We hear from leaders of the Interscholastic Equestrian Association and the Intercollegiate Horse Show Association to find out what youth from these programs have gone on to become great riders in NRHA.  This show is sponsored by Bluebonnet Feeds to we will also be diving into some equine nutrition advice.

The Right Here is Reining Podcast for August 2025:

• Hosts: Christy Landwehr and Samantha Oldfield
• Thanks to our title sponsor: Bluebonnet Feeds
• Pic Credit: IEA, NRHA, Bluebonnet
• Guest: Roxanne Durant of the IEA
• Guest: Ollie Griffith of the IHSA
• Guest: Dr. Jyme Nichols of Bluebonnet Feeds
• Visit the NRHA

Chapters:

07:18 - Introduction to the Interscholastic Equestrian Association

14:12 - The Journey of the IEA: Building Opportunities for Young Riders

19:41 - The Journey of Competitive Riders

28:29 - The Journey Through IHSA and NRHA

35:54 - The Impact of IHSA on NRHA Success

44:31 - Transition to Equine Nutrition

53:12 - Understanding Horse Nutrition: The Importance of Hay

59:05 - Introduction to Foundational and Functional Nutrition

You are listening to the Horse Radio Network, part of the Equine Network family.

What a beautiful day for horses in the morning.

You are listening to the number one horse podcast in the world.

Here is your entertaining look at the.

Horse world and the people in it.

I'm Samantha Oldfield.

And I'm Kristi Landwehr.

And you are listening to the special monthly National Reigning Horse association episode of Horses in the Morning on the Horse Radio Network for this Thursday, August 14th.

Good morning, Horse World.

It's the second Thursday of the month.

That means it's time to slide in to the National Reigning Horse association episode of Horses in the Morning.

So on today's NRHA episode, you are going to listen to some leaders of the Interscholastic Equestrian association and the Intercollegiate Horse show association to find out what youth from these programs have gone on to become great riders in our reigning world.

This show is sponsored by Bluebonnet feed, so we will also be diving into some equine nutrition advice.

Stay tuned.

Well, Sam, I am so excited about all the things that are going on today around, literally, the world in raining.

Let's talk a little bit about what the Euro arcs are.

What does that stand for and what's going on with those?

Yes.

So we just recently completed the European Affiliate Championships.

And for those who may not be aware of what that event is, it's an event designed to celebrate the highest level of competition in a select category of classes in the European region.

So it's a different category of competition than our, say, Futurity in Derby, which is based off of the horse's age.

At this event, we crown 10 European affiliate champions and we also run a youth team tournament to encourage collaboration and sportsmanship amongst our youth members from all over Europe.

So it's a lot of fun.

This year's event was held in Le Palm, France, and it was hosted by our affiliate there, nrha France.

And they did an incredible job.

It was just an amazing event.

So much fun.

You can definitely catch up on what happened there on our social media.

And then looking forward to next year, that event will actually be moving to Grapham, Netherlands.

They will be in Netherlands coming up later in this month.

Actually quite soon, August 18th through the 23rd, our Oceania affiliate Championships will be happening in Queensland, Australia.

So, same thing like Europe, except it's for the Oceania region and we also.

Have them going on in the North American continent.

Do you want to chat a little bit about those two?

Absolutely.

So, yes, those Events that are happening in the North American continent, they're called the Affiliate Regional Championships and they qualify riders to go to the North American Affiliate Championship, which is the same kind of event as the two I was just talking about, the European affiliates and the Oceania affiliates, except it's designed for the North American region, the Affiliate Regional Championships, because we have high density of members in the U.S. those events will qualify riders to go to the what we call the NAAC's North American affiliate Championship.

And that first one is happening.

They're divided by regions.

That first one is happening in South Central, in Tulsa, Oklahoma on August 23rd through the 31st.

And the only requirement that you're needed beyond being an NRHA member and all of your paperwork in order and normal competition, is to be a member of a North American affiliate.

And then you can go there, you can show, you can try to qualify to come to Oklahoma City.

And I hope you guys that are listening if you're interested in not only showing, but also being a fan and becoming a groupie of some of these riders.

It's pretty amazing.

The horse rider combinations that are at this level of competition.

It's everything from brand new.

I've never rained before, all the way up to boy, I've been doing this a minute and you can see some fan fantastic raining and different ages of people.

And again, I always love chatting about this, Sam.

I love how we have the youth division.

We kind of have, you know, the middle aged division for all the adults and then we have an aged division that I am now entering.

So I love talking about it.

If you are in your 50s with us, you ride in a category called prime time.

If you are in your 60s, and this is of course, the next decade that I'm going to be entering here shortly.

That decade is what we refer to as a master.

And if you are in your 70s and you do raining, you are called a legend.

And I just love that.

I think one day I'm gonna buy a Rainer just so I can be called a legend.

It's pretty.

Well, if you've been raining that long or even if you just start to rain at that age, I mean, you are a legend in my book.

Yes, I completely agree.

I think it's fantastic we have a lady in her 80s who's showing regularly.

I mean, it really is pretty fantastic.

So you can go to nrha.com look up shows and see where all of these are that we just spoke about and go and visit them and be a part of them.

The last thing I want to chat with you about today, Sam, before we jump on to our guests, is there's a little competition happening this Saturday called the Run for a Million.

And it is going to be held in Vegas as it has for the last few years now.

And it was Taylor Sheridan's brainstorm, who of course producer of Yellowstone and many other things and with his bosque ranch.

And also, of course, now he's very much a part of the Four Sixes Ranch.

They produce this where our Rainers are actually competing for a million dollars.

And they have expanded beyond that now.

It is a whole week of competition.

It's actually going on as we speak.

And there is some rain cow involved, there's some cutting involved, there's many, many things.

So if you are in the Vegas area or you want to go to Vegas and enjoy yourself, that is coming up this Saturday and is a pretty fantastic event.

Yes, I definitely agree.

For those folks who haven' to South Pointe, it's a casino in Las Vegas where this event is being held.

It is a casino.

It is a bowling alley, it is a movie theater, it is an entire equine event center.

Stalls, competition arenas, you name it, all under one roof.

And it is so much fun because you can go there as a fan and you can have just go see the competition, then you can even go bowling, then you can go watch a movie, then you can be in the casino.

