Today’s guest is one of the best communicating CEOs I’ve seen for some time. He’s accessible whilst clear about his boundaries, he lives his values, his pride for his county shines through, he recognises the role he plays as a champion and challenger for his sector. And he does it with a humility and good humour. I could have chatted to him all day.

I'm delighted to welcome Nick Atkin, CEO of Yorkshire Housing, to the podcast. Nick is a disrupter in his industry and regularly cited as a top influencer for the housing sector. We talk about:

• building culture, breaking down hierarchy
• what it's like working in the housing sector
• recruiting and testing for values
• what he looks for in his senior team
• building the right infrastructure to work in the best way
• how to get the best out of his team and treating people like adults
• communicating with colleagues and how it's changed since the pandemic
• working on quarterly achievable instead of annual targets and how he got the Board aligned with that approach
• the elements of a good Board
• why it's important to be visible online
• influencing and shaping policy
• developing your voice
• what inspires transformation
• advocating for people they support in areas outside of their control
• boundary-setting, managing expectations and being present
• advice for aspiring senior leaders

Resources and helpful links

If you want to transform your leadership impact book a free consultation call with me

About leaders with impact

Want to know the secret of great leaders? In Leaders with impact we'll be exploring what makes an impactful leader; sharing stories of success and strategies that set them apart.

If you are ambitious for your organisation but are struggling to identify what you can do differently as a leader to deliver the right improvements, then hit subscribe to learn how you can get clear on your strategy, implement some self-leadership and connect with those you serve.

New episodes are released every fortnight.

Get in touch

If you enjoyed the episode please leave a review on Apple podcasts (or your app of choice) and let me know what you thought on LinkedIn or instagram.

I’ll be back with the next episode in two weeks so in the meantime remember to sign up to my newsletter to get notified of new episodes, guest appearances and further insights on how to lead with impact.

Lee Griffith: 00:00:03

Today's guest is one of the best communication

Lee Griffith: 00:00:05

CEOs I've seen for some time. He's accessible was clear about

Lee Griffith: 00:00:09

his boundaries he lives his values his pride for his county

Lee Griffith: 00:00:12

shines through. He recognizes the role he plays as a champion

Lee Griffith: 00:00:16

and challenger for his sector. And he does it with humility and

Lee Griffith: 00:00:20

good humor, I could have chatted to him all day. I'm Lee Griffith

Lee Griffith: 00:00:24

communication strategies executive coach and all round

Lee Griffith: 00:00:27

champion of leaders who shun the old school stereotypes. I'm here

Lee Griffith: 00:00:30

to help you get clear on your strategy, implement some self

Lee Griffith: 00:00:33

leadership and connect with those you serve through your

Lee Griffith: 00:00:35

communications so that you can deliver improved organizational

Lee Griffith: 00:00:39

performance, engagement and reputation. Sign up to my

Lee Griffith: 00:00:41

newsletters to receive even more useful insights into how to be

Lee Griffith: 00:00:44

an impactful leader. You can also find out how I can support

Lee Griffith: 00:00:47

your organization to better connect with the people it

Lee Griffith: 00:00:49

serves. Visit SundaySkies.com. To find out more. Today's guest

Lee Griffith: 00:00:54

is Nick Atkin, CEO of Yorkshire housing, Nick as a disruptor in

Lee Griffith: 00:00:58

his industry and regularly cited as a top influencer for the

Lee Griffith: 00:01:01

housing sector. We talked about building the right culture,

Lee Griffith: 00:01:05

tackling transformation, how to influence and take people with

Lee Griffith: 00:01:08

you, earning Trust, the importance of communications and

Lee Griffith: 00:01:11

what it feels like to be in the 5am. Club. Enjoy.

Lee Griffith: 00:01:23

So I'm delighted to welcome Nick back into the leaders of impact

Lee Griffith: 00:01:27

podcast. Thank you so much for agreeing to come on, I am going

Lee Griffith: 00:01:31

to head straight into the first question. And it's one I asked

Lee Griffith: 00:01:34

everyone and that is what does impactful leadership mean to

Lee Griffith: 00:01:38

you?

Unknown: 00:01:40

Oh, that's interesting, isn't it? Because I think most

Unknown: 00:01:43

of us are in leadership roles I've got here by luck, rather

Unknown: 00:01:47

than any particular gentleman. So I suppose in some ways, for

Unknown: 00:01:51

me, being impactful means that people buy into what you're

Unknown: 00:01:55

trying to do. I too many organizations probably focus on

Unknown: 00:01:59

processes and policies and strategies. And for me, at the

Unknown: 00:02:04

end of the day, we can have all of that. But if people aren't

Unknown: 00:02:07

bought into the journey, and if the people don't believe in you,

Unknown: 00:02:11

as a leader, if you're not authentic, if you're not

Unknown: 00:02:14

genuine, then I think particularly in the last five

Unknown: 00:02:17

years, I've seen that really shift and if you haven't got

Unknown: 00:02:20

that, then you just can't have impact. I think for me, it's the

Unknown: 00:02:25

whole cultural piece. I know sort of that there's a saying

Unknown: 00:02:29

that culture eats strategy for breakfast, but I think it's

Unknown: 00:02:31

absolutely the one thing that I've taken from my career is the

Unknown: 00:02:36

absolute importance of culture. And that's why as chief exec,

Unknown: 00:02:40

I'm the as I say, I'm the custodian of the culture for how

Unknown: 00:02:44

our 800 people deliver services to the people who live in our

Unknown: 00:02:47

20,000 homes.

Lee Griffith: 00:02:48

I love that custodian of culture. I've

Lee Griffith: 00:02:51

definitely got questions about culture lined up for us to

Lee Griffith: 00:02:54

discuss, I won't get into that straightaway. But I completely

Lee Griffith: 00:02:57

agree with the sentiment, I want to take you back a little bit

Lee Griffith: 00:03:00

and try to understand what's shaped you as the person and the

Lee Griffith: 00:03:06

leader that you are today.

Unknown: 00:03:08

It is interesting. When I look back on my career, I was

Unknown: 00:03:11

promoted to leadership roles, because I was good at what I did

Unknown: 00:03:14

operationally, rather than because I was either a good

Unknown: 00:03:16

leader of people or that I could think about strategy and long

Unknown: 00:03:20

term direction and all those things that were sort of

Unknown: 00:03:22

shrouded in mystery. I think it's better now than it was for

Unknown: 00:03:26

people coming into leadership roles. And it's a lot more

Unknown: 00:03:28

focused on coaching and mentoring. And certainly I act

Unknown: 00:03:31

as a coach and a mentor for people in their career. But I

Unknown: 00:03:35

think it's about for me, it's about getting to understand the

Unknown: 00:03:38

individuals that are around you getting to understand what makes

Unknown: 00:03:41

them tick, what motivates them, what D motivates them as well,

Unknown: 00:03:46

and having more of a sort of bespoke style with the people

Unknown: 00:03:50

around you. And I think that the other thing I'd say is being

Unknown: 00:03:54

really clear. Less is most definitely more, I have a really

Unknown: 00:03:59

low boredom threshold. So most of my colleagues know anything

Unknown: 00:04:03

over two pages, I ain't gonna read it. I'm not interested. I'm

Unknown: 00:04:07

a massive fan of infographics. I think they really help land

Unknown: 00:04:10

messages. Also, I think most businesses overcomplicate what

Unknown: 00:04:14

they do. For example, my business model was a housing

Unknown: 00:04:17

association, really simple. We build or acquire homes, we let

Unknown: 00:04:21

them we repair maintain them when we collect the rent. It's

Unknown: 00:04:24

pretty straightforward. If you spoke to some of my colleagues,

Unknown: 00:04:27

they probably have a very different an overly complicated

Unknown: 00:04:32

view of what we do. So I think for me, it's about simplifying

Unknown: 00:04:35

things. What would I tell my younger self? Probably to not

Unknown: 00:04:40

worry about what other people think because I got into quite

Unknown: 00:04:43

senior when I was a chief executive 36 I had no clue what

Unknown: 00:04:47

I was doing absolutely no clue whatsoever, but I'm worried for

Unknown: 00:04:51

probably 10 years around I know you're thinking blinding you

Unknown: 00:04:54

only for like

Lee Griffith: 00:04:56

no I was just picking my job up then.

