It seems like everyone has their own podcast, so is it still possible for you to use a podcast that will grow your company?

In this episode of Marketing Refresh, Terri welcomes Erin Gregor, Founder of PodGrowth to discuss the ins and outs of using podcasts to enhance B2B marketing strategies.

Erin talks about why most companies make the mistake of looking at a podcast as a tool that should bring in sponsorships. There are several other ways that you can use this medium to grow your company. From strategically selecting podcast guests to highlighting behind-the-scenes of what it's like to work with your company, podcasting can be a powerful way to quickly build a know, like, and trust factor with your potential clients.

They also highlight why podcasting can be so powerful. It allows you to create one piece of content and multiply it into various pieces of content, especially effective on platforms like LinkedIn. Erin also gives examples of how podcasting can help achieve significant organic reach on YouTube using only short podcast clips. Additionally, they discuss how podcasts can reveal company culture, which helps attract exceptional employees.

Topics Covered:

• Guest Strategy for Podcasts
• Organic Reach and Visibility
• Podcast Episode Lengths and Frequency
• Building Credibility and Thought Leadership
• Company Culture and Attracting Talent
• Hosting Skills and Podcast Development
• Overcoming Barriers in Podcasting

To learn more about PodGrowth, visit: www.PodGrowth.co

To connect with Marketing Refresh, visit: MarketingRefresh.com

This is b to b marketing methods. I'm your host, Terry Hoffman, and I'm the CEO of Marketing Refresh. Let's face it. Embracing digital marketing is daunting. This podcast was created to make it more approachable. Join us as we talk to CEOs, sales leaders, and revenue growth experts who will share lessons learned and tips from their own journeys. Hi, everybody, and welcome back to b to b marketing methods. So today, we have a special guest named Erin Gregor, and she is the founder of PodGrowth.

And I'm really excited because Erin was kind enough to have me as a guest on her podcast a few months back, and now I'm getting to return the favor. So welcome, Erin. I'm glad you could be here today.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I love obviously, I love talking podcasting, so honored to be here.

Yes. And maybe there's a little hint we gave away by the name of your company Pod Growth. So, yeah, the theme of our conversation today is going to be built around the value of b to b podcasting. Right? I think this is a you know, we we all anyone who's interested in hosting a podcast would all love to think that we're gonna turn into kind of the next Joe Rogan or one of my favorites turn into the next next smart list. And, you know, hopefully, today, we can talk a little bit about why that might be aiming, you know, for the wrong wrong target if if you're in the b to b world. Right? So Yes. But before we dive into all of that, maybe you could just start by introducing your company. What do you do? What is PodGrowth?

Yeah. Absolutely. So I started my first podcast back in 2014. So I've been around 10 years now. It's crazy. But kind of to back up even more to that, I've been building companies now for almost 20 years, building and selling. And I found by accident through a blog in 2,005 how the power of storytelling and just people getting to know you helped close deals. So, you know, obviously, as you know, for a while, blogging was your only avenue, and then it moved to video and podcasting.

It's been an evolution of the same principle. Like, allow people an inside look as to who you are, the stories, why you're great to work with, and being able to use that. And what's great about video and audio is if I read something, I kinda get an idea, but there's a lot of room for interpretation where if I'm looking at you and I see what you're about, and I I I feel like I can cut through the noise a bit and really get that know, like, and trust factor faster. So that's I started it, built a company, built several companies around podcasting. And then in 2019, had an opportunity to build a studio and started helping businesses really understand that concept, like, how to look at it from a perspective. Started out just in production, was just gonna do studio work, get people in every hour kinda deal, book out the studio full time. That business model did not work, and so it really became a like, we we now help companies in 3 different formats from that planning. Like, what does success look like to you? And every client is different.

Right? I know, like, you mentioned Joe Rogan. It shouldn't be I don't even know what he's up to now. Be before before COVID, it was, like, 11,000,000 downloads an episode, and I know he's had to blown past that through COVID. And he was 11,000,000 while, like, Tucker Carlson was next on Fox at 5,000,000. That's how huge he is. But he's been doing it since 2009. He's been doing it religiously, multiple episodes every week since 2009, and most people are just not gonna have that dedication or that wherewithal. So we help with that.

What does that look like? How do we measure it? How do we what's going on already? This shouldn't be your only marketing thing you do. But what's going on in your marketing already that we can parlay this with and make it even bigger? Like, you're talking to a client before and it was or a guest before, and they're talking about events. Okay. We've we're doing this huge event. How does the podcast fit into that? How does it fit into our email marketing? How does it fit into social media? All those things. So we help with that planning, then we put together the, you know, obviously, with the production, whatever you're gonna do, and then we've got the growth side. So what we discovered was a lot of people would put a lot of time and effort into producing. They'd make a post about it once when it went live and then never to be talked about again, and then they'd say, like, oh, the podcast isn't working.

