Host: James

Guest: Tyler D. – Author, Revert, Seeker

Tyler D. was raised in a Christian household where faith played a central role, but certain doctrines left him with lingering questions. After years of honest seeking, study, and spiritual reflection, he found clarity and peace in the direct, unambiguous message of Islam.

@runningfromdunya on IG and TikTok

His books are available at https://stan.store/RunningFromDunya

Runtime: 54 minutes

🎙️ Episode Summary:

“The real battlefield isn’t out there—it’s inside you.” — Tyler D.

In this heartfelt and wide-ranging conversation, James welcomes Tyler D., a fellow Muslim revert, author, and former trucker, to talk about the journey from Christianity to Islam, the role of inner jihad (spiritual struggle), and the challenges of living a grounded, God-centered life in modern America.

Tyler shares his deeply personal story of embracing Islam after 30 years as a practicing Christian. From questioning the Trinity as a child to eventually taking his shahadah, his journey highlights the power of sincere seeking, critical thinking, and spiritual honesty. Together, James and Tyler explore the real meaning of Islam, the importance of fellowship in both recovery and religion, and the overlapping struggles of addiction, temptation, and maintaining a disciplined spiritual practice in a society designed to distract.

From truck stops to tawheed, from sugar addiction to spiritual discernment, this episode is packed with authentic, unscripted reflections that speak to both reverts and long-time Muslims—as well as anyone navigating recovery, faith, and the pull of the dunya.

💡 Key Topics:

• Tyler’s path from Christianity to Islam—and the unanswered questions that led him there
• Media distortion and common misconceptions about Muslims in post-9/11 America
• Conversations with Christian family members after reverting
• How fellowship and spiritual companionship (suhba) help us stay grounded in the Deen
• The discipline of prayer, even while on the road as a trucker
• Navigating zuhd (detachment) and fitna (temptation) in social media and society
• The overlap between relapse in recovery and relapse into dunya
• Understanding the inner jihad (jihad al-nafs) as the truest spiritual battlefield
• Sugar, insulin, and the surprising parallels between addiction and dietary health
• Dawah in action: how Tyler uses his rideshare gig to distribute free Qurans and educate the public
• The origin of the world’s oldest university—and what that says about Islam and education

📚 Book Recommendations:

• The Clear Quran – recommended for English-speaking readers and those with Christian backgrounds
• Islam Belief and Teachings – by Gulam Sarwar one of the first books Tyler read during his reversion journey
• James’ website offers links to request a free physical or digital copy of the Quran at soberseekerpath.com

And welcome everyone to the third ever episode of Path of the Sober Seeker.

My name is James.

I'm an alcoholic, and I'm gonna be your host today.

We're gonna start today, as always with El.

Ah, me and May Law bless off all of us today.

I'm gonna welcome Tyler d who is gonna be our guest today.

He's a mu Muslim revert and author and does a lot of work with the Muslim

community here in Cleveland, Ohio.

Uh, Tyler, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, brother.

I'm just, I'm so happy to, so happy to be here, man.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Okay, so, uh, let's get into it.

You wanna tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit

about your journey to Islam?

Yeah, definitely, man.

So, um.

So I've been, I've been Muslim for a few years now.

I wanna say about about three years now to be exact.

Um, I was Christian, raised Christian, and was Christian for

probably close to 30 years, right?

So I have, uh, lots of knowledge about Christianity.

Uh, lots of reasons why I ended up leaving.

But I went through a journey, personal journey, spiritual journey, where, um.

I wanted to learn more about what o other religions were, was saying.

And, um, you know, so I studied more about Christianity.

I started, uh, studying, you know, the big three, if you will.

Right.

Um, then, uh, I kept coming back to Islam, kept coming back,

kept coming back, kept coming back.

So I'm like, you know what?

I'm just, I'm just going to head first, head first, right into the

water, you know, and, uh, started studying it and I started to, um.

Learn things.

That was contradictory to what a lot of people were saying about Islam

because you know, with me growing up, all you would hear was bad things.

You know, you'd hear stuff, you know, oh, Muslims are like this.

Oh, you know, terrorists this, oh, you know, nine 11, this, you

know, you'd hear stuff like that.

Um, and I remember asking my mom one time, uh, I said.

Mom, uh, what do you know about Muslims?

And she looked at me and she was like, you know what?

I really don't know anything about them, but all I know is that

whatever they do, we don't do.

And I just paused.

I'm like, Hmm.

Well.

I started learning and, and uh, and through all of my research I ended

up doing my shahada because I fell in love with everything I learned.

There was nothing like what, what other people was saying it was about.

Absolutely.

Did you find, you know, coming from a Christian background, and

this is common with a lot of aver.

It's, especially in Western society is a lot of people are brought up in

a Christian home and they have, you know, it doesn't make sense to them the

concept of the Trinity, for example.

Yes.

I see this in so many, you know, so many, uh, revert story.

They don't understand how, you know, one single God can be three separate entities.

Um, how did you reconcile that?

You know, that was a really big thing and you know, that was the first.

Like real question that I asked my parents, um, because from a

young child that that was the very first question I ever asked.

I said, uh, mom, um, so I know, and, and we, we, we had just left church when

I asked this question, um, I said, I know that they keep saying, you know,

the Trinity Father, son Holy Spirit, and it keeps saying that Jesus is God.

Well, the first question I asked her was, I said, mom, um, if Jesus is God.