Unknown: 00:05:00

I think sometimes you worry too much about what other

Unknown: 00:05:02

people think about you and prove yourself. And the sooner you can

Unknown: 00:05:06

get comfortable in your own skin and recognize that you're gonna

Unknown: 00:05:08

make mistakes. And that's fine. And you can learn from them. So

Unknown: 00:05:13

I think it's easier, slightly easier now for people coming

Unknown: 00:05:15

into leadership roles perhaps than, than it may have been in

Unknown: 00:05:18

the past. But for me, learning from other people who you

Unknown: 00:05:21

admire, I've had the privilege of working alongside probably

Unknown: 00:05:24

three people have really helped shape me as a leader, I've

Unknown: 00:05:27

looked at what they do, and they've operated and been in awe

Unknown: 00:05:30

of them. But also, likewise, I've worked with some people in

Unknown: 00:05:34

leadership roles, who I've looked at and thought I will

Unknown: 00:05:36

never, ever do what they're doing, if I get an opportunity

Unknown: 00:05:40

to do what they do. So I think it's a combination of the two,

Unknown: 00:05:43

the

Lee Griffith: 00:05:43

point you make about your promoted because you

Lee Griffith: 00:05:46

are good at what you did is something that I do still see

Lee Griffith: 00:05:49

with people that I work with that you get promoted up in your

Lee Griffith: 00:05:53

area of expertise. And then suddenly you get to this kind of

Lee Griffith: 00:05:55

higher tear, and it opens out. And you've got to have this

Lee Griffith: 00:05:58

umbrella view across the organization. I'm interested how

Lee Griffith: 00:06:01

you manage that transition, and what you had to, I suppose

Lee Griffith: 00:06:05

unlearn, maybe to the step into a broader role.

Unknown: 00:06:09

I find it really, really hard, almost up, man, I

Unknown: 00:06:13

really struggled with that, because I clung on to the fact

Unknown: 00:06:16

that I felt I needed to know everything about anthem, and,

Unknown: 00:06:19

and be a subject matter expert and everything. One of the key

Unknown: 00:06:23

points for me was when I probably learned that actually,

Unknown: 00:06:26

two things really, firstly, that it's about knowing the right

Unknown: 00:06:29

questions to ask, you don't need to know everything, what you do

Unknown: 00:06:32

need to do is to have fantastic people around you. So it's a bit

Unknown: 00:06:35

like a football manager, you don't actually have to play on

Unknown: 00:06:37

the pitch. But you have to know what key players are in the key

Unknown: 00:06:40

roles, and how to get the best out of them. And that, for me is

Unknown: 00:06:43

often about asking the right questions. And I think if I'm

Unknown: 00:06:47

also being honest with you, I also abide by the 2% rule, which

Unknown: 00:06:51

is that you only need to know 2% More than the person you sat

Unknown: 00:06:55

opposite to sound credible. So in some ways, not having to know

Unknown: 00:07:00

100% about everything, but knowing enough to be credible,

Unknown: 00:07:04

and to make a valid contribution and to make the right decisions

Unknown: 00:07:08

is probably more important. That's probably the hardest

Unknown: 00:07:12

transition of my entire career moving away that comfort blanket

Unknown: 00:07:16

almost of knowing everything about everything. Yeah, you've

Lee Griffith: 00:07:20

worked in the housing sector for a number of

Lee Griffith: 00:07:22

years from now, What's kept you there. I

Unknown: 00:07:28

love it. I love it. As a sector, I just think I mean,

Unknown: 00:07:31

I've doubled in health. So I was a non exec director for 60 G,

Unknown: 00:07:35

and also prior to that PCT and I just found health just far too

Unknown: 00:07:39

frustrating. It's a huge being. So now it's under with your

Unknown: 00:07:42

background. It's an absolute monster. And I think the ability

Unknown: 00:07:46

to make changes at a level you certainly can do at a local

Unknown: 00:07:49

level or not necessarily a wider level. I think in housing, it's

Unknown: 00:07:53

the fact that you really It sounds a bit tweeners, but it is

Unknown: 00:07:56

genuinely what sort of excites me about it, your best life

Unknown: 00:08:00

memories happen in your home. So we don't build out as we don't

Unknown: 00:08:03

build units, which is part of some of the terminology of some

Unknown: 00:08:06

of our colleagues up. But we deliver homes, the difference

Unknown: 00:08:10

that you say that you make, I mean, we've got quite an

Unknown: 00:08:13

ambitious growth program at the moment. So we're building 8000

Unknown: 00:08:16

new homes. And when I go to some of those schemes and and hear

Unknown: 00:08:20

the stories of people living in those zones, and the difference

Unknown: 00:08:22

that's made, and you think, Wow, that's amazing. And that's, you

Unknown: 00:08:26

know, on a board report, it's X million investment to deliver X

Unknown: 00:08:29

number of homes, it's meaningless. It's when you sit

Unknown: 00:08:32

and complain. And they've got the kids around them. And they

Unknown: 00:08:35

said, You know what, we're in a private rented flat, it was one

Unknown: 00:08:38

bedroom and three kids sleeping the same. And now I'm here and

Unknown: 00:08:42

it's fantastic. And you just think, yeah, that's all. And so

Unknown: 00:08:45

that is what drives it rarely, but that ability to feel that

Unknown: 00:08:48

you're still making a real difference. And I think I'm

Unknown: 00:08:50

really lucky, because there are so many people in so many jobs,

Unknown: 00:08:54

probably outside house, and they probably question if what they

Unknown: 00:08:57

do makes a difference. You know, like, I think that at the end of

Unknown: 00:09:00

my career, I can look back and go, You know what, I've left a

Unknown: 00:09:04

bit of a legacy. I mean, all of us just like basically a key

Unknown: 00:09:07

holders, aren't we in any role. And the job is to, I suppose,

Unknown: 00:09:11

make that organization leave it back to them when you found it,

Unknown: 00:09:15

and then it's on to somebody else to do the same again.