It's like, well, no. It's not working because nobody knows about it, and you're not promoting it. So helping with that, like, whole again, going back to the how does it fit as a whole, and then how do we you've you've put you've put the foundation in place. Now how do we get the wheels behind that to get in front of the right audience?

Okay. So you you briefly just touched on a lot of different challenges and and maybe some of the resistance that you encounter that, people feel about starting a podcast. What are what are some of the common questions that you get when people are ready to take that step?

Okay. So couple major ones. First question, how are we gonna monetize it? That is always the question. And so a lot of people view this, again, looking at the success you know, the the big shows we've talked about at the beginning. They look at well, if I don't do this, if I'm not and if I don't have the $80,000,000 Amazon contract, this isn't a success. Right? And so I want you to be able to see results from this 100%. I don't want you to feel like you're talking to a dark hole, but we've gotta reframe the because, like, we talked about this before. When blogging was big and you said you need a blog because you need content.

Right? People would never ask, well, how do I monetize it? No. The content is part of helping you monetize your from your business perspective. Right. So with podcasting, people just view it differently. And and listen. I don't think you need a podcast. I will never I should probably never say that, but you have to, as a business, have content. So when you're looking at a monetization standpoint, it's like, okay.

How can we create measurable results for you from this? Like, is there something we like, your business is sponsoring a webinar or something where we're gonna push people through the podcast to that webinar. Like, hey. Or, hey. Schedule a meeting with me. What are those things that we can create measurable links to to be able to do that? That's gonna be one way to monetize. The biggest one that I don't think people I think they overlook. But from a, like, a story perspective, one of my clients, she only publishes once a month. She's a c she's a bookkeeper.

And somebody she has a podcast. She's been diligent about it for years. And somebody said introduced her to this person, and I still remember she came into our studio, and I still remember the conversation. They were walking out, and he is like, I am so grateful someone introduced us because I don't have anybody who does what you do, and we have so many clients that we need to refer out that way. And that person alone is her biggest referrer in her business. And she's like, that one relationship has 10 timed 10 times my investment in this podcast. So it's like, what doors if you're gonna call somebody, if you're in sales, and you wanna get on the radar of, you know, executives, hey. Can you know, hey.

I'm a salesperson. I wanna talk to you. May get you an answer. I don't know. It's gonna be harder. But if you approach it like, hey. I'm watching what companies are doing. You are really knocking it out of the park.

I I have a podcast that talks about this specifically. Can you come on? That door just opened for you. Right. And, you know, what are you doing with that 30 minutes afterwards or that, you know, that time? And so that is huge. You can partner with people. Like, easy example, if you're a realtor, does it make sense to partner with a mortgage company and you guys are helping create that content together? So you're you're getting it paid for. Right? You're helping with that cost, but and then you're getting in front of their audience, and they're getting in front of yours. So there's ways to go around it versus I need to get I use Athletic Greens because that's one of the big podcast advertisers.

Right? I need to get Athletic Greens. That's a if you're getting to that level where athletic greens wants to app, that's a full time job. That's a 100% full time job, and I don't think you really want that because especially if you're talking about topics that your client is going to find interesting, it's probably not a mass acceptance topic. Right? It's probably not something that the whole world is gonna be interested in, but who are those people that would go to an industry conference that would be really interested in this topic? And Yeah. Just you have to view it differently. So that's the big one. We have to really help people reframe.

You know, one something that I always think of when I think of, like, a b to b con podcast is Mhmm. There are people all the time that I would say, hey. Let's meet for coffee because I wanna catch up. Right? Because they know so much about what's happening in the industry, and I want that information exchange. And to me, a podcast is, like, a more formal way to do that and then giving it giving that information to, like, hundreds of other people who might also benefit. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. You're just repurposing conversations that you're already gonna have.

Right. Yeah. And so then why not why not help use that as a tool to educate the market that you're trying to learn more about if if you've got that capability to do it. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. How do

you, I guess, advise companies in the b to b space about making the podcast, kind of integrate and fit into other parts of their marketing activities?

Yeah. So I'll tell you, we work really well with companies like yours or companies like, you know, who do who are there as a whole marketing strategy. And for someone like you, a lot of times, you're saying we need content. Right? Like, we need content to be able to share. So either you can have you know, you find their voice, you can write it, but or getting to hear the voice of the company in their eyes. Like, I'm not there's nothing against you or your team, but to hear it from have it come directly from them, there's just nothing like it. Right? So to give people that inside look. So what we wanna do is 9 times out of 10, your marketing team is asking for more content, and they can go off and create it.

They can go off and create social media. Right? And so they can go off and write emails. But what if we can just record for 45 minutes on a topic your audience is going to find very be very interested in, and then that becomes your email marketing. That's what you send out to people. Hey. If you I know you guys struggle with this. Here's a whole answer. Here's how one company handled it.

