Peter Farrington takes us through the next stage of the gospel of John. We're looking at how to really trust Jesus all the time, not just when we feel like we need Him.

-- ORIGIN --

This topic is part of the Origin series where we look at the birth of the church and ask why this Man, Jesus, from 2000 years ago still has a major impact on the world today.

-- MORE INFO --

CROWD Church is a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps live a more meaningful life. We are a com­mu­ni­ty, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can con­tribute and grow.

More info: www.crowd.church

Matt Edmundson: Welcome to this week's Crowd Church service. We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps us live a more meaningful life. We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place where you can contribute and grow Our service, uh, will last about an hour and in a few seconds you'll meet our hosts, uh, for our service, who will introduce today's talk.

After the talk, we will have a time of worship and reflection, after which we head into Conversation Street, where we look at your stories and questions that you've posted in the comments. Now, we want to invite you to connect with us here at Crowd Church, and we've got a few ways in which you can do just that.

Firstly, you can engage with Crowd from any device during our livestream, and if you're up for it. Why not invite a few friends over and experience the service together? You see, church is all about connecting with God and connecting with others. And one of the easiest ways for you to do that is join one of our midweek groups where we meet online together to catch up and discover more about the amazingness of Christ.

You can also subscribe to our fairly new podcast called What's the Story, Uh, where we deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people. More information about all of these things can be found on our website, www.Crowd.Church, or you can reach out to is on social media at Crowd church.

If you are new to Crowd or new to the Christian faith and would like to know what your next steps to take are. Well, why not head over to our website, Crowd.Church/next for more details.

And now the moment you've been waiting for is here at Online Church Service starts right now.

Wow. Good evening and welcome to Crowd Church.

It's great that you are here. I'm here, uh, with the beautiful Anna Anna. How are we doing today?

Anna Kettle: We're good. Yeah. Had a lovely relaxing Sunday. How about you, Matt .

Matt Edmundson: I wish I had a lovely relaxing Sunday. Uh, it's been okay. It's been okay. It's been one of those where I, I've no idea where the day has gone. Let me tell you.

So, uh, yes. It's one of those days. Now welcome to Crowd Church. If this is your first time with us, a warm welcome to you. We are an online church, uh, for those who might not see the point of church. For those who are looking to understand how Jesus, well, basically gives us meaning in life, really. And, um, we hopefully do that in a non-threatening way.

Uh, I don't tend to threaten. Do you threaten people? Anna? I don't know.

Anna Kettle: I try not to. Occasionally my little boy, but not generally other adults.

How about you?

Matt Edmundson: No, no, no. Uh, no. . So yeah, welcome to church. It's great that you are here. And of course, if you're a regular one, welcome to you as well. Uh, I see Mr. Crew is in the comments.

Mm-hmm. , Uh, oh. We've got two, two in the, I've not actually seen the score for the Liverpool Arsenal games.

Anna Kettle: Oh, he's already started the football banter. So ,

Matt Edmundson: no doubt

Anna Kettle: I can see, aren't we, Matt? Yeah. .

Matt Edmundson: It's just one of those isn't, it's like, Okay. Uh, so, uh, yeah, Warm. Welcome to you Anna. Let the good folks know what is happening today.

Anna Kettle: Yeah. So we've got, um, Pete Farrington joining us in a little bit with a talk that's all about our need for Jesus, and it's part of the continuation of our series that's looking at the Gospel of John and digging into that kind of whole book of Bible and exploring it a bit more. So we're gonna listen to what he's got say about next chapter of John's Gospel and then move to some questions, um, afterwards.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, Conversation Street, looking forward to it. So, uh, we are live on Facebook and YouTube, so if you are joining on the live stream, do feel free to write on the comments. We'd love to hear from you. Uh, if you're watching on catch up a Warm welcome to you and if you're listening to the podcast, which I know many people now do, a warm welcome to you.

Wherever you are listening to the podcast. We hope that you are enjoying it. And speaking of podcasts, Anna, have you been listening to the what story stuff?

Anna Kettle: I have. I've really been enjoying it and I listened to it was the most recent one, Jen Oliver. I really, I really enjoyed her one. I think it released earlier this week.

So Jen, if you're watching, Great. Did really well on that and loved what she had to say just about kind of her relationship with God and lots of different stories she'd lived through, like, you know, kind of illness of her partner, um, miscarriages, death of her dad. Like also, it's great just as you say someone's story about life and how you live every day as a Christian.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah. It was, wasn't it? It was one of those where, um, I, I started doing the conversation with Jen, and sorry for those of you watching and, and listening, don't know what's the story, is the new podcast that we've started doing. So as well as the live streams we now do, what's the story, which is where, uh, we, we, I basically sit down and chat to people about their faith and about the sort of challenges in life that they faced.

And it's a really inspiring conversation because it's just me and them for whatever, however long it is. And Jan's turned out to be an hour and a half long. I mean, well, so that long, It's unbelievable. And we're just, I just got so sucked into this story before. I know. It's like an hour and a half. I'm like, Oh, maybe we should have done this over two.

Anna Kettle: Yeah, I mean that, that is a long one, but it is, it's a great listen. So I totally recommend people Yeah. Tune into that. There's just some, there's a story out there for everyone on that. I think there's lots of different people's stories, like living through cancer diagnosis and all kinds of stuff, isn't there?

Matt Edmundson: So yeah, there is. So do check them out. We've got eight episodes so far. We've got some more coming up. We've got a long list of people waiting to be interviewed for. What's the story? So, uh, yeah, as we get it off the ground, do join in, do subscribe if you like, that kind of thing. It'd be great to see you, uh, in there.