Unknown: 00:09:18

That's what keeps me from being completely honest with you. That

Unknown: 00:09:21

sort of feeling of real sites. That's a no two days are ever

Unknown: 00:09:24

the same. Categorically Golden

Lee Griffith: 00:09:28

Hour. Do you see your role then when it comes to

Lee Griffith: 00:09:31

residence specifically? i

Unknown: 00:09:33

For me, it goes back to the point we chatted about that

Unknown: 00:09:36

culture. So for me, it's for many of our customers. I'm not

Unknown: 00:09:40

the face of York touting the joiners, the performers, the

Unknown: 00:09:44

people who are going in to speak to and support them. When

Unknown: 00:09:47

they've got financial difficulties. The people are

Unknown: 00:09:50

supporting them to move. They are the face of Yorkshire how's

Unknown: 00:09:53

it so for me it goes back to the point about I'm the custodian of

Unknown: 00:09:56

the culture. So, you know, it's for me to walk the talk orchids,

Unknown: 00:10:00

for me to spend time with some of those frontline teams working

Unknown: 00:10:03

with our customers to understand some of the issues that they

Unknown: 00:10:07

face day in day out. It's the small things, isn't it that

Unknown: 00:10:10

frustrated us all in our day to day work. So very often, I can

Unknown: 00:10:13

just make some very small changes that make a big

Unknown: 00:10:15

difference to the ability of those frontline teams to then

Unknown: 00:10:18

deliver an even better service for our customers. So I think

Unknown: 00:10:22

it's about recognizing also that we need to have the right

Unknown: 00:10:24

mindset. And we've had a big shift at your house and from

Unknown: 00:10:29

recruiting for skills to recruiting for attitude and

Unknown: 00:10:32

behaviors. My sort of premise on this is you can train most

Unknown: 00:10:36

people to do most things, but you can't change what goes on in

Unknown: 00:10:39

their head and what, what drives them in, in their heart. Suppose

Unknown: 00:10:43

whether when they sort of true emotion comes from, for me, our

Unknown: 00:10:47

values, may there's the probably the most important thing. And we

Unknown: 00:10:51

talked about things like you know, doing the right thing, not

Unknown: 00:10:53

the easy thing, and having fun at work. And for me, it's it's

Unknown: 00:10:57

me delivering through all those going back to the football

Unknown: 00:11:00

manager analogy, as I mentioned before,

Lee Griffith: 00:11:03

so how are you testing those values and

Lee Griffith: 00:11:05

behaviors because it can be really easy for people to parrot

Lee Griffith: 00:11:09

them back to you? How do you know really, that they're being

Lee Griffith: 00:11:12

honored? For me,

Unknown: 00:11:13

it's about you spending time in the business, I pride

Unknown: 00:11:16

myself on being a very visible leader. So I get out and about a

Unknown: 00:11:18

lot for being honest with you. If you spend time with people

Unknown: 00:11:21

after about half an hour, they generally tend to drop their

Unknown: 00:11:25

guard, and you see what really goes on and you get to fund some

Unknown: 00:11:28

fantastic stuff. He has a really, really top notch stuff,

Unknown: 00:11:32

you know how I didn't realize we're doing that, oh, wow, he

Unknown: 00:11:34

runs within that so well. But you also get to see something

Unknown: 00:11:37

very, I thought we'd saw at that or thought would fix that or

Unknown: 00:11:42

actually didn't realize that was going on. And it enabled us to

Unknown: 00:11:45

go away. And and I suppose make some subtle changes in the

Unknown: 00:11:48

background to tweak some of that out in person. We don't have as

Unknown: 00:11:53

you know, your listeners can't see today. But you know, my

Unknown: 00:11:56

normal sort of dress code is a T shirt and a pair of jeans. And

Unknown: 00:12:00

there's not that hierarchical sort of barriers that very often

Unknown: 00:12:04

have in the workplace of suits. And people in Flint is a leader

Unknown: 00:12:07

and I've got chief exec on a badge on them and whatever, we

Unknown: 00:12:11

don't have any of that nonsense, because actually, for me, your

Unknown: 00:12:13

position in the business is built on what you deliver, and

Unknown: 00:12:17

whether people actually buy into what you're doing and believe in

Unknown: 00:12:20

you. And then you're authentic. It's not just because you've

Unknown: 00:12:23

managed to blank your way through a day long recruitment

Unknown: 00:12:25

process and get to fix that company. But recruitment

Lee Griffith: 00:12:29

processes, then I suppose is the next place that

Lee Griffith: 00:12:31

My head went when we're talking about having the right people

Lee Griffith: 00:12:34

around you and I suppose, yes, when they're in the

Lee Griffith: 00:12:37

organization, you can test for values behaviors, but how are

Lee Griffith: 00:12:39

you? How are you rooting out the good from the bad as it were,

Lee Griffith: 00:12:43

when you're in the recruitment process, because that's probably

Lee Griffith: 00:12:46

harder. I have

Unknown: 00:12:47

some quite radical views on recruitment, which

Unknown: 00:12:50

probably won't always land well with some of the listeners. But

Unknown: 00:12:53

my view of it is that, basically, operational managers

Unknown: 00:12:56

aren't necessarily great recruiters, they're

Unknown: 00:12:58

predominantly focused on skills, they're looking for beer, and I

Unknown: 00:13:01

understand that people can do X or Y on sack really well. So for

Unknown: 00:13:05

me, I think you need to have your people saying, who have the

Unknown: 00:13:10

oversight of the recruitment process from start to finish.

Unknown: 00:13:13

And they get the cultural side of it, they can pretty quickly

Unknown: 00:13:17

spot how people are. And very often, it's the sort of things

Unknown: 00:13:21

you know, so I, for example, I interview some people, often in

Unknown: 00:13:24

coffee shops, and wherever else so I'm my direct people and

Unknown: 00:13:28

culture, setting caffeine arrow, but I was watching her and how

Unknown: 00:13:31

she interacted with somebody when they brought a cup of

Unknown: 00:13:34

coffee, thank you wish to make eye contact, all those sorts of

Unknown: 00:13:38

very subtle indicators. And I think the other thing lay which

Unknown: 00:13:42

probably probably comes with as you get a bit older and a bit

Unknown: 00:13:45

more experienced is sometimes you get a gut feel about

Unknown: 00:13:50

sometimes positive life. So sometimes people can be really

Unknown: 00:13:52

nervous and they don't come across particular robots,

Unknown: 00:13:55

something about them, you think something, there's something

Unknown: 00:13:58

worth exploring further. But also, sometimes people can

Unknown: 00:14:02

really have the gift of the gab, they can tell you and they can

Unknown: 00:14:05

rattle off all those barriers, it can rattle off his Shoojit

Unknown: 00:14:08

plan, where you're looking at him and you think there's

Unknown: 00:14:10

something about you that isn't right. There's something about

Unknown: 00:14:14

you that won't fit or doesn't quite fit. And I think for me,

Unknown: 00:14:19

if you get that itch, you need to scratch it, you need to go

Unknown: 00:14:22

further, you need to have another stage of the process.

Unknown: 00:14:25

You need to find another way of trying to find out why you're

Unknown: 00:14:29

feeling that way. And I think sometimes that gut feel is is

Unknown: 00:14:32

underrated. I know there are lots of risks that are in terms

Unknown: 00:14:35

of particularly in terms of ensuring that we have a diverse

Unknown: 00:14:38

and inclusive workforce. I absolutely accept that. But I

Unknown: 00:14:41

think that's why it goes back to having your people and culture

Unknown: 00:14:44

team as the custodians of that recruitment process. And we also

Unknown: 00:14:48

have specialist recruiters in that team as well. So they final

Unknown: 00:14:52

say on who we recruit and who we appoint. And also finally, I'd

Unknown: 00:14:56

say recruitment is that are not science and it's about

Unknown: 00:14:58

recognizing sometimes you get it wrong Oh, yeah. And I suppose

Unknown: 00:15:02

it's recognizing that early and dealing with it early on, I know

Unknown: 00:15:05

that sounds, pretty hard line. But if people aren't happy,

Unknown: 00:15:09

they're not going to be delivering a great service and a

Unknown: 00:15:11

great job. And likewise, as a business, you know, we're not

Unknown: 00:15:14

getting value for money out of them. So you need to have those

Unknown: 00:15:15

conversations really honest conversation, really looking

Lee Griffith: 00:15:19

specifically at your C suite, your exec team,

Lee Griffith: 00:15:21

whatever it is that you call it in your organization. What are

Lee Griffith: 00:15:25

you looking for when you're building that team?

