Summary

In this episode of the Zekely Podcast, Zeke interviews Mark Pinsley, the controller of Lehigh County, Pennsylvania. They discuss Mark's journey into politics, his responsibilities as a controller, and his investigations into systemic issues, including a significant case of medical child abuse. Mark shares personal stories about his family and his commitment to fighting for healthcare reform and ethical governance. The conversation highlights the importance of community involvement and the challenges faced in the political landscape.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Mark Pinsley

01:35 Over-Controlling

04:28 Becoming Controller

07:34 History of Control

09:52 Controller Organization

11:11 Investigating Child Abuse

18:53 Ethics

20:03 Are You Chai?

21:34 Why Are You A Democrat?

22:36 Navigating Family Challenges with Addiction

26:19 Healthcare Perspectives and Challenges

29:13 Name That Movie: Watchdog Edition

31:01 Future Projects

35:40 What Gives You Hope?

36:38 Future Plans and Political Advocacy

Controller Mark Pinsley: https://www.lehighcounty.org/Controller

Mark Pinsley TikTok: @mpinsley

Mark Pinsley BlueSky: @mpinsley.bsky.social

Full Video Episode Available On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheZekelyPodcast

Short Clips Can Be Found On TikTok: @drzeketayler/@thezekelypodcast and Instagram: @thezekelypodcast

Hello I'm Zeke and welcome to the Zekely podcast. Let's talk Pennsylvania. The guest I have today is a veteran, small business owner, and the current controller of Lehigh County, Pennsylvania. A fiscal watchdog for taxpayer dollars, he has investigated fraud in both the medical and business sectors and saved the county millions of dollars in the process. Thank you so much for being here Mark Pinsley.

For years, I’ve knocked thousands of doors all over Pennsylvania and poured my heart and soul into supporting candidates and causes that make a difference—from local school board races to national elections. The personal is political, and I take every election in Pennsylvania personally.

Where the mainstream media has failed you, I will give you truth and independence. You’ll hear from Democratic leaders, candidates, and change-makers who are working to improve the health of the Commonwealth, and it won’t be boring as hell.

No matter where you are, I’ll meet you with hope and a plan to make your community better one day at a time. Welcome to the Zekely Podcast. Let’s talk Pennsylvania.

Yeah, thank you very much. I'm really excited to be here.

I'm so happy you're here. You the last time I saw you was virtually. I wasn't there in person, but it was in Lehigh Valley at a town hall. It was with Jamie Raskin and state reps and Susan Wild because Republicans are not showing up to their town halls. And it was great that you showed up.

Thank you. Yeah, it was really good to be invited there as well.

I'm excited to have you. Well, you're my first controller to have on a podcast. So we're going to talk all about what you do, play some games and have some fun. You ready? All right. Well, we are going to play a game to start things off. It's called Overcontrolling Or Appropriate. OK, and I'm going to give you some scenarios. You're going to tell me that's a little over controlling or that's totally appropriate. OK. All right. So here's the first scenario. Your significant other and or love interests.

Awesome, awesome.

I'm ready.

Awesome

asks you to read through your text messages. Is that over controlling or kind of appropriate?

It's over controlling, but I would totally let it happen.

Yeah, me too. I have to say, my wife reads my text messages all the time because I just forget to tell her what happens throughout the day. And so So we do that to keep the communication flowing. But I would say.

I think that's good.

I'll tell you, my whole family knows my passwords, so I have no privacy anyway. I'm like, have at it. Whatever it is, is. Yeah, and I agree with you. My wife says the same thing. You just don't update me enough.

Yeah, yeah, I'm totally cool with that.

Yeah, I forget what happens throughout the day and so this is her way of catching up. So okay, fine. That could be a 50-50, but we're totally cool with it. All right, your kids can't leave the table until they finish all of their food. Is that over controlling or appropriate?

Yeah, I think that's good.

Exactly.

That's interesting. It's a question. It probably is over controlling, although I happen to believe in it.

So growing up, I mean, I was not allowed to leave the table unless it was clean on that plate. But also it made me rush through all my meals. And it was crazy because when I met my future wife, we went out for dinner and I'll never forget this. And we still talk about it. We went to a diner and diners have huge portions. And so, of course, I diligently finish all my food as my parents would have expected of me.

Yeah.

Hahaha!

And then my future wife is like half of her food is still there. And I look at her and I say, you gonna finish? And she says, no, I'm full. And like, I clutched my pearls. I was like, what do mean you're not gonna finish your food? You have to finish your food. are kids starving. You gotta finish your food. Like all the things that like my parents would tell me. And she's like, She's like, no, I'm full. I'm done eating.

