Artwork for podcast Parts Department
22 - Complicated Waste
Episode 22 • 13th September 2022 • Parts Department • Justin Brouillette & Jem Freeman
00:00:00 00:54:22

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Dealing with QA and Bad parts, Over-Complication Waste, Blowing your AI Credits, and the Evolution of Pants Man

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HOSTS

Jem Freeman

Castlemaine, Victoria, Australia

Like Butter | Instagram | More Links


Justin Brouillette

Portland, Oregon, USA

PDX CNC | Instagram | More Links

Transcripts

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Just got to put my ears in,

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Oh,

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hey,

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pretty good.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Good.

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Good.

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Got my coffee.

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Hierarchy.

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gonna say.

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Can you hear the

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Percussive tones of a nail gun.

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Putting together, these kinda a cool fast project.

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The mill room has always been basically just chaos around the operator area.

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There's like one work bench.

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There's like a tool cart and that's basically it.

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So there's like no work surfaces to like, I dunno, there's no way to be organized.

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It seems like.

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And so since we built that room with like open stud walls, I'd always intended

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to like put something between them.

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Cause it's just plastic on one side.

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So we were gonna cut some stuff the other day and I just threw together

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all these little tool holder holders, and then like an organizing Iraq.

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That's what he is nailing together right now is like these little things that'll

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go in between the studs to organize tools.

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So can get rid of the cart.

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Cause it's just kind of taken up floor space underneath this corner.

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Doesn't really work very well in there.

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It's a pretty small booth you've made right around the machine.

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Yeah.

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It's like, it's like we took and added like, not quite half a

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meter around it on two sides and

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Mm

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a meter and a half on the other side.

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It's not much.

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that's cool.

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It does look like a very neat little room though.

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The plastic.

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it's satisfying.

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It makes it feel fancy.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It looks good on the gram.

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yeah.

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Right.

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I've always intended to light it better, but I tried to put some strip

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lights across the top and it, like, I thought it was gonna shine down

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it better and it never really did

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yeah, that can be a bit hit.

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And miss that twin wall call loop, can make it look pretty awful.

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Yeah, definitely.

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What are you up?

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Oh, just noodling around Saturday morning.

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At a Thursday night after work, I came back here with my daughter and we

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made a few little projects for home.

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Hmm.

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And then I got, got back home and tried to assemble the thing we made.

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We'd made some parts on the pencil sharper and I got home.

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I was like, well this is not actually gonna go together.

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The thread tolerance on these is stuff like way too loose.

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These threads are just stripping out.

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And so I had a sort of slight moment of panic of like thinking about how

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many hours the pencil sharpener has done this week of production parts.

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And then I was holding these parts in my hand of like, these are rubbish.

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Oh.

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I was just like put them down.

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I'll look at them.

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When I go into record on Saturday

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Panic panic.

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Panic.

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just imagining like this, this huge pile part that I knew was sitting there.

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Anyway, so I came in this morning and checked, poked around and

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I think we do have an issue.

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It's not as bad as I thought it was.

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But I think we've got more tool run out, you know, as I've spoken about

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before that the the run out adjustment on the pencil, sharp tends to just

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involve beating things with a stick.

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And I think we've, the run out might have prepped and we, we haven't

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been Q seeing it and it might be at a point, it might be at a point

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where it's past its tolerance range.

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Anyway, I'll look at it more in more detail next week, but.

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Crisis averted, I think, but we probably need to go through and check a few hundred

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parts as well on just actually QC them.

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So

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Yeah.

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we'll see.

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But it did, it got me thinking about QC processes and the fact

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that we don't really have any,

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Mm-hmm

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When I used to run the pencil sharper for production, I used to have this like,

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test that I did where I'd take two parts, put them in a shelf and like try and

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talk them as hard as I possibly could.

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And if I couldn't strip them, then I was like, QC passed and if

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I could strip them with my grip strength, then it was like fail.

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So,

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the gem standard.

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mm.

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Does it break?

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Can I climb on it?

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All those classic.

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Oh, now, now I'm dreaming like ways you could like have a little, an offshoot,

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so they'd stay in an order and you could see like where you needed to go back to.

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Where they're trash at when you do like longer rods, how do those unload and

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They just fall into a pile on the floor.

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That's like a pile of pickup sticks.

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Yeah.

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Basically dust collection's so poor on that machine that it leaves like this

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beautiful nest of stringy chips on the floor that like a nice soft actor,

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soft fall as the parts fall into it.

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You should use that as packaging material,

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Yeah.

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Good.

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So yeah, crisis averted for now, I think, but we'll see.

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yeah, no, that's terrifying.

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I mean, I've had those moments happened last year.

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Well, last couple years, I think it was last year where

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the router just, it always.

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Basically spot on and it's like X and Y dimensions for whatever it

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needed to, you know, like 10 or 20 th pretty good for a router.

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And and then all of a sudden it was just like parts were coming out like different.

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And we were like, oh no.

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Cause in one particular case, it was like a rerunning, this customer's part.

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And he had noticed it when he stacked him up and they weren't lining up.

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And I was like, oh, what, why aren't they lining, you know, like

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one would be a little bit off.

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And so we did like a whole walk back through all the things.

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And one of the things that shops recommended was to replace the like

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little bearings at the end of the, and there's shims in there, I guess, too.

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And I, I didn't touch any of this.

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Somebody did it.

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It's not here anymore, but wrote it down and they're really good about

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helping you through those things.

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So that fixed most of that inaccuracy.

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But I just, now I'm thinking like, oh, how long until that happens again, you know,

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Yeah.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Mm.

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Do you do any, like if you are machining at customer part, do you

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do any post machining verification?

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Do you have

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For the vast majority of our time with like wood and the CNC router, rarely it'd

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be like a crossover of like somebody that typically works in other materials, right?

