Ohio election officials face increasing challenges in balancing integrity and access, made even harder by technology developments, shifts in legal dynamics and strong skepticism — all resulting in a staff turnover of 10% to 15% per year. Aaron Ockerman, president of Ockerman Consulting and executive director of the Ohio Association of Election Officials, however, calls the job a noble calling that contributes to the country’s democracy. He explains how election leaders address recruitment and retention by providing resources and opportunities for professional development, certification and skill development; mentorship; and a pipeline for new employees to work their way up the ladder. 

Trevor Brown 0:03

welcome to the podcast Leadership Forum a conversation with leaders who serve the public good. My name is Trevor Brown, and I'm privileged to serve as Dean of the John Glenn College of Public Affairs at The Ohio State University, where we aspire to fulfill a simple phrase that Senator John Glenn use to describe what we do. Inspire citizenship and develop leadership. I also have the honor of serving as the host of this conversation series. So welcome to a thoughtful and reflective conversation about public service and leadership. I'm joined today by Aaron Ockerman, the president of Ockerman Consulting, a government relations and public affairs firm and the executive director of the Ohio Association of election officials, the association representing Ohio's election officials, across 88 counties, political jurisdictions, we used to organize elections here in Ohio. Throughout his career, he has been active in local state and federal political campaigns. He has a lot of knowledge and experience about elections, campaigns and the way we organize and administer elections. We're going to focus our conversation here in Ohio. Each state has different laws governing elections and different systems for administering those elections. So do know, as you're listening, that we're going to be talking about what applies here in Ohio. Aaron, thanks for joining me today to talk about elections and election administration.

Aaron Ockerman 1:23

Thanks, Trevor. It is a privilege and an honor. And I'm humbled to be here. Appreciate it.

Trevor Brown 1:28

Aaron Ockerman 1:58

Trevor Brown 3:37

But when you say we, I want to make sure we unpack that because because we could be you the Ohio Association, elected officials could be the secretary of state could be the legislature. And I guess the way I'll ask this is just sticking right now with access and integrity. What do you have, what do you and your role as an election administrator or the association representing have more control over? What's what's in the hands of policymakers like the legislature in the Secretary of State? And what's in your hands as an election administrator? What tools do you have to influence both access and integrity?

Aaron Ockerman 4:14

Yeah, that's a great question, Trevor. And one we get frequently. I mean, we we fully understand as election administrators that we are the executive side of the equation here we are the executive part of government. And so to a very large degree, you know, we can only implement and administer what the legislature in this in this instance, you know, largely its state legislature tells us we could do. Certainly there are some rules that have been driven by Congress and trickle down to the states. And certainly there are is a little bit of discretion at the local level as well on the policy side, but largely, it's our state legislature that dictates how we vote in Ohio. You alluded at the top of the show that, you know, we we do have these kinds of 50 laboratories of democracy, as we call them, Congress has largely left it up to the states to figure out how they want to do their own election system. So yeah. But within that framework, we're very passionate and our advocacy work. We are not shy about sharing our thoughts with the legislature on different pieces of legislation that they're contemplating and how they're going to impact the election system. Certainly, you know, we don't want to overstep our bounds. But if we see a bill that we think is going to negatively impact voters, or the integrity of our elections process, we're going to speak up about that, if we see a piece of legislation moving through that we think is going to promote those areas of of access and integrity, then we'll certainly get out front and share our thoughts about that as well.

Trevor Brown 5:40

I want to I want to pick up on so many of the things you just said, I want to get to the laboratories of democracy in a minute and see how Ohio ranks relative to the other 49 states. But But just because so many of our audience will be interested I think in the in the in the processes by which an administrative entity, an election official can influence the policymaking process. You just said a moment ago that if you see a bill, you might, you know, say, hey, we we feel this way or that way. And you are a professional lobbyist. So maybe talk a little bit about how, you know, what is that firewall between, hey, we are the creatures of the state. You know, the state government greets us and we have to respond to our political overseers versus Oh, no, we're going to try and influence the policymaking process to uphold the values that we think are critical or not uphold us or influence that that process. How does that work for you?

