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Show Notes

What happens when you prioritize relationships over marketing tactics?

Dr. Lise Lewis left a secure senior HR position to start Bluesky International with no marketing plan—just a network of people who genuinely wanted her to succeed. Twenty-five years later, she's coached executives at Pricewaterhouse, BBC, Sony, and Vodafone, all through relationships and referrals.

In this conversation, Lise shares:

• The pivotal moment that sparked her fascination with relational dynamics in coaching
• Why being "too hurried" or procrastinating kills feedback conversations
• What makes someone a "relational hero" at work
• Her advice for starting a coaching business today: activate your network, get out and try new things, and write about what makes you genuinely unique

If you've been told you need a complex marketing plan to build a successful practice, this episode will challenge everything you think you know about business development.

Connect with Dr. Lise Lewis

• Blueskyinternational.com
• Liselewis.com
• LinkedIn

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Business of Trust Podcast. I'm your host, Hugo Sanchez, and today I have someone really special joining us. Someone who has spent decades understanding what makes relationships work. My guest is Dr. Lise Lewis. Dr. Lise is an executive coach, a team coach, a coach supervisor, and a trainer. Lise was the president of EMCC Global for six years and the founder of Blue Sky International. But

What really makes Lise unique is her focus on relationships. Lise completed her doctorate degree in executive coaching with a focus on relationships and feedback. And now her practice centers on something called relational leadership, which if you've been listening to this podcast, you know it's right up our wheelhouse. Lise isn't just theorizing about this stuff. She has worked with some of the biggest names out there like Pricewaterhouse, AOL, the NHS.

Vodafone, BBC and Sony, just to name a few. So we're in for a treat today. So we're in for a treat today. Let's get started.

Hello, Dr. List. Welcome to the Business of Trust podcast.

Hugo, and it's a total pleasure to be here with you. Thank you for asking me to join you.

I'm honored that you said yes. And I always like to start these conversations with the Genesis story. how did you get into this line of work?

Well, I kind of fell into it really because my background is actually human resources. I worked for many years for local government, a large organization with about 18,000 people at that time. and I really loved it, know, the development part, but I really didn't like employment law, redundancies, budget downsizing.

all that kind of area. And then I came across coaching, And I thought, this looks okay. So this looks okay turned into me leaving my role, you know, a senior role in HR to set up a business. didn't...

think I had any entrepreneurial skills, I hadn't done this before. You know, I'm a person that just likes to take a risk and I thought, go for it. I kind of thought I'd make it work because I really liked the concept of coaching. There wasn't much around in the UK, I thought.

go for it. So that's how I got into it in the first instance.

something that I'm always curious is when you first start your business, How did you get your first client?

Well, maybe nobody knew my new brand. However, I knew a lot of people. So that included my own organization. So even though I said I didn't want anything to do with HR, I continued to do some work for them for some time, which started me with an income I needed to earn before I could kind of make my name in the business, so to speak.

And of course I had people that knew me and they gave me work as well. People that I'd worked with in the same organisation, they'd left and they'd gone on somewhere else. So they gave me my new role. And my first kind of big client was a company called at that time, British Energy. They've now been taken over by EDF. They were sold to EDF some years ago.

But that was through recommendation that I got that work.

But having a big organization like that to start me off and still doing some remnants from my old company or my own old organization, it started me off in business. I, you know, I just talked to people that I knew I will probably repeat this throughout this meeting that we have because

I can't recommend that enough, you know, around don't start, don't start thinking you don't have any access to anything else and you have to go out and create a big marketing plan. That's what you're recommended to do by the business experts. You can't run a business without a marketing plan. I'm ashamed to say or perhaps I'm celebrating the fact I've never had a marketing plan. My marketing plan has been one to...

Ha

you know, gain, repeat work ⁓ and relationships. That's how I've got my work.

Well, it works splendidly well for you because Blue Sky International is a wildly successful firm. And there was a moment in your career that you ⁓ became fascinated with the dynamics of relationships and your coaching practice focuses on relationships. Now that happens to be the thing that drives business forward in ⁓ a professional service firm. was there a

Cheers.