Unknown: 00:15:29

I suppose diversity of thought was a real temptation to

Unknown: 00:15:33

recruit in your own form, haven't forbid, in my case, what

Unknown: 00:15:39

I really like are the exact same needs to be enablers. So first

Unknown: 00:15:42

of all, I'd say that so the last thing you need is a stereotype

Unknown: 00:15:46

isn't there's a lazy stereotype that for example, in FD their

Unknown: 00:15:49

responses, the answer's no. What was your question going to pay

Unknown: 00:15:52

time? And I think, you know, certainly Magnus, we've made

Unknown: 00:15:55

that directive for Finance and Governance couldn't be further

Unknown: 00:15:57

from the truth. He's a real enabler. But what he does do is

Unknown: 00:16:01

he he understands what it is we're trying to achieve as a

Unknown: 00:16:04

business, and then lays out the series of choices and the risks

Unknown: 00:16:07

that's inside each of those. And I think that's what a good exec

Unknown: 00:16:11

team do the site diversity of thought, I know that I certainly

Unknown: 00:16:15

haven't got all the answers, you know, I rely on lots and lots of

Unknown: 00:16:19

really good contributions from our cross section for the good

Unknown: 00:16:21

people, and then putting pulling all that together in terms of a

Unknown: 00:16:25

really clear way forward. But to do that, you've got to have a

Unknown: 00:16:29

culture where people feel that they can contribute quite openly

Unknown: 00:16:33

and honestly. So yeah, I would like to think that if you sat in

Unknown: 00:16:36

one of our executive meetings, you would not know the chief

Unknown: 00:16:39

executives.

Lee Griffith: 00:16:41

That's nice test, isn't it a challenge for me.

Lee Griffith: 00:16:45

More broadly, then we're looking at how one of the things I'm

Lee Griffith: 00:16:48

interested in is how CEOs build and develop the right

Lee Griffith: 00:16:53

infrastructure around them. And I don't necessarily just mean

Lee Griffith: 00:16:56

the people, it can be ways of working, and all of that stuff

Lee Griffith: 00:16:59

as well. So what's been your approach,

Unknown: 00:17:03

my sort of starting point of all of this is that

Unknown: 00:17:05

most employers treat their employees like children, and

Unknown: 00:17:10

then get rid of grumpy when they outline children. So what I mean

Unknown: 00:17:13

by that is that most employers tell people when they should

Unknown: 00:17:16

have the lunch, tell people in the style where some people stop

Unknown: 00:17:19

work, tell people where they work, and how they work. And it

Unknown: 00:17:24

just amazes me, because I just sort of peel all its back and

Unknown: 00:17:27

just go, my first question is, are you over? 18? Yes, you're a

Unknown: 00:17:30

grown up paddle. Are you clear on what your objectives are? In

Unknown: 00:17:32

this role? Yes. Okay. In which case, these are clear objectives

Unknown: 00:17:36

that we agree you're going to deliver how when where you

Unknown: 00:17:39

deliver them, I'm not really bothered, I don't really give

Unknown: 00:17:42

tubes as long as you deliver, find my mate. And that is

Unknown: 00:17:46

because people work at their optimum at different times. So

Unknown: 00:17:51

I'm a morning person, I start at 5am. Our choice, I do my best

Unknown: 00:17:54

work really early on, I recognize that stuff. I've got

Unknown: 00:17:57

some complicated board reports to write or if I need to do some

Unknown: 00:18:00

thinking around an opportunity or an issue, we've got out

Unknown: 00:18:03

whiteboard that out and mind mapping early doors. But there

Unknown: 00:18:06

are some of my colleagues who literally don't start

Unknown: 00:18:09

functioning till about five o'clock in the afternoon. For

Unknown: 00:18:12

me, it's around, why do I then invite them to an ATM meeting?

Unknown: 00:18:15

I'm going to get the best out of them. No, just it's going to be

Unknown: 00:18:18

you know, absolutely useless. It's that whole thing about

Unknown: 00:18:22

treating people like grown up adults, so we all of our

Unknown: 00:18:24

colleagues are home based. We don't tell them when they need

Unknown: 00:18:28

to come into our workspace, a workspace is designed around

Unknown: 00:18:31

collaboration anyway. So it's not where you just come to bang

Unknown: 00:18:34

a keyboard for seven hours a day because somebody doesn't trust

Unknown: 00:18:38

that you're actually working. And actually, for me, that is a

Unknown: 00:18:42

big element of retention. I think if you start to talk to,

Unknown: 00:18:45

as I do spend time with with recruiters, they will tell you

Unknown: 00:18:49

that for an increasing proportion of the workforce now

Unknown: 00:18:52

flexibility, job flexibility is as important as salary. I still

Unknown: 00:18:57

wonder why organizations insist. And indeed, in some cases,

Unknown: 00:19:01

specify the days that people should go into an office. It's

Unknown: 00:19:05

just crazy, until they tell them the hours that they need to eat

Unknown: 00:19:09

that lunch at a weekend when they're not in works. Otherwise,

Unknown: 00:19:11

presumably they wouldn't eat, would they? Wait the weekend.

Unknown: 00:19:16

And I think certainly post pandemic and certainly with the

Unknown: 00:19:20

generation that's coming into the workforce now as well, it

Unknown: 00:19:23

will fantastic, really dynamic, but really clear that they want

Unknown: 00:19:27

that flexibility, but also they want to believe in the

Unknown: 00:19:30

organization. So as a housing association, we provide

Unknown: 00:19:34

affordable, high quality homes for people on lower incomes.

Unknown: 00:19:37

We're doing some real social goods so that we've got a good

Unknown: 00:19:40

story to sell to people who are wanting to work for an ethical

Unknown: 00:19:43

employer. I think for all of those reasons, as well as most

Unknown: 00:19:48

importantly, I get the best out of people and I not only get to

Unknown: 00:19:51

recruit the very best people, but probably more importantly I

Unknown: 00:19:55

get to retain very good people.

Lee Griffith: 00:19:57

I was going to ask you a question around this Post

Lee Griffith: 00:20:00

pandemic intergenerational can multi generational workforce.

Lee Griffith: 00:20:04

And also the focus on equity and inclusion are all having such a

Lee Griffith: 00:20:09

big impact on the workforce. And so it sounds like you're pretty

Lee Griffith: 00:20:12

progressive in thinking through some of those things. How's your

Lee Griffith: 00:20:16

specific leadership style had to adapt to respond to that?

Unknown: 00:20:20

I think it's probably more multi channel, I'll do a

Unknown: 00:20:23

series of videos for colleagues, I do a live arsenic every month,

Unknown: 00:20:28

where a one of our colleagues can jump on a video call and ask

Unknown: 00:20:32

me absolutely anything they want. And I've had the most

Unknown: 00:20:34

diverse range of questions ever. I think the strangest one I've

Unknown: 00:20:38

had was my view on a case that we were dealing with where

Unknown: 00:20:41

Sorry, I shouldn't laugh where we had reports of a ghost in a

Unknown: 00:20:44

property, and what my thoughts were on the supernatural

Unknown: 00:20:47

spiritual world, and it was like, I wasn't expecting now. I

Unknown: 00:20:52

think my style has to be much more open even more

Unknown: 00:20:56

approachable, and even I pride myself on being and I suppose

Unknown: 00:21:00

just going back to that whole point about being authentic,

Unknown: 00:21:03

spent that honest Februaryat tell people the truth, don't

Unknown: 00:21:06

dress it up from the don't mean a dress, you know? Just say to

Unknown: 00:21:09

them, No, this is the position, this is where we're at. This is

Unknown: 00:21:12

what we're gonna do about it. And this is what I need. This is

Unknown: 00:21:15

why I need your help to sort of get us to that place. Most

Unknown: 00:21:18

rational, reasonable people will go you know what, yeah, for that

Unknown: 00:21:21

as fine. Things like, for example, when we deal with pay,

Unknown: 00:21:25

I'm just really clear with people, I'm sort of saying,

Unknown: 00:21:27

Well, this is what we can afford. There's a cost of living

Unknown: 00:21:29

crisis, I am targeting more money towards those people on

Unknown: 00:21:33

the lower end pay scales, because I believe that's the

Unknown: 00:21:36

right thing to do at this time. I appreciate that. For some

Unknown: 00:21:39

people, that means you're not going to get the pay increase

Unknown: 00:21:42

that probably you were hoping for. But I hope you feel that

Unknown: 00:21:44

the process is fair and equitable in terms of helping

Unknown: 00:21:48

those people who really need at the moment. So it's things like

Unknown: 00:21:51

that I've I've just been really open and direct and with people,

Unknown: 00:21:54

it helps me in from Yorkshire because Yorkshire folk are

Unknown: 00:21:56

straight talking. Yeah, we really are. Our recruitment

Unknown: 00:21:59

process does fail. Occasionally, we do get the Lancaster new

Unknown: 00:22:02

managers to sneak in for organization, we soon managed to

Unknown: 00:22:05

re educate them into the ways of being more Yorkshire.