Yeah.

told you yes yes no no I totally get that

you know it's funny too because like I was usually the last one if I could rush out I would because I love to play outside when I was a kid or I would be the last one there because my mother loved asparagus and I hate asparagus I don't care like I was like I'm not cleaning this plate

Is it because of the smelly pee? Is that

kind of

know what it is. but I just can't stand asparagus.

Yeah, well, I definitely do not make my kids finish their food, but if they want dessert later, I'll say you can leave the food there. And if you're still hungry, you can come back and eat it later. So that's kind how we play it these days. Okay. Well, I don't want to create trauma. I don't want them to have like trauma in a diner someday with their significant others.

I think that's a good idea. Yeah, yeah, no, that's good.

thanks for playing over controlling or appropriate.

Yeah, I love it.

All right, so you've been the controller in Lehigh County since 2020, correct? What made you want to run for this position?

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Right. And then Trump came along and he was a very different animal for me. So I'm Jewish. And so when he was talking about the Mexicans and the Muslims and things like that, like it spoke to me, like I like, I'm like, I know who's next. And I'm not waiting.

so I was like, all right, I'm gonna run for Congress, right? Like I'm running against, know, at this time, it was our congressman was Charlie Dent, literally everyone loved him. And he's like, man, hold your horses.

Uh-huh. my gosh.

So he's like, you know, why don't you run for something, you know, smaller first? And I'm like, yeah, but I don't even want to run to be honest with you. I'm only running because you're telling me to. In fact, really what put me over the edge for this was he said, you can't just fight from the outside. You got to fight from the inside. Right. Because before that, I was like, let me just be an activist. You know, like I'm fine with that. You know, you're never wrong because it's always your opinion. Right. You're never having to negotiate with both sides.

Okay.

You're only your side. That's all that matters. In any case, so he told me to run. Eventually I decided I would run for my township. And so I became township commissioner and I was the first township commissioner that was a Democrat in over 20 years. And I would like to say it was all me, but really it was all my campaign manager, gentleman named Cornell Wilson. And he had like, he told me what to do and I just did it. Go knock on a hundred doors. I went and I knocked on a hundred doors. Go write a hundred letters.

and I wrote a hundred letters. So whatever he told me to do, I did and I won. And it was a good feeling.

That's awesome.

And as controller, it's not as political, right? Like a lot of it's just numbers. But you can choose to make it whatever you want, right? Like, so what I have tried to do is make it for the people, not the powerful. Like that's my motto and all people. So not just the Democrats, but also the Republicans. And so I've done a lot of things like in that, in that area.

Mm-hmm.

But I do have a democratic slant to it.

And so that's been my, that's sort of been my path and how I got here. quite honestly, so my background is in finance. You know, I've been an executive at some large companies and like, and I was like vice president of marketing and product development

Even when you're doing that, it's all finance. I'm in meetings that are about, how are you going to spend the money? How are you going to keep the stock price up?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right, right.

And now you're watching the money flow through constituents and affecting their lives. Well, I'm impressed at how you got

Absolutely.

I think it's great that you did all this work even if you didn't really know where you would land you your values got you there right your value your values got there yeah you think that's that's a great

Yeah, thank you. appreciate it. been, it's been an exciting ride. Thank you.

Let's play another game called History of Control. All right, so here is the first question. In what year did the Office of the County Controller replace the Office of the County Auditors in Pennsylvania? I can give you a multiple choice. So is it 1843, 1893, 1913, or 1943?

Okay, yep.

That's a good one. I have no idea

1913.

1913, it was a long time ago.

Yeah,

1913 is when they switched

Yeah, really nice.

Hmm, I'm gonna guess eerie Was it Lancaster interesting, what was her name again?

Lancaster. Lancaster County, yeah, which is where I grew up.

I should know her. I wonder if she's at the meeting today.

Here's the next one. What county classes must have a controller in Pennsylvania?

So I'm gonna say it's definitely one and definitely two. I'm gonna have to guess one, two, three. I'm gonna guess one, two, and three.

So yeah, one through five. the first, yeah, which this was so interesting to me when I was researching this. So it's all based on population, right? So the first class, you have to have greater than 1.5 million people in that county to be class one. And then the sixth class is 90 to 150,000

one through five. Okay.

but it is mandated in the first through fifth classes, which I find very interesting.

