How to find success that leads to fulfilment in life & business. This episode looks a LOT deeper with my guest, Marc Convey, who's life journey includes overcoming adversity from a traumatic accident at 14. Then going on to succeed in work and business and more recently, a journey of deep self reflection.

In a world where we often judge by appearances, it's easy to assume that what we see on the outside reflects what's going on inside. However, Marc, a storyteller and advocate for the Baton Of Hope suicide prevention charity, challenges this notion and reveals that our external image doesn't always mirror our internal reality.

Marc's powerful story, shaped by his journey from a life-altering accident at 14 and years of healing and rehabilitation, teaches us the importance of looking beyond appearances. He challenges us to redefine our understanding of success and acknowledge that trauma is a shared experience, not one we endure alone. By embracing these lessons, we can foster a more compassionate and understanding society.

Marc says, "I wear my trauma on the outside. And I've made friends with the voice inside my head." He invites us to walk alongside him by the reservoir of his story and trauma, emphasising that he can choose when to dip into it and share, without becoming fully immersed in it.

In this journey of understanding, I am reminded that "You never know someone's story." It's easy to make assumptions and project our beliefs onto others, but true connection requires asking genuine, compassionate questions and truly listening. There's a stark difference between listening to understand and listening to reply.

From my time talking with Marc , there were 3 key points we all can use:

1. Question Your Perception: Sometimes, what we believe we see on the outside doesn't align with the internal reality. Marc shares his experience of working with seemingly successful individuals who, behind closed doors, reveal their fears and insecurities. Success can be a facade, and it's vital to question our assumptions.
2. The Power of Conversation: In our hyper-connected world, genuine human-to-human contact remains irreplaceable. Connecting, listening, and being authentically human can provide invaluable support to those who may be suffering in silence.
3. Be a Deep Listener: When was the last time you felt truly heard? When someone asked you a profound question? In a world where superficial interactions are abundant, the power of deep listening can change lives.

Meet Marc Convey, the incredible inspirational speaker and burns survivor from Brighton. Despite life-altering injuries from a devastating fire, Marc's resilience and determination have turned him into a beacon of hope worldwide. He shares his story and insights as a powerful speaker, promoting mental health, wellness, and chasing dreams despite obstacles. Marc is also an accomplished entrepreneur and creative professional, bringing his unique talents to various industries. Discover how his passion and expertise can help you achieve your goals.

You can reach Marc on LinkedIn here

Get in touch with Sal

If this episode has caught your attention and you wish to learn more, then please contact me. I offer a free 20 min call where we can discuss a challenge your facing and how I may be able to help you

Welcome to Mindset, Mood and Movement, a systemic approach to human

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behavior, performance, and well being.

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Our psychological, emotional, and

physical health are all connected,

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and my guests and I endeavor to share

knowledge, strategies, and tools for

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you to enrich your life and work.

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Hello and welcome.

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Today's episode is a juicy one.

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I've got a guest with me, Mark McConvey,

who I'm going to introduce in more

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depth shortly, but we are going into

talk and Unpack how finding success

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that leads to fulfillment rather

than disappointment is absolutely

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crucial in life and in business.

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Now, Mark has a huge experience in life

and business and a lot to share and I'll

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be part of that conversation as well.

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So we hope to take you on a journey

that will really take you on a

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pathway of clarity and overcoming

some of the misunderstandings,

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misinterpretations around what success

is and that way to fulfill them.

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Mark, welcome.

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Marc Convey: Thank you for having

me Sal, what a lovely introduction.

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I'm really, really looking forward

to unpacking some of the things

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that you just, talked about.

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Sal Jefferies: Fantastic.

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Mark, success, fulfillment, these

are words, they're adjectives,

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and they take us in places,

sometimes to different things.

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May I ask, what would your

definition of success be?

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Marc Convey: Wow, that's a, that's a

big question to straight off the bat.

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I like it.

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You put me on the spot.

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success for me, I've come to learn is, is

what makes you feel content on the inside.

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You know, for me, it's, it's all about.

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internal validation.

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And, but you, but I think, you know, one

needs to, to make sure that they've got a

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level of consciousness within them to, to,

to understand what actually that means.

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and, you know, I love being.

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Best friend with the voice inside my

own head, and if I can get to a place,

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you know, of that peace of mind, then,

then I know everything that's going

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on around me externally is either

adding to my life or, or not taking

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away from, from that contentment.

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Sal Jefferies: Yeah, that's a,

that's a lovely description.

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I, my definition of success today

is a very different definition of

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success when I was in my 30s and

in my 20s and of course as a child.

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And it's been an evolving thing, so

I, my definition of success feels like

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it's a constantly evolving process.

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But as I get more mature in life...

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it seems to me that it's about feeling.

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So rather than the external metric,

and there's a place for that.

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It might be a number that you need to

earn for your business or your income.

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And there's, there's a place for that.

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But if it isn't connected to a feeling

that is authentic and wanted and healthy

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and rich, then that external metric

or thing that you might be chasing

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can be a road to the wrong place.

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So that's my, my definition.

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Mark, I kind of want to start where

you're at, I know your story a

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little bit, but for our listener.

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You've been on a bit of a journey

in the last couple of years with

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huge change and all around your

work and your business and yourself.

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Maybe you could share a little more

about where you've been in the last

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couple of years and how that is.

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Marc Convey: Yeah, so, I moved down

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to launch a video production company.

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Which I ran until the beginning of

last year and I got to a point where

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I didn't feel aligned with the values

of the company or I didn't feel that I

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could be living my true self while also

running a video production company.

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And I think I'd fallen into the trap

of chasing some of those external

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things and those hard things that

we're talking about and trying to

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all about revenue and profit margins.

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So I decided after a lot of thinking

over the down, downtime over, over the

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Christmas of 2000, whenever it was 2021,

that, I needed to just jump from, from the

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train in between stations with no plan and

trust that the universe and me within it

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could figure out where I was going to go.

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So I did that and been on a

bit of a, I guess, a spiritual

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journey for the last 18 months.

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that took me via going on a year

long journey with another startup.

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called Thrive Now, and it

was very, very purpose led.

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It was really about, inside out way

of thinking, and helping business

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leaders, and trying to create a ripple

effect, you know, that would spread

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out into the world and do more good.

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But again, I realised that I'd got

to the point that it was so much

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about other people, and really, the,

the, the power of my story and my

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understanding was, was all I needed to...

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To, to one, feel fulfilled in what

I was doing and to use that from

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a now very, very stable place to

be able to, to, to help people.

