In this episode, Loral sits down with Bev Ottone to expose what’s really happening behind the scenes in small business fraud prevention, and why most owners don’t catch fraud until it’s too late.

Bev shares real examples of fraud she’s uncovered, including payroll tricks (ghost employees and reimbursements), vendor fraud inside bookkeeping software, ACH changes, check theft, and even points scams. You’ll learn the most common red flags, why “trust but verify” matters, and how better systems, separation of duties, and weekly review habits strengthen small business fraud prevention.

If you’ve ever wondered how to hire a bookkeeper without handing over “the keys to the kingdom,” this small business fraud prevention conversation is a must-listen.

Loral's Takeaways:

1. Bev's Journey and Initial Experience (02:07)
2. Bev's Courses and Motivation (03:00)
3. Importance of Accurate Bookkeeping (05:22)
4. Fraud Prevention and Detection (06:47)
5. Vendor Fraud and Security Measures (12:17)
6. Immediate Response to Fraud (19:05)
7. Course Details and Final Advice (23:04)

Bev Ottone Fraud Course: https://askbookkeepingcoach.com/

Meet Loral Langemeier:

Loral Langemeier is a money expert, sought-after speaker, entrepreneurial thought leader, and best-selling author of five books.

Her goal: to change the conversations people have about money worldwide and empower people to become millionaires.

The CEO and Founder of Live Out Loud, Inc. – a multinational organization — Loral relentlessly and candidly shares her best advice without hesitation or apology. What sets her apart from other wealth experts is her innate ability to recognize and acknowledge the skills & talents of people, inspiring them to generate wealth.

She has created, nurtured, and perfected a 3-5 year strategy to make millions for the “Average Jill and Joe.” To date, she and her team have served thousands of individuals worldwide and created hundreds of millionaires through wealth-building education keynotes, workshops, products, events, programs, and coaching services.

Loral is truly dedicated to helping men and women, from all walks of life, to become millionaires AND be able to enjoy time with their families.

She is living proof that anyone can have the life of their dreams through hard work, persistence, and getting things done in the face of opposition. As a single mother of two children, she is redefining the possibility for women to have it all and raise their children in an entrepreneurial and financially literate environment.

Links and Resources:

Ask Loral App: https://apple.co/3eIgGcX

Loral on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/askloral/

Loral on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/lorallive/videos

Loral on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorallangemeier/

Money Rules: https://integratedwealthsystems.com/money-rules/

Millionaire Maker Store: https://millionairemakerstore.com/

Real Money Talks Podcast: https://integratedwealthsystems.com/podcast/

Integrated Wealth Systems: https://integratedwealthsystems.com/

Affiliate Sign-Up: https://integratedwealthsystems.com/affiliates

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Announcer,

welcome to Real Money Talks, real strategies from the money makers and the world changers that you can use to make millions, keep those millions, multiply your wealth and build your team. Here's your host, author of five New York Times best sellers, money expert on Dr Phil CNN, CNBC, the street

TV, Fox News and the view. Laurel langmeyer, hey,

this is Laurel. Welcome back to Laurel's row. Money talks a podcast about money, how we make it, how we keep it, how we invest it, and how to use a team. And every week, every Friday, my podcast comes out, make sure you click that subscription and the notification button. So every

Friday morning, you get a new podcast and listen to it. The whole thing, I bring on interviews for the most part. Every once in a while, I'll do some content by myself, but mostly I bring on interviews because I love entrepreneurs. I love how they make money. It's fascinating to watch the

eclectic backgrounds of these people and how they became very successful. So Bev, a tone, is with me today. She's from Canada, migrated to our great country of America. And not that Canada's bad, but Georgia is better anyway. So Bev became a big table client, and I was so impressed with her curriculum

design and background. She's a bookkeeper of over 30 years, well, well over a half million dollars in sales. Which most of you bookkeepers out there? Are you thinking about being a bookkeeper? Most of you probably struggle to make 100 so Bev, welcome. Thank you. Talk a little bit about your background

so somebody's not gone to college, didn't get a finance degree, an accounting degree, again, QuickBooks training is not a bookkeeper. That's just training software. So talk a little bit about your background.

So I was really lucky. I started off in hotels, working in the accounting offices. I had some great mentors that really took me underneath their wing and were patient with me and taught me everything I needed to know. I have one mentor he used to tell me I was like a dog with a bone.

