What does it take to risk it all and build a thriving remote law firm? In my latest conversation with business lawyer Margeaux Thomas, she reveals how a leap of faith turned a humble dining room setup into a dynamic, distributed empire. How did she overcome perfectionism, recruit a global team, and balance personal sacrifice with ambition? Could Margeaux’s bold “burn the boats” mentality be the key to your next breakthrough?

And it's not about getting it right all the time. I think it's more about learning when to pivot. That's what I wanted to create. An environment where people want to come to work to help people and are invested in the goal. When do you get to the point where you don't need to come to work at all?

So we're going to dive into all that. So Margo, why don't you introduce yourself? Tell us about you what your firm does, where you are, all that kind of stuff.

Jonathan Hawkins: So I grew up as a business litigator doing business divorces too. So yeah, I know those issues and then I started getting into law firm divorces, law firm breakups, and that's what led me down this path. But,

D. Margeaux Thomas: Oh,

those are the most

Jonathan Hawkins: those could get very contentious for sure. Not always, but sometimes, man, crazy. Okay, so tell me your firm.

So it's who's with you, how many attorneys, staff, is it in office, virtual, combo?

We have an office in the city of Fairfax where we will have a deposition or post a mediation every now and then. But we mostly go there to water the plants and just hold down the fort. We rarely meet there. And we have people everywhere. We have a couple of VAs that are one in South Africa, two in South Africa, one in the Philippines. An attorney in Maryland, one in New York, one in North Carolina. And so we're kind of faced about, you know, a little everywhere. But we have found a way to kind of have some community, even though we're all spread out. So I like that aspect.

Jonathan Hawkins: So I'm going to, I want to go back to the beginning, but before we get there for these attorneys that you've added as you've grown, have you, well, first of all, have you always been remote?

And I didn't go there very often, and I was like, I don't know what this is adding. So, then I just said, look, we'll keep the office. We have, you know, Printers and things like that that we need but I don't think it was fair to make them come in every day. So, you know, they can go if they want to, if they want to get out of their house, it's there.

It's the option for the people local. And you know, I thought that was the best decision at the time and people are happy with

Jonathan Hawkins: That's cool. You know, everybody's got their own, their own take on that. and some people they're very firmly in their camps, but so you, so you've got all these attorneys that in your remote. So how did you find those attorneys and recruit them? Was it by accident? Or did you try to do it?

Tell me about that.

It may take a little while for them to align when they're ready at the same time you're ready And it's you just got to you just got to do it all the time So I bet I bet you do spend a lot of time doing that

D. Margeaux Thomas: A lot of time. A lot of time.

Jonathan Hawkins: And so on that another sort of follow up on that. So In terms of the types of roles you're looking to fill I'm always curious from a sort of a strategy standpoint. Is it are they filling? holes that you want filled in terms of capabilities, or is it just to add more of doing the same stuff? So for example, let's say, you know, I was just throwing stuff out.

You needed like a trademark attorney and you're like, all right, we're going to go find a trademark attorney. Or is it just, we just need more business litigators.

I'd like to move her into that role. So we're looking for a paralegal who's experienced who can take on a lot of the work that she's doing. I also have an ad running for a a business litigator because we need the capacity. And after that I will be hiring for a managing attorney because I would like to move out of the day to day work.

And I need somebody to oversee that. And then after that hire, I'd like to hire a fractional COO that kind of works with the firm administrator to make sure that everything is lined up that she's doing. So I have a plan and some slots that I need to fill. I'm trying to find the right bodies and people to put in those.

So as you're coming out of law school what kind of work were you looking to do and was it business litigation back then or was it something different?

D. Margeaux Thomas: I don't think anybody who goes to law school really knows or maybe that was just my experience, but it's really hard to know exactly what you want to do until you're in it and doing it because it all sounds great from the outside until you get into the nitty gritty and then you're like, this is mind numbing or it's like nothing like I imagined it to be. And I kind of really was like, I like the criminal stuff because it's like fast paced and, you know, there's some interesting issues. You know, I just got hired at a firm that was like, we do business litigation and the partner in that area was like, I want you to be, you know, my protégé, you know, I want, I want to teach you how to do this.

