Leadership necessitates an ability to pivot in response to the inevitable changes that life presents, whether within our organizations, relationships, or personal endeavors. The crux of today's discourse centers upon the pivotal process, articulated by our esteemed guest, Dr. Wayne D. Wilson, who emphasizes that true transformation originates not from systems or strategies, but fundamentally from the individuals involved. Dr. Wilson, an accomplished leadership coach and consultant, advocates for a profound understanding of the human element in leadership, asserting that authentic connection and integrity are paramount to navigating transitions successfully. Throughout this episode, we delve into the intricacies of Dr. Wilson's framework, which guides leaders from uncertainty to clarity, fostering trust and collaboration amidst change. Join us as we explore how one can effectively lead oneself and others through the complexities of organizational transformation, ensuring that the essence of leadership remains rooted in meaningful relationships. A pivotal moment often arises in the realms of leadership, organizational dynamics, and personal relationships, compelling individuals to initiate transformative change. This episode delves into the essential nature of such transitions, emphasizing that the real challenge lies not simply in the inevitability of change itself, but rather in the manner in which we choose to respond to it. Our esteemed guest, Dr. Wayne D. Wilson, has dedicated his career to assisting leaders in navigating these tumultuous waters. He advocates for a transformative approach that prioritizes wisdom, integrity, and authentic connection, asserting that genuine change is rooted in the relationships we cultivate. Through his innovative 'pivot process,' Dr. Wilson elucidates how leaders can traverse from uncertainty to clarity, and from dysfunction to trust. This framework serves as a guide for those facing transitions, empowering them to lead with confidence and purpose. Dr. Wilson’s extensive experience as a leadership coach and consultant uniquely positions him to offer insights into the complexities of organizational change. He articulates the importance of interpersonal relationships in fostering an environment conducive to growth and accountability. By drawing on his personal journey and professional experiences, he outlines the critical elements that underpin effective leadership during periods of upheaval. The conversation invites listeners to reflect on their own leadership practices and consider how they might implement Dr. Wilson's strategies within their respective spheres of influence, ultimately striving to embody the principles of integrity and authenticity in their leadership endeavors.

Takeaways:

• Effective leadership necessitates a profound understanding that transformation is fundamentally rooted in relationships, rather than merely in strategies or systems.
• The pivotal process of navigating change emphasizes the importance of pausing to assess current circumstances and internalizing personal values before establishing a clear vision.
• A leader's ability to lead authentically hinges on their capacity to foster trust and connection with their team, thereby enabling a culture of openness and collaboration.
• The internalization phase of the pivot process is critical, as it compels leaders to reflect on their feelings and beliefs about the changes at hand, which many leaders tend to overlook.
• Change management is not solely about executing tasks; it involves engaging others and facilitating their willingness to embrace the envisioned future.
• In times of uncertainty, humility and the courage to seek input from diverse perspectives can significantly enhance a leader's effectiveness and foster a supportive organizational culture.

Links referenced in this episode:

• CoachDrWayne.com
• LinkedIn.com/in/DrWayneWilson

Have you ever reached a moment, A moment when your leadership, your organization, your relationship, or even your life require a pivot?

The challenge isn't that change is coming.

It's how we respond when it arrives.

Today's guest has spent years helping leaders navigate transformation, not just with strategy, but with wisdom, integrity, and authentic connection.

He believes that real change begins.

It doesn't begin with the system.

It begins with the people.

Through what he calls the pivot process, he's helping leaders move from uncertainty to clarity, from dysfunction to trust, and from simply surviving change to leading it.

Well, if you're facing a transition leading through uncertainty, leading through uncertainty, or helping others navigate change, this conversation is for you.

Stay with us today.

I'm honored to welcome Dr. D. Wilson, Wayne D. Wilson.

Dr. Wilson is a leadership coach, consultant, speaker, and trusted advisor who helps leaders and organizations reconnect with purpose, realign with integrity, and reignite performance.

Known for his unique ability to combine strategic clarity and emotional intelligence with ethical leadership, Wayne helps people navigate change while maintaining trust and authenticity.

