Kim Ware tours and writes music with her solo project, The Good Graces, and in a band, Y'All'Re. Ware shares how she's balancing her work with writing, recording, and weekend touring. Sloane Spencer rants about music promotion companies sending AI pitches, and the importance of building real life community in music. We laugh about music fandom, fangirl encounters with musical heroes, and the moments that remind us why we love making and sharing music. Whether you're an artist, a dedicated listener, or simply love a great conversation, this episode offers an honest, entertaining look at creativity, connection, and the joy of music.

Pin Our Tastemaker Playlists

• Apple Music
• Tidal

Musicians and Venues Mentioned in this Episode

Venues

• Club 27 (Asheville)
• Common Market (Charlotte)
• Cobb Galleria
• Red Light Café (Atlanta)
• Snug Harbor (Charlotte)
• Star Bar (Atlanta)
• The EARL (Atlanta)

Musicians

• The Avett Brothers
• Chickens and Pigs
• David Childers
• Jeff Evans
• Jeff Evans Porkestra
• Jerry Kee
• Kathleen Edwards
• Kim Ware
• Lydia Loveless
• Robert Childers
• Scott Roberts
• Tracy Clark
• Y'all're
• Yo La Tengo
• Yum Yum Tree

Chapters

• 00:00 - Introduction to the Dive Bar Music Club Podcast
• 03:24 - Recording the New EP
• 11:21 - The Challenges of Independent Music Promotion
• 21:43 - The Vibrant Community of Music Scenes
• 30:01 - The Impact of Music: Personal Connections
• 35:39 - The Art of Expressing Appreciation
• 40:32 - Exploring Music Discovery in the Digital Age
• 48:25 - The Journey Through Music and Radio

The Regulars

• Kim Ware
• Sloane Spencer

Recommended If You Like

AI music promotion, Apple Music, Asheville music, Atlanta music scene, Bandcamp, Charlotte live music, Chapel Hill indie music, Common Market Charlotte, creative process, David Childers, DIY musicians, Dive Bar Music Club, EP recording, independent artists, independent music, indie music, live music, local music community, Lydia Loveless, music discovery, music podcast, music promotion, North Carolina music, podcast, record stores, singer-songwriter, Snug Harbor Charlotte, touring musicians, vinyl records, Y'All'Re, dive bar music club, 90s alt rock, emerging songwriters, indie music podcast, music community, live music experience, independent artists, music playlists, music industry insights, songwriting process, touring musicians, music recommendations, music festivals, local music scenes, vinyl records, bandcamp discoveries, music collaboration, songwriter interviews, music promotion, music and mental health

Welcome to the Dive Bar Music Club podcast where the guest hosts drop in and out, but the opinions are always passionate and the playlists loud.

It's like cheers if everyone at the bar had a strong take on 90s alt rock or a suspicious number of burned CDs.

Around our table you'll find an emerging touring songwriter, a former cult band favorite whose work since then is even more interesting, a portrait photographer with a not so secret metal penchant, a record store owner who learned about Swifties the hard way, a retired folk singer who regrets nothing, and a zine maker with more cool music projects than we can count.

We're all just here to share what.

We're currently obsessed with and maybe convince someone that yes, that weird Icelandic synth folk band is worth a listen.

Okay, that last one's probably me, Sloan, Spencer.

It's Dive Bar Music Club Low Key, High Taste Happy hour music nerds.

Hey y'.

All.

Welcome to Dive Bar Music Club.

Low Key, High Taste Music Chat.

And we are hanging out doing one of our little summer catch up sessions.

This time it's just me and Kim where we are recording this just on our phones.

So if the audio quality is slightly different than our usual studio recordings, that's what's going on.

But otherwise it's all good.

So Kim, I basically keep up with your life through social media and your posts.

What you been up to?

Yeah, it's been a fun summer for the most part.

I've been playing a lot, mostly with Yaller, a little bit with my own stuff, going to some shows here and there as I can.

I live at a small lake.

It's really nice, especially in the summer.

It.

It kind of feels like I live at vacation.

I mean, it's great, it really is great, but it's, it's like one more thing to balance in a way, you know, it's like sometimes when the weather like today it's kind of rainy and I find myself being somewhat grateful for those days because it's like, okay, now I can't just go out.

Well, I could but you know, I'm not gonna just go out paddle boarding and then like stay out on the water all day, you know, it sounds like it's a very privileged life and it, I mean I'm very, I'm very fortunate.

It's a little teeny, teeny, teeny lake.

It's not anything big, but it's really and peaceful and so yeah, you know, just trying to balance that sort of stuff with work thing and then I have elderly relatives that I Help take care of.

And so I often feel pulled in many, many directions, for sure.

And yeah, so that can be really challenging.

But at the same time, I'm.

I'm super grateful to have a really full life.

And a lot of that is music and.

And has been music here recently.

So.

Yeah, just doing that.

Doing that whole thing.

Doing all of it.

Well, so one of the things that's fun with when you are talking about the music that you play is that you have two such different outlets that are your primary ways of expressing, and they're both really vibrant.

So I know y' all played out a bunch with y' all through the summer, and you did the cool birthday double bill.

Yeah.

You've hinted a couple times that maybe y' all recorded and have something coming our way.

Did I make that up?

No, you didn't make it up.