You know, I couldn't get a job. It's very, very, very hard. At least that I've seen to get a plaintiff's trial firm straight out of law school. They want you to give. work at a defense firm for a while. And so I, you know, I did that, but then I just said, you know, I don't really like that. And I got liked business.

So I started going that way and similar to what you were saying, you know, some doors open, some other ones closed and you just sort of Eliminate things you don't like and then all of a sudden you end up where you are. And so, I'm with you, you know, for anybody that's young. It's okay not to know where you're going and, and you're probably going to pivot a few times along the way.

So, take me through. So you, you worked at a firm at least right out of law school. How many firms did you work at before you started your own? And take me through that progression.

You've got all the things lined up for you. You just got to take the step and believe that this is going to work out. And I was like, you're right, you're right. There's never going to be a perfect time. And I shouldn't, you know, listen to all of that. That's just a distraction from something I knew that I could do if I just started it.

So I took his advice and quit my job, which was a very difficult thing to do. And, you know, I guess the rest is kind of history. I mean, we're out here for eight years now. So it would. Certainly the best decision I made at the time, but it certainly was a lot of anxiety surrounding it.

Jonathan Hawkins: So that's interesting. So, you were planning to start a firm with another attorney and so you had made, I guess you guys have been planning and then all of a sudden. he or she's like, I'm out.

D. Margeaux Thomas: Yeah.

Jonathan Hawkins: Wow. It's like rug pull rug

D. Margeaux Thomas: know. Yeah, I was like, wow. So,

it's just me.

Jonathan Hawkins: did they stay at the firm? Did they go somewhere else?

D. Margeaux Thomas: They ended up going in house

Jonathan Hawkins: they're, they're sending you work, hopefully, but yeah, so, okay. So you're planning to do it and then all of a sudden the person backs out and then you all of a sudden you're like, maybe I don't do it. And so I, it was You know, your husband, I guess, helped give you a push and then you just said, all right, I'm just going for it.

Right. And so, you, it sounds like maybe you had already sort of set up at least semi, some of the infrastructure that you were going to be able to step into.

D. Margeaux Thomas: I have very little infrastructure and that's what I like about starting law firms. I mean, you really don't need that much. I mean, it's not like a retail store. It's not a restaurant. Like, you don't need a lot of staff. You don't need a lot of equipment. I had like a laptop. I was working out of my house. I was working.

I don't know how many clients I'm going to bring in. I don't know how much money I'm going to make. And I had two, my twins were two when I started this firm. So I had, you know, daycare expenses that were through the roof. So I really wanted to keep it as lean as possible for as long as possible. I

Jonathan Hawkins: up sort of a, a war chest that could give you some runway?

D. Margeaux Thomas: used retirement

Jonathan Hawkins: Hmm.

D. Margeaux Thomas: but I ended up not meeting the retirement savings. Like I took it out. Thinking I would need it, but my first year ended up being profitable and I didn't need to use any of the money that I thought I was going to need to use to keep it afloat.

Jonathan Hawkins: So when, when you started, did you, did, were you able to take clients with you or did you, did you start with none?

Jonathan Hawkins: Wow. So, okay, in your mind, you were very fortunate that that happened, but in your mind you were going to go with no clients. So what were you going to do to go get clients? What was your plan?

D. Margeaux Thomas: My plan was to tell absolutely everybody that I know what I do. And go to any, go to lunches, go to happy hours, join every networking organization I can, just pound the pavement and say, this is what I do. And if you know anybody who needs this service, when I was in BNI, I was doing all the things. I mean, my whole day was like traveling around meeting people.

Somebody said they had an open office and I went to talk to them and they were like, well, by the way, I'm being sued on blah, blah, blah, and I don't really like my attorney. Do you think you can help? It was a huge case. I had no idea. And he was like, here it is, and transferred it to me that day, which was, insane to me.