I mean, it is just, it's a wonderful experience and top level of competition that's happening here.

It's.

For over 23 years, Roxanne Duran has held the reins as the director of what has now become the largest youth equestrian association in the nation, the Interscholastic Equestrian Association.

She founded IEA and has grown and it has grown to approximately 15,000 members on hundreds of equestrian teams across the nation, riding and coaching hunt seat western and dressage disciplines for riders in grades 4th through 12th.

Roxanne lives in Chagrin Falls, Ohio, and has two adult daughters, Hillary and Madison.

Welcome to the show, Roxanne.

Thank you.

Thanks so much.

Happy to be here.

So I'm really excited you're on today.

So I have been on your board now for a while and just rotated off your board and now I'm going to be part of your strategic planning task force.

So just thrilled to be a part of iea.

I have many young writers myself that I have taught through the years that have gone on to be on IEA teams and have gone to your zones and even your Nationals.

So what a great organization.

I love that you're on our show today.

Thank you.

Thanks.

I appreciate the opportunity to talk with y' all and also appreciate all that you've done as a board member of iea.

And, yeah, it sounds like, oh, I'm not going to be on the board anymore.

But now we've piled on a bunch of other stuff that you're going to help us with, so that's all right.

Right.

I love being volun told.

I'm all about being volunteered.

Right.

You're not going to get out of arm's reach, just so you know.

It is fine.

Well, I'll tell you, I am so glad that NRHA had the foresight to, of course, have you as iea, as an alliance partner of ours, because youth is super important in our strategic plan.

We want to raise youth members ourselves and get more people involved in reigning when they're young.

So I want to hear about your journey.

Tell us all about how the horse journey happened for you and about how you started iea.

Okay, will do.

Well, ultimately, I would say the.

The whole IEA started as a chip on my shoulder.

So I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia.

I went to a school that actually had a riding program on campus.

And so after school, we'd walk over and ride the horses.

It was, like, ideal.

And however, even though the school had a riding program as part, you know, connected to the school, we got no credit for being riders or athletes or any of the, you know, awards we won on the weekend or throughout the year or any of that.

So, you know, in assembly in the morning, they would stand up and talk about what the football team did on the weekend, but nobody ever talked about, you know, what the riding group was doing.

It wasn't a team at that point, but, you know, the riders and competitions and everything.

And we didn't even get our picture in the school yearbook.

So I just, it made me mad all along.

I kept writing letters, you know, to the head of school and stuff, and asking at least can we get our picture in the school yearbook?

No.

So, ultimately, the school phased out the riding program.

The rings became soccer fields.

And so, you know, clearly they already had a plan for phasing that out and moving to other things, but the chip on my shoulder remained.

And I always thought, gosh, if I could go back to that school and, you know, show them how this could really be done, that would be my ultimate dream job.

So, fast forward 20ish years later, and I did Get a similar job at a school here in the Cleveland area called the Andrews School.

And they had just built this beautiful facility.

It was an all girls school.

They had built a beautiful facility.

It was a college prep school and they had just fantastic equestrian facility, two indoor rings, like 42 heated stalls and just lovely.

And it was like, wow, we've got this great facility and we're supposed to be college prep.

But our school, our kids coming through that program in middle school and high school were intimidated by the college writing program.

So the collegiate program started the draw based format as, as we all know it and use it now, and it was based on you go to a host facility, basically draw a horse's name out of a hat and that's who you show.

So kids that were not experienced with that at all and there was no program that give them experience in that.

So we said, gosh, if we' trying to be college prep, let's try to prepare students for that experience in college so they're not intimidated.

So they don't stop riding when high school's over, but they continue on into college and get on college teams and keep going.

And if they keep going through college, chances are they're going to keep going when they get out of college too.

So.

So with that idea we did this interscholastic invitational event where we just invited other schools.

We pulled out like Peterson's Guide to Secondary Schools and if it had the word equestrian in it, we invited.

So we basically, you know, anybody that said they had a question program, we invited them, let's come do a draw kind of horse show at a younger rider level.

And it went really well.

That was kind of all we intended to do, but it went really well.

So we did it another year.

So two years in a row we did this interscholastic invitational.

And then, gosh, I can't remember if we did three years of invitational or if the third year was actually ia.

I think we did three years of invitational and ultimately this invitational is what turned into the iea.

Then people took this concept and took it back to their schools and back to their areas and we're like, well, let's make it a thing.

So we from that point grew it into a small membership organization and we put on shows that led to a nationals.

And the first year we did an actual quote nationals, it was still at Andrew school.

And to qualify you had to have at least you had to have shown in one show and gotten one point, which means if you were sixth or better, you, you got into nationals.

So now 25 years later, we have 15,000 members and they have to go to five or six shows within the year just to qualify for regionals.

Then they go from regionals to zones and ultimately maybe to nationals.

So it's gotten a lot harder, gotten a lot bigger and a lot harder to get all the way through to nationals.

But yeah, ultimately it started with a chip on my shoulder and I wanted us to have recognition and opportunities for rider like me and you know, like riders that I was seeing as a young professional too.

Wow, that's an incredible journey and just shows the power of when there's a hole in the system, what can be done to really, to really fix that for the future generations.

And that's pretty incredible for, you know, I did not come up through the IEA system personally, but my, my college hosted, I believe, an IAEA show each year.

And then of course at NRHA we hosted IEA several times at the Derby and of course they're an alliance partner.

But for our listeners who maybe have not been exposed to the IEA world before, talk us through how the horse shows work.

Specifically that draw system you mentioned earlier.

Basically give us a day in the life of an IEA horse show.

Yeah, so the IEA premise, and again this is built initially to be a feeder directly into the college programs.

So it is draw based, which means that the competitors do not not bring their own horse to the horse show, but that the show host provides the horses and the horses are, are put.

We have four ability levels.

So we offer three disciplines in iea, hunt, seat, western and dressage.

So all within those three disciplines there are four ability levels, a beginner, novice, intermediate and open.

So the horses are, that the facility is providing or the show hosts are providing have to be level appropriate.

So they're categorized into.

These are beginner and novice horses and these are intermediate and or open horses.

So in Western, for example, we have horsemanship classes from the walk, jog level all the way up to open, which includes, you know, walk, jog and lope as well as advanced pattern work.

