In this candid episode of Blindian Brown Girls, Dr. Aumatma Simmons and Tanya Mitra explore the evolving standards of beauty, the role of social media in shaping our perceptions, and how authenticity plays into it all. From makeup tutorials to the influence of bots and fake engagement on social media, we discuss how modern platforms affect self-perception, relationships, and what it means to be authentic in today’s world. We also touch on the impact of social media in interracial relationships and how it can add layers of complexity to trust and communication.

What We Discussed:

• How beauty standards have evolved from skinny, blonde ideals to more diverse forms, but still with unattainable elements.
• Social media’s impact on our perception of beauty and authenticity, from press-on nails to makeup tutorials.
• The emotional and relational complexities introduced by social media in interracial relationships.
• How AI and fake engagement are altering what we see and consume online, shaping trends and preferences.
• Why authenticity and trusting relationships are harder to maintain in a social media-driven world.

Key Points & Quotes:

• Nails and Press-ons: "I’m into press-on nails right now… it has changed my life!"
• Makeup and Authenticity: “There’s this idea that makeup makes you less authentic, but honestly, it’s part of who I am. It’s playtime.”
• Beauty Standards Shifting: "Everyone has the same lips now… it’s crazy how these things become trends, but it changes how we see ourselves."
• Social Media and Trust in Relationships: "Social media can be the third wheel in a relationship, constantly feeding insecurities and creating new ones."
• Influencers and Authenticity: "We have access to all these people’s lives, but it’s a highlight reel—this isn’t real life."

Let's Connect!

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We're now on Instagram! @blindianbrowngirls and... if you want to connect with us individually...

• Connect with Tanya for awesome Interracial Relationship content
• Connect with Aumatma for cutting-edge fertility content

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Get ready for real and raw discussions as we dive into navigating mixed-race relationships and motherhood to the intersections of our lives, money, and so much more.

nails are one of those things, honestly. We're looking at each other's nails.(...) We've both got really long nails right now.

(...)

Mine are press on. I'm into the press on right now. Like it has changed my life, press on nails.

introducing me. Yeah,

so I'm gonna shout out my friend Marie. I'm gonna give her a whole shout out for, and she's like not even a nails person. And maybe that's why she discovered it, right? Cuz she's like, I just need it for like a day. And then she's like, well, it lasted another day and another day. And then she's like, my God, you would love this, like as someone who does your nails. But she figured it out on social media, right? So nails are one of those things, beauty now. I go to social media to figure out what I'm supposed to use and do.

my makeup? Yeah, like am I doing my makeup? Yeah, I'm on the- Am I using your own screen? Does it date me? Yeah, like,

yeah, cuz listen, there's a whole different application of makeup system now than when I, and I learned how to do makeup. I thought actually I was gonna be a makeup artist when I was younger. And I moved from that into fashion, realizing that makeup artistry was much more sort of singular in its direction.

so I really learned how to do makeup. And it's the completely like reverse of that now. Like it's just like a completely different way cuz now you start with the eyes and you do so much, like there's a whole different system. And I'm like, how do we not know that then? Like it's just interesting how that has evolved. But I think social media has a lot to do with that.

that there is, it's like people try different things and they're like, I like that better than that, right? Yeah. Cuz

I feel

like since I got turned onto social media makeup tutorials.

(...)

(Laugh)

cuz now I actually don't, I'm like, I'm gonna go to YouTube for my makeup tutorials cuz all of my shorts there are gonna be about makeup.

about makeup.

So you have like

a- I have like a whole- Yeah,

you have an algorithm, it's working for you. That is always gonna feed me makeup shit

on

YouTube.

Perfect.

So

like, hm, what's trending in makeup? Right, like I'll go to YouTube for that. And what's crazy is that there's been this like evolution of, like I've always been into makeup. My mom was actually a Revlon lady.

Oh really?(...)

So I got introduced very, very young.

(...)

And Revlon or one of those companies, I don't remember.

Was it Avon?

Avon, yeah. Avon, yes, yeah.

(...)

Yeah, I figured it was Avon.

Yeah, I like-

Revlon still exists and so does Avon actually.

(...)

Yeah.

so it was always around, I could use it whenever I wanted. So I was like fascinated by makeup. Not that I needed it when I was 12. But it was accessible.

and like I have a unique relationship with makeup, which we can get into because I don't feel like makeup is less authentic.(...) Yeah, that's some of the rhetoric that we hear on social media these days. Like, oh, I have to be authentic. You have to like see my face. I'm like, no, I can't see my face ever.

There's

always a face on and yet that's my natural face, right?(...) So if you're talking about authentic being,(...) you have some makeup on, versus authentic being, you're a whole different person. I think you've seen those videos of

women

that are completely distorted into a different even.

Oh my god.

(...)

It's unreal,(...) unbelievable how that is possible. Like, I still don't understand how people can get away with that and how people are just committed to doing that so they can look like that every day. Like, what is that about? Do you think that, like, I like that question and I think it's an interesting perspective because I think that's a conversation that comes up a lot. Like, what is authentic, right? Because is authenticity about who you are? And then, like, to me, I have a similar relationship with makeup. I love it. Like, it's like playtime to me. It's not... So it is actually part of who I am, you know what I mean? So it's what makes me authentic.(...) Like, it's what makes me me, you know what I mean?

