Pee-wee's Playhouse back in the day?

Josh Bretl:

Oh yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

As a word of the day?

Josh Bretl:

Word of the day.

Dave Schmidt:

We're going to-

Josh Bretl:

We're all go crazy?

Dave Schmidt:

We're going to implement that.

Josh Bretl:

Yes.

Josh Bretl:

So liquidity is an issue.

Josh Bretl:

I'm not saying it's not an issue, but it's not

Josh Bretl:

something you can't overcome.

Josh Bretl:

The next one, and I see this scares a lot of

Josh Bretl:

people away, is complexity.

Josh Bretl:

We talked about, on the last episode, everyone's

Josh Bretl:

looking for simplicity.

Josh Bretl:

Everyone wants it to be simple and easy to understand.

Josh Bretl:

There's a lot that can be very complex inside some

Josh Bretl:

of these annuity contracts.

Josh Bretl:

If you don't understand it and how it applies to

Josh Bretl:

your situation, I agree.

Josh Bretl:

You should not do it.

Josh Bretl:

But that complexity can also add benefits to it.

Josh Bretl:

Ask as many questions as you can, understand

Josh Bretl:

it as best as you can.

Josh Bretl:

And if it's too complex for you, no, don't do it.

Josh Bretl:

But if it's simple enough to be able to be used into

Josh Bretl:

your situation and you know how it's going to apply for

Josh Bretl:

your personal process, just because something's complexed

Josh Bretl:

doesn't mean it shouldn't be applied to your situation.

Dave Schmidt:

Just like I am a complex individual,

Dave Schmidt:

but you understand me.

Josh Bretl:

I do.

Josh Bretl:

It's really scary.

Dave Schmidt:

Mm-hmm.

Dave Schmidt:

Carry, on my friend.

Josh Bretl:

Like an annuity, I understand it.

Josh Bretl:

Still scary too.

Josh Bretl:

This one gets a bad rap quite a bit.

Josh Bretl:

And this has to do...

Josh Bretl:

It says high fees.

Josh Bretl:

Now when we say high fees, it's specifically talking

Josh Bretl:

about one type of annuity.

Dave Schmidt:

Ain't nobody got cash for that.

Josh Bretl:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

We haven't used that drop in a while.

Dave Schmidt:

I know.

Dave Schmidt:

I've heard of the word fee.

Dave Schmidt:

Might as well drop that though.

Josh Bretl:

There's a type of annuity out there

Josh Bretl:

called a variable annuity.

Josh Bretl:

We're going to talk more about that in the next episode.

Josh Bretl:

And these were developed, I believe in the '80s sometime.

Josh Bretl:

They were built around a mutual fund.

Josh Bretl:

A mutual fund has its own fees, variable annuity

Josh Bretl:

adds fees on top of that.

Josh Bretl:

There may not be a reason for it.

Josh Bretl:

So some people were sold these annuities, which were

Josh Bretl:

nothing more than the same mutual funds you could have

Josh Bretl:

gotten outside the annuity with higher fees in it.

Josh Bretl:

That's where that gets the bad wrap and effect if anywhere

Josh Bretl:

gets the bad wrap, that's really necessary, that is it.

Josh Bretl:

Hands down.

Dave Schmidt:

Fees.

Josh Bretl:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

But there's other types of annuities that have

Josh Bretl:

no additional fees.

Josh Bretl:

The fixed annuities that you see, that we'll talk about

Josh Bretl:

next time, they're no real really different than a CD

Josh Bretl:

with an insurance company.

Josh Bretl:

So CDs are through banks, annuities are through

Josh Bretl:

insurance companies.

Josh Bretl:

CDs for most people have no fees built into them.

Josh Bretl:

Those same annuities have no fees built into them.

Josh Bretl:

So we want to think about that in the same way.

Josh Bretl:

Now, but fees is something you want to take into consideration.

Josh Bretl:

And they don't all have super high fees, but some of them do.

Josh Bretl:

It's a decision making process that has to go into it and how

Josh Bretl:

it fits into your situation.