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And it just so happens that I

really like helping people as well.

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So I'm, first and foremost,

I'm, I'm doing this for myself.

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You know, I'm, I'm taking

myself to the world.

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I'm trying to brand myself, sharing my

story so that I can help other people.

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You know, understand their own stories

and, and not fear them so much and, and

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yeah, it's, it's, it's led me to a, a

place where my life is in, is in great

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balance at the moment, you know, I still

need to, to monetize what I'm doing, so I

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still need to put in those, those things

that we talk about, so that I know that I

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can sustain this, but yeah, I don't think

I've ever felt better about what I'm about

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to do, and it feels authentically me.

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Sal Jefferies: That's amazing.

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That's such, such a powerful thing.

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And I resonate with so much you're

saying there about being in an agency.

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I going back a long way, I

was in an ad agency, this back

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sort of early, early part of my

career and thinking, this is it.

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This is the cool thing to do.

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And, and.

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And really getting caught in that trap,

you know, the, the, the, the trap of

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metrics, like earn more money, back at

the time I had a really nice car and it

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was all about this kind of more, more,

more, and of course the advertising world

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is, is, is very much about that to a

large degree, certainly when I was there.

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And, you know, when you sort of think...

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What am I doing this for?

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At some point, for many, many years,

I didn't think about that question.

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Like, what am I doing?

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And I think at different junctions of

your life, your twenties, thirties,

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forties, and so on, you think differently.

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So there are places for that.

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But there's something really

powerful, isn't there?

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When you check in with your own

internal, for me, it's, I call

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it a compass as a metaphor.

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That compass that says, where am I going?

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What, what am I doing?

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Why am I getting up in the

morning and doing something?

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Does it, does it resonate on a deep

level or is it putting some numbers

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in an account, which is arbitrary?

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Now, would it be okay?

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Cause I know your story personally and for

our listener, Mark's got a really powerful

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story, which of course I know you're

working, but in our, in our conversation

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today, maybe you could take us a little

more into your, your own story about

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how you've really kind of found so much.

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of coming through adversity.

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Marc Convey: Yeah.

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Do we want to, do we want to

dial it right back to the kind of

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the origins of where it started?

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Sal Jefferies: If you're happy to, it

will be, I know it's a powerful story.

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So just a kind of note for

the listener, Mark's story

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involves being in an accident.

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he's, you know, he's overcome

many, many things, but it's, it's

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a raw story, but it's so powerful.

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I'd love to hear more of it, please, Mark.

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Marc Convey: Yeah, absolutely.

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No problem whatsoever.

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You know, just to, to, look, a footnote

to that is that, you know, I've gotten

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to myself a place in life where I'm

really happy to, to share my story and

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know that it's not going to impact me.

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And I think that's really important,

for your listeners to, to understand.

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And it's something I'm

quite passionate about.

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We all can have very powerful stories

to tell, especially we've gone through

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traumas, but you've got to make sure

that if you are sharing it, that it's in

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no way going to impact your own mental

health, because it needs to, it needs

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to, you need to make sure that you're in

a good position to share it, even though

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you feel like you can help other people.

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If it's harming you, then

you shouldn't be doing it.

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So this is why it's taken me over 30

years, I think, to be able to be ready.

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to share my story.

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Not that I've been traumatized for 30

years, by the way, it's it's just that...

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Yeah, I was out there living life.

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But anyway, I digress.

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yeah, I was, burned very

badly when I was 14 years old.

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just a, a silly accident, you know,

the kind of cliched kids playing

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around with matches too close to

some petrol that went up in a garage.

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I was on holiday.

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in Ireland at the time and, somehow

managed to escape a burning garage and,

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was taken to a local hospital in the

west of Ireland where they stabilised

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me and then I was taken to Dublin, via

ambulance because there was no helicopters

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running at night time that day, a flat

line twice on the way, managed to come

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through that, was in an induced coma

in Dublin, Dublin, they accidentally

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administered, penicillin to me, which

I'm allergic to, so when I came out of

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the coma, I had to go back into a coma.

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and then it just started, once I was

stabilized and fought off, you know,

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multiple organs threatening to fail on me

and my eyesight was managed to get saved.

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It was a long, long,

long road to recovery.

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30 plus operations over two and a half

years, other challenges as well, like

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having to be able to learn to write with

my left hand because my right hand was so

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damaged and it was extremely important for

me to, to stay, with my school year and

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not drop back a year mentally for me, that

was a huge driving force in my recovery

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and gave me massive amounts of motivation.

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But I was extremely fortunate as

well that I had the most incredible

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family and community around me.

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so I was never, I was never isolated,

you know, with, with, with my trauma.

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And, you know, I had to wear a Perspex

mask for two years, 24 hours a day.

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So I had to deal with that.

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yeah, going back to school,

managed to get my...

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GCSEs, just the five GCSEs I needed

to do A levels, which was huge for me.

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but yeah, going back to school, I think

was, was the hardest day of my life.

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You know, reintegrating into a

very masculine, sporty, all boys

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school was, was really difficult,

but you know, I overcame it.

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And then probably the proudest

day of my life was deciding

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to leave that environment.

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So after I did my GCSEs, I realized that

I was wrapped up in cotton wool too much.

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And I decided that I, if I was ever going

to be able to make it to university, I

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needed to be able to, to, to integrate

more into society and not be in this

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environment where I was untouchable.

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So I left and went to a mixed sixth form

college, local, still wearing the mask

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and, and then managed to overcome that.

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And that gave me huge amounts of, huge

amounts of confidence to be able to know

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that I could make the step and get my

full independence back and, you know,

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leave home at 19 and go to university.

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So that kind of wraps up that,

that five year journey that I

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had from, from the age of 14.

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Sal Jefferies: Wow.

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That's a powerful story.

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And thank you for sharing.

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And isn't it?

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Gosh, I mean, there's so much

to kind of say about that.

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And I don't want to say too much.

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I think you've said enough.

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I've just really resonated with how

difficult that must be at such a young

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age, all of the layers, the physical,

the health, the social, the growing age.

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And absolutely amazing.

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As I, as I know you now, what

a vibrant human being you are.

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You're, you're, you do so many things.

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I'm really interested, like how your.

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How that may have shaped your worldview

and your perception around success

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and what, what that young Mark then

went on to do, how he kind of met the

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world and, and dealt with challenges,

you know, because you've been through

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a huge, huge challenge and you

obviously will continue to go through

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as you were healing over a long time.