Then who is he praying to?

And they looked at me and they were like, Hmm, you know what?

We don't have an answer for that.

So you should go and find that answer for yourself.

And I did.

And I found that answer with Islam.

Absolutely.

Well, I mean, Jesus, peace be upon him was a Muslim.

Correct.

I mean, he, that's really, it's, I think this is one of the misconceptions

a lot of people is, you know, Americans, Western society in general.

Um, and we read this in recovery circles too, that it's, um, you know,

Islam is peace, but it's literally the peace that you get from surrender.

Right?

And

a Muslim is someone who, you know, submits to the will of God, the will

of Allah, and, uh, all the prophets.

Yeah, all the prophets were doing directly doing the will of a law.

Alright.

Uh, Tyler, let me ask you, what are some of the other misconceptions, um, that you

feel we run into in America about Islam?

Oh man.

You know what?

Um, so going through the misconceptions, it would be easier to.

Talk about what they got right.

Instead of what they got wrong, because there is just so many, you know.

And so, um, I I, I actually wrote a book about misconceptions about

Islam called clearing the fog, right?

And I go through different misconceptions, you know, so, um, like how the

media is always focused on like, uh, extremists, you know, Muslim

extremists, you know, if, if somebody.

Commits a crime.

Right.

If he is a non-Muslim, they will never bring up his religion.

It is.

They just say, oh, it's some guy that did some crime.

Right, right.

But if it's in, in, you know, in an Arab or somebody who's Muslim,

the first thing they're gonna say, it's oh Muslim man, you know?

Whatever the crime was, you know, which I find in incredibly, uh, not fair.

Uh, you know, I, I guess you could say, um, I would say a misconception would

be that all terrorists are Muslim.

Right?

Right.

Like, Muslim people are the only terrorist in the world.

You know, there's billions of Muslims in the, in, in this country, for one,

you know, well in, in the world, right?

But if, if all Muslims were.

Terrorists or whatnot.

There, there would be nobody left.

Right.

You know?

Yeah, that's true.

We're everywhere.

There's 2 billion Muslims.

Well, we live, you know, we do live in a post nine 11 world,

and I think that was a turning point for a lot of Americans.

It was.

You saw that.

And it is, you know, the news and media, they're gonna

sensationalize anything they can.

Um, there, and you, and you see this as a pattern in any, you

know, anything they report on.

Yeah.

You know, and it's, it's always some nonsense.

You know, you'll see the, um.

You know, 'cause they're not trying to inform the people.

They're trying to sell ad space on their, you know, on their channel.

Yeah.

So they'll sensationalize it and it'll be some something, some nonsense.

They'll be like, oh, a playground swing broke today in Parma,

your children are in danger.

Tune at 11.

You know, it's some not, it is just some nonsense.

But they're trying to sell ads, you know, they're trying to sell

that ad space so they're gonna sensationalize it and build it up.

'cause they're trying to draw people's attention in.

And as you know, as humans, we like drama.

You

know, and the, the bloodier and more violent it is, the

more attention it's gonna get.

So when you had a catalyst like nine 11 and it's, you know, but immediately,

almost overnight there was all this anti-Muslim sentiment in America.

And at the time I wasn't, I wasn't even a Muslim yet.

Yeah.

Um, at the time that happened, I was living in Florida and we had, um.

You know, right.

A right after it happened, you started to see a lot of just, uh,

street violence against Muslims.

You know, there were like, people were, you know, assaults were

happening, shootings were happening.

This is just, you know, Americans were lashing out anywhere any way

they could, uh, because the media was saying, oh, well these are the bad guys.

Yep, yep.

Headlines.

Headlines is what gets views.

Right.

Exactly.

And that's all, all they want, man.

It's really, it, it's really, really unfortunate.

Um, so coming from a, um, you know, we're gonna get a little bit personal here.

I understand that you, you know, you grew up Christian.

Mm-hmm.

Presumably your family is still Christian.

How have they responded to you reverting to Islam?

Oh man.

Great question.

So, um, obviously as of right now, I am the only Muslim in my family.

Right?

So once they heard that I was.

Not even had accepted Islam yet, but studying it, just studying it was really,

really, really put them off, you know?

So my father, he hosts Bible study every Saturday.

Every Saturday.

Still does till this day, right?

So I took my shahada, told my dad, I said, dad, I've become Muslim now.

And he just, he pauses, he looks at me.

He's like, okay.

Okay.

Well, um, this week I want you to come over, uh, and we are going

to talk about your, your decision.

Uh, we're gonna talk about the Quran, we're gonna talk about the Bible.

Uh, he's a, he's a man who, who loves to read and he loves to learn.

Just like me, I, I love to learn, right?

Um, so the first thing he does is.

Did you know Prophet Muhammad did this?

Did you know Prophet Muhammad did that?

Are you aware of these things about this religion that you're choosing?

Just nitpicking, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You

know, taking verses out of, out of context, you know, things like that,

you know, and then like, and so like, he wasn't being rude about it, but he was

trying to be a father, you know, saying, Hey, I know this is what you chose.

I looked into it.

Let's talk about and see if you know these things.

Right.

So then when we started talking about it, I had to kind of clear up these

misconceptions that he had, you know, uh, and now since it's been some

years, he's slowly coming around to it.

Right?

He's, he's, he's, um, he's meeting more Muslims, right?

