In episode 8, we read Genesis 7:1-24, and we learned about the flood that covered the Earth. In this bonus discussion, we are joined by Liz Miller to discuss The Flood at a deeper level.

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Voiceover

You are listening to the Bible breakthrough with Pastor David Engman and Scott Brekke. In this study, we will break down the Bible from B.C. to A.D. chronologically while offering historical context and real life application for today. This series is brought to you by the Breakthrough Media Network.

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Pastor Dave

Hi, my name is Pastor Dave Engman, and this is my co-host, Scott Brekke. Today we're joined by Liz Miller, our The Bible Breakthrough production manager. Welcome, Liz.

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Liz Miller

Thank you for having me.

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Pastor Dave

Yeah. We want to welcome you to the Bible Breakthrough as well. Thank you for joining us. And remember, ultimately our goal is to lead you into a deeper, more intimate relationship with Jesus.

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Scott

And welcome. This is our bonus video to episode eight. Here we're going to discuss various topics that came up because of the scripture we covered in this episode. Also, again, the show notes will be linked in the description of this production.

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Pastor Dave

OK, so in the episode that we just completed, we read Genesis 7:1-24 and we learned about the flood that covered the Earth.

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Scott

Yeah. So before we dive into deeper discussion, let's again pray. Liz, do you want to give us the honors?

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Liz Miller

Oh, me, on the spot! I was not prepared for this. Yes, I will pray, Father. I just ask that you open our minds and open our hearts and just give us your wisdom as we explore this deeper. Help us understand the questions that people are asking and let us answer those questions; that people walk away from this and just feel inspired and just feel plugged in and really fed with the stuff that we are discussing today. In Jesus’ name.

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Scott

Amen.

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Pastor Dave

Amen. All right, so, Liz, why don't you go ahead and just take a minute and just tell us a little bit about yourself and your role with The Bible Breakthrough.

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Liz Miller

Sure! So I am a… so I'm on staff with Breakthrough Ministries. And… I also have a business and a family, and my expertize is all the nerdy stuff. So online presence and the Internet and stuff like that. And then for The Bible Breakthrough, I am the one that's posting on Facebook and asking questions and encouraging people to like our posts and follow us and all that.

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Pastor Dave

Along with taking the video that Shevaun is editing. And then you load it and then put it into and release it on a schedule, and all that.

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Liz Miller

Yes, I put it out into the world on our podcast stuff and then YouTube and all that.

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Pastor Dave

Well, we're honored to have you on our team and we love you. We're grateful you're here. Thanks for joining us in this bonus content discussion in regards to the discussion of the flood and so forth. Let's review just for the audience listening here, some of the facts and key points of Genesis seven. You want to start out with that, Scott? You want to do that for us?

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Scott

Yeah! All right. God tells Noah to go into the ark and then the animals and Noah's family enter into the ark. And then we have the earth is flooded by the underground waters erupting and rain comes for 40 days. And then every human being and every animal dies except for those who are saved on the ark. And then the flood covers the earth for 150 days before starting to recede.

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Pastor Dave

Very good.

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Scott

Thank you. (laughter)

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Pastor Dave

All right. So, you know, in our in our episode discussion, we had kind of gone over and discussed some questions that came up as a result of that. You know, the question was the first one was, what do you see or observe when you read the story? We talked about the brutality of consequence really to the wickedness of sin.

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Pastor Dave

We talked about the beauty of God's saving grace for humanity.

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Pastor Dave

We talked about why the destruction of every living thing was necessary. And then we talked about if that God's response to… that this is God's response to an unchecked sin that and wickedness in the world...

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Pastor Dave

You know, one of the things we didn't talk about in question, and I think we should, you know, in this bonus content discussion is, you know, if that is God's response to unchecked sin and wickedness in the world, what hope is there for any of us, right? Like, how do we know we're not… whether or not we're Noah, in this case, righteous, considered righteous? And if we're not, then… then what? Right?

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Liz Miller

Um hmm.

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Pastor Dave

And then how can any sinful, mortal human be loved by God and find peace with God? What is righteousness? That was a discussion topic. What does that look like? So… yeah! So, I'd like to just open the floor a little here to discuss these topics and more. What do you guys got?

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Liz Miller

I think the first thing that, especially when I first read this, and then read it again in preparation for this and then listen to the episode… the first thing that caught me was the fact that it had never before rained before ever. And then also, so… what we learned in the beginning before this is that everything in the world was watered by the springs. Right? And so it says on here that eventually it starts to rain. And those springs erupt.

