If your business has outgrown what you can do alone but you can't yet afford a full-time senior hire, fractional experts could be the strategic solution you've been missing. In this episode of the Collaborators UNITE Podcast, host Chuck Anderson sits down with recruiting specialist Lance LeFort to unpack the fractional hiring model — a smarter, budget-friendly way for small businesses and startups to access CMO, CFO, and CTO-level talent. Lance explains how experienced executives are actively seeking part-time roles that fit around their lifestyle, making it possible for growth-stage businesses to access decades of strategic experience at a fraction of the cost. You'll learn how to identify when you're ready for a fractional hire, how to find the right person, and how this approach reduces risk for both employer and expert. Perfect for coaches, consultants, and B2B service providers ready to scale without overextending their budget.

Q&A SECTION:

Q: What is a fractional expert and how is it different from a contractor or VA?

A: A fractional expert is a senior-level professional — think CMO, CFO, or CTO — who works part-time (two to three days a week) for your business. Unlike a VA who handles tasks, a fractional expert brings high-level strategy and decades of experience without requiring a full-time salary.

Q: Can a small business actually afford a fractional CMO or CFO?

A: Yes. Because fractional executives only want part-time work — often due to lifestyle priorities like family or semi-retirement — you access their full expertise at a fraction of the cost. You pay for the days they work, not a full-time package, making senior talent genuinely accessible for growth-stage businesses.

Q: How do I know when my business is ready for a fractional hire?

A: You're likely ready when VAs and task-based workers can no longer solve your growth problems. If you're hitting strategic ceilings — in marketing, finance, or operations — and need someone who can build infrastructure and lead decisions, it's time to consider a fractional expert.

Q: What happens if the fractional arrangement outgrows itself?

A: Many fractional relationships naturally evolve. As your business scales — especially after a funding round or revenue milestone — you can increase the person's hours or convert them to a full-time role if both parties want it. Lance calls it the "date before the marriage."

Q: What types of roles can be filled fractionally?

A: Almost any senior function can be filled fractionally — marketing (CMO), finance (CFO), technology (CTO/CIO), operations, and executive production. The model works anywhere you need strategic leadership but aren't yet at the stage to justify a full-time hire.

Q: How is the current job market making fractional hiring more appealing?

A: With a cautious hiring market, many businesses are hesitant to commit to full-time executive salaries. At the same time, experienced professionals prefer the flexibility of part-time work. Fractional hiring meets both needs — lower commitment for the business, better lifestyle for the expert.

Q: How do I find the right fractional expert for my business?

A: Work with a specialist recruiter like Lance LeFort who understands both the business need and the talent pool. The right match isn't just about skills — it's about energy, cultural fit, and threading the person's specific expertise into your exact gaps.

QUOTES:

"You could get a very senior person with a great resume who doesn't want the five-day-a-week hustle — and you're not having to pay the full freight charge on that salary." — Lance LeFort

"Think of it as the date before the marriage. They work together for six months, the business starts to ramp up, and then it potentially becomes a full-time gig — if both sides want it." — Lance LeFort

"I'm like a doctor and someone says, here's the ailment — I've got this solution, or this solution, or let's try this. I'm matchmaking to solve their problem." — Lance LeFort

"It mitigates the risk on both sides. Do I really want to go back full time? No. Does this person really have the money to hire someone full time? No. So let's do this little dance for a bit and let it evolve." — Lance LeFort

LINKS:

https://calendly.com/lance-ltg/podcast-friday

http://www.leforttalentgroup.com/ ­

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Until next time, keep moving forward!

Chuck Anderson,

Affiliate Management Expert + Investor + Mentor

https://AffiliateManagementExpert.com/

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to the show.

This is the Collaborators Unite Podcast, Chuck Anderson here, your host.

And this is the show where we serve big impact experts.

And that's you if you're on a mission to make a big impact or a big positive impact in the lives of others, maybe even the community, maybe even the world.