Uh, he here, here in America, 'cause he lived in Abu Dhabi for a while.

Okay.

So he had a lot of.

Exposure to Muslims out there, which he had a great experience with them.

Nothing bad to say, right.

Um, but here in America, um, now he's starting to come around to the idea of it.

He doesn't disagree with a, with a lot of the teachings.

Right.

So, um, my dad specifically, he is one of the Christians who separates.

Jesus peace to be behind him and the Father.

So he's one of the Christians who do not, who does not believe that Jesus is God.

So I tell my dad, I said, dad, you're, you're more Muslim than anything.

So maybe it's not, not quite there yet.

That's that's awesome though.

Has he, uh, has he read your books?

Um, you know what, so I just sent him copies of the books

literally like two days ago.

Okay.

Um, and he told me he was very impressed with, uh, the things that he read in them.

He said, I did a real good job.

Uh, and he's gonna take some time to, um, not only read it,

but like retain the information.

Right.

If you will.

You know, that's

gonna be an awesome conversation to have with that.

Oh, it's gonna

be great.

Yeah.

If he's already making the, um, you know, realizing that Issa peace me upon

him wasn't, you know, isn't actually God, but a prophet, he's I 90% there.

He's, he's right.

He's like, he's right there.

Right.

But he's, he's almost, he's almost 70 years old, so, you know, he's,

he's been Christian for so long.

Or calling himself Christian for.

'cause I, I believe some people are Christian by

practice or Christian by name.

Right, right.

So he has been, I, I believe, it's my opinion that he's

been Christian for so long.

It's just hard to let go of that because that's all he's

known for his entire lifetime.

What do you, um, like I, he, he's not here, so I don't wanna be, you

know, we gotta be respectful of that.

Yeah, yeah.

When.

Christians, I mean, what, what do you feel?

'cause you're a former Christian yourself, right?

So when you, you know, reverted, what were you really giving up though?

You know what, um, hypocrisy.

Okay.

Right.

Okay.

No, that's, that's a fair, that's a, that's, that's a fair answer.

I was giving up hypocrisy.

I was giving up the mental gymnastics.

That you need to go through.

I love that expression to, to, to, to believe a lot of

the things that they believe.

Right?

So one, so a, a, a big thing I noticed about when I was Christian, right, is

that the things that they are teaching in the churches is not what is in the Bible.

They will take a verse out of the Bible and it's normally the

same, like 50 verses, and they will just make something up.

About it.

Right.

You know, so like when you read the Bible, you don't find anywhere where Jesus says,

I'm God to worship me, but instead he says that the Father is greater than I.

That's what you're hearing most of the time.

Right.

Is, is the Father is greater than I. Um, and then, you know,

there's another, there's another verse there where he's saying, um.

Uh, what does he say?

He says, so they may get to know you, the only true God and Jesus

Christ, whom you have sent.

You know, so if you're being sent by God, you can't be God.

Right?

Because God sent you.

You know, that's, that's the only thing that makes sense.

Right.

You know, and that's what I love about Islam is that it's clear, it makes sense.

There's no mental gymnastics, there's not a thousand parables.

You know, it's, it is, this is what it says and this is what it is.

Simple, clear.

Right.

You don't have to twist anything.

I look, I, I, I get it.

Um, okay, so Tyler, the, uh, Tyler Lee episode, we're gonna

talk about Dean over Dunya.

Okay.

And it is, um, you know, both of us were obviously Americans or

obviously, you know, American reverts.

Yeah.

And we, um.

You know, I had a past before Islam and I dealt with a lot

of, you know, worldly things.

Obviously as a recovering alcoholic I had to deal with everything involved

with active alcoholism and addiction and, um, I. You know, we don't, we don't talk

about specific sins or anything in Islam.

Uh, and that's one of the things where we run into a lot of contention with,

um, you know, person, I'll be going to AA meetings and people will sometimes

get very descriptive over things.

And I have to use like a, you know, kind of tuning out a little bit, uh,

because it is, you know, if we do hear from that, we do become part

of it and it's maybe inadvertently, but we still become part of it.

Um, and then it's, it'll lead to other, um.

You know, other things, it's not necessarily like mental

gymnastics, but we have a saying in recovery of, uh, euphoric recall.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, where remember like the real, real good times of like what it was like

to be, you know, under the influence of certain substances and whatnot.

And it's like, oh, well maybe you know, this really, really good memory

and maybe I could go relive that memory and it could open the door to

relapse and all kinds of bad things.

Um.

So it's important to stay grounded, um, but grounded in the dean because

we live in a, you know, we live in a world of total distraction too.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, like one of the biggest ones that a lot of brothers

deal with is Xena, obviously.

'cause it's everywhere.

It's everywhere.

Like literally in your face, everywhere.

You can't even open up an Instagram feed without running into it.

You can't even open up Facebook.

Like, even like conser.

What would we consider like, more a morally conservative social media?

Like Facebook, you start scrolling and you're gonna run into it.

Um, and it's inadvertent.

You know, we gotta, you know, we're required to.

Lower our gaze.

Uh, and it's, it's literally everywhere.

Um, so when you are, you know, living your day-to-day life, uh, what,

how do you stay grounded in that?

How do you stay grounded in your dean?

Um, you know, so this was one thing that I struggled with for a while,

simply because, um, I wasn't around any other Muslims, you know, there wasn't a

Muslim around me to teach me anything.