Once I had a question, I wouldn't let go until I figured it out and I understood it completely. So if you want to work hard and you're willing to learn and listen, you can do anything. What were the decisions?

Was it just when you went to work for the hotel? Is that like brought you into the accounting department, or before that, did you love bookkeeping and accounting?

What really got? No, I literally was in the hotel. I had done the books for my student council in high school, and that was all the experience I had when I started and started in the hotels in the accounting department.

And so let's make I commented earlier on. A lot of people who go to intuit will look at QuickBooks training and all of a sudden call themselves a bookkeeper. Themselves a bookkeeper. Yes, let's clarify

that, yeah, all that, all that training does is teaches you how to use the software. It doesn't teach you any of the theory behind bookkeeping. Doesn't teach you any of the rules for tax returns, for the IRS, none of that kind of stuff. You have to go out and learn that

information. And the best way to do it is using a mentor.

I would totally agree, as most of you know, at integrated wealth systems, we mentor, we coach, we mastermind, you to pieces, and you have two courses that you've designed over the course, in addition to your your bookkeeping company, which is a fraud course for business owners

and just individuals, and then a finance course for non finance business owners, which is most of you out there. Okay, if you're a chiropractor, a doctor, you own a hair salon, you own a dog walking business, you own whatever you own. Most of you have not been financially trained. You don't know a P and

L balance sheet, cash flow, all that. So what inspired those two courses as you got started.

So the biggest thing for me, I see books coming all the time to me from people who didn't know what they were doing, and they're an absolute mess. A lot of the times they'll get thrown at me from a CPA who they get the books, I say books from the business owner, and they can't even do a tax return

because the information is just not there. So it's really important that people know how to read a profit and loss, how to understand a balance sheet, all of that kind of information, to be able to make good decisions, to run their businesses better. And for the fraud, I'm just tired of seeing

fraud. I see it everywhere all the time. In the past year, I've found over $5 million in fraud on small businesses, and it breaks my heart. So really, what I want to do, if I can help even one business owner not be a victim of fraud or make better business decisions and become successful as a result, that's

really what I want to do. That's what drives me. Yeah.

So I was so impressed with her, not only success as a bookkeeper, and then looking at these two curriculum courses that she's been built, and I tease you, I say, you built it. They're not coming. Yes. So we have now formally partnered, yesterday, formed a company, just like I

tell all of you to do, if a new venture comes, you form a company. You get a database. She's already had a database. So we have the two engines that drive this machine, and we're going to be bringing the fraud. Course, live first. But before we go there, I do want to I want to poke at the finance for non

finance folks and that training we're going to be doing. So mark your calendars. Make sure you pay attention. Ask bookkeeping coach.com. Is the brand name of our new company, and most of you can put in the comments below. Don't know finance and you trust your bookkeeper. Let's stand there for just a moment, because

I always say, you know, bad data in, I'll say it nicely. I say it a little differently. Bad data in is bad data out, which means, if you want a better tax return, it starts with tracking, bookkeeping, absolutely and so just talk forever, as long as you want couple minutes about that, because it's critical.

Yeah, there's so many things that are deductible, but if they're not put in your bookkeeping software properly, your CPA doesn't even know they're there, and so they just get bypassed, or things get miscategorized. I mean, a perfect example, just a simple thing is, if you travel and you

have meals and entertainment, 100% of that is you can write off. If you're at home and you take a client out for dinner, you can only write off 50% of that. And if you don't categorize them separately and break them out separately, your CPA doesn't know that this amount should be 100%

deductible, but this amount is only 50 so they'll throw it all in the 50% and right there, you've lost a bunch of deductions. So simple things like that, that if you don't know, I always say you don't know what you don't know, and the only way to find out is by learning, asking questions,

being curious.

Let's move to fraud, because I know you're going to tell story after story, and start with just the use of cash. You know, my YouTube channel, which, by the way, if you guys aren't subscribed and click that notification button on my YouTube channel, it's Laura Langmuir, The Millionaire

maker. And on my YouTube channel, I talk a lot about the use of debit cards and credit cards, and my whole theme is, put the debit cards away. It's attached to your bank account, absolutely. So talk about the cash portion, because I don't talk a lot of my channels or about just the use of cash. But

when it comes to bookkeeping, and you have multiple companies, cash creates a disaster. Absolutely, tax return.