Like, me

having fake nails, like, okay, I'm not over here trying to pretend they're real, dude. Like, I'm over here shouting out the fact that they're press off. I tell everybody, like, $8.99 on Amazon, you

know? I mean... $2.99. All

right, I got a little bit higher taste than that, okay? $8.99.

No, I don't know.(...) Mine disintegrated.

They disintegrated in the pool. After that,

I was like... I don't have that experience. Maybe

it was just that one set. It

could have been. It's like all these different companies.

Yeah, exactly. You never know. Okay, so maybe I'll check out Teamoo. Like, $2.99. Listen, okay?

Not even. This was... I have to say, this was probably $1.20.(...)

What?

Yeah, and they're, like, so pretty.

They are really pretty.

I couldn't find something in my usual shape, which is why I have plain tea nails.

Understood.

But I was like, "Oh, pink and sparkles!"

Oh, that's perfect. Awesome.

Makes my heart sing.

Yeah, and so there you go, right? So I think there's a difference between trying to claim that this is yours and real.

(...)

Everybody knows it's not real. Everybody knows it's not real. It's the same with lashes,(...) same with eyebrows, it's the same with lips.

It's everything now.

The lips, everybody got the lips. How do you lips this? Everybody got the lips. We know those are not your real lips.

Everybody... Okay, listen. Everybody on TV right now has the same lips. I'm like... So now all of a sudden, everybody's lips look the same. I'm like, they're the same size, the same shape. I'm like, I know all of you had different lips before. But that then becomes the new standard that we become used to looking at, right?(...) So how do you think that changes our perception of things?

I feel like it can be very distorting if what you get used to looking at is the perfect...(...) I don't even want to say perfect. The version of you that you maybe envision as your perfect self. It's flawless. Your eyebrows are perfect. Your lashes are perfect. Your lips are...

(...)

That would be perfect, please.

Poke in.

(...)

Your nails are on fire. Like all of those things are what you connect to the way you have to look. And I feel like some of them are gateway drugs, right? Like you start with one and then you're like, "Well, maybe I could do this. Maybe I could do this. Yeah, for sure. Maybe I could do this." And before you know it, you've got a boob job, a butt job. Yeah. Like you've toned your legs a little bit.

You can tone your legs.

I'm assuming. Oh,

I think you can do everything. Yeah. I'm so naive when it comes to... Oh, I'm so naive when it comes to that stuff. Like people would be like, "Oh yeah, you can." I'm like, "You can? How? Like how? And who thinks to do this shit?" Like, I mean, listen.

It's not us.

It's not us. It's not us, but it's a lot of people.

I think a lot of people do consider it and do...

(...)

Like social media is tending towards normalizing it.

For sure.(...) And I think, again,(...) there has become...(...) I think there's always been a standard of beauty that is associated... Once upon a time, I think it was more associated with being white and blonde and blue-eyed in particular. Like, now I think that that hasn't expanded. I think the scope is wider of what is considered beautiful. But I think there's still a particular standard within all of that that sort of seems like the ideal and that you see it across all of the

people.

I think standards are shifting though. Like when magazines ruled,(...) which I don't think they do as much anymore.

I don't think they do it all anymore.

(...)

So when magazines were the thing and when models and actresses were like the beauty standard, it was overtly white-bodied. Yeah.

Like

I'm saying white-bodied in the sense of like skinny, blonde, blue eyes, all of that, but skinny.

Yeah. Like no... Yeah. Skinny with boobs.

Yes.(...) And no

butt.

(...)

And now that the standard has shifted and it's shifted more towards...

(...)

I would say like more boldness in all the ways, right? Like there are more women getting butt jobs. Is that what they're called?

Yeah. Brazilian butt lift, BBLs.

BBLs, okay. So BBLs are becoming ever so prominent.

Yeah. Like

it's crazy. Everyone has one. I can't even believe it. Yeah. And I just am usually like, "Really?

(...)

Is that real? Is that

real?" No, you can tell when it's not real. You can tell when it's not real.

And it's... Well, I'm not so great at still picking it out.

Oh, and the butts? Oh, okay.

Like, oh, yeah. But now my thought is, "Oh, that's probably not real." But it's becoming the norm. So I feel like the beauty standard is shifting into a non-white female rhetoric.

Yeah. And I think that going back to what we were saying before, it's sort of what you get used to seeing, right? And I think that J.Lo was sort of one of the first people to start to change that narrative, although she was very thin. She had a little bit of a butt, and so that became a thing. And then Kim Kardashian, I think, really changed it. I think Kim Kardashian had a huge impact on... But now that's moving the other way, right? She got real skinny again. And all her sisters got real skinny again, and they're taking out all their implants. And so

the standard is

shifting, yes. Standard is shifting again. And now we're moving back towards the skinny body. We're moving back towards a different look. And so I think that's dangerous to me. That's really problematic,(...) because none of it was ideal. Even when the more fuller look, I think, was the thing, which I think on some levels, it's still much more accepted and desired than once upon a time, there's still a particular look to it. There's still a

particular... Oh, you still have that. You still have that. It's still an hourglass...

Yes.

(...)

It's not natural, right? It's not a natural woman's body. If you have not had two or three children, nobody's body looks like that, unless you have a lot of discipline, a lot of time to dedicate to looking like that. It's these people's job to look like that, right? And I think that we forget that, and we don't... And we compare ourselves, not me necessarily, because I certainly don't, but people often compare themselves to standards that are so...

(...)