You know, or to keep me on Dean, you know, or, or to, or to teach me how to

pray, you know, or anything like that.

I had to learn all of this on my own.

Um, and then once I started going to the JI meeting people there, um, and

I really started, you know, just, just being, trying to be laser focused

and the Dean Allah sent me people.

To kind of come be my guide, right?

So, right.

I own an auto repair business, right?

I fixed cars.

That's one of the things that I do for a living.

And once I started really getting into this and like trying to take

it serious, Allah sent me customers who would come and teach me things.

So I, I, I've, I went from no Muslim customers to.

Most, the majority of my customers now are, are, are Muslims.

Right, right.

You know, and so, uh, the first one that I had, he came, he brought me a prayer rug.

Um, and then, um, after that I had, I had another customer came by.

He would, he would slowly teach me Arabic from the Koran.

Um, and then, um, there was another guy who comes and he, he, he would

tell verses to me, uh, we exchanged numbers, you know, he'd come over

sometimes, teach me some things.

Um, so a lot of my customers really, really like keep me on Dean, you know?

Right.

Just, just, you know, and, you know, we, we, we pray five times a day.

That's another, you know, once you.

You, you, you get busy throughout the day.

You're, you're doing things.

Sometimes you're not thinking of it.

You know, that event on your phone goes off.

Right.

You know, it puts you right back in the head space.

Right.

That's one of the things I love, love, love about Islam is like I'll be, no

matter what I'm in, my ADON will go off and it's like unplugged from the dunya.

Unplug into a lot.

Yeah.

Um, and I'll.

I'll do it.

You know, I, I understand we're given a, a window, you know, very generous window,

right.

Of prayer time.

But I still try to get, you know, I still try to get to it pretty, pretty

close to the actual start of it.

'cause that's when we need it.

And it's, um, I, I love how it's a shorter and shorter timeframe between.

All of our prayers.

Yeah.

Like if you spread 'em out throughout the day, you see like the distance

between FIA DU is like longer.

Yeah.

And then you get into a CI that's shorter and then A is shorter, and then it's

like these tiny little, you know, the timeframe gets shorter and shorter.

Yeah.

Uh, because we need to plug in.

Yep.

You know, we do, we need to plug in, which is, you know, fantastic.

Okay.

So you find that like, it's, um, so like a sense of fellowship is really what

keeps you grounded in the dean, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, like I said, the, the other Muslims really, really.

Uh, kept me in tune you, you know, you know, and like I said, you know,

ahu, aam, you know, only Allah knows, but it seems like once I locked

in, he, he just brings me person after person after person, you know?

And then me and you, uh, you know, we met way back when, right?

You know, and then, and then, you know, boom, you.

You pop about the blue, you know, and Right.

I'm here.

We are, man.

You know, it, it's, it just keeps happening like that, man.

It's great.

It's, it's amazing.

Yeah.

Uh, it's, uh, you know, it's something else we have in common

too, is we're both truckers.

Yeah.

And that's one of the things that I struggle, I, I don't wanna necessarily

say struggle with, it's just, it's, uh, you know, I was over the road for a long

time and there's not a lot of fellowship.

I mean, granted, we're, we have a lot of free time, like a lot of time

to listen to, um, mean, I listen to different Islamic sermons on YouTube

and just play a lot of, you know, audio books and podcasts and really

get into a lot of the, uh, you know, knowledge and educational side of it.

But at the cost of not having that.

Not having that fellowship, not having that friendship, like it can make

phone calls and whatnot, but it's not the same as praying in the ma. Mm-hmm.

It's not the same as having that, um, you know, that face-to-face interaction.

Um, so it's difficult.

Um, you know, personally on the road I would have a, um, you know, we have, I.

Modified prayer requirements if we're traveling.

Um, and I try to keep that in.

Um, you know, I try to keep that in perspective, um, because it's, you

know, the, the travel requirements were set, set on something 1200 years ago.

It's a lot different when you're, you know, caravan across, you

know, Arabia with a, you know, with a, you know, with a camel and

Yeah.

You know, walking versus driving a freight liner.

You know, it's a different, a totally different, different thing.

So it's, so I try to keep it with a, you know, I try to keep,

keep a discerning eye with it.

Um, like for example, I don't, um.

During Ramadan, I'll fast normally.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

'cause it's like driving a truck is not that physically difficult.

I'm not a flatbed driver.

I don't like have to get out and do things, you know?

I just drive.

So it's not, it's, it's not like it's that physically, you know,

I'm not that, you know, you know, physically exerting myself.

Yeah.

Um, but at the same time it's, it, it does have time constraints.

'cause you know, if you're an over the road trucker,

uh, that clock runs our life.

Ooh.

You know, the clock runs your life and it's, I. Don't always have the

luxury of being able to pull over or pull off the road and be able to

pray, you know, in the middle of it.

Right.

Um, it's just, and it, it, it sucks that sometimes even just the 10 or 15

minutes that what a prayer would require.

Um, that could mean the difference, you know, between a

delivery time delivery window.

Some of 'em get real, real, real tight, real tight.

Um.

You know, now, um, you know, these days I, I, I work for a local companies,

so I get to be home daily now, and it gives me the, you know, affords

me the opportunity to be able to do other, you know, do other things.

Uh, so I have a lot more leeway now, but when I was over the road,

it was real, real, real tight.

