For more details please visit the website.

Heather Hester shares her profound journey as a mother navigating the complexities of raising an LGBTQ+ teen after her son Connor came out as gay at 16. Initially blindsided, Heather and her husband quickly realized they were underprepared to support their son during this pivotal time. Through her experiences, she emphasizes the importance of embracing, educating, empowering, and loving LGBTQ+ youth, highlighting that unconditional love requires understanding and unlearning biases. Heather also discusses the societal pressures and fears that many parents face, which can hinder their ability to fully support their children. This conversation serves as a valuable resource for parents, offering insights into fostering compassion and understanding within families while encouraging broader societal change.

Heather is the author of the book Partenting with Pride: Unlearn Bias and Embrace, Empower, and Love You LGBTQ+ Teen.

Through her personal narrative and professional insights, Heather Hester provides a roadmap for parents navigating the complexities of raising LGBTQ children. Central to her message are the four pillars of support she outlines: embrace, educate, empower, and love. These pillars serve as a framework for parents to understand their role in their child's life and to foster an environment of acceptance and support. Heather discusses the challenges parents face in confronting their biases and the emotional labor involved in this process. She emphasizes that unconditional love is not just a statement but a practice that requires ongoing effort and understanding. The conversation culminates in a call to action for parents to recognize their children's need for visibility and affirmation, urging them to create safe spaces where their children can thrive. This heartfelt discussion is not only a testament to Heather's personal growth but also a valuable resource for families seeking guidance and connection in the LGBTQ community.

My guest today, Heather Hester's journey began when her oldest son, Connor, came out at gay at the age of 16. Heather, with her husband, who has four children, recalls being completely blindsided. And by being blindsided, it wasn't about being angry or upset.

Instead, it was the shock and realization that they had no idea how to navigate this new path. So as parents, she and her husband suddenly faced a multitude of questions. How do they support their son Connor?

And how do they parent a gay teenager? In this episode of Empower Her Wellness, my conversation with Heather answers these questions and more.

Heather is a passionate advocate and guide for parents of LGBTQ teens.

Heather is also the host of the podcast Just Breathe Parenting youg LGBTQ Teen, and author of the book Parenting with Pride, Unlearn Bias and Embrace Empower and Love your LGBTQ plus teen. Her story and work is going to provide valuable insights into supporting this population of children and fostering our understanding and compassion.

Okay, friends, on to my conversation with Heather. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast Empower Her Wellness. I have with me Heather Hester today, and I'm so excited to talk with you, Heather.

So thanks so much for joining me today.

Thank you so much for having me. It is such a delight to be with you and to chat with you about one of my very favorite topics in the whole world.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

So, Heather, you're also a podcast host.

You have a podcast, Just Breathe Parenting youg LGBTQ Teen, and you're also author of the book Parenting with Pride, Unlearn Bias and Embrace Empower and love your LGBTQ teenage. Did I get those right?

You did, yes.

Awesome. And for all my listeners, we'll put all those links down below in the show notes so they can reference that.

But, Heather, I would just love for you to start with your story, how you got into this line of work with parents of LGBTQ plus teens.

Absolutely. Yeah. So it started way back about eight or nine years ago when my oldest son. I have four kids, but my oldest son, when he was.

Was 16 when he came out as gay. And we. My husband and I were. Did not see it coming. We were completely blindsided and blindsided. And the.

I always have to say it wasn't that we were upset or angry. It was that we were. We were shocked. We didn't. We had no idea. And then we were like, oh, well, what do we do? How do we do this? Right?

How do you parent a kid who, you know, a teenage kid who's gay? And.

And so there were a lot of Things that kind of initially came up in the first six, eight 12 months after Connor came out that really made it so obvious to us how underprepared we were and how little we knew about how to, you know, support a kid who isn't like your, you know, quote unquote, normal, typically developing kid. Right? And he struggled with a ton of mental health struggles. He had substance use issues. There were.

I mean, the number of things that just kind of kept piling up, that we kept learning about in those first couple months were just more than we could keep up with. Like, we would learn about something, and then we'd be like, okay, yes, we've got that, and then something else would pop up.

But I'm sure parents, you know, all over can. Can identify with that, because that's not specific to having an LGBTQ kid.

But anyway, about 18 months into our journey with Connor, and once we were in a place where he was doing much better and kind of beginning this path of just really discovering who he was, appreciating who he was, not hating who he was, I kind of could take a breath, and at that point, I was like, this is insane that it was this difficult for us to find support, to find, you know, people to talk to, and we live in a, you know, relatively progressive area. But we realized when he came out that it really wasn't as progressive as we thought it was, and we, you know, we had no idea where to even reach out.