His leadership philosophy is built on the conviction that lasting transformation begins with relationships.

Whether coaching executives, leading cultural change initiatives, or working with teams in transition, Wayne creates environments where honesty, growth, accountability, and trust can flourish.

Today, we explore his powerful framework, the pivot process, and discuss how leaders can guide themselves and others through change with confidence and clarity.

Wayne, welcome to the podcast.

Well, thank you very much.

It's great to be here.

I appreciate that.

I'm so glad to have you on.

Wayne.

We begin every episode with the same question, because wisdom often comes from the bridge as it helps us navigate life's important transitions.

What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Keith I got my doctorate in ministry from the the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

I was in the program of pastoral care and counseling, and one of my mentors in that program was a guy named Dr. Way notes.

He's got written many books over the years.

There's many books out there by Dr. Wayne Oates.

And I was a young leader in my 20s and he pulled me in his office and as a young preacher and teacher and pastoral counselor, he, he pulled me in for some advice based on how he had seen me interacting with my colleagues.

And Keith, he said, Wayne, he said, I, I know that you want to have an impact on people's lives, but he said, I think that one of the things that you're going to need to chew on a little bit and get used to is that no one really cares what you know until they know you care.

And that was the second part, getting a pause.

Right.

The first party got my attention.

No, no one really cares what you know until they know that you care.

I have challenged that assumption, that leadership principle, from pastoring a small 100 member church to a.

To a congregation of over 2, 300 people, to leading an organization as the chief learning officer or a thousand employees in 11 states and 87 locations and founding Snyder University.

And it always plays out.

It always plays out.

And people really do begin to listen differently.

When you've taken a few minutes or a little bit of time to foster that relationship and just get to know them and genuinely connect, and they know that you really have their best interest in mind.

Their ears change.

You know, Jesus said, for those who have ears to hear, let them hear.

And I found that to be the best advice I ever got.

That is powerful because I've typically a task oriented kind of person.

Let's get the job done.

Let's get it done well, let's get it done quickly.

And I learned early in ministry too, that that doesn't play well when people are involved.

Someone always told me once before the church would be great if it wasn't for the fact there's so many people involved.

I've lived that.

Oh, brother, I've lived that.

But you had to learn that you have to slow down.

You have to take into account people's feelings, their emotions, what they're dealing with.

And so, yeah, that point you just made is for young leaders especially, it's really critical that you realize there are people and they don't.

I've had the opportunity to coach some really great leaders coming up.

They had moved from supervisor, even sometimes a commercial tire tech or a mechanic, into a management role.

And Keith, inevitably, one of the things that we would end up working on is, hey, slow down.

You know, slow down, slow down.

Take a little bit of time to pay attention to that person in front of you.

And we really tried to shift their mentality from thinking of them as a, as, as a resource, as, as a person, as a staff person, as a way to get a job done to that human being on the other side of the conversation with you.

One of my greatest challenges and joys with serving in Milwaukee, because in Milwaukee, I joke with people there.

It took six months longer to get things done there than anywhere else in the country.

Milwaukee people just process things slower.

Not that they weren't intelligent.

They just needed more time to mull over.

And so I had to really, sorry, Milwaukee people.

Yeah,.

I just learned to slow down.

Yeah,.

Yeah, it's it's, it's about making sure that they feel heard as well as getting something done.

At Snyder University, we used to, we used to really wear out the phrase that we, we, we manage things, we lead people.

So, so if you're in a management role, you're not managing people.

People don't want to be managed.

They resist being managed, you know, but they do want to be led.

They really genuinely want to be led.

They want to know somebody's out front, that they know what they're doing, that they know where they're headed, that they've got their back, that they care about them as people and that they're all going to win together in some way or another.

They really want to be let.

They want to be managed.

Right.

You have a reputation for leading both strategy and soul.

Where'd that leadership philosophy?

I kind of hear part of it in your story you started out with.

But tell us more about where that strategy of leading with the soul and strategy come from for you.

That's a, that.

That question's got a long, long story to it.

Well, take your time.

That's got a long, long story to it.

To make a long story short, there's a.

The term, the terms psyche, the term psychology, psyche really originates out of Freud, Young and Adler's understanding of the soul.