So it's on YouTube, it is on FaceBook, it's on YouTube, and it's on. Wherever you get your podcast from, that's where it's,

Anna Kettle: maybe if anyone else is watching has got an interesting story, like also we could dig into that as well. So do let us know if you've got an interesting story to tell.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Actually, if you wanna be featured on the What's the Story podcast, If you go to the Crowd Church website, there is a little link, uh, on the What's the Story page, which says, be a guest.

And if you click that, um, there's a little form to fill out. If you fill out that form, uh, it'd be great to hear from you. Um, and, uh, yeah, all the information's on there that you need to know about. So do check that out. Yeah. So who else we got here? We've got Matt, we've got Sharon, we've got Miriam, we've got George in the comments.

Good evening everybody. Great to see you in the, uh, evening Queen of Crowd Church. Matt Crew is gonna get punched in the head by Sharon. I think that's just what's gonna happen. Uh, but , sorry. Yeah, yeah, sorry about the jokes. But I will try and video it, uh, when it happens and put it on the uh, Facebook page cuz you're gonna want to see that

Anna Kettle: coming out tonight, isn't it?

Yeah. Sorry, not normally like this.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yeah, there is. Uh, so, uh, should we get into the talk? Oh, hi Sarah. Yeah, I think we have, Yeah, I'm just looking at the comments and trying to talk at the same, I can't multitask currently. Uh, so let's get into the talk from Pete Farrington. Like Anna said, we'll be back after this with Conversation Street.

Do write your thoughts, comments, stories, just contribute, uh, as the talk is going on. I'll be in there. Anna will be in there. George will be in there. Matt will be in there. I have no doubt. Um, so come join us in the comments. It'd be great to see you in there. And then after this talk, and then after a brief time of worship, And then I'll be back to Conversation Street.

So I am looking for the button on my pad. I think hear it is right. We'll see you in a second.

No, it's not working right. Clicking.

Anna Kettle: You're having a real it day, aren't we? ? Me and Matt were saying this before we started, but like my internet dropped out twice while we were preparing. You were saying like you didn't have all the stuff for Yeah, it's going smoothly tonight. Yeah, it's going. See, Go with us everyone.

It's gonna be one of those evening already.

Matt Edmundson: Really polished. Really polished. Right. Here's the talk.

Pete Farrington: Hello Crowd church. It's lovely to be with you. And today we are continuing in our series on the Gospel of John, and I've been tasked with, um, walking us through John chapter four, verse 43 to John chapter six, verse 24.

Um, there's an awful lot in there and there's no way that we can look at it all in detail, uh, today. So I encourage you to, to read through it for yourself. Um, but this passage continues in its series of. Um, four interactions that Jesus has with, with very different individuals. Um, John chapter three begins with a, the very famous conversation, um, that Jesus has with Nicodemus, who was a Pharisee and a ruler of the Jews.

And Jesus, um, brings this man a strong challenge, telling him, No, you haven't understood the scriptures. The whole thing points to me, and you need to be born again. Then in John chapter four, Jesus, um, interacts with, uh, a woman at the, uh, the Samaritan woman at the well, and he confronts her about her sin and then comforts her with the gospel.

Uh, it's a, it's a brilliant conversation and the woman is doing her best to, um, to avoid the challenge. Trying to change the, the topic again and again. Um, but Jesus gets her there in the end. Um, Then after that we see Jesus', uh, encounter with, um, a Roman official who was probably Roman centurian in the service of Herod Antipas.

Um, we will come back to this guy in a minute, but, but after that, Jesus then heals, uh, an invalid in John chapter five. Um, and he, he brings this man of challenge too. Um, I encourage you to read it, but it's after that healing. That tension then really starts to, to spike between Jesus and the Jews. And Jesus makes, uh, a lot of outrageous claims about himself.

Well, that they're outrageous if they're not true. Um, and he becomes even more of a controversial figure, um, as a result of that. But going back to those four encounters, um, the first thing that really struck me was just how different these four people were. So they were. Different ethnicities, different stratas of society, uh, different levels of societal influence and, uh, and being accepted by society.

Different classes. But there are also striking similarities across all four encounters. And I think the first one to note is that, um, they all come to Christ in the exact same manner, with great need and with great longing, um, but with more need than they were even aware of at first. Um, just like us all.

And, and Jesus meets with each individual and treats them as such and, and he sees beyond their felt need. Um, we live in very strange times where many are trying to slice up all of reality into neat categories of those who are oppressed and those who are oppressors and, and really pitting one group against another.

And in many cases, um, Confusing their hatred of one group for their love of another. But Jesus did not interact with these people according to how the world might have perceived them or how we would perceive people today according to where everyone is placed on the oppressor oppressed spectrum. So he didn't say, Oh, a poor, dirty, invalid.

But he also didn't say, Oh, a privileged man in a position of power, gross. We see many times in scripture that Jesus shows, uh, that God chose no partiality, and that to do so is sin. We also see from these four interactions that Jesus had a clear challenge for each person. So I really encourage you to, to walk through, um, the entirety of today's passage, um, in your own time.

But, uh, for now I'd like to hone in on Jesus's encounter with the Roman official, which is, um, in John chapter four, verse 46. So I'll just read. . So he came again. That's Jesus. He came again to Cana in Galilee where he had made the water, wine. And at Capernaum there was an official whose son was ill. When this man heard that Jesus had come from Judea to Galilee, he went to him and asked him to come down and heal his son for he was at the point of death.