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What would you say helped or what

kind of perception was shaped by

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that, by that, by that tragedy

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Marc Convey: Yeah, so it's a, yeah,

massively valid points you make there.

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And.

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So much, so much was, started or shaped,

in those moments, you know, in terms

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of just my own recovery, realizing that

I needed to lead the way, you know,

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I really wanted to be in control of

decisions that were being made about me.

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And at 14, there's an assumption,

especially back in the early 90s, that.

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You know, kids do as they're, you know,

as they're told, and there were too many

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conversations going on that I wasn't

a part of, and I wasn't having that.

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And it was also, you know, with my mum

being my primary carer, I thought as

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well as me taking control and feeling

better about it, I could take some

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of the responsibility of her, of her.

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You know, I've talked about this

before, that as soon as I became...

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CEO of my own, my own company,

my own recovery and you know,

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my lieutenant was, was my mum.

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So I think my own personal leadership

journey started at that point.

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And now you, you know, you, you

touched on the fact that the, you

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know, the growing and, different

things at that stage in my life.

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And on one hand, it's, it's

horrific, you know, just on the,

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on the cusp of puberty that.

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this would happen to me, but as well

as my body growing, you know, my mind

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was still developing and, you know,

in some ways I feel blessed that it

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didn't, it happened to me then and not

at 18 or 21 when so much of my being

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was, would have already been developed.

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So I was still able to create the, the,

the building blocks of my character

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that would become the I am because I was

still developing as, as, as a person and

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Some of the other things that we touched

on as well is in terms of seeking a

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bright future and hearing a lot of the

narrative that were going on around me

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and well meaning therapists and adults.

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Talking about me in a very general

way, and I was just like, that's just

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not how I'm feeling on the inside, and

it's like, I don't know what you, what

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you're talking about, you know, my mum

tells a really funny story of waiting

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outside my room in a hospital one day,

you know, And a therapist about 10 or

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15 minutes after being in to talk to

me, just walking out, shaking her head,

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going, My word, that boy could give

me therapy, and just walked out, never

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seen anything like it, shaking her head.

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Because she was sat there, and it was

like she was, you know, spouting from her

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textbook or some learnings, and, Well,

you must be feeling this, and you must

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be feeling that, and I'm like, Nope.

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I'm not, I know maybe I should be and

whatever, but I'm not, and I'm not gonna

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let you put those things in my head.

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I'm really sorry, but if you're gonna

sit down and you're gonna tell me how I'm

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feeling, because you've, you've learnt

this in some, you know, westernised,

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you know, funded, you know, course that

you've been on, that's just not who I am.

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So I used to just chase them out

the room if they were just trying

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to get me to think a certain way.

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You know, my therapists were my family,

my physiotherapist, nurse, people that

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inspired me, people that talked about

the human condition in a different

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way that wasn't from a textbook.

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And I, in the early days, I got

so much confidence and growth for

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that that, you know, I just thought

I can forge my own path here.

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And there were other conversations

going on around that.

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To me, he didn't, didn't really

paint a bright future, and I wasn't

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gonna, I wasn't gonna have that.

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You know, I said to my mum recently

that, I said I remember her having a

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conversation about how disappointed

she was when she heard that, that,

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that the burns on my face were

so deep that my, hair follicles,

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were never gonna come back.

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Because in her mind, she thought,

oh, you know what, when he

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grows up, he can grow a beard.

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And...

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And he can hide his scars, and I was,

and I was already beyond that point,

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and I kind of shocked her a bit, and

I said, look, I don't judge you, it's

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just the way it was, but I was already

facing up to things quicker than a lot

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of the people around me, and, and as I

said, you know, before that happening

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at such a young, at such a formative

age, I and I feel so privileged because

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it's enabled me to create this strength

of character, where I could ignore so

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many external forces and know that I

could rely on what was inside of me.

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But a key point to make is that

it was still incredible to have

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all those people around me.

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So I could be my own person, but

knowing that I wasn't isolated and I

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wasn't alone and that there were going

to be setbacks and I did need people

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to pick me up, but they just didn't

need to tell me how I needed to think.

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They just needed to be

there for me and support me.

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Sal Jefferies: Wow.

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Wow.

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I'm just, my nervousness has just had

a massive response from my skin as I've

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listened to everything you've said there.

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Just this kind of, wow.

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I'm absolutely intrigued.

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It's, you touch on such a good point

about, you mentioned a therapist, but it

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seems in life other people can lay or,

impose their views or their ideas on us.

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And clearly it was happening

to you at that time.

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And, so fascinating to hear a real

story of someone who'd gone through

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a trauma, had real, you know, had

burns, had all these things that are

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working through and healing from.

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Yeah.

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To have the strength of mind to go,

No, I don't actually feel that way.

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And to challenge the, the, the, the labels

or the terms that people put on you.

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And I think this is such a radical

and powerful part of your story,

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is to, for people to know, it's

like, Know, know your own mind.

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Don't let others tell you what you feel.

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Know what you feel.

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And you've, you've, you've, your story's

so powerful, it really pushes that.

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I'm also absolutely intrigued

about the environment.

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As you've said, you had the right.

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kind of team, the right caregivers

around you to help you and nourish you.

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And, and that's as important, you

know, it's kind of, I guess, social

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epigenetics, epigenetics is how genes

express space in the environment.

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And if people around us are

helping us heal and challenging

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us, but holding us and keeping that

space, that's a really vital part.

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and I wonder when we think about, you

know, success in any nature, whether it's

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as a human being, as a business person,

as a sports person, whatever it be.

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Understand that we do

need that environment.

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We do need the right kind of people

around us and it may not be that many,

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but we need that as well as, as well as

the voice inside to absolutely hear that.

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Now, the voice inside intrigues

me, Mark, and I know you and I

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have spoken a little about this.

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. I used to have a voice inside that wasn't

very nice, and, and that old voice sneaks

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up sometimes and gives me a really hard

time and tell me just how rubbish I

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really am and, and all this sort of stuff.

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And, and I've done a lot of therapy

work on it, and I've really gone

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into, and most of the time that

voice is, it's normally on side.

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It's normally a kind, kinder voice,

but it kind of can sort of segue

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back into being a, a, a militant

commander, a dictator I call it now.

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For those of us who listen to our inner

narrative, and most of us do, could

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you say a little more about how you've

managed to, that voice in your head, both

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from perhaps the earlier days and the

present day, how you've made a healthy

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relationship to that voice in your head?