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Pastor Dave

Hmm.

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Liz Miller

You know what I mean? Like, I don't know why, but every time I've ever heard this story, I was thinking of just like, everyone gets on the boat and then it starts to rain. But, like, the drama, could you imagine the drama of, like, these springs from the ground erupting? I think, like, of the geysers, you know, in the parks, like, everyone is just like… exploding up from the ground, and then water's coming down from the sky for the first time ever, like… I don’t know…

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Scott

It'd be a kind of crazy, the first time you've seen that when that happened. Oh, my goodness!

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Liz Miller

Yeah. Like, I think especially for the people on the wrong side, of the door, that that sudden realization that the choice isn't yours anymore. Like, you've made your choice, and now here's a consequence. You know what I mean? That's a good point. That was super... I don't know that that hit me like. Like a truck, you know? So… Yup!

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Scott

What do you think of that door? What do you think of that door just… it doesn't say Noah grabbed the chain and pulled the door shut? It just said that God, like, shut the door behind them! Yeah. Just, you know, I just think of, like, someone taking a door to our studio and all of the sudden it just instantly closes. Like, that would be… like when I'm in that?

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Scott

Whoa! How’d that happened? God, just shuts them in there. So what do you guys think of that? That God just closed it? Away with the door, and he just shut them all in there.

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Pastor Dave

Well, that and the fact that he did that, he told them to get on board, and then did that, and then waited seven days before the rain came, which you know, you wonder about why. Why did it have to wait? Why did they have to wait seven days? Like, what was the point of that? Right. Now, I would love to dive into the ideas that we have.

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Pastor Dave

First of all, as an example, you know, God shutting that door was essentially taking away Noah's… The propensity for Noah to just bring others in. Not that we have an indication that Noah would do that. Because he shows his obedience and follows instruction well. But maybe God was just protecting Noah because, you know, Noah might have just, you know, maybe, who knows? Noah might have turned around and said, all right, guys, I'm shutting her up! I'm shutting it up!

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Pastor Dave

But God already had that plan and knew that there was maybe a motive, different motives that might have caused somebody that, you know, want to get on that boat. Yeah. So he was almost protecting Noah from that, by shutting that for Noah.

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Scott

Yeah. I love that. It's God who does that? Like God's the one who shut that door. It wasn't Noah who shut that door. It was God who does that… like... All right? Now's the time where it has to happen. I'm the one who does it. Not necessarily the… someone who… a person who does that.

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Scott

And I'm just trying to relate to, like who? Like who is the one to say to someone that you're cut off? Right! But God does that part. He's the one who was able to… like I mentioned before, now's the time to be saved. It's still available today, but there's a time when the door is going to shut! And you don’t want to be outside of that door!

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Scott

I think God's like desires that everybody gets in the boat. He doesn't want anybody not to be saved. He wants all the come to saving. But the realization is that not all choose to be saved, because… so…

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Pastor Dave

That reminds me of the marriage supper of the lamb. You know, this is after the second coming of Christ and you know, we read reverence throughout the New Testament, especially, of course, how Jesus is the gatekeeper. You know, there's going to be a marriage supper at the end where all the guests who are invited can come in and join. But then they will shut the door.

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Pastor Dave

And that goes back to the story that the ten virgins and the oil, and the in the idea that we are to, you know, really be prepared. And half of them were and half of them weren’t. And the half that weren't, were shut out. Mm hmm. They weren’t prepared. And it's an illustration right here at the beginning of creation story… of the beginning of what we call history, where we can start to see some things that we'll start to see a whole lot more of later on.

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

Patterns that will emerge. Yeah. Right? So… yeah, that's a… it's yeah, it's God saying, look, I'm only going to put up with this for so long. There is an end to how much I will put up with. And once I make that decision to end it, then it's ended and we're going to move on.

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Scott

Yup. Is it a little harsh? Like, think of… wiping out… I mean, it doesn't say how many people are on the Earth at that time, but only what eight souls are saved. Everybody else is wiped out. I know, Liz, you mentioned earlier that, you know, it says “all” which unfortunately, I'm guessing that there probably were, guess what, men, women and children all at that time.

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Scott

Yup! So, isn't it I mean, it's just the severity to sin and the consequence. But at the same time, it… it's you know, it's hard, I think, to imagine that.

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Liz Miller

Well, I think that it's good to imagine that, though, because I think that there were, you know, as a as a parent, you know, we're all parents here. And so you may or may not be a parent listening, but as a parent, you have a responsibility to understand what righteousness is and make sure that your family is counted as righteous.