Aaron Ockerman 6:39

Trevor Brown 9:02

Great, no, thank you for sharing that. I think it's helpful to understand that's a tricky space to be in where you're, you're advocate in some contexts and implement or in in another. So you mentioned the laboratories of democracy, the 50 states do this this differently and different laws in place and different structures? How does? Let's take integrity first and then access? Second, how does Ohio rank or stack up to other states on on this?

Aaron Ockerman 9:31

What do you you've sort of answered what was going to be my last question in this space, which is, is there a trade off between the two, and you said they're not and I did a little digging around just before our talk today, just so I was well prepared as well as I could be. And I found a heritage, The Heritage Foundation has an ongoing assessment of voting integrity. And to your, to your credit, were in the top 10, top 10 according to their, their scale, and we get high marks for voter ID implementation and restrictions on vote harvesting and the access of election observers, but low marks according to their scale for the verification of citizenship, absentee ballot management, and then kind of middling for accuracy of our voter lists. So they have a set of criteria, that then I'll let those sink in as I pose this question, then I found another study looking at access. The the there's a cost of voting index that a major university nonpartisan study of investments of resident must make in terms of time and money to vote. And Oregon is number one, because it's all mail absentee ballot. And we're we're in the bottom 20%, we're 41st. Now, this study, the one I just mentioned, on on access, heavily weights, ease of registration to vote and availability of early voting, both in person and by mail. And the study draws a distinction between early voting and in person absentee voting, because it can be limited by counties' offices, rather than to numerous polling sites. So I think you're in Ohio, if you're going to absentee, but you can only go to a county office, is that is that correct?

That is correct. Yeah, we are limited to one location. And I guess, technically speaking, legally speaking, it doesn't have to be your Board of Elections Office in the vast majority of counties, it is the Board of Elections Office. Okay. Like Delaware County, for example, actually, at one point had moved the early vote center down to southern Delaware County, their board offices a little further north. They wanted to kind of move it closer to the population. Of the of the citizens there in Delaware County. So it doesn't have to be at the Board of Elections necessarily, but frequently it is, but it's one.

Yeah. And so, my final question, again, you gave an answer to it. But now that you've heard this, I wonder just go a little deeper, right? I mean, so as I read this, it, it's sort of framed, they were two different, and academics can come up with all sorts of different ways to measure things, and I haven't board this too advanced, so I'll put you on the spot. But, you know, the sort of the result I saw was, well, you can go really, really high on integrity and make it you know, just lock solid safe and give people great confidence, or you can can make it really, really accessible. And that was sort of the way I read these two studies. But But I heard you just moments ago say no, you can have both. And to that end, just a highlight again, what in your mind are the critical boths? Like what are the things that need to be in place to assure people that yeah, voting is easy to do and accessible, but you can be really, really sure that your vote is safe and and will be counted in? In a fair way?

Yeah, and we probably don't have enough time to go into like, all of the ways that I really firmly believe we do it well in Ohio. But again, I think 28 days is just a very generous period for people to vote. And again, you always have the option of doing it by mail, which again, very, very convenient way of voting. So on the access side, I think we do a really good job. Definitely there are ways I think we could improve. One of the things we talked to the legislature about is allowing people to request their ballot online, ballot online that's something that we don't have. We have online voter registration again, a very good pro voter convenient thing that we offer to our voters, but we if you want to request an absentee ballot, you got to go through pretty cumbersome, back and forth, you know, using the mail system to get your ballot requested. But that's, you know, I think that's kind of a one off on the end. So I just think we do, we've been very intentional, we've been very thoughtful about how we're creating this, this access. We're pretty good about, you know, still having a good number of voting locations on election day, typically, you're gonna get, you know, 50 plus percent that are going to vote on election day, with the exception maybe of you know, the pandemic voting, we saw that people that's still very popular. So we maintain a very robust Election Day network of polling locations, so that people have access to those and can vote if that's the way they choose to do so. On again, on the on the security side, there are lots of other things. I mean, starting at the very top with this bipartisan oversight of our elections, I think people should really take a lot of comfort from that. And again, I don't want to, you know, criticize other states or talk bad about other states. But we honestly, we look around at some of our neighbors where, you know, the system is inherently political, because you know, they've elected someone at the county level to maybe administer their their election system on a on a partisan basis, or they have a board of supervisors, that's the three individuals, two from one party, one from the other three from one party zero from the other. And again, not that they can't make that work. But we just it's so inherent in our ingrained in our election DNA to have this bipartisan oversight, we just feel very passionately and strongly about that. I talked a little bit about cybersecurity, but we've done physical hardening of our offices as well, it might surprise some of your listeners to know that, you know, we really our ballots, our election equipment is really very much locked down at the Board of Elections Office, I always use this example. To get to the very sensitive areas of a board of election, we have double bits, double lock, and there's a Republican key and there's a Democrat key. I always say, you know, if you've seen like The Hunt for Red October, you know, that scene where they have to both put the key in to launch the nuclear, you know, weapons, you know, you have to kind of put them both at the same time and turn them that's what it's like to get into a board of elections. Since the various obviously it's, you know, it's hard to rig an election in Ohio, as it is to start a nuclear war. Apparently,