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An engineer for like some company.

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And they give us like some specification that's like really

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rare, but, and then we would have to like usually have to walk it back and

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go, well, we can't do that on wood.

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You know, I can't do five thou plus or minus.

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And we get to a place where we're both comfortable, but then we would be,

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you know, pretty careful about that.

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I've never provided a certification.

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Oh, no,

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or anything like that until we started doing a couple geometry jobs and

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then luckily Andy was here and he was like, here's how you do these.

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Cause I was like, I have no idea.

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QA usually involves like quality of edges for us and surfaces look good.

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And

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Yeah,

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yeah.

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no, I don't.

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Yeah, like, obviously we're not, neither of us are in a position where we'd be

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like doing any sort of certification, but like, I suppose maybe it's just

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a distrust of Mach of the machines.

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But like when I was machining stuff, I would often just like, walk over to the

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machine with the calibers and like stick calibers in whole depth check rebates,

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like throw a tape measure on things like in quite a sort of distrustful

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way of like, what is, you know, what's it actually machining and just like,

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oh yeah, it's it's doing as expected.

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Cool, cool.

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There's that great line?

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I think it was from the bottom of like trust, but verify, which has

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become a bit of a staple here in team meetings of like trust the process,

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but still verify it like double check.

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And I think that's how I like to machine parts is.

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Yeah.

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It's been an interesting, what's what's fun about the mill for me

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anyway, from coming from the router is you can stop it pretty often.

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Like you could stop a router at any time and move it and verify, but

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I, I have a different sense of, I guess it's an urgency because like

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usually the whole down vacuum is running probably cuz it's loud to some

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degree, you know, like you hear it.

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It's using a lot of energy.

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If you turn it.

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The part's gonna move and be in a different position, potentially all

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that kinda stuff that like, it feels different than how, like, when you fix

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your something mechanically in a mill and you open the door and you can just

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like, let it sit there until tomorrow.

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like, it doesn't matter.

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It's a different feeling for sure.

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I know I, people get into like

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know what you

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mean.

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of heat and all that stuff, but our, our room keeps it pretty

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consistent for what we need it to do.

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\ Yep.

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that is, that is nice.

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Mm.

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Yeah, totally know what you mean about the vacuum?

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Like there's a sense of urgency is like, right.

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Let's just get this sheet done.

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Don't pause it.

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Don't look at it too hard.

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Something might move.

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Speaking of, I, this has been widely told, but I don't know if you heard this.

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My friend, Nick PKI who I messaged with a lot.

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He has a machine shop in Florida and he bought a new Datron this year.

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And I know he listens to this, not to make fun of his, his expense, but

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just because he's told it so often that it's very expensive, you know, multi

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hundred thousand dollars machine and he was machining this big flat piece,

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a very thin piece of aluminum, I think.

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And he didn't look at the last few digits on like, it's like 60, 61

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T six, 11 T 11, or I don't know what that, I haven't even know.

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I haven't gotten that far down that list, but apparently that means

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that like has more stress in it.

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So he re while it was still vacuumed down on the Tron, it,

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it released so much stress.

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It popped up into the spindle, jacked the tool holder up and welded it

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to the spindle within like, I think it was the second day you had it.

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And like, who expects that?

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Like, it's so crazy, but yeah.

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Ended up replacing it and it was expensive, but yeah.

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Wild to think about.

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Yeah, I feel sick.

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I have to go for a walk now.

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sorry

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Nice.

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it again.

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I feel your pain

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right.

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welded the tool holder into the

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Like the the faces welded together.

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I think the bottom of the spindle and the, there just a tiny little thing

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too, cause it's like really high speed.

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yeah, rough.

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My, my machining, I posted a few on Instagram, but um, making great progress.

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I don't know how we're looking at a potato camera.

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Probably.

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I don't know how clear this is, but we've got all the,

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potato, potato potato looks great.

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Feature this potato looks great.

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Yeah.

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It works pretty well.

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This wasn't even, this is the old, old fork, obviously, cuz

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it's been sitting on my desk.

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But

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you make that fork?

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Yeah, we make the forks too, which is pretty cool.

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Yeah.

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What I really appreciate and I'm sure you can relate it to is like versus making

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other people's parts in the same day I made, you know, it took me like roughly,

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you know, it wasn't a day of machining.

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It was like a little back and forth like, oh, I should change this.

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I made this one.

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And then realized after we got some stock in that I could make it a

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little bit thinner and then not have to upgrade stock sizes didn't really

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affect anything, but I just like went and changed the parameters updated.

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The cam made this like 10 minutes later so I still have to do the ends, but That

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whole like DFM for your own products is such a nice little, like, you know,

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like, oh, I didn't make it a whole lot of these yet, but I can change it right now.

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Yeah.

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Rapid ish having so good.

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It's been

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How are you doing the backside champs?

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Uh, It's four setups, unfortunately, but I'm working on pallets.

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Yeah.

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I don't know how else you would cuz you need to face both sides or I, I want

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to face both sides working on like a pallet one and done setup for this part.

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And then the base plates, the base plates one's basically done.

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I just need to make it cuz I don't really have a way to

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cut those long, skinny parts.

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Otherwise they're like long flat parts that go underneath, but

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these, I wanna make one pallet that can fit every position.

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So then every time you run it, you're getting like a finished.

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Haven't started that one.

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Yeah.

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Cool

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off extra dreams for you.

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Uhhuh.

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Yeah.

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It's taken me a while, but I I'm enjoying the pallet fixture design process.

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It's not something I've done a whole lot.

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Some but not the same.

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It's different.

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Like for route or stuff, obviously.

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Yeah, that's cool.

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You tried out the rhino eight work in progress, potentially.

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Yeah, dude, I had a moment of frustration during the week of 9 0 7,

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just being that little bit too laggy.