And I will say that, you know, there are many national organizations that are phenomenal, and those were super helpful, but what we needed was, like, a place that.

That had, you know, that had parents that had, you know, people who were educated on this topic who could really give us very specific direction or resources or information. And that's what we really had a hard time finding. So that's why I decided to create it myself.

And so this really started out in a very organic, Like, I just want. I don't want other parents to go through what we did. It was so hard. It was so frightening.

We had three younger siblings who we were parenting and raising at the same time, and it was just. The whole thing was just really, really difficult. And so I first created Chrysalis Mama, um, which is just a resource website, essentially.

I mean, now it houses all the things that I do, but when I started it, it was just, here's all of the great resources that I found, and let me start getting this out into the world. And then five years ago this month, I started the podcast Just Breathe and.

And Again, that I've started it as a way to reach more people, to get this information that I had learned about that I had found, and to just let people, parents and people who know and love LGBTQ people know that they're not alone, that there are others who are on this journey. Because I've also found that oftentimes people don't want to talk about it. People are very afraid to talk about it.

They're not sure who they can talk to about having a kid who's gay or a kid who's trans or a kid who's non binary and, And. And often don't have, you know, the under, you know, language to be able to describe. So that is how the podcast came to be.

And then I was, you know, fortunate enough to meet somebody who then introduced me to my publisher, who helped me publish this book in this, the spring. And, yeah, and I've just kind of added coaching in as people. Everything has just happened in this very organic, lovely way.

And it took me actually a couple of years to be like, oh, I could do this, like, as a job. Like, it was very much like, well, this is a really great, like, passion project. Like, it was so.

And I still feel so passionately about it that I'm like, well, this is great. Like, I really love what I do, but I also, you know, a lot of the time I'm kind of on fire about it, so it is. It's a little stressful.

Well, we need. We need people on fire about this topic, so it's what I think. Well, thank you for sharing that story.

So I'm curious, how does Connor feel about you sharing his story to the world?

I love. I love that question. Because he, He. He's so supportive. He's been actually a guest on the podcast.

Oh, fun.

Yeah. Multiple times. And I would not do any of this.

In fact, I, If I start, you know, if I kind of go into a new topic or if I'm, you know, really digging into language and trying to understand things, I always go to him and, and his other, you know, his other siblings, because they're all, you know, they're young.

Yeah.

You know, they know things. They know things. Exactly. But he's really good. I mean, he's been wonderful about sharing his story. And he's come on.

Actually, he's come on to my podcast and in the book and shared very openly and honestly from his perspective, which has been super helpful too, because, of course, it's a completely different perspective than what the parent perspective is. So.

Well, I asked that question, I was super curious because I know how kids are. They always like, oh, mom.

He'S been really, really great. And I think, too, because, you know, I came from a background that was very conservative, both with religion and politics.

And over the years, like, I thought I had kind of gotten to a point where I'm like, you know, I'd really done some shifting as a. Just an adult and then as a parent. And when he came out, I realized, oh, my gosh, like, I don't know anything, so.

And I think for them, too, like, kind of understanding how all of that works, like, having me, like, really put work into learning everything I could learn and doing a ton of my own personal work, you know, they've been just so awesome and supportive and happy that I'm doing this, so it's cute. Their friends are really sweet about it, and. Yeah, it's. It's very nice.

Oh, that's good. That's good to hear. So I do have a question. I don't know how comfortable you would be with sharing this, but. So you said Connor didn't like himself.

He has some substance abuse issues. Where. What. What did that stem from? Why did he have those feelings?

You mean, why did he not like himself? Yeah. In all the talking and the therapy and everything that he's done that we've done, it really stemmed from the messaging that our kids receive.

There was just this overall, and hit by it all the time, every single day in a million different ways, telling them that being LGBTQ plus, wherever you fall in, that is bad, it's wrong, it's gross. It's, you know, fill in the blank with an adjective. Right. And it doesn't matter.

I mean, it's great to have parents who are supportive and loving, but there's still, like, there's so much that you're fighting against.

And so the more we realized, like, where it was coming from, because, of course, that was our first thought was like, but we love you and we support you, and how can you, like, think you're bad?

Right?

And I think so many parents feel that way because they're like, but I'm doing everything I can to support you, and you're amazing, and you're wonderful, and this is beautiful, and, you know, what? All the things. And yes, that is extraordinarily important. And they're still getting all this stuff.