You're.

That's very observant of you.

We did.

We recorded an EP with Jerry.

He in Meban, North Carolina.

And I don't know if you're familiar with Jerry, but he would never boast the way that I boast about him.

But he's.

He's amazing.

And he's got such a history and pedigree dating back to like, the late 80s, early 90s Chapel Hill indie scene, for sure.

And.

Yeah, and so we went and recorded with him.

Gosh, it's been, you know, in the spring, like several months ago, and just basically spent like a weekend there and recorded it mostly live, which was a really, really cool experience.

Yeah, it was so much fun.

So that's.

We're shooting to get that out in October.

Oh, that's pretty quick.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we have a lot to do between now and then.

But I mean, it's done.

It's all done and plastered and everything.

So it's just working out the.

All the.

The artwork and all that stuff.

And then we're planning a tour around the.

Like, I think our first shows around the.

Right around the 20th.

Something.

Something right around the end of October.

And.

Yeah, just like a week.

A week long thing.

But, you know, we're doing all of this by ourselves, so it's a lot.

But it's been going well so far, and I think the tour is coming together, so.

So, yeah, so that's been keeping me really busy.

We had a show just a few days ago at Snug harbor, one of my favorite venues in Charlotte.

I love that place.

It's great, isn't it?

Yeah.

So that was super fun.

And then we're playing it.

I Think it's called Club 27.

I've never been there.

It's a venue in Asheville this weekend.

We're playing there Friday night, and then I play in Salisbury Saturday morning at the Farmer's Market.

So I'm sure this will probably be out after all that.

But that's just an example of, like, that's kind of the stuff I'm balancing is like, I have a late Ish for me because I'm old.

Friday night show with y' all and then come back and get up pretty early the next morning to go to Salisbury to play my acoustics.

Sad.

You're like, the only thing on my rider is a gallon of coffee.

Seriously.

I know, I know.

I don't do much of that because it's challenging, but.

Yeah, it just happened to work out that way for this weekend.

Heading you back the right direction, sort of.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it'll be good.

Like, whenever I do that, like, have a whole weekend where it's like all I did really was music.

I mean, like, when we recorded, it feels great.

I mean, it's just to be able to just focus on that for even.

Just like a day or two at a time is nice.

So, yeah, I mean, it is.

Like you said, they're two.

They're two very different animals in so many ways.

And they.

Both of them have been pretty active here lately.

Y' all are more than my own stuff because when it's my own, I feel like I can just.

I could put the brakes on anytime I want to.

Sure.

And when.

When it's like when I'm one fourth of an entity and they rely on me, then I feel like I want to make myself as available as possible, and I love doing it.

That makes perfect sense.

A little side note, because it's stuck in my head, so.

Meban, North Carolina.

Just for FYI, for people not from around here, it looks like me Bane when you're reading it.

So that's like.

It's one of those insider, like, how you can quickly tell if you're not from there sort of things.

Yeah, I'm surprised.

I guess.

I guess I got it right, having gone there enough over the years.

But, yeah, it does look.

It looks like me Bane.

I'm.

I'm a visual learner, and so it's always makes me laugh when things.

And I love it, like, in a good way, when things are pronounced locally very differently than whatever it looks like on the.

On paper.

And so it sticks out both in music and in travel and all that sort of Stuff.

I'm always, always entertained by that.

But.

So it's cool that y' all are.

Literally, y' all are.

I didn't even mean that one.

I know I couldn't have planned that if I tried, so.

But with y' all are it.

You know, you're.

You've got the record finished, which is amazing.

And I think that that's the part that a lot of folks don't realize about getting an independent record out is the hard work comes after that.

It's all the other stuff related to getting the record to people in different ways, both live and digitally, and if you choose to do physical and just all of that stuff.

And the thing that I may have mentioned on this podcast before, that I am suddenly getting inundated with as someone who.

So I've retired from radio, but a lot.

I'm still on a lot of lists, and people think I still do it.

So I have been getting the worst AI PR pitches from a couple of different companies, and I really feel for the independent artist who thinks they're getting some sort of great treatment by paying some of these companies.

There are great radio promoters.

I am not putting that down.

But if you're looking to hire somebody, you want them to have worked directly with someone you personally know, because no matter what the big names are that they put on, whatever they put out there on the Internet, you don't know what quality of work they're going to give to you.

The independent artist, these last three months especially, I have gotten the worst pitches.

And I honestly, it's not my role to contact the artist directly and be like, dude, stop giving this person your money.

But, you know, they're getting taken and you feel terrible as someone on the other side of it when people who are working very hard to get their art out into the world are clearly.

Getting taken advantage of.

Man, I hate that, because.

Yeah, you're right.

It's like, I've done it both ways.

I've hired people to help me get the word out about my music, and I attempted to do it myself.

And, yeah, it is so expensive.

And especially with my.

Well, with both of them.

I was gonna say with my solo stuff, but really with both musical projects, we're very.

I don't know.

Everybody wants to say this about their stuff, I'm sure.

And they wouldn't be wrong.

Like, it's very.

We put a lot of ourselves into it.

Absolutely.

You know.

Yeah.

And, like, I mean, I've often thought, like, shoot, if I'm an introvert, and when I Meet new people.

Sometimes it's like, I don't know, like, what.