And I was like, wow, like I wasn't even here talking about that. I was here to, to look at an office and, you know, ended up settling the case. It went well. I mean, that was another year of funding, just kind of opportunities like that kind of just presented. I

Jonathan Hawkins: So true. You just got to get out there. You know what I tell people it's really two principles Nobody knows who you are and those that do don't remember you So you just got to constantly be out there and reminding people who you are what you do And like you said, you know stuff will just start coming.

Sounds like,

D. Margeaux Thomas: mean, I think those are tough years and, you know, I try not to have any regrets, but you know, I've made a lot of sacrifices during that time frame to. work that hard to get the phone to ring. Like, that was my life, you know what I mean? I spent a ton of time doing that.

Jonathan Hawkins: well, let's talk about it. So, so I've got twins also there. 14, 14 and a half. And one of them had some very, very serious very serious issues out of, you know, in utero. Basically she was born with cancer. And so it was just, oh my gosh, it was crazy. She's fine now. That's good. But even without that, you know, twins, that's a lot.

And I, frankly, there are huge chunks of that time that I just really don't even remember cause I don't know if I was barely awake, tell me how you are feeling, what was it like for you?

I will, you know, I will do whatever it takes to make the phone ring. And that was my sole focus at the time that, you know, a lot of other stuff, I feel like was not, I was dropping some balls and other like. that I couldn't see it.

So how did you, you know, in the early years you were grinding it out and you probably still work hard today, but how did you over the years start to structure your firm and set it up so you could, You know the new book buy back some of your time or whatever get back some of your time to focus on some of these Other things how did you do that?

And how did that evolve every time?

So, you know. Hiring a really good bookkeeper. I was doing all of that myself. I'm not great with numbers and accounting and spreadsheets. And I've heard you talk about spreadsheets and how you love them in other episodes. That is not my thing. I am not great at Excel. Like, I hate spreadsheets. But they love spreadsheets.

Jonathan Hawkins: It is hard to litigate and have to go to court and go to a hearing deposition And spend the time you need on your firm for sure. I know it You know, it's what you described there, you know others Call it the who, not how, you know, you, you find the people that can do those things. You don't learn how to do it.

Then it would have just to pay somebody else to do it and it's not that expensive. It really isn't. I mean it frees up I don't know how many hours of your time that you can then go either work clients or go get clients It's it's a multiplier effect and then you just go from there. So people out there that they're they're fresh out You know go get an outsourced bookkeeper Immediately don't do that stuff.

So it sounds like you know, you've experimented or you've just You figured it out over the years about, you know, offloading stuff and maybe you're at the point now, this is, this is another sort of pivotal moment, I think, in a lot of founders, law firm founders I guess evolution is, is the point where it's offloading the actual legal work is, so where are you in that journey or have you been able to offload a lot of it or is it is it a struggle?

I know some call it, they say it's sort of an identity. They have an identity crisis with it because they're like, I'm the lawyer. I got to do this stuff. What's your mindset?

Right. So we were in federal court. There were, you know, typos or missing this or miss sites. I mean, there was no room for that. So it's hard for me to. Review, work, and see any kind of inconsistency and not be like, you know, what about this and that and this and that and, you know, it's hard to get out of that because that takes a lot of time because you have to be in the details of the case to even be able to make a lot of these observations.

But, you know, I think bringing in a managing attorney to look over the more junior attorneys will hopefully shift that and I won't be the person, like, going over the cases to make sure that the proper steps are taken. At least I hope

so.

It's funny, you talk about all the reviews of these briefs, it's funny, you've probably experienced this too I remember, you know, you, you, you'd write a brief, you're the, you're the junior or whatever, maybe in the mid, and then it comes back with some change, and then it goes up, and another change, and by the end of it, it gets changed back to what it was in the beginning, a lot of times, you're like, oh my gosh, but yeah, that, that is a, you know, that is a huge challenge, I think, for, for all lawyers. And uh, are you uh, taking any steps to try to get over that? Are there any, any, methods or any advice you have for others that might be thinking about it?

