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A Ukrainian DJ who started injecting heroin at 16 to help him sleep, survived six overdoses on the streets of Kyiv, and became one of Europe's most forceful voices for harm reduction and HIV treatment access - now fighting to keep supply chains open during a war.

Summary

Anton was born in Kyiv in 1986, just before the Soviet Union collapsed. His parents were public servants on small salaries, and while they worked to feed the family, the streets outside were filling with new substances flowing through newly opened borders. He started using drugs at 14. At 16, someone told him heroin would help him sleep between DJ sets. It did, briefly, and then it took over everything. For 11 years, Anton lived rough in Kyiv - sleeping in stairwells, dodging police who saw drug users as easy shakedown money, and surviving six overdoses.

The door opened through a harm reduction programme. Someone offered him a clean needle, asked if he wanted a sandwich, and didn't start with the word "drugs." That encounter led to an HIV and hepatitis C diagnosis - and to the realisation that he wanted to transform his experience into work.

Today, Anton is a founding member of the Ukrainian Network of People Who Use Drugs and one of the most prominent HIV and drug policy advocates in Eastern Europe. Since the full-scale Russian invasion in 2022, he and his peers have been using personal vehicles to transport HIV medications to regions where logistics companies refuse to go, and building online platforms so people can receive treatment by courier rather than attending destroyed clinics.

Key Moments

• [01:18] Born in Kyiv, 1986 - growing up in the post-Soviet wild west, where the Iron Curtain opened to new freedoms and new substances simultaneously
• [05:57] Heroin as a sleeping pill - starting at 16 to manage exhaustion from DJing, and the moment the body realised it liked the euphoria too
• [07:04] Harm reduction vs. abstinence - why the 12-step model didn't fit, and the science that says success doesn't always mean stopping
• [08:03] The first harm reduction visit - being asked how he felt and whether he wanted a coffee, not lectured about his drug use
• [10:17] Eleven years as an ordinary street junkie - Groundhog Day on the streets of Kyiv, locked out of his parents' home, jumping at every sound in stairwells
• [12:02] Police and corruption - drug users as the easiest source of money for officers and doctors, and the threat of withdrawal behind bars
• [14:11] The dual diagnosis - HIV and hepatitis C, a positive test received as a death sentence, and the perverse logic of using more because you're dying anyway
• [16:43] War and supply chains - how the 2014 Crimea annexation and then Covid prepared Ukraine's HIV community for the 2022 full-scale invasion
• [19:36] Medication by courier - dismantling the old model of clinic-based collection, and community members driving HIV treatment through war zones in their own cars
• [22:23] If Ukraine falls - what Russian occupation would mean for harm reduction, opioid therapy, and the LGBTQ community, and why Anton believes it won't happen

Dedication

Anton remembers Egor, a childhood friend from the pioneer camps whose parents worked alongside his at the Ministry of Interior - one of the first people he lost to the heroin epidemic. He also remembers a brother and sister from his neighbourhood who both died of HIV-associated tuberculosis, leaving children behind.

About Anton

Anton was born in Kyiv in 1986. He is a founding member of the Ukrainian Network of People Who Use Drugs and a leading HIV and drug policy advocate in Eastern Europe. He is a DJ and a father, and takes one pill every morning at nine o'clock. He is the podcast's first Ukrainian guest.

Resources

• Ukrainian Network of People Who Use Drugs
• Eurasian Harm Reduction Association
• Terrence Higgins Trust
• National AIDS Trust

If you have been affected by the themes in this episode, support is available at tht.org.uk.

Mentioned in this episode:

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Dan Hall

Welcome to 'HIV: The Morning After'. I'm Dan Hall. I'm a documentary producer and director. I've spent my entire adult life watching ignorance and prejudice play out around HIV. And frankly, I'm tired of it. And I'm sure many of you are too.

This podcast is an attempt to do something about that. By doing what I do best, interviewing people and letting them tell their own stories.

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Right then, let's get started.

Dan Hall

My guest today is Anton. He was born in the Soviet Union and grew up in Ukraine. He started using drugs at 14 and by 16 he was injecting. But he wasn't looking for a high. Working as a DJ, he was exhausted. And someone told him that heroin would help him sleep. It did. And then it didn't. For 11 years, Anton lived on the streets of Kyiv.