Uh depends on what your big idea is.

And you get to decide what big impact is.

And you know, one of the challenges on this journey to make a bigger impact is.

Sometimes you outgrow your ability to do things yourself.

Perhaps you have a uh a small team, perhaps you have a growing team, uh, perhaps you need a team or you need bigger uh and better and smarter people on your team, but you can't

afford them.

And and and so we're gonna be talking about that today and uh in how to hire a fractional uh

expert.

So maybe a fractional CMO or a fractional CFO.

We'll we're gonna dive into that.

Well today's guest, Lance LaFort, is an expert in this.

And that's what's special about Lance is that he helps you to find these experts in a way that is budget friendly because you're not ready for a full-time person yet.

So Lance, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me on.

I really appreciate being here.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the our conversation because this is not a topic that we've really covered before.

and uh but you know, for anyone who is on a mission like our coach or a consultant or our B2B service provider, you know, who has kind of graduated from solopreneur and you know,

they're they're they're always trying to get to the next level.

And, you know, what's the first thing we do?

We hire VAs and we

Which are very task oriented.

But then we realize, well, VAs aren't gonna bring with them the strategy.

They don't have the experience, perhaps, that we need.

And that's where I mean these fractional experts really come in.

And so I really love the idea.

tell everybody a little bit more about this, like what it really means and how did it come to be that you're you are the guy uh for this, and we'll we'll use that as our launching

pad for this conversation.

Excellent.

Thanks, Chuck.

I I'll I'll start at the beginning, just how I got into recruiting was sort of funny.

I I c started getting recruiters calling me and I back in the day I'm like, Who are these people?

I I didn't even know what a recruiter was.

And finally I figured out 'cause they kept saying, you know, I've got this job, you should go look at this job, you should meet my client.

And it's a bit of a crossroads in my in my career at the time, and I'm like, I don't want to keep doing what I'm doing.

I'm in a marketing guy, I'm an account management guy, and I was a creative guy originally.

I thought I'd see if I can get back to an art director job or some creative director role in an ad agency.

Anyways, long story short, one recruiter called me, heard that, and said, Here's what I think you should do.

I recruit for ad agencies.

That's all I do.

And he said, But I d I do the suits.

I need someone to handle the purple hair, the earrings, the the creative people, right?

So he said, You come in and be a creative recruiter, because you're kind of mm a creative suit.

He said, You're a a guy who understands dealing with clients and sales and marketing, but you have an artistic background.

He said, You'd be the perfect kind of person to interview these people.

So so that was my segue in.

I work corporate side for many years at video game studios, animation, visual effects.

I come from a manufacturing and sales and distribution background.

So I kinda have this

Holistic picture of operations, how things come together, how sales and distribution works, how creative works.

and

After working corporate for many years, I had clients calling me or friends calling me saying, Could you go ahead hunt X for me, whatever it is?

I said, I I've got a job.

I can't I can't do that.

I you know, I can't have a side hustle recruiting while I'm anyways, long story short, I eventually had so many requests I thought, I'm gonna go on my own, I'm gonna go solo, I'm

gonna do this out of my house as a small agency.

and we were stinking busy for many years and we still have all sorts of um it evolved and evolved.

I had people working for me all over the world a few times.

and the market's kind of tricky right now.

It's kind of I would call it defibrillating.

It's a little cautious.

And so a lot of our clients were saying, look, Lance, I I really don't need a CMO.

Well, I need one, but I can't afford one.

And I'm like, why don't we get you a senior person?

That actually probably doesn't want a five day a week job.

They've got kids or they've got aging parents or they've got but they've done it all, seen it all.

And two days a week or three days a week is really all they really want to do right now.

So you could get a very senior person with a great resume that doesn't want the five day a week hustle.

Right?

Now you're getting senior strategy or getting senior experience and

you're not having to pay the full freight charge, so to speak, on that salary, right?