Yes, cash is so hard to track, there's very little backup documentation to be able to use to make sure that you're recording it properly, you're reimbursing it properly. And it's one of the easiest things for somebody to walk out the door with, and you never know where it is. So absolutely, get

away from cash. Not only can you earn points on your credit cards that you can then use for personal stuff, you just got to make sure that you can track everything and you know where every penny is getting spent.

So give some tips to cash use.

So make sure that you have petty cash. Make sure that you have a balance and that you know what that balance is. You reimburse your petty cash on a regular basis. And if anybody's taking cash out, they are putting the change in as well as the receipt. Because if you don't have the receipt, it

didn't happen with cash. You don't have any sort of paper trail other than that receipt. So it's extremely important you keep it and you make a digital copy of it, because now the receipts vanish with with the heat printing. It vanishes after a year. So if you get audited in five years, there, it's just a

blank piece of paper. They can't use it. So really important use those credit cards.

And is one person supposed to handle cash?

No, never let one person handle cash. Make sure that you have proper breakout of responsibilities, so that you lessen the opportunity for people to commit fraud.

And it happens all the time, all the time. Those of you out listening again ask bookkeeping coach.com will be coming up live in the next little bit. You're hearing us on the front side of just becoming partners. But I wanted to get this fraud information. Broad information out to you, but I do

want you just to make sure that you stay in touch with us around the finance for non finance business owners, we're going to do some very specific categorization for athletes. And then a category I want to get into are real estate, because so many bookkeepers Miss code, yes, real estate wrong. They all the

time, yeah. And the reason cash flow existed when Kiyosaki built it and we took the same model into my millionaire maker game is one real estate transaction affects your P, your L, your assets, your liability affects everything, and bookkeepers forget, which means your tax return and that big bonus

depreciation is not coming to you. So stay tuned when you see the finance for non finance business owners, make sure you sign up, and we'll be back to have her on another podcast about that topic. Let's move to fraud. Fraud is rampant right now.

I mean the amount of just Tiktok fake accounts. There's, I think, over 200 imposters on my account that act like they're me and they're not, and they're scamming you, heading you over to WhatsApp for foreign I always said that's one of the things we say inside our camp here, is, if you're think you're on my

channel and somebody says, Go to WhatsApp. It's fraud. It's not me, it's not our company. So fraud, it's massive talk about believable.

So. So on average, about 30% of small businesses get hit by fraud. It usually takes about 18 months before it's identified, and by then, the loss is around $150,000 which is heartbreaking. A lot of small companies can't afford that $150 and it's one of the 1000, sorry, 50,000 and it's one

of the number one reasons that small businesses go out of business because of fraud, and most of it, unfortunately, is committed by employees. The number one thing I hear when we find fraud is she was like a daughter. To me, she was like family. He would come to our family events. I hear that all

the time, and people don't want to believe it, so I always say trust but verify. Yeah. So you said earlier. Pause, pause.

Just a quick note, when you do speak, always trying to point your mouth in direction of the microphone. Oh, sorry, no, you're good. It's been pretty good. But when you talk the other way, it feeds into the other microphone. Oh, got it. Okay, so voice directional, but yeah, really good.

Okay, so earlier, you said you had just detected 5 million just in 2025 talk about a few of those stories and examples of how the employees, mostly the bookkeeper, most of the time, unfortunately, bookkeeper and they sold you. They stole money, yeah. So sometimes what they'll do is

payroll is a big way to do it. One way is ghost employees. So an employee will leave and the bookkeeper will go in and just change the ACH information for direct deposit to be their account instead of the employees. Or they'll just add a person on payroll and just start paying themselves. And if the

owner's not looking, they're not going to know that that's happening. Another thing we saw on payroll is people just giving themselves a reimbursement where they're not actually do any money back. They just build it into the payroll. And again, unless you're actually looking to see on the payroll reports,

you're never going to catch it. Payroll is unbelievable. But there's a ton of other ways

give us the your your fan favorites. The worst, shocking ones, the

worst one I found was where an employee had set up a PayPal account, and they were transferring money to that PayPal account for personal purposes. Every once in a while they would pay a business bill from that, but most the time they were just taking it and running with it. Vendor fraud is

another big thing that's happening right now. Bookkeepers will go in and say, you have a company called, I don't know, Home Depot. They'll set up a Home Depot and then a Home Depot with a period at the end, or a space at the end, or something that will allow QuickBooks to view it as a different vendor.