it's Well, good. That's good on both counts. Yeah.

So those are just a couple examples of...

Well thank you. Thank you for going deep on that. Let's, let's talk you mentioned earlier, we got a special election again, just for listeners were in Ohio, it doesn't mean you haven't a special election in your world, wherever you're listening to this. But on August 6, we're going to we're going to hold a special election here. And I'll just start by asking why why in Ohio, do we have special elections? Why do we need them? Why can't we just run these votes during the general election?

And just to clarify, August 8 is the day

I'm saying sorry, I just misread. Thank you for clarifying that.

That's okay. Don't want people showing up on a Sunday. Everyone. Yeah, we. So again, I will give my my opinion, I guess that's why I'm on here representing local election officials that, you know, our opinion is the special elections really aren't necessary that we've advocated for a long time that, that we just kind of get rid of them that we go to a more normalized elections calendar of voting every May and voting every November. And that's efficient, and that we can do our business in two days here, as far as anything that we want to put before the voters, whether it be candidates, issues, you know, whatever it might be, because we've historically seen that, you know, we used to have a February special election, we advocated with the legislature, again, kind of going back to our first conversation that they get rid of. And we went back, you know, a few years later and said, Alright, let's take care of these August elections, we, again, continue to see that they're not necessary. They're costly.

Does it? How much does it cost to run an election?

Yeah, it's all this, you know, statewide, it's going to cost, you know, 16 $20 million, probably that's a statewide election. And you know, all the costs are sunk. If you're if you're voting in August, or you're voting in November, you got to stop the polls, you got to buy the ballot, everything that you're doing. And again, if you're only getting seven or 8% of the people, or 10% of the people turning out, you know, per vote, as we like to calculate it, that's extremely more expensive than if you got 50, 60, 70% of the people turn out. So, you know, again, that's a that's an opinion. But we have advocated for, you know, again, the better part of 20 years that we just moved to a more regular voting calendar.

So what what is the what is the statutory justification for for a special election? Why why do we have them like by law, why what is the explanation for why they exist?

Yeah, historically, they were there in statute to give local political subdivisions kind of an extra bite at the apple, if you will. Usually they were for, you know, like a school levy or a park levy or, you know, a township fire Levy, and they wanted to kind of have an extra bite of the apple, they might have gone in May and failed. They didn't want to wait to November. So they went in August. And, you know, maybe it passed, maybe it didn't in August, but they could go again in November. And so that's kind of historically what they were were used for. You know, now, I would argue, you know, there's been some Supreme Court cases on this. So I guess I'll talk in terms that, you know, this August, we're having this primary be for one statewide issue that the legislature put on the ballot. There were definitely some questions about legally was that even possible, given the fact that the legislature did get rid of August special elections, by and large last year, the Court, the Supreme Court, here in Ohio did ultimately rule that the way they went about doing it through a joint resolution was was legal and acceptable. And so we're gonna have an August special election. It's definitely kind of a unique path and a unique purpose. We haven't had an August special election with a statewide issue, I think, since 1926. So it's not unprecedented, but certainly a rare occurrence.