And then we also offer ranch riding at the novice level and then a ranch or raining option in intermediate level and then on into raining patterns at the open level.

So the, all of the teams within IEA have.

Everything is built on a, a community idea that we're all sharing our resources so that kids have an opportunity to ride horses and try out riding and showing horses even if they either can't, maybe they can't afford to have a horse of their own.

Or maybe, you know, there's a step before having a horse of your own, which is like, let's try this thing out, see if we like it before your parents jump in and buy one.

So it's a real great entry point for getting involved.

But all of the teams have a hosting obligation, so they have to either host one show or co host two horse shows.

And so within those they're providing, you know, it's sort of like having a potluck dinner is.

I think of like, I'm gonna host a show and I'm gonna get you guys to bring some horses to my show.

And then when.

When you host a show, I'll help you out and bring a few horses to yours.

But the horses are all placed according to the ability level that the riders that they're suitable for.

And then the teams get there in the morning and usually they will do a live draw where it's, you know, literally drawing a name out of a hat.

And that's who you're assigned.

You'll have a separate draw for your two.

There's basically two classes for most of the riders, where there's a rail class, a group class, and an individual performance class, and separate draws for each of those.

So you're likely to have two completely different horses.

And through all that, it.

We've a given an opportunity, like I said before, maybe just to focus folks that wouldn't have access to trying out the sport or, or getting involved in it any at all.

We've also leveled the playing field and given some different aspects of competition and horsemanship that you may not get if you're showing your own horse.

So even kids, as they get into upper levels of riding, still enjoy competing in IEA because the.

The challenge of getting on a horse you don't know is a completely different set of tools than riding the same horse or showing horse every time.

So it changes, you know, your expectations, it teaches you a lot about what your strengths and weaknesses are.

And, and if you're thinking at all about going into the profession, career of being a writer or trainer, it certainly helps you with that idea of being a good catch rider, being able to, you know, hop on and.

And show one with finesse.

And also it has a different aspect in the team aspect and the camaraderie of being on a team, that that beginner rider carries as much weight on the team as your open rider does, and that they're rooting for each other and that you have sort of an offensive and a defensive players on your team like you not only want to win your class, but you want to also, you know, if you've got multiple riders on your team that might place higher than other people, then you're sort of pushing them down in the rankings.

So it's a lot of fun.

And again, the team aspect, the camaraderie, the draw base format and the horseman horsemanship skills involved all makes it a little unique compared to our traditional way of showing horses.

And I love how you mentioned draw because reigning obviously has a draw too.

It's very different.

Our draw is not to ride the horse, our draw is to see where you go when you make finals.

But we do a huge draw party at all of our shows where it's really amped up, but it's super fun.

So yeah, draw can be different for different things, but it's definitely part of the horse world.

So I know that in many circumstances, IEA is when many riders are first starting the their competitive journeys.

So now we're going to dive into what it's like to see some of them go on into ranks of different breed and discipline associations.

And of course today we're going to focus on reigning.

You've had quite a few IEA writers who have gone on to do some pretty tremendous things within our ranks.

Sam and I are going to go ahead and share a few of those and then Roxanne, we want you to jump in anytime.

Thank you for creating this list.

List, it's, it's quite long.

There are quite a few page list that are doing, doing or have done IEA and nrha.

So that was fun and I'm sure we missed quite a few, but we, we captured a four page list in the process, so that's pretty well.

And what's neat about it is for example, Jessica Bean is on here, she's an NRHA judge.

We also have Holly Hover on here who's an NRHA double A judge.

Not to mention all of the writers and some of them are million dollar riders with us.

They actually crossed the million dollar mark, which is pretty fantastic.

And one of those includes Trevor Dare, who not only has crossed the million dollar mark with us, but he's also was a part of IHSA that we're gonna chat about next.

And then he also is now in featured in a lot of our videos that we're doing through the this right here is Raining campaign.

So we really enjoy Trevor.

And then of course Casey o', Rourke, the very, very first female to win our NRHA futurity that happened last fall.

She Also was part of an IEA team that her mother did, Pond Hill equestrian team and still run.

So, so many amazing people on here.

And the list just goes on and on.

Sam, do you want to dive into a couple as well?

Yeah, and I actually.

I want to talk a little bit about some of these individuals went above and beyond, I think, their competition achievements.

Becky Hansen, Professional Horseman of the Year.

I mean, these achievements, you know, it's wonderful what they're doing in the show pen as well, but these show what great leadership that these individuals have.

And I'm sure part of that is attributed to their time in IEA and being part of a team and having to step up to the leaders.

And I mean, all of these individuals that were on this list, they have incredible.

They've made their mark on.

On the reigning industry in one way or another.

And as Christie was mentioning, we have some judges that are in here and several world champions.

So, I mean, what's it like, Roxanne, just seeing some of these individuals that, you know, have come through the program that you created, get to these.

This level in NRHA and other disciplines?

Well, even as you say that, it's sort of.

It gives me chills.

Like, that's just.

It's just really cool to be a part, even a small part of anybody's journey in this industry, you know, to feel like we had some hand in either creating their interest, creating their pathway, creating the opportunity.

It's so rewarding.

It's, you know, to.

To me, watching these riders is like a piece of your extended family, you know, and so you're rooting for them.

It's, like, so cool.

And like.

Like, Trevor was one.

Was our leading rider at our first IEA Western finals ever, so.

And his mom was a coach.

She's just recently retired in the last year, but she's been an IEA coach for over 20 years and had a Huntsy team and a Western team all this time.

And, you know, to be like.

Like, you know, we're all.

We're friends and we're rooting for your son, too.

And it's.

It's just really cool to be even a small part of that.

And, you know, to.

To see the success of these riders.

And I'm sure some of these riders, you know, may not have even found the sport if they didn't have some of these introductory opportunities.

Now some of them, you know, like Trevor obviously was coming up through a family who was very involved, but a lot of these riders, you know, may maybe weren't coming from a family that already had connections and knew how to get in there.

And so I, I, I just, it's so rewarding.

It's ultimate Ult our ultimate goal here.

And I think all of us in the industry, our ultimate goal is just, you know, for us, we want to feed the, the roots and the grassroots and start these riders and then partner with other organizations so they can find their, as they grow and mature and want to continue as, you know, as higher level junior riders and on into their adult lives as either amateurs or professionals.