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Because I wonder if the voice in our

head isn't actually one of the biggest

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blocks that we need to overcome or to

transition to live in a fulfilled way.

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Marc Convey: Yeah, I think, I don't

know, I can't remember the actual

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stat, but I think 70% of the, the

things, the narrative that goes

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through our head is not true.

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So, you know, our, the voice inside our

head is often trying to sabotage us.

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And, if we, if we talk about

the present state, the present

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day, the, you know, the...

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the bit of the, I mean, it's such

a loaded term, spiritual, you know,

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journey and whatever you want to

call it, mindfulness, spiritual

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journey, just understanding oneself.

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But the, whatever I've done in the

last 18 months and whatever you

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want to call it, you know, it's up

to you, is, is understanding that.

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You're never going to be

able to, to get rid of it.

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It's always going to be there.

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And for me, meditations really helped

that in the last 18 months, you know,

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I used to think that meditation was all

about going in and completely shutting

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it out and getting into his place

with it, where there's no thoughts,

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but something that's, that's really.

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come to me recently is

it's not about that.

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for me, meditation is understanding

that these voices are going to,

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are going to come into my head,

but when they come into my head,

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I understand that they're in play.

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And if I understand that they're in play

and I can then have control over that,

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I can then tell them to bugger off.

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So I, through that practice of

meditation, I have then been able

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to apply that to my own life.

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So, I know I've got an ego.

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I know that there are

personas coming into play.

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But what's different to before is that

I now understand when they are in play.

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And if they are in play, then

I have a decision to make.

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Do I allow that to be

compounded and let my ego drive?

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forward my actions and, and

my next thoughts, or, or

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do I tell it to bugger off?

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And it's the same with, you know,

imposter syndrome and, and all,

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all these different, different

things that we have to deal with

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in, in, in our modern day life.

368

And for example, it's, I love now going

into, I used to be so competitive.

369

And I'm so glad that I am, because

it's that competitiveness that

370

probably helped me survive, and that

competitiveness that made me prove

371

people wrong for so many years.

372

But now I love going into a conversation

with no interest in being right.

373

And now that can make you build even

deeper connections with other people.

374

I just love that.

375

Because so often before, you go in to

discuss a subject and debate a subject,

376

And then before you know it, your ego's

in play, and it's more important that

377

you prove that other person right.

378

To be free from that is, it just,

suddenly you've got so much more control

379

over that voice inside your head.

380

Taking it back a bit further, yeah.

381

I don't know, I don't

know how, how much...

382

I was faking it until I make made it.

383

I don't know.

384

That's something I'm, I'm

really exploring at the moment.

385

You know, I've started to, to

write the book about my journey

386

and I'm going to want to become

a, you know, motivational speaker.

387

So that's something that I'm, I'm

exploring myself at the moment.

388

and I had a really

interesting conversation with.

389

a first cousin of mine.

390

So I did a bit of a journey around

back to Ireland a few weeks ago in my

391

camper van because I wanted to have

discussions with key stakeholders who

392

were either there on the night of Max

and then, you know, part of my recovery.

393

because when we suffer trauma, we

don't suffer trauma in isolation.

394

And what happened to me was the

biggest thing in, in all of our lives.

395

You know, my cousin said to me, you know,

Mark, there was life before your accident

396

and there was life after your accident

and it changed everybody's lives and

397

their perspective on life and all that.

398

So for me, before, part of the, I want to

create this ripple effect of positivity

399

and the first little wave around me is my

friends and family that were there for me.

400

So I wanted to pay respect to them

and go to Ireland and say, I'm now in

401

a place where I feel like I'm fully

healed, and I want to now use my story

402

for the good of others, but I want to

make sure that you're all okay first,

403

and got all their blessings, and had

incredibly deep discussions, but going

404

back to my cousin, he said to me that,

He was worried that, because I've got

405

this really big personality and quite

gregarious, and that was in me beforehand,

406

which was a massive asset for me to have,

to be able to have a sense of humor,

407

even in the darkest of times, was huge.

408

So I think I've flooded my brain a

lot with humor and with jokes, and

409

a lot of that is about deflection,

right, and putting walls up.

410

And he, and he, and he was worried

that that was the only way that.

411

That I was coping with

what I went through.

412

And he showed me a video, video of,

Patrick Kilty, the Northern Ireland

413

comedian, and he was on a, a panel

show, and he's done documentaries

414

about the trauma he's been through.

415

and what he did was he, he makes

humor, his, his wall, his barrier

416

to stop people getting close.

417

And Colin, you know, my cousin, was, was,

was worried that I was doing that, and

418

then he could see through our quite deep

discussions that I assured him it wasn't,

419

but now that I've come away from that

conversation a month later, I think he, I

420

don't think it's either or, I think it's a

mixture of both, I think I was lucky that

421

I had this very, very strong will and a

strong mind that I inherited, you know,

422

from my parents, but that wasn't enough

To, to play all the part that it needed

423

to play in, in, in my recovery and growth.

424

So I actually think that there's,

there's a lot of value and astute

425

observation that my cousin made.

426

That, that, yeah, I did use my humor

and protect myself and played various

427

personas while I was healing myself.

428

But it wasn't, none of it

was all one or, or the other.

429

Now I'm right to the point where,

I'm really zen and grounded, and now

430

it's why, why I'm in a, in a position

where I'm not faking anything.

431

It's the, the authentic me, but I

think it's been a dull that's been

432

moving over, but from probably from the

middle point over the last 30 years.

433

I hope that makes

434

Sal Jefferies: Yeah, it

does make a lot of sense.

435

And so many pieces of what

you've explained there are...

436

Intriguing on many levels.

437

I mean, firstly, when you hear, when you

say about, humor, I've had experience

438

of that when I did my psychotherapeutic

training by my, my mentor and trainer, Pam

439

would always say that the darkest thing,

sometimes you got to bring humor to it.

440

It's not wrong.

441

You're not making a joke of anything

bad, but you're bringing that balance.

442

You know, something like tragedy

or, you know, a fire or burn.

443

And there's humor.

444

It's this almost contradictory balancing

force, which is quite natural to do.

445

So I think it's, it's

instinctive in human.

446

If you, if you take away all

the preconceived shoulds or

447

shouldn'ts, it's instinctive.

448

I know some people, used

to know some firemen.

449

They'd see some dark stuff and...

450

You go out to road traffic accidents

and things, and they'd make

451

light of it, and you'd be like...

452

And they'd explain, they weren't being

disrespectful, it's the way they could

453

handle it, it was, it needed such balance,

so I think that's, that's important.