What do I say about myself?

And sometimes it's like, here, listen to this.

This is me.

You know, and so then to think that.

That it's treated in a way where you're just gonna feed it into the machine and have it.

And I mean, I know that it's like it's coming from things that humans did currently.

Right, Right.

Because it's still becoming a thing.

But I don't know, Sloan, I could be on this soapbox for hours because it really.

It really has been bothering me because I think some things should be challenging, some things should take thought, some things should be.

You should look at it and be like, oh, my goodness, I don't know if I'm going to get this done.

But we figure it out, because that's what.

And I believe that's how it should be, you know?

And so it's bothering me that more and more it seems like people are resorting to.

Yeah, but I can save time to do it.

And it's like, sure, yeah, you can say, what you gonna do with that time?

What you gonna do with that time?

You're probably gonna like, scroll on, you know, like, so.

Yeah, I don't know.

Not a fan if you can't tell.

On the flip side, another thing that has popped up in a positive direction recently is these little bitty record stores that also have listening rooms and.

Or like a tiny, high quality audio cafe.

And I am shocked at the very small towns that have some of these places.

And I'm like, this is kind of cool.

Yeah, that is really cool.

And my hope is that we'll see more and more of that because, yeah, there's a. I mean, there's a backlash to everything for sure.

And so that's great.

Yeah.

That reminds me, I'm glad you mentioned that because I saw like an Instagram post of one of those that opened up recently in Charlotte, and I made a point like, oh, I gotta go check that out.

And of course it entered my brain and then left it.

There's one about an hour for me in Hartsville, South Carolina that just opened.

I haven't been yet, so I can't speak for it, but I was like, Hartsville, of all places, like, it's a small town.

Yeah, that's so cool.

Yeah.

So I'm just kind of like, huh.

And I. I guess the first place I heard about, like, the vinyl audio listening room concept was when Charles was talking about partnering with one for his record Release, you know, the record club that he does.

And I was like, oh, interesting.

And I started looking into it and I realized there were a few of those, and I went to one up in Hillsboro that was very cool.

I had a great time, some great experience.

That's awesome.

I love Hillsboro.

Yeah, what a cool place.

I had never been there.

I'd been to Chapel Hill, but really?

No, it was amazing.

Oh, it is.

That's my.

Like, that has long been probably my.

My favorite town in.

In North Carolina.

If I gambled in one, I.

That's where I'd move.

Yeah,.

For sure.

But, yeah, I mean, I see.

It's nice to have stuff on the horizon.

It's nice to know that there's a plan and it's moving forward.

And even though the process is not like, it's not like there's one way to move forward, it's kind of fun to be moving forward and seeing where it goes and enjoying that.

Yeah, you're right.

And it is, you know, living in this strange, maddening, often distressing world.

I think more and more I'm like, I was kind of talking to my husband about this the other day.

It's like we both get kind of down about everything, you know, like, you can't look at your phone anymore without hearing that.

Like, oh, if you say something that's anti fascist, then you might get.

I'm like, what, What?

What?

Right.

This is ridiculous.

Right?

Yeah, it's like.

It's like, yeah, it's like Black Mirror or something.

It's like, this is real.

You know, Is this even real?

And so I'm like, at least, like, we still have so many good things.

Like, I'm still so fortunate that I still have music, primarily, and just some.

A job that's rewarding and my health and all those things.

And it's like I'm trying just to really, really remain focused on that.

And you're right.

I mean, I think having some sort of, like, creative project that you can kind of just see it through to completion and then putting it out in the universe.

Well, it's critical for my sanity right now.

And I think a lot of people's.

Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

It's interesting because, you know, thinking back to, like, when the pandemic first started and people were like, oh, we're going to get so much great art out of this.

And what really happened was a lot of people turned inward and stopped.

And I think what I'm seeing now is more now it's all coming out because everything externally is really bad.

And so it's interesting to see how that's impacting.

Hopefully what will be better days down the road.

Because current status is nuts.

I was talking with a high school friend recently and I was like, you know, I never really expected to be a person who was like, very vocally like that entire entity of the government.

And I was talking about ice is.

I was like, I. I just didn't ever expect to be like that entire concept.

The whole thing is evil.

And I just was on this road.

I was like, I just.

I just didn't think we'd be here.

And the naivete and the privilege that it took to not think that was huge.

I know.

So, yeah, yeah.

It's mind boggling it really.

But then at the same time, it's just like that.

That you see all the time.

Wow.

If only we would have known, right?

Right.

If only we had some sign, you know, it's like.

I'm a gallows humor and a gallows laugher.

So, like, I get it.

Yes.

I'm not.

I'm not belittling it.

That's my response.

No, I know.

I also curse your.

My mad.

So, you know, whatever, like needle redone.

Here we are.

But yeah, but.

So, like, I'm excited for you to have this coming our way.

And I like what you all are going to be sharing and I think that it'll be content that matters for people.

And just the experience of getting to go see live music that's really putting it all out there as a fan is really important as well.

Not just for the folks who are creating it, but I think it's important to show up in real life and have that community experience.

Even if it's like five other people there, like you're that handful of people, have a shared music experience that is really valuable.

Yes.

I think that's so beautiful.

We went, just speaking of community, it reminded me of this.