Um, and that's where the, you know, the traveling would come in.

Mm-hmm.

And I would, I could get away with just two ts or different, you know, as, as.

Abridged prayer.

Uh, 'cause sometimes that's necessary.

Yeah.

You know, and sometimes I just like bow my head and say the, you know,

you know, I'm saying my prayers while I'm actually rolling, which isn't,

you know, I like to think that a lot, you know, judges us on our attentions,

that my heart's in the right place.

It's not necessarily unplugging from the dunya unplugging into prayer,

but it's still, you know, I. Try, try to keep my heart in the right place.

Yeah,

absolutely.

With it.

'cause it's, it's hard, you know?

It is, it is.

It is difficult to be able to do that.

Um,

it is, man.

Yeah.

You know, and, and so my trucking experience, I was only ever an an,

an over the road trucker, you know?

So, um, you know, so when, when I, when I was trucking, especially

out in California, uh, I think it's Ontario, California to be specific,

there's a TA out there that has a, uh, like a Christian prayer.

Oh, a little chapel place out there.

Yeah.

Like in the trail.

The one, yeah.

Little Chapel.

Actually.

The TA in a Lodi over on 76, just over by Akron has the same thing.

Yeah.

Right.

Where, uh, 71 and 76 come together.

Mm-hmm.

The ta the TA over there has one.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, they're common.

Yeah.

It's, it's common,

you know?

Yeah.

I, I wish we had that, those kind of things for, for Muslims,

it would make it a lot easier.

Right.

Oh, they'll talk to you, those guys in there, they're pretty, you know,

pretty bored most of the time.

Yeah.

Like, I'll go, I, I was at the one in, um.

Uh, when I was down in one, I, I wanna say Tyler, Texas.

Mm.

And, uh, there's just some random, you know, minister, I guess

preacher, whatever they called him.

Pastor.

Is that it?

Pastor?

Yeah.

Yeah, pastor was in there, but I just told, I went and started

BSing with him a little bit.

Yeah.

Um, and he's like, he's like, well, can I pray over you?

I'm like, you know, go for it, man.

Yeah.

Whatever.

Make his day.

I'm like, okay.

Um, but it's, uh, you know, and I think it's, it's awesome that.

There, you, you know, different truckers and whatnot have the

ability to be able to plug in Yeah.

You know, to whatever their faith is.

Yeah.

Um, you see, you hear it sometimes on the cb, like people will

be reading scripture and whatnot.

Yeah.

Do different, you know, do different things on the cb, which is kind

of, you know, it's kind of cool to be able to maintain that.

Yeah.

Um, you gotta watch out on the CB though, man.

That's a lot of people who do, has a lot of.

Um, very toxic beliefs out there.

Oh dude, it's, yeah.

My favorite is like stuck in traffic somewhere.

You just turn 'em on 'cause you get it in both directions.

It's fantastic.

It's, uh, I mean it's, it's necessary for a safety thing, but for the most

part, I keep mine shut off for sure.

It's not, I, I. I don't really, it's, you're right, it is toxic.

Yeah.

But it's not anything.

I'd rather listen to recitation, you know, videos and listen to these guys.

Uh, but it does save li I mean, the radio would save, would save lives.

Oh it does, for sure.

It definitely, uh, a, uh, safety issue.

Um, I. I have run into quite a few other Muslims.

Um, on the road I've done most, most of my career has been refurb.

So it's, um, one of the aspects of that is you go somewhere, grocery DC

or whatever, and it's like four or five hours to get unloaded, which I, you know,

actually, I don't mind that I. I, I don't, 'cause it gives me time to chill out.

Like, 'cause I've worked for Drive Van companies too, and it's like with Drive

Van, the only way these people will make money, everything's drop and hook.

So, you know, you drive six hours in one direction, you drop and hook,

you're outta the truck for five, 10 minutes, get the new trailer and

you're going in the other direction.

You run out your 11 hours.

Yeah.

And then you take exactly 10 and then you're up and running again.

There's no downtime, none.

At least with, you know, at least with reefer, you get a chance to

chill out, like you're not rolling.

I mean, it might take you four hours to get unloaded,

but I'm chilling in the bunk.

I'm out walking around talking to people.

Right.

Reading, you know, doing all these other activities, uh, which kind

of enriches your life on the road.

Yeah.

It's just really, really easy to get burned out.

Uh, but I've run into quite a few, uh, you know, Muslims, other Muslim truckers,

and we'll talk, you know, right away.

We'll, we'll talk, I'll see I you go into the, the, um, bathroom at loves and

you'll see 'em making oo in the sink and I'll go over and start a conversation.

Um, 'cause it's important, you know, we get to maintain that sense of, um, you

know, fellowship even over the room.

Yeah.

Even if you're just having a real quick two minute conversation

with someone, it makes my day.

It might make his day.

Uh, and it's a, it's a beautiful thing 'cause we're all part of the

same, you know, we're all part of the same, part of the same rah.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah,

exactly.

Um, so when, you know, sorry, we're getting, we're getting a little bit

off topic here, talking about trucking man, which is really, you know, it's

one of, it's necessary though, right?

I mean, it's the thing, it's like that's it's thing about trucking is there's

nothing anyone has in this country.

That a truck didn't have something to do with Exactly.

You know, that a truck didn't.

It's, it's just such a integral backbone part of just commerce.