So Jesus said to him, Unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe. The official said to him, Sir, come down before my child dies. Jesus said to him, Go, Your son will live. The man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him and went on his way. As he was going down, his servants met him and told him that his son was recovering.

So we asked him the hour when he began to to get better, and they said to him yesterday at the seventh hour, the fever left him. The father knew that was the hour when Jesus had said to him, Your son would live. And he himself believed and all his household, this was now the second sign that Jesus did when he had come from Judea to Galilee.

So just listen to the way that Jesus responds to this man's request. It is absolutely not an answer that I can imagine would ever console anyone in such a situation. Um, Jesus said to him, Unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe. So this man's son is on his deathbed and Jesus is this guy's last hope.

And this is what Jesus said. Unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe. The Greek terms used in this verse are plural. So Jesus is saying, You people, it's like you, people want signs and wonders, and if you don't get them, you people will not believe. Um, I imagine to the official that this response would've seemed like rejection.

Like, okay, that's it. There's, there's nothing more I can do. Um, and at first glance, it feels really cold and harsh. I mean, just imagine being his disciples like, Oh Jesus, what are you doing? This is not the time this man's son is on his deathbed, have a bit of compassion, but Jesus is setting up a challenge for the official.

Are you willing to trust me without seeing proof?

So we really have to ask the question, what is Jesus' ultimate concern here? He wants to develop and perfect a weak faith. Um, I heard a friend say just last week, that God cares more about your character than your comfort. She was absolutely right. God cares more about your sanctification.

That is, um, that the process of him making you more like him, uh, than he does about, um, your, your current situation. Uh, now the official responds by saying, Sir, come down before my child dies. So it's almost like what Jesus said has gone in one ear and come out the other. Um, Jesus is trying to make a theological point and the man clearly had some level of faith, like he clearly to some degree believes that Jesus can heal his son.

Otherwise he wouldn't have made the trip if his son is on his deathbed. Um, maybe he'd heard the story of how Jesus had turned water into wine. . Um, but Jesus was saying, I can do far more than what you were asking. Do you think I need to come with you in order to heal your boy? Do you think I'm hindered by the constraints of time and space?

But more importantly, Jesus was saying, you need far more than what you are asking. But the man is just in absolutely no state of mind to hear. He's like, What has this got to do with my dying son? And he just repeats the same request almost as if he hadn't heard what Jesus had said. Um, but Jesus then says, Go, your son will live.

That's in verse 50. I think what's really interesting here and what is quite easy to miss is that there is a no implied in Jesus's response. He says no to part of the man's request, and he says no to the part without which the man's, uh, thought the miracle would be, uh, wouldn't be possible. Um, Jesus says, No, I'm not coming down with you.

Um, an old school theologian called Charles Spurgeon said about this, uh, about this man here then is the weakness of your faith. Though there is much excellence in it because it makes you pray there is some fault in it because it makes you prudently prescribe to the Almighty how he shall bless you and makes you in effect to impugn his sovereignty and leads you ignorantly to dictate him in what form the promised boon shall come.

And I think spurgeon's absolutely right the the way that, um, this man responds to Jesus challenge and I think the way that we so often do. Puts us above God and dictates to him how it is that he should answer our Prayer, um, by what deadline, uh, in, in what manner, and whether or not he, he should even , um, grant us our requests.

Um, but the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him and went on his way. So he took Jesus at his word and left him. Imagine. Imagine walking away from Jesus, whom you see is your, your, your last hope without being, without even being given a sign as evidence of the miracle. You're just going off this story that you've heard about water being turned into wine and just taking this man's word.

And we see here that faith is, is really trust and obedience. It is not merely, it's not enough to merely, uh, know something. So the man clearly knew something of Jesus. Like he's, he's maybe heard the story about the, the wedding in Cana. Um, but it isn't enough to simply acquire knowledge and subscribe to or affirm a particular set of statements about God, that that isn't what faith is.

Faith is to depend on him and to act in accordance. Do you trust that you can lean into him with the weight of all your need, all your guilt, your shame, your hopes, and your longings? Do you believe the totality of who he is and all that he says about himself and not just the stuff that gives you a warm, fuzzy feeling during a worship song?

Not just when the water gets turned into wine, but when you have to simply take him at his word, turn around and go home. It's astonishing. Um, uh, Spurgeon then, then goes on to say, that is an heroic faith which believes Christ in the teeth of a thousand contradictions. When the Lord gives you that faith, you can say, I consult not with flesh and blood.

He who said to me, Believe and be saved gave me grace to believe, and I therefore am confident that I am saved when I once cast my soul, sink, or swim upon the love and blood and power of Christ. The conscience give no witness to my soul. Though doubts distress me and fears plagued me, yet it is mine to honor my master by believing his word, Though it be contradictory sense the reason rebel against it and present feeling dare to give it the lie.

I think for, for quite some time now, there's been, um, a huge amount of emphasis placed on the goodness of God and that the good, that God has good things in store for you. And I've no, no problem with this at all, but I do think that, um, our problem is that all too often we go around, um, coming up with our own definition of what good means.

And uh, and I think there is a big problem when we focus on certain aspects of God's nature at the total expense of others. Um, so in this instance, God's, God's sovereignty, God's godness that he is not, that he is not man, and we are not God. Um, and, and we, we end up, um, with, with a, a minuscule box that we're trying to cram God into, to, to shape him into.