Dan Hall

He survived six overdoses, and he came within weeks of dying, not once, but six times. Then a door opened, a harm reduction program, a clean needle and a diagnosis. HIV and hepatitis C, both at the same time. What happened next is a story of transformation. Today, Anton is one of the most powerful HIV and drug policy advocates on the planet.

Dan Hall

He's also a DJ, a father, and a man who takes one pill every morning at 9:00. Anton, welcome to HIV the morning after.

Anton Basenko

Thank you. Then we're really glad to be here.

Dan Hall

So could we start, please, by finding out a bit about you? Where did you grow up?

Anton Basenko

Dan Hall

And what was the DJ scene like in post-Soviet Kyiv in the mid-nineties?

Anton Basenko

It was amazing because it was a virgin land. I'm like the second wave of DJ. So there was a some group of like the really the first pioneers. So we were rather there, there students are no students. But yeah, at that time there was no DJ schools, you know, in the cities we all learned by by ourselves.

Dan Hall

Anton Basenko

Yeah. That's true. Why is it that it's so challenging times? So on one hand, Iron Curtain for. Right. So it's opened, then opened our borders to wait for everything people could go, could go abroad and to see what is the world, you know, behind it, behind this, former Soviet Union border. But also for things like new drugs or substances started to, to come to Ukraine.

Anton Basenko

On the other hand, it was very difficult time and many people were poor. Though both of my parents are public servants, both worked for ministries, one for Ministry of Interior and another for Minister of Fuels. So public servants who received very small salaries. Parents were busy with, you know, feeding the family. And we were exploring the streets with new substances, new opportunities, new things.

Anton Basenko

Yeah, it was, as we say, it was like a wild west in a sense, you know, not in.

Dan Hall

And of course, erupts into this. As you mentioned briefly earlier, you have a whole lot of brand new substances coming in, such as amphetamine, ecstasy, cocaine. And I think it's really important to say, I think this conversation needs to be very non-judgmental about drug use. There's a line in Trainspotting that I always loved where, Renton, who's the lead character, says, it feels brilliant.

Dan Hall

Of course it feels brilliant. We're not stupid. That's why we do it.

Anton Basenko

Yeah.

Dan Hall

You know, and and I think it's important to have that conversation. And that isn't the same conversation as encouraging people to take illegal drugs. But it's also idiotic to have an adult conversation and not acknowledge that people have taken drugs and are taking drugs because they feel good.

Anton Basenko

Now they do to feel good or or there can be a number of other reasons which which sometimes people really cannot imagine or cannot accept. It can be like inter interest to experiment. Sometimes it's yeah, it can be just a like a health condition or well but but to feel good I think yeah. And my position if you are a doctors and it's your, it's your right.

Anton Basenko

How what, what what kind of substances or what do you use to feel good. You know.

Unknown

Dan Hall

So you have all of these new drugs coming in to give, without much knowledge around them. And you're struggling with your sleep, and a friend suggests heroin to you to help you sleep. And like I said in the introduction, at first it works, but then it doesn't work. So when did you start to realise something was up?

Anton Basenko

I started to use Aaron as a sleeper few. It worked it first time, but then, through that sleeping in sedation, you your body of course realising that you feel some. So it's cool. You feel high euphoria. You feel some feelings which you never felt and you kind of you, you realise at some point that you like it, you know, and it's not only sleeping what you're seeking in this synthetic.

Dan Hall

Yeah. And I've always had a bit of an issue with the concept of absolute sobriety and 12 step programs, because I do feel that it can kind of bait and kind of push out more nuanced conversations around things like, like harm reduction.

Anton Basenko

Considering the drug use drug dependence issue, the the only, understanding of the success in treatment of a person with drug dependence was considered as only the full stop of using and being kind of clean. And this so-called abstinence philosophy in ten, 15 years, the new data in new research told us that, no, the nature of dependence is different.

Anton Basenko

The success of treatment is not necessarily so of of of using it can be repeated cycles of using or it can be just, how to say you can, keep the harm under certain control or reduce the harm.