Then they'll write checks to that second vendor that surprisingly goes to the employee. So it's an Yeah, when you're a owner and you look and you see Home Depot or Home Depot, period. You don't know to question it a lot of the time. It just goes undetected for a really long time. The other

thing that we're seeing is, if somebody knows that you use a specific vendor, they will call the bookkeeper and say, change my ACH information. Please. The bookkeeper will change the ACH information the next time that company sends in a bill, you pay it, you're paying it to the wrong Ach, it's going to whoever

the fraudster is, and you don't find out, usually for 60 to 90 days, until the vendor calls and asks why you haven't paid their bill yet, and by then it's too late. The other thing that happens all the time is check fraud. So they'll steal a check out of the mail, out of a mailbox, the end of your lane,

something like that. They'll take it, and they'll either wash the name off the check and replace it with their own, or pull the ACH information off the check, print their own checks in their name, and then go and pass it. And that way, when they're asked for identification, well, it matches what's on the check.

So people are taking it.

Wow, amazing. This seems like a lot of work.

It's a lot of they get away with millions of dollars every year. It's unbelievable.

And editors cut out my coughing all this stuff. So you gave me an example yesterday of some gentlemen at the hotel place where you used to work and talk about how points can get scammed.

Yes, so we had some night auditors that at the end of the night they would change the priority club number or the the awards number and to theirs. And then they would run the audit and then change everything back. So the guests would go home, they would call the corporate office say, I didn't

get my points. They would add it, and those night, auditors racked up millions of points. Yes. And they were able to use those points for travel, for goods, for all kinds of things, anything you can use your rewards points for, and they ended up being the actual top earners in the company that I

worked for. So by scamming their own company an audit of points, yes. Now money points, fascinating. So it's not just money that they're stealing,

yeah, so you have a whole bunch, and we will be using these for different downloads as we get into this talk about each of these, because I just want you, like, I want the listener, to know how thorough this is. So a fraud Audit Checklist.

So the fraud Audit Checklist really gives you something to go through to review with your company to make sure that you don't have any of the red flags. So red flags are, if you're going to pay a bill, it's probably going to be $259.75 not $250 round. How many round bills do you actually pay?

So you should be paying attention to those paying attention to all of the different things, like your payroll, like your P and L, making sure you're looking at your bank accounts. Don't just ignore them and assume your bookkeeper is doing it for you. You have to look at these things

to keep yourself safe. And what that checklist will do is walk you through all of those items so that you can make sure that you and your company are secure and hopefully prevent any fraud,

and talk just a little bit in that, because you mentioned bank reconciliations. Don't trust the bank, no, so talk about that. How many people just they run their bookkeeping basically on a check reconciliation that the bank does. They're looking basically at an online

statement, right?

You never know, because that's one of the easiest ways for somebody to steal money, if you're not going in and making sure that every check is accounted for, that every check clears, that clears your bank is in your QuickBooks account. You don't know somebody could have stolen check number

five, and in QuickBooks you've only got four and six. Well, where did five go? You've got to know to check those things, because it could be anywhere. It could have been lost. It could be legitimate, or it could be somebody stealing from you. Wow.

All right, weekly security checklist coming to you, all of us, soon, soon, soon.

Yeah, so the weekly security checklist is something you can go through once a week. You can do you can have a manager do. It takes you through all of the key things, like your cash and banking takes you through your vendors and your customer activity, technology, everything to make sure that

there's no holes in your systems, make sure you're protected Absolutely.

And then this was a good one. I didn't know this makes so much sense. Is when you bring a vendor on board, how do you bring them on board? And this is actually really, really thorough checklist.

So one of the main things we're seeing is a lot of vendor fraud. And you know, as I mentioned before, somebody will call and change an ACH information, somebody will come to you and say that they can provide this service or they sell this good, and you don't know unless you do your

research. So typically, on a smaller company, it's not as big a deal, but on something that's going to be a bigger deal, it's really important that you're checking that vendor out and making sure it's a legitimate vendor, making sure whether or not they've got judgments against them, making sure they

actually have a business license, making sure they've got insurance, especially in the real estate and construction industries, it's just really important that you're covering your bases and making sure you're safe. And vendor fraud is one of the things that we're seeing an increase in right now.