So so that's kind of we're matchmaking, we're corporate matchmaking, and it could be marketing, it could be a CTO, a CIO, it could be an operations person, anywhere in the

business.

And um I don't think it's really new concept.

You know, a lot of people have been hiring contractors for years, but I think it's more topical right now because the market's a little cautious, let's say that.

Right.

So so I do find sometimes coaches that are running a small agency and their background is in

something that one of my clients needs and I say, hey, they just need a consultant to come in maybe two days a week or two days a month even, or take away a six-week project for

them and build some part of their infrastructure and then deliver it to them.

Have you got bandwidth to do that?

Right?

And

That's kind of the, you know, meshing of the gears, so to speak, is I'm trying to find somebody that threads in properly with the client's needs.

And I you know, I often sort of joke that I'm like a doctor and someone says, Here's the ailment.

I'm like, uh, I've got this solution for it or this solution or let's try this, right?

And so I'm matchmaking trying to solve their problem.

And so it's I love this part of the job 'cause I get to meet a lot of coaches.

I get to meet a ton of people out there who, um, probably have two or things two or three things going on right now and they've got

one superpower, but they do have two very good adjacent skills.

And sometimes a contract like this is exactly what they're looking for.

Like, I could do that.

You know, so it's and if the client likes them and likes the energy and then we put that deal together.

And also sometimes it's the

date before the marriage.

You know, they get working together for six months.

The business starts to ramp up and they ta say to that person, hey, could you come in an extra day a week or two days a week?

And then it becomes a full time gig, potentially if the person wants it, right?

So there's this I think it mitigates the risk on both sides.

Do I really want to go back full time?

No.

Does this person really have the money to hire someone full time?

No.

So let's do this little dance for a bit, see how it works and let it evolve.

And you know if it doesn't work, they part.

If it gets busier and startups

Are very much like this, right?

They get a second or third round of funding.

All of a sudden, now they really need that person full time, or they can hire somebody else as well.

So it's incremental steps, if I could say that.

It's the evolution of a startup or even a small mid-sized company.

I had one a few years back where they said we need an executive producer to do this, this, and this.

I said, I don't think you're there yet.

Don't blow that big salary yet.

Let me find you two pro product managers to build your product out further and get it more of it into market.

Now we're gonna build your base, your fundamentals.

You pay that big salary, that's only one person.

Let's get you two.

So that's part of my job is in that matchmaking, is to assess what they're doing from my background and my experience and just throw up suggestions.

Hey, here's three scenarios, which one fits for you guys?

And because you know, some sometimes companies hire the wrong person to

early.

Right?

Or or they wait too long and then they're like now they got a fire burning and they should have hired me six months ago, so that happens as well.

Does that does that make sense, Chuck?

It it does.

And um being a for former chief marketing officer, I can I I was recruited in kind of a a weird way, but uh but but you know I I I I get what you're saying and um one of the

things, you know, with the with the audience that we're serving, right, I think there's and I want you to g weigh in on this if you could.

many of them have VAs or sort of very task oriented team members.

really always looking to the that founder or that that person to for direction and all of the strategy comes from them.

And, you know, I've had conversations with some of them that, you know, again, they're trying to figure out like, do I hire more VAs or better VAs or this VA didn't work for me?

And and what I don't hear a lot is that I'm gonna go and look for a strategic person who can who can take this off my plate.

What are you noticing?

What are you hearing?

What are you

recommending for people who are at that stage.

Yeah, great question.

I mean I was uh just post COVID, I had about eight contractors working for me.

I had VAs and I had recruiters and I had salespeople and marketing people.

And um I was at that spot where I thought, What is the next step?

And the next step for me would have been I need to replace myself, get a general manager to run the day to day and then I'm gonna go find a buyer and sell this.

That's what I was thinking.

