Learn more about the most disruptive marketing software Kasim has ever seen and how you can scale your agency with it!

Kasim sits down with Robin Alex, co-founder of HighLevel, and they discuss the company's unique business model, its vision for the future, and how it extends far beyond its innovative approach to empower businesses to thrive and grow.

If you haven't heard of HighLevel, you're missing out! It's the first-ever all-in-one platform that will give you the tools, support, and resources you need to succeed with your agency. Listen to this episode now.

0:00 Grow Your Agency With HighLevel: The Most Disruptive Marketing Software

4:01 Managing the risk of customers scaling beyond their worth

6:07 How HighLevel prioritizes solutions

9:07 Robin's vision for HighLevel

11:47 Will HighLevel be irrelevant soon?

18:24 It's unreal how HighLevel is authentic and client-centric

19:07 Get a free trial and start growing your agency with HighLevel

Robin Alex on LinkedIn:  

 / robinalex  

Check out GoHighLevel.com:

https://www.gohighlevel.com/main-page...

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It's Costume with the Daily Google News, and I'm here with Rob and

2

Alex, who think probably has one of

the hardest jobs in the digital world.

3

you're the co founder of High Level,

which is the fastest growing, most

4

disruptive marketing software that

I've ever seen in my entire life.

5

do you guys consider yourself a martech?

6

is that a pejorative to you?

7

Are you okay, me?

8

yeah.

9

We're definitely in the Martech space.

10

That's us.

11

we're not a Martech.

12

We're automation.

13

We're systems.

14

We're process.

15

So I don't want to improperly

slap a label on it.

16

I'm a huge fan of GHL, if you're

watching or listening to this and you

17

haven't used high level, you don't even

have to click on my affiliate link.

18

You should, but you don't have to.

19

This thing is the amount of features.

20

Available for the money is insane

already right out of the gate.

21

But what's Impossible to fathom is y'all

don't charge per instance And that's what

22

I think really disrupted the entire game.

23

Like most software companies kept

the monetization on their end.

24

Y'all moved the fulcrum of monetization.

25

So an agency can buy high level once, for

the grand total, like 500 bucks a month,

26

if you want the nicest, fanciest version,

and then they can resell it to as many

27

people as they want hundreds, thousands

of customers and keep all the money.

28

Like it's you equip people to

be SAS companies themselves.

29

It's an unbelievable vision.

30

how did that happen?

31

Did you set out to do that

or was that by accident?

32

It was something you fell into.

33

definitely it was something we fell into

just overall through the whole thing.

34

So prior to high level, I was

running an agency and when I met Sean

35

Averroon, the other two co founders.

36

were trying to figure out how to take

the software and really get it out to

37

the masses that's the vision, right?

38

The more users you have, the more

adoption you'll get, the more money,

39

the more revenue to doing more things.

40

And I always looked at it

from the agency perspective.

41

What would I want in that perspective?

42

And I always hated the more that

I bring The more I'm getting taxed,

43

is how I always looked at it.

44

And then once you hit a certain point,

you get this like weird decision

45

point of now I'm spending 3, 000 a

month, 5, 000 a month, and now they're

46

wanting me to sign a longer agreement.

47

Do I really want to

spend a long agreement?

48

Or at that point, you now start

playing the field again, right?

49

before I commit to it, let me

see what else is out there.

50

And at the end of the day, it's

all about adoption and usage.

51

So we've always just

started out from that point.

52

And It was just us three doing

onboardings and stuff like that.

53

So we were just happy people were

just coming onto the platform

54

and we were just heads down.

55

Just keep doing that.

56

Just keep getting more

and more at the top.

57

and we never really thought

about expansion on the back end.

58

or how to expand.

59

And instead we just got public

fanfare of This is awesome.

60

And we're like, okay, so why stop?

61

Just keep going.

62

And, luckily for the three of us,

greed has never taken over a sense

63

of our mindset We've always, been

believers on if we can make the world

64

successful, it will come back to us.

65

in some form or fashion from

a positivity perspective,

66

monetization and things like that.