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Liz Miller

You know what I mean? And that you're on that path. And I think that in in that time of Noah, if the parents weren't righteous, then the whole family wasn't. If they were, I mean, and I'm sure this was this was, you know, in the chapter, you know, previous to this, they're talking about some of the craziness that was going on.

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Liz Miller

I mean, it wasn't just you know, your every day, you know, sinning and people that weren't believing. I mean, it was there was some crazy stuff going on and the whole family would have been engaged in that, you know. So but I think it's really… I think you bring up a really important point. And this is something that I was talking about earlier is that a lot of times we're talking about Noah and the ark and the animals and there's a rainbow at the end.

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Liz Miller

I mean, just this morning, my three and a half year old was telling me about the rainbow and God's promise. And I'm so glad that that's the version of the story they're telling in preschool. But we at some point have to grow up and realize that the story, this story of Noah is such I mean, there's so much tragedy in it!

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Liz Miller

Like God's heart had to have just been shattered at the fact that his creation… all of his creation but Noah had turned against him and didn't even… I mean, these people probably didn't even know his name! Like to be as disobedient as they were. They weren't even thinking of the Lord… of God, you know what I mean? Like, it had to have been just awful!

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Pastor Dave

Well, and too, it's important to recognize, again, letting the scripture speak for itself. And early on in this scripture reading, it says, the Lord says in Genesis seven, verse one, I can see that you alone are righteous.

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

You know, God sees into the heart of all man.

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Liz Miller

Yup.

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Pastor Dave

And all God saw was evil, sin, wickedness… in the hearts of every human being at this time. Yeah. Except He says, I can see that you alone are righteous. And so to your point, I would say, yes, it seems a little harsh, but let's just remember… we're talking about serious business here! We're talking about eternity.

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

And what I'm really hoping and praying is, is that people begin to feel that weight, the heaviness of such a consequence that if, you know, if nothing else, that then would get their attention. Would get your attention! If you're listening and, you know, you just rejected God and you've been rejecting him or running from him, your whole life…

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Pastor Dave

I pray that that maybe even in this conversation, you know, God would touch your heart and he would convict you and that you would just say, hey, if you're real, that's what I did. If you're real, I need to know you're real. Come in and do what your word says you do. Come into me and become the Lord of my life.

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Pastor Dave

And I think if… when we all do that, you know, I mean, I'm speaking, of course, for believers now, but I think we kind of know.

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

I did! I knew! I started to recognize the signs. Oh, yeah. Then my attitude changed and, you know, and things that used to matter to me didn't matter as much anymore. I began to really understand or feel convicted about my about the sin that I was doing, participating in whether I was doing it intentionally or not.

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Pastor Dave

So, yeah, it, you know, the word says later on in the word, it says that as a result of the fall, as a result of this, the fall of that fall occurred in the Garden of Eden. OK? And the participants being both Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden, not allowed back into the garden. We don't read a whole lot more about the garden, after. There was something special and unique about the garden.

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Pastor Dave

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Pastor Dave

And so sin… you know, there's absolutely… the Bible says that we are born spiritually dead. It says that we are at enmity with God, which means that we're at war with God and born God-hating. Now, I don't know that I could ever bring myself to believe that even when I was young, that I ever hated God and was “God-hating.”

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Pastor Dave

But it had nothing to do with me. Mm. Hmm. It had everything to do with sin.

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Scott

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

And so the only hope we have to overcome this problem is Jesus… that’s it!

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

If there was another way, God wouldn't have done what he did with his son! He wouldn't let his son go through what he did. But, you know, we learn all of this as we go forward, continue to pick it up and understand more and more. But that was a, you know… was it harsh? Yeah, it's harsh!

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Pastor Dave

It's harsh! Sin is responsible for death! Yes. OK? And I mean this passionately, you know? I think the world in general, this is how the enemy works. He's twisted it. The world in general blames the giver and creator of life when we ought to be blaming the one who brought forth death. And that's the enemy of our soul.

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Pastor Dave

That’s Satan and his legion of doom, if you will. His demons. And he created this. And so let's not blame God for something God didn't do. Man chose ultimately to disobey. God keeps patiently giving us the opportunities over and over. He's patient! But to a limit.

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Liz Miller

Right. I think really the awesomeness of the whole thing in the brutality of “everyone's going to die.” So, I just feel like you can see God searching the hearts of every single person on the planet. Right? And had he not seen Noah's heart, I believe 100% everything would have just been wiped out, and he would have started over.