Forget about the filters and all of that, but I'm talking about that is not your life, dude.(...) That's not your life. That's not the way you live. That's not what you are waking up to do every day. And so these young girls, I think, get fooled into thinking that that's just the way it's supposed to be. And the focus becomes on that and not on so much of the other stuff. But going back to what you were saying, I think we got used to seeing a particular new standard of beauty, and so that's shifted. But now that things are shifting back, then what

happens?

(...)

I will say that they might be shifting back toward non-implants, removing explant surgery,(...) becoming more popular because of the health movement around it. So what they have discovered is all these people that were getting implants, these implants leak, they're highly toxic, they can lead to cancer, there's all kinds of risks to the implants.

(...)

So they have, I feel like there are people, and because maybe they've influenced the influencers,

who like to

help people, have influenced the influencers to actually start thinking about this stuff. And those influencers are like, "Oh, yeah, like, okay, let's do explant surgery." Right? So that's where that's...

That's the cool thing to do now. Right. Well, it kind of is. But yeah, I think, you know, listen, if it's in the name of that, great. I don't know if

it is, maybe, perhaps. I think part of that trend is coming out of space.

I think in general, what I do like about, you know, what social media allows us to see is like, you do get to see so many different types of people doing things different ways. Right? Like you still have access to whatever it is that you want to have access to. So that's available. Like, a lot of that is on you, what you choose to expose yourself to.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I was just listening to a podcast this morning that was talking about the influence of AI and how that's shifting where attention is going.

(...)

So there is...

(...)

It's really hard to tell that bots are driving so many people's engagement,(...) especially on X, but possibly on Instagram, possibly on other platforms.

(...)

So there is this new thing that's happening that is bots faking human interest, which is like,(...) oh,(...) this has been watched.

I should watch

it too. Yes. Oh, this is like the new thing. I need to get into it. But it's actually fake interest

that triggers... Yeah, triggers real interest.

(...)

So, and that's kind of scary in a way. So you can self... You can... Yeah. Or you can control a... Yeah. Or you can control a... Yeah. Or you can control a... Yeah. Or you can control a... Yeah. Or you can control a... Yeah. Or you can control your algorithm, right? Your Instagram is going to feed you whatever is most popular.

(...)

And if there's 5 million views on a video, it's probably going to land in your feed at some point.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

So...

(...)

That's...

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

It's hard. There's just so many layers to think about that. I think just as a general person out here in the world, I know a little something. I think maybe even more than the average person about social media just because I have to be on it so much. And I know nothing. You know what I mean? And I know nothing. Right. So, people who are literally just consuming it and they don't have... They're not putting out content or not with intention at least.

(...)

They're not trying to get a following.

Right. They're not having to understand it, right? Right. Exactly.

(...)

And that happens with it when you are using it for business and so on. You start to learn it and understand it a little bit differently where you can separate certain things out, right?(...) And you have just a broader understanding of the mechanism that it is and sort of the machine that it is, right? Because you have to learn how to operate within that machine. But I think for just a consumer, they're just consuming and it is built for consumption.(...) That's literally what it's built for, right? It's built to keep you on the platform. So, what they're going to do is, I guess, you know, like this fake interest, generating real interest, is it directs you to think and see and absorb certain things, which I think is so influential.(...)

It's influential, but to me, it's like there was a time when you could rely on...

(...)

If that was your interest, I feel like I've never really been interested in it. I've never been interested in what's trending. I think it's delicious. But in general, like if there was a trending post or something that was relevant to me, what I'm into, my feed, it would show in my feed.

(...)

And that there was this, like, organicness to it that I appreciated, right?

(...)

I resisted for a long time running any kind of ads on social media because I was trying to be a purist. I was like, "No, I just want to see you with

organic." Organic, right, right. Like, "What happens

if I just make my content?"(...) And that was great for a long time.

(...)

But if there are real people not using bots and services and AI and all of this to feed the algorithm,(...) and simultaneously,(...) there are other voices that want to be more prominent and aren't going to use all of those things,(...) it really becomes like less and less about organic. Anything?

Absolutely.

And more and more about who's willing

to

pay more for your content.

Who has what resources? Yeah, exactly. I was going to say, that's

the real. And somehow, at the end of the day, it always comes back to the same story. Like, who has the resources to create more resources, right?(...) And that's really discouraging.(...) That sucks, right?(...) It's hard for people to get out then of the trap that is social media. Because it's amazing for so many things, but it's still a trap. People get caught up. It is like taking over people's lives.(...) Think about relationships, right?

(...)

What's it doing to people's relationships?

(...)

Ruining them. Ruining people's relationships.(...)

Ruining them.

(...)

It is interfering. It's like a third wheel in the relationship. It's something that it can be so disruptive to people's trust,(...) it can be really triggering to people's anxiety,(...) abandonment issues. It just exacerbates and heightens problems and insecurities that are already there and creates insecurities that maybe would not have been there had there not been social media, right? But before, I feel like people would have the natural worry about, "Okay, what's my partner doing when they're out? What's my partner doing when they're not with me?" If that was a trust thing, right? But now it's like, literally, what is my partner doing literally all the time? Because they're shitting on the toilet with their phone in their hand, right?

(...)

They have access to other people and other options and other conversations and other opportunities all the time.

(...)

It can really break down people's ability to have confidence in their partner.

(...)