So it's just hugely rewarding to feel like we played any part at all in helping them find their way.

That's amazing.

That's, it's, I mean, it's just truly must be incredible to see some of those, you know, they were kids when they went through the program and now they're trainers, they're professionals, they're judges, and they're helping other future youth come up the same way.

And that's, that's just wonderful.

And you know, another thing that strikes me that I hadn't really thought about so much before, but in the iea, because there's that hosting obligation.

All the, all the riders on these teams, they're helping run horse shows, so they're helping hold horses and groom horses and, and set up the pen and move the chairs in and out or if it's the jumps, they're moving the jumps, you know, all the things, things that it takes to put on a horse show, they're helping with that.

And so I think then as they go on into particularly careers as professionals, they have a different appreciation for what's happening behind the scenes before you walk in the pen.

And I think, you know, you, you mentioned so many of these that have, have, have horsemanship awards and, and clearly have not just, you know, the, the winnings in the arena, but also the respect of the community.

And I think that again, because they have a different level of respect and understanding of what's going on behind the scenes and you know, whatever they may do as an exhibitor to support that.

Roxanne, we just recently put a young lady on our social media who won the IEA Sportsmanship award two years in a row, who also is a green Rainer with us.

So it just goes on and on.

But we're going to need to wrap up.

So go ahead and let us know.

How can folks find out more about iea, what's website, social media, all the things.

Okay, so first of all, all of the information really is on our website.

Our website's pretty easy to navigate to and that's@ride iea.org so r I d e I e a.org and then you know, all the hashtags are under ride iea and that too.

Our phone number to call the office is 877-Ride IEA.

So if you can just remember Ride IEA, you will track us down in any way.

Whether that's through the social media on our website or just, you know, looking for the phone number, everything is pretty easy to find.

Thanks again for being on our show today and showing the true alliance that we do have.

Absolutely.

We really appreciate getting to work with nrha, getting to partner with you guys and feeding as many of our riders as we can on into your association as well.

Ollie Griffith Former owner of Autumn Rose Farm and coach of the Ohio State Equestrian Team, Ollie Griffith has built a successful career based on developing 13 world champions within the National Reining Horse Association.

He has also coached the Ohio State team to a record 10 time team championships with the Intercollegiate Horse Show Association.

Currently, Ali is judging NRHA shows within the outside of the U.S. he has judged in the U.S. italy, Brazil, Australia and Israel.

He has also judged our NRHA futurity nine times.

Ollie conducts reining and horsemanship clinics throughout the US as well.

Welcome to the show, Ollie.

Thank you very much.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely.

We're thrilled that you're able to join us today.

So as you have been involved in IHSA and NRHA for most of your career, being a coach, a judge, a competitor, it means wearing several different hats.

Tell us more about your journey through nrha, through IHSA and why you enjoy being a part of both associations.

Sure.

Well, I will tell you it makes me feel a little old because I've been involved with NRHA since the inception of NRHA as a young man.

Coming up the ranks, I wanted to know how to go into the horse business.

The horse business is much more lucrative today than it was back in D day and I didn't know how to make a good living.

And what I chose to do is open a facility that taught people to ride, that people could go show horses, people could show all kinds of different horses.

And naturally, with my love of reigning horses, NRHA is the one that kind of got sold out.

It is the One that I sold in our business is we really enjoyed taking customers to NRHA shows.

Always did.

Still do.

But the.

The NRHA has.

Has helped develop so many riders, or the quest to be able to ride in the NRHA has built so many riders through horsemanship ability.

It's just been a journ.

I can't tell you how thankful I am.

I've kind of been spoiled as a professional because when I chose to do this, we were in a very large market and we could teach an awful lot of classes.

There were weeks that we would have over 500 people at our facility.

And with that, you create where the interest goes.

So we had people riding pleasure horses, reigning horses, all that sort of thing.

And that led into how I chose to become a coach at Ohio State University.

And when I, When I involved myself with the IHSA day, that was.

That was a real experience because we were talking about we were riding older show horses.

They weren't the quality of horses that we were taking to the NRH events, which.

There's a real blessing behind that, because if you can teach someone to ride different mounts, unfamiliar mounts, they certainly can develop more on their own horse or if they have a horse, and if they don't, they can develop their skill.

Skills to look forward to owning, winning an NRHA horse.

I agree 100%.

And I know we are such a proud alliance partner of the Intercollegiate Horse show association, and we sponsor your Western semifinals.

Can you tell us a little bit more about this event?

Yeah.

I was fortunate 15 years ago, I'd say, to.

To help develop.

To go to a semifinals format.

We were.

We were built on a regional program where there were different regions throughout the country.

Then they.

What they did is they qualified through regionals and went to Z.

Then from zones, they went to nationals.

Well, our.

As the Western Committee chairman, we spoke and, you know, one of the things we needed to do because we wanted to keep NRHA's interest, we wanted to do a good job for them, is we didn't want weaker areas.

Maybe there's a weaker area for two or three years in one part of the country or whatever.

We didn't want people to get to nationals by the time we cut it all the way down and not have our absolute best there.

So what we chose to do is we went to a semifinal format, and that was three different horse shows on the same day with the same schedule in different parts of the country.

So.

And.

And what it meant was really special for the universities because we got to travel.

So even someone that didn't make it to nationals, Might go from Ohio to wet to Texas, someone might go to California, someone might go to Oregon.

So it was real special is if they didn't make it to nationals, I always felt like they felt like they made it to a mini nationals.

So it was a real special event.

So what happens is we start with over 200 Western teams and from, from that 200 teams we end up taking 21 to 24, depending on the year teams to the semifinals.

So you split those up and those teams go to the semifinals and then seven or eight of those teams will advance out of the semifinals to nationals.

The best way to describe to somebody that's not familiar is it's really kind of like March Madness.

We actually seeded the people that, that typically have teams there.

We don't want them on the seating commit committee, but they see teams and what we do is we look at last year's nationals and whoever was first will go to one semi finals.

Whoever was second will go to a different one.

Whoever's third will go to a third one fourth will go where first went, fifth will go where second went and six will and vice versa all the way down.