It is, it is.

You know, we make the world go around pretty much, man.

Well, it, it's, um, it's one, one of the reasons

I took the job where I do now.

'cause I work for a produce company and it's all very, very halel.

Uh, you, you know, shipments and whatnot.

Oh, my.

'cause there's, I, 'cause there's some things who you can run into that.

Like, if you're, let's say you're over the road and they give you a load.

You gotta go to the, uh, you know, Anheuser-Busch and you're gonna pick

up a truck full of beer and take it up to, you know, grand Rapids, Michigan

or whatever, and it's like, you are, you know, that's a hot, it's, yeah.

We're not, we're supposed to avoid

that.

Right.

Um, I drove for a company in, um, here in Ohio that did a lot

of work with a, uh, slaughterhouse.

Another one up in Michigan.

Oh.

But it was a lot of pork and it would be, I would take it, there's a hot dog

factory down in, uh, Massillon, and I would take it down there and it would

still see really not, it, it, it just.

Made me feel dirty.

Yeah.

And that kind of, well, that's one of the things that really, um, contributed

to me to leaving that company.

'cause it's just, I can't, it, it, it is Haram and it's like, I don't want

to take the risk of like, you know, is, is this what I'm hauling, Hal?

Well, is it Haram?

What's, you know, I don't wanna put, you know, I understand

that Allah is most merciful.

Yeah.

At the same time, I don't want to test it.

You know, I have a hard enough time just 'cause I know how I get.

Like I will test things.

I'm the guy who I'll put my, try to see how close I can get my hand to the burner

on the stove before I, you know, it's like, I'll push, I'll push boundaries

and some boundaries shouldn't be pushed.

Um, so it's important to be able to, you know, make, make that discernment

over something halal or is it hot on.

Of

course,

we were talking before the show, a little bit about that with,

uh, discernment on social media and like we're, you know, scrolling and

it'll come up with like, you know, your risk of falling into Xena Right.

Or falling into other, you know, other things that could

just be serenity threatening.

You know, like I, depending on what sites or what I'm looking at, I'll

look at different news, you know, different news things that'll,

you know, boil my blood, you know?

Right.

Just like really, really set off.

And it's important to, uh, realize that that's all part of the plan.

Yeah.

You know, that's really the thing is it's all part of the plan.

Like everything that happens is all part of Allah's plan and

it's all a test man.

Right, right.

Well, that's, that's exactly it.

Like how are we gonna react to it?

Right.

Are we gonna say, okay, well this is wrong.

Is this, you know, is this really my place?

Or do we, um.

In or do we do something about it?

Um, in recovery, uh, in every meeting we do what's called the Serenity Prayer.

Mm-hmm.

You know, God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.

Courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference

and that wisdom, that's discernment.

Mm-hmm.

And it's something that, you know, I pray for a lot, um, just because I know

me, you know, and I need that wisdom because left to my own devices, it's.

You know, I do stupid stuff all the time.

Yeah.

You know, it's another, it's another thing I enjoy about the, the Dean of

Islam is that really, uh, that level of structure is, um, you know, we do have

a, you know, there is a right and wrong.

Yeah.

And the way that we are, uh, there, there's not a whole lot of gray areas,

not a whole lot of stuff that's left to, you know, left out to interpretation.

I know with some things we say, you know, Allah knows best.

Right.

Uh, but for the major things, there's no gray area.

You have right and wrong.

Right.

Clearly, clearly, clearly.

Right.

And that's what I like about it.

Absolutely.

So what are the, um, so what, what, what else was I, I was gonna ask

you, uh, more about your family.

Okay.

So you mentioned your father.

How did some of your other family, like, I dunno, uh, siblings, extended

family, cousins, whatnot, how do they view your approach in Islam?

You know what, um, so I didn't get a whole lot of feedback

from most of my other family.

Um, probably mainly because I don't see them too much, but to my surprise.

Um, so, you know, lemme start this off by saying there's

always somebody watching you.

Even if you don't think that people are paying attention, somebody is watching

the things that you do, you will influence somebody directly or indirectly.

In your life.

Right.

So I have a cousin who zero interest in religion as a whole, right?

Um, he was raised Christian, went to Catholic school.

Um, and that's really all he knew.

Um.

And through social media, he's seen that I accepted the Islam, he's seen the

videos, I post, he sees me, um, you know, reciting Koran and doing things like that.

And he ca this was probably two months ago, uh, came up to me

and started asking me questions.

And I'm like, this is, this is, this is, you know.

Really odd coming from you of all people.

You know, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's going on?

You know, are, are you going through something?

Um, you know, what's, what's, what's, what's going on?

Um, he's like, he's like, nah, man, I just, you know, I, I, I seen

you were doing your thing with it.

Um, you know, and I've been kind of going through some things.

I wanna get closer to God, and I've been paying attention to the

things that you've been saying, and I don't disagree with any of it.

And I say, you know, martial, that's a, that's a, that's

a beautiful thing, you know?

Right.

So then I started really, you know, I'll send him, you know, maybe a

TikTok video here, maybe a YouTube video here now, you know, or maybe

I'll take a picture of a person in the court and, and I'll send it to him.

Um, you know, and he's been.

Doing v vicar every, every, every so often.

You know, I'll hear him say, you know, I'll, I'll hear him say,

I'll hear him say these things.

And I don't know that he's Muslim yet, but he's, he's, he's, he's there.