67

And so we've never looked at

trying to disrupt it from a

68

per user model or contact.

69

And I think where people go wrong is

you look at companies that's out there

70

that's been doing it for a long time.

71

And either you follow the textbook

method, which is what they're doing.

72

And that's the only way to succeed.

73

And people are scared to

go the alternative route.

74

And so we basically said we looked into

it or, we fell into it from the get go.

75

Why change if it's working and

Oh, we figured out how to be,

76

cashflow positive or profitable.

77

We're making money along the way.

78

why stop.

79

so that was honestly how we started

and we just kept it going into this

80

date that's us and we're owning that

lane that no one else wants to touch.

81

Dude, I love that.

82

How do you manage the downside risk of

a customer scaling beyond their worth?

83

I know you have customers

manage their own, email, like

84

Mailgun or Twilio or whatever.

85

So those would be variable costs

that you've been able to push back

86

on the agencies, which is brilliant.

87

But just storage space.

88

if I go take down high level,

maybe at 100 clients, that's not

89

so many snapshots but at 100, 000?

90

and I know you have to have

agencies that get there.

91

is there a point of Hey, I got to knock

on your door and charge you for your

92

own AWS instance or something like that?

93

over the years, uneducated doesn't

realize that data is such a high

94

variable commodity that cost is.

95

Relatively inexpensive, really, an

average account could be, a couple of

96

megs or a couple of gigs at most, on

the high end and, when you have a great

97

development team and things like that,

we're always looking at improving and

98

optimizing and stuff like that, but just

not the gate data is a lot cheaper than

99

you expect and, we have the advantage of.

100

We're trying not to predict

the future and what we build.

101

It's looking at great products

that's out there and rebuilding it,

102

retooling it in the lens of an agency.

103

We don't come in with a lot of bloatware.

104

We're building efficiencies out

the gate because agencies are

105

telling us exactly what they want.

106

So out the gate, it's a

stripped down version.

107

There's not a lot of bloatware, a

lot of sizing behind it that's going

108

to create a lot of tension for us.

109

And so from that perspective, it's

been easy for us to scale and keep the

110

overall infrastructure relatively small.

111

I love that you just said, we

don't try to predict the future.

112

not just compelling, but

what a brave thing to say.

113

and I see that in high level.

114

You're absolutely right.

115

It's we're not trying to

tell you what's coming.

116

We're just helping solve the problems

that are happening right now.

117

Yeah, we're in the trenches with you,

old analogy was, we're just gonna wait

118

until someone punches us on the chins,

and, we need this now, What's nuts

119

is how quickly you roll that shit out.

120

I've seen you guys in weeks, hey, I need

the thing, and then all of a sudden,

121

two weeks later, okay, it's shipped.

122

took me, I tell the story all the time,

it took me 18 months to get HubSpot to let

123

Appointment booking resolve in a separate

thank you page so I could track them in

124

Google Ads 18 months a year and a half

when somebody schedules an appointment,

125

instead of a confirmation message, I

need a new, and I had to go through the

126

remediation, and the impact team, and

the analysis, and the cost to benefit

127

ratio, they put me on calls with people.

128

I was an agency partner at the

time, was like, all right, they're

129

doing me a favor, and I need this.

130

Took a year and a half.

131

Y'all would have had that in 48 hours.

132

how do you ship so quickly?

133

How do you even manage

a process like that?

134

two different school of thoughts.

135

When I work on something, it has to be 100

percent perfect, 100 percent thought out.

136

And I'm thinking through every

single use case before I ship it.

137

And then there's the side of, if

you just roll it out too early,

138

people will complain, people

are going to be frustrated.

139

You're impacting support

and things like that.

140

And the perfectionist looks at

our model and they're basically

141

saying you're half assing it.

142

And for us, we're basically

saying, reality is.

143

80 percent of usage comes from

20 percent of the features.

144

Yeah, we're going to come up with that

and immediately get feedback on where

145

it's not working and what it can improve

versus you spent the next two years

146

trying to build this amazing product.