So what we're doing is we're saying we're are placing out the competition level so that we can get the best people to our national finals.

And it has worked extremely well I think from a standpoint of the students enjoying it, coaches enjoying it, and the quality of horses.

Because what we do is they, they the quality of horses steps up as we get there and then as we get to nationals.

Because do remember they're riding unfamiliar mounts and we have divisions in the IHSA that are from beginners, learner, intermediate, novice, advanced and open.

Our open riders are the quality of riders that could go to some of our major events and show either in the pleasure or in the rainy.

Our beginning riders are learning, but it's a special part.

And going back to the, the first question you asked me, it's, it's really special for me because we could start a walk trot rider and I have one that, that she's still riding NRHA rein horses and it was 20 years ago and right now she's got a little girl and guess what she's doing the short stirrup.

So I mean there was a walk trot hunt seat rider I converted to a walk trot western rider and she decided she liked the Rainers and she's been involved with the National Raining horse Association for 20 years.

So it's, it's Just one thing to the other.

But the, the semifinals are a terrific, a terrific event.

If you ever get a chance to go to one, please go.

Wow, that's an incredible story about that one.

Walk, trot, right rider.

And for the listeners who may not be as familiar with IHSA or the Intercollegiate Horse show association as its full name, it's similar to IEA that we just heard about.

It's a catch ride system.

So we have schools, all have teams and then the schools host the events and provide the horsepower and the teams travel there and do a draw for their horse and then compete on the horse.

Just.

It's very similar to the IEA system, but it's at the collegiate level.

And as Ollie said, then you, you can qualify rider through the semifinals and to nationals.

I came through the IHSA program while I was in college and it was a great opportunity, not just for competing, but also for learning how to be a leader.

To work in a team environment about dedication and hard work.

Figuring out a horse as you're walking into the arena to show really being a part of IHSA was so much more than just the competition aspect, in my opinion.

And your coaches really helped to define you and who you could be in your professional career.

I know mine even played a part in helping my NRHA career happen.

Several NRHA riders have come through ihsa.

Off top of my head.

Three or four NRHA million dollar riders, several world title holders, we can get into that in a little bit.

That actually came through Ohio State's program.

Tell us what it is like after working with these riders for four critical and influential years where they are deciding if they want to take the road of professional training or go down another career pat and then to see several of them reach the top accomplishments at nrha.

What is that like as an IHSA coach, knowing they came through the program?

You know, it's phenomenal.

And I tell you, it makes you feel real positive about what you've had, what you've shared an interest in trying to help somebody do.

But to see what these riders have gone on to do and many of them, they can do that by not becoming a professional.

They can do that by, you know, doing other things in the equine industry, which we get a lot of that because a lot of the people that do this, you know, go to ag schools or whatever and, and compete.

The.

When you see these guys succeed, it does make you feel really, really good.

And it's pretty special when they, they didn't really have the Interest of reigning.

Maybe had the interest of reigning horses but didn't know how to get into it.

Because the nice thing about the intercollegiate is they don't have to own a horse.

I mean, I've had an open rider that placed in the high point rider class, which is the, the pinnacle of the IHSA that never owned a horse.

She leased a horse for one summer, but she rode religiously and she wanted to be good and she was competing against kids that had done quite a bit in the NRHA AQHA APA Industries.

So it's, it's pretty amazing.

It's a great opportunity for them.

But to see them go on, it is, it is truly amazing.

I actually had to pick something up at a, at a facility where a young man that rode for me was there and he had maybe 15 NRHA Rainers riding on the track and he was given a two hour class where he could spend a little bit of time with everybody.

And it was, I looked around and thought, wow, he grew up in my program and this program is the real deal.

So, you know, he's, he's turned into quite a horse trainer.

But they, they have plenty of opportunity.

And you know, the thing is they'll meet a lot of people along the way.

I mean, they'll meet NRHA people when you guys come to Semin, when you come to Nationals.

So.

And I'll leave.

Sam and I were going through the list that you sent over and we have on here $3 million writers in our organization that have come through IHSA.

Trevor Dare, Cole Price and Jared Leclair.

And that's saying something, right?

Getting a million dollars doesn't come, come easy in any sport anywhere.

And braining is one of those.

And it takes a lot of dedication and oh my gosh, just the resilience of going horse show after horse show after horse show.

And so not only are you producing great competitors, but you're also producing trainers that stay within the industry.

So some are on this list are non pros competing in that division for us.

Others of course, are our actual trainers who are teaching, teaching others.

It is just a incredible list of folks that have gone through the program.

Are there any on the list that you would like to chat about today?

I can run down through them because you, you guys will be amused by this.

Trevor Dare, I begged him to come to Ohio State.

He is from the state of Ohio.

He went to the University of Finley and certainly he's gone on to do great things.

I didn't, I didn't Win that one.

But Trevor is, we all know he's great horseman if we're involved with nrha.

But he's your young Cole Price.

I'm not familiar, I don't know Cole personally, but I certainly have judged him and what a talent in our industry.

Jared LeClaire.

Everyone should know Jared that's in our industry because he's been around a while.

He served on the judges program with me.

And Jared is a great guy and absolute terrific hand.

I tried to hire him when he was in school at Finley, at Nationals.

I told him when he's done, I'd love to have him come work for me to teach and instruct Strut reigning in our facility.

And Jared wanted to become a horse trainer and he went on and I'd say he did the right thing.

The next one on the list that I sent you was Keith Cedia.

Keith Cedia is from the state of Ohio and he and Jesse Gentile are probably two of the strongest young professionals in the state of Ohio and with the nrha.

There are others, but these, these two are great if you go to an affiliate show.

Keith has been a three time Congress Freestyle champion.

He's won the open at the Congress before and he's also, when he was with me before he bec trailer, he was professional rookie professional world champion with nrha.

So he's done some great things.

He helps people and it's just, it's wonderful to watch him work.

And then Jesse Gentile is another one that, that came to Ohio State, did some great things.

He's won a lot of money in the NRHA and he's, he's won a world champion.

I know NRHA novice horse championship and I pretty sure he was reserve NRHA Open world title.

I believe he may have won a world open title.

You could check that.

But anyway, wonderful, wonderful horse trainers.

Then when you step out of the professional ranks and you go down.

My son won a world title in the 14 to 18.