It can trigger their own insecurities in ways that they maybe thought they had gotten over or they didn't have. I have a client whose partner goes to a lot of work functions and often it's like a last minute thing after work. And it has become very problematic because he will get a lot of these people's social media, right? That's how people exchange information these days.

(...)

It's changing.

Yeah. Work people too. Yeah. He's one of those people who has to take people out and do that.

(...)

Whatever it is, it's a personal engagement with them, right?

(...)

So it goes beyond that boundary and I think that's the problem is that it does for him have to go beyond that boundary and she doesn't trust it, right? Because he'll not be as responsive when he's out and she'll start to worry like, okay. And if we took away the social media part of that where he then has access to these people outside of that one, two hours that he's spending with them, I think it becomes less like, "Oh, well now they're connected."

(...)

And they're attractive and now I'm going to go dig deeper and find out who they are and I have access to do that.(...) It's just like little things that you don't think would interfere. I think sometimes social media adds another layer. I mean, forget about the stuff where it's like, who are these random chicks that my dude is following? You know what I mean? All these Instagram models.

(...)

These

Instagram lovely ladies that like to be loud on Instagram with their bodies.

(...)

But listen, do you, right?

(...)

But I mean, I think about...

(...)

I don't think Ty follows people like that. I really don't know because I don't look at his social media.

(...)

Have I in the past? Yeah, the curiosity, not because I thought, I was like, "Who does he follow?" Because you'll see, if you follow the same person, it'd be like, "Oh, okay. We follow... Because we don't even follow each other." Well, we follow each other, but we don't engage with each other really that

much.(...)

He's not a social media person, so we don't think about it, right? So every, maybe once or twice, I've seen a couple of his followers.

(...)

If he's looking at chicks like that, like it...(...) I don't know. Maybe I would have an issue with it, but it doesn't come up for me.

(...)

And when I think about it like this, I'm like, "If it was happening, it's not disrupting my life or my relationship in any way." So I personally don't think I

have a problem with it. What do you think that it is when there are women that are finding it hard to have that trust with women that maybe are not?

(...)

I think it's your own insecurities, one, for sure, right? Maybe two, what you've been through before, right? What are the experiences that you've had that have created either insecurities or a trust issue is an insecurity, but trust, there have been betrayals of trust and so on. And three is the quality of the relationship.

(...)

I think the quality of the relationship and...(...) People don't really think about relationships in terms of rating their quality, but you know when you're in something healthy and you know when you're not. You know what I mean? And even if you're someone who doesn't know how to find the signs of an unhealthy relationship, what you're feeling is usually anxiety, is usually frustration. So you're moving in that energy, right? So you know that the quality is not great.(...) So those things, and I think people who don't care about that stuff don't assign a lot of

(...)

meaning to it. They are able to detach their own relationship from what that might mean.

(...)

Not everybody has a problem with the looking for, you know what I mean? It's the interactions. It's the, okay, now are you...(...) Do they say... Yeah, I'm like, do they still say sliding?

I'm like, I'm sure. It's far inside. It could have

changed yesterday. I don't know.

And that's like, honestly,(...) if you...

(...)

I think there's a different level of access.(...) Like there have always been threats to your relationship.(...) Always.(...) From the whole side, right? Like there's always gonna be women, men, whoever that are like...

Coworker,

somebody. Somebody, yeah. Yeah. Right? So that has always existed.

(...)

Now I think that because the level of access is so at our fingertips, and it's all the time, it's not isolated to,(...) this could happen when you're out. This could happen when you're out work.(...) Now it's like all the time existed.

Like it can happen all the

time. I think

for some people it is happening all the time.

Right. Yeah.(...) So it's valid.

(...)

And then I think the other thing that you had said earlier is there is a level of intimacy creation that can happen on social media that doesn't happen in other contexts. Right? So you see someone when you're at a work thing,(...) you leave it there. Right? You're like, "Oh, they're attractive. Whatever." Mm-hmm. You're not thinking about it.

Or maybe you are, but... But now... But you're thinking about it in your own head.

Yeah. Right. You make enough stories, whatever. Right? But once you have that direct access, you have another layer of intimacy with that person.

For sure. That

you do not have. Yeah. You

get to see them on a personal level.

Absolutely. Yeah. For most people, social media, that would be true. Mm-hmm. Like you would get to know this person on a personal level. And I like...

Isn't that where people go first now?

...stalker. At some point, I would call him a stalker. He was literally like... would post on every single one of my posts, would DM me like, "Oh, doctor, why didn't you wear your stethoscope?"

(...)

And I'm like, "Do I know you?"

What? Why are

you messaging me weird shit?

Oh my god. What? I literally had it... I was

literally obsessed with just me having my stethoscope in every video.

Oh, he's

got like some fetish. I'm just gonna leave it. Not that. Did you block him? He was... He was like... I think he's a student in India. This is what I perceived from what... like the way he was messaging me.(...) He was a heart doctor to me.

Oh, Lord, have

mercy.

Like really, where's Steph's go? It makes you look so cute. And I'm like, and these would be public comments, right? And I'm like--

What the hell?

Like--(...) Oh, God.

Yeah, get away from me, dude.

But you can't. Like my social media is so not personal most of the time that I don't feel like you can really like know me for my social media. A lot of people think they know me.(...) But I don't think that people actually know my life, what's happening in my life, even though my life is very public.

(...)

I get it.

But I think that some people, I've noticed a share really more that is--

Some people share everything. Yeah, I mean, listen.

You can know where they are, what they're doing. Oh, yeah.