Thank you.

pivotal moment in your career that sparked this fascination for the relationship dynamics for you?

There was Hugo, I remember it really well

I was well into my practice by this time and the thought of being relational hadn't really dawned on me yet because I am obviously naturally a relational person. I reaLisee, you know, reflecting on my.

on my career, but I hadn't really recognized it. I thought this is what everyone does, you know, this is what you do. And, but I remember this one particular moment when it was a phone conversation, so not person to person. And I was working with this senior executive, CEO actually of this organization, of this branch of the organization. And I remember

A moment when we had a very strong connection. And I don't mean by that rapport it was stronger than that. It was almost ephemeral, almost out of this world. But both our voices changed. And I just really felt this very, very strong connection. I've subsequently kind of learned that this is.

you know, probably the energy that's in morphic fields. So I've gone on to other things. But at that time it was all unknown to me. But I knew that that moment changed that coaching conversation. And it was at that time that I thought, if I could bottle this. And I know I'm not unique, so I knew we all had this ability as coaches. I thought, if I could bottle this.

and share it with the coaching community. Wouldn't that be amazing? Like, you know, to have that skill. And that's when I started my doctoral research on, I used the topic of feedback and it took me down some avenues that became much more spiritual.

But that was my pivotal moment where I thought relationship is the key to successful coaching.

You know, I think of moments where I'm with friends and this might be far-fetched, but I'm with friends who are, say, on the other side of the political spectrum. And I'm trying to, to like have a conversation with them about it. But I had the reaLiseation that it is deep relationships that really shapes minds and disrupts thoughts. it's like when we have that deep relationship is what allows us to.

to give the other person permission to access those deeper sides of our psyche.

Absolutely I just took it for granted at that time, if that makes sense. We know when we resonate with others, we know when we don't. We may not always know the reasons why we have this connection, but we all have the ability as human beings to connect in a relational way that's positive and productive.

you have a doctorate in relationships, in executive coaching and relationships, and what are some things that most people get wrong about relationships that you learn during this phase of your life?

That's very

Well, think the phrase get wrong feels a bit stronger for me. I would say maybe, not kind of in the forefront of one's mind or one's thoughts about connecting. What I found on my research, which I

I did on feedback because not many people like feedback. Not many people like giving it, not many people like receiving it, So I thought I would research that. What I found was that...

When you're giving feedback, sometimes you can be too hurried. It's a bit of a scary situation. So if you're giving feedback, you think, I just got to say this, or you procrastinate and you don't say it at all and you back off and you leave a big gap and it actually never gets talked about. And you say, well, you're doing a good job, know, keep that up. But of course that doesn't help anyone to improve. And it's actually disrespectful if you think about it because...

It's no good complaining about someone's performance if you're not supporting them in that performance. Most people want to learn. Most people want to be happy at work and get support in that way. So I would say the first thing is either too hurried or procrastinating. So you need that kind of icebreaker that you might call where you have an introduction to

these types of conversations. And any conversation really, if you think about it, if you meet somebody new in your circle, Hugo, I guess that you don't jump in with, ⁓ know, how can we solve what's happening in our world ecologically? I would imagine there's some level of small talk, you know, about nice to meet you, how did you get here? How was the journey?

you know, what's your interest in being here? Being relational is just those kind of things that you would say to anyone that you would meet for the first time. Yeah. So use that skill that we already know. And there's also that bit about, I would say, self-management. That's what I'm, you know, I'm putting the label on it, self-management about. We can sometimes be too self-focused. And we want to talk about

what we want or what we're asking or what we want to do and about our interests, et cetera, et But there is something very engaging about bringing the other person in straight away as much as you can. Use those introductory pleasantries. But when you're in a working environment now, let's move it from the social and bring it into ⁓ corporate life, then you still need to have that

bit of time where you relax.