147

And at that point, by the time you get

it out, either it's no longer relevant,

148

no longer important or where's the

magical customers that's going to

149

come use it now doesn't exist right.

150

They already found another solution

because they needed it two years ago

151

when that was the hot trend or whatever,

for example, threads, that came out a

152

couple of months ago, we were the first.

153

social planning tool that had access

to that, that was building to that.

154

Oh, how cool.

155

I didn't know that.

156

So what for like social scheduling

social posting and stuff like that.

157

And there's going to be other

platforms that's trying to make

158

sure they go through all the edge

cases and stuff like that, but.

159

When that came out, it was a rush from

all the agencies of I need to be there.

160

I need to have a tool

that can help me there.

161

So are you willing to wait

two years to have your perfect

162

integration or, in the meantime,

we know it's not fully thought out.

163

We don't know all the edge

cases, nor does anyone.

164

So we're just like, bring it

on and we'll figure it out.

165

But in the two years, We've already

got mass adoption along the way.

166

definitely a different model and

we call it the skateboard method,

167

there's a lot of articles from that

methodology, but for us, it's, the

168

80, 20 rule, 80 percent of usage

comes from 20 percent of the features.

169

And then from there, the people that

maximize that 20% Usage will continue

170

to add for more and they'll tell us and

they'll give us that direct feedback.

171

And now it's bite sized updates

for the next iteration of it.

172

Where do you see high level?

173

I know you said, I don't

try to predict the future.

174

So I understand that from a feature

perspective, but as the leader of

175

organization, you guys are big, no

matter how you slay you when you have

176

600 employees, did I get that right?

177

750 750 employees, 3 million end users.

178

Yeah, MUAs, right?

179

So that's active users

that's on our platform.

180

So what's your vision for

high level moving forward?

181

Like you flash forward three, five,

10 years, do you want to see happen?

182

I want to see us continue building

a bigger ecosystem to where we

183

own, anyone attached or associated

to high level is basically a 10

184

billion ecosystem, if not greater.

185

And, the number that we like to

put out there is 9 billion going

186

into other people's pockets.

187

I love that that's development

partners, service providers, value

188

added whatever, resellers, those types,

anybody that's touching high level,

189

because you're a part of our bubble,

you're making money and think about it.

190

even our model, we use the

agencies for distribution model.

191

They get to the small businesses.

192

And as long as the agency is

using our tool, they're going

193

to help that small business.

194

Make money and provide

impact in their communities.

195

And then you have the secondary partners

and the marketplace partners who are

196

building integrations and tools not

only compounding that effect of helping

197

downstream to the small businesses.

198

cascade all of that together.

199

There's a lot of opportunity here.

200

And, 1 of the things I'm excited about is.

201

Down to at an employee level, we're

creating a certification program.

202

And so I want people.

203

To go out in the world saying

I am now high level certified,

204

please hire me because I'm

officially certified or vice versa.

205

Think about LinkedIn or indeed.

206

com.

207

People are like, I need a

high level administrator.

208

So now I see that all

the time my mastermind.

209

That's one of the biggest asks if

from a resource perspective used to

210

be everybody wanted a media buyer.

211

and I would get those calls, obviously,

but now everybody wants a high

212

level person and it's not even a

quite, it's like a ubiquitous truth.

213

They're all using it.

214

Everybody's using high level.

215

Like you guys have just penetrated

the highest levels, anybody who's

216

really doing marketing well as using

high level one way or the other.

217

Yeah.

218

And, one of the ideas early on was how do

we make it feel like it is truly yours?

219

Yeah.

220

This is where we came in with

the white labeling and, all those

221

features out the gate because.

222

The more that you feel like it's yours,

the more attached you are, and the

223

more conviction you have in delivering

the solution to your customers.

224

I'm gonna lob a grenade at you that

I've heard lobbed at me, and this

225

isn't something I believe by the way,

but let's just play devil's advocate.

226

there's too many people using high

level, there's too many agencies that

227

know, the cat's out of the bag, the

market's saturated, a bunch of people

228

are letting, free snapshots, they're

just giving away the farm, gig is up.

