Shownotes
Fresh off her second-place finish at the World Triathlon Championship Series race in Karlovy Vary, Taylor Spivey joins the Feisty Tri podcast to break down the breakthrough performance.
Taylor and Katie Zaferes talk World Triathlon and draft-legal strategy, how tactics have changed over their careers, and how the race dynamics played out differently with a hard bike course in Karlovy Vary. When you decide to race from the front or make a break, what do you tell yourself?
Taylor also updates us on where in the world she is these days, the perils of living out of a suitcase, and they compare notes on moving between short-course and long-course — what's the most challenging part of that transition. Is there an Ironman in the future?
Plus, the group chats about the impressive showing from former short-course athletes at the men's Ironman World Championship in Nice this past weekend. Did the course uniquely suit short-course draft-legal athletes? Discuss.
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Transcripts
All right, Feisties, welcome.
Speaker A:It is Kelly Omeric, Katie's affairs.
Speaker A:Joanne got waylaid by weather in Wales.
Speaker A:And we'll be back next week to tell us all about Nice.
Speaker A:But Taylor Spivey is joining us tonight from Girona.
Speaker A:Right, Taylor?
Speaker A:I never know where in the world is Taylor.
Speaker B:Yeah, I never know where I am either.
Speaker B:I'm in Jerome right now.
Speaker A:Well, welcome and congrats on such a good race.
Speaker A:We're talking to you right after the second place at Carla Vivari.
Speaker A:So that's exciting.
Speaker B:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker A:And so we are definitely going to talk Carla Vivari today, but I was just saying we were going to start with the men, the niece.
Speaker A:And so the Ironman World Championships men's men's edition.
Speaker A:Katie was pointing out to me that the top six were all from the short course world.
Speaker A:And the Norwegians, they swept the world Tripodium back in.
Speaker A:When was that?
Speaker C:Bermuda.
Speaker B:Bermuda?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:2018.
Speaker A:You guys were there.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Was it like a big deal at the time was.
Speaker C:Yeah, it was.
Speaker C:Because I feel like even then, like it was like Christian, but I don't feel.
Speaker B:I felt like that was like Gustav.
Speaker C:And Casper's first, like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Am I wrong, Taylor?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:No, you're right.
Speaker B:And I think, I think the dynamics were a little bit different.
Speaker B:I think they played the race dynamics a little bit so Casper would win on the bike.
Speaker B:I think maybe they did some.
Speaker B:Some sort of tactics from what I. Oh, you mean.
Speaker A:Oh, back then.
Speaker B:Okay, Bermuda.
Speaker A:But I thought you were saying this weekend for a second and I was like, oh, no.
Speaker B:This weekend was a totally different.
Speaker B:I think like every man for himself.
Speaker B:Although I was racing, so I didn't really watch the whole.
Speaker C:And I was watching you, so.
Speaker A:I watched parts.
Speaker A:It was 1am here, so I had to do the rewind.
Speaker A:You know, when you get up in the morning, you have to like rewind the live before you find out what happened.
Speaker A:But it is interesting.
Speaker A:Like, so is the Norwegians on the top three.
Speaker A:And then Martin Van Real, who did a great race for not being able to run.
Speaker A:And then Sam Laidlaw, Jonas Schomberg.
Speaker A:That is a lot of short course athletes come over.
Speaker C:It's cool to see in the long like in Kona because I always think of it more in middle distance, like t 170.3s.
Speaker C:But now to see it at the full distance, I mean, and granted, like, you've seen it with like Annie Haug and like, like others.
Speaker C:But yeah, it, I, I feel like the results from this past weekend Were pretty cool and probably a little bit like that course as we were talking about played a little bit into the hands of the like short course athletes.
Speaker A:Oh, you think so?
Speaker B:I think a nice course plays a bit more to the strength of short course athletes probably because, you know, we're not quite as used to the time trial bike.
Speaker B:Whereas I think a Kona course is more, I don't know, long course specific, friendly.
Speaker B:However, I, I mean I think the short course athletes, you know, in the top six, um, they've been known as strong cyclists like throughout their career.
Speaker B:And so I don't think like Katie and I are surprised at all that they're just like dominating at this distance.
Speaker C:I wonder how they feel in the like, I know it's non draft, but in like the pack, like are they like this is kind of like what we did like three or four years ago, except a little more distant like Covid styles.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's.
Speaker A:Because everybody at long course is always very stressed about the 20 meters versus the 12 meters.
Speaker A:Um, but now you have so many short course guys coming over, I wonder if they're like, eh, this is, this is a lot of distance.
Speaker C:Like, well, I feel like I always.
Speaker C:And Taylor, I'm interested in your like, take on it because long course actually stressed me out more because of that.
Speaker C:Because of being like.
Speaker C:And maybe with the radar system it's easier where you're like, okay, I'm clear.
Speaker C:I'm not clear.
Speaker C:But like I feel like just trying to know the distance of like how many bike lengths are supposed to be treated like that's far more confusing than just like being on the wheel of someone.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think the Race Ranger definitely helps.
Speaker B:Like I think if I didn't have it, I would be even more cautious.
Speaker B:But even with the Race Ranger, I think like we got some feedback back finally from the last few races and I was like, I don't think any of my like drafting time was over like 40 seconds.
Speaker B:And that's just like the yo yo effect going into hills.
Speaker B:But I definitely err on the side of caution and I think, I think it would be a lot tougher in like the Ironman distance because I think it's like what, 12 meters versus T100 is like 20ish meters.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So that's like quite close.
Speaker B:And I think I, I don't think I could do it without the Race Ranger, honestly.
Speaker A:Yeah, Yeah, I like I saw the video T100 put out of like asking people if they could like the pros, if they knew how far 20 meters was, you know, like, walk.
Speaker A:Like, walk all the way down, then how far you think it is.
Speaker A:And yeah, they were.