Psyche is another term for the soul.

So Greek derivative of.

Of soul.

And, and the early attempts to understand human beings was to understand who they are, how they tick and what makes them who they are.

And.

It.

Those who spend a lot of time trying to understand that have come to understand that human beings are far more complex than just their emotions or just their thoughts or, God forbid, what a lot of mental health has become these days, just their behavior.

But it's really about the essence of who they are.

And so we think of that whole package, mind, body, spirit as soul.

And my former leader, Schneider, Fleet Solutions, guy named Marty Herndon, he was famous for saying to the new employees in employee orientation, hey, if you have integrity, nothing else matters, and if you don't have integrity, nothing else matters.

And so that word integrity for him meant that you are who you say you are, you act in accordance with how you say you act, there's congruence.

And when we are soulful people and we are who we say we are, and we act in congruence with our values and all of that flows together, we're leading soulfully, we're leading with integrity.

We don't have one story during the day and another story at night.

We don't say one thing in the boardroom and another thing on the golf course, that we're.

That we're the same person all the time.

And I have spent a lifetime trying to become that person and lead in that way.

And I've seen the impact of it.

Oh, boy, Keith.

I've seen the impact of leading, the high levels of trust, the effort that people will put into their work for a leader who's leading with integrity, and it just makes all the difference in the world.

Stephen Covey really nailed this way back in the 70s and 80s when he had written the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.

And he was one of the first people to kind of go, ah, we've started to slide and think that character doesn't matter.

And Stephen Covey said, character counts.

And that's where that soulful leading from, soulfully comes from.

It's about integrity and character and congruency.

You know what I'm saying?

Does that make sense?

It does.

And I'm going to share something, a story, and I want to kind of get your thoughts on it.

I remember it's one thing to have a leadership philosophy.

You're going to be challenged with that philosophy and that attempt to lead with integrity.

I remember in my own leadership journey, there came a time at our church and our school where a staff person was being fired without going through the proper protocols that were in place to let that person go.

Here's the problem.

I agreed that he should have been let go, but the process was done wrong.

So for me to stand up for him was going to cost me a lot.

I ended up losing my board of directors, Board of education, all resigned in anger.

This guy ended up keeping his position even though he was woefully unqualified.

But I had to stand up in front, in front of the group for the congregation and say, you didn't do this the right way.

You didn't give him an evaluation.

You didn't give him a warning.

You gave him no idea this was coming.

I cannot support this.

And I'm wondering, in your own leadership journey, what was that moment where you had to make a decision where your integrity was questioned?

And you go, you know, this is a pivotal point of my leadership journey.

Is there a moment like that where you go, I gotta choose the unpopular thing because it's right, or can I choose the easy way out and kind of, you know, do what I, you know.

You know what I'm saying?

The question I'm asking, there are so many examples.

Cutting corners.

I was the I was responsible for employee relations and performance evaluations at Snider.

I'm the guy that a manager would call and said, can I fire this employee?

I'd go, no, you didn't want the process.

I've been through that story.

Yeah.

Thousand times over the last 10 years.

You may have a point and he may need to go, but you didn't.

You didn't do this properly.

You didn't do this.

You didn't treat him fairly.

You know, walk the process.

There's always a cost to that.

I don't know.

That must.

The story that sticks in my head is not one in which my integrity was challenged.

For your listeners, and particularly depending on how new you are in your leadership role, the thing that trips up most leaders is not that somebody's going to question you, it's what's the price I'm going to pay.

Right.

The story that sticks in my head has more to do with the price that I paid.

When I first went to.

When I first moved from ministry into running counseling centers, I was running a small counseling center in Statesville, North Carolina, for Wake Forest Baptist Health.

It was a nonprofit.

It was attached with the Department of Pastoral Care.

It had a board of directors.

I'll give you the general version of the story, but the story is I was brand spanking new.

My first board meeting, I sat down with the board of directors and I said, help me understand what kind of counseling center you want.

You're the board.

It's your counseling center.

I'm going to be your executive director for a long time.

What kind of counseling center are we going to build?