454

That's one thing I learnt

about why humour...

455

and difficulty or extreme

things can go together.

456

You know, for you, of course, it's,

you're entitled to, it's your, your

457

trauma, your experience, and you're

entitled to do what you want with it.

458

But that's sometimes why it seems

humor in those dark times is absolutely

459

needed as a, as a human system.

460

I was really interested about the wall

you said, and something came up in my

461

world recently about, my own blocks.

462

And I see this with people I work with.

463

And to keep the story personal to

me, my blocks are often like a wall.

464

So if I have my mind gets into

a block state, like I start

465

feeling, it's a wall of thoughts.

466

Now many years ago I went to,

I saw an exhibition by, Damien

467

Hirst and he did this piece of

work which you saw it from afar.

468

It was a huge piece of work on the

wall and you thought, Oh, what's that?

469

And you had to walk towards it.

470

I was actually in New York at the time.

471

I was walking towards it and you

got closer and closer and within

472

half a meter you realize it was just

Billions of blue bottle flies dead

473

stuck to the, and it was just like,

Oh my God, it's just so powerful as a

474

piece of work because it drew you in.

475

And I was sort of checked back in with

when I've had my own blocks mentally.

476

And those walls of thoughts that come

up and they're sort of like all these

477

points of disagreement or fear or worry,

or no, don't do this, or that'll go

478

wrong or whatever those narratives are.

479

Just all kind of overlaying

voices as a wall.

480

And of course, the important thing is

to ask one's mind, why is it doing this?

481

Rather than it's wrong or it's bad.

482

For me, I ask my own mind,

like, so what's the purpose of

483

this negative wall of thought?

484

What's it trying to do?

485

And invariably, one way or the

other, it's the same thing.

486

It's trying to keep me safe.

487

Always.

488

It's trying to keep you safe.

489

The problem being is that

it's sometimes built on

490

misunderstanding and misapprehension

about, well, what is safety?

491

You know, not taking a chance of

growing your business or speaking to

492

someone on a podcast or, or whatever

it is that you might feel is a risk.

493

And we have this inbuilt safety

system, but of course it's

494

filtered by what people tell us.

495

Culture.

496

Don't do this.

497

Don't do that.

498

And listening to one's, I guess,

quieter inner voice, that more

499

intelligent state, which you

alluded to coming from meditation.

500

To me sounds more powerful and it's

something I do quite similar about

501

meditation and internal check ins.

502

But that's such a big thing when we

think about what is success in a life?

503

Whatever that looks like for you.

504

Money, health, fitness,

happiness, whatever it is.

505

But what is the fulfillment?

506

Is it on your terms or

is it on someone else's?

507

And if it's on someone else's terms...

508

you better check the T's and C's because

that contract may not be right for you.

509

So cool.

510

I'd like to go a little bit more into how

you've been applying these understandings,

511

both from your early story, and you

know, you've done so many different

512

things, but how have you brought it

to be to get this authenticity to make

513

decisions like leave your video agency,

which I understand was pretty successful

514

at the time, and to then go on to do

Thrive and then to move on from that?

515

How have you?

516

Got to that decision point.

517

What, what is it in you that

gets you to that decision point?

518

Marc Convey: I think I've got

better at it over the years.

519

I think each decision I've made is,

is layered on top of the previous one.

520

so if we, we wind back a bit, you know, a

little bit further, before I founded and

521

ran 23D for, for five, over five years,

you know, I had a, a very successful

522

career in, in the poker industry of,

of all industries, like, How I got into

523

that, I don't know, but, you know, I was

at the top of the game, you know, I'd

524

won the biggest award that I could win,

and I'd hit a glass ceiling, and at that

525

point that I'd hit the glass ceiling,

I didn't want to join any of the gaming

526

companies, but I think my ego or people

were feeding my ego, you know, and it got

527

to a point where there was opportunities

to fill gaps in the market that I spotted.

528

And I had such a great balanced

life, you know, as a freelancer

529

in the, in the poker media world,

I was traveling around the world.

530

I could travel loads in between and

traveling for me has been really

531

important as part of my growth as well.

532

Maybe we can, you know, dive into

that afterwards, but in terms of.

533

You know, I fell into a trap, I think,

by leaving my freelance life behind

534

and starting a video agency because

people were telling me in these

535

big game companies that, you know,

you're the person that can do this.

536

And, you know, I talk about these

ideas that I had, you know, I'm

537

never short of creative ideas.

538

And I started to forget the

growth that I'd made, I think,

539

and was chasing riches there.

540

were things that hadn't made

me happy up to that point.

541

You know, wow, I could start

this creative video agency.

542

I can build a team.

543

I can earn off other people and not

just off, off myself, you know, margins.

544

And so pounds and dollar signs

started coming into my head.

545

And I was running into, to a, to

a, to a scenario that just wasn't

546

suited with, with who I am and, and,

and how I'd, how I'd live my life.

547

And I, you know, I chased, chased,

chased the riches and, and extra

548

glory off the back of already

winning an awards and being, you

549

know, lauded for what I was doing.

550

And, and that was a mistake and I learned

that the hard way and I think it probably

551

took the pandemic to slow me down.

552

And made me, made me

think, think a lot more.

553

And the, you know, the company

was, an interesting juncture.

554

You know, we could have, there

was opportunities to sell

555

into, into bigger agencies.

556

but it was right that we shut it

down because I allow, I needed to, to

557

allow my business partner, James, to,

to, to grow as well personally and.

558

By doing that, I would have put it

into a position that wouldn't have

559

been good for his health and his

home life and all sorts of stuff.

560

So at that point, I was reminded, you

know, of what's really important to

561

me and where I'd always got my, my

version of richness and happiness,

562

you know, inside out way of thinking.

563

And so we just, we just let it go.

564

And that was a, that was a, that

was a difficult, difficult time,

565

but also an empowering time.

566

And then, yeah, then the Thrive Now thing

came along, and, and that was, we were

567

just about really to, to go somewhere,

and it was at that point that I could

568

see myself at that point falling back

into the trap again, and I was at this,

569

I've been here before, this is when, you

know, I was just a freelance poker person

570

before, and I'm being fed these things

by external, external forces, you know,

571

looking out into the world, business

partners, needs of all these different

572

people that I think I could help.

573

And I'd forgotten about myself again.

574

But before I got too deep into it,

I'd recognized the signs again.

575

And so it was, it was

much easier to make that.