Well, I'm don't worry, I'm not going to put you on the spot and make you guess, which which way the votes gonna go on issue one, but certainly a momentous and potentially important change to statute law here.

And again, just to be clear, we're, you know, we, in this case, in particular, do you want to be very cautious? We're not saying issue one is good or bad, right? No, it is certainly unique and unprecedented. As far as the timing goes, We're not going to weigh in as election administrators and to you know, it's a good thing, it's a bad thing. And we have to voters obviously, decide where the referee the umpire, we count the balls and strikes. And so we don't want to be perceived as trying to sway one or any voter one way or another.

Yep. Well, earlier, you gave us sort of a thumbnail sketch of of how elections are organized here, the bipartisans approach, they hire staff, etc. So now I'm gonna I'm gonna play a little game here with you. I'm gonna read you a list, I want you to tell me which of the following is the biggest challenge for election administrators in Ohio? And why? And I may not have the complete list. So there may be some on that I've excluded you go ahead and say, well, actually, it's this. So first category is technology. Second is financing. Third is recruitment, retention and training of staff. Fourth is recruitment, retention and training of volunteers, special elections, legal changes, communicating with the public, and political oversight. And I list all that for our listeners to say, this is not an easy job. This is a hard, it's a hard job, but which you know, pick one or two of those and say, well, actually, that is really, really a challenge for us, and then give us some education as to why.

Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to comment on those. And it is a good list. It's not comprehensive, but it's a very good list. And I really appreciate the opportunity to comment on I think, number three, which was retention of staff, staff, you know, just again, based on what you just shared, it is a very challenging job. You know, the unfortunate thing is, it's a it's a thankless job. That's not unfortunate. We're okay with that. The unfortunate thing is, in recent years, I'm not so much in Ohio, although to a certain degree, you know, you've seen, like physical threats of violence against election officials, you need this high level of skepticism and the integrity of our elections process that has been borne out through people, you know, taking it to the extreme, and basically, you know, physically visibly threatening election officials and their and their families. And that makes it very difficult, obviously, for people that want to stay in that and an already difficult job. And so we've seen massive turnover. It's very, very unfortunate. We've seen massive turnover here in the state of Ohio, we lose 10 to 15% a year, you know, probably, yeah. And that's a big number. It's not an easy job. It requires a lot of commitment, it requires a lot of knowledge, a lot of institutional knowledge, you really have to be in the job for four years before you even start to get settled. You have to go through a four year cycle, you have to learn the differences between a presidential election and gubernatorial election, and an off year primary election and the unique challenges of each. And so it requires time it requires commitment, it retired requires a lot of knowledge. And to tab that kind of brain drain is a huge threat, a huge challenge to the to the system overall. And one that we're really trying to be, again, deliberate about addressing and trying to overcome. So I very much appreciate the opportunity to comment on that because

let's keep going down that road. Give us a little background on the sort of the career path, who's the typical person who comes in to serve an election administration role, what what kind of background do they have? Is there a special training and then once they're in the role, what's the kind of skill set that you're looking to cultivate and develop and what's the career trajectory look like?

Yeah, it's not, it's not like an engineer or a lawyer, there's no real career. No, there's no real academic path that's out there. As far as you know, here's how you you formally trained to be an election official, here's where you go to school to be an election official, I'll be very candid with you and saying prior to the year 2000, it was a pretty easy job, we voted on punch cards, our voter registration system was a bunch of note cards with voters names scribbled on them, and their date of birth that we put in a filing cabinet in the back. And that was about the level of sophistication that we had. As technology has come on board, as the screen has increased, obviously, we have gotten way more sophisticated about the way we run elections here in the state. But with that sophistication, then comes challenges, you know, you do have to have be pretty tech savvy. At this point, you're managing a lot of big IT systems, you have to be a lawyer, you referenced the ever shifting legal dynamics you deal with whether it's court cases, or legislative changes, or whatever, you almost have to be able to read the revised code, you know, like a lawyer does to understand what's going on, you have to manage your your public persona or your public outreach. So you got to be a master of social media, you need to have know how to communicate with the press, you need to know how to communicate with your voters, you need to lead a very large team of volunteers and motivate them and train them. So you have to be a teacher, you know, so many hats to wear. And it really again, no formal way of doing things. Again, prior to 2000. It was largely a political appointment. And it was, hey, the judges niece of the judges nephew who just graduated from high school or college and needs a job, put em at the Board of Elections, you know, and about the level of thought that went into it and a lot of cases, which isn't to say we had bad people doing it back then it was just a different time. We need more now, you know, candidly, we need really smart people that are willing to work a lot of hours. I think dedication is a big part of the job, being willing to just kind of be away from your family during election season and put in 60 hour week, 70 hour weeks on a consistent basis, be flexible and learn. There's there's a lot of challenges, and it's a big job. And those are the kinds of people we're we're looking for. They can be you know, high school educated, they'd be college educated, we have some lawyers, you know, we have people with really strong academic backgrounds and some that haven't had that degree of schooling. But we'll we'll take everyone I think it's, it's really kind of it's our democracy that we're looking for.