Some form that, uh, that really looks as much like, that looks, um, as much like us as possible, um, and, and a box which we could never fit. Um, a verse like this, for example, from Isaiah 55, for my thoughts are not your thoughts. Neither are your ways, My ways declares the Lord for as the heavens are higher than the earth.

So are my ways higher than? So are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts? We are not God and we cannot dictate to God how it is that he should, um, how it is that he should deal with us. We have to, we have to take him at His word and we have to come to the scriptures and, uh, see how it is that God defines good and, uh, how it is that God has revealed himself and God is concerned with your ultimate good, namely that you find deep lasting joy in him, not just temporary fleeting joy in your immediate circumstances, and he's far more concerned with your eternal good, then your tomorrow's good. And when we decide that God being good means that he will bring about a certain outcome in a certain way by a certain deadline, we, we actually do set ourselves above God and we, we twist his arm to try and, uh, get him to do the things the way that, that, that we would do them.

And I think this is really a form of idolatry or, or self worship when we try fashion our God in our own image instead of allowing him to conform us to his image. Um, I've, I've thought about these things a lot since becoming a dad, um, because many of the things that I do for my son's good, probably do not feel all that pleasant from his perspective.

Um, so like he absolutely hates it when, when I wash his hair, when I brush his teeth, uh, when he was really little, uh, he used to hate it when I had to use a nasal aspirator. It was really gross and you gotta suck the snot out of his nose. Um, but I do those and I didn't particularly enjoy it , but I, I do those things for his good and I, because I have an understanding of what good is, that he's completely incapable of grasping, at least for now.

And we all know that if a child is never told no, they grow up to be spoiled, selfish, and, uh, just not very pleasant people to be around. Um, and there have been many timesin my walk with God where I've pleaded with God for a, a certain outcome that I was convinced would be good only in time to see that God had a better idea.

And uh, and, and they said to him that it was yesterday, the seventh hour that the fever left him. Um, and the father knew that was the hour when Jesus had said to him, Your son will live. And he himself believed and all his household. So the man's son was healed at the very moment that Jesus had spoken the word.

But he didn't find out until the following day. Um, I was reminded when reading this is something that, um, that a, a preacher called John Piper said that God is always doing 10,000 things in your life and you may be aware of three of them. So God's doing 10,000 things in, in your life at all times. And and that's even when he gives you a partial No.

Or maybe even a total No. Think of Elizabeth Elliott. Her, Her husband killed by the very people that they had gone to reach with the gospel. Um, But, but we see it in this passage. When we take a step back, we see the progression of this man's faith. Um, at the beginning Jesus says, Um, unless you see signs and wonders, you will not believe.

And then later we, we see that the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken and went on his way. And then at the end, this man believed along with this whole house. So, um, In, in, in the middle there. It was like he, this, this man believed that, that, that Jesus was gonna heal his son. But then at the end of the story, we see that faith perfected and this man believing on Jesus, not just for him to do this one thing for him, but trusting him.

And we see that this is actually the, the purpose, uh, John, John tells us towards the end of John's gospel that this is the purpose of the entire book. He says in John 20, verse 31, But these things are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of God, and that by believing you may have life in His name.

Um, Jesus himself said in John Five verse 24, Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. And so, I go back to, um, to those, those words of, um, Charles Spurgeon and, um, and we must, um, we must cast everything that we have upon the love, the blood and the power of Christ and for those who, for those who do.

So, um, we are, we are transformed and we are, um, we are, we pass from death to life, and we have life in Jesus. So thank you and I'll see you next time.

Matt Edmundson: So there you go. That was Mr. Pete Farrington. Followed along by actually his brother John Farrington doing the worship. So Farrington Duo right there. Absolutely. So how did you find that talk miss uh, Mrs. Kettle?

Anna Kettle: I thought it's good. It's very challenging, wasn't it? I mean,

Matt Edmundson: yeah, Pete was straight to it, wasn't it?

Anna Kettle: Like ouch moments.

I think people said that in the comments too, so

Matt Edmundson: yeah. Yeah. There's definitely no, uh, there's definitely no, um, punches spared, I think, uh, to follow out, uh, early analogies of getting slapped. Um, but yeah, I thought, I thought what a phenomenal talk and really interesting that he drew out, um, the story that he did out of that whole passage, that was the thing that he sort of focused in on.

Um, what'd you think? What was the thing that stood out? What was your ouch moment?

Anna Kettle: I mean, there was a couple for me. One of them was, um, I'm just going back to it now, where he said, Oh, just looking for it. Um, one of them was where he said like, God is always doing like, you know, maybe a thousand or 10,000 things in your life.

You may only be aware of three of them. Yeah. And I think it, like links for me, it links to that thing of like, his ways are higher than us. And that whole idea that like, we sometimes say, God, why didn't you do that? Or Why didn't you answer this Prayer? And we look at things in such a human way, like we, what we want to happen.

And kind of, I knew I so often approach God like that in my prayers and in my conversation with him, I'm like, God, I want this. I want this outcome. Please do it for me. And then I get a bit annoyed if he doesn't. Mm-hmm. . And um, you know, and I think that's probably quite normal. That's probably how a lot of people relate to God too much if we're honest and, um, But like, what if like he's doing all these other things for me behind the scenes that I'm totally oblivious to, like protecting me.

And working other things for my good that maybe like, you know, there's blessings in all of our lives on there. There's countless blessings, but like maybe God is working all these things for good in our lives, but we just don't know, notice them or see them because we don't see it behind the scenes of like all that he's doing all the time.