(...)

Like day to day.(...) Yeah, day to day. Absolutely, you could.

(...)

Absolutely, you can. I mean, I know that about a lot of people, a lot of people that I have not met. I know where they are day to day because I watch their stories and they show me where they are day to day. You know, like I think for me, I do share quite a bit personally,

(...)

but there's still a boundary and I'm very aware of what that boundary is. You know what I mean? I know what I need to show for work and I know what is going to resonate. And I know that there's some things that I like to share. I enjoy sharing. You know what I mean? I have no issue. I'm not somebody that doesn't show my kids. I show my kids on social media. And you know what? I just realized that it wasn't even a conversation Ty and I ever really had. I had been already posting Asaya and Asaya's dad is a public person. So he doesn't post any family, interestingly. So he's, and if he posts somebody, he posts an old picture. So he'll post like Asaya when he was three. Asaya's about to be 13. You know what I mean? So you don't know. And so I understood why he did that because he was public in that way and in New York and in a particular industry. So I got that, but I always, he had no problem with me posting. And then Ty and I never really talked about it. And so I post the kids, I'm mindful about if they don't want to or they're like not into it. I'm like, I don't force them. You know what I mean?

(...)

They enjoy it too. I think a lot of kids do. Did you guys have a conversation about

that? Yeah, we did. And I don't know that it was a complete conversation. It was just more like-- A consideration. Like, do we wanna do this? Is this something that we actually do? And then we started a family account,

(...)

which we're so terrible at posting.

(...)

(Laughing)

It just doesn't, like, I record so much content all the time that could feed our family account, but I'm responsible for editing. All of it, yeah. Like, I just don't do it. I don't have the pull to wanna do this. Yeah,

I get it.

(...)

But there was a time where, it's fun content to capture regardless of whether or not it gets posted to social media, right? Like, our child loves looking back at his own videos.

(...)

So

he, like, and lately he's been putting on a personality to those videos.

He gets it, he gets it. Like, it's like turning it on for the camera, yeah.

(...)

Listen, it's a thing. They get it, they get that. I don't know how-- I think more innately than we ever did, because we didn't grow up with cameras in our face and we certainly, like, listen,(...) how many times do we play back videos of our kids from, "Oh, look at you when you were here, "and look at you when you were at this age." Right, so they're used to, all they do is watch videos of themselves and other people, yeah.

And I think that he's developed this more since he has a favorite show on YouTube that we've been allowing him to watch is like a ninja show. It's these kids that are into ninjas, so they're doing, like, gymnastics and karate, stuff like that. And he loves it. Like, he's taken it so well. Like, he just practices. Oh, that's awesome. Oh, look at my new tricks. Like, he's really into it. So we started letting him watch those videos.(...) And these kids have now expanded their field

(...)

into, like, kind of long-type things and music videos.(...)

Oh my God.

Should these kids be singing?

(...)

Probably not. But their songs are getting famous.

(...)

Dude, anybody could get famous these days. It's amazing. Oh my God. It's amazing.

(...)

So we started with that. And then as soon as he's been, like, in taking this all summer,(...) and then recently, I can't remember what the content was, but recently I was like, "Oh, like, let's make a video about it. Give me your tour." Right? Oh, he got this, like,

(...)

he has this clock in his room that has dang on him that projects onto his ceiling. Okay.

Oh, that's cool.

I get it, I know. He's so excited. He's like, "I wanna show you up."(...) (Laughing) He's like, "But he's all excited."(...) And I had literally not seen it yet. So I was like, "Great, I'm gonna record it." So it's on camera.

(...)

And he, like, created this really cool thing out of showing me the clock. The clock. Down on his ceiling. And it captures, like, my actual reaction, which was like, "Whoa!"

(Laughing)

So it would, like, stuff like that, that's just spontaneous that I want anyway. Yeah. Like, "Let's just record it."

(...)

So we have all of this content, essentially, that could potentially go out into the world(...) that we've discussed. We've talked about it. We have family Instagram. Like, we

talked about it, it's

like taking some steps towards putting it out into the world.

I mean, let's talk about the reality of what it takes to actually put content out into the world, though. And I think that that, again, a lot of people who are just consumers of content do not understand.

(...) It's an investment. Like, you are going to need to film that content. You may need to do multiple takes, which for this video that I'm talking about, there were three takes.

Yeah.

Listen,

I rarely,(...) even if I get it in my first take, I will want to rerecord it four more times just because I'm like, "Oh, I could do it better. "I had to do it like this. "Oh, no, what about here? "Oh, my, you know." And I think also that is part of it too. And it sounds ridiculous, but that is part of the creation process. Right.

And I recorded a video yesterday. I literally did six takes of it, the same one and a half minute video.

(...)

And each time I was like, "Oh, I could edit this, "but I could also just record it better."

(...)

Yep. Keep recording.

(...)

And finally, the last, and this happens to me a lot. I'm curious as it happens to you. At some point, I just get fatigue of saying the same things again and

Yes.

And I'm like, "Fuck it, it's just good enough."

Yep, absolutely. This is

it. Yeah, yep. And it doesn't matter. And then there's the little bit of like, "Maybe I could do

one." Yep.

(...)

(Laughing) I could do so much more. 100%, yes.

And then after that, I'm like, "Okay, that--" Stop, exactly. And then you might not even

one. You use the one that you should have used before(...) because that one was acting better.

(...)