Speaker A:They were off.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's hard to eyeball.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:With all this short course success, though, does it make you guys want to do Iron Man?
Speaker B:I. I think on a course, like, nice, I would consider it, but, yeah, I think it would have to be a course that I looked forward to if I, you know, dabbled in that distance.
Speaker B:But it's long.
Speaker B:I already feel like, you know, middle distance is long.
Speaker B:I can't imagine doubling it.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And we know Katie doesn't want to do Iron Race.
Speaker C:No, no, it doesn't sound enticing at all.
Speaker C:It never really has.
Speaker A:Katie and I were also just talking before you got on about how, like, I'm hearing all these, like, raves about Nice.
Speaker A:Like, oh, it's such.
Speaker A:It was such a cool course.
Speaker A:It was so cool.
Speaker A:Like, it really makes it interesting and.
Speaker A:Which is a little ironic since this was last year for the Ironman, but it feels like all these short course athletes, like, you guys are more used to world championships rotating.
Speaker A:You're not like, it's not like you've been to Kona 20 times, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, so I feel like they were more.
Speaker A:I feel like that's contributed to more than being more like, open to a new course, a different style, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I understand that Kona is iconic, but I do think it probably favors, like, one type of athlete.
Speaker B:And I think it's also like, you know, the world triathlon races, like, all these flat courses kind of favors one type of athlete.
Speaker B:So when you change this course, like, every other year or, like, I don't know, you could have like, three rotating courses or something like that.
Speaker B:I think it makes it more interesting because, you know, I think by all means, I think everyone watching this race probably said this was one of the most interesting races to spectate.
Speaker B:And at the end of the day, like, I think that's the fun part about watching sports is, like, you want it to be interesting, so.
Speaker A:Oh, for sure.
Speaker A:Well, speaking of interesting courses, you like that transition I was going to go.
Speaker C:Right into that was real smooth.
Speaker C:Real smooth.
Speaker A:So Carla Vivari was finally a wtcs and from.
Speaker A:Instead of a World cup.
Speaker A:And it played out very differently.
Speaker A:Like you were just saying from all of those flat, fast, like a.
Speaker A:Having an in like a hard bike.
Speaker A:Maya got away.
Speaker A:You broke up to.
Speaker A:Not broke up, bridged up to her.
Speaker A:I mean, does it feel different in the race for.
Speaker A:Instead of, you know, the.
Speaker A:The flat looped courses.
Speaker A:Like, are you like, oh, this is different.
Speaker B:I think going into this race, I knew it was a course that suited me.
Speaker B:I didn't know how well it would suit me, but I had come from training the Pyrenees, so I had a lot of mountains in my legs and climbing.
Speaker B:And I kind of also went into this race with a bit more of a mindset of how we used to race.
Speaker B:I felt like, kind of like the swim in the bike.
Speaker B:There was no, like, urgency.
Speaker B:And yeah, just before the race, as I was like doing my little race braids, I actually watched Katie's.
Speaker B:Katie's race from.
Speaker B: I think it was: Speaker B:It was like a week after, I think, anyway.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Is Katie and Jess in a breakaway.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, I'm just gonna like, channel this, you know.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker A:At the World cup that year.
Speaker B:At the World cup in Colorivar that year.
Speaker B:And yeah, it just kind of helped me remember what racing used to be like when it was more of like, you know, a challenging swim, a hard bike and like, you know, a run.
Speaker B:Like it was a full on triathlon versus just like, you know, sit and wait until the run.
Speaker B:So, yeah, and of course, like this.
Speaker B:I knew how much climbing there was.
Speaker B:I knew how well I was climbing and I just wanted to keep pushing the pace and see.
Speaker B:See what would happen as the race, as the race went on.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, it was pouring rain, which I think brought the race together a lot more than it would have been because we were just like, I was so overly cautious because I had heard about like one year when it was raining and you know, how slippery it was.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Well, I saw Jean crashed and I assume there were other crashes too, right?
Speaker C:Well, even the men.
Speaker C:Holy moly.
Speaker B:Yeah, there were quite a lot.
Speaker B:So I was trying to be.
Speaker B:I was probably overly cautious and yeah, Maya broke away on a lap just after people crashed and I had been a few back, so I had to like bridge up to her.
Speaker B:And luckily the.
Speaker B:The hills helped me a bit, but it took a whole lot to get back.
Speaker B:Back up to her and.
Speaker C:Yeah, when did you make that dis like you so my goes off the front.
Speaker C:You didn't.
Speaker C:You weren't able to like respond right away.
Speaker C:So what were you thinking?
Speaker B:Few people back.
Speaker B:I was like maybe like eight people back.
Speaker B:Like I was quite like, I had to bridge up and like pass people after some technical bits.
Speaker B:So it took me a while.
Speaker B:And she was riding so much better, technically.
Speaker B:I Mean us, you know, a Dutchie from rainy weather.
Speaker B:She's used to these conditions.
Speaker B:And as we all know, she's been racing professionally on ef.
Speaker B:So, yeah, she was just super smooth through all the corners.
Speaker B:And, like, I don't think she did anything crazy.
Speaker B:She was just, like, riding so well.
Speaker B:And I tried to bridge that gap.
Speaker B:And I think at one point, Liv and a few girls were on my wheel, and, like, I could tell at one point they couldn't pull through.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, no, I have to do this by myself.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And on the hill, I was like, okay, let's just, you know, channel my hill power and, like, try to do what I did back in in Leeds to, like, bridge a gap that I had done.
Speaker B: I think it was, like,: Speaker A:When you guys, like, both of you, when you're bridging gaps like that, like, what are you thinking?
Speaker A:Because I feel like it's very hard, right?
Speaker A:You're like.
Speaker A:It's very, very hard to tell yourself, like, go all in, catch that person.
Speaker A:What do you.
Speaker A:Do you ever think, like, oh, I'm not gonna be able to make it.