Josh Bretl:

Make sense?

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

Josh, of course it does.

Josh Bretl:

I mean, you're an expert at this stuff.

Josh Bretl:

There are some misleading sales practices that go into it too.

Josh Bretl:

Some of these annuities do pay a high upfront commission

Josh Bretl:

to the person who sells it.

Josh Bretl:

They will sell it at all cost.

Josh Bretl:

They don't care about the person they're selling it

Josh Bretl:

to, they just want that money that comes in the door.

Josh Bretl:

They don't care about how it fits into your situation.

Josh Bretl:

I have seen numerous people that have come into my office,

Josh Bretl:

they've sat with somebody else, they put them in an annuity

Josh Bretl:

that has zero purpose for what they're trying to achieve.

Josh Bretl:

And we have to fix it in some way, shape or form.

Josh Bretl:

So again, I don't necessarily think annuities are bad,

Josh Bretl:

but they have to be used for your specific situation.

Josh Bretl:

People get mad at, there's high commissions.

Josh Bretl:

Well, they're not high necessarily.

Josh Bretl:

In fact, if I were to use an annuity for one of my clients,

Josh Bretl:

we actually get paid less over the long term on an annuity

Josh Bretl:

than we do when we manage their assets, but there is payment

Josh Bretl:

as that comes into play.

Josh Bretl:

What you want to do is you want to make sure that the

Josh Bretl:

person that's recommending it to you does not push

Josh Bretl:

it above everything else just because of that.

Dave Schmidt:

Red flag.

Josh Bretl:

Red flag, hands down.

Josh Bretl:

I always tell our clients, "Look, I think this fits best

Josh Bretl:

in your situation, but if you hate it, we have other

Josh Bretl:

options that we can go to.

Josh Bretl:

And it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

Josh Bretl:

I'm only going to recommend what I think is absolutely

Josh Bretl:

best in your situation."

Dave Schmidt:

Fiduciary.

Josh Bretl:

Yeah, it's a huge deal.

Josh Bretl:

So they better understand exactly what

Josh Bretl:

you're getting into.

Josh Bretl:

The last one that I want to bring up and reasons that

Josh Bretl:

people really dislike them, this isn't brought up but

Josh Bretl:

it probably should be, is it does reduce some of your tax

Josh Bretl:

options that are out there.

Alex:

Hashtag tax nerd.

Josh Bretl:

But people don't think about taxes

Josh Bretl:

with annuities, and with annuities, what we have to

Josh Bretl:

worry about, is how that money is going to come out when you

Josh Bretl:

start taking the money out.

Josh Bretl:

There's two things I want to think about here.

Josh Bretl:

First off, we've talked a lot about Roth conversions.

Josh Bretl:

Sometimes annuities will make it harder to do Roth conversions if

Josh Bretl:

you use them inside of an IRA.

Josh Bretl:

It's not impossible.

Josh Bretl:

You have to structure them a little bit differently, but you

Josh Bretl:

want to make sure that whoever you're working with knows how to

Josh Bretl:

do that, how to structure those.

Josh Bretl:

The second is how annuities are taxed when

Josh Bretl:

they're not in an IRA.

Josh Bretl:

We had an episode all on the non-qualified accounts.

Josh Bretl:

And those are, you have capital gains and interest in dividends.

Josh Bretl:

Well qualified dividends and capital gains actually

Josh Bretl:

have a lower tax rate than annuity distributions, IRA

Josh Bretl:

distributions, things along those lines for most people.

Josh Bretl:

So what we worry about is people who shove a bunch of money into

Josh Bretl:

their non-qualified annuity.

Josh Bretl:

When they go to take that money out, there could be a

Josh Bretl:

tax hit that they weren't aware of, they weren't planning on.

Josh Bretl:

Not saying don't do it.

Josh Bretl:

It has to be taken into consideration though.

Josh Bretl:

As you're doing that, make sure you take those taxes

Josh Bretl:

into understanding on how they get distributed.