Now your team has a whole bunch of social media to share. They can do those clips, and those video clips are gonna perform way better than anything written. And now you've got content for your blog. And like what we talked about before this, not only do you have SEO from your blog, but now I've got SEO hopefully on YouTube, right, which is a big piece. Now I've got SEO over on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. So when people are searching for certain topics, I've got all these new avenues of where people can find my content. And, again, we're just working with and, but, like, I wanna know too, like, what events do you guys have coming up? What are some other things that we can do? Let's put a live component behind this. How fun would it be to interview people at a conference or put the comp or put the podcast on a stage or, you know, all these different ways you can use it.

And then also being strategic about who you're bringing on as guests. Like, who are you trying to meet with? Who are you trying to get in front of? Let's reach out to them or have somebody from your team trying to find people that would be great, great new contacts. It just it opens up a lot of doors that I don't think peep people are just looking at it from one perspective.

Okay. Wow. You just made my head explode with so many follow-up questions to everything you just said. Let me let me try to organize these. So you talked about events and conferences. Right? So Mhmm. B to b marketing, that is a huge driver of relationship building is being at the annual industry conference that you have to be exhibiting at. Break that down more and explain how you can use a podcast at an event like that to really create some buzz and engagement.

Yeah. So you could a lot of people think the noise is gonna be a lot worse than what it is, but we can help with kinda setting that up where we can reduce it. And I'm not gonna get technical, but you could do it from 1 of 2 ways. Set up podcast episodes where you're like, where you're recording and being like, hey. You know, not just a sales meeting. Right? But, hey. Can you come on the podcast? And you could even put it in an area where a lot of people are gonna see and record it that way. All of a sudden, you're gonna be looked at much differently than, oh, you just have a booth like everybody else.

Right? Everybody like, a lot of people would love to be on that. So you can actually record episodes there. And like I said, set it up in a way you could even at, a lot of expo places, they have, like, little pop up sound booths that you can have that you can have right in the middle of a crazy kind of environment, or you could be off in a room, but, you know, you're working that. Like, hey. We're gonna be there. We wanna record some content. Would you be there? The other thing is, like, pitch the idea of, like, getting up on stage and recording a podcast live. Like, who are those? Like, who's a a great person that you're gonna wanna talk to? And you could even do live recordings.

You could do, an evening kinda live recording event too where you're inviting people to a bar or to somewhere. Like, we've done it in, like, networking type places or, you know, open areas, and just have some fun with it. Like, this is a live event. You're making the audience be a part of it. But there's so many different ways you could spin it where you're getting the exposure for your podcast. And like I said, when you've got 5 other competitors there and you're doing a fun live event or recording podcast episodes, you're just gonna stand out.

Right. Yeah. And that's one of the hardest things and biggest challenges at a conference or a trade show is standing out because it's most people just make that lap around and they don't wanna walk into your booth or really engage with you unless you've got something they can engage with, that isn't necessarily like you've got the putting greens and you've got ring toss and you've got, like, the pop a shop basketball hoop. Those aren't bad ideas. Like, we've definitely helped our clients use those ideas, but I love that it's it actually opens a conversation and breaks down a wall that is just automatically there at an event when you're trying to engage with your audience. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that. What is this? What are you doing? Like, yeah, it totally it's and it's a lot of fun. Like, we used to do a lot of live events for our podcast, and it just was it was a lot of fun. We had a women in tech podcast, and it was we'd bring women together, and it was it can be a you can have so much fun with it.

Yeah. I love it. So another, I guess, area that you touched on in your previous answer was, like, the guest strategy. Right? So Mhmm. So and and I really, like, try to keep all of our content very b to b focused. So it seems to me like immediate resistance that I would hear is, like, well, who would my guest be? Like, I have an industrial manufacturing company. Right? Like, I have a hard enough time getting my customers on the phone or getting in front of them. Like, who would I even have on as a guest? Right? Talk to me about how you develop a guest strategy with your clients.

Yeah. So, you know, it's there's a couple of different ways to approach it. So, you know, even in the example you gave, like, in the industrial, like, obviously, there's, like, a whole group of people that are in the same, same industry you are. So if you're trying to market to them, what are they struggling with? Like, as an example, I just got a, we were talking. We're working on a restructure for his podcast. He is a commercial painter. Like, he goes into buildings and paints. Like, obviously, his topic isn't going to be, like, let's talk about commercial painting every week.

Right? Because there's only so much you can say. But but we talked about, like, who's your audience? Well, who do you, like, who do you get who do you need to get in front of? Well, people who manage HOAs, that's a big one, and, like, commercial, like, apartment builder, like, all this kind of stuff. I'm like, okay. So what do they struggle with? Like, what are those topics day in and day out? That's why CPAs and, like, bookkeepers are great clients for us because they talk about business problems. How do I get my business up for a sale? How do I do that? So if you're from a, like, content perspective, and then it's like, okay. Who are those guests that can talk about this? So the beautiful thing is you don't have to know it. Like, okay. I know my HOA HOA people really struggle with this particular issue.