We went out on, my husband and I and a friend, I think it was Saturday night to Common Market.

There's several locations.

We went to one of the ones in Charlotte and David Childers played with his trio.

What a cool man that was.

It was so great because it's like.

Are you familiar with the Common Market?

Those stores?

So, I mean, it's.

It's like a little grocery store slash bar, like bodega stuff, you know, like very small.

I met my husband in the back of a grocery store bar.

I've never been to this one, but I get the vibe.

Yeah, that's so cool.

But yeah.

So they played there and they just set up in the middle of the store right on the floor, and it was really cool.

It was my first time that I had been to that particular location.

I was really taken by recognizing now that I've seen David a number of times, and he's so beloved in North Carolina and in the region.

Just a legend around here.

Yeah.

That you see a lot of the same people at his shows now.

Now, you know, and it's a like.

Oh, I mean, I'm in my early 50s.

It's, you know, people like mostly my age and a bit older and.

And that's nice to see that, like.

Oh, yeah, we can still, like, go out and have fun.

Yeah, please.

Yes.

I feel this.

Yeah, for sure.

But yeah, it was just.

It definitely was that kind of vibe.

Just like, upbeat community.

Like, we're all there for the same reason to, like, enjoy this music and see this, like, area talent that we all just really love and appreciate.

And it was.

It was a really, really great night.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

And he was very, very sick a while ago, so that is just awesome to have him out playing again.

It is.

Yeah.

He's been playing a lot here.

Here lately and.

Cool look.

Sounds really good.

And yeah, he's got a great band.

His son Robert plays drums and.

And sings with him a good bit too.

And Robert has such a neat voice.

And just seeing them together is like.

It's just.

It's really sweet.

It's so cool.

And I still miss it every day.

And it's taken me a while to feel like, oh, this area has.

Has that too.

Yes.

And I mean, I think most places do sometimes it's not that easy to find, but I think once you do, it's.

It's amazing to be able to just go out.

I mean, that was a free show.

Like, we gave them a tip.

Right.

And so, like, just to go and not have to pay the corporate entity that's like Ticketmaster like a hundred and something dollars or whatever.

You know, it just like to go and hear awesome music.

Like, I mean, he played for a few, probably two and a half hours or so.

Yeah.

I mean, it's not just up the road for me.

I mean, we're about like 30 some miles from Charlotte, but still, that's not, you know, for many People, it's like, you know, they just went up the road to a grocery store.

I think that's amazing.

That is incredible.

Absolutely.

And to me, having been in the Carolinas for a really long time, but I'm also from Atlanta.

You know, it's funny.

Atlanta has a bunch of different, really tight music scenes, and then there's kind of the broader music scene.

But it's funny, even now, after.

I haven't lived there in decades, and there are certain venues that I will go back to, and there are people that I know, and it blows my mind.

I mean, we're talking.

I haven't lived there in maybe 30 years.

I will walk into Starbar, and there is guaranteed some person that I personally know, and it blows my mind every time.

That place wasn't even around before, but, like, it attracts some of those same folks.

And so if I go, if I buy a ticket to a show there, I'm guaranteed to run into someone I know, and it's just amazing.

Yeah, you're right about the community aspect, though.

That's really cool.

Yaller is playing in Atlanta at the end of this month.

There's something called the Southern Fried Gaming Expo.

Yeah, yeah.

Up at, like, the Cobb Galleria.

And we.

We're kind of in that.

I think we sort of appeal to that scene because we have a song about D and D. And so we're playing at that.

That's the.

Whatever the Friday is at the very, very end of July 31st.

And then I'm playing at Red Light just, like, a couple of weeks later on August 16th.

Yeah.

My friend Jeff Evans is.

And you might be familiar with Jeff or like, his circle.

Jeff Evans, Chickens and Pigs.

I do not know Jeff Eppen.

Yeah, Jeff has been around a long, long, long, long time.

He lived in East Atlanta for a while, and so, you know, he was regular at the Earl and places like that.

And Jeff was one of the first people that I met when I moved to Atlanta.

I met someone that plays in his band often.

Yeah, her name's Tracy Clark.

Like, she was actually, like, the first person I met in Atlanta.

Like, not, like, at, like, a job or something.

You know, like, the first person that I.

And, like, becoming friends with, and she introduced me to Jeff, and they needed a drummer.

Yeah.

So I joined his band.

Chickens and Pigs, for several years, played with him, and now he.

I think he still does.

I'll have to ask him exactly what the status of each of his entities is, but, like I was gonna say, I think he does.

Chickens and Pigs still Some, I mean, they're.

He's chickens and pigs.

It's like, it's been like 30 something.

Last I heard.

It's probably up to 40 something now.

Different people that have played a role in chickens and pigs over the years.

But it says, you know, he writes all the songs, sings them, plays guitar, all that.

But anyway, he has a new project, new ish.

Called Jeff.

Jeff Evans Porchestra.

Okay.

Keeping the.

Yeah.

Yes, yes, yes.

And so he is releasing a new album and I'm going to open for him at Red light on the 16th.

Yeah.

And I've been listening to his.

He let me have listened to, you know, in advance of it actually being released and it's so good.

It's.

It's really, really, really great.

So I'm super proud of him and really honored to.

To be involved.

That's so exciting.

That's so cool.