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mm-hmm

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I think it was, it was further and brought to my attention because Laura's been

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shopping for a new laptop this week.

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She's had a surface Microsoft surface for about seven years.

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She's finally.

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I've been jokingly trying to talk her into getting a MacBook all week.

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And she's been very resistant, to shop her around for plasticy laptops.

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But in my moments of like teasing her and like trying to get her to

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buy a Mac, I was like, at the same time, I was quietly frustrated.

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Like, come on rhino, this is annoying.

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And so I had a quick look around on the forums and now I saw some people

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talking about this test metal command that's available in rhino eight.

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Have you tried it?

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Yeah.

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I

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metal thing?

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looked it up again.

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I, I used.

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Months ago, and it was not very good for my experience, but that was months ago.

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And I see they just updated it three days ago.

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So,

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That was good timing of me.

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yeah,

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I've been running right.

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Oh eight for a couple of days.

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It's only crashed a couple of times.

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mm-hmm

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I don't think it's crashed anymore.

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Oh, maybe a little bit more buggy, but way faster response rate in the interface.

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yeah.

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I kept having problems where the screen would turn black or something.

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Like, I would like zoom in, you know, like when you get like annotations in front of

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the screen, it would like kind of do that.

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ah, yeah.

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outta nowhere, all of a sudden it would just be like black screen.

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And I was like, I can't, this is not benefiting me enough at this point.

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But.

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Yeah, I know.

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I, I get that feeling too, of like, I wanna recommend people, you know, and I

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have made these videos about using M one.

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So people like somebody asked me, you know, there'll be a comment on one

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of those videos up for a couple days.

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And some student it's like, I'm going into industrial design school and I'm

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gonna use rhino and solid SolidWorks.

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Do you recommend me to use my M one air?

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And I was like, Ugh, probably not.

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Then I don't like, if you have that computer use it,

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don't go buy some crazy thing.

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Like, but it's, I don't know.

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It's frustrating for sure.

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Like, they're so good performance wise, like we're broker record about

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this, but then you hit the two programs we use every day and it's like hurt.

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I'm gonna take all your Ram.

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I was talking to Josh during the.

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Because we've, it's hot lap season here, which is our

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quarterly sort of staff reviews.

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And we're doing Josh's the other day and talking computers, it's a

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question in the hot laps about like, what do you need from the business?

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So you can performance sort the next level.

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And we got onto the topic of computers and I was like, you, you remember

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there's a, there's a laptop in the budget for you coming up in a month or so.

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And I was joking that it's a M one pro and Josh is quite resistant to that idea.

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And then he is like, how hang on, how much is, how much is an M one pro

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it's like three grand here, minimum.

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And he immediately was like, right.

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Like if you spent that on a desktop, you'd get, and just like quite excited by the

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potential graphics card or whatever that you get in a, a PC desktop for that money.

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So, yeah.

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He doesn't need a laptop either for his job.

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So we might look at a PC desktop for that

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Yeah.

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potentially.

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Yeah.

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I it's been an interesting experience.

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I haven't had that many people, I'd say it's now split about 50 50 of

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people that have no interest in Mac.

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And then, you know, a couple have, and we do have two, two max and

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three PCs, one like ancient tower PC.

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That's just sitting in the shop at the moment doing nothing.

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But it's yeah, it's interesting cuz it's like, if you throw that at somebody

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that doesn't use it or like, it, it, it's kind of like giving 'em the

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wrong hammer for the job, you know?

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like, they're just gonna suck at it and not like it.

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And be mad at you.

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I'm glad you're like us.

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You've got more computers than people are the

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, gotta use one for one task at a time.

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Right?

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Well, truth be told that was the computer.

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My left is, was somebody's and then I just don't have enough

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people at the moment for it.

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So it, it currently sits and prints labels for us.

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It's what it does.

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What have you complicated this week?

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what if I complicated this week?

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That's a good, that was a good segue.

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I'll ruin it by talking about it.

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Um, Oh, complication.

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I think we kind of stemmed off.

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I wrote that down right after we chatted last time related to probably just the

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way like air tables set up and like.

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Some discussion on about fusion, potential features.

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And to me, it represented all of the suggestions by

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users were over complicating.

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What was really desired.

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It was like, I want this one feature to be one click.

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And it gives me this output and there was all this like, well, if

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you export this thing into this program, you can do it with this.

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And I was like, I that's like, no, like and I find that often with the

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way that we can create solutions with air table, like, they're great, but

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you know, like adding a product or it ultimately you get into this place where

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if something is too complicated, it, I just thought, is this just another waste?

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I guess it probably falls into one of the other ones.

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It's either to the point where somebody can't do it.

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If they haven't in, in a complicated situation, right?

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Like you, you either can figure it out or you can't, and it's gonna

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either take you a long time or you're not gonna get it done at all.

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And so that design of whatever system and process to me, that's

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just a whole nother consideration.

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I suppose.

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I already consider some of that, but it seems to need a priority of like, if we're

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gonna do it, it can't be complicated.

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Can't like add to the time of getting the job done significantly,

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whatever that thing is.

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I dunno, just been finding that a lot with our air table stuff.

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I think lately.

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Yeah, I know what you mean.

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We've definitely built a, a beast in air table that is quite unruly at

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times and overcomplicated, and maybe, maybe this is just a defense sort of

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a defense mechanism, but like when people question me about it, which I do

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get questions about it from the team.

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It's like, yes, I know it's too complicated, but we're trying to build

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a system that can cope with our revenue goals, which are X and you know,

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much higher than they currently are.

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We're trying to build a bigger, more complex system that can deal with a

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certain volume of orders and where right now it just feels too complicated and

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Yeah.

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but we kind of, I feel like we have to get to that point so that then we can

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work out how to lean it up again, like we need to over process so we can go.

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Right.