He, he won the limited non pro world title on a different horse.

And then Ollie, you had another one from Ohio State University who won the Congress Freestyle a couple of times and she also won a reserve intermediate open world title with us.

And so go ahead and talk a little bit about Laura.

Yeah, Laura.

And she actually married a professional NRA trainer, Robin Schroller.

And, and her name was Laura Phillips at the time and she was a wonderful kid, good horsemanship, rider.

And when she came to Ohio State she wanted to, she wanted to show the Rainers and she did.

And then went on to do those things that.

That were so successful in the nrha.

Well, it has been a joy having you on today.

And let me tell you something, Ollie.

I don't know if you know this, but a long, long time ago, I was getting my master's degree at CU Boulder here in Colorado, and I went to Club Sports Rodeo Team, and I said, you guys need to have an IHSA team, and I founded one.

And the University of Colorado Boulder has gone on to be at your nationals.

So I am pretty excited that all these years later, it's still going strong.

So IHSA has a very, very dear place in my heart, and we're so excited about our alliance with you and how much we do with you and how many of your youth went on to do tremendous things in our reigning world.

So how do our listeners find out more about ihsa?

What is the best way to do that?

If you go to the web, their website, ihsainc.com that's probably the best way.

But if you.

It's the Intercollegiate Horse Show Association.

If you Google that, it'll come up and it'll show you how to get there.

You can find out where there are teams or what universities.

I mean, there are a lot of universities doing the intercollegiate.

You have the opportunity probably to ride.

If you don't, you can create a team.

That's, that's truthfully.

And that's the unique thing is, you know, even Ohio State is successful, as we've been fortunate to.

To do in.

In the ihsa.

We started with five members, and they came to me and asked me if I would consider doing it, and I went and it was an experience.

It was so much different than what we're used to.

But, you know, when it comes to training horses, the one thing about great trainers is they.

They don't ride one horse.

Horse.

Not every horse is the same.

They're all different.

And, you know, the thing is you catch ride in this.

So the really good riders that develop through this, they've learned how to deal with different temperaments, different mindsets of the equine, and it's just really special.

Well, I know IHSA had a special place for me.

It definitely gave me incredible experience through my college years.

And like I said, my.

My coaches actually helped me here at nrha.

So I just want to thank you so much for being with us today, Ollie, and we look forward to seeing you at future NRHA events.

You're welcome.

Dr. Jimmy Nichols is the director of nutrition for Bluebonnet Feeds and host of the internationally recognized equine nutrition podcast, feed room chemist.

Dr. Nichols is a lifelong horse owner and competitor.

She has spent the last 15 years as an equine nutritionalist and enjoys translating scientific research into practical, understandable information for real world use.

Her published research evaluated the use of an oral psyllium supplement for managing blood glucose and insulin concentrations in horses.

Additional research has focused on investigating equine nutrition knowledge and educational needs of equine vets.

Dr. Nichols enjoys spending time with her husband and two children, traveling, riding horses, and.

And being outdoors.

Welcome to the show, Dr. Nichols.

Thank you.

I'm super happy to be here.

We are really excited to have you on as well.

I am just going to start by saying what got you involved in horse nutrition?

How did your whole journey go?

Now you have a podcast, you work for Bluebonnet.

Go ahead and share with us all of it.

Sure.

So, you know, I'm a pretty firm believer that horses are in your blood when you're born, and I was definitely one of those people.

So my parents both grew up around horses.

I grew up on a ranch, actually, so we raised cattle and we used horses on, you know, a day to day basis working the cattle.

And so I've.

I've been a horse girl really since the moment that I was born.

And so I always knew growing up that I was going to do something with horses for my career.

I just didn't know for sure what it was going to be.

I actually, I went through college, I rode competitively and, you know, know that I'm very much a competitor.

And so the competition aspect led me for a really long time until I realized that I probably should pursue some kind of career because being a horse trainer and being competitive full time doesn't pay that great.

So I actually decided after I finished my undergrad, I had a major professor who asked me if I'd be willing to stay and work on a master's degree in equine nutrition.

And that's an area that's always interested me, you know, this idea that you could use.

Use feed and supplements to kind of manipulate or maneuver your way around the horse.

And so I'm like, you know what if I can learn more about that, I'm all for it.

So I went ahead and did my master's.

I love school, but I also was ready to get into industry.

So right after I finished my master's, I went into industry.

And that was actually when I started working for Blue Bonnet.

I started as an equine specialist out in the field and getting on people's property, going to their barns, helping them evaluate their horses.

And after a few years of that, I realized, man, I want to get deeper in this.

And so I actually went back to school to work on my PhD, and once I got that finished, I was able to advance into kind of the head nutritionist role at Bluebonnet and really kind of put that real world experience, merge it together with what I learned from the academic side, and then be in a position with a company where I could actually make a difference with that information.

So that's kind of the really quick version of how I landed where I'm at.

Wow, that's awesome.

And I love that example of someone, you know, you went to school, then you went out into the real world, got some real world, real world experience, then you went back to school and used everything you learned from your real world application and your school to apply it to pretty much what sounds like your dream job.

So that's.

That's pretty cool.

That's pretty exciting.

So we recently attended an equine educational roadshow together in Mexico earlier this year, the Expo Dell Americano.

And even though I have been around horses my whole life, much of the time around performance horses, and I feel like I have a decent understanding of basic nuances of equine health, I learned so much sitting through your nutritional seminar.

It was excellent.

One of the areas, areas your seminar covered, I want to talk about.

In simple terms, how do we know when our feed is working for us and when it's not, specifically in terms of body condition, score and performance.

And then on top of that, how do we know when supplements are necessary for our horses?

Yeah.

So, okay, first of all, Sam, I want to say I had a blast with you in Mexico.

It was so fun to see the people and immerse ourselves in the culture and I mean, just getting, getting to see horses and be on, on the property, you know, I mean, there were some just phenomenal operations that we were able to see.

There were some amazing horses.

The people were awesome.

Like, I had an absolute blast on, on that whole, that whole week.

It was great.

So I, I appreciate you guys letting me tag along and be a presenter at that, because it was, it was awesome.

So you guys did a top notch job.

It was, it was definitely a great experience.

Experience.

I think from start to finish, we were very fortunate you decided to come with us.