And often we take it for granted and we only notice stuff when it goes wrong. But actually when things are going right in our lives, it's like who knows what God's doing? Like to bless us in that moment. And yeah, it just really stuck with me. I just thought, oh gosh, yeah, I tend to focus on these negative things, um, when it doesn't work out the way I think it should.

But what about all those times? It does. Like, it's good in those moments too. Of course he is. But like, I think it's human nature. Sometimes we say we go to the. You know, negative more than the positives. And yeah, I just think there's so much of what God's doing that we obviously we're not God, we don't see what he's doing.

Um, but yeah, I just, I think I have a tendency to hone in on when it doesn't seem to work out rather than all the times that it does.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, Yeah. I think, yeah. Yeah. I, I agree. I think it's a common human trait, isn't it, that actually, um, when you have a source of pain, that's all you can really focus on. You don't focus on everything else.

And, um, I think it's easy. I, you know, I find it easy in some respects when you are with other people to judge them in terms of when they're going through something that is painful, that's all they can focus on. That's their whole world. Um, and so in their mind, everything is going wrong. But of course, you can point out 10,000 things that are going right because you are not, you're not limited by that pain, are you?

You're not, you're not drawn in by that. And so I, I find it very easy to, to help other people, uh, see the other 10,000 things, but not so easy to make myself, uh, sit back and see the other 10,000 things. And I think you're right. How often do we talk ourselves out of the fact that God's doing something remarkable in our lives because of one thing going over here, which is not quite going, how we think it should go?

And I think that was a bit that, um, when Pete started off with that, it was. , the response that Jesus gave was probably not the one that you'd want to give in the modern world. Is it? And, and, and he just goes, No, I'm, I'm not going there. But of course, if he doesn't go, then in, then in the centurion's mind, the, the servant doesn't get healed.

Right. He doesn't get better. So by saying, No, here it stops. The, you know, it's like, well, hang on. No, this is the first gate we've gotta get through. And we, and that limiting God to going through just the gates that we give him mm-hmm. , I think is, is quite fascinating. Uh, and, and we do it so often and, and, and that prescription, God, you've gotta answer this Prayer, and this is the exact roadmap. I think you should do that.

Anna Kettle: This is the way you should answer it. This is my time scale. And you know, I know you're God, and you might have some other ideas, but I think my idea is best, Yeah. We, we were all guilty of that, aren't we? Like, it's, that's thoroughly human. And anyone who says they don't do that is a liar.

Me and Matt definitely do.

Matt Edmundson: All the time. I remember years ago, um, I worked for, uh, a guy called Simon, and Simon, mm-hmm. lovely fellow. And I still really good friends with Simon. And Simon. Uh, I was working for him. He decided that he was gonna sell his company that I was working for and he was gonna move to New Zealand.

That's what he felt God was saying to him. Mm-hmm. . Well, Sharon and I, uh, praying about this when we found out the news, we're kind of thinking, what does that mean? I'm gonna be at the job. What's gonna happen with the people by the company? Do, you know what I mean? All those things that go through your head.

Yeah. We both felt God say to us separately, You know what Matt? Um, I'm gonna give you that company. And we were like, Okay. Sharon felt that and I felt that and I thought, okay. So we talked to each other about it, but didn't talk to anybody else about it. And I definitely didn't mention it to Simon because I didn't wanna be seen to be manipulating anything in any way.

Yeah. I mean it's like, God, if you're gonna do this, then fair play. Mm-hmm. . Um, but not only did Simon not give me the company, he sold it to somebody else. And not only did the person that he sold it to, not give me the company, I ended up leaving because myself and the person that bought it for whatever reason, we had to part ways.

Let's just put it that way. We didn't really get on that well. And so here I am. Um, Josh was practically a newborn. I am without a job, I'm without an income. I have a newborn baby. My wife has given up work because we have a newborn baby. And I stood there going, God, , Hang on a minute. You, you said Do you know what I mean?

And it wasn't until five years later, it was almost five years to the day I, that company was in effect given to me. Do you know what I mean? But I, I didn't see, when I heard what I heard, God is, God is good. God's gonna gimme this business. I didn't see that meaning five years of a really fascinating journey to get there.

Yeah. Does that make sense? God neglected to tell me that bit. Um, but what was fascinating was I 10,000 things. Right? All I saw was actually no, this, this business I thought God was gonna give me is in the hands of somebody else. Do. Do you see what I mean?

Anna Kettle: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. But I always think of the, um, when I think of stories like that, and you hear them a lot, don't you?

Like God takes the less direct route than we might have chosen to get us somewhere. And you feel like. God's more about teaching us through the journey than getting us to destination quickly. Mm-hmm. Like to the end point, the end point isn't necessarily the only goal, um, which I think he picked upon and he God's more interested in our character than our comfort sometimes.

Mm-hmm. Which I don't think it's, that God doesn't care about our comfort. I don't think he, it is meant in that way that like God wants to give us discomfort. But I think God certainly is interested in sort of journey to get there. He's not interested in getting us to destination quick. Like, I also don't feel like the destination isn't the only point in life.

You know, like God's actually interested in the journey. And it makes me think of like the Israelites in, in the Book of Exodus and the Bible because, you know, they did a journey that was, should have just been days, and it took them like years and years in the desert to get somewhere that you could have actually got to in days if you'd just done the journey directly.