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Okay.

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What's important in this system, we've built bits of it do we actually

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need in order to operate effectively and then like pair it down again.

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So I feel like we're in that sort of expansion phase at the moment

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where we're just kind of building every idea and adding more and

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more ideas on top of each other.

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And then at some point we'll start to go like, cool.

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All right.

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Let's just.

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Take that system that we've built and emulate that one and just

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draw those parts together and make this like beautiful lean system.

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I dunno if we'll ever get to that point, but that's kind of my thinking around it.

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That is, they've started to make things a little bit simpler

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to, I guess, like Redux, right?

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Like revise, like find, find and revise.

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Like, it'll tell you what all the things, when you go to edit something now is

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just playing around with something today.

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I was trying to make a, a simple, like, this is the problem, right?

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I have an email template that sends there's a couple fill-in fields where

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I type in, like, I need a courier to pick up this thing, bring it here.

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So it's like the wood supply vendor bring me less than they will deliver.

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And the courier, you know, will bring it.

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But I it's all built around my email in my email system.

Speaker:

So I was like, well, can I just build out a little automation through, you

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know, you type in a record line and it's exactly what we're talking about.

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It's like, I'm trying to simplify or make available to like Ricky to be

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able to do this or somebody else and make it repeatable and stuff that

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I don't have to remember to tell somebody, but then ultimately I'm

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making this fairly complicated thing that is kind of forced into a system.

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That's not very customizable.

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If something needs to.

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Changed.

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Mm.

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and I, as you were talking, I guess the other thought I have is we keep

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talking about the idea of removing things instead of adding, and then you talked

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about how you're in the expansion phase.

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And I, like, I think that's totally accurate, but I also have had this thought

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for a long time, like, how do I remove and simplify, our main air table bases?

Speaker:

Can I, I wanna like duplicate them only parts of them and start over in a new one.

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But like, I don't know if that's possible, you know, without like

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rebuilding everything specifically,

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yeah, yeah.

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I dunno the best approach to that either.

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Like, yeah.

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My default is, you know, with my to-do list is to start over and build

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a fresh one on a somewhere else in a clean base for, in a clean program.

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you knew.

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And I would probably apply a similar logic to air table if I had to sort

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of start from scratch and rethink it.

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Yeah.

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yeah, I don't, yeah, we're not yet in that removal phase.

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I don't think we're their table, but at some point will need to be like

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we've, I don't know, a listener on the podcast had reached out about the

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product launch list that I'd mentioned.

Speaker:

And he was like, oh, I'd love to see that just out of interest.

Speaker:

Sounds like you've you guys have worked it out.

Speaker:

I was like, I sent him a screenshot, sent a screenshot of like, this

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is, you know, this is the list and this is why I find it overwhelming.

Speaker:

And he was sort of, you know, it's a huge list, but then he was, he

Speaker:

was saying, you know, like, why don't you guys sell your air table?

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As a template.

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It's like, yeah, we've, we've thought about it.

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Same.

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Yeah.

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We wouldn't wanna support it in any way.

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Yes.

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But you, there is potential that we could, you know, give it to someone

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as a, sort of a jumping off point.

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I've made videos, you've made videos too, but like made blog posts and

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like shared different bits of it.

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And we've talked about this before.

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It's, it's easy to share parts and they've tried to make it

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so you can templatize things.

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And I think some of it's naivety and you figure out how to add stuff

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on to this beast of an air table, but then, like we're saying, it's

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hard to remove things from that or.

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Simplify it in a way.

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And the only thing I've ever thought of, I've said this before, I think

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here too, to show how I built or to give what I've we've made, which is

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good in like all these different ways.

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There's definitely junk and detri try this, that doesn't work, but would

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be to like make a, make a course or a recorded thing where it's like,

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here's, these different segments.

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Here's how they interate, because everybody's gonna need

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a little bit different thing.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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while it's flexible, a lot of the interrelated automations

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will just implode if you start to change too much out of them.

Speaker:

so yeah.

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I don't know that it's that feasible, honestly, at this point,

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it'd be nice if they could do that, but.

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Yeah.

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What stable diffusion.

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I haven't played with it too much.

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But I think it was a podcast I was listening to was, you know, they were

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talking about Dolly and different versions of these technologies.

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That's like rapidly evolving right now.

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And the stable diffusion one came up.

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I don't honestly remember what was unique about it, but I was like, oh, this is

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related to what we've been talking about.

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It seems just like another version of

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what is already out there.

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Oh, I know.

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The other thing that was interesting about this AI discussion was this was on

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cortex, which is CGP gray and Mike Hurley.

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And they kinda just talk about random technology things and their interests.

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And they were talking about Dolly and stable diffusion.

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And this other one, I don't remember.

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It's like three or four now.

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And.

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Like one of the hosts was really against the whole idea that like, it's,

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you know, it's gonna replace jobs.

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Okay, sure.

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That's gonna happen with technology.

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And then they basically stumbled down this like article that somebody had found

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live on the show of how this dead artists work had basically been recreated and

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modified and used extensively in creating these other images that were published

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through these creation algorithms.

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But they were really not that far off, like, I know Dolly's ethics

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statements are, you know, we are not gonna recreate people, right.

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Likenesses of real people.

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And this was even on John Oliver.

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Have you watched that at all the last week

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The cabbage.

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Yes.

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Did you see the cabbage?

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Yeah.

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I saw the cabbage.

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Yeah.

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And how, like one of these AI softwares has allowed you to like,

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basically recreate people's likenesses.

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Right?

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So it's like, they're getting so good.

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I think some of the stable effusion con discussion was like, these are so good.

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They're basically impossible to tell what's real and what's fake

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yeah.

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Wow.

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it was just wild

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Yeah.

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Well, I had a, a bender of the first week in DLI this week.

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It was great fun.