And they told me what their vision was, and I made sure I understand it.

So I go back to the counseling center and they had about six part time counselors that would come in from Winston Salem or from Charlotte and other places and do counseling.

And I sat down with the staff and I said, well, I've had a really long conversation with the board of directors about what kind of counseling center that they want.

And here's what they said.

Here's the direction that we're going to go, and here's the kind of counseling center that we're going to build.

So please let me know if there's a challenge with that.

Keith within two weeks, I was sitting in the building by myself.

No style.

They had all quit.

It did not fit their vision, which was why this counseling center was floundering.

The board of directors wanted one kind of counseling center.

All the staff were doing another kind of counseling, and they were not in alignment.

And all the staff quit.

I was brand new spanking executive director and I'm sitting in the building all by myself where there had been six clinical staff previous to that.

And I had to start all over.

And we built that counseling center to wild success and then added another one in Mooresville and added another one in Davie county and added another one in Elkin and took one over in Wilkesboro and we ended up having an amazing ministry and counseling center.

But we build it out of integrity about who we are and what we do and the kind of counseling that we do.

And yeah, a paid price, Keith.

And you're going to pay price and our listeners are going to pay a price.

When you lead from integrity, there's always a price to pay, but there's always then a reward for that.

So let me ask you a tough follow up to that.

How did you know that the vision that the board had for the counseling center was the right vision?

Or was it because it was the board's vision and you were hired by the board or did you align with that vision?

I was aligned with that vision, but in honesty, it didn't matter.

It's their counseling center and I'm the executive director and it's my job to execute the vision that they want because they're the community.

They, they represent the community.

I thought of it as this is the community telling me what kind of counseling center they want.

We're not going to force another kind of counseling center on them.

We're going to bring them the one that they want and we're going to be really clear about that.

And so theoretically, and in principle didn't matter, that's what the owners wanted.

But I did happen to be aligned with it, so that helped.

So let me ask another question because I think this is also something leaders sometimes face too.

What do you do if you're a leader and you don't align with the vision and direct of the organization?

How do you.

Do you try as a leader to find consensus or do you just go, okay, I'm just not.

I need to move on?

How do you council leaders who are caught in a situation like that?

So I'm going to have to ask you a couple of questions about this.

So not aligned with whom?

So let's pretend you're at a congregation and it's obvious that the leadership there, see, thinks the church should go in one direction and it's one that you disagree with in terms of where it should be.

Yeah, I've been there.

I've Been there.

It's, it's a conversation around, is there, is there a vision for moving forward that we can align on?

So if it's within the leadership, if it's the, if it's the owner of a company and their vice presidents or the board of directors, or you're a pastor of a church and you're talking with your elders, or you're talking with a board of deacons, or you're talking with, with.

If you're a nonprofit leader, 100%, and you're talking to the board, the representatives, is there a place where we can align?

What is, where's the, where's the alignment possibility?

And if there's just absolutely no alignment, then there's a parting of the ways coming.

The question is, are you going to do that voluntarily or are you going to wait till it's forced?

Right.

But it's coming.

This is just not going to work.

And we've seen all kinds of power struggles on the news and social media of leaders who force their way in, and eventually there's parting of the ways.

And if there's not parting of the ways, there's a ton of resistance.

Right?

You've experienced that.

Oh, yeah.

There's just a ton of resistance along the way.

And then when there's just not alignment, it's not a matter of if there's going to be a rupture in the relationship, it's just a matter of when.

Now, if it's your team, it's about who wants to be on board.

That's what I had to tell the counselors.

Here's what the owners, as counselors here in this community want.

Who wants to play who.

Who wants to be on the team?

Nobody wanted to be on the team.

I recruited a new one.

As a matter of fact, when I started communicating to the community what we were doing, I had four.

I have a psychologist called me, wanted to join me.

One of the best psychologists I've ever hired.

He's now the.

He's now the clinical director at Liberty University in their psychology program.

He's a fantastic psychologist.

Dr. David Jenkins called me, said, I heard what you're doing.

Let's talk.

And so I had people calling me, but we were really clear about the vision.