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Liz Miller

But in the process, it's like he didn’t not check every single heart. He checked every single heart. That's how he found Noah. He found Noah, so in this chaos of like, the ultimate broken world, he sees this one guy out of everybody, there's Noah! And so his plan, if it ever had been to destroy everything, he's like, you know what?

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Liz Miller

OK, I'm going to make this guy build a huge boat and save some of the animals. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like that's so profound. It's almost as profound as of how brutal it was. It was that God would have never destroyed the entire planet before checking every heart of every single person. You know, like…

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Pastor Dave

That's grace!

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Liz Miller

There’s so much goodness, and mercy. Yes!

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Pastor Dave

You see it both on display right there. Grace. Grace.

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Liz Miller

Yes.

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Pastor Dave

And Mercy. He gave, you know, because Noah didn't have a redeemer. Yeah. He didn't have Jesus. He didn’t have a redeemer. But what he had was a relationship.

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Liz Miller

Yes.

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Pastor Dave

So, you know, you see how important relationship is? It was the only one left! The only one that remembered God was Noah. He had a relationship with him.

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Liz Miller

Yeah! And I think, I don't know, that's to me, just as profound as like, you've got this, like, catastrophic devastation, but then you also have this, like, amazing thing that one guy mattered that much because he had the relationship with God. It was like, now you get a big boat… that you have to make! (laughter) Yeah.

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Scott

When you were talking about… that Jesus was the only way… that was like… There was only one boat that saved everybody. You know, like, there are multiple boats out there. I think I just appreciate that way of how God does it, that there's not all these different ways and things that you got to do. It's just bang, one way… one way to be saved. This is it. There's nothing else.

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Pastor Dave

Well, I think you…

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Scott

It’s not confusing to me.

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Pastor Dave

You're hitting on a very powerful point. And of course, I know we're going to talk more about this in the episodes to come because I… but it's a bit of maybe a teaser here, but you're going to see, if you haven't already. I think you're touching on it. You're going to start to see the parallel.

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Liz Miller

Mm hmm.

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Pastor Dave

OK? There's a… there's a door.

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Liz Miller

Mm hmm.

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Pastor Dave

There's one man.

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Scott

Yep. Yeah. Mm hmm.

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Pastor Dave

And that one man was responsible, by God's design, for saving the world.

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

It was through that one man the world was saved.

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Liz Miller

Yup!

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Pastor Dave

Do you see a parallel?

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Scott

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

He had to leave. He had to go… You know, he had to get in a boat. He had to go. He had to leave. You see that in Abraham? He had to leave. You could see that in Moses. Mm hmm. You know, he had to leave. You can see that in the Israelites having to leave, and God was always leading them.

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Pastor Dave

Where? To a promise! He was always leading them to a promise! And what… Well, I mean, so, again, teaser! But this is what's coming. These parallels that we're going to start to see unfold.

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Scott

Mm hmm.

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Liz Miller

Yeah, that's true. That's… I think my favorite thing about just the Old Testament in general is just like, as you once you get especially as we go through and the beginnings into the next era, that's when you start to see a lot of that. And then also in these first… these first stories, you start to see the beginning of the understanding of the character of God, too.

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Liz Miller

So when we're talking about grace and mercy, that's a character of God that follows through. You see it through the entire Old Testament and into the whole thing. So I think that that's kind of a cool thing, too, about when we talk about the story of Noah, is, you know, there's certain parts of the Old Testament where it's super clear of the character of God and what he's like and that he's consistent through the through the ages and through the eras, he's the same.

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Pastor Dave

Mm hmm.

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Pastor Dave

Yeah, and in this story, God warned, clearly warned the people.

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Liz Miller

Mm hmm.

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Pastor Dave

Through the actions of Noah, clearly warned them about what was going on. Yeah. And the actions of their sins. God clearly provided a way out. There was hope. Yeah. They weren't in a hopeless and situation. The whole world, though, was hopeless. Hopelessly lost. Yeah. But there was a way out. Another parallel, you know, that we get to draw upon.

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Pastor Dave

And what was it? That was the saving grace. It was obedience.

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Liz Miller

Yes.

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Pastor Dave

He had to be obedient. He had to do exactly what God told him to do. Noah had to build the ark the way God told him to build it. He had so much time to do it.

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Liz Miller

You know what I think is super interesting, too, about that? So remind me again, how many years did Noah spend building that boat?

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Pastor Dave

We're not totally sure.