And so what are the top couple things that vendors do that you've experienced?

So the biggest thing is changing the ACH. That's the number one that we're seeing. It's awful. We're seeing them where they'll provide services that you have to pre pay for, and then the services never come. And when you try calling the phone numbers or any of that information you've got, it's

disconnected or it never existed in the first place, we're seeing a lot of vendors come in, do a partial job of something, and then want full payment, and then they never finish the job. So again, a lot of that stuff, if you just do your research ahead of time, you can catch ahead of time, and then you don't end up

becoming a victim of

that type of fraud. Awesome, immediate response. So what happens? And I love this is really thorough immediate response. She says, Stay calm. If you know you've been ripped off. That's a little hard. So talk about this one.

It is hard, but it's one of the most important things, because if you go immediately and you confront the person that gives them the opportunity to go in and destroy records or change things or make it look different before the police are able to get in to do an actual investigation. So it's

really important, don't confront the person, wait, do everything else you need to do, take a deep breath, contact the authorities, and then follow what they tell you to do, because you don't want to give the person the opportunity to erase things that they've done or to hide them so that you can't find them going.

Forward.

What other immediate response like? So stay calm. Do that, and then what?

Stay calm, contact a lawyer, contact the police, get the investigation going, lock them out of your systems. Don't let them continue to have access, because if they even suspect, they can go in and start changing records and stuff, and you don't always have a way to find it so super

important, just get the authorities involved as soon as possible.

And then what, I don't know where you want me going. Just sorry. Oh, okay, okay, kind of go through a few of the like solutions, okay, and so isn't, and then talk about the possibility of recovery ever?

Okay, so I can't read, I can't see that, so you want

to make sure that you secure the scene. So what I mean by that is don't let anybody make any changes. Don't you go in and make changes. Don't let any of your employees go in and make changes. Secure the scene. Make it so that it's static. It stays that way. Then you want to make sure you stop for their losses,

take away their login ability, all that kind of stuff. If you have to tell them your system's down, tell them your system's down. Just make sure that they can't go in and do more, because if they know you're coming for them, they might take a big chunk and run right so stop them as soon as you can lock them out

of your systems. Make sure that you're documenting who, what, when and where. Very important to make sure that you could give all that information to the proper authorities so that they can do a good investigation and make sure that they're not missing anything. Do not tell other employees what you're

doing, it's so important, because they might tell them you don't know. So don't tell anybody. Keep it to yourself. Make sure you make the right calls, the right contacts. Don't delete or move any of the files. Leave them where they are so that there's a good audit trail for them. Make sure that you

don't confront the suspect, and do not put it on social media. I actually saw a couple this year that went out and started posting on social media. Don't do that, that they were robbed. Yes, you don't want people to know that you've been a victim of fraud, because as a business, that makes you look bad. So you

don't want that out there. So make sure you're keeping it quiet, keeping it to yourself, only contacting the right authorities when it happens, it's awful. The other thing you're going to want to do is get some sort of support for yourself, because a lot of people, especially if they have

a substantial amount of fraud, end up with PTSD, end up with a lot of serious issues, and it's really hard mentally to overcome it and to trust yourself again.

Yeah, and it's a bit a Big Freeze position for you as a business owner. Absolutely. Other thing you should always be doing, if you this is, I'd say, more beginning stuff, but critical is lock down your credit. You can call all the credit bureaus and lock it down so they don't continue any

identity theft. Which is closer to you now, talk about this one? Well, you talked a little bit about the cash handling, so we did talk about that. But let's talk about the course. Because you've built this amazing four week course. We're going to be doing it if you're interested in attending a four week fraud

course that is taught by Bev and myself. It'll be in the show notes below. Get signed up, and it'll be four weeks every Tuesday is when we're planning on doing it, and so once you register, we'll give you more information and get the follow up. Yeah.

So we're going to go through all aspects of your business and all of the different ways that we see fraud. And I can tell you, I've gone through and modified this course multiple times, because every time I find fraud, again, I add it into the course. My number one goal with this is if

we can help just one business owner not be a victim of fraud, that's what we want to do. We're going to go through things you should check on a weekly, monthly, annual basis, make sure that you know these are the steps you need to take to secure yourself. Make sure you are keeping all of your

responsibilities separate, so that no one person ever gets enough control that they can get away with this kind of information.