Lee Griffith: 00:22:09

Well, I've got Yorkshire in my heart, I went to

Lee Griffith: 00:22:10

university in Leeds. So

Unknown: 00:22:14

we're definitely welcome you for a cup of tea.

Unknown: 00:22:16

And

Lee Griffith: 00:22:18

I want to go back a little bit on that point

Lee Griffith: 00:22:21

around, you know, you, you recognize that you work best in

Lee Griffith: 00:22:24

the morning, you don't want to treat other people like

Lee Griffith: 00:22:26

children, and you want to get the best out of them. But I

Lee Griffith: 00:22:29

suppose at the end of the day, you've also got a business to

Lee Griffith: 00:22:31

run, and to run effectively and efficiently. And I know some of

Lee Griffith: 00:22:37

the challenges that I hear from other leaders is that sense of

Lee Griffith: 00:22:41

well, we need to get so much stuff done. And if I don't put

Lee Griffith: 00:22:44

some rules and red lines down, we won't. So how do you balance

Lee Griffith: 00:22:48

that with? I'm assuming you're not giving everyone a free rein?

Lee Griffith: 00:22:51

I've? No,

Unknown: 00:22:53

absolutely. So my take on all of this is just been

Unknown: 00:22:56

really clear on a few. And I mean, a few clear objectives

Unknown: 00:23:01

that people need to deliver. These is where I always seek to

Unknown: 00:23:04

do and this is just because the world is changing, because

Unknown: 00:23:06

everything's changing around us so rapidly. And monks have

Unknown: 00:23:09

annual targets. And it's just nonsense. I work on quarters. So

Unknown: 00:23:13

for example, the conversation I've been having with my team,

Unknown: 00:23:16

what are your key achievable goals between now and Christmas?

Unknown: 00:23:20

Nice, natural break really for most organizations? And what do

Unknown: 00:23:24

you need from me or the business to help me deliver those, and

Unknown: 00:23:27

that's what I focus on. And if people deliver those, then that,

Unknown: 00:23:31

for me is surely the most important thing. I think it goes

Unknown: 00:23:35

back to that whole paternalistic approach that organizations

Unknown: 00:23:39

still have about the fact that I need to see people in the office

Unknown: 00:23:44

to know that they're working, or we need people in because

Unknown: 00:23:47

otherwise younger members of the team won't learn from, you know,

Unknown: 00:23:51

some of the younger members of the team sometimes shouldn't be

Unknown: 00:23:54

learning from some of the most senior members of the team, some

Unknown: 00:23:57

of the senior members of the team probably aren't doing

Unknown: 00:23:59

things the way that they shouldn't be doing. So I think

Unknown: 00:24:02

that quite lazy assumptions that people make to justify why

Unknown: 00:24:07

people should be in a workspace. I absolutely support the notion

Unknown: 00:24:11

of people coming together collaboration, most single

Unknown: 00:24:14

biggest driving force for change and innovation in a business.

Unknown: 00:24:19

But you don't engineer that. No, I didn't. I've not had my best

Unknown: 00:24:23

ideas, sat in a glass box working through an agenda at a

Unknown: 00:24:27

set time on a set day because somebody told me I needed to be

Unknown: 00:24:29

creative. That guy. And for me, it's it goes always goes back to

Unknown: 00:24:34

how do I get the best out of 800 colleagues? Um, for some of

Unknown: 00:24:37

those colleagues, yeah, there is there is more structure. So for

Unknown: 00:24:39

example, if you're doing repairs in customers hands on repairs,

Unknown: 00:24:42

our customers generally want those repairs doing between

Unknown: 00:24:45

eight and seven in the day. So yeah, of course we need them

Unknown: 00:24:48

work in between that time, but again, we can offer that

Unknown: 00:24:51

flexibility and also just on some other roles. So we have

Unknown: 00:24:54

quite a lot of green areas and other places where we have our

Unknown: 00:24:57

homes, and we have an environmental services team.

Unknown: 00:24:59

We've maintained those areas to fab standard. Previously, we

Unknown: 00:25:03

worked on bases of peaks and troughs. So as we know, grass

Unknown: 00:25:06

grows much quicker in the summer than than anymore. So we had to

Unknown: 00:25:09

have more people to do that work. And we used to have

Unknown: 00:25:11

seasonal workers means to lay people off. And it was one of

Unknown: 00:25:14

those, well, why are they on annualized hours, because

Unknown: 00:25:16

actually, we don't need them to be doing 35 hours a week at the

Unknown: 00:25:19

highest, we need them to be in 45 hours pause to maintain those

Unknown: 00:25:23

areas, but actually, then free them all during the month when

Unknown: 00:25:26

we don't need them to instead of laying them off, actually, we

Unknown: 00:25:29

can keep them on the books, really talented people. But

Unknown: 00:25:32

actually, we don't need them to be doing as much. And every job.

Unknown: 00:25:35

I guarantee you every job has peaks and troughs. So why do we

Unknown: 00:25:39

have a 35 or 37 hour week, so once once, and that was brought

Unknown: 00:25:44

in interestingly, by Henry Ford, the nine to five was introduced

Unknown: 00:25:48

by Henry Ford in 1926. To produce the Ford Model to more

Unknown: 00:25:52

cost effectively. Warehousing Association, we don't produce

Unknown: 00:25:56

for models. So we don't need, you're working nine to five,

Unknown: 00:25:59

Monday to Friday, this quarterly

Lee Griffith: 00:26:01

focus. So the biggest difference I found when

Lee Griffith: 00:26:05

I left the health service and started my own business was the

Lee Griffith: 00:26:08

fact that I could be completely flexible. So I also work in that

Lee Griffith: 00:26:12

quarterly focus short bursts. And it's made me reflect this

Lee Griffith: 00:26:16

idea of we used to moan in the health service about being

Lee Griffith: 00:26:19

massive, like a cruise ship, you know, you wanted to make any

Lee Griffith: 00:26:22

change, you would move in so slowly, but actually, you have a

Lee Griffith: 00:26:25

shorter focus, you can be more of a speedboat, and agile and

Lee Griffith: 00:26:28

responsive to stuff that's going on. Have you had to do work with

Lee Griffith: 00:26:32

your board, for example, to get them on board with that more

Lee Griffith: 00:26:37

short term thinking rather than the security blanket thinking

Lee Griffith: 00:26:40

and we've got to have a year's plan, five year plan, whatever

Lee Griffith: 00:26:44

it might be. Yeah,

Unknown: 00:26:45

I, I suppose I'm really fortunate. So I've got an

Unknown: 00:26:49

exceptional board. But that's not by chance, you do have to go

Unknown: 00:26:53

out and be really clear what it is you want. So our board are

Unknown: 00:26:57

great. And I think there's there's a couple of key

Unknown: 00:26:59

ingredients for a really good board. I think, first of all,

Unknown: 00:27:01

you have to invest time. And again, they're individuals

Unknown: 00:27:05

getting to know the individuals, what makes it tick, what their

Unknown: 00:27:08

level of understanding is that you can disposable, how you

Unknown: 00:27:11

deliver information to them so that they can help make the

Unknown: 00:27:14

right decisions. I think secondly, you need to develop a

Unknown: 00:27:18

shared vision, and be really clear on the direction of travel

Unknown: 00:27:21

with them. Using your cruise ship analogy. It's a bit like

Unknown: 00:27:25

they have the overall destination, they help set the

Unknown: 00:27:28

overall destination with the exec team for the exec team are

Unknown: 00:27:32

basically navigate in a yacht, and it's a yacht, it has to tack

Unknown: 00:27:37

with the wind. So sometimes it doesn't appear you'd go in

Unknown: 00:27:39

towards the direction of overall travel. But actually, you're

Unknown: 00:27:43

working within a set sort of boundary, if that makes sense.