But getting there fast wasn't necessarily God's point. It was like working with them, working through their disobedience, dealing with their heart and their trust in him and all of this other stuff. Yeah. And you know, living in a wilderness for years and years isn't comfortable, is it? It's like all through The Bible I think.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, it is, It's fascinating, isn't it? And when they lived in the wilderness, were they living there because God wants 'em there because they were so pigheaded that's where they needed to be, just to learn a few, I don't know. Do, I mean there's so many things you can sort of sit and think about, but you're right that whole God's God is interested in our comfort because He comforts us.

He comforts us when we mourn. He, you know, we know that from the Bible. But God is very much interested in our character. And I love, I love Pete's analogy actually, where he said, You know what, there are many things that I do for my young son, which I consider to be good. That he does not consider to be good, but my understanding of what is good, and his are very different, and, and Pete's quite right in the sense actually this is his role as a father.

No, no. You clean your teeth kids. Not because I'm trying to win any, you know, any contest for popularity with you, but because I, I, I understand why you need to clean your teeth. Do you see what I mean? Yeah. And there's that, I thought it was a very simple analogy, which kind of goes, Yeah, I'm not God, God's God.

He sees the end from the beginning. And so I have to trust that actually, whilst I don't understand what's going on at the moment, that ultimately God, God's plan is, is one that is good. Do, do you see what I mean?

Anna Kettle: Yeah. And it's a lovely analogy really, because it's not perfect, but it's like the closest like we've got really isn't there to understanding that God's perspective is much greater than our perspective.

Obviously, he's God. And it's like we do have, as parents, we have a much greater perspective on life than our two year olds who are just purely interested in their instant comfort and entertainment. And that's pretty much all they think about, um, at that stage of life. And yeah, it is quite a good analogy for thinking God's view and perspective of the world and of our lives so much bigger than we understand or can comprehend.

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: It's really interesting one, isn't it? Let me see if I can get this to work. I'm gonna try and put the Spurgeon quote on the screen. Dunno this is gonna work or not. So let's click the button and see what happened. Shall we? Oh yes, there. Oh good. It's got my photo. Just cause I put the quote on Facebook, but I'm not Spurgeon.

Just want to point that out. Um.. So here then is the weakness of your faith. Though there is much excellent in it because it makes you pray there is some fault in it because it makes you imprudently prescribe to the almighty how he shall bless you. Uh, it makes you in effect, uh, impugn his sovereignty and leads you ignorantly to dictate to him in what form the promised, uh, boon shall oncome.

And you're just kind of like, I mean I wouldn't have used that language cuz obviously I live in a different era, Spurgeon, but I thought yeah, know what an interesting insight that actually, um, here is the weakness of your faith, though it is excellent because you pray it is weak because you are dictating in effect to the almighty what has to happen.

Um, and. and I, I I love that. I, I I, it is, I'm guilty of it. That's my problem. .

Anna Kettle: Yeah. I think we all are, and this is something I feel really challenged about, like Prayer, it's so easy to just come to God with a shopping list of stuff you want Him to do. You know, almost like your relationship with God feels like a self-improvement plan.

Like, God help this meeting that I'm doing later today go well and help me get a success here and help my child do better there. And you know, and so on and so on. And actually, Prayer is about a two-way conversation with God. And that is something I'm really challenged about at the moment. And actually I need to do a whole lot less talking in my relationship with God and a whole lot more listening.

And if you're like, you know, like, I think probably both you and I are fairly extroverted personality types Matt, but if you are, if you're like someone who likes to talk, Thinks you know what was right already is, that's really hard to do. But I'm like really learning to, and it doesn't come naturally to me, but I'm learning to choose to sometimes just come to God with no agenda and to just sit and be in His presence and to maybe see if he's got anything to say to me or to just drop into my mind rather, than just always come with my agenda and talk at him.

Tell him what I want, because I dunno, it, it just feels like that's not a two-way relationship. But that's, that's very hard to do, especially for people that don't easily sit in silence for long period or even short periods of time. Um, yeah. It's challenging, isn't it?

Matt Edmundson: Oh, massively. But it is so life giving all at the same time.

And I, I totally see that. I think for me, it's, it's one of those things, I'm finding as I Matt Crew said in the comments, um, he likes to remind me of my age, my age. He said, Uh, you are more ancient than Spurgeon Matt Edmundson, uh, thanks Matt. Um, but as I, as me and Charles walk the earth and I'm still walking, uh, I kind of think faith becomes about believing the promises of God, right?

And we know that faith is about believing the promises of God. But like you say, for so many years, that meant actually the promise or the faith target for want of better expression often would come from me. You know, God, this is what I want. This is what I'm in faithful. This is what I'm believing for.

But the older that I get, the more I realize those faith targets, whatever they are, should come from god. And it should be God whispering those and saying, Right, this is, this is what's gonna, you know, this is what we're planning, Matt. Right? And I, I think so often God gives us a sort of an, a destination or a direction, but he doesn't give us those instant steps every day that we need to take.

And that's the walk of faith isn't, It's like, Right. He didn't say to me, Matt, I'm gonna give you the business, but it's gonna be in five years. And to get there, you're gonna have to go through X, Y, and Z. Now maybe He would've done had, I have listened, uh, that maybe, or maybe it's just a case of, actually, Matt, this is what I said, dude, it's what I said.

What's wrong with you? Just what I've said do I mean, And that constant reaffirmation, and actually now this is what God said, regardless of what's going on around me. Mm-hmm. , uh, Anya put here in the comments, See if I can add this. I'm loving this add to broadcasting. The only thing that I'm certain is that God has a plan for me.

There go, You can comment on this one.

