HOW PAST EMOTIONS RESURFACE DURING A DIVORCE EP 96

HOST: Beverly Price, Divorce & Empowerment Coach

GUEST: Sharon Mosley, Sharon Mosley Mental Health Therapist

SUMMARY:

During a divorce, the long-buried emotional and psychological issues can resurface, intensifying the already challenging situation. Feelings of abandonment, betrayal, and inadequacy may reemerge, amplifying the conflicts between spouses. Unhealed wounds from the past can cloud judgment and hinder effective communication, leading to prolonged legal battles and heightened emotional turmoil. In this episode of Her Empowered Divorce, Host Beverly Price invites Sharon Mosley, a therapist and licensed mental health counselor with over 20 years of experience. They discuss the old tapes from our childhood and society that continue to play in our minds, how they can resurface during divorce, and what we can do about them to enhance our emotional and mental well-being.

Divorce doesn’t have to be a death sentence. With the right support and guidance, you can move through the process with knowledge, skills, and confidence. If you’d like to schedule a complimentary private consultation, reach out to Beverly at: https://beverly-price.as.me/Consultation.

Visit https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/her-empowered-divorce/id1635143315 to access the entire archive of Her Empowered Divorce episodes, and while you’re there, please subscribe, rate, and review our show!

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

●     Our past can resurface during divorce because so many of us as women have an identity as wives, and when divorce comes, and the title goes away, it can leave a big emotional gap.

●     Emotional and verbal abuse in a relationship can trigger old tapes, make us discredit ourselves of what we can do, manifest physically, and impact our kids.

●     Why is he doing this to me? Sometimes it may be a personal attack, and other times, it has very little to do with you; it is about something they have not resolved, and you become the target because you are close.

●     Regardless of where you are, it takes a lot of courage to come out and speak about what is happening in your divorce. Why? Because whatever you feel is real, no one can tell you what to feel and what not to feel, and it’s not your fault.

NOTABLE QUOTES:

●     The question of “what can I do after the divorce” is often rooted in something from childhood or earlier experiences, and what happens with partners is they reinforce the very thing you are trying to get away from. (Sharon)

●     Many women are dealing with emotional and verbal abuse and people putting them down. (Beverly)

●     Some of the old tapes that tend to come back after divorce are, I’m a failure, I don’t matter, my life has little meaning, and It’s my fault. It’s my fault is a big one, and often, the guilt of something that is not your fault can come back (Sharon)

●     The very person we are divorcing at some point was the very person we shared all or most of our intimate thoughts with, and they may know us better than just anyone; when we get to that place when we may no longer be friends, they know all the buttons to push to leave us in a vulnerable place. (Sharon)

●     What is happening to you emotionally can have a physical impact; the correlation between mental and emotional health is real; if you let something fester and not heal, it can spread like cancer and impact other areas of your life. (Sharon)

●     When a woman is the victim of verbal and mental abuse, it harms her ability to manage her divorce, and her emotional health can manifest physically and impact other areas of her life. (Sharon)

FURTHER RESOURCES/RELEVANT LINKS:

Beverly’s personal Facebook page can be found at: https://www.facebook.com/beverlyprice365/

Women’s Divorce and Empowerment group discussion available at: https://www.facebook.com/groups/divorcerecovery

ABOUT OUR GUEST:

Sharon Mosley is a Licensed Clinical Mental Health Counselor Supervisor (LCMHC-S) with over 20 years of experience. She is currently licensed to practice in NC and Arizona. Her educational background includes degrees in Agency Counseling (M.S.) and History (B.S) from North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University.

She is the owner of The Fit Talk PLLC, where she offers counseling and health coaching services to individuals and groups. She has experience providing individual, family, and group therapy for those struggling with a variety of mental health issues, including anxiety and depression. She also holds an A.C.E. health coach certification. Sharon is committed to healthier living and believes one of the best ways to approach this is through walk-and-talk therapy. She encourages clients to move beyond the office setting and take their sessions outside for walks on the trail when possible.

She received extensive training in a number of therapeutic approaches, including Motivational Interviewing, Trauma Informed Therapy, Gottman Couples Therapy, Substance Abuse Treatment, Mindfulness-Based Therapy, Binge Eating Treatment, Grief Summit, Suicide Risk Assessment, and Cognitive Behavior Therapy.