D. Margeaux Thomas: You know, I think the biggest step is just allowing room for other people's Right. Because I think it's easy to think that whatever way I would do it is always right. And, you know, that's not true. So, you know, just kind of just internal discussions that I have with myself when reviewing things as part of it.

And I remember the, it was a husband and a wife dentist and the husband was the main dentist, right? That had all the awards, and then the wife was like the more back office person. And one day we asked him, you know, like, how good of a dentist is your wife, right? And he was like, you know, she's not me. But no client would ever know, you know?

Like, she's good enough that, you know, there's no, like, big errors, like, nobody's, like, kneeing to death, like, there's no malpractice claims, but, you know, to me, I look at her work, and I'm like, that's sloppy, but to the client, You know, it all works, you know, and I'm like, that's, that's the difference, like the client, it's good enough, right.

And it's hard for me to be okay with good enough, but I think that's part of the process. Right. 80 percent and 100 percent aren't that big of a deal at the end of the day if we can get to the same result.

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Jonathan Hawkins: So as you sit here today, you know, take me through sort of a typical Day or week you know, how much time is are you spending on the business and versus in the client work?

And then. You know, I'm lucky enough to have people who can execute on that and I can just kind of review it at the day, which I like. But I think the next step is really to move out of even that.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah, I saw a a very successful lawyer who's built a big firm with others Talk about you know, sort of the journey. I think one of the questions asked was, you know What what do you attribute sort of the success to or whatever and he said? that he basically blocked off one day a week to work on the firm and he just, he kept it religiously.

I'm going to work on the firm, not in client work. It's on the business type stuff. And he says, don't do it on a Friday because you'll, you'll end up with a three day weekend every weekend. So, And so I've been trying to do that. And it's just, you block it on, I block it on my calendar. I'm going to be doing, you know, stuff for the firm, not, not client work.

D. Margeaux Thomas: I wish I was better at time blocking, but I really just fit it in wherever I can. I think it's helpful to have an accountability partner because I have a business coach that I meet with. So I'd like to show up. And not say I haven't done anything since the last time we met, so that kind of like, gets me to do something. And you know, I really see the benefit of some of the administrative changes, you know? More so than some of the, you know, more so than the legal work. You know, the legal work is there, but like, you know, hiring a person or onboarding a person or letting go a person has, you know, a huge effect on, you know, the firm.

And those things are so important that I spend a lot more time on those than I did.

Jonathan Hawkins: So we talked about sort of what you did in the early days of your firm to go get cases. What sort of stuff do you do now for it to, to generate the work for your firm?

And, you know, I haven't spent a ton of time looking at that, but, you know, I do track how many leads we bring in and how many conversions we have in a month. And I mean, it's dramatic based upon how much, how many more reviews we've gotten and how that's increased. So a lot comes from that. I do a lot of podcasts. I'm in, I'm on the board of. A couple of organizations that I'm very involved in. I've met a lot of people through those avenues. I don't know, it's weird that I feel like I'm at a point where I've met, I feel like Northern Virginia, Fairfax County is the biggest county in Virginia, and whenever we get a new case, I'm like, who's on the other side?

And as soon as they enter appearance, I can give you the, you know, the explanation of how that's going to affect the trajectory.

Jonathan Hawkins: so I'm not going to ask you how old you are, so don't, don't. But I've always heard it's, it's, you know, the golden years of, of law, lawyer's careers, like sort of like. 45 to 60, and it might be a little sooner, a little later, depending on, you know, when you graduate law school, whatever. But part of that is, you know, you've, you've gotten enough reps.