576

So I think if we, we evolve, I think,

and you know, it's just life experience.

577

And if you kind of look back on

Honest, And it, you know, it was a

578

braver decision leaving 23D, I think,

coming in and telling my team, I

579

think I've taken this as far as I can.

580

I need to, to live a

more purpose led life.

581

I need to live a life that's

more aligned with, with who I am.

582

And that was harder because I was

leaving a team behind and I was

583

impacting other people's lives.

584

When it came to leaving Thrive Now.

585

It's almost like it wasn't a decision.

586

You know, I've gotten to that point

where there is no other direction

587

for me to go than to follow what

I'm doing now and sharing, sharing

588

my story and helping other people.

589

And that's all I needed to do and

I needed to simplify things back

590

down again because my life was

quite simple when I was just...

591

Traveling around the world and talking

and writing about a game, you know, and

592

then I'd leave that behind and there

was no baggage when I went home and

593

then I could go off and do a lovely

trip and then next thing I know I was

594

in the Bahamas or I was in Las Vegas

or I was, you know, in Monte Carlo.

595

It was a, I didn't

realize how good I had it.

596

I had it so, so it got, it got,

it's getting easier and easier

597

as I get older and I get wiser.

598

Sal Jefferies: Lovely.

599

That's such a powerful story.

600

I love hearing that.

601

It's, it's so easy to think we need

more, you know, with the whole,

602

our entire culture is predicated on

it and our entire business models

603

are mostly predicated on growth.

604

I mean, I've spent a lot of time

around business people and it's all

605

about growth and, you know, exits

and this, that, and the other.

606

You know, like some of the guys I

work with, both male and female.

607

You know, in a, in a, in a high

pressure situation and they're

608

working really hard and that's

admirable, the work in hard ethic.

609

I really struggle with the expense

of the success chase though, because

610

I'll ask a client like, Okay, so

you're pushing all these hours.

611

Tell me about your sleep.

612

It's not good.

613

Okay.

614

Tell me about how your body feels.

615

Not good.

616

Tell me about your exercise routine.

617

What exercise routine?

618

And you're like, okay.

619

So you're building this thing, right,

that's going to amass you some money

620

and all this expectations, which

by the way, you do have no idea

621

whether it's going to happen or not,

because the future is so in flux now.

622

And you may not be healthy

enough to enjoy it.

623

And literally, this is the

worst business decision going.

624

You know, if your health is not in, in

the right space, and you've already kind

625

of picked up on this a couple of times in

our conversation, and it's, you know, dear

626

to my heart, your health is your wealth.

627

You know, it's a, it's a statement from a

yoga teacher that I heard many years ago.

628

But it's a no brainer, right?

629

If you don't have your health,

you don't have your business.

630

Full stop.

631

So forget your business and all

your hours and all that kind

632

of external commodification.

633

If your body doesn't work very well,

and you're not in good shape...

634

everything else will go to pot as well.

635

So it's so important.

636

And I think health, we talk about

it often thinking physically, but

637

in my world, there's no distinction

between mental and physical.

638

They, yes, there are distinctions of

course, but they're all connected,

639

but they're not separate entities.

640

So if your physical health's good, but

your emotional health isn't, then the

641

overall health isn't optimized or good.

642

Whereas if we can start to balance

them all, that really shifts.

643

Which leads me to think, well, if we're

on this kind of process of success

644

and growth and, and, but not sure,

like, how do I find the fulfillment?

645

You're asking questions like,

which bit of my life was good?

646

Was it popping over to Monte

Carlo and doing a thing and then

647

going to, you know, Las Vegas?

648

Or was it, you know, pushing hard in an

agency, lots of hours and stretching?

649

It's kind of, it's not

hard to decide, is it?

650

Like, well, which one was a better life?

651

So I guess one of the things I

hear and, and I'm sure all our,

652

our listeners here as well, there

is courage here in letting go.

653

There's courage in letting go and

perhaps what isn't right for you.

654

And clearly you've done that

multiple times recently and that

655

courage to step into the unknown.

656

And that really excites me when

I, when I hear that from you.

657

And obviously if I, if I, when I

step into that space, stepping into

658

the unknown with courage and trust.

659

That's absolute power because I do

wonder that the trap we get into is we

660

think something's going to happen and

it could be based on shaky grounds,

661

you know, the pandemic showed us this,

662

just got torpedoed because of that.

663

And there's going to be a whole host

of changes coming up with all the

664

things that's happening in the world.

665

I wonder if you could say a little bit

more around your focus on your kind of

666

mental, emotional and physical health

that you're really attuning to now as you

667

think about fulfillment and what you need.

668

How do you attend to those areas?

669

Marc Convey: there's, there's, there's

a couple of things that I do and I've

670

actually just added, added one this week

and it's taken me to a whole nother level.

671

And I think this really plays into

to what you practice with, you know,

672

the mind and body and movement.

673

morning routine is, is big for me, you

know, I heard on a, I can't remember

674

what part podcast it was, but someone

said, find the thing in the morning that,

675

that helps you swim upstream so that the

rest of the day you can drift downstream

676

and that can be whatever works for you.

677

It could be going for a run.

678

It can be, you know, having a workout,

it can be meditating, it can be reading,

679

it can be whatever you want to do.

680

So I found what works for me is

just a little bit of breath work

681

while I'm in bed in the morning.

682

Then I go and make myself a cup of tea.

683

then I get back into bed

and, I read for a bit.

684

normally, you know, it's a, a kind of,

a mindset story, positivity, whatever

685

it may be, what I'm into at that time.

686

and then I just do 10

minutes of meditation.

687

And that for me just sets me up and

that's what helps me swim upstream and

688

the rest of the day swim downstream.

689

but what now I've started doing

is at the other end of the day

690

is adding in some exercise.

691

So I've just joined a place where,

cause I'm doing a lot of, you know,

692

writing my story at the moment.

693

So I do that and I go in and then

I, two hours intensive writing and

694

then I've got the afternoon to.

695

to plan, do admin, have calls,

conversations, you know, come

696

on wonderful podcasts like

this, and then I do exercise.

697

But what I needed to do was find a place

where While I'm making that routine to

698

make it as easy and as accessible for me.

699

So I'm in a place where I'm

effectively working in the gym.

700

So there are no excuses for me.

701

And I can't tell you how good it's been

for my mental health just this week.

702

So I've got my day ends booked marked.

703

And I'm only going to do

that four days a week.

704

And then Friday it's going to

be whatever you want to do.