229

How do you respond to that?

230

it's a great question.

231

So I think what I see in the market

is a couple of different angles.

232

new businesses, so the U S chamber of

commerce put out a stat, that they look at

233

sick codes and EIN generations every year.

234

There's roughly about two to three,

maybe 4 million new EINs generated.

235

So new business entities.

236

Since COVID, that's accelerated

to almost 6 million, and I think

237

they're predicting 7 million new

EINs being generated this year.

238

Now, sure, some of them are shell

companies and blah, blah, blah,

239

blah, but what they are seeing

is new businesses starting up.

240

I think from a generational perspective,

a lot of people pre COVID were

241

working for large corporations, or

think about just your local service

242

business, some guys, a plumber

working for a large plumbing company.

243

starting to make a little money,

maybe through COVID and stuff.

244

We're seeing this transition where

people are now saying, you know what,

245

I'm going to go out and get my own

truck and be a one person show to

246

grow my own plumbing business now.

247

So there's a lot of opportunity

for the new generation.

248

So I think there's opportunity there.

249

I think the other opportunity

that I'm also seeing is.

250

years ago, the first generations

of CRM people that were, coming

251

into the working world and their

careers and they're implementing act

252

Salesforce, HubSpots and, infusion

softs and all these great platforms.

253

And they've been building on it, but those

individuals who are doing the work, right?

254

A decade ago, 15 years ago today,

they've either left the company,

255

they moved up the organization.

256

And so that knowledge

transfer is not gone.

257

And so now the new generation coming out

of college or young career individuals

258

are coming in, looking at it saying,

oh, the system is so antiquated.

259

It's built on the trends back then, right?

260

Where you had different solid newsletters

or old school websites and stuff.

261

And they're looking at it saying,

either we have to hire an outside

262

consultant to rebuild this whole

thing, or let's start from scratch.

263

And guess what, the easy tool is

us and you can put your own brand,

264

so that's where our USP comes in.

265

So I think there's a ton of opportunity

on that lane or really those 2 lanes just.

266

By easy nature.

267

So the opportunity is just never ending.

268

What pisses me off about the people

that make that claim, because I hear

269

it all the time, as a reseller, I hear

people like, Ah, I can't go resell

270

high level, everybody else is doing it.

271

no, temp, it's a canvas

that you get to paint on.

272

what are you putting in your, like have

an agency for Montessori schools, so

273

I created a high level instance that's

built specifically for Montessori.

274

Montessori funnels, automation, follow up.

275

Sequences, Like it's all just Montessori.

276

You could never in a million years

just hand a Montessorian, a high

277

level app and say here, same thing.

278

It's not.

279

So where people are being short sighted

is you guys have done such a good job of

280

saying here, customize this for any niche.

281

And until every niche in the world

has at least 10 instances, because

282

everybody wants variety, nobody's

ever going to be able to convince

283

me that high level is saturated.

284

Yeah.

285

And love that angle

because reality, right?

286

People need features, or they

think they need features, and I

287

think they're lying to themselves.

288

What they're really

looking for is an outcome.

289

And I'm seeing a lot of people get out

of the traditional agency space, and

290

they're just walking into a business

saying, How can I augment you needing

291

to hire a new person or augmenting your

staff by just building some automations?

292

Because a lot of the day to day

operational work, a lot of it is

293

centered around sales and marketing.

294

And a lot of it is just

administrative love that comes from

295

the sales and marketing, right?

296

I gotta send out a PDF to somebody

or send an email internally about

297

this payment that needs to be made

with an invoice and stuff like that.

298

if you just go in with that mindset.

299

Every business owner needs to

optimize, and they want the ability

300

to not have to hire for more.

301

They want to automate it, simplify

their process so they can get

302

back to doing what they enjoy.

303

The dentist wants to get back to being

a dentist, not sitting in front of

304

their computer trying to figure out how

do I process this invoice or run this

305

credit card payment, or teach my front

desk staff how to make the phone call.

306

If that can be automated, it

makes your life so much easier.