Sharon enjoys giving back to her community and served 15 years as a volunteer Disaster Mental Health Therapist with the American Red Cross, assisting families and individuals in crisis. She also served as a volunteer community member with the Durham County Hospital Corporation Patient Safety and Clinical Quality Committee. She is the membership chair of the local chapter of her college alma-mater. She is the co-chair of the membership committee of the Licensed Professional Counselors Association of North Carolina. She is also a member of the American Counseling Association. In her spare time, she enjoys spending time with family and friends and participating in races including 5ks and half marathons.

FOLLOW OUR GUEST:

Website: https://www.thefittalk.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thefittalk/

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/thefittalk/?hl=en

Twitter: https://twitter.com/thefittalk

Email: sharon@thefittalk.com

Phone No: (919) 695-7170

ABOUT YOUR HOST:

Beverly Price is a CDC Certified Divorce Coach ® and Women’s empowerment coach with over 25 years of experience. Her passion lies in supporting women through every aspect of separation and divorce. She offers a comprehensive coaching experience that goes beyond just empowerment work to help clients develop their communication, conflict management, boundary setting, and negotiation skills. Beverly also provides expertise on the technical, legal, and financial aspects of the divorce process.

CONTACT YOUR HOST:

Website: http://www.herempowereddivorce.com/

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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/herempowereddivorce/

Facebook Personal: https://www.facebook.com/beverlyprice365

Facebook Group: Women’s Divorce and Empowerment Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/divorcerecovery

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YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@herempowereddivorce/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beverly-price/

Email: beverly@herempowereddivorce.com

CHECK OUT MY FREE EBOOK:12 Steps to Empowerment https://herempowereddivorce.com/12-steps-to-empowerment-1 

A Warm Shoutout To Our Amazing Sponsor:

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Hi, beautiful. I'm so glad you're here with me today. And I'm just so excited because my guest today is Sharon Mosley and she's a mental health therapist. And boy, do I have lots of questions for her. She's a licensed clinical mental health counselor supervisor and she has over 20 years of experience. So she certainly has enough experience to talk with us today.

She's currently licensed to practice in North Carolina and Arizona, and she's the owner of the fit talk where she offers counseling and health coaching services to individuals and groups. She has experience providing individual family and group therapy for those struggling with a variety of mental health issues, including the, the terrible

anxiety and depression and that happens so often in divorce. And she also holds a health coach certification and she is committed to healthier living and believes that one of the best ways to approach it is to walk and talk your therapy. So I'm so excited to have her today. Hi Sharon, thank you so much for joining me. It's so good to have you.

Bye Beverly, thank you for having me.

Oh, this is, this is really exciting. And to give the listeners a little background is that in my coaching, so many of my clients, when we're working through the emotions of divorce, what I find is that those emotions may be tied to something that's happening right now, but they frequently are also tied to something in their path.

and experience in their childhood or something in their past. And when I try and contrast what a therapist does and what a divorce coach does, I see the therapist as working with issues in the past and very specifically focused traumas, domestic violence, childhood issues.

those kinds of things and a divorce coach is really future focused and kind of goal setting approach. So that's why I wanted so badly to have Sharon come today because of this commonality where these emotions seem to come up from nowhere. So, um, so Sharon, can you, um, can you just elaborate a little bit on this concept of

What is meant when you say that our past can resurface during divorce?

Absolutely. Beverly, I think you raised some really, really valid points with that. That oftentimes what's happening is when we experience something as, you know, dramatic and traumatizing as experiencing a divorce is that there are some issues that for some of us, we may feel as though that they had been dealt with or resolved. But as it turns out, when you experience a divorce, you realize they haven't.

and they resurface again, you could say that there is a trigger. And so those could be those emotions that you start feeling, or those could be those stated or implied things that occur in terms of you may start to feel a little helpless or worthless or dismissed, or you may also feel as though there isn't any point to any of this.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

my life doesn't have much meaning without this person because what happens is sometimes early on in life we have been told those things or they have been implied. And so again, for some people it may have felt as though those issues had been resolved or they may not have been resolved and then they resurfaced during something like a divorce.