Let me bring in an expert to do that. So now you're opening the door for strategic partners. Right? Like, who are those people? We share the same audience that now we know each other and we like each other and we're doing this. So that's one way, like, those strategic partners. And then the other way is, like like I had mentioned before, like, from a sales perspective, obviously, you don't wanna get on the call and be like, hey. Can we record something that I just sell to you? But what is it about that that company that's doing really well? So, like, you know, using your company example. So you see alright. We do b two b marketing.

This company has really knocked it out of the park. Like, let's talk to them about how they did it because guess what? All their peers are facing the same struggles that they had or very similar struggles.

Yep.

So by sharing that story, now, hopefully, my content has gone out to other people. Oh, I didn't think of it that way, or should I I didn't even know that we could do that kind of stuff like that. So it's opening doors. So think of it that way too. Like, who are the people you really wanna connect with and get on their radar? And and it's a perfect way to open that door. Sorry. And and then, like I said, they're they're making the content for you.

Right. Yeah. And you're also getting the benefit of learning while you're having that conversation. You know, maybe even things that you you didn't even know or, think about yourself that could then end up helping your your clients in all different conversations you're having with them. What what about a 100%. What about, like because this is something even as as a marketing firm, when people ask us about podcasts, 2 really common questions that come up is, like, how long should they be, and how often should I be podcasting and releasing episodes?

Yeah. So how long is gonna depend? And so, like, for example, I just had a a new client call this morning with somebody, and she was like, we wanna do I don't wanna give away the names. Somebody will steal our name because we're just launching it. But she's like, I wanna do the x the topic minute. Like, the whole top like, the whole thing is gonna be bite size. I know, we have executives driving to work. I'm gonna give them something that they can, like, kind of sit on and and think about as they're on their way to work and help educate them. So that's the whole point of her podcast is, like, a 5 minute blip or 10 minutes blip.

Right? So that's the set. If you are just trying to get at a high level with somebody and kinda just talk, like, 30 minutes is a good like, we're gonna go high level. If you're gonna go deep, 45 minutes. And I think it it I can't tell you one's better than the other because I do listen to Joe Rogan. And there are times that it's a 3 hour episode, and I'm like, oh.

It's over.

Really? It's over? Right?

Right.

And then there's times where I'm listening to a 10 minute podcast, and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, when is it gonna end? So it's really about great content, and it's that focus on content. What I would say, I just had this conversation with somebody, another person this morning where I said and I hate to look at it this way, but it is the name of the it's how the landscape has changed, but think of clippable things too. So, like, as you're setting up questions, as you're setting up conversations, like, what's gonna be, like, good nuggets that we can repurpose and share versus it. And I know, like, there because they were talking about going down this path of questions, and I'm like, you really can't that's not gonna be interesting to clip up. Right? So think of the clip up. Right? Like, if you go in that order. So that's one.

And then it was, what it was

the second question? It was The frequency. Frequency?

Okay. So a lot of people think I need to do weekly, and I've been helping people for 4 or 5 years now. It is very rare for a person doing this on a marketing scale to truly stick with a weekly, week in, week out schedule. It's a lot. It really is a lot. And then the problem I see too is that their team is so wiped out making the podcast that nobody's marketing it. Mhmm. So what I my recommendation is even if it's once a month, start once a month.

I like 2. I really like 2. I think it's a good starter set. It doesn't tax you. It it it's a good getting out the door where if you find, we've got this great groove. We've got so many episodes. Let's add more. You can do that.

But what typically happens is people go out of the gate running. They do weekly. It gets exhausting. They miss that week because the guest, you know, whatever, and then Yeah. It just 7 episodes is your pod fade, so it fades. So I would rather you if you've got a budget set aside for your podcast, you cut that in half. That's your production, and then the other half is going towards your marketing of it. And you can create the illusion that you're out all the time.

Like, you create through your clips and through you fill in that weekly gap with all your clips of your episodes. That's what you're posting on LinkedIn, and people get that illusion you're publishing way more than you are, but you don't have to do all the production work.

That's that is highly appealing too. Just going back to where we started the conversation, we were talking about how it creates content, and it creates those stories that helps your target buyer or your target partner understand how you operate and how you think and how you look at solving problems. Because I couldn't bite off, like, setting aside time to record more than 2 a month. And Yeah. You really sold me when you talked about how we could take a 30 minute episode and make that into so many other bite sized pieces of content. And, I mean, I'm in marketing. Right? I've been a marketing strategist for almost 30 years. Oh, yikes.

For a lot of years. And, That was a hard

to say the numbers. I'm like, I've been doing it

a little. Yeah. Yeah. That hurt a little.

Point too.

But it it's exciting to, like, learn more about how you can use this tool of podcasting to keep that pulse in front of of your audience and using those snackable bite sized pieces of content. Yeah. Not everybody's gonna listen to 30 minutes. Right? Like, not everybody's gonna have the time. Right? Yeah. Go ahead, sir.

Not and that's okay because no. No. No. I was just gonna say, like, totally to your point. It's okay because guess guess who they're thinking about. Even if they're not listening to your full episode, they're thinking about you because they see you all the time. You're creating that illusion of you're you're putting out a lot of content. You're the expert.