Yeah.

So that is where it stemmed from. And. And of course, now, thankfully, he's, you know, he has done enough work, and he has grown a ton. And, you know, it's all part of this process.

But he is to a point where, you know. Yes. Does it still bother him? Of course. Like, you know, as it would any. We're human. He's human.

But I think, you know, just having matured and having his people. Right. And he lives in New York City. He has his people.

He has, you know, others who have been through parallel, you know, coming out processes and all that.

So, yeah, I kind of figured that was the answer. I just was, you know, curious because I know that, you know, it's. It's. It's a struggle for.

For teens and stuff, regardless, I mean, where they are in life. They've got all this peer pressure and all these messages that they see.

I will say, as you were talking, I was thinking about how I am glad to see more commercials and TV shows with, you know, like, gay couples and things like that. So I'm really happy to see those things and I'm hoping that. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I'll make a comment once in a while.

I'll be like, well, I'm sure that commercial pissed some people off, but I love it. So.

Oh, my gosh. I literally.

I do that all the time.

All the time. And I will say. Okay, so I don't know if you've seen, and I have not watched it yet, but it's the new documentary with Will and Harper.

No, but my partner Steve has watched it.

Okay. I cannot wait to watch it. I just need to set aside some time to watch that. But I. When I saw.

When I first saw that coming out, I thought the exact same thing. I was like, that is really going to make some people mad. And bravo. Like, so well done. Like, it made me just love him even more, you know? Yeah.

But yes, it's funny. I was just doing this talk a couple weeks ago, and this was like a big piece of.

What I talked about was the importance of representation and importance of not just our kids, but LGBTQ plus people in general being able to look around and see themselves in media, in, you know, in books, in movies, in advertisements. Right. I mean, it's for someone who, you know, who is cisgender, that you don't even think about it. Right. Because we're.

I'm represented everywhere all the time, so it doesn't even phase me. But when you think about, holy cow, like, the difference that makes and especially for kids who are like, oh, my gosh, that person looks like me.

Like, that's. That's me. Right? Like, how huge that is. It's amazing. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. That. That's really important for. For kids. I agree. And we're going to talk about the broader implications of all that further on in the episode.

But I do want to talk about your. You support parents through this journey, and I was really curious about the four pillars that you have. Embrace, educate, empower, and love.

Is that sort of like a process you move your parents through or just explain a little bit about how that. How that helps. Helps your parents?

Absolutely. Yeah. I, you know, it's funny, when I.

I was kind of early on, like, looking for something that would, like, represent kind of what we went through, like, and so I took a lot of time kind of really analyzing, like, our process.

And then as I began to just talk to people before I even started working with parents, like, learning, you know, about their processes and how, you know, what they. Because everybody's so different, right?

It's not like there's this cookie cutter, like, first you do this, and then you do this, and everybody looks the same. Like, everybody's story is so vastly different. So I knew that I needed to have. I wanted to have something that would really.

That people could kind of embrace but would really feel like a part of, right? That they could see themselves in each of these steps and be like, oh, I connect to this specific thing. So, you know, I. They. They kind of came.

They came to me really, in a short period of time, but it, like, made sense over a longer period, if that. If that makes sense.

Yeah, I got you.

Okay, thank you. So I will say that, you know, the kind of. The way that I always envision it is that you. So you have to do one before you get to the next, right?

So in order to really fully educate. Right? To. And I'll even take a step back from that and say, like, go into the title of my book, which is Unlearned Bias.

So it's that whole piece of we all have biases, every single one of us. That is not a judgmental statement. It is a factual. We all have them based on a million different reasons, right?

But before we can even take a look at our biases, right? We have to embrace what's. What we have coming to us, right? We have to say, okay, my kid has come out to me, as, in our case, gay. What does that mean?

Right? Like, I. And. And how am I going to approach this?

Right?

Okay, I love this kid. I want to support this kid. I see this situation. I acknowledge that this is. Whatever that means to you, right?

That word embrace, like, it can really cover a lot of things. So you have to have that first before you can step into.

Okay, now, now I need to face up to like, what are the things that are feeling sticky or uncomfortable, right? Like, what do I need to like, really take a look at and be like, why do I, why do I think that? What, where does that come from?

And how do I let go of that? Right? And then what do I need to learn? Like, what are the things that I need to learn about? So that's kind of a two step process there.