Yeah, I just find it fascinating that there are actual cutoffs in what you have to have a controller. Basically, the larger population, the more money you have, you must have oversight in where that money goes. So that makes sense. And then of the 67 counties in Pennsylvania, how many have controllers? You know that number?

Yeah, I think that's great. Yeah.

I'm gonna guess 38.

my gosh, you got it, 38, yes. Yeah, 38 that's a great that you know that number as I did not. But yeah, if you live in a county where you do not have a controller in Pennsylvania, you can place them on a ballot, you have to get a petition of 100 qualified electors in that county and you can elect a controller

Hahaha!

Well, thank you for playing History of Control. I learned a lot by making that game. It was great.

yeah, that was good.

What's the organizational structure of your office and how many people do you oversee?

So we have eight people in the office, which is a small controller office by comparison to some. And part of that is because what I described, we're very focused on internal control. So for me, I have a deputy controller, and then we have seven other people, and one being office manager who also does administration. But most everyone is an auditor of some type. So they're either a junior auditor, an auditor, a senior auditor.

Well, I mean, you obviously have to trust the people you work with and you're dealing with millions of dollars and so I'm sure you need to trust who you're sending out to audit these companies and make sure they're not committing fraud and so you really have to trust those people.

Absolutely, absolutely. But they're professionals. They're really good. These are not the Doge guys where they're 20 years old or whatever programming. I'll tell you what I like about Doge though. Can I tell you? So the nicest thing about Doge is they have gone into the paper of fraud, waste and abuse.

⁓

They're not sitting there just.

god, what?

Okay.

So many more people now know that we need to find out fraud, waste, and abuse. That's my role.

Hahaha

So

you are the anti-Doge. You're actually like what should be happening in government.

Exactly. I'm like the real Doge. Like if Doge was a real thing, it would be us, you know? And we do save the county money. Like that's what it's about.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not, you're not.

Well, I'm glad that you said that because it's a nice segue into something that your office

So tell me about how you became involved in this investigation.

Yeah, so it's kind of a weird thing, quite honestly. So my wife and I were in the grocery store and we were waiting in line and I absolutely hate to wait in line. So like I was like flipping through TikTok and this woman comes on and she was describing the situation where these kids were being taken away, and she said, I just won a case, you know, against Lehigh County. And I wasn't even familiar with this

So I looked her up on TikTok and I found her and I sent her an email and she responded within 24 hours. And I said, hey, look, I don't know if I can help, but I'm always trying to save money for Lehigh County. If we did something wrong, I'd like to know and learn more about it.

Mm-hmm.

so this was a lawyer, she got her client together and a couple other people and we all got into a room and I just interviewed them. I'm like, hey, so what ended up happening? And the woman, the mother in this case, had told me the story, you know, and basically they had taken their child to the hospital. The child had said, and this child was like 16 years old at this point, but was suffering from other medical issues and had been his whole life.

Mm-hmm.

Anyway, so he's like, you know, my parents abuse me. They don't let me use my cell phone like that kind of abuse Right and in the state of Pennsylvania as soon as they say abuse you have to report them on to child line Which is our 1-800 child line number if there's something wrong

Okay, okay, yeah, alright.

And also that hospital had a doctor who was the child abuse doctor. She was a child abuse pediatrician. So she comes in and then diagnoses the parents with Munchausen syndrome by proxy, medical child abuse, and she had never met the parents.

Okay, okay.

Mm-hmm.

Munchausen syndrome by proxy is basically a disease where typically the mother takes the child to the doctor and pretends the child is sick. It's almost like being a hypochondriac, but for your kid, because you want attention.

Right, right.

So it's a very rare disease, typically moms. But in this case, the doctor had diagnosed both the mother and the father as having Munchausen.

I didn't know much about it at the time, but I was like, hey, know, is this just two poor souls that got caught in some random thing? But it was important enough to me to like look further, you know, like, all right, let me see what's going on. And so there was a couple of things I did. One was I reached out to a PhD statistician and I said, hey, look, what's the likelihood like that a mother and a father of the same family

Mm-hmm.

you know, would both have Munchausen syndrome by proxy.

And so he did it and the likelihood of, you know, two parents both having Munchausen syndrome was like, you were more likely to be struck by lightning twice in your lifetime than for that to happen.

Okay, so that's the suspicious sound of the

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Right.