You know what you're talking about. And guess who they're gonna think of? Like, the Kelsey Brothers, you know, they've got their podcast is blown up, and they joke. Like, most of our people don't even listen to an episode, but they see the clips on TikTok. Like, that's their whole joke. But you know who the Kelsey brothers are. Right? You know their podcast. They don't care because they've got you know, that's what matters.

Yep. Exactly. And if you're getting quality guests and you're asking quality questions, you're gonna get really good, like, 15 second clips or 30 second clips that does help educate your audience. And and that's you know, for me, at least, that's that's my goal is just trying to help educate that, person who's in a sales leadership role about, like, how can all of these different challenges that I'm facing that hold me back from growing revenue, like, how are ways I can solve that problem and get myself unstuck from wherever I am right now. Right? Because that's that's a horrible feeling to have in any job. Yeah. Yeah.

Well Yeah. And I'll tell you to add to that. So, like, just on the clippable stuff and the eyes and ears on it. Like, as an example, we just launched a show 2 weeks ago now. He has no I mean, we are like when I say we are starting from scratch, it is like the the scratchiest of strat scratch we can get. He ended up leaving a career and kinda had to start over. And so we brought a YouTube channel to the forefront, like, of just life. His the actual episodes that he's published, he's only published 3.

Maybe we're approaching a 100 downloads between those 3.

Mhmm.

He has over 10,000 views already on his channel from the shorts. Wow. So Okay. That, like so, you know, if you want that or and we have not put any money behind this. Nothing. It's just cutting up the shorts from those videos, and that's how he's getting the subscribers and the organic reach. So, you know, that's another way to think of getting the eyes and ears on on what you're doing.

Okay. And I wanna connect the dots on that. Right? So Mhmm. From a marketing goal standpoint or a sales goal standpoint, something we hear a lot is we've gotta build credibility for our company. We need to be viewed as thought leaders. Right? And so to me, the dot connection is, like, well, if you have a bunch of views on a YouTube short about something someone you're you know, in your world and sphere is saying, that directly feeds into your thought leadership. Right? Yeah. Exactly.

That's how you can start to connect those dots between what I have to accomplish in my revenue goals and how a podcast and as part of my digital marketing strategy can help me.

Yep. Yeah. And you talk about that too. Are you familiar with Neil Patel? Do you know who he is? Yeah. SEO guy. Absolutely. He just did a video about 2024, 2024 predictions. And a lot of people this will be another thing people say is everybody's doing a podcast.

Mhmm. No. They're

not. And and I think it's like, I really have to look up, but it's like 20%, 19% of people who actually of the podcast that are out there are active. So for every 5 that start, 4 fall off. Right? So if you actually continue, you're way ahead of the game. And Neil was saying he his 2024, one of his was, podcast is your blue ocean strategy. You wanna be a thought leader. You wanna go. You show the consistency, and then you're using the social to clip up and get in front of people.

That's gonna be a game changer for you. But, again, it's sticking to it, consistency, that those are the big pieces that people miss. Yep.

Yeah. Okay. So let's let's get creative for a second here because I think this could be this could be a fun line of questions. Okay. And I'm throwing a curve ball at Erin here. So Okay. I'm thinking about another goal that a lot of our clients in the b two b space have is is you you know, the best employees, how could a podcast be used to help, reach that goal? Like, give me some some creative ideas there.

Well, I mean, if you're talking about so, a, you're gonna look like you are more cutting edge. Right? Like, you look like you're putting yourself. So to me and I guess it's gonna depend on who you're trying to attract, but that's gonna be of interest for me. Like, I really I can see what these people are about. I can't you know, maybe I it's more than just a glass door lookup. Right? I can actually I see the CEO on a podcast. I think they have a great personality or whatever it is. I like the culture.

I like the atmosphere here. I just, again, it's gonna depend on the podcast you're doing, but it can really give you an inside look into that culture. And hopefully, it does. I, you know, this is one thing I talk about too with people. It's like, don't try it's like a dating app. Don't try to be if you're a little sillier in person or if you're a little don't try to be the perfect buttoned up person, like, show that personality of what it's gonna be like to work with you or work for you. So I think it's a great way to like the thought leadership side. Most people are going to wanna go to a company that's gonna push their resume.

Right? So what are the things that I can do to, like I really love what they're talking about. I'll use AI, for example. A lot of people use AI, but, wow, this, like, seems like a really cutting edge company when it comes to AI, and I really feel like I could evolve my career by working for somebody like this. This is what they live and breathe and talk about. So it's just another great way to showcase, a, your personality and the culture and, b, that that thought leadership is gonna pay off not just from a client perspective, but people are gonna seek that out and wanna work with

you. Right. Yeah. I mean, because top talent, they wanna know, who am I gonna be working with? Like, who do I have to sit with every day, work on projects with, be around. Right? And it gives you another way to show that personality of the company and the company culture, which I think, you know, that is a big challenge in the b to b space is how do I get more engineers on my team that are, like, top? How do I get more facilities leaders? How do I get more of these people in my shop that can help us grow to keep up with all the frontline employees that they're going to be managing. Right? It's it's a huge challenge. Yeah. Now, that leads me to a different question which is around the podcast host.