Absolutely. And I found that in my particular case, some of my past issues were low self-worth, low self-esteem, that the only way I was good was by getting attention. And so those things also drove me to the very person I married that then I divorced from, that if I had really stepped back had I done the healing work.

And had I been able to look at logically what I wanted in that ideal person, I probably shouldn't have even married him in the first place. So I really struggle with that. And that's another reason this topic is so important to me. Um, and I think you really hit the nail on the head because so many women that, in particular, those that have been married a good while,

kind of have this identity of wife, right? And that's who they are. And when divorce comes, that label goes away. And so what happens to them?

Yes.

When they find themselves in a situation like that and they no longer have that identity Well before they even reach the point of actual divorce when they feel like that's where things are headed sometimes It can trigger these anxious thoughts Well, what will I do and what also when you have someone that is in your home that is saying to you? You're not going to make it without me

What will you do without me? You can't do anything without me. And so when you have to have that on repeat, then it really, you start to buy into it and you start to believe it. And you start to think, well, he's right. What will I do? I can't do anything. Maybe I need to stay. And you start to second guess yourself. And so, because this is the one title that you're very comfortable with and that is that of being a wife.

Yep.

And that's something that you feel that you know. And so it does leave a really, it can leave a really big gap. And so then you have to think about, and I think this is really where you come in Beverly, is to start thinking about the future. Well, what does my future look like? You know, what kind of future and life can I have after the divorce? And we know that you can. You can be very prosperous and have a fulfilling life after a divorce. But those are the questions that come up. And I think sometimes as a therapist,

right.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

you know, we have to deal with what is that question is rooted in, because often that question is rooted in something from childhood or some earlier experiences. And what happens with this partner is that they just come along and reinforce whatever that is on the surface. It appears when you first probably meet in early on in the marriage that this person will compliment you and take you away from all of that. But what you start to find out later,

Yeah.

is the thing that leads to divorce sometimes is that actually what they're doing is reinforcing that very thing that you were trying to get away from.

Exactly. Oh, so, so true. So, so true. Um, I'm thinking of many women that I talked to seem to be dealing with a lot of emotional and verbal abuse. Just like you said, people putting them down. One client I had today told me that after she told her husband that she wanted to divorce, he told her nobody would want her.

She wasn't good enough. She would be a single mother with two kids and nobody's gonna want that. Tell me a little bit about how that triggers things.

Because again, oftentimes that's something that they've heard earlier in life is that, you know, look at you. Who would want you? What are you going to do? Or also it could have been something that was modeled for them in a relationship that they saw. So oftentimes the very first relationships that we experience is that of our parents.

Whether that is a healthy or unhealthy relationship, it's our very first experience with what relationships look like. So if you are the product of an unhealthy relationship, or you saw one of your parents involved in an unhealthy relationship, we start to get the idea that this is what it looks like. So that oftentimes can be where it stems from, and when we hear that in our own relationships, again, we can buy into that, that thought.

And we start to go back to that time and think about what that relationship was like for those people and maybe they decided to stay for a length of time. And so we may think that well then we have to just stay and just stick it out or maybe that's what we were actually told. Well, once you get married, you just stick it out. You do it for the good of the kids or you do it because you need a home and financial stability. And so we sometimes buy into that.

Right, I think that is so, so true. So many people say that even though they're miserable, they're not gonna get a divorce because they're staying together for the kids. But I don't think they're thinking about what messages they are sending to the kids if that home is miserable.

Yeah.

So that sometimes it isn't in the kid's best interest to stay in that family unit intact.

That's a very good point because kids are really perceptive, right? Like they understand whether you tell them or not, they clearly see what's happening in the environment around them. They understand more than what we give them credit for, what's happening in your relationship. And so that does weigh on them and also it has an impact. Even when you mentioned earlier Beverly about having the low self-esteem, right? And low self-worth. Well...

Yeah.

Oftentimes, the other argument is that, well, you know, this marriage will provide me financial stability. And so I don't have the skill set to do these things without my spouse. So we don't give ourselves enough credit for all the things that we can do and the skills that we do have and what we actually bring to the table. And also, we discount when we walk away or step away from this marriage what, and this will go into the legal side of things.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

that we can get other supports and resources in terms of attorneys to help find out what exactly will I be entitled to? So I think that, again, we don't give ourselves enough credit.

Right.