Dan Hall

And in society, I think people can be very judgemental around any, but they need addictive behaviours. So for you going into spaces with other people who also experience addiction must have been incredibly relieving, freeing it.

Anton Basenko

It was such a pleasant, experience when, first of all, when you can be open about your status as a user, completely open. You don't need to hide. Because even the fact of all the time controlling and hiding how you look like, what you see, where you go so that you know to to you always to be a little bit like underground or invisible or semi visible.

Anton Basenko

It's not knowing about drug use. You can be open, but it's not people rather would ask you would ask you first about how is it going? How do you feel about maybe do you, do you want to? Do you want some coffee or tea? You want a sandwich? Are you hungry? So so all these things about it, it's not like you came to the doctor, you know, with some health condition.

Anton Basenko

And of course, the conversation from A to Z is always about disease, symptoms and things like that. Harm reduction is different. Yes. It is a help and supports to to to people in use. But when you come there it's not it's not like you're talking about drugs. It's it's really about your, basic needs first. And when I, when I became a harm reduction clients, at some point I realised that everything was happening in my life before all that experience.

Anton Basenko

I really want to transform to, to, to, to to work in harm reduction and to support all my peers really, you know, bringing all my knowledge and all my passion and all my empathy to, to to to to people who are in, in that challenging moment like I was or I am where you.

Dan Hall

But of course, for you, this change didn't come in in an instant, did it? You know, the happy life didn't come quickly, and you've described yourself as living an extended period of time as, and I quote an ordinary street junkie. Tell me about that.

Anton Basenko

You know, it was like a exactly like Groundhog Day movie. You know, it's literally like that. But of course, because I explain to you a bit about my parents and my, my, my, my, my background. So of course, even the fact that you cannot.

Anton Basenko

Come back home because doors are locked, you don't have a keys and you're not welcome, and you should find a way to sleep somewhere outside. And, you know, sometimes it's just some place in the apartment buildings where a door was opened, the entrance door and you can find some, you know, hidden corner and just spend some hours every time jumping from some sound because someone entering someone can find you.

Anton Basenko

Someone can call police. Yeah. At the same time, police as such, because I explained you using is criminalisation. And unfortunately at that time I do I police was very much corrupted. Well we still observe of course some level of corruption I think. But Ukraine is very near especially now with war trying to you know to, to to, to, to, to, to, to, to fight with, with the but at that time drug users was considered for two categories of people policemen and doctors as the most easy source of money because policemen can just using their authority and power, just scaring you that you will go, you will be now imprisoned.

Anton Basenko

I will take you to the, to the, to the units and you will be present for one day, two days. And you know that if you are locked in this, behind the bars and then you have withdrawal, it's it's it's awful, you know, you so you of course, if you have some money, you will you will better be to, to be released the same.

Anton Basenko

Not not the same, but with the doctors, you come to them with some, all the they can help you. But again, because that was a time of completely unregulated field of of the help, and treatment of the drug dependence, many doctors was just telling you, I can treat you. And they propose, in fact, completely bullshit or some spiritual things which are nothing to do with science or with evidence based medicine.

Anton Basenko

So. Yeah, but but you, especially you or your parents, you, you every time you hope, you trust that they can help you pay money. But that's the only but but nothing happening.

Dan Hall

And of course, many of your contemporaries didn't make it out alive, did they?

Anton Basenko

Yeah, yeah. That's true, that's true. And, if one day you are in Kyiv, for instance, we can go to some cemeteries and there are full sectors with graves of people. You will see by the date of birth and date of death. It's really young people died more or less the same. So it's the same generation. They died more or less the same period of time.

Anton Basenko

Part of the people, also, in fact, it wasn't it had been infected with HIV or hepatitis. And that time there was no available treatment. Then you imagine that to to receive your access to treatment, you had to wait until your CD4 cells dropping less than 200. So in fact your body is entering the Aids stage. So someone telling you why you should start dying so that we can start helping you.

Anton Basenko

Can you imagine that? You.