Unknown: 00:27:47

Thirdly, I think there needs to be a really strong relationship

Unknown: 00:27:51

between chief executive chair. And again, I'm really fortunate

Unknown: 00:27:55

to have a chair she's exceptional. She's a hard

Unknown: 00:27:58

taskmaster, but she asks interest in going back to one of

Unknown: 00:28:01

our earlier points. All she does is ask really good questions

Unknown: 00:28:05

that make you think and make reflect and draw out the answers

Unknown: 00:28:08

sometimes that are already sort of buried away in inside your

Unknown: 00:28:10

head. And then finally, I think the other element of a good

Unknown: 00:28:14

board is that there has to be high levels of trust and

Unknown: 00:28:18

openness, they have to be a sounding board a confidential

Unknown: 00:28:21

sound, or do you need to be able to go to them and say, this has

Unknown: 00:28:24

happened? This is the reason it's happened. This is what

Unknown: 00:28:27

we're doing about just that sort of, from your vast experience as

Unknown: 00:28:32

10 individuals with fantastic careers. Does that seem to make

Unknown: 00:28:37

sense? Or is there anything else we're missing? And very often I

Unknown: 00:28:39

think the value of a board is the things they stop you from

Unknown: 00:28:43

doing that would have been the wrong thing.

Lee Griffith: 00:28:46

Moving on a little bit, you host your own podcast,

Lee Griffith: 00:28:50

you regularly write for trade magazines, you're very, very

Lee Griffith: 00:28:54

active on social media. That's when I was looking for people to

Lee Griffith: 00:28:56

interview. That's one of the reasons your name kind of came

Lee Griffith: 00:28:59

up to me from others. So it's clear that you see the

Lee Griffith: 00:29:03

importance of communications and you understand it's part of your

Lee Griffith: 00:29:06

role. You've already mentioned the fact that you've had to

Lee Griffith: 00:29:09

develop more of a multi channel approach to respond to change

Lee Griffith: 00:29:12

your workforce. Has that always been like that for you? Is

Lee Griffith: 00:29:16

communications been essential to your leadership

Unknown: 00:29:20

approach? No. And I think it's, again, it's one of

Unknown: 00:29:24

the things I'll probably go back and change about my younger

Unknown: 00:29:26

self. I used to think that if you wrote a really good report,

Unknown: 00:29:30

or a really good press release, or a really good internal sort

Unknown: 00:29:33

of statement or email that had a good rational business case and

Unknown: 00:29:38

made sense that that would do the job and you don't Well, was

Unknown: 00:29:40

it not delivered when people listen when people read it?

Unknown: 00:29:43

Also, it's quite scary because you sort of worry about what I'm

Unknown: 00:29:47

saying. Am I saying the right thing? Will I know the answer?

Unknown: 00:29:51

Will I come across the right way? And in some cases, you just

Unknown: 00:29:54

gotta get over yourself. You know what we're gonna get

Unknown: 00:29:55

something's wrong. I do have a bit of a propensity because I

Unknown: 00:29:58

get super excited to swear a little But so, you know, I do

Unknown: 00:30:01

generally give a warning beforehand. And because, you

Unknown: 00:30:05

know, I love what I do. And so I suppose it came to me really in

Unknown: 00:30:09

terms of when I started to see how messages bland by others.

Unknown: 00:30:12

And again, it's about watching others around you who you admire

Unknown: 00:30:15

and gun. Right? Okay, that's really clever. They've done that

Unknown: 00:30:19

actually on. That's what I need to do. And, and I suppose it's

Unknown: 00:30:22

also about getting really good comps people around you so

Unknown: 00:30:24

interested in like the call I had before I joined you today

Unknown: 00:30:27

was with our head of comps and brands. So I catch up with her

Unknown: 00:30:31

on a three weekly basis. And we just talk about some of the key

Unknown: 00:30:35

things that the business is doing, and then making sure that

Unknown: 00:30:38

she's hooked into that and supporting the delivery of that.

Unknown: 00:30:41

And we've expanded her team, our team is quite lonely. We've got

Unknown: 00:30:44

nine or 10 people in our comms and brand team because it is

Unknown: 00:30:48

significantly important. And so I suppose it's right that are

Unknown: 00:30:52

for me now. Awesome. I used to think that, as I say, if I wrote

Unknown: 00:30:56

something that was very cleverly worded, and made absolute sense

Unknown: 00:31:00

that people would read it. And that would do the job. couldn't

Unknown: 00:31:03

be further from the truth. I think particularly given where

Unknown: 00:31:06

the world's at now. And interestingly, he was saying

Unknown: 00:31:08

about why you've kindly invited me onto your podcast, it's about

Unknown: 00:31:12

your your online presence and your online. And let's see as

Unknown: 00:31:14

well, and people take a lot from that probably believe that more

Unknown: 00:31:18

than, than what they hear and, and read in the news, which, in

Unknown: 00:31:22

some cases, may may be a good thing and other cases may not be

Unknown: 00:31:24

a good thing. But I think for me, it's right at the heart. So

Unknown: 00:31:28

that's why I have a direct relationship with my head of

Unknown: 00:31:31

comms and brand and her team. They are integral to helping me

Unknown: 00:31:34

get some of those messages delivered. And how have you,

Lee Griffith: 00:31:38

I suppose developed your voice because I

Lee Griffith: 00:31:40

think that's something that people can be really nervous

Lee Griffith: 00:31:43

about.

Unknown: 00:31:45

I try not to listen. Everybody hates that everyone

Unknown: 00:31:50

hates how they look and hates the sound of their own voice.