Right? Do you see a formula or some things that need to be in place, like, for what makes a great podcast host?

Yeah. I think, you know, what I always find the best podcast have is you have structure. You have an understanding of what you want to get out of the conversation. I think it's really important to have that under like, I know we're gonna you know, you and I, Terry, we're gonna talk about this, and I wanna make sure my listener walks away with these I mean, it's action steps or inspiration or understanding, whatever it is, but you have some clarity around what you're doing with that. Mhmm. But then I think a great podcast host allows for the conversation to flow in a way to where you're you're allowing the grace to go down into rabbit holes. And that rabbit hole's in a bad way, but, like, oh, I heard you say something here. Let's, I know this isn't a question on here, but let's go down and have that path.

Yeah.

You talked about Smartless originally, and I know this is 3 guys, but they they said something the other day on an episode where they were like, you know, we feel like the listener. We give them an inside, like, feel of what our friendship is like. And it really is. You get that. And I think those are the best podcast where you're giving people, like, an inside feel. It's not just 2 talking heads, but, hey. I it's kind of fun, like, when you watch a a live fireside chat or live something, you feel like you're part of it. And I think that's what you wanna do as a host is really help to bring that audience, be a part of it, and they're listening.

And you're the worst you thing you can do is just go question by question by question by question because I've had it where, you know, they're listing 10 questions, and we're in this great, like, conversation about question 4. And we're like, woah. Did it go down? And then all of a sudden, they just like, question 5. And you're like, woah. Okay. Okay.

That did not flow.

Yeah. Yes. So allow that flow to happen and, you know, think like your audience. Like, what are they gonna find interesting? What would they wanna know? Like, Terry just kind of gave me this little nugget. What would they wanna know about that nugget? And let me flow down there. But your guest is gonna want structure too for sure.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I mean, so some of the things that you just said, they they sound a little bit intimidating, to be perfectly honest. Right? Like, I'm I'm a well, yeah. Right. So, like, I am an owner of a marketing agency. I have never been trained to be an interviewer. And so Yeah.

A a, you know, kinda like baseline fear that I had to get over is I don't know how to do this. Right? However, I do interview new clients all the time. I interview employees all the time. Right? And I know that what it takes to be successful in those conversations is having a plan and having some structure to the conversation. And so I'd I had to really lean on, like, maybe I know a little bit more than I thought I did. And I'm probably not gonna win any podcast interviewing awards this year in my in my first 1st year, but I feel like you just have to take those skills you learn in a regular conversation into the podcasting interview. Right?

Right. Well and I would so here's where I would argue with you. Well, not argue, but here's how I would push back a little. It's like you had mentioned earlier where it's like, I love to have conversations with industry experts just to talk about where the industry is going. So you already would and you're probably not dominating that conversation and just talking to hear yourself talk. You're you are actively curious and actively listening to learn more from this person. So I would rather have that par parlayed over to a podcast than, well, Terry's gotta be perfect, and she can't let anything go. Do you know what I mean? So it's like

But, see, I think you saying that, like, breaks down a barrier. Right? It's it's not there isn't, like, this limited little number of people who could host a podcast. There isn't a limited team in sales. Like, I see that all the time in sales. Like, you have to have this big gregarious personality to be a good salesperson. No. No. You don't.

Like, you have to be good at listening, asking questions, being curious, and just try to learn. Right? And that's that's the mindset I try to I try to bring into it. But I I know you've told me about some different barriers that kinda prevent people from getting started. And so maybe I can use the question about the host to segue into maybe some more examples of of common barriers or fears that people have.

Yeah. So I feel like we've touched on it, but running out of content is another big fear people have, where one of the things we help with clients is like, we'll go through, and we'll even do this on an ongoing basis. It's not just at the beginning. But we'll go through and see, alright. What are your competitors talking about, and what's hitting really well? And not that you're gonna copy them, but, like, if I asked you, Terry, like, you know, a lot of people are really interested in SEO. It's not like you're gonna go out and watch the video on SEO and copy it verbatim. Right? You're gonna come back and be like, alright. This is what we see.

Like, everybody's interested in this. Let let me tell you what we see. Your top ten questions, all, like, that's you know, you get asked these same questions day in and day out. That's a great list. Right? And then I think when you shift your brain to think of that, like, you were mentioning, like, I have people that tell me all the time, oh, we were sitting here having coffee, and we're like, why don't we record this as a podcast? It's like so you start thinking of that too where you're like, yeah. This would be a good episode, or let's angle it this way. So once you start rolling or or another great way too is every time you bring on a guest, say because 9 times out of 10, this is what I always see. Guest comes on.