Anton Basenko

Anton Basenko

So how long I can still stay? What is that period of time which which I still can have? Like, you know, like when, when you when someone telling you or informing you about your cancer and then they, they give you some kind of a forecast. They saying that okay it's you have like around six months to I do know to a year when that was something similar and and that's plain also the joke with the drug users because when you think that it is a death sentence, you, you take your, life, you take this moment and the situation not as a change to, to chance to positively to to to pay more attention and

Anton Basenko

to to change something to the maybe to to to positive to some to positive benefit. But, I thought, okay, if I anybody if I'm anybody dying and I will die soon, I can just use whatever I want without any borders, without any, you know, limits. Just getting high, just having fun because it's like you're doing you like you are celebrating your last days of life.

Dan Hall

Now then, Anton, know Ukrainian. And at the time of recording, your country has been invaded by Russia and is a war with it. Do you worry that the delivery pipeline for things like HIV meds is going to be affected by this conflict? I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be. I'm already hearing stories. You know, the prep is tough to come by for soldiers on the frontline.

Dan Hall

What are your thoughts on this?

Anton Basenko

Anton Basenko

And we went through that first lessons of, you know, losing the operating the supply chains, losing the access to, to, to, to, the specific treatments like HIV therapy. We actually went there and, and then later when Covid happened, on one hand, we, we, we were prepared. So, I mean, we already knew how to respond, how to build urgently alternative supply routes, how to.

Anton Basenko

Yeah. So for instance, my peers from Ukrainian network of people who use drugs, I'm one of the founding member. They they use even their like organisational vehicles to transport HIV treatment or to, to, to, to the regions near because usually these specific companies. But when companies refuse to do that by the security reasons or, you know, then people from communities step in and they say, okay, I have a car I can transport because I know that somewhere there in in the hundreds to 200km, there are, I don't know, like thousands people in need of, of this treatment.

Anton Basenko

I can do that. You know, I can risk nothing.

Dan Hall

You tested HIV positive in Ukraine and have a good idea of how the support systems works. I mean, you're not in the country at the moment, but nonetheless.

Anton Basenko

What do you.

Dan Hall

Think the state is likely to be of of those same support systems which were so important to you?

Anton Basenko

Anton Basenko

No, you don't need it. You can be sent by by mail or with some courier. You. So there are lots of online platforms which gives you connection, immediate connection, online connection with your right to know within the also in working in HIV service or with that health care facility or altogether. And then they just provide they did they just send it to you because of course with Russian missiles, by the statistics, there are more than 300 health care facilities completely destroyed and demand those facilities.

Anton Basenko

Also, the one which was specifically focusing on work with people living with HIV or infectious diseases, local logical dispensaries, working with these people with strong dependence. So, yeah, that that is the real with you. What physically, we are losing access to the points and or some territories can be occupied. And we know that, when the Russian Russians come into some territories, what happened them in Crimea, because they are completely bending things like opioids against their people, harm reduction, of course, of this program stop or they or they go to complete underground.

Anton Basenko

But it's very risky then for for the life of people who implement that, then you always should find the alternatives. One of the alternatives is we provide some shelters and support for internally displaced people. So if person decides, okay, I can no longer stay in my town or my house is destroyed, I need another place of leaving and with access to specific treatment, then there are people in specific contacts and hotlines.

Anton Basenko

They can help them to move. They can pay even for their tickets or meet with the like to help with some evacuation, with some volunteers, then at their new place or where they are displaced, they, link them, put them in contact with, link them with the, the doctors or social services. Yeah. And now we have the full new group of people in need of specific, including HIV or hepatitis, because, you know, the there are injuries, blobs, the contacts, on the front line when you're injured and you know, you have an open source of blood leukaemia, it's also we this is all what is happening and someone should work with these veterans

Anton Basenko

or. Yeah. So it's it's a new reality for, for Ukraine. But I think we really doing good.

Dan Hall

But and this is a difficult question to ask you, but if Ukraine were to fall to Russia, how do you feel HIV support HIV provision would be affected?