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Liz Miller

It was a while.

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Pastor Dave

A hundred years.

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Liz Miller

So let's just say it's 100 years. But when we talk about obedience, I think a really interesting point that I see is that Noah didn't choose to be obedient once when he got on the boat. He had to wake up every single day and be obedient every single day. Because I would think that, I don't know, a year into it, I mean, as a wife, if my husband's out there in the backyard building a boat and I've never seen rain… (laughter) I probably am not making it super easy on my husband to go out and do this boat project he's got going on.

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Liz Miller

Do you know what I mean? But Noah had to choose to be obedient, even if his family did not understand. And really, I kind of feel like it doesn't necessarily say this, but I kind of feel like Noah was the… I mean, he was responsible for his family, and he was teaching them to be righteous, and he was teaching them about God.

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Liz Miller

But he clearly was the one that had the strong faith and the obedience, you know what I mean? And so I'm sure he came up against a lot of… a lot of stuff in there. And so he was obedient to get on the boat and to bring the animals on the boat and do everything in the order that God said.

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Liz Miller

But I think it's just amazing that… and it's an application point. I feel like for us is that when God tells us something there's the obedience in the daily thing leading up to the thing, you know what I mean? Like, sometimes it's not just this big thing that you're going to do in 100 years, but there's obedience points throughout that whole journey.

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Pastor Dave

Yeah.

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Scott

What do you guys think of the animals? (laughter) What do you mean? You know, just like, oh, the world… all those animals how’d they get there? How did they get on the boat? How did he feed them all?

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Liz Miller

Oh, my gosh!

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Scott

How did he, you know, how did clean up all the…

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Liz Miller

Let me just say.

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Scott

Waste from the animals… all that!

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Liz Miller

I have four dogs! At one point we had seven. Well, we rescue dogs. That's what we do.

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Scott

You could build a small ark!

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Liz Miller

I know! But, Iike… so when you say that, it just makes me laugh! It’s like… I just can't even imagine. You know, I've heard some fun thoughts on this, though. And one of my favorite thoughts on this is that God brought Noah like baby animals. Yes, God! Because like, could you… I mean, because you think about it, and they were like, baby animals kind of helps you understand.

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Liz Miller

And it makes sense of the Bible because it's just like, you know, I don't know that I would want to be the one to go and take care of the adult lions. Do you know what I mean? Because there's seven pairs of adult lions or seven lion pairs of lion cubs, like, oh, you know? So I thought that's a cute...

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Pastor Dave

I don't think there was seven pairs of lions. Only seven pairs of the food that was acceptable, by God, to eat. Right. And to offer a sacrifice. So…

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Scott

So you're saying they set aside animals that are for eating and for sacrifice, right?

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Pastor Dave

Yeah. So he was saying, I mean, you know, it's in here. I have to find out where it said it…

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Scott

I think that as he finds that, like I thought of… like when I started first thing about it, I was like… so I'm thinking of dinosaurs getting on. Like a humongous T-Rexes entering the boat. Yeah. And really, I just did a little research into like really the size of an average land animals about the size of a sheep.

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Scott

So it's not as big as we typically think all these animals were. Right.

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Pastor Dave

So we said, you know, take with you seven pairs, male and female of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice and take one pair of each of the others. So I don't know that they were eating lions and they might have been, but I doubt it.

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Liz Miller

I doubt it, too. And but it's still I mean and it doesn't say the age of the animals, but these animals would be responsible for… So they were on the boat for a year, right? Around a year. And the animals were going to be… the purpose of the majority of the animals was to repopulate the earth. So they would have brought young animals that were able to reproduce.

00; 29; 21; 29 - 00; 29; 26; 56

Liz Miller

So… I still just… I'm just going to continue picturing baby animals all over the ark.

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Pastor Dave

So the boat comes to rest on the top of Mount Ararat, which is I think in today's… Yeah, it's in Turkey. Mm hmm. So, you know, and of course, this is just an interesting thought. That's all… question. Maybe. So that's on one continent.

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

There's seven continents on the globe. So how did all these animals end up on all these other continents? That's just a thought. Yeah, maybe it was… You know what I mean? Think about that!

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Scott

Yeah. I don't know. I've never thought about that.

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Pastor Dave

And maybe, I don't know. Maybe as the waters receded, the land. I don't know… Speculation there.

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Scott

You're just saying, like the… obviously they wouldn't be able to swim across the ocean to get to some of the other continents.