to be relational and to get a good relationship, you need to have an easeful sense. If you want to have ⁓ a difficult conversation, for example, you need to engender some trust. In a coaching conversation, let's forget the difficult conversation for now, in a coaching conversation, it's more than rapport. If you're asking someone to disclose things about themselves that they may be reluctant to,

but nevertheless are important to help them get to wherever they want to be, that makes them happy or where they want to improve or change. They need to trust you, don't they? And it's no good meeting someone for the first time in a coaching conversation and saying, the idea today is that I'll work with you as a coach and you can trust me, you can say whatever you want. Whatever you want to say will be held in confidence between us. That can be the kind of trite.

trite sentence that we trip out, we mean it, but do you feel trust? You know, this is the first time we've actually met before, we've connected before, Hugo, but this is the first time we met. And if I asked you to start disclosing personal stuff, you may be reluctant. There's not to say that now we've met, that you necessarily trust me. So it's about as well getting that engagement.

so that people feel psychologically safe with you. So if we want to move on in our relationships, we've got to feel, I'm okay with this person. We can do this. Yeah? Don't be concerned about what we say. Have that kind of influence. Don't stress too much about, I don't wanna say this, but I need to say it.

If you've created a relationship, you can say most things, you know, because people will start to think they've got my best interests. This is what we're trying to create to be relational and be compassionate. It's not easy to disclose and it's not easy for us either if we have to give a message that may not be received very well.

Hey there, just a quick message before we continue. I'm your host Hugo Sanchez and I'm the founder of Mundus Media, the sponsor of this podcast. I created this show because I was tired of seeing coaches and consultants getting sold cheap marketing tactics that just don't work. I think that real growth doesn't come from this hacks, they come from solid relationships, referrals and reputation. That's exactly how we operate at Mundus Media. We are full service.

digital marketing agency that helps B2B coaches and consultants grow through relationship-based marketing strategies, not by commoditizing your brand, but by amplifying what makes you unique. Think of us as your tech savvy sidekick for product launches, web development, podcast production, email marketing, and ad campaigns. If you're curious about how we can help you, check out our work at mundesmedia.com. Okay, back to our conversation.

It sounds like we're in need of more relational heroes. And I borrowed this term from you, because I read on the website that you help people become relational heroes at the workplace. What do you mean by relational heroes and how does one become a relational hero?

Yeah.

becomes a relational hero by being a human being who cares. You know, that's, we're given these talents, you know. Sometimes we have to refine them a little, you know, but everyone has their story, don't they? We have different sociaLiseation, we're in different cultures.

And it's having that understanding that there's a reason behind a behaviour.

And to be relational, we have to remember that and try and do our best to understand. We're not, none of us are perfect. I'm working hard to be relational. I'm not saying I've got all the answers by any means. It's an ongoing life's journey, I think, to.

get the relationships that we want to have. Sometimes we just connect like that and everything's wonderful. We know those times, but instances that you raised earlier, we have to work at it. And if it's important in the workplace or in gaining business, we have to work.

may be in a different space than we're comfortable with, or where the other person may not be so comfortable with.

And the ones that require the work is where most of the growth is at. So I appreciate you saying that. Dr. Lise, if you were to start your business today from scratch, what would you do? Like what would be your first, you know, I know you didn't have a marketing plan back then and perhaps you don't need one now either, but ⁓ would you have a game plan? What would be your first course of action to?

to grow in your firm with all that you know after 25 years in the field.

Yeah. ⁓

think I would do exactly the same at the start. I would reach out to people, you know, be humble, say, I'm starting a new venture. First of all, what do you think?

I can remember when I said, oh, I'm reaching out and starting a business. People were so pleased for me. They said, well, I you're so brave, you're so courageous. You're giving this up. I was giving up a lot, actually, security of being financially secure.

for a start, you know. ⁓ But they were so, so kind of in awe some people in terms of, I couldn't do that, there's no way I could do that, ⁓ which they turned to my advantage because they were so, they wanted me to succeed. They really did. So again, that started me networking in other areas. You know, I would start, I started off in

joining, I was a member of CIPD, Human Resources Network Organization. I went there and I would just network, network, network. But then I found I was networking with people who are doing the same as me, wanting the same line of business. So then you've got to kind of move out, move out from that and start. I think I would have started raising my own profile earlier than I did. But then again, there wasn't the social media.

when I felt, you you're saying if I was to start out again, if I was to start out now, I'd be on that social media straight away. And I think there's something about using your experiences, you know, so for example, this weekend, I'm going to a day at a lovely kind of retreat place quite near me, and I'm going to work on yoga and chakras, you know, so I don't know where it's going to take me. Okay, I know something about yoga, but I don't know.