Yes, that happens to me too.

Editing this content and the engagement piece, like, I think there's a lot to it.

Dude, there's so much. People do not understand. And I didn't understand. Like, how can you understand? And I ran, well, I didn't run. I oversaw my person that, on my team ran social media for the last company that I worked for.

(...)

I have a new appreciation

for them. That's what I was saying.

(...)

I was just like, "I wanna see this and this and this." And he would just make it happen. And I'm like, "Oh, he was doing a shitload of work." Like, oh my God, I had no idea. And we were fortunate. We had a lot of user-generated content as you do in your fashion brand, especially a lot of influencers and stuff wearing your stuff. So I had a concept of it, right? But the creation piece and then the consistency, because it's not just the creation then, it's the caption, then it's the stories, then it's the multiple platforms. And then it's editing, it's lighting, it's all of these things. I mean--

(...)

There's a lot that goes into it. And I think that people have this idea that they're gonna go InstaFamous or TikTok famous or whatever it is.

(...)

But the reality is most people don't get famous, right?

No.

So if your intention in getting into social media is, "Oh, I'm gonna become famous,"(...) probably not. It's unlikely. Let's just be real.

Yeah, how do you think people do get famous? Like, I've,(...) there'll be, you know, you'll, I'll be scrolling reels or whatever.(...) And just out of curiosity, sometimes I just like hit someone's name, right? And I get that the reels are showing up because like you said, people, it's being directed to me, right? Especially with reels.

(...)

They're obviously always pushing it out to audience that is not in your followers, right? So it will be a person, okay, they've got like, I don't know, 84,000 followers. And I'm like looking through their feet and I'm like,(...)

what do you do?

Like, I don't get it. Like, I

just don't-- They don't have a clear definition of what they do?

Well, it's just nothing. Like, it's not like somebody, maybe their work thing. It's just like a influencer or something. I'm like--

There's no clear, like why do you exist?

Yes, like what is it that you are doing that's different than XYZ other person is doing? Like maybe I'm not spending enough time with that person to really find that out. But if I'm somebody that has 100,000 followers, I wanna be able to go to your feed and see why you, like most of the people I find, you can. You know, you go there and you're like, okay, I get it. Like that content is especially good or the feed is especially curated or interesting or the videos are consistent. So there's like an, you know, but I see that with a lot of it. But then again, people have bots and people buy followers and people, you know.

And that is sometimes why you cannot find why this person is getting-- Relevant, right,

yeah.

(...)

But how do

people, how do people become famous? Like what's the differentiator, do you think?

(...)

I think there are a lot of companies cleaning to have the formula to get famous.

(...)

Like it's a lot of,(...) there are a lot of companies that I keep targeting me. I have like the account that they're like, you have potential, you really have potential.

(...)

But I,(...) and I bought one of these trainings recently

(...)

so the general theme that I got was like, you need to tell a story, you need a strong hook, you need a visual hook and a like audio hook. You need it all to like think.

Align, yes.

(...) So there's that aspect of like you, if you have a specific topic that you're gonna be talking about,(...) you have a niche, it's clearly defined.(...) And you create videos that are within that paradigm. You're telling a story, you're making it interesting, it's short enough for people-- To consume,

right, yeah.

So many factors to consider, yeah. Then it is more likely to go viral. And then there are, I haven't gotten into it, but there are people that claim guaranteed virality.

(...)

How can you guarantee--

If you have my formula, you will guarantee,

(...)

get viral, go viral within 30 days.

What, how can you guarantee that?

And I'm like, I'm finding this hard to believe.

I'm finding that very hard to believe.

And I'm finding it hard to believe that you are offering something different than the 25 other ads that I keep seeing in my Instagram feed, so I'm not buying each and every one of these courses.

Yeah.

(...)

There is, I feel like there is the,

(...)

on Instagram specifically,(...) the format that people use that say works and they have proof of concept, like, hey, we have thousands of people that put this into work, they're using it, it's working for them.(...) So there's that, there's also the newness factor. So when TikTok first came out,(...) there was loads of people getting TikTok famous. And it was the simple reason is that they were you.

They were the first. They were the first onto

the platform. That's true for podcasting, that's true for YouTube.(...) Right, like it's the same model. So when you transfer your social media knowledge onto another platform that is new, and you like, at least for me, this has been true. Like my uptake from Facebook to Instagram took three years.

(...)

It was about the time that it took me to see that Instagram was out to actually creating an Instagram account and putting some energy into it, was about three years.

Okay.

(...) My uptake from Instagram to TikTok was about three months.

(...)

So I went viral on TikTok that much faster because I already have Instagram knowledge that I then applied to TikTok,(...) right?

(...)

And that is, it's possible.

(...)

But like one viral video doesn't make you famous.

(...)

That's the other thing too.

You have to continue feeding it and you have to keep getting viral video after viral video after viral video. And to me, it has felt like there is a trade-off. Like if I want to continue putting out viral content,(...) I have to do certain things that I'm not willing to do.

I get it.

(...)

And I'm okay with that.