He's there.

Right.

You know, you know, he's, he's there in belief.

He's there in fa he just needs to do a shahadah.

Right.

But, you know, Islam is, is intention based, you know, ahu,

aam, only Allah knows, you know.

Right.

He, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's probably Muslim right now already.

It.

You know, you could, what was the saying?

You could lead a horse to water, but you can't make 'em drink.

Right.

And that's the thing I love about taking the shahadah is it's no

one can take it for you, right?

No one can dedicate your heart to Allah.

Only you can dedicate your heart to Allah.

Alright.

Um, I wanna get into the, um, you know, as you know, the theme is Dean over Dunya.

Yeah.

And, um, I wanna get into the idea of the inner Jihad.

You know, we talk about in Islam, and this is something else that's

thrown around by the media, is that concept of jihad and Holy War.

And the real one isn't necessarily against, uh, you know, an external

war against infidels or, you know, the ka or non-believers,

or however you wanna put it.

Mm-hmm.

Um, the real one that we struggle with is that energy hot, what we have

to do, um, to overcome our own ns.

Yeah.

Um, you know, in, in AA and in recovery we talk about how drinking

and, you know, whether it's, you know, substance abuse or drinking or gambling

or whatever it is, is a symptom.

And in our literature we say selfishness and self-centeredness

is the core of the disease.

Yeah.

Um, and this is something that I don't think necessarily

only applies to alcoholics.

It really applies to all of humanity.

Yeah.

I mean, the prophet peace be upon him, used to pray.

You know, a lot of police saved me for myself.

And it's, you know, I take heart to that 'cause I know that I am,

you know, left to my own devices, I'm gonna get in my own way.

Right?

And it's, it, it doesn't end well when I live my life, uh, selfishly,

or I'm doing anything, you know, you, you know, that's gonna benefit myself.

I. It never ends well.

So I have to pause in a moment and I have to say, okay, is this, you know, is this

serving myself or is this serving a lot?

Right?

Um, and we talk, you know, we talk about that the jihad enoughs the,

uh, the inner, the inner struggle.

Um, so this is something I wanted to ask you about Tyler.

Like, how do you deal with this on a daily basis?

So, you know, uh, it's funny that, that you bring up, uh, energy

had, because, uh, in my book.

I'm gonna quote just a mini quote from my book by, by all means.

Um, uh, it says that the real battlefield isn't out there, it's inside you, right?

So Jihad is also some, also a misconception about Islam.

You know, people hear jihad, they all, they automatically go to go to war.

Ah, you know, they're gonna come get us, you know, type stuff, you know?

Right.

But, you know, the, the, the greatest you had is.

Actually the struggle against your own ego, if you will.

Right.

You know what I mean?

Um, you know, fighting laziness, uh, pride, uh, selflessness, uh, anger,

you know, uh, it's, it's, it's jihad is, is self purification, not, not a

holy war against others, if you will.

You know what I mean?

Um, prophet Muhammad peaced upon him called, uh, called Jihad.

Um, enoughs, you know, enoughs is your, is your greatest jihad.

Right.

You know, um, and it's a daily struggle that I think we all deal with.

You know, regardless of what your struggle is, if you're struggling and

you're abstaining from these things, you know that that is your jihad,

that is your fight, that is your test.

Right.

You know, because you're, you're, you're fighting those urges and it's, and it's,

it's a good thing if you, you know.

Nobody's perfect.

Sometimes you're gonna falter just, you know, rep, repent, you

know, stop it, Allah, you know, and you will be forgiven, you know,

in Shaah brother.

The, um, I, I, I think, I love that, that the idea is to overcome the ego.

I. In aa, we talk about ego as a, uh, it's an acronym since

for easing God out, ah, EGO.

And it's really, uh, and it's important to remember that.

'cause anytime I'm making a self-based decision, I am not,

you know, I'm easing God out.

Yeah.

And in, uh, you know, in, in Islam we talk about when.

You know, performing sins or doing any of that, you're literally in a state

of disbelief, they call it kario.

You're literally in a state of, you know, you're a nonbeliever when you're

engaging in these different things.

And that's such an important distinction because it really is that easy for

your attention to turn away from a law and turn towards your selfish desires.

Yeah.

So it's such a, and you're right, it is the greatest battle because it

is really, you know, in recovery we talk about, um, you know, relapse.

Um, and I, I've relapsed several times.

I, first, I went to my first AA meeting in, uh, the year 2000.

Um.

And it's here we are in 2025.

Okay.

I've been sober for five years, so do the math.

Right.

You know, I've been, you know, I've been in and out, uh, quite a few times

and it is, you know, as someone who's relapsed back into substance abuse, um,

you know, I can recognize the signs.

And one of the things we deal with in the dean is, is it's

easy to relapse into dunya.

You know, every one of us has a certain sin, like something persistent

that we might struggle with, and whether it's like smoking cigarettes

or gambling or different things and it's so easy and we live in this

society where it's like in your face.

Yeah.

Um, you know, intoxicants and gambling are hot on.

Meanwhile, uh, I I, if you go to, um, let's say you just go to Circle

K, you're gonna get a Sprite on your way home from work, and you're

standing there in line and you've got the beer cooler right over there.

Yeah.

With all the tall boys.

And you pull up and they got the, uh, they got the case up front with all

the little scratch offs, you know, and it's really, and all the really

colorful, it's meant to like, draw your attention and that's gambling.