705

So I want to enjoy having a simplified

routine and now that I'm not running

706

an agency or trying to grow a movement,

my inbox is really quiet and I'm,

707

oh, it's honestly, it's just lovely.

708

It's like I could just focus on me now.

709

so it's, you know, it's novel, it's fresh.

710

So, you know, let's caveat that.

711

This is the first week of me doing it.

712

But yeah, it feels great.

713

I've kind of feel, feel like

I've got everything in the

714

right place at the moment

715

and everything's pulling in this,

in the right direction for me,

716

Sal Jefferies: That's

really, really great.

717

And, you know, I'm going to say it because

it's part of the MMM process that...

718

Movement is absolutely fundamental.

719

It's the hole that I saw when I was

working psychologically only that

720

people weren't connecting to their

bodies and from the simple things

721

like a breath work practice or a

more gentle like yoga practice to

722

running, to walking, to feeding and.

723

And I've shared my story many

times, and to kind of just keep

724

it short, I train most days.

725

And train means, it's just a

term I use, but I move most days.

726

So it'll look like, I mean, I have

a five million year year step count.

727

That's my, that's my target.

728

Sounds a lot.

729

It sounds a lot, but it's

only about 13, 500 a day.

730

So it's a really like, what a cool goal,

but actually 13, 500, super doable.

731

It's not

732

Marc Convey: you're you're not

counting to five million, are you?

733

Not each though.

734

Sal Jefferies: Not a shame.

735

No, no, it's

736

Marc Convey: 41,

737

444.

738

41, 445.

739

Come on Sal, you're almost at six figures.

740

Sal Jefferies: I know that's

why we use tech, right?

741

You know, that just I look at the

watch, it says what I've done.

742

I'm like, yeah, I'm not

too caught up on it.

743

It's it's again.

744

It's arbitrary.

745

It's all for me is about can I move

and can I say connected to my body?

746

Because there's a joyfulness to that.

747

There's a live and aliveness to that and

You know, as I've said many times, you

748

know, I'm, I'm now, pushing half over

half a century, which to some people

749

they get the old kind of like, well,

you kind of should be slowing down and

750

taking these like no absolute rubbish.

751

This is time to execute and go, go more.

752

And I'll do all sorts of

practices, but my practice is

753

the first thing in the morning.

754

I bracket the morning.

755

So the first.

756

Good few hours a day is for movement

and that could look like a walk with the

757

dog someday, swim, it's a gym session,

a lot of different gym sessions of

758

different types, but that's my time.

759

For someone else that

might not work at all.

760

You might get up and literally

just need to go straight into your

761

work scenario and that's fine.

762

Or you might need to

meditate and that's fine.

763

But finding where the friction is

or least friction to add in movement

764

is an absolute win win for everyone.

765

It's a win for your body,

it's a win for your mind.

766

And finding where it is.

767

So, I've got a buddy I was with the other

day and he can't do morning exercise.

768

It's not his thing.

769

But he's after work.

770

I'm like, awesome, just

bracket that time, do it then.

771

I'm completely the other way.

772

So not that one way is right, but it's

about making sure it gets put in as a,

773

as a, as an important piece of your day.

774

Because if you're moving well, if your

body is strong and supple and able to do

775

things, The expression in the mind and the

emotional state is vital, but I too will

776

meditate, but I do it after my exercise.

777

I go upstream first with lots of

stuff and then I come downstream

778

to say that that works for me.

779

I kind of want to bring

this to some summary now.

780

so we've spoken a lot about many

different things and your story is

781

vast and I can't wait to hear your

story pure and unadulterated and,

782

and you're of course always welcome

back on my, on my show anytime.

783

I kind of want to tap back in.

784

You know, we spoke a

while back, didn't we?

785

And we were saying about what

I call the looked at life.

786

So we can look at Instagram

or LinkedIn or you look at the

787

person with a very nice car.

788

Whatever the thing you're looking at.

789

And we can assume that what that

looks like feels like something.

790

For instance, if you have a, let's

say someone's looking good and they've

791

got all this wealth, let's say.

792

And you can assume that they are, they're

happy, they're content, they're fulfilled.

793

And yet I know from a coaching

practice of coaching a lot of

794

high net worth people that they're

not necessarily happy or content.

795

They have a lot of money, but

they'll come to me because we're

796

working on existential challenges.

797

And we spoke a little bit around

the distinction and the difference

798

between what you see on the outside...

799

And what you feel on the inside,

it can be very, very different.

800

And what kind of, would it be okay

to summarize on your own experience,

801

which I was really touched my heart

when you told me about, of course,

802

of course you, what you said to me

about how you weigh your trauma.

803

Are you happy to share a little bit about

that, that description for, for, for us?

804

Marc Convey: Yeah, big, big time.

805

You know, I think I touched on that a

little bit earlier where the picture

806

that was being painted for me during

my recovery in the early days, you

807

know, was one that wasn't very bright.

808

So I learned very, very early on that the,

the signposts that so called happiness

809

that this consumer driven world that we

live in, you know, you know, there for us

810

to follow, just, just, just don't work.

811

And while they weren't going to work

for me, so I was forced down a different

812

path really, because of the, the, the

Western world that I was growing up in

813

and you know what, I found a much nicer

path to, to, to go down and, you know,

814

I'll share a little story with you.

815

I sat in there.

816

I was sat in the pub, you know, I do

like a pub, if anyone knows me, with,

817

with my mum last year and explaining to

her that, yeah, it's okay, mum, I've,

818

you know, left this video company and,

you know, just kind of assuring her

819

that I wasn't having a midlife crisis

meltdown and actually that I was just

820

doing this for fulfillment And I've sat

with my mum, and she asked me, you know,

821

why I had never shown a huge interest

in, in trying to support charities

822

associated with, with burns victims

or defigurements, and it wasn't like I

823

wasn't interested in helping those people.

824

But I said to her, and I pointed over

to an imaginary corner in the, in the,

825

in the pub, and I said, I'm really

interested in helping that, that person

826

over there in the corner that, you know,

is Instagram cookie cutter perfect That

827

has probably like stepped out of a Range

Rover and it's got all the gear, looks

828

great, sit down Anyone would pass them

and look and be a bit envious about

829

the life that they had But just below

the surface They're really unhappy.

830

They've got a lot of trauma

going on and But what do they

831

have to complain about, right?

832

What do they have to complain about?

833

And I was like, there's a much bigger

problem that we have in society with,

834

with where we look for validation

and we look for it because we've

835

been turned from citizens into

consumers and it's all about driving

836

money and and we've got it so wrong.