And then you can't begin to empower yourself, right. Or empower others until you've done this whole kind of exercise or this, you know, experienced the unlearning and the relearning.

And then that in and of itself empowers you. Right? And then it allows you the opportunity to empower, whether it's your child or other people in your life, right?

Encourage them to unlearn and relearn.

And then I kind of, you know, love, even though it's the last one, I always picture it in my mind as being kind of like this surrounding bubble, right? Like the other three are inside of it. But I don't.

And this might be a little sticky of a con comment or controversial of a comment, but I do not think that you can unconditionally love without understanding all of those pieces. I think that people use that word, that's that phrase, oh, but I do love you unconditionally. I, I just don't. Right.

Or, but, or you know, all the things that just. People don't even hear what they're saying and they don't understand the implications of that. But it's so huge.

And so I kind of have it, I have it at the end because you need to understand the other three pieces. But I always, in my mind, it's like the all encompassing, like, big hug.

I think that's a great. I don't think that was too sticky at all. I think that was a great, great way to say that. Because I so agree. Unconditional is unconditional, right?

So, yeah, so you're talking about unlearning biases and stuff. And so how difficult is that for parents?

Because I know that whether it's, you know, your religion or your family of origin or, you know, just maybe your culture or something, that's got to be extremely difficult for parents. And this really goes to the next question, so I'm just going to ask the next question. You can like wrap this all up into that.

But so what are the struggles that the parents of LGBTQ plus teens, what are. What struggles do they. Do they face, whether it's internally or externally? What are you. What are you seeing there?

Sure. Well, I think. I think you teed that up very, very well because it does stem exactly from whatever their particular biases might be.

And I think that kind of the initial struggle with that is not recognizing that you have biases. Right. It's just because it's something that is so subtle.

It's something that you typically were raised with or just it was in your environment as you were growing up or as, you know, into adulthood, whatever it might be. So it's something that people have a really hard time seeing at first.

So it can be anything from, you know, religious beliefs, which, you know, encompass a number of things there. It can be your political beliefs. Right. It can be. I mean, those are the big two. But it can also be just kind of culturally what is acceptable. Right.

If you are depending what you're culture, is it so many different things? But I. I kind of want to go back because I feel like I need to say a little bit more that kind of. Oh, absolutely, yeah, I skimmed over that. But I.

I feel like understanding, like that step. So, yes, we all understand it can come from a million different things.

And you can all, I'm sure, as people are listening are like, oh, yeah, it could be this, this, or this. So.

But being able, like that step right there, to be able to stop and think, like, I can go back right now in the moment that Connor told me, and he told me on the phone, he had run away. I was 2,000 miles away. I mean, this poor baby. I literally, like, it still breaks my heart, but he.

When I finally got in touch with him and he, you know, he tells me on the phone and. And I literally, I still, like. And I will never forget this moment for the rest of my life.

In that moment being, of course, I was terrified because he had been missing for two hours and I was 2,000 miles away. And my reaction was, thank God, I thought you were dead. And in my mind, I thought, there's no way this kid is going to hell. There's no way.

And I, like, I remember it's so weird, like, when I think back to it and I've, like, written about it a lot, and I think that's probably why it still sticks with me too.

But I remember, like, it was such a defining moment for me to be like, okay, I've got to examine all of this, because this is what I was taught and there's no way that can be true. No way. I just knew in my, like, gut and in my soul that that was wrong. And so, you know, not everybody has that kind of, like.

But, you know, not everybody's kid comes out so dramatically either.

Exactly.

So. But that was, like, a. Such a helpful piece for me, because what it did was, like, pull that first string, right?

So once I started pulling on that and, like, pulling things apart, then, you know, as you. As they do, like, more kind of bubbles up, and you're like, oh, well, let me examine this then. So I think that's really where parents.

That's what's most difficult for them is their stuff. Right. It's not that they don't love their kid. It's not that they don't want to support them. In most cases, it is.

They struggle so much with their own stuff. And so having. And it's hard to, like, face our stuff and be like, oh, well, that kind of sucks that I feel that way.

And I've always thought that, and I've behaved this way, and I've said this out loud. And so it's hard to be vulnerable. It's hard to just go through all of that, and it's hard to go back to your kid and be like, hey, oh, my gosh.

I'm now realizing in the work that I'm doing that I may have said this, this, and this, or I did say this, this, and this, or I did behave in this way, and I'm so sorry. Gosh, that sucks. And I probably made you feel like crap, and I'm really sorry about that. Right.