So you got to be courageous if it's your team and saying, it's okay if you don't want to stay, but here's what we're going to do.

This is where we're going.

I love it.

So let's talk about the pivot process for Those aren't familiar with your, with your work.

The pivot process, what inspired you to create it?

The pivot.

The pivot.

The pivot came from my pivot.

I pivoted from ministry and my 20 years in mental health at the counseling center, running counseling centers, to doing coaching and then to corporate leadership at Snider.

So I went through a pivot and I founded Pivot Coaching and Consulting.

When I left the hospital, I left mental health and really shifted my, all of my work to coaching.

That's another podcast, another day.

What the difference is in that?

But I, I made a personal pivot, started a business, and I created a pivot.

And, and in reflecting over that over the next 10 years, I then went to Snider.

I pivoted again.

Snider hired me as an internal coach and to found Snider University and develop all the learning and development for that thousand plus employee company.

And as I reflected over that change, it was, it was a matter of what is the process of change that I went through.

And lots of people talk about managing change and that there are stages of change, but they don't only talk about what are the stages that the leader needs to walk an organization or other employees through.

And I pinned it down and ironically it, you know how we pastors think it, it turned into P I V O T. And so it just fit nicely into Pivot, my own pivot and the change process.

Pause, pause in the present.

Take stock of what's going on, do some analysis of what's really happening, get the facts, really look at what's happening, pause in the present.

So we do that in my, in our coaching.

We, we get, we, we stop and we take a look at what's going on, what are all the facts, what's going on, and then the part that most leaders don't like.

And then we go, the next step is we have to internalize.

And this is, this is the set.

Every leader wants to skip this step.

And, but that we have to take some stock as to, is to how do I feel about that?

Is it congruent with my values?

Do I like the direction that we're going?

What don't I like about the direction that I'm going?

The conversation we just had, what fits my values, what doesn't fit my values, how do other people feel about that?

So we have to internalize a little bit, do some internal reflection, some soul work.

And then when we have a true understanding of what's going on and we've done some internalization, some reflection on it.

Now we can build a vision.

Now we go to V. So now we create a vision of the future.

A compelling, driving, motivating vision of the future that I want to buy into and others want to buy into.

And we're all willing to join.

You know, you can't come, you can't pass your congregation if you're the only one going.

Right.

John Maxwell says, if you're out front, no one's following you.

You're not leading anything.

So people have to follow you.

They have to want to go.

So you have to create a vision that pulls people with you.

And then, and only then, can you create a strategic plan.

Can you operationalize that strategic.

Strategic plan, put it into a plan, get a tactical plan, get an operational execution plan.

Then you track it.

T. Then you track it.

You got a timetable for it, then you execute it.

P I V O T. The book outlines that process, walks through that from my personal journey and from leadership with others.

And it's a book.

It's a process that your listeners can take and just do themselves in the midst of any pivot, any transition point, use the process.

And of course, that's the process that I coach people through as a leadership coach.

So I know I've worked a lot with congregations and change.

And you're right, they don't like the I.

They don't like the internalized, internalization pain point.

Because we want to get from.

Okay, let's pause to.

Let's jump right to the vision.

Because that's fun, right?

Yeah, it is fun.

Yeah.

Or we jump from the pause to us execute something.

Let's.

Let's just do something.

If we're not doing something, then we're just wasting time.

So how do you slow people down and literally kind of encourage them to work out the tough part?

Connor would say the critical mass point where people are starting to understand the iceberg is melting.

All of us have some of that in our.

In our change process.

Until I realize there is a critical mass that has to change and there's.

There's something that's wrong.

We're never going to get to the part where vision can take off.

So how do you coach people to spend the time in I.

Because it is so critical to get alignment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, count the costs.

Count the cost.

You've been here as a pastor.

Every leader on this podcast has.

Has been in the position where you know something's got to change.

You've take.

You've done the P. You've taken.

You pause, you've Taken an assessment of what's going on, and, you know, something's got to change.

And maybe four or five people get together and they go, all right, here's what we're going to do.

And you got a vision and you're going to move forward, and you preach it and you talk about it and you put a strategic plan together and no one wants to do it, and no one's joining you, and you're pushing everybody to get anything done.