And they're sort of at the age where they can hire you and it's, you know, I, I do feel like if you can just do these things, you got to do stuff, but if you do them long enough, and if you can just make it sort of that period, then, and you got to keep doing them, you can't stop, but then you can just, you know, harvest all the fruits of your labor, you know, for a while, at least I don't know if, I feel like that in my career now, I just feel like all the stuff that I did, You know, 15 years ago is sort of coming to fruition now.

I don't know if you ever thought about that.

D. Margeaux Thomas: do. I mean, there were some really tough days at the beginning, and I feel like I'm now reaching the benefits of some very difficult decisions and move them. You know, a lot of weekends and a lot of nights and evenings and sacrifices, so I'm happy to be here doing that.

So, I don't know, are there any lessons that maybe you've learned from all your time in the sports field that you've brought into, you know, building your law practice?

Jonathan Hawkins: Well, I'll tell you, if you're a competitive swimmer I imagine that you have to learn to put up with pain and just push through. Even when you want to quit, you just gotta keep going. I, I mean, I can't imagine I don't know. What, what kind of events do you, do you do on the swimming? Are they long, long distance or

Like, you know, that's what I'm saying to myself when I'm swimming. Like, I know you're tired, but we're not done, right? So that's the same motto that I applied to the firm. We're not there. And just this whole, we've done it. That way all the time, let's just continue to do it, is something that I really try to move away from as much as possible. You know, we, we gotta do it differently, and we gotta, you know, raise the bar, right?

Jonathan Hawkins: So as you self-reflect what would you say sort of are your strengths that allow you that have given you what you need to build this thing?

It's like you as a superhero and you're called the negotiator. Did your son do that?

D. Margeaux Thomas: Yes, my son made a comic, and I put it on the website and it made his day, but it surprised me how many clients come to consult and are like, I read that comic, and that's so cool. And, you know, I just think it adds a little bit of you know, just comedy to my day. A very, kind of, let's say, just atmosphere, which can be very stressful, so I think it's good to have that come through.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. So what do your, what do your kids think about? You and, and being a lawyer, do they, do they talk about it at all? Do they have any thoughts?

Like, you know, and i'm like, I don't know the answer but i'm working towards that one day. So,

Jonathan Hawkins: What one day

is funny. My, my twins when they were younger, they would just hear that, you know, I'm a lawyer, I'm a lawyer, I'm a lawyer. And it took them a while. And finally, one day they said, I always thought you said you're a liar. Not, not, I guess it was my Southern accent. I don't know. No, there might be people out there that would call all lawyers that, but yeah, I thought that was, that was pretty funny.

D. Margeaux Thomas: I I definitely live by the burn the boat philosophy you know, I think that you just really got to jump in with both feet And I think that a lot of successful entrepreneurs just are a little bit more able to take risk than a lot of other people. They might not necessarily be all that skilled, but they're willing to, to push the envelope and take risks that other people aren't willing to do. So, yeah, I'm, I wish I had burned the boat a little bit sooner, maybe. Like, I was really terrified of what That looked like, but you know, I really love it. And, you know, I don't believe that entrepreneurship is for everybody, but if there are people out there who are really thinking about it and stuck in the back of their mind and they always feel like I should do this and I just really want to like, Hey, you know, like there is no perfect time. Like, you just gotta kind of jump out there.

D. Margeaux Thomas: All the time! I make all types of decisions where I'm like, I don't know what the outcome of this is gonna be, but you know, and it's not about getting it right all the time. I think it's more about learning when to pivot. Like, when you make the wrong decision, recovering from it, right? It's the same in sports, you know, we're not gonna have perfect games, but if you can alter what you're doing to like make it not so bad of a loss or, you know, That's what it's about, like, just not being so down that you just keep going down this negative trajectory.

Like, if there's like a toxic person in your work environment, you know, you just can't let that You know, get bigger and bigger and take over, right? So, I have lots of spokes out. I mean, I spend a lot of time looking in the mirror saying, I've got this. I can do this. Like, you know, I'm a wolf, not a sheep.

