In this episode, Sophie Jackson speaks with Michelle Ang, CFO at Daimler Truck Financial Services. They explore Michelle's journey through senior finance roles across Asia and now Germany, and look at the key decisions and experiences that shaped her path, as well as her insights on leading diverse global teams, championing psychological safety and the power of storytelling in the boardroom.

Hello and welcome to Ask A CFO, the podcast series shining a light on the different paths taken to becoming Chief Financial Officer, as well as exploring the personal stories of those that have made the journey. I'm Sophie Jackson and in today's episode I'm joined by Michelle Ang, CFO of Daimler Truck Financial Services.

Together, we explore her personal journey from her early years in Singapore through senior finance roles she held across Asia and Japan and now Germany to her current role as CFO. We also look at the key decisions that shaped her career and hear her insights on leading diverse global teams, championing psychological safety and the power of storytelling in the boardroom.

Hi, how are you, Michelle?

Good.

Okay. So first of all, can you tell me a little bit about yourself? Introduce yourself.

My name is Michelle Ang. I'm CFO of Daimler Truck Financial Services. I moved with my family to Germany a year ago and it is not my first time back in Germany. But coming back a second time in the CFO role does have a different lens around how I have done a previous treasury role here in the group, especially moving from Japan to Germany. I think they are really quite a bit of a contrast.

But also coming into a P&L responsibility, was something that, on the one hand, challenging. But I think looking one year on, it was really probably the dream job that I have had in mind to date.

And I think it marries a lot how personal growth. And when I was asked if I would take on the role, it was also clear that championing individual growth and also having to work through career resilience. And all the doubt, if you were ready, my recommendation to everyone, go for it because that learning curve and that growth opportunity is something that you should be a part of and not shy away from that.

Amazing. And I mean, I can't remember exactly when we first met, but it must be something like ten years ago, something like that in Singapore.

Absolutely.

It has been such a privilege and a pleasure to watch your journey and just see you just smashing through going up the ladder. So I am so thrilled that we can have you on Ask A CFO because this is somebody, there's about three people I'd say that I've really watched the whole journey, so it's not many. It’s really amazing that you stay involved with the community and keep sharing with everybody your lessons learned. So thank you so much.

So I do know you, but for our audience, going back as far as you're comfortable, can you tell me a little bit about your early life and what first sparked that passion or that capability and interest in a career in finance?

So I grew up in Singapore. I'm a third generation Singaporean. I was raised in an education in Singapore that championed bilingualism. It was even mandatory.

But I have to admit, and it's still strange when I tell my European counterparts that English is my first language, and I had to pick up Mandarin or Chinese as a second language, as in my household as well, my parents were communicating to me in English. So I think that's a very unique point, which today I'd still have to explain to some of my colleagues how it's even possible.

However, there was always a common theme of fitting in, right? Because by nature of being in Singapore, we are multiracial, multicultural. The government has approached a very structural way of cultivating diversity and inclusion.

But I have to admit, growing in such an environment, you always had this view of how you fit in. Because it was not so much in my formative years, a homogeneous culture.

And I believe my coping mechanism of trying to find a way how I fit in was always trying to find a common language. And whether or not it's bilingualism that allowed me to reach out to more people in different languages, to then adopting this mindset going to finance, I found it quite a natural step because in finance, figures and numbers, that's your common language and you utilise your common language to build bridges with others.

That was a very common theme of my upbringing in Singapore that then naturally led me to go into a field that has a lot of depth and breadth because there is a common language that you can identify and you can reach out to others.

So much of what you're saying just very strongly resonates with me and it's not something that I think I'd actively thought about like that. So I'm also bilingual from when I was quite young. My grandfather taught me French when I was about three.

And the other day me and my friend were talking about what your superpower we would like to have. And I said to be able to speak every language because I think once you've had exposure to one or two second languages and you see the amazing avenues it opens up, the ability to connect with people on their level rather than always coming back to English. It really is magical. And I'd never connect the dots between that and finance. So I love that you said that. Thank you so much.

So you, as many of our community, our original Treasury Today community have, started your career in treasury. That path from treasurer to CFO is one that we know many amazing people that have taken, but it's not the usual route, I would say, by any means, that you have to step outside of the conventions and really be an exceptional individual with a different mindset.

So what were some of the standout moments for you or experiences in those formative years in treasury that you think really helped you prepare for your CFO role?