Speaker A:I. I can't do it sometimes.
Speaker C:Yeah, I feel like.
Speaker C:Not in the beginning.
Speaker C:In the beginning, you're like, I got this.
Speaker C:And then, like, partway through, you're like.
Speaker B:You're like, was this a good idea?
Speaker B:Did I just burn all my matches, or am I going to catch?
Speaker B:So, yeah, luckily, like, maybe Maya saw me coming, and she probably let up a bit, but at the end, I. I just tried my best to work with her, and luckily we got, like, quite a big gap just within, like, two laps on the other girls.
Speaker B:Um, but it wasn't enough to hold off Beth on the last lap, unfortunately.
Speaker C:But you ran, like, so strong and had one of, like, the third fastest run of the day.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker C:And I think a lot of people.
Speaker C:Or maybe.
Speaker C:Maybe this is incorrect, but we see you as, like, a swim cyclist and not always, like, the fastest runner.
Speaker C:But that was, like, such an impressive run and such an assertive run.
Speaker C:Coming out straight, like, straight out of transition, you took control of it.
Speaker C:You looked strong, powerful, and, like, I don't know.
Speaker C:It was really cool to watch.
Speaker C:So did that feel different to you or not?
Speaker C:Like, not really.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think definitely was a different feeling.
Speaker B:I think I'm used to coming out with a bunch of people who are faster than me, and, like, I'm used to running scared also, if we're in a breakaway and I'm getting caught.
Speaker B:So this was Like a new experience.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, I was running scared from bed, but I. I also was like, okay, let's do whatever we can to, you know, maybe get my first win.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I think on all fronts, it was a different mindset that I went into this race with.
Speaker B:And I think one thing I reflected on was, like, I remember one year Katie and I were on a relay in Abu Dhabi, and she's like, you can run well off a hard bike, so just go for it.
Speaker B:And this is the year I, like, broke away and I just went off the front on our relay.
Speaker B:And I tried to channel that a bit, too, so these things stick with me.
Speaker B:Katie.
Speaker C:It'S fun hearing you reflect on, like, all the different races.
Speaker C:Cause I. I did that too, like, throughout the career.
Speaker C:It's like you just stack up all these experiences that then you kind of, like, draw on.
Speaker C:And I think it.
Speaker C:It's very fun to listen to your Caravi Vari recap of, like, all these different aspects that played into this race.
Speaker C:Um, I was interested, like, when you said your mindset was different going into this race.
Speaker C:How so?
Speaker B:I think just watching, like, your race before actually helped me just remember what.
Speaker B:How we used to race a bit more aggressively.
Speaker B:And I think it's been a bit passive the last few years, I guess, the last year or so.
Speaker B:But it also helps that we came out, like, I came out of the front and I could have made that dynamic change, just like, you know, Jess would back in the day.
Speaker B:So, yeah, as the race went on, I, like, felt pretty good.
Speaker B:So I was just like, okay, let's keep going, let's keep fueling.
Speaker B:And I think these girls are suffering, but we'll see because I know I run well off of a hard bike and maybe some of them won't.
Speaker A:So you just tell yourself they won't.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, I hope.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Non and Katie, we were talking last week about how, like, it seems like it goes in waves.
Speaker A:Like, there was the years where, yeah, you would have, like, a lot of attacking on the bike and it would be more like break, like Flora years.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then you kind of like.
Speaker A:Or.
Speaker A:Or Jess.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, she changed the dynamic leader and then.
Speaker A:And then it kind of goes in and then we get back to, like, a runners.
Speaker A:A couple years of, like, more of a runner's race.
Speaker A:And maybe.
Speaker A:Do you think maybe it's changing again?
Speaker A:That would be nice.
Speaker B:I hope it's changing.
Speaker B:I mean, I. I guess in Fugis, I definitely saw a lot of initiative from Jess Vulgar, which I was really Impressed by.
Speaker B:Yeah, and she really made a big impact on that race.
Speaker B:And I think, yeah, without like a few people pulling the trace group, I think that breakaway would have stopped just because of, you know, her, her initiative and hopefully this continues.
Speaker B:But yeah, I think it will take, it'll take a bit of time and some people swimming hard from the front and you know, wanting to push the bike.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:You know, in Algara I think the girls did a really good job like Liv and Maya and yeah, everyone who is in that.
Speaker A:Right, so which, sorry, what?
Speaker A:WTCs are left before Wollongong.
Speaker B:So we have Weihai in a week and a half and then.
Speaker B:Yeah, then Wollongong.
Speaker B:But Weihai is not the old way high.
Speaker B:Unfortunately it does not have the massive hill.
Speaker B:So it might just be a way to run race, unfortunately.
Speaker B:But we'll see.
Speaker C:It only takes a few people.
Speaker B:There aren't very many people in this race.
Speaker B:So that's also.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you guys start?
Speaker C:Is this the one people are skipping?
Speaker A:Oh, people are skipping, yeah, which makes sense.
Speaker B:I think a lot of people are doing super try and I think taking the hill out has actually made it less appealing to people because I think a lot of, you know, people who consider themselves more of like a cyclist style triathlete or climbers, I think they would have probably gone to this race had the hill still been there.
Speaker C:Yeah, a lot of people liked it.
Speaker C:I haven't ever raced that course, but there was a lot of good feedback from people on the previous course.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it's just nice to have a variety of courses.
Speaker B:And I'm not saying that every course needs to have a hill, but I think just changing the types of courses instead of them having them just be these flat crits with a bunch of 180s that end up making every race the same is kind of not exciting.
Speaker B:And I think you saw in Kvari like how much the dynamics were changing throughout the race.
Speaker B:And as an athlete that was exciting, but I think as a spectator that was even more exciting to watch.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Coming from the other side now, I always of course enjoyed it as an athlete and so maybe that's part of my connection with these courses as well.
Speaker C:But when watching it I'm like, oh, it's so.