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Got access.

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I think I have had, you know, it's been fun watching you use it and you

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have sent excitedly sent me photo

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dumps of bizarre images in slack, which I've, you know, has entertained me.

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But I don't think I got it until I got to use it.

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Like, I don't think I fully understood.

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And it was your talk of the sticker that tipped me over the

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edge, the baby pants sticker.

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When you said you'd made that in Delhi, I was like, oh right.

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You know, you'd have to pay an illustrator to make a thing like that.

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If you weren't capable of drawing in that style.

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Yep.

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And so jumping in this week, I was like, right.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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This is actually a bit of a game changer for certain things.

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And I blew my mom's credits in about 48 hours.

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You can

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see.

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Yeah.

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things over the lunch table, which was greatly entertaining as well.

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New prison tattoos for the staff.

Speaker:

But yeah, it's pretty amazing.

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I don't, I was talking to my mom about it and she's a visual artist, a print

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maker, I was showing her and she was a bit blown away and we're talking about it.

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I don't, you know, I don't feel like it risks, poses any risk to an art

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practice because it's just another tool.

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But if I was a, you know, an illustrator or a graphic designer, I think I'd be,

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feel threatened by its abilities for sure.

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But at the same time, is it just another tool that you just have

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to get good at using and just becomes part of your tool set?

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I dunno.

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It's

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I can't remember.

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I think I've said it in some version of this, but after playing around with

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it, like you said, your eyes kind of through mind, starts to think about it.

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Like I started to think like, ] if any of you have noticed, I make a

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lot of the chapter images with Dolly, like whenever I just have a thought

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about how to create what would be interesting related to this thing,

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I'll type it in just for my curiosity.

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But yeah, that's kind of how I got into making the pants.

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Man was just endless.

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It was one night, my wife and I were watching something like severance on TV.

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And I was just like laughing.

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Endlessly at the, I mean, there are a lot of hilarious ones and

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I can probably share some of 'em.

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And I guess my, the, to finish my thought on that, the thing that it

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immediately started to generate for me in the past, you know, weeks since then

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have been, I've literally legitimately thought, I would love a version of this

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to create 3d models of wrote things that I don't wanna spend time to like,

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like model myself, like I wanna model

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of, you know and that's gotta be something, you know, that is

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something I've thought about.

Speaker:

And then videos just like short videos, stock footage.

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And that was the other thing that Mike and and CGP great talked about

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is like, this is gonna completely replace the stock photo market.

Speaker:

Like you're not gonna need it anymore.

Speaker:

The year just saying footage like stock footage just made me think.

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Have you read that William Gibson book, pattern recognition.

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It sounds familiar.

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One of my favorite books and it's, it's, you know, a lot of it's about the creation

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of video footage and people not being able to tell if it's real or made from

Speaker:

scratch and I won't spoil it, but yeah, it's always been a really intriguing idea

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to me of, you know, cuz I used to make short films and animations and stuff.

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So I've always been interested in creation of visual assets,

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particularly video photography.

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But that I love, love, love that space where you can't tell

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whether something's real or not.

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Like that used to be my whole sort of stick with photography was like

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trying to create CG effects, but with no CG involved in photography,

Speaker:

Yeah

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And not being able to tell if it was computer generated or not.

Speaker:

that was always my interest with renderings.

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Like I never got, I mean, in school I would get really into making some, which

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I would never like rendering a whole building in a cityscape is one thing.

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And I was somewhat interested in that.

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But as you can tell by what I'm doing now, I'd always be like, let's make a desk and

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make that rendered really well in a scene.

Speaker:

and that's how I got, like, that would always be my interest and I, it it's

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always flattering and fun when somebody has no idea that it's a rendering like,

Speaker:

oh, where'd you take those photos at?

Speaker:

And it's like, oh, that's just a render.

Speaker:

You know, , it's always nice.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

I get the opposite questions too, of like, wow.

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How are you rendering these, these look really good.

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Do you using fusion?

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It's like, ah, that's a photo.

Speaker:

I think because I've mixed things up a little bit on Instagram and there's a few

Speaker:

renderings sprinkled in here and there

Speaker:

you've won.

Speaker:

people off the SC.

Speaker:

Nobody has any idea anymore.

Speaker:

And it's, that's kind of, I guess, more I don't know, I'm not worried

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about it necessarily, but this, the progress in these things does, does

Speaker:

make me think like, you know, SIM maybe there'll be a geometry, right?

Speaker:

For like maybe geometry will have a version of an AI generator.

Speaker:

That's like, You know, I need these parts and it will both generate them for you

Speaker:

and say, you know, in half an hour, it'll 10 minutes or five minutes, or maybe it

Speaker:

get really fast, it'll be 60 seconds.

Speaker:

It'll generate the whole model and say, we'll make this for you in two

Speaker:

days, you know, out of stainless steel.

Speaker:

And you're like, oh God, that's crazy.

Speaker:

And all of the design was taken out.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Maybe one day, maybe, you know,

Speaker:

what have

Speaker:

tough up my coffee real quick.

Speaker:

Yeah, sure.

Speaker:

One sec.

Speaker:

So the.

Speaker:

not Woohoo.

Speaker:

It's good.

Speaker:

What have you been, is there anything you've been researching that this last

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week that's unique, different progress?

Speaker:

some good research time, just, you know, trying to learn.

Speaker:

How it's done and look at different ways of doing it.

Speaker:

It was really just a YouTube deep dive, one early morning, over a lot of coffee,

Speaker:

taking notes on temperatures and,

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

But yeah, I'm at the point now where I just need to start cutting

Speaker:

up a few of those black tubes and get some test batches running.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So that'll be my job next week, I think is make a little, no, I'm not

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gonna bother making a rig to cut it.

Speaker:

I was gonna say, I need to make a rig to be able to cut the tube, but

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I'm just gonna hack it up initially.