I think there was an inherent trait necessarily in order to be a successful treasurer, and that's being curious.

And also the ability to translate what's going externally towards an internal value within the organisation is a very strong trait that I harnessed over the years being a treasurer. But most importantly, it's about execution and discipline.

And I found these traits, curiosity and execution orientation, very helpful in my CFO role because you do need to make sense of what's going on outside the world and not be too hung up on what's happening internally.

But most importantly, we can discuss to the ends of the world. We need to execute and take a decision because in a world of high volatility, you can't actually plan to the last possibility or your scenarios. You might have to take calculated steps and then probe if your theory works and make adjustments along the way. So I think that element of execution, timed with maybe an 80-20 plan, is a very important aspect which I enlight.

And I think the training that I had in treasury gave me a lot of tailwind in how I approach the CFO role and also had the organisation see progress along the way, rather than look into pipeline of projects that stretches across multi-years. Because I think the external markets are certainly and the geopolitical situation is moving at different pace than it was perhaps more than a decade ago.

Absolutely. And you also, you mentioned early on there, and obviously it's something that I was very fascinated in your international experience. Not many people, particularly women who have no connection familially to Japan, take on senior roles there. So I think you know that I also worked in Japan early on in my career and it was the most challenging and the most rewarding thing I've ever done, often in the same day.

And when you moved over to Japan with Daimler, I was just so in awe of it because that's a big jump. You've had experiences in such vastly different countries and cultures. I'm thinking now that from what you said, that base of Singapore being such a multinational country with so many languages, and people coming from all over the world may well have given you some helpful tools on that journey.

But tell me what has living and working internationally taught you on a personal front as well as a professional front? Because I think it's such an explosion of every part of your life when you move to such largely different cultures. So tell me a bit about that journey for you.

I sort of thrive in such environments. Just to also underline, I changed, of course, from a luxury passenger car industry to a transportation commercial vehicle industry. And there was also a change with my move to Japan. And it was at the plant, whereas in Singapore and many of my other locations, I was in a skyscraper with modern offices.

So there was really a stark contrast with really getting out of my comfort zone and going to a new industry. But I never looked back. And I really would say that might have been the biggest decision, but also the best decision because that leap of growth I had in going to a new industry, new culture in Japan is definitely not like the rest of Asia.

But leading through different cultures and understanding how you reach out, as I say, in a finance role, it helps that you have a common language. But there is one common theme, I think, working in different locations. It's, and also over the years, I think I've matured enough to think that compassion is totally underrated as a leadership skill.

Absolutely.

And I do believe it doesn't matter whether culture, language or gender, we need to have the ability to recognise each other as humans. And as humans, there will inherently be mistakes. And how do you deal when a mistake occurs?

I think there are various levels of intensity when talking about Japanese culture versus maybe a Singapore culture versus a German culture. But there's a common theme. If we want to champion innovation in an organisation, and that's where everybody is heading for, we need to find a mechanism to also embrace psychological safety. And it's got a lot to do with how we as leaders create a safe environment for failures.

And that was a very common theme moving into different locations, which I believe was so different actually from one country to another and one culture to another, because I think there's a common thread that links us all. I mean, we're all humans.

100%. I love so much of what you said there. And I think on the kind of leaning into challenges front. I think I can remember every time I've moved somewhere for work, I remember now I can take myself back to getting on that plane, like that feeling that you packed up your apartment, you've given it up, you're on a plane and you feel like you're jumping off a bridge into something.

And now I talk to friends when they're having the same feeling and I'm like, that excitement means you're doing the right thing. And if it doesn't work out, you learn and you pivot but I can really distinctly remember that kind of electric awareness that you're about to do something so different. So thank you for sharing that.

And then I think this idea of the curiosity and the psychological safety is so interesting because I think this fits with the broad evolution that everyone is going through at the moment. You know, with the advent of so much transformation of with AI, with everything. You need to be curious.

To be curious, you need to feel safe. When we're feeling defensive and frightened, we are not curious. We batten down the hatches, and we tend to get so tight in what we're used to doing because that feels brave. So I think that's such an important skill to be harnessing right now. Thank you so much for that.