They're a little nervous. They're really not sure what to expect. They're like, by the end of it, they are so they're like, this was so much fun. I did not think, like, I'm like and it's like, you guys are, like, really good friends. A great question to ask is, like, hey, do you like, now that you're gonna know what this is, do you have anybody you'd recommend to be on the podcast? Like, anybody you know? Can you make an intro for me? And they're gonna have a couple people. Right? So that's continuing content. So if you can open that door, and like I said, and then continue just to look. Alright.

What are the topics hitting home for people? What should we talk about? What what works really well? What were some of our most popular episodes now that we're 50 in? What changed? Like, what what should we revisit that and talk about, you know, a 2.0 version of it or something like that. So Yeah. You can do things like that too.

Well, you made you had a really good LinkedIn post. I wanna say it was a couple weeks ago about, fears that in it. I think it was even specific about women. Women. Right? Talk about that because I I thought that was a very relatable post. I thought that was so relatable.

So I am so passionate about this, and I really see, like, I just it breaks my heart. Like, I'll get emotional talking about this. But, so I think we, as women, we put the perfection, veil over it. Mhmm. But I always so this is a made up stat, but this is just what I've seen. You get me 10 men who wanna start a podcast and who meet with me and they really wanna do a podcast, more than likely 10 are going out the door. 10 women, maybe 4. And I have seen everything from I've literally had people say, I don't look happy enough.

I don't, like, one just recently, I'm gonna bet a $1,000,000. It wasn't they didn't look like Lewis Howes enough. I'm not I'm not joking. I'm just like but you're just starting. Like, this and I would bet I would be very surprised if it ever comes to life. But it's just like we make up, like, it's not perfect enough. I never see men make those excuses ever. Half the time, my male clients don't even care what's put out.

They're just like, yeah. I recorded greatness. Let's go. Right? Like, they're just cool with it. Where women are, like, we critique it to death, and then we make, we make these excuses as to why it can't be. And it breaks my heart because our voices are just as important. They get worried they're gonna say the wrong thing. And we like I said, we disguise it.

A lot of times, it's not gonna you're not gonna be thinking, well, it's just because kinda nervous to do this podcast. It's all this other stuff that we're dealing with and that we're worried about that gets in the way. The other side of this, I've talked about this a lot too because I never noticed this till I started doing this. I will never when, like, we're doing a batch recording of podcast, I will never put 3 women in a row I don't know. Okay. Because I guarantee you one of them is flaking on me. Like, I will bet money on it every time. Like, I've had, one woman I had found or this one this story, like, hurts my heart.

She I'd found her on Twitter for a client of mine. Mhmm. We connected them. Everything was great. That day, I confirmed with her, hey. You're gonna be there. Yep. Gonna be there.

Great. Okay. And then an hour before, she sends us an email and says, I just took a Benadryl. I'm too tired to get on the podcast. And these poor get like, my poor client had, like, paid for the studio, paid for everything. And what's really sad about the situation is just before she canceled, my client said to me, thank you so much for finding her and introducing us because we don't have anybody who does that, and I think I can refer

her a lot of business. Oh, man. Yeah. And, I mean, I think what I hope, what I hope listeners take out of that is that you, and is, like, encouragement. Right? So you and I are both female biz you and I are both female business owners, female executives, and I I think that it's not a male versus female commentary that I wanna push. It's a, con women. We can do this. Let's support each other.

Let's step step up and get past that fear and take the chance and get get out there. Right? Because because we have something to contribute. We always have, and you can do it in in an office or you can come on and share it with more people because there are people listening who will appreciate it and get a lot of value out of it. Yeah. So I Yeah. I wanna help you push that. I love that.

And like I said, I don't like to get against men versus women too. And I want, like, women when you're when it's per like, when I like I said, when it's this, well, it's gotta be perfect. It's It's gotta be this. It's gotta be that. I really want you to challenge what that excuse is that's causing you to hold back and say screw it and go for it. You know what I mean? Like, it's because it's we mask it like it's this thing, but it never is that thing.

Right. Okay. So we talked a lot about having shareable content and snippets. What do you advise when it comes to, like, should my podcast be audio only, or should it be video and audio?

Yeah. So I would say start where you're most comfortable. There are people who aren't comfortable getting in front of video, and so I would never tell you to do something you're not comfortable with because to me, content is the most important thing or what you have time and money for. So, you know, obviously, to produce an audio podcast is cheaper. So if that's your barrier, start somewhere. Don't not do it. The pandemic really changed everything though from a video perspective. When we went from highly produced, like, it had it was a very fine line on what defined a podcast versus a video, and everything just got really gray really quickly after the pandemic.

Mhmm. So, like, we had this access to record on software and to the clips. Because we make the clips from the audio files for clients, and they just don't perform as well on social media. So we encourage people to, you know, if you're comfortable, only if you're comfortable, or, you know, if you're ready for video, I I would encourage video just from the sake of the clippable side of things, but start where you're most comfortable. Okay. And, you know, it doesn't have to be in a studio. Like, one thing we do, like, I'm pointing to us right now in our computer, but we're recording on, you know, software. But when you're posting it on, like, YouTube or you're posting it, don't make it look just like a Zoom call.