It was good.

We should do it again.

So.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

So to answer your questions, you know how, let's start with the first you'd ask, you know, how do you know if your nutrition is working for you?

And, you know, I think there's something about, like, for people who have been horse people their whole lives, it's kind of like, well, you just watch the horse, right?

Like, how do they look?

How are they acting, how are they performing?

There's all of these little things that, you know, we just kind of know.

But for someone who maybe is entering the horse world later in life or maybe didn't grow up around it, and.

And they.

They kind of need a little bit.

A little more tactical, you know, how.

How do I really know this?

Some things that we look for, you know, kind of the primary one is body condition score.

And I think this is an area where a lot of times people get hung up and what they do is they just look at a horse's belly, and it's like, if the belly is big and fat, they think the horse is overweight.

And if the belly is tucked up and has kind of like a greyh, they think the horse is skinny.

Or they look for ribs, and those are small pieces of it.

But what we really want to look for are fat deposits.

And horses actually carry fat in very specific areas of the body that is not the bottom of the belly.

Okay.

So if you're looking at the body condition of a horse and whether or not they are carrying an appropriate amount of fat fat, you want to look at areas like the top of the.

The main line.

So the.

The.

The neck, we call it having a crusty neck.

If they have kind of like that rainbow shape to their neck, horses will accumulate fat along the top of their neck.

And so you want to make sure that your horse doesn't have a crusty neck or a big floppy, you know, fat deposit that's depositing along their neck.

Horses will also accumulate fat at their tail head.

So if you have a horse that has.

We call it kind of a sunken tail head, like, if their t literally is lower than both sides of it, that sunken appearance can be indication that that horse is overweight, that they're carrying too much fat.

Behind the elbow is another area over the ribs and then also along the spine.

So if you could dump water if.

If it rained on your horse and your horse was standing outside and it rained on him, and water could literally pool along their spine, that's an indication they're probably carrying too much weight because fat can deposit along each side of the spine like that.

So those are kind of some simple rules to determine whether or not Your horses may be carrying too much weight.

And then you look in all of those same areas but for the opposite if they're underweight.

Right.

So a lot of times with the underweight horses, you know, you're looking at ribs.

The ribs become really prominent, the spinous processes along the back become really prominent.

They'll have kind of a, a TP effect.

So if you poured water on that horse's spine, it's just going to shoot off, kind of like you were pouring it down a mountain.

You look at their hip bo, those will really start to protrude their, their spinous process.

Or their vertebrae of their neck would be really easy to feel.

They might get more sunken in in front of their shoulder.

Those are all kind of signs of a horse that's maybe in a malnutrition state or not not getting enough basic nutrition.

And when I say basic nutrition I just mean, you know, calories, primarily calories.

So you know, fat, fiber, protein, things like that.

Yeah, it's very helpful.

And I have Dr. Nichols, a 31 year old Arabian gelding and he is body condition score.

Yeah, probably three.

And that's just who he is.

Right?

Because that's his age and that's where he's at and that's kind of what's going on.

And so it's really good because educationally when, because I still teach riding.

So when students come over to ride I can explain well the difference between socks, who's more body condition score of five plus probably and then him is this.

And this is the body condition score chart.

So using that I think is very helpful.

But there is so much more to it.

I think that that just makes really, really good sense.

So if we go a little further after now talking about their how to kind of notice if they're skinny, healthy, whatever the case may be, how do you know if you need supplements?

How is that next stage?

So this, this is an area where I mean we literally could spend an entire episode talking about this.

Like, I mean like an hour long episode this.

But I think that, that people miss on this fact of.

You've got to understand what your hay is providing first and foremost because that is the foundation of a horse's diet and it should be the foundation of a horse's diet.

I mean, look, I work for a feed company and I am telling you that hay, grass, forage should be the foundation of the diet, not a feed.

Okay?

The reason for that is because horses are what we call hind gut fermenters.

They are designed to graze or all, all day long.

They're designed to eat food and graze all day long.

And they're designed to graze high fiber foods.

Okay?

So grass hay, that's exactly what they need to be eating.

So my general rule of thumb is, is you want a horse eating one and a half to 2% of their body weight in forage every day.

So if your horse weighs a thousand pounds, they should be eating roughly 20 pounds per day of forage of hay.

Let's, let's just, just say, hey, you've got grass hay out there.

They should be eating 20 pounds a day of it.

If they weigh a thousand pounds, that's 2% of their body weight.

That is the bulk of their diet.

So you have to understand what nutrition that hay that you are feeding is providing to your horse.

And the only way to do that is to take a sample of that hay and send it off to a lab and have it analyzed.

Once you get a feel for what those, those hay analyses are coming back, like, like, you'll kind of build this library of your own in your mind and you'll kind of get a feel for where you're at and you'll be able to match the appropriate feeds.

Ideally, you would work with a nutrition consultant who would help you match feed or supplement to make up for the gaps in your hay.

That's, that's really the correct way to do it to make sure that you're not under supplying or over supplying in any certain area.

But I'll be honest, there is, most of the horse world doesn't do it that way.

It's, you know, and that was part of, when I was sitting through your seminar, you know, we all know, okay, yes, you know, hay is important, grass is important.

But to know its priority level amongst, like, if you put it in like number one priorities, this, number two priorities, that, like, knowing that that's pretty much number one priority.

I'm not sure a lot of horse folks know that.

And even listening to you talk about, okay, you should really get it analyzed to know you're working with that makes so much sense.

I mean, we, we look at nutrition labels for ourselves all the time.

Why would we not know what our horses are ingesting?

Even though it's, you know, it's hay, everybody's like, oh, it's hay, it's this kind of hay, it's that kind of hay.

But actually breaking it down and knowing the actual chemical makeup of it to tell what your horse is ingesting and what he may be missing, that was just that to me is so interesting.

And I could talk to you for an hour or more about all these topics because I think it's so fascinating.

But really quick.

What?

Oh, go ahead.

Well, I just, I just.

On that topic, I just want to point out, you know, I think sometimes people get so hung up on a certain percent of something in a feed, right?

They're like, oh, I have to have 1% more protein or 2% less non structural carbohydrates or sugars.