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Pastor Dave

Right. I mean, birds can fly. We get that. But…

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

But, you know, I don't know. Well, of course, connected to Eurasia, right, Europe and Asia is Africa. So clearly they could walk from, you know, from that region to Africa through Egypt.

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

So we get that. But what about, you know, North America, South America, Australia, you know, those big land? I'm just… food for thought. I don’t know how that would have happened. Maybe we'll discover that later on.

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Liz Miller

I'm sure there's like a difference of how things, you know, looked. Like, there's a land bridge. Well, I don't know that it's a land bridge, but like from Alaska, to Russia is like not as far as you would think. I can't remember how many miles it is.

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Pastor Dave

Yeah, maybe there was…

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Liz Miller

Like little…

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Pastor Dave

Was the ocean maybe a little lower?

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

We didn't have all this global warming…

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Liz Miller

Yeah, right! (laughter) That's a whole other bonus episode!

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Pastor Dave

But, you know… Yeah. So maybe that's a deal. Maybe the water was…

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Liz Miller

Lower?

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Scott

So with the animals being in Minnesota, as our location here, I've always wondered like, why didn't Noah stinking kill those mosquitoes? You know? Why didn’t he kill two little…

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Liz Miller

It’s like, thanks, dude!

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Scott

He could have erased that whole episode of the mosquitoes.

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Pastor Dave

Do you think that God ordered a pair of mosquitoes onto the boat? They’re insects. Right.

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Liz Miller

Yeah. I don't remember reading insects on there.

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Scott

I don't know.

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Liz Miller

It reminds me of, like, what is it? What is it? The roach or… is it a roach? A cockroach? Yeah, like prehistoric. I mean, they've been around, like, you just can't. They probably just buried themselves in the ground.

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Pastor Dave

Yeah, who knows?

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Scott

What about the fish?

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Pastor Dave

Well, what about the fish?

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Scott

Did they die?

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Pastor Dave

I don't think so. Do you think they died?

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Liz Miller

I don't think that they died because it doesn't say that they did. And it doesn't say that the plan was that the marine life died. So, like, when he talks about wiping out the… all the humans, he's talking about the… he goes into detail about the animals, the types of animals that are going to go and you don't see anything about insects or fish or marine life at all.

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Liz Miller

So I think that that's really interesting because, you know, and I've thought about that too, like, well, could they have survived a flood, you know, and absolutely the fish who just stay underwater and don't need to come up for, you know, but there are certain I think there are certain marine lives that would have probably perished because, you know, they survive in different levels of the ocean.

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Liz Miller

So there's different temperatures in the ocean. And as the ocean completely changed, you know, I'm sure things like coral died and I'm sure that.

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Pastor Dave

Man, are we conjecturing!

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Liz Miller

I know! But…

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Pastor Dave

Speculating!

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Liz Miller

But it doesn't say that in there. So...

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Scott

Pure conjecture! I guess this, like, you know, of course you talk about the fish, it’s like Nemo swimming around, and all of a sudden he’s 29,000 feet higher! Just like the water starts rising.

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Liz Miller

No anemones to hide in.

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Scott

Yeah. Did you guys know… the water…Did you know that like OK so sometimes people will say well it wasn't a global flood. It was just like a smaller flood that was out there. But 71% of the earth is made up of water. Which leaves 29% of the earth made up of land. And then in that, in that scripture it says that 22 feet above the highest peak.

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Scott

Yeah. Today the highest peak obviously is Mount Everest at 29,032 feet. OK. That is a lot of water and a lot of rain like you had talked about earlier, like the water is bursting forth, and then like torrential… I mean just think about today is just the worst rainstorm you've ever been in.

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Liz Miller

Right.

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Scott

That probably ain't got nothing on what happened here!

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Liz Miller

Absolutely not! Well, and if you think about it though too, it said it is 22 feet above the highest peak, that the highest peak is what you said is Everest. Yeah. How could that not cover the entire world? You know what I'm saying? Like because it's the highest peak. And if the water is covering the highest peak, it covered the entire world.

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Pastor Dave

Well, one of my interesting tidbits is that did you know that marine fossils have been found above the snow lines of the Himalayas?

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Liz Miller

No, I did not know that till I snuck a peek at your notes while you were getting Skittles. (laughter) I did not know that.

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Pastor Dave

You know? So, I mean, is there any question that the flood occurred? You know, in the other cultures, we've talked about this in episodes past Yeah. Other cultures from their traditions have talked about a great flood and all of that stuff. I mean, there really shouldn't be any doubt, especially when we're finding fossils up in the top of the mountain peaks.