Jonathan Hawkins: Well, it's funny you, you know, not you, but one, me, person you have this self doubt, you're like, I'm not doing it, I'm not doing it, I'm not doing it, and then all of a sudden you stop and it's three years later and you look back and you're like, damn, I actually did a lot there. You're always, I'm always caught up in the moment.

I forget sort of what happened or where I, where I came from. So you've talked about. Just how early on and and still it's just law is a busy all consuming type career even if you're not trying to build a business you add that on top and it's just you're just busy all the time and In addition to being busy it it can be very stressful And so what are some ways that you manage the stress part of it?

I mean, it's just kind of like my time. And, you know, it's very difficult for me to take a day off. But it's not very difficult for me to swim, right? I'm on a team. They expect me to be there. They need it a certain time. So for me, I kind of like a commitment or accountability is a huge piece of it. I know that about myself.

Like if I put something out there in the universe and tell somebody I'm gonna be there, I'm gonna do this, I will do it. So, you know, that's that's key for me, to have that sense of community and have people who are waiting for me to be there or ask if I don't show up, where am I? So, you know, that helps me kind of maintain balance, having

I might that's actually I may take up swimming. That's really that's

D. Margeaux Thomas: They actually have underwater ear pods that I

Jonathan Hawkins: no Don't tell me that don't tell me that

D. Margeaux Thomas: I've never used them, but people have them, so they figured out a way.

Jonathan Hawkins: So You know, there's ups and downs, as we've talked about in owning your own firm and being an entrepreneur but as you look back, sort of, what do you feel is sort of the best thing about it in your mind?

D. Margeaux Thomas: I just, I like the ownership of it to say that, you know, to look back at where I started and to see people who have bought into the vision that I, you know, was in my mind for so long. When my staff members say, you know, I just, I like the community that we have here, like more than anything else.

Jonathan Hawkins: you've created a really nice firm. You've done a lot. You've sacrificed a lot. You've put a lot of time and sweat and energy into it. As you sit here today, what, what's the vision for the future? 10 years out, 15 years out. What do you think you want this thing to look like?

So, I think that's, that's the future of all, like, getting away from this. Terrible billable hour requirements, and I mean, we don't have billable hour requirements, but you know, just billing people by the hour, I think In and of itself has a lot of issues, so, you know, that's, that's our goal.

Jonathan Hawkins: so let's, the subscription thing. Let's talk about that. So, I mean, you're a basically litigation firm. I know you probably do some advisory work. How do you envision implementing a subscription service into your firm?

And we want to make long term clients, not just litigation clients, but we want to provide value through the life cycle of people's business. And how do we do that over time without them having this up and down and up and down and unpredictability of the bill of liability? And there's a lot of people who feel like that can't be done in litigation and whenever you say that, people are like, no, that's just like not possible, but, and most of the people who do it aren't doing it in litigation, from what I find, but I think that that is the natural transition of the system.

So, so yeah, I think, I really think that is the wave of the future. So, well, cool. So real quick if I'm a lawyer out there and I'm thinking about starting a firm, what is the top piece of advice you'd tell me?

D. Margeaux Thomas: Just do it.

Jonathan Hawkins: What'd you say? Don't do it?

D. Margeaux Thomas: I said just

do it.

Jonathan Hawkins: just do it.

D. Margeaux Thomas: Just start.

Jonathan Hawkins: I agree with that. Well, Margo, this has been real fun. Thank you for coming on. It's been it's been fun getting to know you and your journey there. For anybody out there that wants to get in touch with you or wants to find you, what's the best way?

D. Margeaux Thomas: So feel free to reach out via email. You can reach us at Team Thomas Law plc or website Thomas Law plc. We're all over LinkedIn, so I'd love to connect with anybody there. We post a lot of content on there and happy to speak to anybody who's interested in starting a firm. I, I love entrepreneurship, so I'm a huge promoter of it.

Jonathan Hawkins: Yeah. Well, cool. Well, again, thank you for coming on. It's been fun.