You've also had responsibility over your career for the US market. So tell me a little bit about the journey of leading across different cultures and how that fits in within a capacity of diversity as well. Because I think all of your experiences, as you've said, that have given you these amazing skills of compassion and understanding different perceptions. But now that you're leading diverse teams across the world, how does that apply to you when you think about DEI?

So first of all, we've rebranded our company programme into culture and belonging. And I think that's also very specific to how we include our US teams into our global initiatives.

I think we've made great breakthroughs in trying to have all-hand meetings that everybody would have a chance to pitch in. We are also in the midst of a relocation, bringing all our businesses under one roof into Charlotte in the US.

So we've got quite a bit of transformation ongoing. And I certainly like... to have my team. I will reunite with the team later in September. But it's been a journey and I'm glad to actually see the progress. You can also see that excitement. And I think it's really great in times like these, with a lot of volatility, with a lot of changes. And to a certain extent, the geopolitical relationships between US and the rest of the countries do also take a toll on our business.

How to include the US team to continue to pitch in as part of the global team is top of my agenda. And I think I'll continue to do that. That's my contribution to bringing that one team concept.

Excellent. And I mean, the automotive industry is traditionally a very male dominated space, I think, to put it mildly. And the CFO function within that, I would imagine, is even more so. So what's your experience been like building a career and leading within that backdrop?

So when my Group CFO asked me if I would take on this role, I actually told her, looking back, she's probably my first female boss. And she was shocked because she said, you come from Singapore. How is that even possible?

So I'm very proud that in Daimler Truck, we have both CEO and CFO as females. They are mothers as well. I think you might have recalled the discussion we had when I was in Japan. To have role models in the industry, in the organisation is a big deal. And I'm glad that I chipped in because I'm really proud that we are driving that transformation right from our leadership diversification.

I'm glad to be also playing a part of it. I always believe as females, we are great risk managers because we tend to have a very holistic view on different aspects of managing an issue. And therefore, I don't really see that at Daimler Truck that we do have a huge male domination. That might be an outlier. There's still much to be done.

And I'm also championing in my talks with the emerging leaders in my organisation how they can chip in, how they can lean in, because I think these talks are very key. I have talks with individuals who say, well, when I'm also doing my family planning, maybe I shouldn't chip in for a larger role. And I tend to tell them why not. Because I think, especially here in Europe, we have the framework to support a balanced growth, whether it's on your personal planning as well as your career planning.

In some other jurisdictions, it may be harder, but I think overall, in my role, I'll do everything I can to enable this. We've got part-time work, we've got tandem work as well going on, even in Japan. And I think that's really a great example to share. That's also a way of paying back to society to include everybody.

Amazing. And you should be very proud. And I know, I mean, there are lots of leaders that say the right things when it comes to this kind of work. But I have watched you behind the scenes for a long time, always putting up your hand and coming up with great ideas and brainstorming with me how we can do things. So I really appreciate you and I'm sure many people do.

Tell me, so you've talked a little bit about that conversation when you were coming into the CFO role. What drew you towards the role and what have been some of the biggest highlights for you, as well as challenges that you've overcome since taking on the role?

So I didn't really see it as a CFO role per se. On hindsight, I don't think there's too much glamour in it. There's a lot of padded sweat in it. But I wanted a P&L responsibility.

As you know, having a long career in treasury, you were always a supplier to a business and you were an advisor to the business. And I inherently get involved in a lot of discussions with the business on how I can advise them. So it was always sitting on the sidelines. What drew me was getting into the arena and driving that result. And I think that really drew me to it above anything else.

Amazing. And then we're all talking a lot about how things are evolving. Everyone's role is evolving. Everyone's industry is evolving. Society is evolving at a rate I don't think I've seen in my lifetime. So how have you seen your role as a CFO evolving as companies are, as you well said earlier, navigating so much change, so much innovation, and an increasing depth of global complexity.

I usually make an analogy; you sort of like a total business owner. And I come into the role not just as a pure finance pillar. And with my role in treasury, I inherently get asked a lot to give advice on ideas. So let's sort of marry this too, but coming back to the point that when you have ownership for the results and the P&L of a company, you have skin in the game. You should not just be reporting what has happened. I mean, there is the portion of the fiduciary and the governance role, which is a necessary part of my role, but I do believe how you shape the business how you basically transform, how you work strategically on what the needs of your workforce is.

I mean, AI is a big topic in my industry, in the financial services industry. We are also at the cusp of major skills transformation of our workforce. But I maintain that there will always be a human in the loop in an AI solution.