Josh Bretl:

And actually different annuities will have different taxation

Josh Bretl:

of how the money comes out.

Josh Bretl:

That is something that it's not talked about too often, but

Josh Bretl:

it's something that you should be looking at if you're looking

Josh Bretl:

at purchasing an annuity.

Josh Bretl:

Make sense?

Dave Schmidt:

Total.

Josh Bretl:

Now, Erin wrote in the notes here something

Josh Bretl:

down at the bottom, if someone is looking for a spot to put

Josh Bretl:

their money, there's three main areas that they look for.

Josh Bretl:

They're looking for liquidity, they're looking for growth and

Josh Bretl:

they're looking for safety.

Josh Bretl:

And I always say, for most people, any real spot

Josh Bretl:

you can stick your money, we can almost always get

Josh Bretl:

you two out of the three.

Josh Bretl:

We can get you liquidity and growth.

Josh Bretl:

We can get you safety.

Josh Bretl:

It depends on different things that you're looking for, for

Josh Bretl:

the purpose of that money.

Josh Bretl:

So this goes back to understanding exactly what that

Josh Bretl:

money is going to be used for.

Josh Bretl:

And then is an annuity a good fit?

Josh Bretl:

Is it not a good fit?

Josh Bretl:

That is totally going to be dependent upon

Josh Bretl:

your specific situation.

Dave Schmidt:

That word has tripped you up in the past.

Josh Bretl:

You see, I slowed down on that?

Dave Schmidt:

You made a concerted effort.

Dave Schmidt:

Another good word, concerted to-

Josh Bretl:

We are full of big words today.

Dave Schmidt:

I mean, I'm not going to say that we're

Dave Schmidt:

like reading Thesaurus' before we record but we

Dave Schmidt:

are recording, reading.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah, we're super smart.

Josh Bretl:

I think that whole thing should stay in.

Josh Bretl:

That was fantastic.

Josh Bretl:

But I hope you understood a little bit about where

Josh Bretl:

people are coming from and they have a valid point,

Josh Bretl:

but don't stop there.

Josh Bretl:

You have to understand how it fits for your

Josh Bretl:

specific situation.

Josh Bretl:

And next week, we're going to talk about the different

Josh Bretl:

types and when we do use them, why we use them and

Josh Bretl:

why we should think about it.

Josh Bretl:

So again, nothing's inherently good or inherently bad at all

Josh Bretl:

times but it matters how it applies to your situation.

Josh Bretl:

How was that?

Dave Schmidt:

For us?

Dave Schmidt:

That was short and sweet.

Josh Bretl:

I'm a little worried about your DR2R.

Dave Schmidt:

You should not be worried about my DR2R.

Josh Bretl:

I won't get too worried here.

Dave Schmidt:

It's always very on point.

Dave Schmidt:

I didn't see you for a while while you're in San Francisco,

Dave Schmidt:

so I'm starting to kind of forget some things about you.

Dave Schmidt:

So I think it's a good time for...

Dave Schmidt:

[Singing].

Dave Schmidt:

Chickity.

Dave Schmidt:

Oh yeah.

Josh Bretl:

I'm officially running out of bird sounds.

Dave Schmidt:

That's a repeat.

Josh Bretl:

Yeah, it is.

Dave Schmidt:

:

That's unacceptable.

Josh Bretl:

I'm sorry.

Josh Bretl:

There's only so many bird sounds I got in me.

Dave Schmidt:

All right.

Dave Schmidt:

I'm going to get you a bird sound book.

Josh Bretl:

You know what I'm going to do?

Josh Bretl:

I'm just going to download a bird song to our machine

Josh Bretl:

here, whatever this thing is, and we'll play

Josh Bretl:

it every now and then.

Dave Schmidt:

I'm good with that.

Josh Bretl:

All right.

Dave Schmidt:

Cool.

Dave Schmidt:

All right.

Dave Schmidt:

What you got for me Josh?