Speaker:

Just get a circular sore and

Speaker:

asking.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I was gonna say, how do you cut that?

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cut some tube.

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Like a

Speaker:

whole

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ultimately I'll make some sort of rolling rig with a fixed blade and

Speaker:

you can just like a giant tube cutter.

Speaker:

It obviously needs to be, cause you're gonna need to rotate these, you know?

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And so in your whole method of being as energy efficient as possible, you need

Speaker:

a stationary bike that people take turns riding that helps to spin the wheel,

Speaker:

sure.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Huge gear reduction through pedals for 10 minutes and it

Speaker:

gets one revolution.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

yeah, yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah, no, that's about it for me this week.

Speaker:

Bit of compost research and standing to think about that.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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What about you?

Speaker:

I've been researching a lot of machining things, luckily asking

Speaker:

friends most of it, but like I was, I've never used a reamer before.

Speaker:

Have you, have you ever used a reamer?

Speaker:

As far as I understand, they're like a really accurate way to

Speaker:

make a hole to the proper diameter is like strange to me still

Speaker:

a high speed ill drill is very inaccurate.

Speaker:

Like it may hit the hole, right.

Speaker:

But it can wander at the bottom it'll wobble.

Speaker:

So like, I was trying to make these pins at the bottom here.

Speaker:

These are alignment holes, and I just used, I spot drilled 'em then

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drilled them with a drill and.

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Put gauge pins in and they're like, what, three or four thousands larger than they

Speaker:

should be, which doesn't me seem like much, but it makes it not so aligned.

Speaker:

not that I'm like super concerned, but the point would be that it's

Speaker:

not wobbling around on people.

Speaker:

Which would make you less sure of its alignment, I suppose.

Speaker:

Must have a bit of tolerance though, right?

Speaker:

With those things, like the position of the tool holder.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

got a fair bit of grace,

Speaker:

Oh for sure.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And the top

Speaker:

isn't perfect either, but I like to start, I like my foundation to be good.

Speaker:

At least

Speaker:

Yes, no, no, totally.

Speaker:

So you reaming before?

Speaker:

No, that's just for the index pins.

Speaker:

You're not reaming before tapping that's just for the positional pins.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Gotcha.

Speaker:

I did.

Speaker:

I did the tapping.

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I'd.

Speaker:

Form tapped blind holes before.

Speaker:

So that was pretty exciting on the top of these.

Speaker:

And every time it happens, I started the cycle for that.

Speaker:

Like it changed the tool and it's on optional stop.

Speaker:

And it just like that machine rapid so fast, I'm sitting there holding feed

Speaker:

hold and, and I was like, oh, well, you know, I just gotta let it go.

Speaker:

And then I had cranked the feed rate down, just normally running through everything.

Speaker:

I keep it real low, but I was like, is it gonna take over and like

Speaker:

adjust to a hundred percent or is that gonna screw up the twist?

Speaker:

And like, then it, and so I just cranked it to a hundred

Speaker:

reels quick and it was fine.

Speaker:

Cause you can't tell it all it's covered and coolant.

Speaker:

You have no idea if it breaks until it's basically done.

Speaker:

But they both were great.

Speaker:

So every time I just like pray that I calculated it right.

Speaker:

How much did you spend on that mill?

Speaker:

To buy directly it's Val like roughly 25,000 is the number

Speaker:

that it's equivalent to,

Speaker:

I wow.

Speaker:

the truth about the whole, like used to be buy the machine and you can very

Speaker:

easily spend as much as the machine, I guess, in this case, if it was

Speaker:

new, it was supposed to be 70,000.

Speaker:

Probably half of the machines value in accessories and, and like work

Speaker:

holding and tooling, like totally true.

Speaker:

It's absurd.

Speaker:

How fast it goes.

Speaker:

Very crazy.

Speaker:

So it is a $70,000 machine

Speaker:

yeah, basically.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's crazy how fast

Speaker:

I had to

Speaker:

you went and bought one?

Speaker:

No, no, no.

Speaker:

But if you went and bought one new, how much would it be?

Speaker:

It was 70,000 in 2015.

Speaker:

So I don't know what the equivalent is now.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Sweet.

Speaker:

Yeah, no, it's I was thinking yesterday about just all that I've

Speaker:

heard about different machines and like, it's just so capable.

Speaker:

I'm so like lucky that I got it for a good deal from a friend slash client

Speaker:

that like, I've definitely not taken advantage of it's of it's it's mostly

Speaker:

been sitting there and I feel stupid about that, but like, now that I'm finally

Speaker:

getting into like, making real things that we can sell, like, it feels awesome.

Speaker:

Like we're so excited to like, just be, be running things

Speaker:

rather than like testing things.

Speaker:

Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Very cool.

Speaker:

Well I still want one Monday.

Speaker:

I'll get a.

Speaker:

Yeah, I bet you're similar to me that, like I knew I wanted it when

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it was offered, but I , I kept, we kept having this discussion here

Speaker:

of like, what would we do with it?

Speaker:

Like trying to make a business case for it.

Speaker:

And in some regards it kept being like, I guess we have to get it and play with it.

Speaker:

Cuz like nobody could think of any products to make or like, you know,

Speaker:

we didn't have experience making job shop parts and it's, that's a whole

Speaker:

other competitive game than wood parts.

Speaker:

And

Speaker:

honestly it took me, I wanna say close to a year before.

Speaker:

I really started to think like, oh, I could make these parts as a

Speaker:

product and this machine could do it.

Speaker:

That's a tough sell up front, right.

Speaker:

To throw on that kind of money.

Speaker:

absolutely.

Speaker:

Yep.

Speaker:

What would.

Speaker:

Do you have thoughts of what you would get one for other than experimenting?

Speaker:

No, I'm I'm in the same boat.