And I know something about chakras, but I don't know where that's going to ⁓ enlighten me. But I can see me putting a LinkedIn post on it. know, even if it's do something you've never done before. I've done a few of those things. You know, I've driven a tank. I've done ⁓ paragliding. I've done a tandem parachute jump. You know, I'm really up for trying new things. And I think that kind of...

helps you to widen your own sense of being in the world, engage with other people that you might not necessarily engage with, but go out and do something different.

try and find some uniqueness. Find something somebody wants to read about. It's over just promoting your business because everyone's doing that, aren't they? You know, you've got to find something different.

Is that a starter for you?

So if I... ⁓

Whoa, that's

brilliant advice because I I resonate a lot with the first one, like ask for help. Like the people activate your network and ask for help. The people who like us, and knows us and trust us, they want to help us. And so that's deeply, that's deeply true with me. Get out there and network, do something different to expand your sense of self. ⁓ the, when you say like write something that people care about, I think of it as in like,

Yeah.

I think your

⁓ finding your, your edge and like, like

attention.

something that makes you unique. Like you said, ⁓ that it said that your unique voice in the whole, in the whole war, wild web, you are talking about this because you're bringing your whole self to the table. I met a person the other day who does executive coaching, but he's a comedian that does improv and he up in combines them both together. And, and yeah, right. I it was brilliant. I met him and revend and I invite him to the podcast because.

Yeah.

Wonderful. ⁓

It felt like someone who had integrated all the parts of himself into an offer. So I thought that was beautiful.

It did.

There you go, there you go. And it's fun, know, have some fun.

Well, Dr. Lewis, thank you so much for being such a wonderful guest and sharing much wonderful advice with our audience. ⁓ For those people who are listening and they want to learn more about you, where is the best place to send them?

Well, I have two websites. One is lees.lewis at blueskyinternational.com. Bit long, but that is the business that's got the coaching and the training to be a coach, to be a supervisor. I also have lees at leeslewis.com, much easier. And I set that up as a result of my doctorate and designing feedback training.

for organizations, which has now been tested. So I know it works. That's such a relief having created a framework. So there's those two websites. I'm on LinkedIn. So just a search on my name will find me. I'm on Instagram, must try harder. So even though I'm on Instagram, I need to put more on there. So.

So that's the ways to do it.

Thank you

so much. Wonderful. Thank you, Dr. Lise. I so appreciate you being in the podcast today.

Yes.

You're very welcome. It's been a pleasure to meet you in this way, Hugo. I only connect with you through emails normally, so it's been really nice to actually see you and meet you. And thank you for this opportunity. I've really enjoyed talking with you.

Thank you.

Thank you. That's why I created this podcast because I wanted to connect with people like you. So this is amazing. Thank you so much. Bye for now.

Thanks

Hugo. Bye bye for now. Bye bye.

Well, that's all for today. I hope that you enjoyed my conversation with Dr. Lise Lewis. It was definitely packed with golden nuggets and I learned so much from it. I hope you did too. If you are curious about how my marketing agency, Mundes Media, the sponsor of this podcast, can help you grow your firm, please visit mundesmedia.com. But most importantly, why don't you subscribe to our podcast in whatever platform you're listening from.

If you go to thebusinessoftrust.com, you can hit the subscribe button and get notifications every time a new episode comes out. We release episodes every Friday and you also get some nice actionable marketing tips right into your inbox on my weekly newsletter. So I hope you subscribe and I'll see you in our next episode. Bye for now.