So I'm glad I want to we're having to close here in a minute. I want to finish on that good inspirational thought, but but just before we do, what, so a person who comes with no background in this, are they learning on the job? Are there ways to while they're in the job get up to speed are their professional development opportunities? Because it does it sounds like an a tremendously dynamic and wide ranging set of skills that are required. How do you how do you professionalize this this group of people?

Yeah, well, as you certainly been a part of it forever, we have a fantastic partnership with the Ohio State University, we call it our registered election official program. It is truly best of breed in the country, as far as the professional development, ongoing certification and skill development that we offer to our election officials here in Ohio. I mean, that is a role that we think the association can play a strong part in. And so yeah, yeah, I mean, when you come out of the job, you are, you're going to be thrown in, you're going to get some basic training from our Secretary of State, you'll receive a mentor, we've that's a new program, we started with Secretary LaRose so that we can partner up to kind of these new folks with some senior people that have some experience. You will, there's lots of conferences, and there are national organizations that do great work, the election center does great work as far as its its professional development program. So we're trying to be very conscientious about this turnover, we're trying to be very conscientious about the fact that it's an increasingly difficult job and provide resources and opportunities for people to come into the job without a lot of experience and grow. I mean, one of the great things that we've seen is kind of young people get into this job, maybe at a at a staff level will work their way up, and then you know, eventually go to maybe another county, a larger County and take a job as a as a director or senior staff person at another board. So it's we're starting to create a pipeline, we valued that that partnership with Ohio State to really give people those opportunities. So yeah, so we're we're thinking about that it's very much top of mind for us.

So let's let's pull this to a close by imagining you mentioned young people imagine you had a roomful of young people who didn't know about this career beforehand. And you're you want to fill that 10 to 15%. What's your pitch? What's the what's the call the service?

You know, it is maybe next to military service. I can't think of a nobler calling if you want to serve your country. We have a saying, you know, once you come into elections and you start working in this world, it gets in your blood It becomes addictive in a way, because you understand you are making a huge, huge difference. This is the way we've govern ourselves for almost 250 years, and you are literally front and center, you are making that happen. You know, the bad part is unlike the public thinks you don't work two days a year, you know, you work a lot more than that to make this happen. But man, it is, it is extraordinarily rewarding. You just want to talk to an election official, not just from Ohio, but from around the country. Who wouldn't say it, you know, that it's it's worth it's worth it. You know, I mean, people are definitely leaving, because it's getting tougher, but they won't look back and say, Gee, I regret doing that. They'll say, it was a great experience. And I'm glad I did it. And I contributed to this great country of ours. So it's a it's a very noble calling. And yeah, we'd love to have more people come in and learn about it.

Well, Aaron that was a great place to close. And as you say, in reference to military service, thank you for your service. I'm in agreement with you. I think this is the foundation, the bedrock of democracy is elections, and they need to be accessible, and they need to be trustworthy. And so thank you to you and your colleagues across the state. For all the work you do not just on two days or three if we have a special election, but all the days a year to make make sure that the system works well. And thanks for this conversation.

Really appreciate the opportunity to do it. Thank you for all of your leadership over the years on this topic as well.

Great.