Speaker:

I've never been able to come up with a business case.

Speaker:

for one it's more just.

Speaker:

It just feels like the next logical thing that I'd like to learn.

Speaker:

Really.

Speaker:

I like learning new things and that feels like the next adventure.

Speaker:

I agree with that for

Speaker:

sure.

Speaker:

Yeah

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yeah, no, I've got, no, I think I've, I've only ever come up with

Speaker:

one part that I've thought about, but yeah, realistically, and it would

Speaker:

just be a matter of experimentation and seeing what, what came up.

Speaker:

But

Speaker:

know.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

But on the timber machining side of things, we are about

Speaker:

to max out our capacity.

Speaker:

We've got obviously two, two routers plus the pencil.

Speaker:

She, and we've got a job that's about to start that I worked out

Speaker:

on Thursday is nine hours of sorry.

Speaker:

Nine weeks of machine time on one machine.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And so we have to work out how we're gonna schedule all our other work around that.

Speaker:

Cuz I think we've got six weeks to finish the job.

Speaker:

So two machines running flat out, it would be four and a half weeks,

Speaker:

but we don't have, we've got a lot of other stuff to do as well.

Speaker:

So we can't just dedicate to machines to it.

Speaker:

So I suspect we might have some split shifts or extra days of machine

Speaker:

time coming up to deal with that.

Speaker:

We did a similar job about a year ago for the same client.

Speaker:

And I think I ended up just coming in on a few about a month's worth

Speaker:

of weekends and just running it all.

Speaker:

But that job was about half the size of this one.

Speaker:

So

Speaker:

Oh,

Speaker:

we'll see.

Speaker:

Oh.

Speaker:

We've the only time we ever really had a problem like that,

Speaker:

we had just moved into this shop.

Speaker:

There was two and a half people, including myself.

Speaker:

We had piled all this stuff in here and it was like barely organized.

Speaker:

We're trying to build a room, you know, like all the final moving stuff.

Speaker:

And I had a call from what turned out to be one of our best clients.

Speaker:

It was like a movie production company and they needed all these wooden

Speaker:

parts made for Versace basically.

Speaker:

And I thought he was joking when he told me how many at first

Speaker:

I was like, yeah, whatever.

Speaker:

Sure.

Speaker:

No way.

Speaker:

I don't believe just like, okay, I'll send you a quote and then like

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accepted it and paid the deposit in like 12 hours after that.

Speaker:

And I was like, I had agreed basically, like we could finish it in a certain

Speaker:

amount of time, like a couple weeks.

Speaker:

So that was insane because we basically were trying to like

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a, we didn't have a forklift.

Speaker:

So it was like a hundred sheet of plywood figured out how to unload

Speaker:

it, get it into the space that there was like no room for it.

Speaker:

Also figuring out how to move them on, you know, shuffle parts around and

Speaker:

learned a lot from that experience.

Speaker:

But we definitely did some kind of like half night shifts.

Speaker:

Just kinda like somebody would come in later in the afternoon

Speaker:

and then work till like 10:00 PM.

Speaker:

But

Speaker:

That's what we'll probably end up doing too.

Speaker:

I think extending the day.

Speaker:

yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's a bit, it's an interesting one where like, in all our sort of business

Speaker:

development we've done over the last year, we've sort of identified, started

Speaker:

to identify what our sweet spot is in terms of a job, what a job looks like.

Speaker:

And this whilst it's awesome to have, you know, a big job with lots of machine time.

Speaker:

It's definitely not our ideal.

Speaker:

Job in terms of maintaining like good production flow and consistency.

Speaker:

Like we've got, it's, there's 700 sheets in this and we've got half of

Speaker:

those sitting on our floor already.

Speaker:

And they've been here for like four weeks now because the client delayed

Speaker:

completing the files for about four weeks.

Speaker:

The timeline, man.

Speaker:

I absolutely pushes out the timeline, no doubt, but it also

Speaker:

happy to push out the timeline,

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

we've also had 350 sheets of plywood sitting

Speaker:

Oh my God.

Speaker:

on the floor, waiting for this job to drop and with another 350

Speaker:

incoming from the supplier, whenever we can manage to fit them in.

Speaker:

So

Speaker:

Is it like 18

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Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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So that's 15 or 16 lifts of material.

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That's crazy.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I think it's 24 packs or something.

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It's really, but yeah, no good, good for spindle up time, but definitely not

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ideal in terms of smooth production.

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This is why I've always felt like I was bad at the job.

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Shop world was I have the same reaction as well as like we've

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rarely win those kind of jobs.

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And.

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You know, you always just hear about, you know, the more you can run one job

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or one side up, the more profitable it is and all these kind of like mantras

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around spend AUP time and you know, all those things and you describing that.

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Yeah.

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You might be the first person I've ever heard besides myself.

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That's like, yeah, I don't know.

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We don't like those jobs.

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, you know, they're not as like, they're not as, it's probably more emotional, I

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think in a business owner sense of like, sure, the money's good, but it's also puts

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a stress on if you're not ready for it.

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You're not built for it.

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Like

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Yeah.

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it's hard to, the morale can suffer.

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I mean, when we went through that one huge job or every time those

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jobs would come through, I completely give credit to like the whole team

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was always like stoked to do it.

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Cause it was a great job for us and it was cool to work on those projects.

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And so we'd always fly through it, which is cool and find ways like we like.

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I think it was 30% of the original cut time for a sheet that we figured out

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how to like, you know, run it down to.

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So,

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Yeah.

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Yeah, no that, yeah, that side of it can be great, like finding

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efficiencies and yeah, there's something exciting too, about a big Bush.

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Like if you can sort of get on board with it and not let it be a chore,

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but let it sort of, sort of tap into the excitement of that, then it can

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be a positive thing too, as well.

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For sure.