Yeah, yeah.

Atlanta, the Atlanta folks is, you know, still very near and dear to my heart.

And I've been listening to a lot of Atlanta stuff here recently also.

I was just gonna say when what's on?

What's in your ears?

That's related to that.

Yeah, for sure.

So, I mean, Jeff, that I just mentioned, another friend of mine, Scott Roberts, who has also been around for a long time and he's super talented songwriter, guitar player.

He recently moved to Athens, but.

And he's not one to like play out all that much.

I learned of him through.

We were in a Facebook group called Theme Music that has a whole bunch of members and we post songs related to like a specific theme every couple of weeks.

Yeah, and that's like we perform the songs, not just like, hey, here's a song.

You know, it's like we posted a video of us either playing a cover or we write a song.

What is right way to challenge your thinking musically on a recurring leisure.

I love that I have written.

Yeah, I've written so many songs that came from prompts from theme music that like ended up on my albums and stuff.

So, yeah, for sure, that's been great.

But yeah, anyway, that's, that's how I know of Scott.

And he recently released I think this is such a cool concept.

So you know Yola Tango's fake book album.

Okay, so Scott released Fake Fake book.

And yeah, it's him doing like, I guess probably about maybe 3/4.

I think he noted like the percentage is maybe 60 something percent or something like that of that album.

And he made a cover that was like an homage to the actual cover.

And anyway, he just did all the songs mostly acoustic and he's great and it's really cool.

So that's just.

I think it's only available on Bandcamp.

Right.

Love it.

Yeah.

Encourage you to check that out.

I've really been enjoying that.

And then some of my very, very closest friends in Atlanta, they're called the Yum Yum Tree.

They released an album back in April.

Ish.

I think it's called Turn down the Noise.

And it's amazing.

It turned out so great.

You know, I listened to it a lot before it came to be.

That's always fun.

Yeah.

Andy, the primary writer and she sings and plays bass in the band.

She's one of my very best friends and she had sent that.

They recorded a ton of songs.

Like, they had probably, no, maybe close to easily 20 something songs to choose from.

Wow.

Yeah.

And so she sent it to me and some others like, you know, help us pick what the album will be.

Right.

So.

So I was listening to it a lot before it came out.

Kind of just helping her sort of arrange like the order of songs and everything.

And recently kind of dove back into that.

And I'm like, I don't know, it makes me so happy and just proud when my friends make something.

But I choose to put on.

You know how it is.

We used to have this joke of ggbb, which was good guy, bad band.

And so, my God, when you have friends who are putting out things that you actually want to listen to just because it's a different kind of, like, fabulous.

It's so exciting.

Yes, it is so exciting.

And yeah, I think, like, those three here recently, I mean, I could go on and on about Atlanta and all my talented friends, but they, they've recently, you know, put out something that, yeah, I. I put on just because I'm like, oh, I feel like listening to this now.

It could be just like me putting on, like, Kathleen Edwards or Lydia Loveless or whoever, you know, it'.

I'm choosing to listen to this because it's freaking great.

And.

Yeah, yeah, that's been awesome.

Total loose association here.

But.

So I. I don't know Lydia Loveless.

We do have people in our group who are good continental friends with her, but I've enjoyed following her in her social media recently where she's been talking a little bit more about doing some producing for folks.

I would love to chat with her just to hear how that's bringing different creative things for her.

Like, I. I find her very interesting in interviews that I.

From many, many years ago, all the way through Now?

Yes.

You should probably reach out to special guests.

I'm like, we love a special guest.

She'll just pop in one day.

You know, I don't really know her, you know, personally, I've followed her for a really long time also, and she is definitely one of my favorite writers of all time.

She's.

Yeah.

I just.

I love everything she does.

She's been.

You've probably seen, like, she's been playing more piano here the last few years with her own stuff and all of that.

And.

Yeah.

Her stuff is just.

It's so personal and emotional.

And, like, I remember when her album Real.

That.

That one.

Yeah.

When that came out, that's probably still my favorite, I guess.

And I don't know what was happening with me at that time.

I don't know if it just, like, reminded me of my own divorce.

I'm not sure.

But I remember, like, you know, how the first time you hear something.

Yeah.

And how, like, there's not many albums where I can tell you where I was, whatever.

But I know.

But exactly the feel.

If you can remember that, then obviously, like, that was a big impact.

Right.

And that's how, like, I freaking remember the first time I listened to that album.

I can see myself sitting at my dining room table in Atlanta, and it was the weirdest thing.

Like, I literally felt kind of physically, like, unnerved, almost a little nauseous.

And you might think, well, why in the world would you enjoy.

But it was that, like, it hit me.

Yes.

It hit me.

And I can't really even recall another album affecting me, like, quite that way.

Yeah.

And I bet I listened to that album after I got past that initial nausea.

I think I listened to that album every single day for, like, the next year or so.

Wow.

I know.

It was good.

That is a deeply personal.

Nice review for a record.

I know.

I promise I'm not a stalker or anything.

Like, I just love.

I mean, it was.

Yeah.

I think she's.

She's amazing.

I just love.

I love that kind of stuff where it's like, you listen to it and it's like, oh, wow.

This almost sounds a little bit like something that they might not have been able to just sit down and tell somebody.

Yep.