Yeah, I mean, I think people, I think it's worth saying that when you are somebody that is running a business and a serious one and not just like a product base or like here by my $200 course type of business, like virality means that you have a lot of eyes on your business that are not ever gonna buy anything from you or never really is not, they're not interested in what you actually are saying or they were interested in that video and that video caught their attention and that thing was funny or it struck a chord in that moment, right? But now they're following you and yes, there are a number on your page, but they're not engaging with you or they're not consuming from you. So like what is the point of them? And I think people don't quite understand that. So people who are influencers, yeah, they're just looking for numbers, for volume, right? They don't care who it is that is following them, they just need volume so they can get deals because they have eyes on them, right? And I think again, the average consumer doesn't understand that distinction and people are going, trying to do something for the sake of doing it, like becoming famous, but for what? Like what are you trying to become famous for or to do? Or what's the objective here?

And I think that each person needs to define their objectives. They need to have a plan before going into social media. If the plan is I get famous so I can get deal and affiliates then whatever, like all of that(...) is a very different approach than I'm here to educate(...) as my primary thing. And if people resonate, then they can work with me, which is my default mode is I don't give a shit.

And

I know that what I have seen is that there is a growing amount of attention that gets paid to someone like me who has thousands of followers

(...)

versus perhaps a new person on the platform.(...) And that attention is not necessarily from people that would want to purchase anything.

Yeah, it's a similar

thing.(...)

From companies that are like, "Oh, maybe you want to collaborate with me." Which basically means maybe you want to push our product onto your--

Exactly, exactly.

No, thank you. Yeah. That's not what I'm about. If I believe in your stuff, maybe.

Totally different, yeah.

But my goal is very different rather than promoting a bunch of products and getting a 10% commission that I don't give a shit about.

(...)

Or like educating, continuing to manage my portfolio as like, this is who I am, what I'm about and what I'm here to educate about. And that's it, like that's where I draw the line.

(...)

It's a very different approach.

(...)

And there you have to care less about how many followers.

You have to, you have to. Because it can really be,(...)

what's the word I'm looking for? With a D?(...) Not disgruntled, it seems

really

discouraging.

(...)

(Laughing) I like disgruntled.

(...)

(Laughing) Listen, so I don't have a huge following on Instagram. I think I put out quality shit. I think I am very consistent. But I think if I was to say I was to,

(...)

all of a sudden have 30,000 followers, right? If I just changed the number, I think I would have a much easier time growing. It's because I already don't. And people are now sort of, the perception is because you have more eyes on your followers, that makes you better at what you do. More serious, more educated, more expert, blah, blah, blah.

There's a little bit of authority. Of course. And it's fair,

it's fair. Because yes, in many cases, you know, the growth is because of the authority. And I would never take that away from anyone. But it's hard to distinguish then, right? It makes it really confusing and convoluted in the marketplace. Even if you're just looking for something,

(...)

especially when you're looking for something personal to you, it's like, how do I determine who's good, who's not, who's, you

know. Here's the thing though, like I have found, like I will look up people on social media always,

right?

Like I meet someone or I hear someone

(...)

interview on a podcast. I'm like, who is this person? I go look them up.(...) And there is like human nature a little bit to be like, damn, okay, how did I not know about this person?

For sure.

(...)

Versus someone who doesn't have that much of a following being like, huh, that's interesting.

(...)

But I don't discredit them if they don't have a following. And I think that that's where so many people don't understand that concept, right? Like you're not judging someone based on their following, but on their content.

Yeah, and people don't.

(...) People don't.(...) But I think that's not like once you understand social media,(...) the clickbait and the hacks and all the shit that people are doing, it becomes a lot clearer to be like, who cares that they have 84,000 followers, nobody's engaging.

Yeah. And you can quickly see that too. You can quickly see when you have an engaged audience and honestly, it depends on what you do too, right? So there are influencers who are out there saying controversial shit. Of course people are gonna engage. You're stirring them up, you're rallying them up, and that's what you do. For something that you do or something that I do, people aren't over here commenting like that. They're not being public about their fertility struggles. They're not public about their relationship issues. They're DMing me privately or finding me on my website and coming a very different way.

You know what I mean? So the advantage to our content on social media then is to reach the people that haven't been reached,

(...)

to share the message, and to trigger a moment of like, "Damn, that's me. Can this person help me?"

(...)

It's an interesting thing.

It's such an interesting thing. And it just influences so much of our lives, right? And even just the way we consume news, for example, we can literally curate our news feed to what we want, right? We don't need to see any news outside of what we prefer, which is good and also terrible, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Again, going back to that podcast that I was listening to this morning, which is basically the algorithm feeds you more of your box,(...) right? So if this is your box, that's what you're going to keep getting for it. And I've seen my algorithm has changed drastically over the last few months because I got burnt out on following all the fertility people. I was like, I just

can't. (Laughter)

I'm so over it. I do this for work. I don't want to consume content around

that.

(...)

Like,(...) according to strategists, this is like the worst thing that I've ever done for my Instagram.(...) But it was a selfish move.

Why is that the worst thing?

Because now they're feeding me-- what they're feeding me is also what shows up in your feed is also what they're assuming that people that follow you are interested in.

(...)

So strategists are always going to be like, follow only your niche and stick to that. Stop following everybody else. Use a personal account for that.(...) Like, keep it to--

I've literally never heard that. You literally never heard

that. That's like the first advice that I get from a strategy.

Oh my god, no marketing strategists or social media strategists have said that to me. That's very interesting.

For 10 years, my feed was fertility. And again, like, completely burnt out on seeing all the fertility people and then comparing myself and-- I feel like that's--

Yeah, I feel like that's like the

worst thing you could do for yourself. I've never seen a video about this, so now I can't. Yeah, or someone else in, they're going to think I

copied them. Oh my god, that's so awful.