00; 35; 13; 36 - 00; 35; 50; 01

Pastor Dave

You know, in this whole issue of sediment, it's just, you know, as you like for us, you know, we're obviously trying to prepare well for these episodes. And so we're doing some study and research and, you know, stumble into some of these things about, you know, even in modern science today, doing what they call it… when they measure time based upon… what’s that stamping, they call that stamping?

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Liz Miller

Carbon dating?

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Pastor Dave

Carbon dating. Yeah. Thank you. But, you know, in the fact that that's not an exact science. Right. I understand. I don't know. I can only speculate based upon other people telling me or information I'm getting, but I understand that you know, carbon dating isn't an exact science that they can prove actually works. And with the idea of sedimentation, when the Earth was flooded to, was it 22 feet you said? Above the mountain top, but the sediment that would have settled it would have settled as it as the water receded it would have settled in different levels.

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Pastor Dave

So you can see that when you go, you know, like where we live in Minnesota, we tend to take trips out to the Black Hills and we out there in the Black Hills and you can see the beginning of the mountains. So you could see all those lines of sedimentation. And it's just interesting, you know, even in there, they find fossils and then they found footprints and dinosaurs, you know, bones and stuff here in North America.

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

What about the dinosaurs what are you guys thoughts about that? Like where in history did the dinosaurs exist?

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Pastor Dave

Was it pre?

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Liz Miller

I think they were pre… My thought is they were pre flood and then some of them made it. I personally… I had heard some I wish I could I feel so bad and I will put it in the show notes because I will find his name because I cannot remember his name. But I listened to a talk about this because that was always that was such a thing for me.

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Liz Miller

Like, I just I couldn't get my head around that one until I heard this guy talk. And he talked about and to me it made sense. So I was thinking pre-flood and with a lot of the dinosaurs, they were you could I mean, they could have brought in eggs or again, maybe dinosaurs because that's manageable. So much easier.

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Liz Miller

I mean, babies sleep most of the time, like when you've got like a an infant animal, they sleep, you know, and so that I had never thought of that before. And that… that's how I see it now is that it would have been… they would have had eggs and.

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Scott

I don't know much other than I know they existed because we sure find fossils for them. I probably would tend to lean towards that. Yeah. Like before the flood, but...

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Pastor Dave

Well, we still have reptiles that, that, you know.

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Liz Miller

Oh yeah!

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Pastor Dave

We would say are dinosaurs a hundred thousand years from now to, you know, there's dinosaurs.

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Liz Miller

Right. Well, so this guy you brought up and I’ll put up a link so you guys can watch it for yourself because it's... Was it Ken Ham? Oh, I don't know. I cannot think of his name. But the other thing that he said that a scientific fact about reptiles is that they do not stop growing till they die. OK, so an iguana is a reptile, right?

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Liz Miller

For example, you've seen Iguanodon. Yeah? I only know this because I have a very crazy dinosaur child. He's almost four, and I know more about dinosaurs now than I've ever known in my life. (laughter) Iguanodon?! What?! OK, so I'll put a picture out, but so think about this, though. Like, if you have an iguana that does not stop growing till it dies, ok?

00; 39; 14; 59 - 00; 39; 34; 08

Liz Miller

And pre-flood things lived for a long time. Right? So imagine how big these little... These reptiles that we have today that are very small, they have much shorter life spans. A lot of the most of the reptiles that we have now live anywhere from like a couple of years to maybe ten years except for like a tortoise.

00; 39; 34; 08 - 00; 40; 04; 02

Liz Miller

But those things get huge! Right? Because. So anyways, I thought that was really interesting. And I was like, I don't know, for some reason that made dinosaurs make complete sense to me because when you look at some of them, they just look like really giant versions of the little guys that we still have, you know? So but I'll put I'll make sure that I link that up so you guys, so our audience can go and watch that talk or listen to that talk.

00; 40; 05; 00 - 00; 40; 06; 53

Liz Miller

I just thought that was an interesting perspective.

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Pastor Dave

And it is an interesting thought.

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Liz Miller

Mm hmm.

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Pastor Dave

Anything else that we haven't talked about or you want to dive into in regards to the scripture we've read here on this episode?

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Scott

Well, I just think that, you know, of course, we can always get wrapped up in all of the details. I like when I read through the story, I think of, well, how did the animals get in there and how big were they and how many were they and how, you know, how did the flood happen?