Like

Z sometimes people don't have an exit plan, but if you even put it up as a hypothetical, if I had to exit, what's that look like?

And it can't be you and 10 VAs or 12 VAs or six VA, you know what I mean?

There has to be somebody else integral to the business.

And so that's a real challenge right now because you know and I know that agentic AI is everywhere and people are trying to do everything with bots right now.

You know, perfect example, a friend of mine had about 10 uh employees a few years ago.

He's down to two now, and everything else is being done on the back end with bots, right?

The whole thing is agentic AI.

And he's working a million hours a day.

to keep it all running.

Um he's waking making Yes, and he's making w

I've been there, that's the top where all the time goes is you're building the so g get a let's get a agencai AI g person in to take that off our plate.

well well that yeah, I totally agree.

You should outsource some of that.

And I also think that while he's making huge profit margin right now, I think he could probably take a bit of time off if he brought in a mid level project manager or account

manager or even a recruiter, 'cause he he works in a recruiting uh agency.

And so there needs to be and I also find you might find this too, I don't

Personally, and I've seen a lot of data on this, people don't like being talked to by bots and automated callers.

Not yet.

I think the next generation might not care as much, but the current generations are like, hey, I saw study the other day, 78% of people hang up the phone if they figure out it's a

robotial.

78%.

Right?

So in my mind, whatever you do that's client-facing.

VA is one thing, but I I honestly think sometimes they don't understand the business enough and I've hired many overseas and um even some of my candidates or clients that

we're talking to are like, hey, just FYI, that person did eighty percent of the job really well, but the twenty percent they did really threw me off because they didn't understand

the culture.

They don't understand some nuance about something we're working on.

And so that missing link sometimes is pretty critical.

So another reason why I don't think you can outsource everything.

point you want to have some kind of crew.

Um also again if you wanted to exit, you can't exit if you are 99% of the business.

No one's gonna buy that.

You have to put standards and systems in place, you have to have a repeatable business, you have to have something that looks like if you stepped out tomorrow it will keep

running at least some portion of itself.

So things to think about for a lot of solopreneurs because some of them don't think eight, 10, 5 years down the road, they also don't consider if I got sick, who's gonna run the

business?

Right?

the solopreneur or the coach and they do everything.

And while that might soothe their ego some days and feel really cool that they're the marketer and the CFO and that they did it da da da da da da one of my coaches years ago he

said if you spent more than two days thinking about something and you haven't done it yet, outsource it.

Mm-hmm.

bookkeeper right away.

That's the first thing I tell everyone.

Get a bookkeeper.

You don't want to be doing books.

You don't want to be doing invoicing.

You don't want to be doing billing.

Unless that's your business.

If you're an accounting firm, sure.

But if you're anybody else, that's one of the first fractionals if you want.

You know, I've got someone I pay by the hour.

Um, and then you don't have to worry about that.

It's all handled.

Somebody else does the chase and all the other stuff, right?

So there's the first one, right?

and and so back to your question, it's it's sort of like

i as I said before, it it can't be just you.

It i if you want to build something that's sustainable or or sellable or has some legs that you can take some vacation time off, you can't be checking your phone while you're

skiing and while you're you know, you know what I mean?

You want to build an enterprise at some point.

So it it does seem to me that

If it's not the bottom and it's not the top, someone in the middle.

If it's not someone in the middle, it's someone at the top that only comes in two days a week or two days a month or something.

But you get that senior perspective and that person probably also works a bit like the devil's advocate and it's a sounding board.

Hey, I was thinking this.

What do you think?

Well, I think we could build out these things and take some weight off your shoulders, right?

And I young entrepreneur I was talking about earlier in the week where he's working probably 18 hours a day right now.

He's enjoying it.

But that's not sustainable.

you know, y he's gonna burn out.

He's not he's gonna have days where it just crashes, right?

he's got a great product, he's got a great service, um, but he needs to build out and he doesn't have the cash flow to build a team right now.