Josh Bretl:

So this question comes from an

Josh Bretl:

idea I had yesterday with Brian in our office.

Josh Bretl:

He was saying Southwest just put all their flights

Josh Bretl:

on sale for 40% off if you travel after April or

Josh Bretl:

August 15th or something.

Josh Bretl:

His wife called him and said, "Hey, would you like

Josh Bretl:

to go visit your friend in Arizona for a weekend?

Josh Bretl:

Flights are really cheap right now."

Josh Bretl:

And I thought wow, that's really cool.

Josh Bretl:

That's really nice of his wife to do that.

Josh Bretl:

And then I got to thinking Dave, if money was not an

Josh Bretl:

option and you could fly anywhere tomorrow, go on

Josh Bretl:

vacation, where would you go?

Dave Schmidt:

Scandinavia.

Dave Schmidt:

So I'm going to go with Sweden.

Josh Bretl:

Sweden.

Dave Schmidt:

Mm-hmm.

Josh Bretl:

Why?

Dave Schmidt:

Because they're my people.

Dave Schmidt:

I've always wanted to visit up there.

Dave Schmidt:

I mean, I've never left the country except, well

Dave Schmidt:

no, Mexico, it's not true.

Dave Schmidt:

But never left North America.

Dave Schmidt:

Sweden just looks really beautiful.

Dave Schmidt:

And my aunt was there taking pictures.

Dave Schmidt:

She went on this just her by herself.

Dave Schmidt:

She stayed right on some fjords in these little homes.

Dave Schmidt:

And I just, oh it was majestic.

Dave Schmidt:

It was amazing.

Josh Bretl:

Oh, that's cool.

Dave Schmidt:

And so my grandma's parents

Dave Schmidt:

are from there.

Josh Bretl:

You're Swedish?

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

I'm 25% Swedish.

Josh Bretl:

Man, I didn't know that about you.

Dave Schmidt:

I know.

Dave Schmidt:

That's why we're BFFs.

Josh Bretl:

Woohoo.

Josh Bretl:

Would you take Carla with you?

Dave Schmidt:

Absolutely.

Dave Schmidt:

I would take Carla and Landon.

Dave Schmidt:

Oh yeah, for sure.

Dave Schmidt:

And maybe stop at Ikea.

Josh Bretl:

Just because.

Dave Schmidt:

Just because yeah.

Josh Bretl:

Cowboy Mike loves Ikea.

Dave Schmidt:

Sure does.

Dave Schmidt:

Flip it around, reverse it.

Dave Schmidt:

How about you, Josh?

Dave Schmidt:

Tomorrow, money's not an object.

Dave Schmidt:

Where would you guys go?

Josh Bretl:

Well, I'm not taking the kids on this one.

Josh Bretl:

This would be just Missy and I.

Josh Bretl:

And we have been talking about this forever, you

Josh Bretl:

know our love of eating.

Dave Schmidt:

Your love of eating.

Josh Bretl:

My love of eating.

Josh Bretl:

We want to go to Spain and eat our way through Spain.

Josh Bretl:

I have heard Spain has some of the best food in the world.

Josh Bretl:

Supposed to be beautiful.

Josh Bretl:

I love going to Europe.

Josh Bretl:

We've never been to Spain.

Dave Schmidt:

That surprises me.

Josh Bretl:

And I think it would be a lot of fun to go out there.

Dave Schmidt:

Can I go instead of your kids?

Dave Schmidt:

I'll bring you to Sweden with me.

Josh Bretl:

You'll have to convince Missy.

Dave Schmidt:

Okay.

Dave Schmidt:

She loves me.

Josh Bretl:

She does.

Dave Schmidt:

Cool.

Dave Schmidt:

I like it.

Dave Schmidt:

Sweden and Spain.

Dave Schmidt:

I mean, they can't be that far from each other.

Josh Bretl:

I mean, look on the globe.

Josh Bretl:

It looks so close.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

You have a globe sitting around here, by the way, or?

Dave Schmidt:

Oh, boy.