Speaker C:It is a lot more engaging to watch.
Speaker C:And I, I agree.
Speaker C:I think having the variety is really nice.
Speaker B:Like because we used to have.
Speaker C:I think all three were in the same where it was like Bermuda, Leeds and Lausanne.
Speaker C:Were they all in the same year?
Speaker C:They might not have been, but still, there were always, like, at least two races that had a more robust kind of circuit.
Speaker B:Those were hard.
Speaker B:Lausanne is right.
Speaker B:Very heavily.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Those are very challenging courses.
Speaker B:And the dynamics of the race changed completely, and that's what made it exciting.
Speaker A:What do you think determines?
Speaker A:Like, why?
Speaker A:Like, I know one of the things they always say is, like, they like these flat, looped spectacles because they're good for spectators.
Speaker A:But what else do you think?
Speaker A:Like, why do you think we end up with lots of those kinds of courses?
Speaker A:What is the reason here?
Speaker B:Honestly, I think the spectators like hills.
Speaker A:War.
Speaker B:Every time I'm on a hilly course, the hill is just line respect.
Speaker B:Yeah, they love it.
Speaker B:We're not going as fast.
Speaker B:You can, like, really see the suffering.
Speaker B:It's like Tour de France, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think I heard, for instance, like, say.
Speaker B:I think it was in Pontevedra, they, like, changed the course because they thought it was too dangerous for us or something.
Speaker B:Ridiculous.
Speaker B:But I'm like, this is our job.
Speaker B:We know how to ride through, you know, windy streets.
Speaker B:I do understand the safety aspect, but, like, give us a little bit of something.
Speaker B:Don't just have some out and back that I don't know.
Speaker A:Did you guys see in the nice course, the Iron Man?
Speaker A:Nice course.
Speaker A:On one of the parts of the descent, they put up these barricades to make the men slow down, but that meant that they had to, like, weave through the barricades and.
Speaker A:Because the front, like, you're saying the front pro guys are quite, you know, like, you guys do this for a job.
Speaker A:Like, so they're going really fast with weaving through the bearcage instead of slowing.
Speaker A:And that felt like more dangerous.
Speaker C:It's like slalom scheme.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was.
Speaker A:I was like.
Speaker B:I didn't do this, but I guess it makes sense if you have, you know, I mean, of course the pros know this course, like, inside and out, but when you have people coming to this course, probably for the first time ever, and, like, there's some, like, crazy turn that they're not anticipating.
Speaker B:I mean, I understand that.
Speaker B:Especially on, like, a windy descent.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:I was.
Speaker A:As you were talking about, well, maybe you could, you know, it just takes a few people in way high.
Speaker A:I was like, do you guys go around beforehand and try and recruit people?
Speaker A:Be like, hey, like, we could make a breakaway stick, like, because I know, I know you all are, like, on the circuit together and you all, like, know each other.
Speaker A:Do you, like, text each other and be like, I think we can do it.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:I think you kind of know who's, like, a strong swimmer.
Speaker B:And like, you kind of talk about, like, oh, like, this didn't work in the last race, so let's try to do this in this race.
Speaker B:But it's kind of just like on the start line, like, when you're waiting to get called out, or, like, oh, let's, you know, let's do this again, or.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't think it's really planned.
Speaker B:It's probably more planned within, like, your federation.
Speaker B:Like, I'm sure, like, the Brits have it all worked out, but.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't know what, Katie, what's your memories?
Speaker C:I. I agree.
Speaker C:I think you just start falling into the same kind of crew, and when you see that it's, like, working with them, then it becomes like, I feel like oftentimes, like, an unspoken agreement of, like, we're going to do this and we're going to work hard from the front and, like, work hard together.
Speaker C:And it's more frustrating when you have someone, like, join in that you, like, know isn't going to, like, work hard for the same end game.
Speaker C:Because, like, when you're all kind of honestly taking pools, trying to make the gap bigger, that feels different than when you're, like, this small group, but you have, like, one or two people who's just, like, hanging on.
Speaker C:And granted, some people really can't work, but other people, you're like, well, we're just, like, carrying you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, I think when you're in these breakaways, like, in.
Speaker B:In years past, when we had, like, a lot of breakaways, most of us would take turns.
Speaker B:Obviously, some people were stronger on some days, Others were stronger other days.
Speaker B:Like, some people were better technically.
Speaker B:Some people weren't as good technically, but you were always, like, you understood that, like, everyone was trying their best to, like, not get caught by the chase pack.
Speaker B:But yeah, if there's just that.
Speaker B:That one person or two people who just kind of, like, sit in and like.
Speaker B:Like, I'm, like, I. I just roll through.
Speaker B:Like, just roll through five seconds.
Speaker B:Like, you don't have to take a massive pull if you can, but, like, like, if you.
Speaker B:If you're not like, like, on the limit, red lighting, like, breathing heavily.
Speaker B:I know you can take a pull, so just help us out, because it's gonna do, like, it's gonna work to your advantage as well.
Speaker B:And sometimes I just don't understand.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, just work together.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker C:I guess, like, normally, sometimes, if you can't pull, like, you're just like, I'm sorry, gu.
Speaker B:Happening, like fill in.
Speaker C:But yeah, there's like the times where you.
Speaker C:And then there's the other times I.
Speaker A:Feel like where you've had the experience.
Speaker C:Of like getting someone to pull and then you're like, okay, never mind, like.
Speaker B:Just go sit back down or just like roll through.
Speaker B:Like, they don't have to.
Speaker B:Like, some people, they're having the best day ever.
Speaker B:Like, they can take a 30 second pull, other people can take a second pull.
Speaker B:It helps, like just contribute.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:And it's true that I think once you get like this kind of like smaller network of athletes working together that like race to race, you kind of like understand where everybody's head is at and where their motivation lies.
Speaker C:Because, like there might be a race where somebody who typically does a lot of work isn't working as much.