So that's I'm consulting with him working on a number of things where we can do it up in stages, slowly step it up, right?

and really it's let's build the market first.

Let's get some more clients.

Let's focus on sales and commissions first.

And once you got more cash flow, now the questions get easier to answer.

Does that sit well, Chuck?

it really, really does.

And uh, you know, one thing I'm wondering too, just for you know, the sake of people listening in is, you know, where do they start?

Like where what what is what is the next hire they should consider?

What are some of the maybe the problems or challenges you're hearing from people as they come into you for the first time?

Is like, you know, here's where my business is at, here's where I want to go.

You know, who do I need?

How do I find them?

Like, you know, so

What what are you advising there?

Like, cause there's so many choices, like do I find a sales guy, do I get a marketing person?

Bookkeepers are great advice.

I wish someone told me that twenty years ago.

Uh, you know, and and that should have been my first hire, cause it would have saved me a hundred thousand dollars easily.

uh

hear ya, I hear ya.

Yeah.

It's same thing.

I thought, I've got this free accounting package.

I'll do my own billing and you know, and then you're pfft, you're at midnight sending out an invoice going, Why am I up at midnight sending out an invoice?

I could pay someone thirty or forty dollars an hour.

So but back to your question, I I think it def it's very contextual, right?

It's very situational about the business itself.

Each one's a little different.

you know, recently I had a couple different companies saying, Well, I need to hire a CIO or CTO and I get in and kind of do an analysis and um suggest that

you know potentially they don't need one right now what they need is a couple senior programmers just to build out more of the code on something or another one where I had a

client down in um San Francisco saying I need to hire an executive producer right away.

The more we talked them the more I thought no no same thing you need two senior product managers right now because you're in that phase where if I bring in a executive producer,

um that person may have come up through the ranks and have great hands-on skills but you need some more people in the trenches.

Still.

So why don't we look at that?

So and that's kind of you know, again, from my instincts, sometimes I get in, we talk and talk, and then try to figure out what is the best fit.

recruiting fees are not cheap.

That's something I want to throw out there too.

I mean, often uh a lot of executive headhunters will charge anywhere from on the low end, maybe 15% up to on the high end.

I've got a few friends that charge 30% of the first year's compensation.

So if you're hiring someone at 100 grand, on the low end of the market, you're paying fifteen thousand dollars for the transaction.

On the high end, you're paying $30,000 for a $100,000 hire, right?

And it goes up and up.

If it's a $300,000 hire fee's often the same.

Um, so that fee is exhausted for any small company.

Like, they can't pay that, that's crazy, right?

So, so another reason why sometimes the fractional works.

Look, I'll take a percentage of the fee, we'll prorate it, right?

Or we can stagger it out and build a payment plan for them if they really need that.

but the main thing is that you know they get the senior help in, whether it's sales, marketing, technology,

Technology wherever it needs to be.

And you know, a lot of smaller companies really, as you know, they live and die by sales.

They need

Someone like yourself with a lot of affiliates, right?

They need a network, right?

And so that's often some of the coaching is like, you know what, you need to meet Chuck.

He's gonna tie you into a whole bunch of people in the networks.

And similar with myself, when they come to me, I'm like, well, I've got a network.

Let's see if someone in my network can help you with what your problem is, right?

And so sometimes it's not always just I'm the headhunter, I'm the matchmaker or the connector, right?

And um, you know, literally building an advisory board for for a young company right now, and they're like, We need a board of directors.

like, not with fiduciary yet.

You need an advisory board right now.

And then later, if you really need one, we can talk about that.

So I'm counseling them, you know, on the structure of getting their business up to the next level.

but yeah, it's like you know, it is one of those things where a lot of small companies are are shocked at the fees.

And so uh again, I try to structure them or give them some sort of way of financing it, putting it together.

or we'll do a thing where look, I'm not gonna charge the full fee unless hire the guy full time.

time but hopefully by that point you've got revenue because of the people we've brought in that you know so we in the in the business it's called temp to perm.