Yeah, so that has been going on in my back end for a good

time. Oh, that's terrible. Oh my god. Those strategists should not be strategists. It's awful.

I'm like, I'm going to follow whoever the fuck I'm interested in through the algorithm.(...) I just want to have my feed be content that I want to watch.

That you enjoy consuming. Yeah.

(...)

I mean, I get it. I get it. But I think that people are whole beings, and people consume all types of different things. So people who follow you are also consuming all types of different things. And it's

important for us.(...) They're not in asylum. They're not--

(...)

I'm only interested in fertility and nothing else. It doesn't make sense. So I'm over it. I think my feed has drastically changed. But my point was going to be our feed and who we follow, who we're giving our attention to, is so in a box of what our interests always are. And when it gets into politics, now our feed is literally what our political views are. So I have now started following opposite,(...) political opposites, so that I can hear what everyone is saying. And I can see for myself, like, both sides are claiming that they have a better solution.(...) The other side said something that they didn't. But they're both doing it to each other. And I'm like, wow, how do you even choose? Like, is this true or is this true?(...) And the reality is,(...)

nobody knows. Nobody knows. And a lot of it is just not true on both sides.

So--

(...)

And social media is spinning it. So what I think is--(...) and what I found interesting-- and we'll definitely link the episodes that I keep referring to. Yeah, yes.

(...)

But the thing that I found really interesting was he talks about being able to view and to be able to hear the other side of whatever you believe without being triggered or feeling like it's a personal attack that then has you personally attacking the other side.(...) And he says, when it gets to the point where both sides are just attacking each other, democracy goes away.

(...)

And it's happening in our time.

(...)

And it's very possible that this could happen.(...) That's scary. So I don't mean to bring up--

I'm like, yeah, that's very scary. But that's the power of social media as well, right? We just have access to so much more. And that's why it's a choice to stay ignorant. Honestly, it is. It's a choice to stay siloed. I think what you did is something that most people don't, which is step outside of their own box and go seek information and knowledge that is maybe not aligned with your own views, but just to have another perspective and another view. And social media is a great place for that, right? You don't have to be--(...) people don't got to know that. And you just-- (Inaudible) Yeah, whoever or whatever. And it's like--

Cool, like you have access to all of it, so you can make whole views, you know what I mean? You can form, but people don't use it for that. That's the thing, that's what I'm saying. Like what you did is something that most people I don't think would do. Like I don't know that I actively follow. I will go and click on a thing and go read it and understand, you know, a different perspective or be like, "Let me hear what they're saying about this over here," or, you know, "I'm curious about the perspective. Let me like seek it out," because I know that there's always another side, and I know that mine is not, you know, the only way, or, you know, in many cases maybe not the quote unquote right way, depending on who you ask, right? So there's always, there's power in knowing the other side too, and I think social media gives us access to all of that, even when it comes to beauty stuff, right? There's this whole movement of chicks looking like, oh sorry, women, beautiful women looking,

(...)

you know, a certain way, but there's also this huge natural movement where it's like, you know,

embrace your skin. Yeah, show your

gray hair. Look at your body. Embrace your body for everything that it is. And so I think, you know, we can also choose to consume things that will make us feel better, but a lot of the time we consume things that feed the critic, feed the insecurities, that make us feel badly about

ourselves. So the one more thing about this podcast, I think that

you- Clearly I need to listen to this

episode. I just want all of it.

(...)

But another thing that he said was that our human tendency is to be fed by fear.(...) So-

Absolutely, yes.

The critic, the, the afraid, the whatever, like it's all grouped under the lump of fear tactic,(...) then it really, it feeds on-

Absolutely.

Right? Yeah. It's just like, oh, if I'm hooked in to this story or this line of stories, it has to do with like how much emotion it's stirring up, usually of the negative kind.

Absolutely. That's, you know, our brains are built for survival. We are built for fight or flight.(...) Now they've expanded that, but you know, still fundamentally that's what we're built for. We just, we don't have to live like that anymore, but as a species, that's what we're conditioned to do. And that is how they keep us conditioned, right? Why do we think that the news, you know, if the traditional news media is so sensationalized, right? It's based on sensationalism because it captures your attention. It plays on your fears. It strikes your insecurities and

keeps you

stuck. Yeah. And it always has. And the thing is, we know that that's the case,

but how many millions of people are still sitting there every single night consuming that right before they go to bed?

A lot. Like a lot.

(...)

You know what I mean?

(...)

But like disconnecting from that is,(...) can be very healthy.

(...)

Oh, absolutely. I mean,(...) 100%. I think, you know, if you are disconnecting from that and have intention to still be abreast of what's going on in the world, there are so many ways to get your information. You know, I have stopped, I never did watch the news, but you know, I like, I have an aversion to it. I just, I cannot watch it. Like it cannot be on in my house. For some reason it comes on. I'm like, where's the remote? I'm like desperately looking for the remote. Like I don't, that energy is so negative to me. Like I just, I don't want it in my house. I don't want it nowhere around me. When I go to my parents' house, they watch a lot of the news, a lot of the news. CNN is on pretty much 24 hours a day and I like next to lose my mind. And listen, like I don't disagree with a lot of the things, but I don't want to hear one perspective one way, one, you know what I mean? And so, but that's how people choose to consume it. Or they get siloed into this one particular lane, one particular perspective, and they don't seek knowledge outside of that.

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