And the reality is that if you're only feeding 4 or 5 pounds of that feed, that that 1% difference of whatever it is you're chasing doesn't make a hill of beans difference compared to the 20 pounds of hay that you're feeding that you have no idea what the actual protein percent is or the sugar percent is.

And so if you truly want to dial your horse's diet in, you have got to understand what that hay provides and not put all of your attention and your energy on, on just the feed or the supplement that you're looking at.

You know, it's, it's easy to look at those because they're available commercial.

Right.

Like, you can look at the labels online and you can spend all day comparing, but the reality is, is that you're not going to get ahead and you're not going to get what you really want unless you know what that hay is providing first.

That makes so much sense.

That makes so much sense.

And it's almost like when you say it, I'm like, yeah, of course.

But then, you know, do any of us do it or have we done it previously?

I'm not sure that we.

Exactly what is the foundational versus functional nutrition?

What's the difference between those or what do those mean in terms of nutrition?

Yeah, so this is one of my favorite topics.

So as nutritionists, we are trained in what, what I call foundational nutrition.

So foundational nutrition is just nutrition like you would think of it.

It's, it's vitamins, minerals, protein, calories, fiber, all of the basic.

When we think about formulating a diet, it's what we are, you know, calculating for to make sure that we meet minimums on all of the things that are set out by the National Research Council's requirements for horses.

I mean, there's, there's an actual book out there in case anybody's super interested in this.

It's called the nrc.

The, the National Research Council puts out a book and it tells you exactly how much protein, how, how much of the amino Acids, lysine, how much, how many vitamins, minerals.

Every single thing is broken out, right?

And it tells you exactly how much of each thing you should feed to a horse based on their activities, their life stage, their activity level, their age, whether they're growing, whether they're mature, whether it's a broodmare, whether it's maintenance horses, all this stuff broken out.

So it's not like this is some mystery, right?

Anybody can go buy that book and get those numbers and then formulate the diet to meet those numbers.

So that is foundational nutrition, and that's what nutritionists are trained to do.

Now there is this whole other world that, that I call functional nutrition.

And having the word nutrition in it is a little bit confusing because what, what it really is is it's using the mouth and the digestive system as a way to get biologically active components into the body.

Okay, so that sounds really confusing.

So let me make it simpler.

Functional nutrition are things that are not your normal foundational nutrition.

So functional nutrition would be if you were to supplement with something like plasma to support immune health, if you were trying to supplement with glucosamine, chondroitin, msn, things to support joint health, maybe you're using butyric acid or colostrum to try to support tight junction function along the digestive tract.

Maybe you're doing pre pro postbiotics to try to really support the microbiome and the digestive health.

Maybe you're elevating, maybe you're doing elevated levels of certain minerals that go above and beyond what the NRC says that you should do.

From a nutritional standpoint, you're using them at functional levels to elicit biological responses within the body.

For example, chromium for horses that are dealing with heat stress.

Okay, so there's all kinds of different things that we can use the mouth and the digestive system as just like this port of entry to get something into the body that has, that can elicit this biological response.

So that's, that's the concept of foundational nutri or functional nutrition.

I'm sorry.

And so sometimes what happens is, you know, you might work with a nutritionist and if they're not trained or interested, let's say, in the functional nutrition side of things, they might just chop all of those supplements out and they'll say, oh, well, that's, that's just pixie dust, fairy dust, whatever, you don't need it.

That's just junk.

Don't waste your money.

That's not having any impact on the nutritional Diet, it's like, okay, well no, it's not intended to have impact on the nutritional diet.

Right.

Those things aren't intended to provide protein and, and fat and calories.

Right.

They're intended to elicit a specific response within an area of the body.

So they're, they're two totally different games.

Where they get confused is, is that we're, we're putting them into the body through the mouth, both nutritional and functional.

And so it can get a little bit dicey about, you know, some people saying that they're not necessary.

But that's kind of the difference.

That's the very short, condensed version of the difference between foundational nutrition versus functional nutrition.

And at Bluebonnet, we, we offer both sides of it.

So I, I just love that topic.

And Dr. Nichols, I know we barely scratched the surface on all of this because there is so much to nutrition.

So obviously people can dive into your feed room chemist podcast to find out more.

But we want to thank NRHA's corporate partner, Bluebonnet Feeds, who also brought you on the show today.

Thank you so much to them and everything they do.

How do our listeners find out more about Bluebonnet?

What is the best website?

Social media.

Where should they go?

Yeah, so hop on the website.

It's bluebonnetfeeds.com on there.

You can, you can sign up for a free nutrition consult.

There are a ton of learning resources, so we really use education as supply platform with our company.

We want you to understand what you're feeding.

We're all about transparency.

So there's all kinds of things that you can find on that website.

And then we also like to be fun and relatable and I mean we're all horse people too.

And so we have a few social channels, so Facebook, Instagram and TikTok, you can find us on all of those.

And we just try to hang out and be horse people with other horse people and we have a lot of fun on those channels and we would love it if you to guys want would come join us.

Well, and you all did such a fun coffee talk that Sam was in charge of at our derby where you were interviewing some of the writers that you sponsor that do raining.

And it was literally just a chit chat about them and their lives and what they do.

And I just so appreciated that kind of fun side of you as well.

And the educational side that it doesn't always have to be about feed.

Sometimes it's about the people that, that are part of the horse world.

So really thank you for that as well.

Absolutely.

We're here for the horses.

And I mean, horses are always fun.

It doesn't matter what you're doing, you can make it fun if you're there for the horses.

Wow, Sam, what a show.

So getting to not only talk about fourth grade, all the way up through college, catch riding and how you can get involved with both Interscholastic Equestrian association and also Intercollegiate Horse show association, but this, then having Dr. Nichols come on and give us such a great 30,000 foot view of nutrition, knowing how much there is to know about it, it was just a fantastic show.

Truly was.

And like I said, I could talk to Dr. Nichols for hours.

I just, I learned something every time I talk to her and it's always important and pertinent information about being a better horse owner.

And yeah, those two associates associations, the 4th through 12th and collegiate years of someone's life is so impactful.

And those associations do such a great job on getting the youth of today and the future leaders of tomorrow in a great environment to be part of a team, to be a leader.

Yeah, it's just they're amazing associations.

To find our podcast, go to nrha.com podcast now go out and have the slide of your life.

It.