And so then I said, OK, well, let me start to do some more research. So the state keeps track of all of this data, like especially around child abuse, but specifically medical child abuse. So I downloaded all the data and I could see a cluster around us. So Lehigh County, Northampton County, Carbon County, and we all use the same hospital for our child abuse stuff.

Mm-hmm.

So once again, I sent it off to my statistician and I'm like, hey, look, this is what I'm seeing, but can you do the math and see like whether this is right or wrong? And he was like, no, this is not right. You need to look into this more carefully. Like there shouldn't be that kind of cluster and there shouldn't be so many people being diagnosed with Munchausen-syndrome by proxy.

Mm-hmm.

ultimately I ended up talking to 15 different families that all had a similar experience with this same doctor. ⁓ And then as I looked into it more, I found that this doctor had been fired up in New York for the same issue. Or if not fired, she left. And then she went down to Florida and this same issue came up down in Florida.

That's crazy.

Okay.

Okay.

And then she went to Lehigh County and the reason she was able to kind of get away with it you will is because She was a child abuse pediatrician. So all of these cases are closed and confidential Right, so nobody's seeing the picture of all of this happening ⁓ And so I just started digging in and digging in and digging in and like eventually I decided to put out a report and I was communicating this with my

Wow.

Okay.

with my commissioners as well. I mean, this is a big enough deal, right? Like I'm not keeping this to myself. Everyone knows what's going on. And so I put out the report. And when I did that, I said to the families, What I would like to do is invite you guys to come in and speak to the commissioners So we did that. Now our typical commissioner meetings have like 10 to 20 people.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Like typical meetings. This one had 178 people that showed up. And the press showed up and a documentarian showed up. you know, so it was a big deal. You know, and within two weeks, the doctor was removed from her position. And then for, I guess, three or four months later, she resigned and is no longer working for the hospital. And now there's a lawsuit. And I think it's going to be big.

I mean, it's just so interesting how you became involved in this and how it fell within your purview as a controller, you know, because these people are interacting with the health system that receives money from taxpayers and physicians who are misdiagnosing patients, having their children taken away, having to go through a court system now, taxpayer dollars, right? Going through court. And it's a lot of wasted money on malpractice, essentially.

Absolutely.

On top of which, by the way, we pay for foster care. We pay for kinship care. We pay for all the legal fees for the children and for the parents if they don't have access to legal fees. It was a lot of money that was going out because of this.

Yeah.

So yeah, mean, sometimes you have to look at something and be like, where's the money? Like, is there money in this? And then figure it all out.

just.

Right, right. just,

I think it's amazing that you stumbled upon that,

scrolling through TikTok, and then you wound up uncovering this systemic abuse in your own backyard. I mean, it's amazing. And I'm so grateful that you did. think there's a lot of mistrust of the medical community because of bad actors. And I think it's great that you uncovered that.

I'll tell you the one thing that I

And I agree with your point, right? Like it's probably just a bad actor. But there's a bad actor in Florida, there's a bad actor in Texas, there's a bad actor in New Jersey, there's a bad actor, right? And we need...

Yeah, yeah, it's true.

These are small actions. you're going to take somebody's kid, we walk a very fine line. When we say we walk a tightrope, we're walking tooth floss. Because if you leave a child in a situation where there is abuse going on, you're now helping the abuser. But if you take a child out of a situation where there is no abuse going on, you are the abuser.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're correct

Yeah, that's a very valid point. Yes, that is

So, by the way, after I put out the report, these 15 families, we had 178 people show up, but I ended up getting calls, literally for the next two months. I ended up meeting 150 families that she had impacted. And some of them were so long ago, they had moved, they weren't even in the state any longer.

They were just still following it and they were like, hey, just wanted to thank you. And they wanted to tell their story, whatever their story was. I felt like the least I could do was listen.

That's a lot of people.

such a phenomenal story. And the fact that you, a controller, uncovered it and helped all of these people. I mean, I would be shocked if there was another story like that in the country that a controller uncovered this type of abuse in the medical system. find it's such a great thing that you did, and I'm very grateful for that. You're welcome.

Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that.

Thank you. Thank you.

You recently earned a certificate of ethics from the Jewish Theological Seminary. So I wanted to know why did you want to pursue that certification?

You know, so COVID was around, you know, and I thought it was a good time. Like I really, I like that particular school, but it's in New York. And so I would have never been able to travel to it. And they had put classes online so we could actually take them during COVID. And so I thought, what a great situation. And I really enjoy ethics and my job is about ethics, you know, obviously. And I wanted to understand the Jewish perspective.