Dave Schmidt:

Anything else we're missing today?

Josh Bretl:

I mean, you're Swedish.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

Big time Swedish.

Dave Schmidt:

Well, hello there friends, this is Dave.

Dave Schmidt:

I am having a break here at the, uh, FSR Family Room,

Dave Schmidt:

and I'd like to come at you with a little correction

Dave Schmidt:

from today's episode.

Dave Schmidt:

So, here's the thing.

Dave Schmidt:

Uh, Josh asked me where I would like to go visit if

Dave Schmidt:

money was not an issue, and I mentioned Sweden.

Dave Schmidt:

And while Sweden sounds like a lovely place.

Dave Schmidt:

And while I do adore Swedish people, I'm not Swedish.

Dave Schmidt:

I'm actually Norwegian.

Dave Schmidt:

My aunt didn't visit Sweden, she visited Norway.

Dave Schmidt:

My ancestors?

Dave Schmidt:

Norwegian.

Dave Schmidt:

I dropped the ball big time on that.

Dave Schmidt:

Josh, I had to pick him off the floor.

Dave Schmidt:

He was laughing so hard at me.

Dave Schmidt:

So, hey, I'm humbly coming to you with that correction.

Dave Schmidt:

Not like any of you care, but look man, I gotta

Dave Schmidt:

admit to my mistakes.

Dave Schmidt:

I'm Norwegian.

Dave Schmidt:

And with that, enjoy the rest of the show.

Dave Schmidt:

Dave relates to retirees.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

Dave relates to retirees.

Dave Schmidt:

Josh, why are you worried about this one?

Josh Bretl:

Well, because you seem giddy about it

Josh Bretl:

since before we even started.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

Well, I made an effort to go back to a very specific

Dave Schmidt:

story instead of just rambling about you buying me stuff.

Dave Schmidt:

So when you said annuities and how a lot of people

Dave Schmidt:

hate them, mostly because they're just misunderstood or

Dave Schmidt:

misused in their portfolio.

Dave Schmidt:

I thought about a time back in high school where our

Dave Schmidt:

good friend, Kevin Collins.

Josh Bretl:

Oh Kevin, we haven't talked about him before.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

Good Kevin.

Dave Schmidt:

Remember he text us when we were at breakfast the other night?

Josh Bretl:

Uh-huh.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

So I've been thinking about him.

Dave Schmidt:

But he would drive us around and in, we believe it was

Dave Schmidt:

probably a Chevy Blazer.

Dave Schmidt:

He would drive in-

Josh Bretl:

major Mark will correct us.

Dave Schmidt:

Major Mark.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah, Major Tom.

Dave Schmidt:

So Kevin would be driving, and it'd be me and Vince in the car.

Dave Schmidt:

And I guess you said you do remember some of these times.

Josh Bretl:

A couple times, not as often as you guys would go.

Dave Schmidt:

Sure.

Dave Schmidt:

So we called these a drive-through shenanigans.

Dave Schmidt:

Kevin would pull up to a fast food restaurant,

Dave Schmidt:

Wendy's was one of our favorites, and he would order.

Dave Schmidt:

But he wouldn't just order normally.

Dave Schmidt:

He would say something like, "Hey yeah, can we get

Dave Schmidt:

four bacon cheeseburgers, three [Drive-through

Dave Schmidt:

shenanigans mumbling] and then two milkshakes?"

Dave Schmidt:

And they'd be like, "I'm sorry, what was the second thing?"

Dave Schmidt:

He'd be like, "Oh, we just need three [Drive-through

Dave Schmidt:

shenanigans mumbling] and then a couple of milkshakes."

Dave Schmidt:

And there would always be a pause.

Dave Schmidt:

And I would always be sitting behind him, and the veins on

Dave Schmidt:

his neck were popping because he'd be holding in his laughter.

Dave Schmidt:

We would all be hands on our mouth.

Dave Schmidt:

We thought we were the funniest people ever.