But they were able to find a way to express it that way.

Yeah, absolutely.

I recently had the experience of going to a festival that I go to all the time, and I ran into some musicians that I have known over the years, for many years, but I have not seen in person in a long time.

And one of Them in particular.

I had to like restrain myself from being like, remember your record three records ago?

Well, I listen to that one all the time and whenever I'm having a really hard time, I really, really like that particular record.

But I wasn't gonna into that and be a weirdo, but I really wanted to just be a weirdo.

Even though I know the person too well to be a weirdo like that.

Oh my God, they would appreciate it so much though, like to know that like.

No, that like creating something that touches somebody that deeply.

I think as long as you, you know, don't wake them up at 3:30 in the morning standing by their bed to tell them that,.

Well, so I was laughing at the beginning when you were talking about being an introvert because I'm a super introvert in real life.

Like my entire extroversion is related to a microphone and I love a microphone.

I love being on the stage.

I like a big crowd versus a small crowd.

But one on one I'm weird because I don't know what to say and I'm awkward and then I say dumb things and I don't mean to say them and I can't take them back.

Second.

So yeah, so like that's why I was like, okay, we're just not going to say this about this record and we're just going to be normal.

Like pretend to be normal.

He's pretending to be normal.

We need to come up with like the perfect thing to say when you see a musician that you really like their record so that you don't come off as a creeper because it's not meant that way at all.

Because music touches people so deeply.

I think a lot of people have a relatable feeling like that of not wanting to come off as a weirdo because they don't mean it that way.

But if you really say how much the music actually meant to you, you do come across as a weirdo, I guess.

But okay, so think about this though.

Maybe the person that also made that and likely did like put their heart on their sleeve and probably did.

Speaking for myself, but surely I'm not the only one.

Probably did put something out there where it's like they didn't think they'd ever even be able to talk about that thing, so they share that with you and they share that weirdness.

Like they probably feel like they feel pretty freaking weird about it,.

I hear.

No, seriously though, I get it.

That's why it's so much fun to have folks from different perspectives with this particular Podcast.

Because, you know, I'm sure that you have had the experience of having the fan who meant well, who came across as a weirdo, and I don't have that as a musician, but I was in radio forever, and we do public appearances a lot, and, boy, people have a whole idea of who you are when they listen to you on the radio every night for 20 years, and then the first time they meet you, and they say very strange things.

And sometimes I don't mean to be as weird as they come across.

No.

Right.

Or maybe they do.

Then you get a restraining order.

But other than that.

There you go.

Yeah.

All right.

You're right.

We're so is kidding.

But I'm not.

Believe me, I know.

Sure.

Yeah, sure.

Oh, my gosh.

Too funny.

So quick short therapy session for everybody right there.

So now you know.

You can express your extreme appreciation for a record without being a weirdo.

You just have to practice in the mirror ahead of time.

Yes.

No, I mean, I know that I'm with you.

Like, I can be so super awkward, and a few instances stand out that I don't want to go into because it's super embarrassing.

Yeah, we're like.

Over the years, it's like, I have.

I.

Really.

Not overly gushing or whatever, and I can't imagine they even remember it, because that's the thing, right?

Like, we look back and we remember these little moments, and it seems like, oh, my God, I made such a fool of myself.

And, like, all of that.

Right.

But, like, they're not gonna remember it.

And I think it's also like a pretty.

I don't know, maybe that's like a universal thing.

Right?

Like, if you really feel passionate, passionately about something, then that's part of it.

Like, it's.

It's hard to put it into words, you know, and it might make you feel like all the things, including, like, small and embarrassed or, you know.

Yeah.

And I don't know, there's.

I wish I could find this podcast.

Maybe you can help me.

No, I mean, maybe.

Maybe this sounds familiar to you?

I don't remember what podcast it was, but.

Gosh, probably about 15 years ago.

Okay.

When I was in Atlanta, I was listening to some podcasts.

So it's one of the ones that have been around a while.

Right.

Or at least was around then, but the Abbott brothers were on it.

Yeah.

And it was just one of those interview podcasts, and one of them said something.

They were kind of talking about this sort of like just the making art.

That's, like, really really personal.

And I don't remember exactly what he said, but I took what he said, and in summary, he said, art is embarrassing.

Ooh.

I kind of like that.

I loved it.

I wrote it on.

I had, like, a chalkboard in our kitchen, and I wrote it on there all pretty and arty, you know, and that was kind of like my mantra for a while.

Because, like, if you're not putting yourself out there enough to potentially be embarrassed, you're not putting yourself out there.

Think of.

Yeah, I'm saying.

I'm thinking it out loud as it comes out of my mouth.

I'm that.

Right.

This is interesting to think about.

I know.

I like this.

I do.

I love it.

And my husband and I, in many, many ways, we could not be more different.

So just to give you.

I guess, to play devil's advocate, for lack of a better term, I'm a Gemini, so I tend to do that.

But I shared that with him, and spoiler alert, like, he kind of shit all over it.

Well, because he happens to be one of those that.

I think.

I don't know if he would describe himself this way, but the stage and creating music.

And creating.

But especially music.

That is a place that, for him, that is confidence.

So I think.

Yeah.

So I think he has a hard time seeing it that way.

I think he might.

And maybe others might see that as, like, a thing where it's like, well, you know, just.