307

If you look at it being more of a

solutions provider or technology

308

automations provider versus

the traditional agency, I think

309

there's a lot of opportunity there.

310

And now you can always back into the

traditional stuff when the time is

311

appropriate, but it is a wide ocean

of opportunity on the automations

312

and, just bringing the tool, being

that artist for these businesses.

313

You mind if I get a

little personal with you?

314

Yeah.

315

So you're a young guy, you're

a co founder of a SaaS company.

316

On a meteoric rise.

317

I'm pretty sure that's the literal dream,

like in the eighties, everybody wanted

318

to be a movie star in the nineties,

everybody wanted to be a rock star in the

319

2000, everybody wanted to be a pop star.

320

Like we're now in the era

where everybody wants to be an

321

entrepreneur, but SAS is the pinnacle.

322

It has the highest valuation.

323

It's what everybody wants to go to.

324

you're at the top of the mountain

that sits atop all other mountains.

325

I guess that's my question.

326

It's like, how does that feel?

327

you just wake up every

day This is awesome.

328

what does that even resonate or land?

329

Or it's not something you think about?

330

I try to think about it, but

it just doesn't register.

331

one of those from the outside looking

in, it looks great, but from the inside

332

looking out, it's like, Nope, I got

a customer messaging me right now.

333

Let me go help them.

334

Yeah, I'm just answering support

tickets and doing my job.

335

think that's what makes us a

little different because we're

336

in the trenches and we enjoy it.

337

We're not trying to chase

that vision of being the top.

338

I think we just got there only because

of the organic and echo chamber that we

339

created of the value that we're bringing.

340

It's not like we're aggressively like,

you know what, in three years we're

341

going to be at the top of the mountain

and then looking at the ivory tower

342

down below in our executive suites,

we just never had that as the vision.

343

It was just, if we do a lot of great

work, a lot of people will like it and by

344

chance we'll do well behind the scenes.

345

Dude, you guys are, not to pander,

it's unreal just how authentic y'all

346

are and the decisions you make.

347

there's authenticity is great, but

if it stops it action, it's like, all

348

right, you're just being authentically

a prick now, but you guys are.

349

authentic, and then also making decisions

that really are, in the best interest of

350

your end customer, which is so unusual.

351

It's a ubiquitous lip service.

352

Every company says it.

353

Y'all are the one of the very few I've

ever seen really do it all the way.

354

So for whatever that's worth,

I super appreciate you.

355

somebody's watching or listening

to this last words to you,

356

what is it you want them to do?

357

What's the call to action?

358

talk to Kossum and, get onto highlevel.

359

com and get a trial and see if the

product will help your business or

360

talk to an agency that leverages it.

361

And I think there's a ton of

value that you can improve your

362

small business in the world.

363

Yeah, I've got.

364

and a half businesses

built on top of high level.

365

I say half because it's

not solely dependent, but

366

that's, what's cool about it.

367

You can say Oh, okay.

368

I need a little bit of this

and not so much of that.

369

And it's a fun little building block.

370

super appreciate being here with me, man.

371

I'm a big fan.

372

If you're watching, listening, go check

out high level, my affiliate links

373

in the description, Robin's badass.

374

You have to make sure you go

to the high level of event.

375

Actually, it's probably sold out.

376

Isn't it?

377

we actually sold out two days ago,

a month early, which is really wild.

378

That's great.

379

you missed out on the high

level event, but I'm sure

380

there'll be awesome recordings.

381

have some cool recordings and

stuff that we'll put out there.

382

If you can't make it, we'll

make sure that you see it.

383

Yeah.

384

My business partner, Perry

Belcher, he's speaking there.

385

I think Steve Sims is

speaking there too, right?

386

spoke last year.

387

but we have a lot of cool speakers.

388

I think 38 speakers

that's going to be there.

389

Oh, that's awesome, dude.

390

Wow.

391

That's great.

392

I can't wait watch the live stream

and I appreciate you, Robin.

393

And if you're watching this, comment,

subscribe, and I'll see you tomorrow.

394

All right.

395

Thank you