Dave Schmidt:

He would just order [Drive-through shenanigans

Dave Schmidt:

mumbling] and nobody would understand what

Dave Schmidt:

he is talking about.

Dave Schmidt:

I he was always just misunderstood.

Dave Schmidt:

That's just what I thought.

Dave Schmidt:

So in this particular example Josh, the sweet innocent Wendy's

Dave Schmidt:

employees who misheard and misunderstood Kevin were like a

Dave Schmidt:

lot of us out there who we hear the word annuities we're like,

Dave Schmidt:

"What the heck's an annuity?

Dave Schmidt:

I don't want that in my portfolio."

Dave Schmidt:

They hear annuity, they might as well be hearing [Drive-through

Dave Schmidt:

shenanigans mumbling].

Dave Schmidt:

They don't know what it is.

Dave Schmidt:

Now, I'm definitely not saying that you are responsible

Dave Schmidt:

for that confusion, but you have this deep...

Dave Schmidt:

See, you're starting to think about your full house

Dave Schmidt:

moment here and I love it.

Dave Schmidt:

But Josh, you are here to help clear up the misunderstandings

Dave Schmidt:

that are annuities.

Dave Schmidt:

I'm pretty sure I just nailed it.

Dave Schmidt:

So instead of a mic drop, I'm going to do a pen drop.

Dave Schmidt:

I just got a pen in my pants.

Dave Schmidt:

I got to wash them now.

Josh Bretl:

It's that one time a year.

Dave Schmidt:

One time.

Josh Bretl:

So first off-

Dave Schmidt:

First off, when we go for lunch later, can

Dave Schmidt:

we get some [Drive-through shenanigans mumbling]?

Josh Bretl:

You worked in the restaurant industry.

Dave Schmidt:

Mm-hmm.

Josh Bretl:

How mad would you be if Kevin came

Josh Bretl:

in and did that to you?

Dave Schmidt:

I would absolutely love it.

Dave Schmidt:

But no, if I just took my job too seriously, I'd be furious.

Dave Schmidt:

Yes.

Josh Bretl:

And I understand why people who work in the service

Josh Bretl:

industry hate the public.

Josh Bretl:

Because of Kevin.

Dave Schmidt:

Oh, sure.

Dave Schmidt:

So just get a mental image of his veins popping.

Dave Schmidt:

He was trying so hard not to...

Dave Schmidt:

Oh, it was so good.

Josh Bretl:

When you think about it's truly innocent

Josh Bretl:

as it comes in there.

Josh Bretl:

There was nothing bad that happened there, but I do see

Josh Bretl:

why they would dislike that.

Josh Bretl:

Now, unlike the annuities that I think are misunderstood,

Josh Bretl:

because people aren't taking the time to truly understand how

Josh Bretl:

they fit into their situation, Kevin was intentionally

Josh Bretl:

misleading these people.

Dave Schmidt:

I see.

Josh Bretl:

Where I'm going with this.

Josh Bretl:

So there's a little bit of a divergence there.

Josh Bretl:

But then I got back into, I was thinking about why I talked

Josh Bretl:

about one of those issues was the misleading sales practices.

Josh Bretl:

Kevin was using misleading sales practices against

Josh Bretl:

these poor, innocent Wendy's drive-through workers.

Josh Bretl:

When they took a step back, and they could still dislike

Josh Bretl:

Kevin because of him being a high school age, little punk.

Josh Bretl:

But in the long run, they probably got a smile out

Josh Bretl:

of it, I would think.

Josh Bretl:

I don't know about that.

Josh Bretl:

But as you look at the innocence as it comes into

Josh Bretl:

play, I hope that Wendy's drive-through person eventually

Josh Bretl:

got to smile or at least roll their eyes at it.

Josh Bretl:

There is some misunderstanding there.

Josh Bretl:

And I feel like I should tie this together a

Josh Bretl:

little bit better somehow.

Josh Bretl:

And I'm trying to see where I should go with this.

Dave Schmidt:

I think it's pretty good.