Just keep doing it.

Eventually you won't.

Eventually you'll get comfortable with it.

But maybe, you know, I think, like, everybody's different.

But I mean, for me, and I think for a lot of us, it's.

Maybe it's my tendency towards acceptance and commitment therapy.

That's like, this is what it is.

Like, just accept that.

This is like, I'm.

Except like I said earlier, like, I'm awkward getting embarrassed about.

Like, that's.

That is a fact, and it's become a fact.

And so it's like.

Or at least in my mind, it is.

But I'd rather just accept and, like, lean into that than be like, oh, you know what?

If you do it enough, Sloan, if you go talk to them, you won't feel awkward.

Right?

Exactly.

So I don't know.

Takes all kinds, I guess, is my point.

Right.

Yeah, it does.

And that's true.

Yeah.

I'm going to be thinking about this in, like, three months from now.

I'm going to have big thoughts about this.

That's how I operate.

I got to ponder stuff for a while, and then I kind of go around in circles, and I come back to how I.

How I really think about it.

It takes me a while.

Me too.

Yeah, for sure.

Interesting, interesting, interesting.

Also, I have been trying to lean into the kimware approach to finding new music, but as I've said before, I use Apple Music, and Apple Music's algorithm does not understand me at all, which it's the only streaming music I've ever used, so you would think it would understand my listening habits a little better.

But I tried in desperation this weekend.

I was saying earlier that we had almost 20 hours of driving this weekend, so I was like, okay, here's what we're doing.

We're going to listen to this particular playlist, then we're going to just let it pick songs.

It was off on, like, metal, new metal, like, the screamo stuff that they play in, like, Steroid Gems.

It was so far away from anything that speaks to me on any level.

And it was like, why does it not understand me?

Kim gets great stuff on title.

This isn't fair.

Yeah.

And that.

That is sad.

And I. I have not relied on the Apple Music algorithm all that much, but I will say that.

So my, like, Gemini birthday show thing that I did, I made a playlist on Apple Music to play between bands, and then at the end of the night, like, dancy stuff from the 70s to present.

So it was a lot more mainstream stuff, you know, then.

Then I typically would listen to.

So for a while after that, that was my algorithm on Apple Music, you know, so.

So it was a good.

That was a good bit different.

But title still.

Still does me pretty good.

You know what I did this morning, though, and I'm glad you mentioned this, because sometimes I've been thinking about just the.

The way that I do consume, use it, trying to be a little bit more intentional, supporting some of the smaller guys.

And so this.

I'm a little bit embarrassed to say that I have been a fan of band camp for so many years.

I love it and.

And I have so much stuff up on it myself of my own stuff, but.

And I have the app on my phone, but I so rarely think about it.

Right?

And I don't.

I don't know what made me think about it this morning, but I pulled up the Bandcamp app and just started playing, like, Front, I guess.

It plays like their.

Their most recent new and notable.

It says featured stuff.

And I heard some really, really cool stuff that, like, I know I wouldn't hear otherwise.

Right.

You know, so I'm thought to do that in a long Time.

I'm gonna try that as well.

I do have it.

I just haven't thought about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I'm gonna try.

I'm gonna try to spend more time doing that sort of thing because.

Yeah.

I mean, the convenience of streaming and all that is something that.

I can't really deny that.

No, but there's something to doing something where it maybe takes a little more effort.

And again, kind of like we're talking about AI stuff.

Yeah.

But anyway, like, granted, Bandcamp is like, that's streaming.

But at least like it's gonna.

It's gonna likely expose you to something where.

Yeah, you're not gonna hear it anymore for sure.

Anywhere else Bandcamp than anything else in terms of buying physical content and digital, but mostly physical.

Yeah.

I have a whole thing like I listen to at least one vinyl record every day and I, you know, I like to pull out something and I will listen to it multiple times each day.

And I like, I enjoy the process, what I do when I drink my coffee in the morning, blah, blah, blah.

But when I.

Because I live in the middle of nowhere, I do consume a lot of streaming audio because I listen to my car and I just hadn't thought to use my Bandcamp really so much.

But you know, I've like, over the years, I've liked enough bands and followed enough bands through that app and purchased a mountain of music through it that I would imagine it's probably going to bubble up some stuff that is closer to my actual taste.

Because if you put your money forth towards something before they had the player available, it would, you know, make recommendations based on what you liked and those were always on point.

Very rarely did it send me astray.

Yeah, you know, I'm.

And I'm looking.

See, I.

Again, I hadn't looked at it in so long and I'm sure they change it, you know, from time to time.

But like right now it's got features like when you go to the app across the top.

And I'm curious if that featured.

If it is personalized or if like, you know, I don't, I don't know.

I'd be.

I'd be curious if yours is different than mine or.

I used to know how their business and, and public facing structure worked, but they've been bought out a couple of times since I direct knowledge, so I don't know how it works now.

Yeah, I'm not sure, but it's like there's a.

There's a.

Then there's a music feed where I'm scrolling through and I'm saying, I guess.

I guess people I'm connected to or something.

But it's.

Well, it's got like, people that bought things that I've bought also.

And so, like, that could be a neat way.

That's a pretty good connection because, like, if someone else is willing to put their money forth towards the same band that I was willing to do, so, like, we obviously have something in common, you know.