Yeah, I think there's a perfect example that I see a lot and that revolves around finances. And it's women that feel like they don't understand math or numbers or finances so they turn everything over to their husband. And in doing that kind of reinforces that they don't know they maybe they were taught when they were younger girls aren't good at math and boys are or something. And what sometimes results from that

Mm-hmm.

is financial abuse where the person that had complete control did things that the spouse was totally unaware of because they gave him total control. Yeah, I think that's certainly it. Have a quick question for you that I'm just curious about and it doesn't really have to do with past issues, but I see all of these initials. LCSW. And I hear...

Yeah, absolutely.

MSW and I hear licensed psychotherapist and all these names. If I need to work on deep past issues, let's say self-worth, self-esteem, who should I turn to and what who are these different people?

Very good question, right? Because that's like an alphabet soup and it can be confusing. Okay, so when it comes to my credentials, I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor. That can be used interchangeably with someone who is a licensed professional counselor, someone who is a licensed clinical counselor. So we have all had basically the same training.

It really is, yeah.

but we may hail from different states. And based on their state board, they may have a slightly different name, but we have probably had basically the exact same curriculum. So that comes down to just kind of semantics. So then you also have MSWs. Those are with a master's degree. And by the way, we all have to have at least a master's degree in order to be licensed. And so then you have...

a MSW, which is a Masters in Social Work, but if it doesn't have the L on it, then they're not licensed to practice as a therapist. They are still social workers, but they're not practicing as licensed therapists. So if they have the L on it, they can do that. And they will be doing basically the same things as the other affibets that I just mentioned. Then you also have the psychologist.

Okay.

psychologists again, they will do the same things as the other afferents. Now what the difference is with a psychologist, someone that is a clinical psychologist, not only are they doing therapy, and psychotherapy and therapy are used interchangeably, but a licensed psychologist may also do testing. So if you have a need for testing for, let's say,

for learning disabilities or for autism or something like that, then we may refer you to the psychologist just for the testing portion, but they could also do therapy also. So a licensed social worker, their curriculum is really steeped in family systems, and so when they were originally founded, it was around the idea of sort of like case management, case work.

Roger.

and connecting systems. And so that's something that they do really well, but they can also do therapy. As it relates to licensed professional counselors, licensed clinical counselors, and licensed clinical mental health counselors, then our curriculum is based on theories of counseling and theoretical approaches. So again, we can all do the therapy, but those may be the slight differences.

Okay.

Gotcha. So, and licensed also means that they are attached to a state. Like you said, you're attached to practice in North Carolina and Arizona. So that's what your licenses are. Okay. Got you.

Yes. Yes, and we do not practice across state lines unless you are a psychologist that is a part of the psych pack, which you can practice across certain state lines, but you have to be a part of that. Now, my credential, we are in the process of having a compact that will start at the beginning of 2024.

we will be able to practice across state lines with other states that are part of the compact if we apply to be a part of the compact as individuals. So, and that's because there's such a shortage in the US with therapists across the board. So that's what's happening. As far as medication is concerned, you will need then to see an MD, which would be your...

your practitioner, your general practitioner, or a psychiatrist. They specialize in mental health, but they can also prescribe.

Gotcha. Fascinating. What do you say to someone that let's say has been in therapy for a number of years and they go, gosh, I dealt with all that back then. I dealt with my mother. I dealt with those messages and all of a sudden it's coming up out of nowhere. Why is that? What do you say to that person?

Okay, I will say it's just like when you...

first learn how to acquire the skill, you learn how to, I don't know, let's say you learn how to swim when you were younger. And then you spent, I don't know, 20, 30 years out of the pool and you get back in and you started thinking, oh, I can still swim, but I've lost some of my skills set here. So maybe I need a refresher because, you know, I need to

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

get back to this again. So it's the same thing. You can deal with something early on in life, but what has happened is over time you change and when you change then you may need to deal with that again or it may rear its head again because things have changed. And that's okay because whatever your needs were and whatever your abilities were when you were a pre-teen would be different than your needs and abilities.

Gotcha.

when you are an older adult, or even when you are someone in your 20s. So that's okay, because you are at a different phase of life now. And so you have to address different needs.

Yeah.

right.