Yeah.

And it's our responsibility as leaders to try to embrace technology, create the psychological safety, but also nurture the future skill set of the workforce. Excites me a lot because I think in the next five years, we're going to have the biggest transformation in this part.

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree with you. And I this year has seen like my own journey with AI has really shown me so much about the kind of steps we can take to support each other. So I was fortunate enough to go to a workshop for free that was hosted by a female founders network. And since then, it's transformed like half the business, like loads of the work that I'm doing. Whenever I have a problem now, I know there'll be a tool out there. You know, I was doing some legal issues recently and I managed to find a tool that helped me. And it really is amazing.

But you have to So get back as much as you put in. Like it's not, I think people have this concept that you're just outsourcing something, but no, you're in a relationship with it constantly. And the more human you are in curating and editing and prompting and reverse prompting, then the better it is. So I think it's great.

And if you can help people with those first steps, I've now helped more than 10 other people do the first steps that I did. So it's like a knock on effect. And I think there's a lot of fear that people are holding. And if we can talk about those fears before starting and hold those in mind, I think that's very powerful. So thank you for sharing that.

So obviously you have had a very impressive career journey. Many of our audience either aspire to the CFO role or are curious about even first steps in their finance journey. For our listeners at any stage of their career, what's one piece of advice that you'd like to leave them with?

I would say the role of the CFO is also evolving with time. You need to be a business partner, even better if you are embedding yourself in the business. It's really a myth that you're just churning out the numbers and reporting and guiding. You need to be also seen as a strong partner to the business. And I do think it comes back to my original point, finding that common language. It's actually not so easy to translate numbers into a narrative that people in your front end that are serving the customers can easily understand.

And therefore, for listeners of any age, have that curiosity of the business. Don't look at finance or treasury as a silo because the effectiveness of that function can only be when the business and finance or treasury works together and that you are comprehensible what you're trying to bring across to the table.

And therefore, at all stages of your life, have that curiosity of business, maybe moving a slight step outside finance, get closer to the business, that can only enrich your journey.

Amazing. I love what you said there because I think one of the skills that sometimes, especially the more introverted type of treasury, because I think treasury lends itself to introverted characters. I consider myself also an introvert, but to be able to story tell and to be confident storytelling is a very important skill to have.

I think when I think of the most impressive people I've met who do jobs that I have no intellectual ability to understand, but they can tell it to me in a way that is just, illuminating, very clear, very comprehensive and very relatable. They found a way to connect with me. So I think honing that story selling craft, as you've well said, is very helpful there.

What are some of the things that you've done to be more confident in telling stories? And have there been any tools that you've used that you think would be helpful for people?

So I have been in boardrooms And I was confidently presenting what I thought was self-explanatory. And I've had like board members tell me, like, I have no clue at all what you're trying to say. And that's that humility that hits you in the phone. And I usually, you know, I try to look at how can I tell the story simpler. I tend not to look at, oh, well, you know, you've not understood me. Now you've got to figure that out.

I think putting aside that arrogance and maybe that's also how we as female leaders tend to approach the topic, how can we get better?

Yeah.

And I found that to be really exhilarating that we have that level of transparency and honesty in a high-stakes decision making round that somebody could tell you that I didn't understand what you're talking about. And you have to go back and figure out how you can bring the message clearer. It's a very healthy, truth-talking way of leading decisions at the boardroom.

Absolutely. I love that. Thank you so much. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience or anything that's on your mind at the moment that you think would be of use?

I'm happy to also have any one of the listeners reach out to me. I'm more than happy to connect with this community. As said, the Treasury Today Forum is certainly one that helps me connect with other professionals in this field, but also reach out. I think every story and every connect that I make certainly helps me learn a lot. And I look forward to having that reach out from every one of you.

Amazing. And obviously we are very, very lucky that we will be hosting you on the stage at our Women in Treasury & Finance Forum in September. So I can't wait to hear you. So thank you so much for sharing your story for debt today, for being part of the community for a long time. Thank you so much, Michelle.

Looking forward. Thank you so much.

A very big thank you again to Michelle for joining us and sharing her story. If you enjoyed this episode, please do subscribe and share and stay tuned for the next Ask A CFO episode as we continue to share the journeys of current and former CFOs across the world. Thank you.