Speaker C:And it's often just because of like them feeling like crap on that day.
Speaker C:But it's like the, it's the bulk of the work and the bulk of the races where you start like, knowing.
Speaker C:And I mean, like Taylor and I raced for 10 years with a lot of the same people.
Speaker C:So you just, you just start knowing everyone.
Speaker A:That feels like such a mental game.
Speaker A:Like, in addition to, you know, all the training and the physical and the nutrition, it feels like you also have this whole element of like knowing everybody and their weaknesses and what they did yesterday and you know, it just feels, well, sp.
Speaker C:Like spivey.
Speaker C:Sorry, Taylor.
Speaker C:When, when you're like, right now I feel like you've raced with a lot of similar people and now you're experiencing this like, shift in athletes where you're racing with maybe not like new people, but like the, as you were mentioning, like the tactics have changed.
Speaker C:You, You've like experienced the races kind of changing over the past, like your career.
Speaker C:Is it weird?
Speaker C:Like learning new, new people?
Speaker C:Like learning new people again?
Speaker B:I would say, like the tactics really changed probably within the last year, but I didn't race a ton last year and I only did a few races this year, like, because I was doing some long course stuff and some other stuff.
Speaker B:So I really noticed it.
Speaker B:I guess the biggest change probably was after Paris.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:Or after the Grand Final when everyone kind of, you know, a lot of people retired.
Speaker B:But yeah, I think there's a bit more of a complacency because everyone, you know, is just looking at the runners or the runners are looking at the other runners in the group.
Speaker B:And like, I understand when it's a big pact, like, okay, no one's going to get away.
Speaker B:This is a flat course.
Speaker B:Like, nothing's really going to change.
Speaker B:But I do miss.
Speaker B:Yeah, I miss racing from the, the front and trying to make things happen and having, like, you know, people in a breakaway that do want to keep getting away and keep working together.
Speaker B:Like, I felt like I always trusted, like, Katie, Jess, Flora, Maya, Sophie.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, whenever we were in a breakaway, like, everyone was there to work together.
Speaker B:And now we're in a breakaway and it's like everyone's just, like, looking at each other and it's not the same.
Speaker A:It's not the same.
Speaker A:She misses the old days, Katie.
Speaker B:That's what I'm hearing.
Speaker C:I like reminiscing on those old days.
Speaker C:Do you feel like that's easier to do in the relay just because it's so short and you're just like, go, crush it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I do feel like, you know, the real the relay is so short you're just like going full send.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I don't know, maybe doing some long course stuff has helped me have a bit more of an engine to just like, keep pushing on the bike.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker C:I did think of that when I was watching you in Carlo Avi Vari.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, she's done a lot, like the.
Speaker C:All the long course stuff and just being like, yeah, on your own, like, did you feel that translate then or more just the hills?
Speaker C:The Pyrenees.
Speaker B:Pyrenees definitely see my strength.
Speaker B:But I did notice, like, on the flats, I was like, wow, no one can pull through.
Speaker B:This is weird.
Speaker B:Like, I'm small, but I do think it did translate, like, long term.
Speaker B:I. I wouldn't say I've been doing any, like, long course specific stuff since Vancouver because my TT bike broke.
Speaker B:But I've been doing, like, different training this year and in the last, like, since Paris, I have been doing more, like, longer efforts with, you know, and the training has been different.
Speaker B:So I think maybe my body finally has like, absorbed it a little bit.
Speaker C:Well, I feel like it challenges what every.
Speaker C:Not what everyone, but like the old, the older approach where it's like, okay, you do short course, then you do like, habs, then you do full ironman.
Speaker C:Because seeing you do well in, like, across the board is, like, very cool.
Speaker C:And it also shows that you don't have to necessarily specialize in a certain way and it can transfer both directions.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I think also, like, one thing I wanted to work on this year was my running because it has become a run race.
Speaker B:And yeah, I just Know that I am still progressing as an athlete and I'm doing my best to kind of like, mold myself to the race dynamic changes.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I guess what also is cool to see is like, I'm kind of like the oldest person on the start list, which is crazy because you're.
Speaker A:Like, what, you're like 32?
Speaker B:No, 34.
Speaker A:34.
Speaker B:Oh, there you go.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I'm still improving as an athlete and I think that's really cool.
Speaker B:I mean, mind you, I've probably done triathlon less than most of the people I'm racing for a short amount of time.
Speaker B:Katie and I got into this sport in our early 20s, but it's cool that I can still progress and work on things and try to focus on different areas of weakness as I try to adapt to how the race dynamics change.
Speaker C:I chatgpt for you because I wanted to see what, like, your run from when you first started was to, like, now what you're running and you can correct ChatGPT because it's not foolproof here.
Speaker C: tarted, you were running like: Speaker C:Like, does that sound pretty accurate?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker B:It's been like, definitely an evolution because like we said before, the races were more swim bike focused and now they're more run focused.
Speaker B:But also I didn't come from running like, you know, Katie did, so it's taken me a lot of years stacked on years stacked on, you know, top of each other to, I think, get to the point where I can sustain a high volume, which then translates to, you know, fast, faster running.
Speaker B:But it's taken, yeah, a long time.
Speaker C:Which I, like, love, just for everyone listening because I think it's so cool to like, not just come in as like a certain type of athlete, but see yourself evolve and like, yeah, your strengths are getting stronger, but also what you would have considered your weakness is now the third fastest run of the day and like a really hard race and like, that you bite the second fastest.
Speaker C:And I don't know where you came out of the swim, honestly, but, like, like, you were at the top for the whole race.
Speaker C:See, like, exactly.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it's neat to.
Speaker C:I, I always thought when people would ask, like, oh, like, what's your strength?
Speaker C:I'm like, well, it kind of depends on the day.
Speaker C:Nice.
Speaker C:Like, like, it's fun when you're able to say that for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I, I agree.