Absolutely. I'd like to think of it too as almost like peeling layers of an onion. That there's certain issues that go very deep that my mind and my spirit are only capable of handling so much at this moment. And it feels like I've resolved it, but then a little bit of time goes by and all of a sudden it's coming up again deeper and deeper.

Yes.

Yes.

And I can absolutely totally understand that. We've talked about some of the messages that were sent, that were growing up that might affect us in marriage and divorce. Can you share any others that come to mind? Any past messages? I like to call them old tapes that are playing.

that you can think of. I know one that used to come up to me a lot was, I'm a failure. That one would come up a lot.

Yes, I think that will certainly resonate because those are some of the old tapes that do tend to come back again. You know that I'm a failure, that I really don't matter, you know that you know my life has a little meaning, that it's my fault, that's a big one. You know somehow this is my fault because if it was not for you, if it weren't for you...

Right.

Oh yeah.

then we could have done X, Y, and Z. And so the guilt of something that really isn't your fault can come back, something that probably it was not stated that it was your fault, but maybe you interpret this as being your fault. Something occurred with another family member and you carry that guilt around forever that somehow this is my fault. And so then...

Thank you.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

when this occurs, because also too, oftentimes the very person that we are divorcing at some point was the very person that we shared all or most of our intimate thoughts with. And that may know us better than just about anyone. And so when we get to that place where we may no longer be friends, this person may know all of the buttons to push.

and they may start to bring those things back up again because they know that you are sensitive to these issues, that it can leave you in a vulnerable place. And so then again, this is how we are being emotionally attacked oftentimes during that process. It may not be physical, it may, you know, it may on the surface seem benign, but this is what's happening because they know some of these things that nobody else knows about us.

Absolutely.

And so that happens.

One of the questions that I hear a lot of women say is, why is he doing this to me?

Any insight on that at all?

Well, that's a big statement, right? So why is he doing this to me? Well, okay. You talk about peeling back the layers. So one side of that is, certainly it may feel like a personal attack, and sometimes it very well may be a personal attack. Other times, this is, or has very little to do with you than it does the other person. This is about something.

Yeah.

that for themselves that they have not resolved or dealt with. And this is the way that they believe that they keep and gain their own power and control. And so then you become the target because you're in close proximity.

Right.

Gotcha. Yeah, I have this, yeah, I have this saying that in those cases, now true, there are some personal attacks, but I have this saying, he's not doing it to me, he's doing it for himself. Because I think, you know, in a lot of cases, the reason people attack is to bring that person down to your own level, you know? Yeah.

So it.

Mm-hmm. Oh, yes.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah.

What are some other reasons people attack?

another.

Another reason that people attack, I think again it kind of goes back often times to their own insecurities. If I'm not secure in who I am, then this is a way to also bring you back to my level. And then this is also again for maybe some pain that I have felt that I feel that I need to inflict upon someone else because someone else needs to know or even pay for the pain that I felt.

Yeah.

for things that have happened in my life well before you were a part of it.

Gotcha, gotcha. I knew a woman who was married and then divorced, and she had been divorced from her husband for eight years. And she was the most bitter and angry woman I had ever met in my life. She used her child in the divorce, she was nasty, name calling, all kinds of things. And eight years after,

their divorce, she said to him that he hadn't suffered enough. Two years later, she died of cancer and I know you're really into the whole mind, body, fitness, health kind of perspective. What are your thoughts on that kind of situation?

I think it's unfortunate, but it's, you know, of course not personally knowing her medical history, anything like that, but it could be a prime example of how what's happening in terms of you emotionally, how it can have a physical impact, you know. And we talk about this correlation between mental health and physical health, but it's real. And if you let some things fester and not heal from them...

It just shows you how they can, literally in this case, it can spread like a cancer. It can really impact you in other areas of your life in a physical way, you know, and not just in terms of cancer, but you know, in heart attacks, in strokes, you know, in chronic pain, it can really manifest.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

It really can. I heard a statistic that 27% or women who were divorced have a 27% higher chance of developing breast cancer or uterine cancer or ovarian cancer than a woman who's not divorced. That to me is very tragic, very tragic. When a woman is the victim of verbal abuse, mental abuse,

Hmm. Yes, that really is. Yes.

those kinds of things, I think it really harms her ability to manage her divorce if you will. What advice do you have for the woman that's heard for years and years all of this negativity kind of coming at her?

