Many people consider endings to be a negative experience. A sporting injury could send you into a spiral of depression, but with the right mindset, you could turn even the worst of outcomes into positive lifestyle changes. 

This week Hazel is joined by Jonnie Whittle, ex-professional rugby player and founding partner of Major Oak. Hazel shares the skills needed to help reframe situations in your life.

If you want a better understanding of the endings happening in your own life. I have the perfect thing for you, my 5-step worksheet, developed specifically for listeners of this podcast, and based on years of my research. 

Click here for your Thriving Through Endings worksheet, now.

Apologies for the typos, this is an AI transcription

Johnny was born in. Previously a mining town in the north of England, but now famous for Rugby League, Heinz Beans, Batak, Curry based, and Uncle Joe's mumbles. It's a great place. You know, there was always plenty of family around and like many others in Wiggin, they were very close.

Saturday, Sunday,

And then there was rugby.

He was spotted by working warriors and signed as a professional at just 18. He was offered a rugby scholarship from the University of Oxford, which he turned down after university. He pursued his rugby career in earnest, playing professionally for Wiggin witness wake. And Featherstone for a number of years and after a great run decided it was high time for a break.

I tried to tell myself I'd not done anything carried on. Physio was trying to get me off and I was just, wouldn't have any of it. Uh, I knew what was coming. So then, anyway, I collected the cup, we won, and then I was in hospital and there was no chance me traveling the world with that. It's like, I think it was an eight month recovery.

So I started to think, though, that's what I'll go into. And then after having a bit of a try at that, it wasn't for me cuz there weren't people, there was computers and, and numbers, but there weren't enough people. I just liked business and people I liked under trying to understand people and see what drives them.

I just fell into financial services. It was just quicker to get in front of people with the financial services and the path being qualified.

And I'm like, okay. It was quite an easy sell mon, but I turned up and when he was starting to tell me, This is what I want to put half a million put into a pension over. It was at the time I was like, but you not need it for the business. What's your plan? The business, you're not gonna build the business a bit more.

And and it was that because I needed to understand that the advice I was giving was right for the whole picture. I think I always asked to ask more questions, so it went quickly that I loan my trading financial services. Financial planning, wealth management, investment management. But I've, I've always had that bigger interest in what's right for this person I'm trying to help.

And is it right long term for them.

So I didn't see much, he didn't see much of me, of a, of a child, and I think I, I felt that more than what, what I realized back then, and I was very conscious of the fact that I needed to spend time with my children because I knew, you know, I'm, I guess I missed time with my dad in his fifties.

I remember my dad telling me about the kids. You know, you, you think he should have a kid. Should I wait until I've got the next house? There's never a right time. Just have it and make it right. And I, and I think once obviously my dad passed away, I think he was just one of them, that I need to have a go at doing things myself or the way I think works better.

It was my mom that kept three, you know she brought up three kids along with my grandma and my dad's mom. So the word loyalty's key Hazel, who? It's two. It's two. Just other family members, people that you know. And it's strange you say that cuz one. Um, from, you know, I played at Wiggin Rugby on the badges, ancient and loyal.

So loyalty, as I said, Wiggin is quite a, it's got strong roots that way.

It's you understanding that individual, seeing what the drivers. And then seeing what the partnership is between you and them. And there's different people in that, you know, and that's why as long as there's trust and honesty, there're in one way, or I can see honesty. Some even some people don't give you the honesty direct, but you, you know where they're coming from.

So it's still fine, if that makes sense.

I've, I've shown I can do that. Probably pushed it a bit too hard of a snapples, but, um, but um, yeah, I think it just ended that, that time in, in, in me trying to develop myself as a, as an athlete maybe. I think it ended.

There's nothing else that will get your attention. You're all going for one. Um, obviously the Marine, it's not life and death on rugby field, but it's very physical, but you've always got someone to lean on and I think the transition over from sport to business, it shocked me. And one of the main things I remember having a chat with someone else that had made the change at the same time is how was saying about honesty and trust going into business.

I'd never come across people. You didn't have that automatic value and connection, but business, it's a totally different world. And to meet people who can sit in front of you and say one thing and then really mean something else, either doing it on purpose or not, it was just a strange thing for me. And not being able to lean, rely on that team closest.

It's the instant feedback I think that's key in sport. I think what sports gives you is it's an acceptance that that's your position, you are good at that. You're terrible at that, Johnny, but you're good at that. I suppose someone not too recently. He said, I found it really strange. I said, you in sport, you're told for so long how bad you are basically to get better and you, and you accept that.

Whereas in business, you told how good you're in, actually you're not that good, you know, you really are bad. And he said, I've just really struggled with that one. So, Yeah, the two things I missed in sport is just that general being, you know, you've been around lads and it is lads, isn't it? It's single sex team, everyone calls it the banter, but it's just that closeness. And even when things are hard people will be there for you. And so I've definitely missed that, but as well, I've just missed that honesty. I'm finding it now. Cause what happens if you go into business and you try and work with every.

And then you start and you know how to work in business, you find people that just match your values and then so again, the trust starts going back and things happen easier and quicker again, I guess.

He was known as a stronger honest man as well, so to see him die, it just gives you that shock. So making a decision of going into business on your own, if it doesn't work, so what I'll go back to what I was doing. You know, it takes away that fear, I guess.

And I was like, probably 11. But it was all, I think, here's the word I'm going to hear is there's a connection here and me going into science as well. The word everyone uses there is energy and energy for me, it does explain everything. You know, I'm happy with that. People have different religions, people have minds.

I'm not saying science is my religion cuz it's not what energy. I just understand the world With that, I got into a phase where my dad died of reading a lot of spiritual books or books about spirituality. I'd already read books on buddism and things like that, trying to understand it, but just general spirituality.