Speaker B:And it's, it's just Cool.
Speaker B:Like, as a triathlete, you can work on different disciplines and, like, one year focus on one thing and another year focus on something else.
Speaker B:And I think that's the beauty of having three sports to work with.
Speaker C:Do you think Car La Vivari was one of your best races?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker B:I think it was the first time I affected the dynamic of the race on my own, whereas before, I think it was a lot more.
Speaker B:I mean, mind you, Maya also, I think, played a huge role in the race.
Speaker B:But I think, yeah, it was the first time I felt like I really did this mostly on my own.
Speaker B:And in the past, I felt like it's kind of been like Jess or Flora or Katie.
Speaker C:I agree.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that was.
Speaker B:That was cool.
Speaker B:And I've never kind of, like.
Speaker B:I think I was, like, processing that during the race, and, like, I didn't really think about it much beforehand, but reflecting on it.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's something I'm proud of.
Speaker A:Does that change now, how you think you can affect the dynamic moving forward?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:But I think also this is a very unique course, and I know.
Speaker C:Don't make excuses for this.
Speaker B:Own it.
Speaker B:I really want to affect the dynamic in a more, like, favorable way, obviously, and positive way.
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:Looking back on this race, I do, like, obviously, always see areas of improvement, but I hope we can continue, you know, this progression.
Speaker A:We're gonna take a quick break, and then we're gonna come back and get more of all the updates from Taylor.
Speaker A:All right, Taylor, before we get into.
Speaker A:What is Taylor?
Speaker A:Where in the world is Taylor right now?
Speaker B:We're.
Speaker A:When you were talking about the mixed relay in Paris, I was like, oh, yeah, that was the moment of the Olympics for a lot of people.
Speaker A:The whole sprint finish.
Speaker A:What did it feel like being out there, you know, winning that silver medal?
Speaker A:Because you guys, at first you thought you won the bronze, right?
Speaker A:And then you found out you won the silver.
Speaker A:It was, like, crazy.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that was really special because, like, going into this race, I think all the athletes on our team, specifically, we underperformed, and we were kind of down, and we just needed, like, a mental reset.
Speaker B:And we were really supportive of each other.
Speaker B:We watched a Miracle on Ice because Maureen wanted to, like, instill some sort of inspiration.
Speaker B:And, yeah, I think.
Speaker B:I think it was, like, a very big team effort, which is fun to do in such a.
Speaker B:Like, solitary sport.
Speaker B:And, yeah, each one of us executed, like, a very good leg of our race.
Speaker B:And, like, when Nim was going into her final leg, I know she talks about how I was, like, a nervous wreck of a mother, but I. I was just trying to, like, boost her confidence and try to maybe, like, absorb the nervousness from her because, yeah, she, you know, had three shit days of racing or two.
Speaker B:And I was just like, I just want this one to be good for her.
Speaker B:And I know how strong she is.
Speaker B:Like, we all know how strong she is.
Speaker B:So I was just trying to, like, manifest that into her.
Speaker B:But if she thinks I was a stressful mother, that's fine.
Speaker B:But, yeah, going into that last leg, I was just trying to hype her up, and I knew what she was capable of.
Speaker B:And, yeah, that.
Speaker B:That was so exciting.
Speaker B:When it came down to, like, the three of them running, when they crossed the finish line, like, the boys were like, I'm pretty sure Nim got second.
Speaker B:And then they, like, announced that we were third.
Speaker B:And we, like, kind of accepted it.
Speaker B:And then we looked at the flags, and we were on the second.
Speaker B:Like, the American flag was on the second pole.
Speaker B:And I, like, was really confused, so I, like, asked.
Speaker B:I asked World Triathlon.
Speaker B:I was like, are we third or are we second?
Speaker B:Like, across.
Speaker B:Across this huge blue carpet, you know?
Speaker B:And they're like, no, you were second.
Speaker B:I was like, oh, my God, guys, we're second, not third.
Speaker B:And they're like, no way.
Speaker B:So we were right.
Speaker B:We knew.
Speaker B:No, got third.
Speaker B:So that was really exciting.
Speaker B:But it was kind of funny, too, because, like, yeah, we're just standing there like, we didn't know what was happening.
Speaker B:It all happened so quickly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's interesting.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You would think there'd be, like, a official announcement.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, it was so close, and I think they were just replaying the photo finish, and it was all on live broadcast, so.
Speaker B:Yeah, but that was a really special moment, and I think it was more special to share with other people, for sure.
Speaker A:And then, yeah, I feel like it was all over.
Speaker A:I mean, back here.
Speaker A:Well, I guess I wasn't even here.
Speaker A:I was in Paris with you guys.
Speaker A:But I feel like it was on the Today show.
Speaker A:It was, like, everywhere.
Speaker A:So people were very excited.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is always nice when triathlon gets, you know, mainstream publicity.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Aside from, like, Seth talking about how he micro dosed E. Coli by not washing his hands.
Speaker B:That was taken totally out of context, by the way, but something.
Speaker C:Glad you trumped that with the second.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:The silver medal.
Speaker B:Silver medal is a bit better after.
Speaker A:It seems like this year, kind of coming out of the Olympics, you've decided to try a bunch of different things.
Speaker A:Is that because I feel like you're doing T100 super try WTCs?
Speaker A:Are you doing anything else?
Speaker A:Am I like missing.
Speaker A:Are you also like pulling like a Georgia and gravel racing or something random?
Speaker B:No, no, I'm not doing any cycling races.
Speaker B:Um, yeah, going into this year I like touched on it to my coach a bit that I wanted to work on my run because like that seemed like how the races were transitioning.
Speaker B:I did some big run blocks and I think the training in general just changed a bit.
Speaker B:I think he was trying to like, I did a lot of like more longer sustained efforts that weren't like full gas throughout the last few months.