Dave Schmidt:

I think they ended up having the last laugh because all things

Dave Schmidt:

being equal, Kevin did have nipple rings in high school.

Dave Schmidt:

So they did win that one.

Josh Bretl:

What was that?

Dave Schmidt:

I mean, it's true.

Dave Schmidt:

It's a fact.

Josh Bretl:

I feel like this full house moment didn't

Josh Bretl:

connect the way it should have.

Dave Schmidt:

No.

Dave Schmidt:

Because I think when I so eloquently tie things

Dave Schmidt:

together for you, you don't have much work to do.

Josh Bretl:

I mean, I should have just shut up and just

Josh Bretl:

said, Dave's pen drop worked.

Dave Schmidt:

Or maybe we have Kevin on the show to

Dave Schmidt:

explain his side of the story.

Josh Bretl:

Will we understand him?

Dave Schmidt:

Sure.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah, he's so much more mature now.

Josh Bretl:

He is one of those guys that you look back and

Josh Bretl:

he's super successful right now.

Josh Bretl:

You go, "Man, how is he successful?"

Josh Bretl:

But it's it.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Dave Schmidt:

Annuities part one.

Dave Schmidt:

Annuities part two, we have people outside waiting to hear

Dave Schmidt:

what you have to say about annuities on the next episode.

Josh Bretl:

I hope Dave, it goes over as well

Josh Bretl:

as you think it will.

Dave Schmidt:

I think it's going to go over great.

Dave Schmidt:

And hey, if not, we can always go mess with some employees at

Dave Schmidt:

the Wendy's down the street.

Josh Bretl:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

Order some [Drive-through shenanigans mumbling].

Dave Schmidt:

Try it.

Dave Schmidt:

I want you to try it.

Dave Schmidt:

Have your hand at it.

Dave Schmidt:

No?

Josh Bretl:

No.

Josh Bretl:

You and I were much more innocent.

Josh Bretl:

Do you remember our wave to the mailman game or the

Josh Bretl:

wave to strangers game?

Dave Schmidt:

But we would honk first.

Josh Bretl:

We'd honk first and we would wave.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah.

Josh Bretl:

With a friendly smiley wave.

Josh Bretl:

And we just wanted to see if people would wave back to us.

Dave Schmidt:

And we kept tally.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah, absolutely.

Josh Bretl:

And we said, who would always wave back?

Josh Bretl:

Mailmen.

Dave Schmidt:

Oh, mailmen.

Josh Bretl:

Mailmen would always wave back to us.

Dave Schmidt:

Yeah, that's true.

Josh Bretl:

I felt like that was more innocent

Josh Bretl:

than [Drive-through shenanigans mumbling].

Josh Bretl:

It was still innocent, but...

Dave Schmidt:

Still at good times.

Dave Schmidt:

All right.

Dave Schmidt:

You know what, let's get going here because we

Dave Schmidt:

need to start planning for the next episode, Josh.

Josh Bretl:

With that, David...

Dave Schmidt:

On behalf of Cowboy Mike, who

Dave Schmidt:

cannot be with us today.

Josh Bretl:

Bye.

Dave Schmidt:

Bye.

Josh Bretl:

[Drive-through shenanigans mumbling]

Dave Schmidt:

[Drive-through shenanigans mumbling]

Alex:

Hashtag tax nerd.

Dave Schmidt:

FSR Wealth Management is a registered

Dave Schmidt:

investment advisor located in Elmhurst, Illinois.

Dave Schmidt:

Information and opinions contained in this audio

Dave Schmidt:

have been arrived at by FSR Wealth advisors.

Dave Schmidt:

All information herein is for informational purposes

Dave Schmidt:

and should not be construed as investment advice.

Dave Schmidt:

It does not constitute an offer, a solicitation or recommendation

Dave Schmidt:

to purchase any security.

Dave Schmidt:

FSR is not providing legal, tax, accounting, or financial

Dave Schmidt:

planning advice in this audio.

Dave Schmidt:

These views are as of the date of this publication

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