And I understand when I look back, he is one of the most spiritual people. One of the laws, energy can't be destroyed, just changes its forms., it just answers everything. There's no, there's, there is no end really. It's just, it's just a, you know, it's a change of coat, a change of form.

The energy is, um, it, it's eternal. It carries on forever.

Yeah.

Uh, bringing human energy, human capital, an idea that one person's thought, giving that vision to however many staff they have, helping them drive that. And it's re, you know, so that energy, that's all we put in. And then it's re, you know, it's just brought back into money. It's just an exchange. It just changes its form.

So a hundred percent it explains everything to me. And the more I've got into corporate finance and selling businesses and things, some of the most. The best corporate finance professionals, all PE guys I've come across, you know, they'll swoop in, they'll meet the people that are driving the business, and they can make a decision within 15 minutes, 30 minutes of being that individual.

Obviously, all the rest of the stuff has done the financial due diligence, all the checks by all the. All the financial institutions and making sure everything, and then the legals and, but the people that really make that decision, and you can tell exactly what they're looking for, looking for the individuals and seeing where the drivers and energy comes from and seeing if it's aligned with what they want as investors.

It's really, it's quite simple really. If you can sit back and look at it from that perspective.

It's got to be redistributed and changed forms back into knowledge and human capital, and then passed on generationally. And whether that's. Yeah. Whether that's through children, their own children, or just from a social aspect. I think that's, that's key. So any ending that I have now, it's just, oh, what's happened up until now is just shown me that yeah there's a flow of something and it's just, you've just gotta, you've just gotta try and do your bit.

I'm lucky enough that I've got some team members I work with, but people who work with through businesses. Where it ends up or where this goes, I'm not sure, but I think as long as everyone feels like there's some kind of development or moving forward, So the future? Yeah, the future for me is just to keep doing what I'm doing and see where it takes was really keep just supporting good human beings and being around good human beings.

Now, one thing Johnny did really well was be able to see those endings as transition as a change to something else. He described it as energy, but being able to change in your mind something negative and describe it in a way that's, And hear it differently and feel it differently. We call reframing and it's really powerful technique and it sits at the heart of cognitive behavioral therapy, C B T.

And it means you can always choose how you feel and it's something you might want to try cuz you can use the principles anytime you like. And for example, I always think if you go to a networking event and you say hello to someone, for example they don't say hello back. Now there's a couple of things you can do.

You can either turn that in on yourself and think, oh my goodness, they've just ignored me. Am I the kind of person people ignore? Or what have I done that I offended them? It could also turn out on them and think, how rude, I don't want to talk to them anymore and, or I'll leave this networking event and it can ruin your day and you spend the whole day torturing yourself over what happened.

But you could also stop and think, how do I see this differently? What else could it. They might have had their headphones in, they might have had their head full of thoughts. They might have been, uh, deaf. They may have just been shy and or it might not have been them. They may genuinely have been ignoring you, but for whatever reason, they're not saying hello to you.

You don't know. So the kids, you pick the one that's more positive because if you walk around thinking I said hello and they just didn't hear me, then you feel good. That's the bit to tap into. So if you think of something that's making you miserable, It might be around something that's ending right now.

It might not be, but write down as many alternative endings as you can and then tune into your body because our bodies don't tend a lie to us. So tune into how it feels and pick the one that feels good. Cuz it's just as much of a story as the one we picked that was making is miserable. And then don't we forget?

Don't forget, just because it's simple doesn't mean it isn't hard because a powerful part of your brain is invested in the first story, and I might fight you a bit because all the beliefs about yourself that it reinforced is the first thing you need to let go of Now. Whatever's happening today, now we're tough.

If it's important to hold an unshakable belief, it's gonna. Whilst doing something to make things better. You'll have heard that in the way that Johnny taught is that ability to, to do something, to act whilst being absolutely convinced that things will be okay in the future. That hopefulness again, we call that the Stockdale paradox.

It was all based on the experiences of Admiral German's doctor, and he was the prisoner in Vietnam. And what he noticed was that it wasn't just the pessimist who. Because, yeah, of course the pessimists, they just thought they were on hell on earth. It was awful. And they didn't make it cause they gave up.

But also the people who didn't make it with the optimists, because they're the people who originally thought, oh, we'll be out by Easter. We'll be out by Christmas. And then, oh, we will be out by next Easter. We'll be out by next Christmas. And broke the heart. They couldn't make it. So optimism alone isn't enough.

So you need. And that's the magic. It's the both unthinking of can I b absolutely look clear-eyed at what is happening today? I'm not gonna delude myself if it's bad. Just look at it squarely, but never lose sight of how things can be in the future and truly believe it's going to work out. And that's the thing you can do is that if you write the truest thing about your current situation on a piece of paper and the mother, how it.

And now mentally transport yourself to a time in the future when the thing you're dealing with is in the distant past. Imagine how that's gonna feel, and imagine how good it's gonna be, and just really think about what you'll be doing and what you're experiencing. Because although our brains might torture us with dark imaginings, it can also allow us to hope.

And that's the wonderful thing because hope is a powerful emotion and you will be.

Thank you to Johnny and I hope you enjoyed today's episode of Endings. If you'd like to share your thoughts, I would love to hear them. You can reach me at Hazel Cs on Twitter or on LinkedIn if you're interested in understanding the endings happening your life a little better. I have the perfect thing for.

It's my five step worksheet, developed specifically for listeners of this podcast, and it's based on years of my research. The first step will only take you about 20 minutes to complete, but it will bring you a lot closer to understanding how to make these difficult decisions around and endings. Click the link in the show notes to download your Thriving through and in's worksheet now. I'm Hazel Carter Showell and I hope you join me again for another episode of Endings.

Endings is produced by Fascinate Productions