We're doing a temporary contract until it becomes permanent and then we bill the the rest or the balance if it becomes a full time

Did I I'm not sure, Chuck, if I answered that question in five thousand words or less.

Where where do they start?

You saw I think you said where do they start?

And I again it's contextual.

It's it's what's the company need?

And do they need more context and more sales?

Do they have a hardware problem?

Do they have a coding problem?

You know, a friend of mine came to me a few summers ago, really busy climate at the time.

Everyone was slammed with work.

And he said, I need a senior programmer that he gave me all the coding languages that this person had to have and the experience and so on.

And he said, I've been running ads for like six months.

Zero replies.

And I said, Well, everyone's busy.

Everyone's got three or four offers.

So that's an instance where smaller companies don't have the time to allocate to hiring.

So they hire a guy like me.

Now it's my whole job, right?

So that's what sort of justifies the fee.

It's like I'm actually coming in as your fractional recruiting officer for a chunk of time.

It could be six or eight weeks.

And therefore, that's my fee is attached to the fact that this search might take two or three months, right?

We've been on some senior

Where they're eight or nine months sometimes be for a whole bunch of reasons, like challenging climate, challenging position, or the difficult relocation.

I've done positions in Saudi Arabia.

You know, and they were like, well, we want an American or Canadian with marketing experience to come down to Saudi Arabia.

I'm like, oh, this is gonna be a challenging hunt, you know.

And and so there are there are each specific one.

I've got one, well, two actually in the States right now in the energy sector where they're building data centers.

And

It's such a high demand right now because these data centers are going up like lickety split and there are supply chain issues.

Um there are also the components being built are very specialized.

There's not enough engineers in most states to do the number of vacancies that are open.

So we're getting pulled into a vacuum like that, needle in a haystack.

And

the package has to have relocation because there's no way I've got somebody local.

There's there's no talent pool, right?

We've got to pull someone from six, seven, eight hours away and relocate their family and it's an expensive move.

but they're just, you know, if it was corn, there's no corn growing in the field right next door.

You've got to go six hours down the road to get the corn, right?

So so anyways, that's that's the challenge with some industries are booming right now and it's a shortage of talent.

And so

They put a guy like me on it.

We're hound dogs.

We go out and we just have to talk to a hundred or two hundred or three hundred people in a few weeks and get a short list of people that are interested in the adventure, willing

to move, curious, you know, maybe they're at a spot in their life where this s move makes sense.

but most small businesses do not have this much time.

There's no way they can commit you I'm I'm I'm working around the clock with all sorts of agentic AI and all sorts of software to scrape hundreds of people every night and then you

know sort it in the morning when when I wake up.

And um most companies don't have that bandwidth, right?

So w when they get usually over 200, 250 people, they usually have some one or two people internally now that they can say, Well, here's our HR team slash part-time recruiting team

when we get busy.

Now they've got sort they've got a resource, right?

Even those companies

still come outside because they need a specialist.

You know they'll and even uh when I was corporate I had teams working for me, four, five, six people.

And we had a a sweet spot of hires we did really well.

And I remember at one company we did not do finance well.

The CFO would just go hire a financial recruiter.

Because he said, guys, this could take you six weeks.

These people have

A list of candidates they tried to place last week and you know, one got hired, but they've got five ready to go.

I just need lickety split, I need my finance team built.

Nothing personal.

I'm gonna spend the money out there.

And I said, Great, because we're hiring engineers and artists and software developers and you know.

So so that sometimes happens where even if a even some large corporations have an HR department with

Maybe a couple of recruiters in there or what do they call talent acquisition people.

Um but even then sometimes we get called in because we have a specialty and their team doesn't have it.

So they know that we're gonna produce quicker and um and they're in a time crunch.

We just landed three major pieces of business.