Speaker B:But in terms of like the racing, yeah, I wanted to do three series and then they changed the schedule and it kind of just didn't work in my plan and I kind of have been dealing with a bit of an injury so I've had to cut out a bit of Super Try unfortunately just because I had to cut something out.
Speaker B:So yeah, I think I'm more focused on world Triathlon and T100 this year.
Speaker B:But yeah, I'll be back at Super Try eventually.
Speaker B:But it's been really cool to see how I can adapt and you know, compete at different distances and I know I have a lot more to learn along course.
Speaker B:I need to ride my TT bike way more.
Speaker A:Say, do you have it fixed?
Speaker A:Is it still proof?
Speaker B:Yeah, I just got it, I just got it fixed.
Speaker B:It took a while because it was hard.
Speaker B:I didn't know it was broken and then it took a while to get the part.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's fixed now.
Speaker B:So I will go back to my long course era after Wollongong, but we'll call this like my short course break in the middle of the season and I'd like some redemption as I don't think I quite have performed as well as I would like to in T100.
Speaker B:But I just think this will take time.
Speaker B:Like I'm not the type of athlete who just like shows up and like does well.
Speaker B:Like I have to work pretty hard at things.
Speaker B:So everything, you know, in life, if you want to be good at it, it takes time.
Speaker B:So I need to work on my time trial position.
Speaker A:How many of the long course races have you done?
Speaker A:Like four or five?
Speaker B:Yeah, I did three last year and then I've done three this year but like two of them I was pretty sick.
Speaker B:Well, they were like back to back.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I, I would like, I wish I had the time and like my body was healthy enough for me.
Speaker B:To do one more T100 to replace the score.
Speaker B:But I'm.
Speaker B:I'm just gonna try to be smart and like, just.
Speaker A:You're gonna do the grand final, then.
Speaker B:I'll do Dubai and then the grand final in Qatar.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So some hot races hopefully.
Speaker B:Or maybe not.
Speaker A:Have you done any long course, Katie?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:We'd establish this.
Speaker A:You did like, like one.
Speaker A:Like one.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:You did the.
Speaker B:What was it called again?
Speaker B:I forgot.
Speaker C:Oh, no, wait.
Speaker B:It was like you raced for the Collins Cup.
Speaker A:Oh, that one.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker C:I just kept thinking C word.
Speaker B:C word.
Speaker C:C word.
Speaker A:Collins cup in the other era of the pta.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:But you did it on your road bike.
Speaker C:No, I did.
Speaker A:You did.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:No, no, no, no.
Speaker C:I actually did the TT bike.
Speaker C:I just hadn't ridden it very much.
Speaker A:Did someone give you a TT bike just for that?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Well, you got a specialized bike for that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:It has been not used very much by me.
Speaker C:Tommy's used it quite a bit though.
Speaker A:I was about to ask you guys, what is the hardest part coming over?
Speaker A:I know everyone talks about like spending time in the TT position, but I also like what you guys.
Speaker A:I mean, it's not like, like you guys all do enough volume.
Speaker A:Like, it's not like the volume is different.
Speaker A:Uh, so what is the hardest part coming over from short course racing to non drafting long course?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What did you find challenge the most challenging when you raised Collins Cup?
Speaker B:Katie, I'm curious.
Speaker C:I think for me it was always the mental side of things.
Speaker C:Like, I love the reward of like, you go hard, you're gonna catch the group or like go off the front and it's gonna make a difference to the race and you're, you're like rewarded for closing gaps because you're then with people where I think like, mentally just being able to like be in my own head and be solo.
Speaker C:That was the part that I always thought would be the hardest because I don't think I nailed the TT for like that race.
Speaker C:But I think I would have been able to close that gap with a little more experience.
Speaker C:So it would have been probably the mental side of just like less action.
Speaker B:I feel like you were really good at middle distance head.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You're like, oh man.
Speaker C:Maybe one day.
Speaker C:Maybe one day.
Speaker C:I'm very far from any fitness.
Speaker B:That's okay.
Speaker B:You have two children.
Speaker B:That's fine.
Speaker B:I agree with Katie.
Speaker B:Like, I, I think I find especially like the few races I did last year, I found like in the middle of the race, I would look down at my bike Computer.
Speaker B:And I would be like, oh, my God, I would be finished with an Olympic distance right now.
Speaker B:Like, this is so long.
Speaker B:And like, it probably didn't help that, like, people were just passing me on the bike.
Speaker B:I was just like, going backwards.
Speaker B:I was like, this is demoralizing.
Speaker B:But yeah, the races do feel long, which I think you also need to do some long, sustained efforts to get used to, and then it doesn't feel so mentally draining, like Katie said.
Speaker B:But I think it also helps when you kind of understand the dynamics of these races better, which I think I didn't know going into it.
Speaker B:And slowly learning is like, it's important to kind of like hold a wheel like, you know, at your.
Speaker A:At 12 meters.
Speaker B:At.
Speaker B:No, at 20 meters.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I. I don't know.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:It's taking me a while to figure it out.
Speaker B:But then you also don't want to overdo it because you have to run a lot farther and you have to learn how to eat and fuel and like.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's so much learning and, like, how to sustain power and not spike it too much.
Speaker B:And you know, what, you can hold over, like, the course of an ADK bike ride.
Speaker B:So, yeah, there's a lot of learning that I've been doing that I didn't know before.
Speaker A:You still though I have interesting or thought.
Speaker A:But you guys both still have only ever done long course where, like, the pros are totally separate.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, you've never done a, like, mix together with age groupers.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:See, I feel like I've talked like, whenever I talk to world triathlon people, they're always like, oh, my God, that would be like.
Speaker A:That's crazy.
Speaker A:Like having ancient, like mixing it all together, terrifying.
Speaker C:I always argue that that should then just become draft legal and do it on road bikes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because for sure you're gonna, like, if you're passing some guy who doesn't want to get checked, you know, he's just gonna, like, speed up and like, get in your way, and then you're just drafting the whole time.