Totally.

Yeah.

So that could probably be a good way to find stuff.

I am amazed.

So I have two charity compilations that I produced that are on bandcamp.

And I mean, I.

Yeah.

And we still see charitable sales through that, which blows my mind.

And it is mind boggling to me.

And, you know, it's a trickle, but a trickle is a trickle.

And it's.

It's a fascinating concept to me that the longevity that sometimes pops back up because there's no way people would.

Most of the bands that participated are the niche of the niche of the niche.

Like, people would not know who they are.

And it's amazing.

No, it really is.

I mean, that's one of the good things about it, about, you know, the Internet and for music is like.

Because I know.

I mean, people have heard my music in countries that, like, I'll never go playing and.

Yeah, and I think, yeah, that's.

That's super cool that you're still.

And who knows how they're finding it.

No, but, yeah, somehow they are.

But, yeah, you mentioned, like.

But to me, it's like the buying vinyl over band camp, you know, and then getting like the download.

It's.

That's kind of the pinnacle of like, supporting an independent artist and, like, having a real listening experience, you know, with music.

Because, yeah, I love with you on the vinyl thing, I was.

I was listening to a lot more vinyl this winter, I guess, because I was in the house more.

But, yeah, that's another thing that I'm trying.

It's like, oh, I need to just put on vinyl more because things become just like, background.

And I think that's what I was doing with my music, listening a lot here lately.

And I didn't.

I didn't like that.

It's like, I want to know what is.

What is this?

What am I listening to?

Where are they from?

And there is a time and a place for the background.

Like, that's totally okay.

But Yeah, I hear you on that.

Sometimes I want to be a little more aware and intentional about what it is and how it got there.

And, you know, and then I end up on the rabbit holes of needing to know who all these people are, how they're connected.

Well, yeah, you got to know where they are.

So you show up to their house and professional undying love to them.

I heard you like peanut butter.

How are you?

I made you cookies.

It's so creepy.

Is it, Nevis?

I would never do that.

I'm just joking.

So I'm like, for real?

I would never, ever.

Never, ever.

It is super creepy.

Although, back to the whole radio thing.

We used to have people who would make food for us and, like, bring it to us when we would be out at remotes or whatever.

There is not enough money on the planet where I am eating food that some rando brings to me at a public event.

Yeah, that's a good point, because I'm thinking, oh, that's sweet, but yet not thinking that, oh, they made it.

It's not like it's like, yeah, right.

So I gain homemade Halloween candy.

That's not happening either.

Yeah.

I don't want to find out you put, like, a pound of baking soda in here so that my stomach rumbles for four days.

But we will reiterate, nobody's putting free drugs in your Halloween candy, people.

Sorry.

That's, like, my pet peeve.

Every year, the local news will be like, inspect your kids candy for drugs.

I'm like, nobody's giving your kids free drugs.

It's not happening,.

Basically, in this economy.

Right?

Ridiculous.

I don't know that we covered anything.

We were supposed to cover today.

We did.

No, I think.

I think we covered.

I think we covered everything.

Pretty much everything.

Pretty much, yeah.

Like, I don't know, like, what else is there to possibly say?

Solo music.

We got your band.

We got mental health care.

We got being a weirdo.

We covered making art and the how you feel making art.

We've done all the important stuff.

We've got into politics.

We've talked about drugs.

We've got everything.

Play cast says everything.

I was in radio.

I used to host a show that was called Sex Drugs in Rock and Roll.

And my favorite part about it was that it was actually talking.

The entire thing was talking about ways to have safe sex on the radio in a very way that it didn't seem like that's what I was talking about.

And I was so proud of myself after every that.

I was like, look what I did today.

I was like, I don't know that any person really got what it was I was sharing, but it was the best.

I was like going out on a hundred thousand watts of a classic rock station at night.

I was like, I cannot believe they.

Haven't fired me yet.

This is the best.

Wow.

I did it for like 13 years.

Hilarious on that particular high.

That's amazing.

Do you have recordings of any of your shows?

I honestly don't know if I do or not.

I was primarily in country radio.

That was so I was on.

I was live on the airing country, and then my classic rock was a recorded show because, you know, you always had to voice track a second station and have recordings of the country stuff, but it's a whole different deal.

That was like midday and I was like, you know, supposed to be the, like background music of people's offices talking about.

It was just a whole.

It was like an acting gig.

But it was perfect because I hated the music, so it didn't make any difference, but it was fun.

People would call me and just.

They would tell me, lord, people will tell you anything if they listen to you on the radio all the time.

So that was always entertaining.

I worked the morning show in classic rock for a long time, and then I worked nights seven to midnight.

That was a fun shift because it was mostly factory guys listening to me and they would call from the factory.

They'd be like, man, they were great.

They were die hard listeners.

They were awesome.

Super fun.

Super fun.

Heck yeah.

Kim Ware, thank you for your time.

You never know where a dive bar music club episode is going to go.

Even when we have a framework and a bulletin, little notes, it's like, okay, free for all.

Dive in, y'.

All.

Love it.

Love it.

No, this was so fun.

Safe travels.

For the things that'll be coming up,.

That's last call at Dive Bar Music club.

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See y' all next time for the low key, high taste happy hour for music nerds.