We have to add I've many times been called and said, Hey, we need to hire like three hundred people and I'm like, Over what time period?

They're like, No now.

I'm like, that's that's interesting.

you know, and then we we

reverse engineer it and then forward it up again and and I've I've done several of those.

I don't get them all the time but when I do them it's you know it's like building an army for a war that's already started.

And you're, you know, doing six weeks of basic training and everyone's into the trench and away to go.

Um yeah.

of business you're in, when you make the decision that you w need something, it it's now.

I mean, we so many people that we serve are either early six figures or on their way to about two million in revenue and then and then at two million you kinda you know, things

kinda change in the way what you were doing there is not gonna get you to twenty million.

And um, but you've replaced yourself, maybe you've got some SOPs, you've got a team.

and like I said earlier, you may you might have that strategic person, or maybe you're all the strategy yourself.

And um, you know, before we run out of time, I just want to make sure, like for those folks listening in, because um, look, they might only need one person right now, or maybe

they need a couple, but you know, deciding what they need and

You know, I going back to something you said earlier, somebody comes to you, they say, I need a I need an executive this or or or that.

And you're like, now that I've assessed this, no, you don't need that.

You what you need is t these instead.

And I think at the stage I just described, that is super valuable.

That would be a reason to work with someone like you versus hiring themselves and perhaps just getting more of the same of what they already have.

Well and yeah, you bring up a great point, Chuck.

I mean the

I think in the industry they call the you know the the owner bias, right?

I want someone who thinks like me, talks like me, smells like me, thinks you know, and because it's comfort, right?

And and often what you want actually is the counter to that.

You know, you want someone who challenges your ideas and and looks at them differently because there's much more strength in that.

You know, I think of like Bill Gates at Microsoft, right?

He used to always like looking at some hot piece of software that was doing great on the market and then he would purchase them, right?

Rather than compete with them, he's like, they're smarter than this, let's go buy them.

Right, and bring them into the Microsoft family and make our product smarter and sharper and faster.

So I think, you know, as much as as brilliant as he was at the time and how clever he was, he's he had that ability to go, I'm not everything.

You know, and I can't be everything.

And if I think I am, I'm probably fooling myself or as as my dad used to say, if you're trying to hide something, it becomes apparent to everyone around you, you know, but

they're not telling you about it, but they're like, dude, you really need to get out of the way, right?

And that's something we you and I hear a million times about entrepreneurs.

Like, at some point the founder has to get out of the way of the business, right?

And so it it does help to start building a nucleus of of partners if you can, or senior staff that will carry twenty, thirty, forty percent of the business for you.

And and then incentivize them to stay, right?

Otherwise you're you know, that's the other founder fear.

It's like, this person's gonna leave now.

What am I gonna do, right?

Well, part of that is the evolution of the company, right?

You're gonna have to replace those people again.

So um yeah, so I mean that's that's the

That's the challenge always is like how does the founder get out of the way.

My my joke always when I remember being a young guy in sales and I had a territory with consumables, so a lot of my clients just reordered all the time.

So I don't really have to actively go after them for consumables, but we had other products that were sort of key products.

And and so if I got one and buy that, that'd be twenty, thirty, fifty, sometimes two, three hundred thousand dollars.

And then my my monthly sales target would spike 'cause I closed a big order.

But the joke was always, you know, you take a vacation

come back and your sales increased while you're away.

And the and the and your boss would be like, Hey, you should go away on vacation more often.

I'm like, No, no, that was you know, that was coming.

and I think that's true, you know, as founders, uh, we need to do that sometimes.

I mean, my my sales went up just this past July while I was away.

And so um partly because we had we knew I was gonna be away, we put some things in place before I left, but the systems and the team was able to execute on that because I know I I

certainly wasn't gonna be able to to do anything with it during that time.

And yeah, sales did go up and we're still realizing a ripple effect of that right now.