That's hard to do because, you know, it just requires a lot of shifting, and we're all capable of doing it. I did it. So many people I've worked with have done it.

Yeah. So it's interesting. You talk about people stuck in their stuff and having to work through that.

Here, where I live, we have a organization, Rare Breed.

It's part of the Kitchen, who work with homeless people, but they have set up a center for teens and runaways, and a lot of them are LGBTQ because they'll. They'll be kicked out of their families. And I think maybe some people are just so stuck in their stuff.

Yeah.

That the first thing they do is, like, you know, get out. I don't want to. Which is. Which is heartbreaking. But you have to understand that it is difficult for people.

Not that I excuse their behavior by any means, but it is really difficult for people to get out of their stuff, regardless of what topic we're talking about, you know, and.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

And I will say to that that I. You know, after all these years of doing this, what I recognize is that that is all steeped in such fear.

And there's so much fear of the what if, Right? So, like, I think about some. Some of my own family members who just can't. Like, they just cannot do it.

And I've recognized over time, like, it is such deeply seated, you know, all of this stuff is so that they can't see past it. Like, they are so afraid that it's just easier for them to, you know, it would be too much for them to, like, pull that apart. Right. I just.

I look at some of the cases, and I think, man, that's it. I mean, a lot of the, you know, the hate and the ugliness comes from fear.

You know, this might be a sticky part of our conversation, too, but I have a hard time understanding the fear because I don't understand the. I just don't understand the fear. Like, what are people afraid of?

Well, I think. Okay, so I. I will just share this very, very honestly. I. When I speak of family members, I speak of my own parents.

So I remember thinking, like, when Connor came out, I was like, well, it's their grandson.

Yeah.

Like, I'm their daughter.

Yeah.

Of course they're gonna, like, be curious, right? Because I think that first step is, like, just be curious. Like, wonderful. I wonder. I would like to know more. Right? Just doing that little bit.

And they were incapable of doing that. And I thought, okay, well, maybe there's. They just need time, right? Because they're both very, very steeped in their religious beliefs and their.

Just their belief system. And I was like, we'll give them time. I will just share. Share gently share, right? As I. As I do all these things that I've been doing over time.

And I finally realized as I've done my own work and I've, like, kind of. As I've separated and pulled back and learned more and more, that the reason why I. I'll back that up.

So much of what I was taught was steeped in fear. So, like, all of our. And this is not for everyone. And I'm not saying this is as a blanket statement.

I'm saying this is very specific to, you know, my experience, my. But I've found other people who connect with this, and that is, I was.

I was controlled by fear as a child, as an adolescent, as a young adult, as a, you know, adult. And very much of the fear of like, going against. Right. So going against what their belief system was.

Going against their religion, going against, you know, their God. And. And I say that in quotes because I don't. I see God very differently than they do. And so the more I was like, oh, that's what that is.

Like, it just became more. And I was like, they're so afraid. Afraid. They're so fearful that if they even allow themselves to see Connor to say, oh, I. This is really beautiful.

How cool is it that he, like, has connected with his authentic self? How beautiful is it that God made him this way? Right. How amazing, you know, to watch this and to know that no human being would ever choose.

Choose to be LGBTQ plus, if you've ever known anybody who's come out, you know, that's not a choice. Right. People don't choose to be persecuted and to go through all of the things that they do. Right. So I. It was such a light bulb moment for me.

And I will tell you, it's only come in, like, the past 18 months where I've been like, oh, okay, that's what that is. But it is. And so then I've been able to be, like.

Be able to see it in others as well and recognize when it comes, like, that's where that's coming from. Is that just fear of whatever their flavor of fear happens to be.

Well, I appreciate your honesty in that because like I said, I probably need to be a little more tolerant of people who maybe don't understand or fearful. Not. Well, tolerant may not be the right word.

Yeah.

But a little more understanding, I guess, is the word I'm trying to think, because I. Like I said, I just. I don't under. I don't understand the fear. So it's really hard for me not to just, like, be, like, fire people.

I. I a thousand percent agree with you. And I will say that, you know, the place that I.

And I am not here 50 of the time, but when I am in a really good headspace, I can say I have compassion.

Yeah.

And I. I don't understand it. I don't think we have to understand, and I don't think we tolerate. Right.

But I think we can have compassion in the sense that, gosh, I feel bad that they're missing out. Like, Right. Like, they're missing out.

Yeah.

And. And. And, gosh, it's sad to, like, I. I have.