No one's signing up to volunteer.

No one wants to stay late when there's work to do.

What is happening?

And the leader and the owners or the board of directors are going, what is.

Why.

Why is this so hard?

Well, how many others did you ask?

Well, nobody.

We're the leaders is our idea.

Well, and you can't execute it by yourself, can you?

Because you didn't ask anybody else what they thought and how they felt about your plan and what that would cost them and whether or not there was any advantage to that for them or whether they believed in that.

And maybe you start down that road and all of a sudden you realize, oh, we didn't think about this.

Oh, that.

That isn't what I thought it was going to be.

No, because you didn't take the time to really pray over it, think about it, examine it based on your core values.

You didn't listen to that little gnawing part of you that said something's not right about this, and you just forged forward because you had to get something done.

So you didn't do the personal reflection and you didn't ask other people, and now you got a ton of resistance or it's not working.

So let's talk about discernment for leaders.

How can leaders differentiate between a temporary challenge and a genuine need for maybe organizational transformation?

Temporary challenges.

Will respond to input from other people.

So if a leader has the courage, and I do mean that, I genuinely mean it when I say if a leader has the courage to pull different people in from the organization at different levels.

So if it's a church, you're pulling in people who are sitting in the pews.

You're putting.

Pulling people who drive the bus on Sunday morning, you're pulling in Sunday school teachers, you're.

You're pulling in the elders or leaders.

You get people at all levels of the organization.

And if you have the courage to say what's, what's not working about this, and they give you some clear perspective on that, and you can change the tactic and get progress really quickly, it's a temporary problem.

You had a tactical problem.

If you pull all those people in and they stare at you and they won't say anything, you got a bigger problem because they don't want to tell you the truth.

And now you got an organizational problem.

And that's going to require some honest reflection and a lot of dialogue and work in the pivot process, because now you got an organizational shift that needs to occur.

When people go silent.

I've heard this.

I heard this.

Another executive coach say this last week.

When people go silence, it's not affirmation.

You know, it's not, oh, yeah, everything's fine.

We agree.

Everything's fine.

Oh, no, it's not that.

When they go silent, it's, we're not going to tell you, but there's no way we're doing this.

I just heard, I think it was Ryan Leak at a conference to say when the, when the room goes silent, you create an echo chamber.

Oh, yeah.

Any at the, Any questions?

No one says anything.

You do not have, you do not have alignment.

No, you have an echo chamber.

You have an echo chamber.

Right.

You're all by yourself.

So that's, that's just, that's a deep, that's a deep dive time.

That's time to, to really take some, some assessment is when no one's willing to give you feedback.

Yeah.

So I just did a podcast on my short leadership podcast about leading when, when things are uncertain.

How can leaders maintain confidence when they don't have all the answers?

Hmm.

You know what I've noticed?

You know, when I learned this, I learned this really painfully myself.

I would be willing to bet you that almost every leader listening to this podcast is fairly competent in getting things done, or they wouldn't be.

They wouldn't have been tagged for a leader, or they wouldn't be ambitious enough to start their own business, or they wouldn't.

It just.

We are very good at getting things done, but sometimes that makes us, dare we say, arrogant, and then we're not willing to humble ourselves and ask other people and get input from other people.

And I think humility, the ability to humble yourself and just get other people's insight, other people's perspectives is probably the key to that, to that dilemma is, is the humility to open yourself up and ask other people and just not assume, well, I'll fix this.

I'll fix this myself, or I know.

I know what to do.

Well, ask some other folks what they think and what they're seeing or what they're seeing in you and, and really listen, really be willing to listen.

Those are, those sound easy, but they're not easy to do.

So I'm going to ask you this question.

As you think about the pivot process, which of the five pivots do you think is the most difficult one?

I 100.

I internalize 100.

We're doers.

We're the leaders.

We're doers, and we want to get things done.

That's how.

It's how we got where we're at.

We want to get things done.

It's the mature leader who's willing to get in the room by themselves and really listen to themselves, listen to their spirit, listen to their.