Speaker B:So I think that wouldn't.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I would.
Speaker B:I don't think I would like that very much.
Speaker A:It's so funny because obviously, like, long purchase athletes, you know, if you came from 70.3 years, like, they're so used to it.
Speaker A:But yeah, all the shortcut athletes are like, no, that sounds crazy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think I'm grateful that I.
Speaker B:My introduction to middle distance has been through T100 because I think if it was through 70.3, I would just be like, so confused.
Speaker B:Like, I think I would really need to study the courses a bit because they're so long and they covered like, more public roads.
Speaker B:It's not totally enclosed like a world trial thon race.
Speaker B:And there's a lot more room for error that I would be very afraid of making a mistake.
Speaker C:Well, do people use maps like I would use maps?
Speaker C:Do they use maps or no.
Speaker C:Is that not a thing?
Speaker B:Yeah, I would use a map in a long course race.
Speaker B:I think that's interesting.
Speaker C:Is that not.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Kelly.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker A:I've never.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm sure.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's an interesting question because I'm sure people upload.
Speaker A:I've never done it, but I'm sure people upload routes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, that they could upload routes to their bikes.
Speaker A:Like, that's.
Speaker C:That's the only way I feel like.
Speaker B:I could do one that was just like, hey, go out for.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Unless it was a course you are familiar with.
Speaker B:But like, the first time you're doing a course, like, even in Call of.
Speaker A:Ui, I was like, what is this?
Speaker B:But like, if you've done it a few times, you know where you're going.
Speaker B:But the first time it's like, quite confusing.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I've never tried that.
Speaker A:Now I'm like, oh, maybe I should put a map into my.
Speaker A:Bye.
Speaker A:All right, before we finish up, Taylor, because Katie has to go.
Speaker A:I want.
Speaker A:I want, like, the Taylor update.
Speaker A:Like, where is Taylor living these days?
Speaker A:Are you still at the same training squad?
Speaker A:Are you coming back to the US Ever?
Speaker B:I did spend a bit of time in the U.S. i was in Flagstaff for like five weeks or so, which was.
Speaker B:And then San Francisco for two weeks.
Speaker B:So that was the longest I've been in the US for quite a few years, which was nice and different.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I live in Girona.
Speaker B:Although I would loosely say I live in Girona.
Speaker B:I kind of just live out of my suitcase.
Speaker B:I'm always traveling in at training camps because I find I perform better when I, you know, have some training partners.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I'm still with the same coach in the same group, and I have been for nine years with Paula Sousa and the triathlon squad.
Speaker B:And there's quite a few of us who have been here for eight or nine years.
Speaker B:So it's been like a good core group of.
Speaker B:Of women who have been here.
Speaker B:And now we have some voice too, which is nice.
Speaker B:And, yeah, I'm still going to do some.
Speaker B:I still have T1 hundreds on the race schedule.
Speaker B:I still have World Triathlon.
Speaker B:I think I need to be smart and maybe skip some super tri this year, but that's not.
Speaker B:Yeah, I won't be back next year.
Speaker B:I just need to make sure my body's not totally destroyed.
Speaker A:All right, I have a.
Speaker A:For both of you because you both traveled all the time or were, like, living out of the country.
Speaker A:What's, like, the thing you miss the most about when you're not in the U.S. you know, like, you know, some people are like, like, Australians are always, like, they always, like a weird Australian food they're always trying to, like, find here.
Speaker A:Or, like, right.
Speaker A:Like, Vegemite.
Speaker A:And my UK friends are always like, bring me back biscuits.
Speaker A:Like, what is your.
Speaker A:When you're not in the U.S. what's your, like, thing that you really miss?
Speaker B:Well, for me, I miss being able to get, like, packages very easily.
Speaker B:Like, you can just, like, order something online and it'll just be dropped off on your doorstep in the US you don't have to think twice about it.
Speaker C:Here.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, I need to check my email because I need to fill out a customs form and then I need to be here when they deliver it because, like, people will steal things off your doorstep and it just, like, takes the three weeks instead of three days.
Speaker B:And, yeah, this is such, like, a first world problem.
Speaker B:I understand.
Speaker B:But I do miss, like, the convenience of things in the US sometimes.
Speaker C:It's funny because I also always said, oh, I miss just having, like, a mailbox of, like, thing, like, everything to go to the same place.
Speaker C:But I think the other thing I.
Speaker B:Thought first was, like, having just your clothes just, like, in, like, in a cloud.
Speaker C:Like, granted the places you go have closets, but just, like, not having it.
Speaker B:Like, in the suitcase.
Speaker C:Yeah, like, and.
Speaker C:And bagels.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, you get really sick of your things in your suitcase after a while.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, I knew I like.
Speaker B:Obviously I probably like clothes a bit more than, like, your average triathlete, but I, I find that, like, once I've done a trip, I just, like, I put those things away and I'm like, okay, I'm wearing everything that I have now packed for the last, like, two months at camp because I am sick of wearing the same five things.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, yeah, you can just Amazon order, then shows up at your door the next day if you're here.
Speaker A:New clothes.
Speaker A:Well, thanks for joining us.
Speaker A:Katie has to run to her swim practice.
Speaker A:So cycling.
Speaker A:Cycling practice, whatever, Whatever you guys are practicing.
Speaker A:And good luck at the.
Speaker A:At the next races.
Speaker A:Stay healthy.
Speaker A:Attack off the front.
Speaker B:Yeah, they went by.
Speaker B:I'll try to channel my.
Speaker C:I was gonna say own it.
Speaker B:I'll just ask Katie for a pep talk before.
Speaker B:She's good at that.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:I'll be like, it's very simple.
Speaker B:Just go hard.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker C:Well done.
Speaker C:It's fun to.
Speaker B:Fun to watch you.