Right.

on ethics, you know, and you know, what does the Torah say? What does the Talmud say? You know, how are we interpreting these kind of things? And it was really a fascinating, fascinating class. And I think probably one of the more interesting things was like, I was the only I was one of the few that weren't going there to become a rabbi. I was just

Okay.

About to say

I feel like lot of rabbis to be were there with you

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. was mostly rabbis. But I learned a lot, I don't know, it was just a fascinating class or class, was series of classes.

⁓

Such an eclectic guy. I love it. mean everything that you layer on only makes you better at what you do. So I think it's great that you did

Thank you.

from one Jew to another, we're going to play a game called Are You Chai? A

I am Chai

game where you tell me if these are real names of cannabis products on the market or if I made them up. Alright. So here's the first one. Kosher Kush.

Ooh, okay, good, yeah, let's do it.

Is that real or did I make that up?

I'm going to say you made that up. Is that really kosher? I'm to look that one up too.

That's real. There's

kosher kush with K's. know, KK kosher kush. Yep, that's a real product. It's a real product out there. Okay, how about this? payos payos pass. So, know, the payos are what the more religious Jews have, the hair that's beside their ears. Is that real or did I make that up?

Yeah, I love it.

Ooh.

Yup.

I'm gonna go with you made it up. Very good.

I did make that up. Although, it's

kind of clever though, yes? know? Okay, that was made up. All right, how about guava nagila? Is that real? That's real. Yeah, guava nagila. That's a real one. All right, here's another one. Gelty pleasure.

No, no, I would think it could be real, you know, I was like, you know, I believe

Guava Nagila sounds real. Is it? Yeah.

Very past, I mean very Hanukkah. Yeah, let's say it's real.

You're very Hanukkah.

It is real. That's another real one. Now here's the last one. Chosen chews

I'm gonna say that's made up, but I love that one.

I did make that up. But

I really hope that maybe some company out there takes that one. payos payos Pass and Chosen and chosen chews are not yet copywritten, so you can have those. No problem.

I like that one too, yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I feel like you've already answered this question, but I just want to drill down for you, give you the stage. But Mark, why are you a Democrat?

Oh my goodness. You know, I think the real, if I had to simplify it to everything, it's like I'm for the people, not the powerful. Right? Like I do not believe that we are doing right by our citizens.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, look, when you know better, you do better.

You know what I would say is just like, you know how they always say, well, you know, what would you want your tombstone to say or, know, like that kind of stuff. Like the child abuse stuff that we talked about earlier, like that's what I want on my tombstone,

Yeah.

a number of years ago, you and your wife became the guardian of your nephew, who I know also struggled with some drug addiction. So how did you and your family navigate that situation?

my God, we're still navigating that situation. He's actually living with us right now. He became homeless and had to move in. It was really difficult to be honest. So what had happened was his mother abandoned him and left him with his grandmother. And so he lived there for quite some time, I would say nine years or so. He came to us when he was, I think it was 16. And so...

I'm sorry.

You know, at 16, he was already a troubled youth. You know, he was doing drugs, he was doing a lot of the wrong thing, he wasn't going to school. And so we eventually took over guardianship from my mother-in-law. And so he lived with us, and it was a very tough thing for him because, he didn't want to be with us, which was fair for a 16-year-old, right?

And he did really well the first year like he went from being a D student to being straight A's Got on the Dean's List did really well started doing well the next year and Then his and his mother had been involved like we got her involved

in his life, even though he lived with us at that time. And then she started dating someone and that kind of changed the whole atmosphere of

Mm-hmm.

Eventually he ended up leaving our house, went to live with his mother.

And he ended up being hooked on heroin. And that has just

became homeless. He hasn't been on drugs for, I think, nine months now. But he can't stay with us forever either. It's a very difficult situation. And the guy is a bright guy. He's just hooked.

Yeah.

Yeah, mean addiction is a a very difficult disease to treat. And it's a huge strain on family members. And I think that there needs to be a lot of compassion for people who have that

I mean, it must be hard, know, especially as family members to see someone hurt themselves like that. ⁓ But I firmly believe that deep down these people are in so much pain that they cannot control the pain of existing in the world and that they turn to these vices to numb that

That's it, yeah.

And to have people like you try your best to guide them the right way. I that's all you can do is just try and be there for them and not let it erode too much of your own family structure as much as possible. But I really hope that he finds peace and is able to do well.