What's going on in their thoughts, listen to where they're uncomfortable, where they're, where's.

Where's their uncertainty.

To get in a room and ask other people genuinely what they think and listen.

And really listen.

And it's really hard to do.

And so the, the, the internal work is the hardest work to do.

The reflection, the values clarification, the listening to other people, it's the hardest work to do.

All the leaders want to work on the strategic plan.

They don't want to work on themselves.

Let's fix other people, right?

No, it's everybody else.

I was talking to an experienced, really, really seasoned, experienced, retired coach that was helping me today, and we were laughing because we both had the same experience of most corporate leaders who have climbed the ladder and gotten the executive leadership.

The problem is always everybody else.

It's not them.

Right?

And then, and then the consultant gets into the organization and guess where the bottleneck is, right?

To the, it's.

It's to the very top.

It's, it's a blind spot that that leader has not been willing to see or not seeing it.

Nobody wants to do that work.

So that's the hardest.

That's absolutely the hardest.

So what do you think the biggest misconception people have about effective leadership?

It's not about knocking things out.

It's not about getting things done.

It's not.

It's not about your ability to get things done.

The moment that somebody tags you as the leader of a team, it stops being about your ability to get things done.

Have you ever thought about that?

The moment, even just from frontline worker to supervisor, it's no longer about your ability to get things done.

It's about your ability to lead a group of people to get something done.

So all of a sudden it's about your ability to inspire people, motivate people, people to want to work for you, want to do things for you, with you.

It's not about you anymore.

Oh my gosh, that's so hard.

And so we spend a lot of time and energy trying to force people to do things that we want them to do.

And we haven't yet learned how to bring them along and get, I don't know, pick a word.

Alignment, collaboration, cooperation, buy in, pick a word.

But, but it's all about, it's all about that shift from individual contributor who are really good at getting things done to a team leader.

I just had that conversation with a guy who had been tagged as the president of the company and we were sitting on a coaching call.

And the truth is, the honest truth is he had hired a great team of vice presidents.

He had become the president of the company.

He was really, really, really good at getting things done.

Keith.

He didn't know what to do with himself.

He was bored because he didn't know what to do because he had always gotten his personal fulfillment on and knocking things out, getting things done, crossing things off the to do list.

And now he had other people doing that and he didn't know what the deep thought work was, the analysis work was the, the projection work done, the community work done, the one to one conversations with DPs, the accountability, the delegation.

There's all kinds of things that he needed to learn to do and he didn't know how to do them yet.

He was a president of the company.

He didn't know what to do.

Wow.

So, Wayne, we're going to have some fun now.

This has been a really deep conversation.

Lightning round stuff.

We'll find out more about you really quickly here.

Coffee or tea?

Got coffee all day.

Morning person or night owl?

Used to be a night owl.

Now I'm a morning person.

Okay, one word that defines leadership.

Influence.

Most influential mentor in your life.

Dr. Wayne Oates, Dr. Wade Rowett.

Two people.

Your favorite leadership book,.

Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

Stephen Covey.

That's the second time somebody just gave me that book.

Classic.

None better ever.

None better.

No.

Thought you're gonna say good degree.

I just saw good Jim Collins in a conference just recently.

Yeah, that's a good one too, but it's not the best.

Yes.

So, beach or Mountains?

Beach.

100% Beach.

Yeah, I love my flip flops.

One habit you never skip.

One habit I never skip.

Yep.

Never Skip my first 30 minutes in the morning with my, with my heavenly father.

Never.

Best leadership lesson.

You learn the hard way.

Integrity matters.

A phrase you find repeating Often no.

One cares what you know until they know you care.

Most underrated leadership trait.

Listening.

Listening.

Really listening.

Yeah.

Favorite way for you to recharge.

Scuba diving.

Being underwater with no one who can text me or call me.

You and the shark good sharks?

The sharks are fine.

I love the sharks.

They don't text me.

And they don't start a conversation.

They don't text you?

They don't text me.

If you could have dinner with one historical leader, who would it be?

I want to have dinner with the apostle Paul.

I have so many questions.

I think it'd be fun to have dinner with Peter, too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He'd probably drink all the wine, though.