You know, I like to just at first acknowledge that it takes a lot of courage to even show up to say out loud that this is what's happening, that this is what you've endured. And I try to reassure my clients that whatever you feel is real, if you feel this, this is real. You are entitled to all of your feelings.

Mm-hmm.

There isn't anyone that can tell you how to feel and what to feel. And also know that this is not your fault. This is not your fault and you are not on an island. Because so many times I hear women say that, I thought it was just me. I thought I was by myself. And I assure them you are not on an island. You are not alone. And I know that you are not alone because you're talking to me right now. So that says that.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right.

Even if there isn't anybody else in your corner, you have one person in your corner because the fact that you and I are talking is validation of that.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. How do you think all these messages affect a woman's ability to make decisions during her divorce?

all of the negative messages. Oh, it's really overwhelming. Yeah, because we start to buy into those messages. It can become really overwhelming and almost paralyzing because you start to question everything.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. So once, go ahead, I'm sorry, go ahead. I was just gonna say, once you kind of discover that what you're feeling has roots in your past, what should you do?

And so, can I go now?

If you were feeling that way, I think that that's a good idea when you, Beverly, asked earlier. So, you know, what are all of these affinities? What does it stand for? I think that if you can reach out to one of these people with any of these affinities behind their names, or a good friend, or a good divorce coach, or an attorney, but reach out to someone that you feel that you can trust. That starts you on the right path.

Good, good, talk about it, get it out in the open.

get to that one person and then from there, they can say to you, okay, this I think is a great place to start. And then also after you process some of this, they can direct you to the next person, right? Like that may be you, that may be the attorney, or they may start with the attorney first or you first, but I think if they can get to any of us, then we can help give that support.

and give them guidance to the next step.

Yeah, I think that just is another strong plus for a divorce team to bring in just the people that you need to help you with your situation. Yeah. One of the things I'd love to ask my guests every single time is to come up with three actionable tips that can help a woman. And since we're talking about past issues resurfacing and affecting their divorce, what

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

three tips be.

Okay, I think that one of the things as we just mentioned is that they reach out to think about that one person that is supportive and reach out to that one person that is supportive. I think the other piece of that is if they for themselves can start some kind of planning. Now whether that planning is something that's written down.

Right.

or something that they're just starting to think about, but be thinking about a plan. That's really important. The third thing.

And what's the plan for? What's the plan for?

I think to think about the plan for what's next. What's next for you because if you are at the place where you're feeling like there's a lot happening and you're considering this, think about for yourself, well, what do I wanna do? Like, am I considering moving forward with a divorce? Okay, so I probably need to have some sort of resources because I may have to get an attorney involved.

Okay.

a divorce coach or a therapist, that's going to require something. I may have to, you know, if I have adult kids or even younger, I may have to notify my kids. I may have to notify my aging parents, you know, like I need some sort of plan. Now when they get to the next person, they will help them more or less solidify that, but I think going in already with somewhat of a plan will give them a sort of a foundation. And I think the third thing to do is, if they can...

Take a deep breath. Stop for a moment, take a deep breath and breathe. Because in the time that it takes to do the deep breathing, it also allows you to reset and to really be able to focus on making contact with someone and starting this plan.

Yes.

Wow, such good, good points. So Sharon, how can my audience and our listeners find you when they want more information?

I am listed just about everywhere as TheFitTalk. So you can find me on Facebook, you can find me on Instagram, you can find me on Twitter, you can find me on LinkedIn as Sharon Mosley, M-O-S-L-E-Y. You can also visit my website, thefittalk.com, and you can give me a call.

sounds.

Thank you so much for being my guest today, Sharon. I thoroughly enjoyed it and learned a lot.

Thank you so much for having me.

All of Sharon's information, her phone number and her links will be available in the show notes along with mine. You can find them at herempoweredivorce.com on the podcast page or Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also see our video version on our YouTube channel, Her Empowered Divorce. Thank you for being with Sharon and myself on this episode of Her Empowered Divorce.

And join me next time where we'll be diving deeper into what another expert professional shares that can help you on your separation and divorce journey. Remember, most of all, you don't have to go this alone. We're here to help. Thank you for joining me and take care.