Anton Basenko

I do believe that Ukraine will not fall. And strategically Russia already like lost. I mean, it's important to understand if Ukraine falls, it's then Russia will go further. Then it would be a problem not only for Ukraine in your question must be extended not only to Ukrainian community but to Baltic states, Poland, everywhere where Russia have intentions to to get back these territories, to to come back with their power, empire power like in this post World War two times.

Anton Basenko

But if we hypothetically imagine that it would happen. Yeah. First of all, it would be a splash, I think, a new splash of. Yeah, it's a deaths of thousands and thousands of new people. Because what we observe in Russia, due to their political regime in completely, completely closed space for civil societies, banned harm reduction officially and, opioid abuse therapy, even mentioning of which publicly can be considered as a propaganda of drug use.

Anton Basenko

And all this war with the LGBTQ community, all these, foreign agent laws, all these initiatives to to push the LGBT activities, or political opposition activists from ODS from there. So and we see that, of course, epidemic number of regions on Russian epidemic already went from concentrated to generalised. So it's leaked from specific groups to the general population.

Anton Basenko

And this is happening when, when, when when country really doesn't, doesn't make a proper war, you know, especially because it's a huge country. It's a difficult to, to, to, to, to manage. Sometimes it would be, oh it would be a hell. So I'm, I am really I wish that we always remember that and do all our collective efforts to, to counteract to, to, to overcome that.

Anton Basenko

And I think it's possible.

Dan Hall

Now then, Anton, as part of the format of the show, in these last moments of our recording together, is there someone with whom you would like myself in the audience to pause for a moment with you and take a moment of remembrance?

Anton Basenko

There is one person. His name was Eger. And, our parents, he and my parents and his parents worked in the Ministry of Interior. And when we were kids, we know each other from work. Really early childhood because we went together to like the pioneer camps, summer camps. And we know each other much earlier than we both started, started to use or something like that.

Anton Basenko

And, unfortunately he was one of the first friends, but because we know each other like long ago, I think he was the first, person who passed away from that heroin epidemic when it just started. It happened quite fast. I think it was oral dosage or something because, you know, he was first, first of of the people.

Anton Basenko

And of course, when it's first ever and it's the person who your friends from the childhood is something which they very, you know, laws in Japan. So you heard and there are other, friends from my neighbourhood, but they were brother and sister, and in fact, sister also gave birth to the child, and they both passed away from tuberculosis as a consequence of their HIV.

Anton Basenko

Unfortunately, in Ukraine, up to 65% of deaths of people living with HIV caused by tuberculosis, but TB associated with HIV. And and again, knowing that today the science and pharma industry so well developed and these medications, the most modern medications are there to have, such a silly, stupid death, especially when dying person leaving the kids after her and in the kids.

Anton Basenko

And then her husband also passed away from drug use. So three all these three be persons.

Dan Hall

And now, then and so on. It's our final question of the episode. Normally, I ask the guests to give a general postcard to the world with a message on it. But I'm going to ask you something a little bit different. This podcast is downloaded in Ukraine, so I would like to ask you to send a direct message to people in Ukraine who are living with HIV.

Anton Basenko

So as Ukrainians, we are strong, is a community of people living with HIV. I think we really showed the greatest experience of community mobilisation and how how, how, because people living with HIV was first on their car and in this advocacy and in, in, in, in, in building that collaboration with, with the government and advocating and bringing all these critical changes in access to treatment, improving quality of, of the treatment, and bringing all other innovations, and, and this experience is replicated now by other countries of the regions and other countries of the world.

Anton Basenko

I think we always should remember, we, we are by in years. We are strong. And we will win.

Dan Hall

Anton, thank you very much for coming and guesting here on HIV the morning after. Thank you for being our first Ukrainian guest.

Anton Basenko

Thank you. It was it was really, really interesting. And this is.

Anton Basenko

So.

Dan Hall

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Dan Hall

And remember, if you encounter HIV stigma and a bar, call it out. If you encounter it at work, call it out. If you encounter it online, call it out. Because if you don't, you're part of the problem.

Dan Hall

The theme tune is by Paul Leonidou at Unstoppablemonsters.com, and many thanks to Moray Laing for his continued support. And thank you for listening. Join me next time for another important conversation on HIV the morning after I've been Dan Hall.