I hope so too. You know, it's funny. So like

And so he's currently on Medicaid. And ⁓ so I have been trying to get him a therapist that takes Medicaid. The therapist that I found that take Medicaid, it's a two-year waiting list.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

my gosh. It's terrible. It's just terrible. mean, this is what the state of Pennsylvania, this is what this country needs is access to healthcare providers because when you lose access to people that can help you, you backslide. And so people are blaming

Well, I... No, it was terrible.

addicts for being addicts, well, you're not giving them the resources that they need. And you're a loving father and a loving uncle, and you would do anything for him. You you're very compassionate, but you're not made of infinite amount of dollars and therapists are expensive and Medicaid exists, but it's clearly not the it's not broad enough. There aren't enough providers out there to help him. And so a two year waiting list, that's just that's a disservice to him.

Absolutely. And you know, ultimately it's because Medicaid pays too little. Right? I mean, they're just not willing to pay the doctors enough to have enough doctors say, yes, I'm willing to take

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, we both know that there's only one political party that wants to expand Medicaid coverage. And it's not the Republican

Yes.

to get to a place where your nephew can have access to a therapist at a reasonable price, and 24-7 if they need it, it's going to be through the Democratic Party. So I really wish your nephew the best. And I hope that he does find peace. You're welcome.

Absolutely.

Thank you. Yeah, thank you.

years ago, you posted an image on your LinkedIn profile. I did some deep diving, Mark. I take this very seriously. It was...

yeah, I see that. Holy Mackerel, man. I give you a lot of credit here.

It was a picture of a tombstone and on it it was inscribed, I wish I could have afforded healthcare. So I had a feeling even before I saw that image that you were very passionate about health and wellbeing of other humans, but I wondered is there any part of your past that kind of nurtured those ideals to care about healthcare?

I don't know about my past specifically. mean, I've just, I think I have always had a good luck with my health and also like I've had good providers, like so I've always had good doctors.

But like over time, I guess I have seen enough people that didn't have that experience that I just thought it was important. And then as I got more and more into politics, I'm like, why are we having such a problem? I was always lucky yeah, my mother was a teacher, so we had good and health insurance. And I had that well up until I was 20, whatever it was at that time. And then I got on my grandfather's insurance or he helped me have insurance for a while.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then there was a period of time where I had no insurance and I was you know, once again young man Maybe 27 28 and I was like, oh man, this is terrible. Like what could happen to

then I just and I'll tell you the other thing that makes that made me think about it just as an entrepreneur is I know how hard it is to start a business and One of the things that makes it hard to start the business Is the cost of health care because if you want to get employees you have to pay for their health care

Yeah.

And the very first business that I started Dunbarton like we were not getting great health care at that time Like I was buying the least I could buy and I always felt terrible about that really Because like that was all I could afford But they deserve more right? So I guess I guess it was like those kind of things. It wasn't anything one specific thing. It was just knowing how important it is

Yeah, and the way that we can expand access to healthcare through the government. I mean, that's gonna be the best and fastest way to do it because we can't count on corporations to do that. They're just gonna, like you said, even if they wanted to, they can't afford to bring down those premiums. It has to be negotiated at a national level.

It really does. would also say too, there's two, couple of things that go along with that. So, first off, I tend to believe that you have to look at something and say, does the profit motive drive the right behavior? Right? And so when you think about the healthcare, the profit motive drives you to get rid of people quickly, to diagnose them in a way that they don't need more treatment. There's a lot of things that would push you in the wrong direction.

Yeah.

So that makes me think it should be run by government, right? School, kind of the same way, right? So your goal would be to have the smartest students and get rid of the ones that you can't help, right? So that means it should be run by government. That's kind how I think about something. If the profit motive drives the wrong behavior, it should probably be run by government or a nonprofit or something like that.

Yeah, right, yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

right.

Well, I like that you have those ideals.

let's play let's play another game. It's called a name that movie but watchdog edition I'm gonna describe some movies and you're gonna try and tell me the title of the movie Okay, so a psychological action thriller featuring a forensic accountant with high functioning autism

who uncovers financial misconduct while working for criminal organizations.

And it's a movie? Yeah, okay. Because it sounds almost like Blacklist.

It's a movie.

Yeah, it's a movie.

And I'll give you a hint if it doesn't come to mind. The sequel just came out recently.

Yeah, it was The Accountant. Is that The Accountant? I didn't see the sequel yet, but I thought the first one was pretty good. Ben Affleck did that movie Justice. It was pretty good.