Anna Kettle: Yeah, I think that's really good. Um, yeah, I think that I, I agree. And the more I go on in life, it's like I'm not actually so sure that like my way is the right way. And I think as you get older, you just realize you're not always right and you're not always, you know, what you want isn't necessarily what's right for you.

Um, and yeah, I think it's, you know, that I love what she says because it's like holding your hands slightly. Like, I think I said this on my podcast actually, going back to that, I said I've learned if there's one thing I've learned in life, it's to like, it's okay to plan, but write those plans in pencil and it's kinda the same thing.

Yeah. And it's like that it's okay to have ideas and plans, especially if you're strategic type. Like we both work in marketing, right? So we're used to planning, but I think it's okay to have plans, but hold them lightly before God and to be open to his like edits and changes and red, you know, detours and redirecting you and um, and ultimately God is the master planner, isn't he?

Like, we're not in charge of this, this world of our own lives, even fully. Um, he gives us some autonomy, but you know, ultimately yeah, he, you know, it is his plan and, and so I think the best posture is God, these are my ideas, but you know, over to you. Like I surrender them and hold them lightly before you.

Yeah. And actually I feel like when I hold them too tightly and I'm clinging tight to them, that's when life feels a lot harder. Um, quite often. Um, it's a lot easier to walk through life a bit more open handed, I think.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. That's a really interest. That's really powerful. Anna. It's a lot easier to walk through hands, Uh,

It's a lot easier to walk through life a little bit more open handed. Yeah. Um, than trying to hold onto everything so tight. Uh, I think it's, there's such a true and powerful statement, isn't it? I love what Miriam put here in the comments, Let me see if I can find it. God's plan for us is awesome. What do you think to that?

Anna Kettle: Yeah, I think she's right. Like, God is good, isn't he? He's an awesome God. So I'm sure that's true, but I thinks still that act of faith to believe that, isn't it? Especially when life's throwing you a hard deal. Like that's easy to believe when life's going well, but it is that thing of like, you begin to question or doubt if something really difficult comes your way.

If you go through a season of pain or loss or. All kinds of difficult stuff that we talk about here at Crowd. And yeah, it doesn't make it less true, but I think it's harder to believe that when you're going through those seasons, as we said. Um, but absolutely, you know, that it's, you know, it's keeping in those times, as we said before, it's keeping, trying to keep sight of the big picture.

Isn't that, not just your immediate pain, It's like God's in that and he cares about that. But also there is still a bigger picture.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, there is a bigger picture and it's, it is interesting actually, cuz again, going back to something that Pete said, um, and just touching on what Miriam said about God's plan being awesome.

You first have to define what you mean by awesome. Uh, just like we have to define what we mean by good because we have definitions of what that means and usually it means something good for me. Mm-hmm. or if God's plan is awesome, that means I've got an awesome life in front of me and you. Your interpretation and twisting of that is quite fascinating.

I've got a, a, a lovely friend called Felicity, and Felicity is just one of my favorite people on the planet. I get to, She, they, they live in a different country, but one day of the year we get to hang out with them and mm-hmm. , she's, she's just lovely. And I always remember a conversation I had with Felicity about this word awesome.

And, and her belief that actually we overuse it in the English language. Um, you know, she said she heard somebody in a coffee shop say, Oh, that, that panini looks awesome. And she's like, No. How can a panini be awesome? God is awesome. A panini is a panini, Do you know what I mean? And that that sort of trivial use of language and you're kind like, No, God, you are full of, oh, you are full of wonder.

You are God, you are Lord. You are the supreme, you know? Yeah, dude. And actually knowing that holding, as you say, plans lightly in my hand.. Well, that, that's, that's what we call submission to the lordship of Christ. Right? That's recognizing that God truly is awesome, that his plan, his ways are awesome, but that also means they are, as Pete read out, they are way beyond our thinking, right?

Mm-hmm. , I'm like, I'm like Pete's two year old son, not understanding why I've gotta clean my teeth, not understanding why I've gotta brush my hair and wash my face. I don't want to, I don't want to, and I throw my tantrums. Uh, but actually when we stand back and see that actually God is awesome, regardless, like you say, hard to do, but super powerful.

Right. Super, super powerful.

Anna Kettle: Yeah, for sure.

Matt Edmundson: Really good stuff. Really good stuff. Mr. Farrington, I've enjoyed this particular conversation, uh, and this particular talk. I thought that was a really good topic. Um, yeah, and deep diving onto, cuz you said it as well, isn't it? That actually, um,

this is true, right? Regardless of, of what we think. This is not, it's not always the popular opinion, it's not always easy street mm-hmm. , but returning back to this fundamental truth that Jesus is Lord, it's kind of at the heart of the gospel.

Anna Kettle: Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's, you know, it's, yeah, as you say, it's not popular and it's not even something we always enjoy.

Like it's painful, isn't it? Sometimes we'd rather be in control of our own lives. And I, and I think I, so much of it's about control. It's like I want to control the outcomes. I want to control my own life. I want to. Be my own mini Lord of my life, really, if we're honest. Um, and yeah, you're right. It's coming back to the lordship of Christ, isn't it?

That actually Yeah. Submitting to that rather than kind of what Yeah. Our own lordship. And I think, you know, we live in a world which is so, um, well, it's so kind of individualistic now. It's all about your own needs and your own desire, you know, and, and consumer culture and the whole world we live in now, I think probably even more than, you know, the time when this story is told and Jesus' time.