00; 40; 33; 10 - 00; 40; 55; 20

Scott

And there was that much water. And I think just for me, as you know, remember at the beginning of episode one, one, God created the whole world through spoken word. So there's nothing we can't do. So for us to think, well, can you really? How did all those animals get there and get into the boat?

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Scott

Well, I mean, it's God here! We can I mean, we see like migration of birds, even in Minnesota, they go south. They naturally know to go south. Right! Well they can… God could have instilled that in the animals. OK, I’m going to put these ones… head to the ark. And then they all came to him and he gathered them in and brought him in.

00; 41; 14; 07 - 00; 41; 22; 00

Scott

So, you know, God is… let's not limit God to what he can and cannot do. He can do anything he wants, whatever. However. So…

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Pastor Dave

He is Elohim.

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Scott

Elohim?

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Pastor Dave

Signifying his eternal power. And his authority.

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Scott

Sounds like a term from like Lord of the Rings. Elohim!

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Liz Miller

It does!

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Pastor Dave

It’s a name of God, Jehovah is the covenant name of God.

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Scott

Yeah, awesome! Elohim. I like that. Yeah.

00; 41; 46; 06 - 00; 41; 49; 24

Pastor Dave

And I'm sure I pronounced it wrong. Somebody will let me know. (laughter)

00; 41; 50; 10 - 00; 42; 02; 05

Pastor Dave

You know, we’re we are not from the land of Hebrew, you know, so we don't speak the Hebrew language very well. Greek. I'm not Greek, so I don't speak that well. We mess that stuff up all the time, but…

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Liz Miller

Plus we have the Minnesota accent, although not as...

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Pastor Dave

We don't have an accent! No… Everyone else has it, right?

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Liz Miller

Southern doesn't have an accent… (laughter)

00; 42; 14; 09 - 00; 42; 41; 27

Liz Miller

Yeah, I think, I think what's I think there's so much that you don't know, but the stuff that we do know and I think that is really important to, you know, it's important to discuss these things and have those conversations because I know for a lot of people that I've talked to, the flood is… it's like it's one of those things they just can't get past.

00; 42; 41; 27 - 00; 43; 07; 00

Liz Miller

You know, I've talked to people and I've even heard them say, I believe everything it says in the Bible. But then but that flood story, like I just, you know, and but I think some of the bigger thing for me in in that entire story is the story about just the obedience of Noah and that God had made a way for him because he was there, because Noah had that relationship and he was saved because of that.

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Pastor Dave

Yeah. So do you have a relationship with God? That's the key.

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Liz Miller

That’s the key. Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

Because that was what doomed humanity. What saved Noah! It was his relationship.

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Liz Miller

Yeah.

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Pastor Dave

And so it's all right.

00; 43; 24; 10 - 00; 43; 42; 09

Scott

And I just think go that point that you had made was that and I'm not sure where I heard this from, but, um, basically to the point of, you know, there's so much in there that you… we don't know. Yeah. And I think sometimes people get so wrapped up in the parts that they don't know. Yeah. But let's talk about the parts that are in there.

00; 43; 42; 09 - 00; 44; 03; 32

Scott

I mean, there's the reason why God put what he put in that book for us. I think maybe him knowing us, we would, you know, being a person who likes to research and dive into the word deeper. Of course, we're in the bonus material, but he put exactly what he wanted to put in here and he left out exactly what he wanted to leave out.

00; 44; 03; 32 - 00; 44; 06; 15

Scott

So. So yeah.

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Liz Miller

Yeah. The absolute certain thing is that there was a lot of power in the grace and mercy that he showed Noah, because of a relationship. And that is not something that's questioned because it’s there in black and white, concrete. You can hang your hat on it, you know.

00; 44; 23; 38 - 00; 44; 57; 18

Pastor Dave

All right. Well, we would love to connect with you our listening audience if you would like to connect with us. We're going to ask you to join our Insiders Club and we want to thank you for being a part of this, Scott and Liz. And we also want to thank you, our listening audience, for tuning in. We look forward to our next meeting together with you in episode nine as we discuss the receding flood waters and our study of the greatest story ever told here in the first era, beginnings. Thank you and God bless.

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Voiceover

Thank you for tuning in to the Bible breakthrough with Pastor David Engman, and Scott Brekke. We hope you enjoy today's episode and will join us again from the heart of the Bible. From B.C to A.D., we are a volunteer driven ministry and rely on you to help us get the word out to the world. Please, like this podcast Facebook, share it to your page and continue to listen on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere you find your favorite podcasts. This has been a broadcast of The Breakthrough Media Network.