So of all of those things, I mean, what do you find the most is it usually the bookkeeper,

the bookkeeper, almost every time it's the bookkeeper. So as much as I hate to say that, because that's my industry, you've got to make sure that, as a business owner, you are protecting yourself, you are looking at your statements. You don't have to go line by line every single month, but you

have to make sure that you are doing the things to protect yourself and to keep your business safe Well,

and that's one thing I would say to those of you listening. This isn't a course, and I'm a business owner. Been since I was 17 years old, on and off throughout my whole life. You need to attend as the owner. This is information for you to. Have the knowledge, and I would probably

have your senior managers or supervisors also go through per the department. So I'm going to handle it, and our team will be not only teaching with you, but our team will be sitting through it as well. And I say that because a lot of you business owners, you delegate stuff like this, and I can tell you that

bookkeepers, your sister, your brother, your best friend you're you know, because they do have very intimate information about you. So this isn't where they just get to sit for you. You have to go. So speaking of that, how? I mean, how, if you're talking to all these business owners that are here part of our

podcast around the world, how would you tell them, just today some tips and clear clues? How do they hire a bookkeeper and put some initial controls? Because if it's only one on one, which I know a lot of our folks are, you know, they have low staff. They don't have a ton of people like I have, you know,

two, three people, I can divide all those responsibilities, plus myself, actually four. If you're only one one, how do you as an owner begin to trust I hear that all the time with our big table clients, like, Who do I? Who do I? Who's that one person I'm going to give the keys to the kingdom to?

Yep, I don't think you ever give all the keys to anybody would agree. You keep some yourself and you can give some away. So some things, make sure that if you're setting up a bank account and you're giving your bookkeeper access to it, give them read only. Don't give them your login. Make sure that

you have a way that you can track when they're in there and what they're doing. Don't give them access to send wires on your behalf. Use a second, second party. That's not right. Build a common value, third party, third party, second party. That's not right. I'm sorry. Use a third party AP

processor, where the bookkeeper can go in, they can put all your bills in, but money doesn't move until you personally go in and approve it. You've got to put stuff like that in in place. You can have them prepare a wire. But again, money doesn't move until you push the button and verify it. So important,

yeah, and so many of you you want are the result that we promise. And all the ads that I do on lower taxes, better tax strategy, and through your tax returns that is driven by your bookkeeper. So many of you, you think you can be all of this, or you're doing Turbo Tax, or even doing your

own tax, you're missing a lot. There's over 80,000 pages of tax code in the United States. The fact that you're overpaying tax is a choice, so stop it and get a good bookkeeper in play. Start with our fraud course again. Go to the show notes below and get registered as fast as you can. And you'll be seeing Bev and I

out there. And then, once you attend the fraud course, you'll continue. Then be invited to the finance for the non finance business owners. If you're an athlete, we're going to target one to you for athletes, and definitely real estate. So Bev any final as we leave any final advice or insights to those that

are out there.

Just protect yourself, trust but verify every

time, every time you put controls in place. So we'll be going through it. We'll be giving you pre homework, post homework. It's important that you attend the owner, and we'll be back next Friday. If you have any questions, go to ask laurel.com a s, k, l, O, R, A L, ask a

question, make a request. We'll be back next Friday with another podcast, and just stay tuned and watch that site of ask bookkeeping coach.com come up. And very similarly, as you take the courses and as you learn more, or just curious, and really want to start protecting your business, your identity

yourself, make sure you go to ask for keeping coach.com and we will soon have that same availability to ask any question.

24/7, absolutely. I'm excited, and I just like I said, hope we protect at least one business owner out there.

We're going to do 1 million. She wants one I want 1 million. I want all of you followers. We'll talk to you next Friday. Take care. Thank you.

Thanks for listening to The Real Money Talks podcast. Your host has been Laurel langmeyer, author of five New York Times bestsellers, money expert on Dr Phil CNN, CNBC, the street TV, Fox News and the view. Want to learn more about off Wall Street investing, tax strategies and multi million

dollar business strategies. Visit, live out loud.com/podcast. For past episodes, show notes and resources for some special wealth building gifts only for Laurel's podcast listeners. Visit, live out loud.com/podcast gifts. Do you have a burning question for Laurel? Visit, ask

laurel.com to submit your question, and it may just be covered on a podcast episode. So stay tuned and be sure to subscribe to get new episodes every week. You. And.