And so so yeah, sometimes uh it's it's us as the founder um that is in the way.

Um this is a great conversation and I want to make sure that we leave people with a way to connect with you because I think you know we've we've covered a lot of ground.

I know we have an audience probably more on the smaller end of, you know, between you know early six figures and two million, but certainly we have some big companies in here as

well.

Wherever you're at, um, there is a solution for you.

And this idea of hiring someone fractional, but not just fractional, but you might have have an idea that you need a CMO, you talk to Lance, he's gonna say, Maybe you do, maybe

you don't, maybe you need these, you know, people instead.

And and I think that's where the real value is in what I heard today.

Lance, how do they connect with you?

What's what's a next step they can take to either learn more from you?

Connect with you, whatever that is.

And I'll make sure I put all your links beneath the video here.

No, thanks Chuck.

I think the easiest one is just DM me on on LinkedIn because as an HR guy, I'm on there daily.

We do a lot of work on LinkedIn.

So that's the easiest, quickest way to get a hold of me.

Um and my inbox lately is full of spam from, you know, all these AI bots and all the other stuff.

So b my my email is is is kind of like a a filtration challenge daily.

I've got bots trying to fight at bots now, right?

So yeah.

LinkedIn, DM me on LinkedIn.

to try to find within all of that the emails that I need to answer and get rid of everyone else.

it's it's wild right now.

This is too much digital noise for sure.

Yeah.

yeah, for sure.

Well, that's really great.

Um, I'm a LinkedIn guy too.

I really love LinkedIn.

I've put uh if you're watching this on video, Lance's uh links right beneath this video.

If you're listening to this on podcast, just open up your phone, whatever you're listening to this on, uh Lance's link is right there as well.

Um, Lance, thank you.

Uh I really enjoyed this conversation.

It's one that uh I don't get to have very often.

Uh we've I don't think we've had it on this show.

yet.

So um thank you for for being that guy to uh bring this subject because I think it is relevant regardless of what stage your business in.

There's you might approach it differently, but I think it is uh very, very relevant.

And before we sign off, I just want to ask you if you have any favorite quote or piece of advice or words of wisdom you want to leave our audience with here today.

Yeah, I I think it's a Steve Jobs quote about signal and noise.

Have you heard it before?

Yeah, and I love that because um you know, there are two things.

One is the signal and one is the noise.

And the signal is what you really need to do today, but the noise is about eighty or ninety percent and it's trying to drown out the signal, right?

And as an entrepreneur or small business owner

That's your day, right?

Fending off all and reprioritizing as things happen.

So really think about every day.

I think signal or noise.

What am I doing right now?

Is it signal?

Is it gonna make me money today?

Am I paying for my chair, so to speak?

Um, or am I getting trapped in things that are non revenue generating and don't really have many legs?

But or you know, entrepreneurs often have shiny object problem, right?

that looks cool.

I'm gonna invest in that, I'm gonna just jump into that thing, right?

And you gotta be careful, right?

Yeah.

So So, yeah, signal and noise.

That's really great.

Focus on the signal and you know, outsource the noise or, you know, just, you know, like, you know, the things that are not going to move the needle for you.

Um, I think that's great uh advice to leave this episode by.

Than Lance, thank you.

To our audience, thank you as well.

Thank you for being here.

If you're listen still listening to my voice right now, it means this episode resonated with you.

And that means

That I well recommend you take the next step, and that is to reach out to Lance and see what he can do to help you.

Uh, in the meantime, I just want you to remember that the big impact, the big mission that you're on is worth it.

And uh there's no big problem or challenge too big to overcome.

You might be just one collaboration away, uh, or one fractional expert away from a big breakthrough that you need in your business.

And so take.

action towards that, solve the problem.

And I'll leave you with this and that is the only way to fail the only way to fail is to quit.

So keep moving forward and we'll see you on the next one.

Thank you.

Yeah.