Unknown: 00:31:53

And yeah, I used to be gonna help them not come across. Maybe

Unknown: 00:31:56

Maybe you tell me I try not to monitor I just tried to solve, I

Unknown: 00:32:00

suppose talking with a bit of a smile on your face that helps

Unknown: 00:32:02

you know, I'm also proud of my heritage. I'm proud of my

Unknown: 00:32:06

background, I'm Yorkshire and I just use the words that I think

Unknown: 00:32:10

arrive. I don't try and be smart and over complicate things. For

Unknown: 00:32:14

me, it's just about probably in women will be more comfortable

Unknown: 00:32:17

in your own skin and not as hard. I genuinely can't believe

Unknown: 00:32:21

on black my way into this role. Like when I get invited some

Unknown: 00:32:24

people like yourself to come on a podcast site, maybe some

Unknown: 00:32:26

branches, why didn't want me it was people. It's that whole

Unknown: 00:32:31

thing of just thinking, Okay, right. Put that to one side and

Unknown: 00:32:34

just share your journey to try and help somebody who maybe is

Unknown: 00:32:38

starting to grapple with some of this on their own career

Unknown: 00:32:40

journey. Because I've been really, really, really keen,

Unknown: 00:32:44

I've been really blessed to work alongside three people who

Unknown: 00:32:47

really helped shape me as a person as in my career. And also

Unknown: 00:32:51

I've had several people who've put their faith in me to give me

Unknown: 00:32:55

opportunities very often at times when I wasn't quite ready

Unknown: 00:32:59

for them. They've helped me and made sure that I succeeded in

Unknown: 00:33:03

the majority of cases with those where I didn't succeed that they

Unknown: 00:33:07

encouraged me to take the learning, I think, yeah,

Unknown: 00:33:10

probably often take backs, learn it from when things perhaps

Unknown: 00:33:12

don't go as well as you'd hoped. So

Lee Griffith: 00:33:14

I noticed in your bio, that you've been regularly

Lee Griffith: 00:33:17

listed as one of the most influential people in the

Lee Griffith: 00:33:21

housing sector, and I'm assuming your proactive, consistent open

Lee Griffith: 00:33:26

comms style is probably one of the reasons is influence

Lee Griffith: 00:33:31

something that you've consistently worked on or

Lee Griffith: 00:33:34

consciously worked on, I

Unknown: 00:33:37

suppose more so over the last sort of eight to 10

Unknown: 00:33:40

years. So I think as I increasingly got to a position

Unknown: 00:33:44

where we used to sort of respond to lots of consultations on X or

Unknown: 00:33:48

Y and, and actually, I soon realized that actually many of

Unknown: 00:33:52

those consultations are done beyond that just looking for

Unknown: 00:33:55

verification of what has already been decided. So for me, it was

Unknown: 00:33:58

about how do you then help shape those decisions and those

Unknown: 00:34:02

policies before they come out as a consultation. And that I think

Unknown: 00:34:06

is now why I put my role to help influence and shape things at

Unknown: 00:34:11

the forefront of what I'm trying to achieve. So across Yorkshire,

Unknown: 00:34:15

we've got some country has a three devolved regions. And we

Unknown: 00:34:19

are active in all three of those, because we've got two

Unknown: 00:34:23

mayors at the moment another mayor is going to be elected

Unknown: 00:34:25

into your Konatsu Yorkshire next May. So it enables us to have

Unknown: 00:34:30

those conversations to help some of those key decision makers act

Unknown: 00:34:34

as a sounding board and to help shape policies rather than

Unknown: 00:34:39

waiting for them to be developed. And then trying to

Unknown: 00:34:42

change them when it's probably a bit too late in the day is

Lee Griffith: 00:34:46

talked quite a lot in our conversation today. I've

Lee Griffith: 00:34:49

got the sense of I suppose the energy you have around

Lee Griffith: 00:34:52

transforming making change happen for the better. What's

Lee Griffith: 00:34:56

the secret of handling that well?

Unknown: 00:35:00

I think that we all tend to get sucked into looking

Unknown: 00:35:05

at things in through the lens of the world that we're working at.

Unknown: 00:35:09

So what I mean by that is that my approach to transformation is

Unknown: 00:35:12

to not look at things as in terms of what's happening in the

Unknown: 00:35:16

housing sector. So I tried to take my learning or my

Unknown: 00:35:19

inspiration from looking out. So I sort of think about, for

Unknown: 00:35:22

example, what happens in my personal life, how do I interact

Unknown: 00:35:25

with service providers? What do I like? What do I dislike? What

Unknown: 00:35:29

do I expect? And then I play that back and think, Well,

Unknown: 00:35:32

actually, why are we doing that? Why isn't there an online

Unknown: 00:35:35

offering? Why don't we offerings, operating 20 471,

Unknown: 00:35:37

we've got live chat, all those sorts of things. And then it

Unknown: 00:35:40

goes further than that, it goes further, which is that our big

Unknown: 00:35:44

thing that your cows in is to transform the whole premise of

Unknown: 00:35:47

the housing service offer. So at the moment, the whole service

Unknown: 00:35:50

offering housing is reactive, we wait for things to happen, we

Unknown: 00:35:53

then wait for our customers to tell us that those things have

Unknown: 00:35:56

happened not just repairs, things like people struggling to

Unknown: 00:35:58

pay the rent, people want to move home or answer behavior or

Unknown: 00:36:02

a whole raft of things that we deal with. But then we respond

Unknown: 00:36:05

to them telling us that in a really unplanned, uncoordinated

Unknown: 00:36:08

way, it's really expensive for us as a business. But more

Unknown: 00:36:12

importantly, for the customer. It's really inconvenient. And we

Unknown: 00:36:15

have them off, in many cases, because they're coming to us at

Unknown: 00:36:18

point of service failure. For me, we're looking to transform

Unknown: 00:36:22

that to our big business strategy priorities, moving the

Unknown: 00:36:24

service from being reactive to being pre emptive. And to do

Unknown: 00:36:28

that, I'll be very quick, but three key ingredients. The first

Unknown: 00:36:31

is that to transform our home, so at the moment, the average

Unknown: 00:36:35

car, I think, has about 3000 sensors in it at the moment, the

Unknown: 00:36:38

average home has 10, it's an hour actually making our turn in

Unknown: 00:36:43

our dorm homes into smart homes. So the second thing and all of

Unknown: 00:36:46

that tech is is available, it's cheapest chips, and it's there

Unknown: 00:36:49

ready to go. The second thing is we've got dates to die for. But

Unknown: 00:36:53

we generally don't do a lot with it. So it's about using data

Unknown: 00:36:56

analytics and predictive modeling. And the third element

Unknown: 00:36:59

is interestingly around customer sentiment, real time customer

Unknown: 00:37:03

sentiment analysis, not satisfaction surveys, but

Unknown: 00:37:06

scraping in real time what's happening on social media, what

Unknown: 00:37:09

our customers are talking about, so that we can pick up issues in

Unknown: 00:37:12

lifetime and deal with those as well as plugging in our source

Unknown: 00:37:15

data from other agencies as well, like local authorities,

Unknown: 00:37:18

plates, etc. That's the premise that our customers moving

Unknown: 00:37:22

forward will not need to contact us, we will deal with things

Unknown: 00:37:26

before they've actually happened. So we will contact

Unknown: 00:37:29

them to arrange to come and do something or speak to them about

Unknown: 00:37:31

something, and it hasn't actually yet broken, or that

Unknown: 00:37:35

event actually hasn't yet fully happened. So it's about doing

Unknown: 00:37:38

stuff more strain. And all of that is taking learning from a

Unknown: 00:37:42

whole range of different sectors, you know, you look at,

Unknown: 00:37:44

for example, how retail has been transformed. You look at how

Unknown: 00:37:47

banking has been transformed. You look at how you buy a car,

Unknown: 00:37:51

and all those sorts of things. And it's then say, taking your

Unknown: 00:37:55

own life experience and applying it in the world of work that

Unknown: 00:37:59

you're doing. If

Lee Griffith: 00:38:00

chicken exposes a side thought, which is social

Lee Griffith: 00:38:04

housing, in particular, there are lots of other factors at

Lee Griffith: 00:38:07

play, not just the infrastructure of a home. So the

Lee Griffith: 00:38:10

impact of cost of living, for example, on residents, how much

Lee Griffith: 00:38:16

is that type of thing influencing your strategy? And

Lee Griffith: 00:38:18

how suppose proactive or active can you be in those things that

Lee Griffith: 00:38:23

might be possibly seen as outside of your control.