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yeah,

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Yeah.

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so I, I just realized I haven't, I mean, I think I told my wife, but I decided

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to not go to IMTS because just money, it's just a lot to like go and be away.

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And we're also kind of like in the heat of trying to get a couple products out.

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But I have incredible FOMO just like.

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Constantly everybody talking about all, you know, on podcasts or like the

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discord that, just everybody talking about what they're gonna go look at.

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And I do not need to buy anything, which is also a good reason to not go,

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but I'm just like constantly thinking like, ah, man, I wonder if I can make

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that work probably should dunk to it.

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Like, it just sounds like a ton of fun.

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Like after having met a bunch of people in the UK and it just kind

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of sparked that desire to see people see stuff again, since it's been so

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long, like opened up the floodgates of thinking about all these cool things.

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So yeah.

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Trying to tamp that down.

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Sounds like a good call, but I understand

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I'd love.

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I'd love to go to one, one.

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It sounds like they're just ridiculously huge.

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Yeah.

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I mean the only version I've gone to.

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Is the one, the AWFs in Vegas, which is, I would not consider

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that enormous in terms of a show.

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So it's, it's compared to what I've heard about like emo and IMDs where

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it's like there's sub basements of things as well as multiple floors

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and like seemingly miles of other things that you can see there too.

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So yeah, it'd just be cool.

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I mean, I, I think I could manage to not buy something significant

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because money, but I could also see buying a bunch of small things on,

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you know, like little like work, life benefit, things that also, I probably

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don't need to be buying right now.

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I think you've made the right call.

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Stay home and hustle.

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Get products out the

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It's not fun, but it works.

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It works to make money.

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Good.

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All right.

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So I, one more thing

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the show app corner I saw post some YouTube video.

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It's kinda like how I found those Mac apps before.

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But it's this app called shotter it's for taking screenshots on Mac specifically,

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so sorry, all your windows people, but it's speaking of the benefits of M one,

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this app is made for it and it is absurdly fast to take a screenshot, edit it.

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And it's like, you know, all these things, they seem kind

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of silly and nuanced to first.

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I was like, why don't you just use the built in one?

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But then you see like what you can do with it.

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It does have text recognition, which is kind of cool or like QR codes.

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So you don't even need that other one I've been using the text sniper.

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It does that for you call outs.

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And like you can measure pixels on the screen between things which probably not

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super useful unless you're doing marketing or graphic design, but it's just really,

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really fast, which I've kind of had a gripe with the, I used green shot before,

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and then just the preview grab thing and, and Mac has been slow, so it's free

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and you can also pull out colors and you can blur or remove text like AI style.

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Sweet.

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I'll check

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pretty nifty.

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I've already installed it.

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So I'll report

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it's done.

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I'm.

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to the line listeners while gem noodles around trying out a new program on it.

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Live product reviews would be terrible.

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God, hold on.

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I can't get the box open.

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Okay.

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It's not working.

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Justin, how do you do this?

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You may find this interesting.

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Think I got a YouTube ad for Ion.

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And I didn't sign up to do it, but they have some type of like online

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manufacturing process builder.

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So you can like design a system to do robotics, or they have all these different

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examples machine tending palletizing.

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And I guess it, from their examples, it looks like it's like a 3d

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building space in the browser.

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So you can like use extrusions and put a robot arm in.

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And then it says a cart total, I guess, at that point too, which is pretty crazy.

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So I was, I was thinking you may, maybe there's like a process that you've beening

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of that I know related to the pencil sharpener with like the pencil box or

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Ah,

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I don't know, just thought it was an interesting little tool.

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ah, cool.

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Oh wow.

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Floor layouts.

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This is

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process lines.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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I dunno.

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I.

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I thought I could just play with it.

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And then I was like, sign up and I was like, Ugh,

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that's pretty cool.

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I dunno what it is, but it looks cool.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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I have the same feeling

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Did you ever play that game factor?

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now I will news game

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Oh, sorry.

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Facto.

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Sounds fun.

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I played a lot of like rollercoaster take in.

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I, I had a lot of fun with this for a few weeks.

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you build factories?

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Yeah.

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Oh, my, this is like the most like capitalist thing in the world.

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But other than those Shopkin toys for kids or the whole

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premise is they just go shopping.

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What in the world?

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It's very fun.

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Game process.

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crazy images.

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Oh, you already did it.

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I have there's too many things.

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It feels like I spent a long time since we talked, but it's just been a week.

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I don't know why.

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I was reminded of my favorite podcast episode and I don't

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remember don't hold me to this.

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If it's like appropriate for today's audiences.

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Like, you know how, like sometimes in the past old things are like, say

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things that we wouldn't say today.

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But it just has a good memory for me.

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It's from the podcast, you look nice today.

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I've never

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never heard of

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it.

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Yeah.

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It's pretty, pretty nuanced.

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But there's this one episode and it may not be funny, I suppose,

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if you haven't heard the rest of 'em, but it's called baby on a dog.

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I don't know if by me explaining, it's gonna make it funny,

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but I'll put it in the show.

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Now you can listen to it.

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It's it's basically the experience of going to the most awkward restaurant

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you could imagine, and like what that would be like, and they describe it.

Speaker:

And anyway, it's, it's all, it's a, it's a humor podcast thought of improv,

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Oh yeah.

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I'll check it out.

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but I should probably go, I didn't, I've been tending to.

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Some good R and D time this morning.

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And then I got here late and now I'm gonna do it anyway.

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Screw the screw, the diary.

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Screw the default diary who needs that?

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Um,

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yeah.

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Go and do some R and D

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I'm gonna go poke around the pencil sharper.

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Oh, fun.

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Nice.

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All right.

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Have a great day.

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Bye.

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Do you do any Dolly about the pencil sharpener yet?

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Yeah, I tried.

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