And eat all the pork.

And eat all the pork.

One word that describes trust.

Oh.

One word that describes trust.

Congruence.

What's one thing every leader should remember?

Habit number five of the seven habits of highly effective people.

Seek first to understand and then to be understood.

Looking back over your career, what leadership lesson took the longest to learn?

Shut your mouth.

I love it.

I'm still working on it.

I'm still working on it.

I get it.

What accomplishment are you most proud of that doesn't appear on a resume?

There are four counselors that worked with me who own their own counseling centers.

There are three chief executive officers, COOs, or presidents that I coached at Snyder University who now lead other people, now lead other companies, and people all over the country who put their people first that I've had the privilege to impact, and that'll never show up on a resume.

It's one of those things that I'll get to celebrate when we get there.

That's awesome.

What gives you the most hope about the future of leadership?

I love our young leaders.

So excited about them.

So excited about their.

Their thirst for authenticity, for genuineness, to be real.

And this.

This connecting with.

I love.

I'm so excited about this next generation of leaders.

Really excited.

It's awesome.

Yeah.

Wayne.

We close every episode with the same question.

Because ultimately, leadership is about the difference we make in the lives of others.

What do you want your legacy to be?

I think what I want them to put on my tombstone is he made a difference.

Right?

I was called into ministry because I wanted to help people.

I wanted to make a real difference.

And now that's never left my heart.

It's never.

It's never left my calling.

My.

My job has changed.

My title's changed.

The people I serve has changed.

But the desire to have an impact on people's lives and make a difference in.

In the world through those relationships.

That's.

That's the legacy I want to leave.

For listeners who want to learn more about your coaching, your leadership consulting, your speaking engagements, and find your book, the Pivot Process, where can they connect with you and follow your work?

I try to make this real simple.

CoachDrWayne.com is a webpage where you can get some information about me.

There's a place to book an appointment.

Booking an appointment.

Don't be afraid of that.

It's a free conversation.

I don't charge you for that.

It's a.

Can I help you?

What's going on?

Let's have conversation.

I start all my coaching with relationship.

So it's just a relationship call.

Don't be afraid to click that button and book a call and have a conversation.

And the other place is LinkedIn.

Everything you want to know about me is on LinkedIn.

And you can go there to my LinkedIn profile, Dr. Wayne Wilson, and find me there.

And you can read almost anything that you want to.

Some of my contents there, some of my podcasts are there, lots of my newsletter articles there, and I've got posts there.

So lots of information there.

All right, as you wrap up this, another thing we do now is a surprise question.

Pick a number between 1 and 10 for your surprise question.

7.

7.

Would you rather have unlimited sushi for life or unlimited tacos for life?

Should I eat healthy or should I eat what I want?

I take the tacos.

I. I should take the sushi, but I'd take the tacos.

Yeah, I don't like raw fish.

I'd probably take the tacos.

No, I like sushi.

I do.

I like it, but if I had to eat it for the rest of my life, I'd rather eat the tacos.

There you go.

Yeah.

Well, Wayne, thanks so much.

What a wonderful.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Appreciate being here.

Thank you so much.

So one of the most powerful decisions that in today's discussion is a transformation begins with trust.

Before people will follow a vision, embrace change, or commit to growth, they need to know that you're valued, that they're valued, respected, and understood.

So here's my challenge to the listeners this week.

Identify one area of your life where you need to make a pivot.

Maybe it's a relationship, maybe it's a leadership habit.

Maybe it's a conversation you've been avoiding.

Maybe it's changed, you've been resisting.

Then ask yourself, what's one courageous step I can take this week toward the future?

I know I need remember pivots don't happen all at once.

They happen one intentional decision at a time.

And every meaningful bridge we build begins with the courage to take that first step.

If today's episode encouraged or inspired you, please subscribe, leave a review and share it with a friend, colleague, pastor, executive or leader who could benefit from this conversation.

Until next time, I am Dr. Keith Haney, reminding you that becoming a bridge builder starts with trust, grows through courage, and creates transformation that lasts.

Thank you for joining the show and thank you, Wayne, for being a guest.

Thank you.