It's much more, we think about, you know, our individualistic needs a lot more. We think about, you know, everything's very media, very consumer-led. Um, we choose what we want and we buy instantly online, don't we? And so I think this is really hard for us to get our heads around, like we don't have control over everything.

And, you know, Like, that's okay if we, you know, and I think I used to really struggle with this. I am a bit of a control freak by nature, but I think the thing that squares it for me is learning or realizing that the one that you're putting faith in though is worthy of trusting, and I think that's the thing that squares it for me.

It's like, I will trust God because I believe he's good and he's awesome and he's, for me, and all of those things that we've said. I think if you don't truly believe that that is what God is like, it's very hard to fully trust him. Mm-hmm. , um, and surrender to him, really. So, Yeah. Yeah. A lot of it's about trusting, trusting God is who he says he is.

Matt Edmundson: That's such a powerful point, isn't it? That actually when you understand that truth about God, I think faith becomes easier. But if, if in your head God is not like that, it becomes much, much harder. I remember the conversation with Jen. You know, we were talking about Jen's story and what's the story podcast?

And for me, um, the, the thing about doing that podcast and interviewing people like yourself, like Jen and various others, is actually everybody has these challenges. Everybody face really complex situations in life. And for me, the inspiring ones are the ones that go, I don't know, I dunno the answers. I don't know why.

I can't tell you why I'm in pain. I want it to stop, but in the midst of that, I am gonna rise. And rise doesn't mean, you know, like the self-improvement rise. Like, I'm gonna rise up and conquer. Do you know what I mean and take the land. Yeah. It's rising. For me, rising up is a case of, of holding out your hands and going, God, I don't know, but I do know enough to trust you because you are good.

Yeah. And if, and that's as far as they can. So many of the stories that's as far as they could get was just in tears. Just saying that over and over again. And ultimately I think it's incredible and I think it's inspiring when you have that unshakable faith like that. Um, it doesn't change situations and circumstances overnight, but man, it's from, from me listening to all the stories, it's inspiring.

Super inspiring.

Anna Kettle: Yeah, that's good.

Matt Edmundson: So I think we Sure, and I'm just going down the comment here. God's plan for Steven was awesome. Says, let me add this to podcast. God's plan for Steven was awesome. Paul's life for God was awesome. We don't understand it, but God does. So, uh, for those of you may not understand, Steven was the first martyr in the Bible.

Uh, he was stoned to death for his faith. In the Book of Acts, we will get onto Steven's stories. We go through the Book of Acts in the new year. Uh, Paul was the apostle Paul who wrote most of the New Testament. , what a colorful life he had, uh, to say the least. Um, and so yeah, we don't understand it and there's a lot of stuff going on.

You kind of go, Why? But again, in the midst of that going, God, we trust you, uh, is, is just extraordinary thing to be able to, to be able to do. So, uh, Matt says here, as we approach the end of our live stream, uh, if you are watching or listening along and need Prayer, uh, get in touch, uh, with us via DM at Crowd Church on Instagram or Facebook.

Love it. Matt. Matt, you're right. Totally right.

Anna Kettle: He's doing your job for you tonight, Matt. It's awesome. Thanks for saying it. Thanks Matt. Yeah,

Matt Edmundson: yeah. I said I couldn't, couldn't have put it better myself. Uh, it does go without saying of course. If you would, like, we are a church. We do believe in Prayer. We do believe God answers Prayer not always in the way that we want him to as the Centurian found out earlier and as we've been talking about.

But we still pray. We still believe God is good and we still believe God can intervene. So if there's anything you would like Prayer for, do get in touch with us and let us know. Uh, Sheila got in touch with us earlier on Instagram. Uh, we send a message back saying, Listen, praying, praying for your mom, uh, which is, you know, what she asked for.

So yeah, absolutely. Just get in there, uh, send your Prayer request. We would love to hear from you. Uh, Matt also put here in the comments, uh, where did it go? I've seen it. Oh, here we go. Uh, join us on Wednesday for our midweek Prayer groups. Uh, check out website, Crowd Church, more information. So yes, we do gather during the week for a Prayer group.

Um, if you'd like to come along, uh, and connect with people, get to know people, we'd love to see you there. Uh, George is putting the comments here. Join us next week where Jack Mariner talks through the next passage in John's Gospel, all about the Bread of Life, I was having a phenomenal chat with John Harding about the next passage.

Uh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't realize this, but did you know that Bethlehem means House of Bread?

Anna Kettle: I did not know that. That's interesting.

Matt Edmundson: Ah, yes. So that's a little tibit for you for next week ahead of, uh,

Anna Kettle: ahead of people. It sounds like it's gonna be a Yeah. Exciting.

Matt Edmundson: It's gonna be a doozy. Oh yes. Uh, and as you expect conversations with John Harding, we get deep into biblical, uh, Greek and Hebrew.

Cuz he is on one now, Isn't he doing his, um, Hebrew, Yeah. Uh, stuff. Um, so yeah, it's been great to be with you this week. Thank you so much for joining. Thanks for being in the comments. Uh, do come back and join us next week. Anna, anything else from you?

Anna Kettle: Just to say, have a great week, everyone. Be blessed. And yeah, uh, stay in touch if you need anything like Prayer or anything else like we've said,

Matt Edmundson: absolutely.

Yeah, do come join us next week. So that's it from myself, from Anna. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for joining us in the comments and for all your kind and wonderful comments. It's been so good to hear from, uh, from you guys today. Uh, we'll see you next week. The live stream is gonna end now.

So, uh, that's it for myself. That's it from Anna. Bye for now.

Anna Kettle: See ya.