837

And I'm just so thankful that what

happened to me happened 30 years ago

838

when there weren't, you know, camera

phones and there wasn't social media and

839

that my integration back into society

was made a lot easier because of that.

840

Now the problem's got so much worse

in the last 30 years and we're seeing

841

that the mental health is on the rise.

842

So I want to make it, you know,

a vocation of mine to be able to.

843

To help people understand that

there is a different way, that

844

it's all about internal validation.

845

And it's so little about

external validation.

846

And, and there is that

Richardson that we talked about.

847

And it, and it's not in,

it's not in Prada bags.

848

And it's not in Range Rover.

849

And it's, and it's not in getting

Botox and filling your lips.

850

And it's not about the Kardashians.

851

It's...

852

And so often you, you, you get

the things that you're chasing.

853

You remember this, we know this as kids,

we can all tap into our own journeys.

854

You know, that's the thing.

855

It's like the amount of presents we get

as kids and you get something up and it

856

makes you happy for 10 minutes and you

throw it aside and, but we all remember

857

the incredible holiday that we had.

858

And if we went to Disneyland or, you

know, that kid that we met, you know,

859

when we were running down the beach and.

860

These are the things, these are the things

that, that impact your soul, that, that,

861

that raise your consciousness, that, that

make you feel, you know, we, I want to

862

feel sad, I want to feel happy, you want

to fall in love with, with, with other

863

people, that's where richness come from.

864

It doesn't come from material things.

865

And the quicker we learn that

as individuals, then the more

866

content we'll be as human beings.

867

Sal Jefferies: Beautiful, beautiful.

868

So, so true.

869

So, so true.

870

We swim on the surface, but

the magic's in the depths.

871

Always.

872

Yeah.

873

Yeah.

874

Go deep, go deep.

875

and I resonate, you know, it's so

much of my, my trappings that I

876

was chasing a short story for me.

877

I was a photographer back when

I was in my thirties and it

878

was a struggle to get going.

879

That's a story for another podcast,

but it I finally got going and

880

I got to a point where I was

earning a lot of money from it.

881

I was getting paid very, very well.

882

I was doing very good work and.

883

And my heart wasn't in it at the end.

884

I literally had, like you, checked out.

885

People are like, what are you doing?

886

You're like, you're, you're so successful.

887

You've got money, you know, you've

got clients, you've booked up so much.

888

I was like, I'm done.

889

I'm literally, I feel

empty going to a shoot.

890

And that is no way to show up at anything.

891

and I retired.

892

I, I wrote my own, I

resigned from my own company.

893

I retired the business.

894

And I went on at that time

to become a yoga teacher.

895

And that is not a well paid trade compared

to the photography trade I was in.

896

So I probably took a 66% pay cut and

it was like, wow, that was massive.

897

And yet going to a yoga studio

and seeing change, it's priceless.

898

Now, yes, of course we need to pay

the bills, pay the rent, the mortgage,

899

whatever you, you need the basics

covered, but that's practicalities.

900

You need to cover that for sure.

901

So we don't want to diminish that,

but the deep stuff that matters.

902

It's about a conversation

or impact or something.

903

It's not about a 300 pound yoga mat or

some nonsense that we get caught up in.

904

Like I really need that thing.

905

And it's soon as we realize that and

realize that who does this serve?

906

It's a question I use myself.

907

It's a question I will

always ask a coaching client.

908

And it's a question I invite all of

us to think about who does this serve?

909

If you're thinking about buying

another thing, spending your money on

910

something else, who does that serve?

911

Does it serve you?

912

Or does it serve the, probably the

organization that wants your money to

913

go to their bank account and not yours?

914

And that's fine if it's transactional,

but if it's you're trying to buy

915

happiness and fulfillment and that's

your success model It will be like a

916

sieve and empty before you know it.

917

So yes, deep stuff.

918

Go deep.

919

Mark, thank you for your time.

920

I wonder if there is one last thought

you could share with us about you've

921

shared so much of course already, but

one last thought to kind of summarize

922

about this whole thing about what

is fulfillment, what is success.

923

The real stuff, not the illusory

stuff, but the real stuff.

924

Marc Convey: I think the,

it's about authenticity and

925

an inside out way of thinking.

926

So you need to, there needs to be balance,

I think, between putting yourself first.

927

It's okay to be selfless.

928

It's okay not to be a people pleaser.

929

But at the same time, you need a level of

consciousness that is balanced with that.

930

And if you get those two things right.

931

You won't become a narcissist.

932

You'll, you'll, you'll

find your core values.

933

You'll go deep into your soul and,

and those things will anchor you.

934

And, and then those things will make you

more attractive to other people as well.

935

So you'll end up getting, what

you need from, from the external

936

world, but just in different ways.

937

It will be in, in the depth of the

relationships we have with other

938

people, because if you're showing up.

939

As your true self, then, then that's

what people, that's what people want.

940

Sal Jefferies: Amazing.

941

To me, my mind came up with two

words to summarize what you said.

942

Ease, not effort.

943

Just ease into that.

944

Be yourself.

945

Be authentic.

946

Be magnetic.

947

Be, courageous.

948

Trust and Authenticity rather than the

efforting and, you know, the overworking

949

or whatever that thing is, which is toxic.

950

So Mark, amazing.

951

Thank you so much for sharing

some of your story at some level.

952

I know your story is even bigger

than that, but so much you shared,

953

which is really powerful to hear

personally, for my dear listener.

954

I trust that there's so much that Mark,

and hopefully I've been able to bounce

955

has really got you thinking around.

956

How do you think about success?

957

What do you think about fulfillment?

958

How are you living?

959

and Are You On A Place

That's Working For You.

960

So lots of thoughts.

961

It's a provocational podcast.

962

It's one to inspire.

963

I hope it has inspired you.

964

So until the next time,

thank you and goodbye.

965

Thank you so much for listening.

966

If you enjoyed the episode,

please subscribe and if a friend

967

would benefit from hearing this,

do send it on to them as well.

968

If you would like to get in touch

yourself, then you can go to my website,

969

which is sal jeffries.com, spelled S

A L J E F E R I E s sal jeffries.com.

970

Hit the get in touch link and there

you can send me a direct message.

971

If you'd like to go one step further

and learn whether coaching could help

972

you overcome a challenge or a block

in your life, then do reach out and

973

I offer a call where we can discuss

how this may be able to help you.

974

Until the next time, take care.