I feel for people who live in such fear and who live in such judgment in such, you know, narrow confines of a belief system that they miss out on like, so much joy and knowing so many different human beings, different, you know, just such a diverse collection of humans.

So, so many interesting people in the world to talk to. So many interesting people.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

Well, I appreciate you going through that because I, I, it's making me, like, think a little bit about my own process when I'm feeling like I am okay with things and I think everyone else should be too, and that's just not, you know, the world that, that we live in.

So just taking a step back and thinking about what you said, I really like what you said about just missing out on the joy of things, you know, that kind of breaks my heart for people.

Yeah. Yeah, it really does. I mean, I obviously, I mean, I wish that I didn't know it so up close and personal, but I do.

And that is, that, that is the fact. And so I think that's why I'm like, It really does make me sad and not even. So it's not just like with Connor. Right. I mean, I have two who are out.

So with. But it's all four of my kids because my kids are like a unit. Right. Like we are. The six of us are a unit.

So you're not just missing out one, you're missing out on all because they're all like.

Oh, ain't having that.

That's right.

That's great. That's great. Oh, my gosh, what a great conversation. So thank you. I really appreciate, really appreciate your honesty.

And that's, you know, one of the goals of my podcast is to really talk about, you know, some controversial subjects and just really being honest about, about things. You know, talked about suicide, you know, parents have murdered children.

I mean, you know, just all sorts of topics that I like to, to go into, to help people understand. So I really appreciate you, your honesty in that. So I'm a firm believer that when we change ourselves, we can, like, change the world.

You know, I think there's like this ripple effect that, that can go on. So what are some of the broader implications that you're hoping for that you're seeing?

Because I know you also go into the corporate world and work with corporations on developing policies, or I go in.

And actually right now I've been doing a lot of work on just allyship teaching.

Okay.

Yeah. So teaching allyship. And so for, for my listeners may.

Not know what is, what is being an ally? Allyship. What is that? What does that entail? What does that mean?

Essentially, you know, being a person who supports. Right. Somebody who and typically it's supporting one who is marginalized in some way.

So you could be an ally to any number of marginalized communities. But I speak, obviously specifically to LGBTQ plus people.

But depending on where I am, I do wrap that in there because I think people don't often realize that, like, oh, I can be an ally. They don't realize the ways that they can be an ally, and they don't realize that they already are allies.

So it's a fun thing to go in and teach and to have conversations and to really. And to your question, to your point, is, you know, I feel like every conversation is an opportunity to. Even if it's, like, inspire curiosity. Right.

So somebody goes from being like, no, Right. Or, you know, fearful or whatever it is to being like, huh, I never thought about it that way. Right. Like, that's the greatest thing I could ask for.

But even just like, having somebody be like, oh, I understand better now. And now I can talk to somebody or I can share this or, you know, my neighbor's kid just came out. Oh, my gosh.

I can, you know, give them your book or point them to your podcast or, you know, share all of these organizations that you talk about all the time. Right. Like, it empowers people then to empower others and to.

So it's, you know, my hope is that it's just like this ripple, like this tiny ripple that just continues and continues to touch, you know, one person who touches the next.

Well, it's like we talked about earlier. I think we're already seeing it in, you know, commercials and shows and various things with, you know, gay and lesbian couples.

And I remember when the L Word first came out back in the day.

Oh, my gosh. Right.

I love that show. It was like a little soap opera, all that drama. But, you know, that seemed like so long ago. But it's really.

It's really good to see that, you know, the effects of the work that you're doing and other people are doing is really showing up and on a larger scale.

And I shared, you know, the personal story, which I'm not going to go into on my podcast, but so I, for one, really appreciate, you know, what you're. What you're doing. I really, really do.

And for everyone listening, I'll drop all of your information down in the show notes, Heather, for our audience to take a peek at. But before we wrap up, do you have any other words of wisdom or any words of wisdom you'd like to leave my guest?

Oh, my goodness. I would think. I think that the thing that I often will say and I think it's the most important thing and the easiest thing that we can do.

We do tend to make these things a lot more difficult than they need to be. If your child comes out to you or if you know, you know, whether it's a niece or a nephew or your friend's child, what they need is to be seen.

They don't need, you know, any special paragraph of words that you say to them. They don't need the party. They don't need like all the resources.

They just need to know that you see them and that you love them and that you, you know, for who they are right now. Like not tomorrow, not five years from now, but who they are. All the pieces. And that makes such a huge difference.

Those are beautiful words to end our conversation on. Thank you so much, Heather. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much for having me. This was really fun.