Put movement in. Make it, you know, speakers and then some side by side. Like, put some things in so it's not just a standard side by side type of deal, and I could tell you just put it from Zoom. Focus on some good quality audio. Get a this mic I'm using is, like, a $100. You don't need to invest a lot of money. So a lot of these people get the you know, it's gotta be super high end. No.

It doesn't. Just, you know, start where you are. But I would encourage video, but you don't have to do video. Audio works just as well.

Yeah. I mean, overall, we we talked a lot about different barriers. I think, unfortunately, there are a lot of barriers that could prevent someone from getting started on podcasting. But I think, hopefully, this conversation helps people see, like, there's actually a lot of really easy answers and solutions to those barriers, and it's it's a progress over perfection game. Right? Get to that content. Get to those stories that are gonna help your audience.

Yep. Yeah. A 100%. Like, I started just audio, and it really helped me to talk on the fly and get comfortable with those conversations. Like, if you if you saw my first video, they're awful. Like, they are so awful. Like, I'm like, like, it's so bad. But I you know, but like I said, you'll get better.

So, like, if you know you're like, I am not comfortable doing this right now, like, that's totally cool. But the good news is most of us are used talking on Zoom by now. You know what I mean? So if it's just a Zoom conversation, it just happens to be recorded.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yep. Well, Erin, thank you so much. I have some rapid fire questions to kinda close out our conversation that, hopefully are kind of fun. So the first one and these are things I just love learning about people. So tell me about the favorite, your favorite trip you've ever taken.

Okay. So I grew up on a farm, and so I'm obsessed with animals. So I love to see animals in the wild. Like, I get really excited when I see an armadillo in our neighborhood. So

That is not what was in my head. An armadillo was not in my head when you first said that. Yeah. Okay.

I'm like, oh my gosh. We we named him Artie, and I'm like, Artie is it. I just saw Artie on the dog walk. So, anyway, so just take this with a grain of salt. But, I'd have to say, like, 2 that are combined, it just popped up in my feed. We were going out to Hawaii when the kids were little, and we could break away from school a little bit easier. And going out on these whale watches, which were just magic. Like, I love Maui.

So those or I love Jackson Hole and just going out and, like, we see grizzlies and babies, and it's just it's amazing. And so that kind of stuff is just magical to me, and I don't think it ever gets old. So Yeah. Like I said, I'm I love animals.

Okay. That's there's so many fun places you can go to see animals. Mhmm. If there would be, like, a musical artist or a group, dead or alive that you could see whether it's seeing again or seeing for the first time, who do you wish that would be?

Okay. So I don't want when I say this, I'm gonna preface it with this was pre some stuff. So, I would give anything. The best concert I have ever been to was when Jay z and Kanye West toured together. They had a album out together.

Yeah. And

it was the best concert I've ever been to. Obviously, it's changed a little to wish that back, but I wish, like, old Kanye would come back and perform again.

But it was the best

concert I've ever had.

Not be possible again, but that I thought that was really fun. I thought that was a

lot fun. Amazing. I was, like, 8 months pregnant when I went. Like, I was that girl, but I'm like, I will not miss this.

So did that did that child come out loving jay z or Kanye?

No. He did not. But people were scared I was gonna go to labor from, like, the base of the speakers. I'm like, I'm too I'm totally cool with that at this point. Like, he's baked. Like, we're good, but, like yeah. So, that's But yeah. No.

He's not a Kanye fan. Although I haven't encouraged it either.

You should, like, test putting a Kanye song on and just looking for his reaction to see if there's, like, some bass reaction you're gonna get.

Just natural movement?

Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Books. My question about a book is what's the number one book you find yourself constantly recommending to people?

It changes. This changes all the time. My favorite ever, like, from a money mindset was rich dad, poor dad. It's been around. But I will say my latest one, probably past 8, 9 months, I have referred this out. Book clubs, everything is the gap in the gain. I don't know if you've read

that one yet. I I actually just had another guest tell me the exact same answer. That's so funny.

Really?

I I guess I really need to read this book. Yeah.

It's amazing. And what's funny is, like, you can apply it not just to your business, but every aspect of life. Like, my kids have listened to it in the car with me and my son the other day, like, was he he's like, mom, are you parenting me in the gap, or are you parents me in the gain right now? And I'm like, oh, child. Yeah.

But it's that power against you.

Yes. But it's that mentality of you you can look at a situation from 1 of 2 ways. How are you gonna look at it? And it's been life changing, just from that perspective.

Yeah. Well, I clearly have to get that book. Mhmm. And then my last question is, what is the best job you've ever had?

Oh, well, I should I feel like I should say this one. But I will say for 3 years, it was a blessing and a curse. I did a really large event, like, had Robert Herjavec from Shark Tank large event. And what was really special about I loved doing it. I I had a love hate relationship with it. It was really hard. It was

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