The accountant. Yeah, that should have been so easy. The

Yes, yeah, it was good.

here's the second one. Based on the true events leading up to the 2008 financial crisis, the film explores the complex world of mortgage-backed securities and the individuals who predicted the collapse of the housing market.

there's a couple of those actually. So there is one, what was it called? The gentleman was betting against the world actually. So he had take the big short.

Yeah

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, he did a great job.

Hell.

It's

a timepiece. It's a timepiece.

Yeah, was it about the guy who actually did all the work? Like a semi true story?

Well yeah, it's like a semi-true story, like loosely based.

Yeah, yeah.

What was that called?

I don't remember.

suffer.

American hustle.

that's not the one I was thinking of. Okay, American Hustle. Let me go watch that one now.

American hustle,

Yeah, so there's Name That Movie, Watchdog Edition.

That was

I'm curious, what other projects is your office currently working on?

Well, one of the things that I just said, you had mentioned that you saw me in Lehigh County. We had actually had a meeting even before that one, which was very specific to Medicaid. And this is something I'm really worried about, which is, so we don't know, we're not sure if they're going to cut. And if they do cut, we're not sure how much. Well, just to give you an idea,

I wrote checks of $67 million that went to our nursing home. That does not fully fund the nursing home.

we still need to get extra grant dollars in order to be able to afford each bed that's in a nursing home. So the total cost of the nursing home is around $103 million. Imagine that the Medicaid side gets cut by

not a profitable company. There's no place to cut. We're already at the bare bones. There isn't $800 of bed extra lying around. So what's going to happen?

Huge. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, are we going kick out Aunt Mary? know, and Aunt Mary has to come home. And by the way, that's not legal. You can't do that. But I like to throw that out so that people understand. Because one of the things that we have here in Pennsylvania, something called a filial law, F-I-L-I-A-L, filial law. And what it says is that the nursing home providers, let's assume that you went to a for-profit nursing home, right? You ran out of your money, and now you're on Medicaid.

Right.

So that makes you indigent. The law basically says your children are now responsible for your financial well-being. And so if the nursing home chooses to, they can sue you or your, if let's say it was your parent, they would sue you to pay for your parents' time in the nursing home, whatever Medicaid is not covering. And there was a guy in Pennsylvania.

They ended up with a, think it was either 92 or $93,000 bill. He took it all the way up to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court and lost. He had to pay that money. He hadn't signed anything, right? he wasn't involved in the decision of getting into a nursing home. None of that. And so this is very important to me, right? Like, so we're talking about nursing homes. Maybe that won't happen to the nursing homes.

Ay...

Well, we spend another $100 million on intellectual and mental disabilities. Right? And so a lot of these people are autistic or they're not speaking yet or whatever. They need intervention. So you cut that out. That's $10 million you're going to get rid of. So what are you going to do? And once again, they can sue the family to get what they can't get. Meaning the amount that Medicaid cuts it by. So first off, what are you going to do? If you're a parent,

Right.

Are you gonna come up with that money or are you just gonna stop going? Right, you're gonna lower the amount that you go maybe to nothing or to something that you can afford or you're gonna go broke. Like that's what's gonna happen. And like one of the things I would like to see the counties do at the very least. So the counties could say, the counties that run nursing homes could say, we aren't going to come after you for our nursing home.

And what I want our county to do,

Right.

to say, we are not going to use that law to sue any of our families. We're going to take care of the people that are in our nursing home. And we haven't gotten to that place yet.

They want to make sure that they have the option to still go after the families, right? Because

that's the society that they might want to live in.

your family, it's your problem, not mine. And we have to make a decision as to whether we want to live in that state, we want to live in that county, we want to live in that municipality.

Right.

we need to fight for that. If we believe that that's not true, if we believe as Democrats that, like, we should be taking care of our neighbors in Pennsylvania, then we need to fight for that.

Right.

how as the controller can you contribute to fixing this issue?

I think the way I contribute to it is I bring awareness to it. So I say, here, I'm signing these checks. My name is on this. I know where it's going. I know what's happening. You, as commissioners, need to be aware. You should be talking to people today. You should be talking to constituents today about this and explaining to them what's going to happen. So we don't have to make the decision if it comes. The way I present this is it's like a winter snowstorm alert. We don't know if it's coming.

But go out and buy the milk and the bread, right? Like, let's go out and buy the milk and the bread.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right.

Your vantage point is so incredibly interesting. Just because you see where all the money is coming from and where it's going, you really can sound the alarm on potentially how to fix major issues in your county. I think it's so great the things that you pay attention to really affect a lot of people or have the potential to affect a lot of people.