Unknown: 00:38:26

They are outside our control. But we can do a lot to

Unknown: 00:38:29

support our customers to basically to find their way

Unknown: 00:38:33

through some of those challenges. So some of the big

Unknown: 00:38:35

key things that our teams are dealing with. So we put more

Unknown: 00:38:38

results, first of all, in terms of tenancy support, and also our

Unknown: 00:38:41

money coaching service, and the people that are dealing with

Unknown: 00:38:44

this. Fantastic. There are two main issues versus around a cost

Unknown: 00:38:48

of living crisis disproportionately affects

Unknown: 00:38:50

people that live in our homes. We're providing lots of support,

Unknown: 00:38:54

as I say, through Yes, advice and support services. But also

Unknown: 00:38:57

in some cases, we are looking at ways that we can reduce

Unknown: 00:39:00

residence fuel bills. So in the rural areas that we're working,

Unknown: 00:39:03

we're looking to remove, for example, oil fired heating

Unknown: 00:39:06

systems, replacing with air source heat pumps, it also works

Unknown: 00:39:09

well for our overall drive to be a low carbon business. If you

Unknown: 00:39:13

take a tenancy with us, and you've got an oil fired heating

Unknown: 00:39:15

system, because it's off grid in a rural area, your first bill is

Unknown: 00:39:19

800 pounds to fill the oil tank in your garden. And they don't

Unknown: 00:39:22

come and just put five gallons and it's either all or nothing.

Unknown: 00:39:26

And so we've got scheme that enables people to be able to

Unknown: 00:39:29

meet that upfront cost and and deal with that. I think let's

Unknown: 00:39:32

face it. The second thing is we're dealing with as many

Unknown: 00:39:35

agencies or we're not on our own, but a real sharp increase

Unknown: 00:39:39

in the number of people who are struggling with what I would

Unknown: 00:39:42

classify as low level mental health challenges. And again,

Unknown: 00:39:45

we've got a team who really helped support that. And it's

Unknown: 00:39:48

not just our residents, either of those services also available

Unknown: 00:39:51

for our colleagues as well. Great,

Lee Griffith: 00:39:53

thank you. We're nearing the end of our time, but

Lee Griffith: 00:39:55

I do have a couple of short questions if you don't mind.

Lee Griffith: 00:39:58

When I first emailed you I've gotten out of office from you

Lee Griffith: 00:40:02

explaining that you only check your emails at certain points.

Lee Griffith: 00:40:05

And there is a list of all the other ways that I could get in

Lee Griffith: 00:40:07

touch. And that said to me that there is a clear message of a

Lee Griffith: 00:40:12

your accessibility, but you also managed my expectations. And I

Lee Griffith: 00:40:16

suppose it told me that you're really quite clear on some of

Lee Griffith: 00:40:19

the boundaries that you set in the way that you work. How else

Lee Griffith: 00:40:23

do you set a manage boundaries and expectations?

Unknown: 00:40:29

I think the key one is how you blend home and work. I

Unknown: 00:40:34

have a home deal. So counseling goes my long suffering wife,

Unknown: 00:40:38

every year, I sent her a wedding anniversary card. And it just

Unknown: 00:40:40

says thanks for putting up with me for another year. But I think

Unknown: 00:40:44

having that clear deal at home. So the deal at home is our work,

Unknown: 00:40:47

whatever's needed Monday to Friday, we're really clear about

Unknown: 00:40:49

when I'm around when I'm not when I'll be back and whatever.

Unknown: 00:40:52

And we work through that in a really structured way, it was

Unknown: 00:40:55

probably more important when we've got three children when

Unknown: 00:40:59

they were at home. Fortunately, they all left, although one of

Unknown: 00:41:01

them keeps coming back, which is a bit of a frustration. But I'm

Unknown: 00:41:04

sure at some point, they'll decide to leave permanently.

Unknown: 00:41:07

We've got my job, beautiful Labrador dog. So surely it's

Unknown: 00:41:10

enough to so we need to we need to manage that. But he's not

Unknown: 00:41:13

home deal is that clear boundaries around what you will

Unknown: 00:41:16

do. And also when you be present at home, I've got a big thing

Unknown: 00:41:19

about being present. So when I'm with my family, I put the

Unknown: 00:41:22

devices down, and I'm present with my family, it's their time.

Unknown: 00:41:27

The other thing that helps me really manage is exercise. I'm

Unknown: 00:41:30

not very good at it, but I am a keen runner. So I tried to do

Unknown: 00:41:34

six or seven half marathons a year, and I tried to run between

Unknown: 00:41:38

20 and 30 miles a week, that really, really helps. Because

Unknown: 00:41:42

very often, like many people have quite a sedentary role

Unknown: 00:41:45

otherwise, and it also I find really energized to make when

Unknown: 00:41:48

gets those sorts of all natural things that go on in your head

Unknown: 00:41:52

and in your body kickstarts hormones and really helps me for

Unknown: 00:41:55

the day. I've not really talked about where boundaries go, you

Unknown: 00:41:58

know, necessarily, they're as important as some of the things

Unknown: 00:42:00

that really matter which is your life after yourself and, and

Unknown: 00:42:05

having a sort of stable found a very supportive family

Unknown: 00:42:08

environment. Yeah,

Lee Griffith: 00:42:10

I can't say I admire that running because

Lee Griffith: 00:42:12

that's the lie in but I admire the commitment and motivation to

Lee Griffith: 00:42:17

run. I'll put it that way.

Unknown: 00:42:19

She saw me running you wouldn't admire.

Lee Griffith: 00:42:24

My final question is, what's the one piece of

Lee Griffith: 00:42:27

advice that you would give to other people in a senior

Lee Griffith: 00:42:32

leadership, maybe a budding CEO, future CEO role?

Unknown: 00:42:36

I'd say a couple of things. The only thing holding

Unknown: 00:42:39

you back is you don't listen to the self doubt and you had apply

Unknown: 00:42:43

the 2% rule. It's worked for me grasp the opportunities that

Unknown: 00:42:47

come your way, there are always opportunities. And what I mean

Unknown: 00:42:49

by that is understand what's keeping senior leaders awake at

Unknown: 00:42:53

night and make yourself part of the solution. Proactively offer

Unknown: 00:42:57

up support and opportunities to help solve that. And really, as

Unknown: 00:43:01

part of that, don't wait to be asked, get stuck in and make

Unknown: 00:43:04

yourself indispensable. It's very easy, I think, to make

Unknown: 00:43:08

yourself visible in organizations to senior leaders,

Unknown: 00:43:11

and to actually get clocked as potential leaders for the

Unknown: 00:43:14

future. And if all else fails, do what I did and just like it.

Lee Griffith: 00:43:20

Perfect. Well, thank you so much for your time.

Lee Griffith: 00:43:22

If people want to get in touch via the socials and, you know,

Lee Griffith: 00:43:27

share their thoughts and reflections on our discussion.

Lee Griffith: 00:43:29

What's the best way to

Unknown: 00:43:30

follow you on Twitter, so you want to call it at Nick

Unknown: 00:43:34

Atkin underscore Y H, my contact details are also on our website

Unknown: 00:43:38

which is Yorkshire housing.co.uk. Also on LinkedIn

Unknown: 00:43:41

so reach out whichever way you prefer emails my least

Unknown: 00:43:45

preferred, you probably will get a bit of a patchy response if

Unknown: 00:43:49

you email or make us emails scourge of my life,

Lee Griffith: 00:43:53

I thank you so much.

Unknown: 00:43:55

Thank you. Thanks very much.

Lee Griffith: 00:43:58

If you enjoyed this episode, please let me know

Lee Griffith: 00:44:00

on Apple podcasts or on app of choice and drop me a line over

Lee Griffith: 00:44:04

on LinkedIn. You can find me at Lee Griffith. I'll be back with

Lee Griffith: 00:44:07

the next episode in two weeks time for in the meantime,

Lee Griffith: 00:44:10

remember to sign up to my newsletter at Sundayskies.com

Lee Griffith: 00:44:12

for February insights on how to lead your impact. Until next

Lee Griffith: 00:44:15

time!