Well, I hope that you as a controller can hopefully turn some heads and make people vote the right way or at least bring attention to it enough that we can protect as many people as possible in these next couple of years because we need watchdogs like you to sound the alarm.

Yeah, thank you.

What gives you hope?

So, know, I've been going to these take down Tesla

rallies, right? So we're protesting in front of Tesla. And the first day, the first week that I was there, there was 40 of us out in the cold. And the next week, there was 80. And the next week, there was 140 something. And then the next week, there was 400 people out there standing in front of Tesla. That gives me hope.

Okay, yeah.

I don't always think that these rallies do anything, specifically from a political standpoint. What I do think that they do, which I think is the most important thing, is build community. And so even when you're holding a sign, if you don't think you're doing anything, you're building community. And you're giving other people hope because they see that you're there with them.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

It lets you know that there are actually still a lot of good people all around you. Even if you don't see them every day at work or you don't see them at the grocery store, like in that moment in time, you know that there are people in your area that came and stood up for something with you so that I can see how that gives you hope.

Exactly.

Yes.

my last question for you is, what plans do you have to get yourself through these next few years?

fight. I plan to fight.

you know, what I want people to remember, and we don't talk about this enough, Trump is an insurrectionist. So there is a Colorado case that found that he engaged in insurrection. And that Colorado case seems like it was overturned by the Supreme Court, but it wasn't. The only thing that was overturned in that Supreme Court case was that he could be taken off the ballot.

Sure.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

They did not disturb the fact that he was an insurrectionist, yet they still swore him in. But like there is still an argument, and I don't know who has standing for this today, we're all about standing, I don't know who standing for this, but there is an argument that he has engaged in insurrection, and under the Amendment 14, Section 3, he should not be our president. And we don't talk about that enough.

Yeah. Right.

I mean, in the arc of this country's history, there have been bad actors as president who committed atrocities And unfortunately, they never had accountability for their actions. I think it's difficult to live with the notion that Trump may never answer for any number of atrocities that he committed. The fact that

hundreds of thousands of excess deaths occurred during COVID because of his mismanagement of the pandemic. mean, he's never going to answer for that, ever. And he's never gonna answer potentially for the insurrection or he's never gonna answer for all the other terrible things that he is doing now. But it's people like you who are gonna fight for the right things. And hopefully thousands of others like you who are gonna move the needle in a more positive direction in the future. Like obviously right now,

America is in a period of contracture. Our democracy is contracted a little bit. But I do feel like as long as we don't give up, as long as we don't allow the Republican Party to take away our hope that we can make plans to move things forward. And you know what? It might take five, ten, fifteen, twenty-five, fifty years to accomplish that. But we have to we have to stay focused because like you said, there's too many people that depend on us to give up. So.

Yeah.

Yeah,

that's it. And I appreciate what you're doing too. Like you're doing a great job of spreading the word, right? And I just think that that's hugely important.

I'll be right there with you fighting.

I know that I can't do everything, but I try to do something. And this podcast is my contribution to Pennsylvania for democratic policies and the democratic spirit. And I hope that I can change some hearts and minds and give people the ability to also focus and do what they can every day. And it's people like you that give me that drive as well.

Yeah, no, I appreciate what you do.

Thank you.

Absolutely. Well, Mark, I think what you do is incredible. You're you I learned so much about what a controller does just by researching what you do. And I hope that you continue to do it. I love that we share our love for TikTok together. I love that a couple of your cases started on TikTok. And I just think you do a phenomenal job. So I really hope that the rest of your time as controller is filled with a lot of great accomplishments.

and I can't wait to see what you do next.

And I feel the same way about you. Thank you very much. I'll tell you just real quick. So you and I met when you were first starting your TikTok, you know, your TikTok journey. And I think it was your son. Was it your son? I can't remember. Somebody was like, dad, you know, knock it off or whatever. And I direct messaged you and was like, don't give up. And you're like, I'm not. I'm just like reworking things. And I was so happy about that. It has come so far from there. And I am so happy for you. And I really appreciate what you do.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

I know.

it turned out your son helped, right?

Thank

Yeah, I need some constructive criticism sometimes, but I think consistency is key. So I'm just going to keep plugging away.

Good, good, I'm glad to hear it.

Well, thank you so much for joining me here on the Zekely Podcast. Stay hopeful and get involved and until next time, let's keep building a stronger Pennsylvania together.