Um, and we ha we we're just surrounded by all these vices and all these sins that

are literally in our face all the time.

Yeah.

And, um, so, so the struggle's very real, you know?

Yeah.

And it's very easy to forget yourself in that moment.

Um, you know, unless we are, you know, unless we do have that sense of spiritual,

that sense of spiritual foundation, you know, are we praying five times a day?

Are we doing what we need to do right.

In order to be good Muslims?

Or like, you know, from my per uh, from my perspective, are we doing

what we need to do, be to be, you know, to follow through on recovery?

Right.

You know, speaking of addiction, so, um.

You don't, so I, I, I, I went through a situation.

Um, so I, I, I, I, I have never had to deal with substance abuse, so I don't try

to, uh, I guess assume I know what that's like, but I will say that, um, so a couple

years ago I was, I was at the JI, right?

Um, left in an ambulance.

Right when went, they're fine.

Left in an ambulance.

Um, my sugar went crazy.

Blood sugar went crazy.

Ended up in the hospital, was there for like a week till we got it down.

And it turns out that I needed to stay away from sugar.

Right.

Let me tell you, sugar is addicting, right?

No, it's absolutely trying to.

So, you know, I was, I mean, I, I'm, I'm a, I'm, I'm, I'm the type of guy

I was, you know, I, I could drink.

Six, seven cans of lemonade a day.

Easy, you know, easy all day, all night, just pounding them.

You don't get like the throat

thing from lemonade like that phlegm.

Oh man, I didn't get none of that, man, man.

I mean, lemonade, juice, uh, pop chips, you know.

So I went from that being a daily practice to no bread.

Oh no, no

sugar.

Uh, and like as, as little carbs as possible.

And let me tell you, relapsing back to sugar and, and, and bread and

stuff like that is so trying to, trying to abstain from, it's hard.

I, it is, it is not easy.

And every time I would try to stop, I, I, I'd stop for a couple days

and then I'm back at it and I would feel guilty every single time.

I would, I would go back and eat sugar.

You know, it was, it was, it was such a hard thing to deal with.

So, you know, I, um, like I said, I, I don't, I don't wanna say that I know

what substance abuse is like, but I gotta give credit to people who do abstain from

that stuff, because, like I said, just, just being away from sugar was just.

Uh, mentally, physically, you know, it, it was just hard.

Man.

It, it sounds like you're in a similar situation.

Like for us in recovery, it's a, um, it's literally life or death.

Okay.

Like if I go back out and I, you know, drink again, I

don't know how it's gonna end.

I've been in, uh, situations where every single time I've hit a rock bottom has

been like, uh, subsequently lower and lower bottoms before I come back to, um.

It'll come back in recovery.

And it is, you know, we talk about an active addiction,

how it ends in three ways.

Okay.

Either jails, institutions, or death.

Right.

And it is literally life or death.

'cause this is a, it is a disease that can kill you.

But it sounds like you're in a similar situation.

Like if you go out and your blood sugar spikes again, diabetes, I mean, you,

uh, how blessed were you that that happened in the Majid instead of like

if you were home alone and you fell out?

No one, I mean, no one might, no one might not even found you for

like six or seven hours, man.

I mean, you could, it can kill you.

Yes.

Yes.

It's

real.

So it is, uh, it doesn't necessarily, you didn't necessarily

have to develop an addiction.

Um, sweets and whatnot are very addictive.

And it is, you know, it's marketed in that way.

Uh, but it is, you're in a similar situation where if

you do that, it can kill you.

It

can kill me.

Exactly.

So it's not, um, you know, it doesn't necessarily

have to be like an addiction.

Addiction, but at the same time, the consequences are very, very real.

Very real.

It's, um, you know, how.

Wow.

I'm glad you're okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, man.

You know, I, I learned, you know, especially with diabetes, man, it's,

the first step is insulin, right?

And then the, the step after that is amputation losing the limb.

Yeah.

Start cutting pieces off, right?

Yeah, yeah.

After, that's death, man.

Dude, that's, that is no joke.

So you on insulin now, do you have to take it every day or,

you know what?

So they put me on four, like four shots of insulin a day.

Oh no.

Okay.

Um, but you know.

I haven't had to take insulin in a few months now.

Good for you.

You

know, so I've, I've been, I've been, I've been praying, praying my

butt off, man, praying my butt off to, to just make me regular again.

Right?

Because doing shots suck, right?

It doesn't feel good.

It, it, it makes me feel bad about myself, you know?

Um, but I changed my diet a lot.

Uh, I went, I went mostly natural.

Apples, oranges, grapes, things like that.

Hollowell diet, man, right?

Yeah.

Diet.

Absolutely.

And, um, that, that, that helps.

It helped a lot, man.

So the doctors are like, wow, you know, what are you doing that.

Your your, your numbers are looking so good and you don't have to do insulin

because when I left they said, oh no.

Once you have diabetes, you have to be on insulin.

The rest of your life there, there's nothing you can do about it.

And I just wasn't gonna accept that.

Absolutely.

Well, they're trying to sell you insulin.

I mean, it's one of those things like, that's a whole other, we could do a whole

episode on the medical, the whole, it's an industry and they're very healthcare

system in Americas Well,

that's one of those things, like I have a hard time.

I mean, doctors are doctors, but it's like they don't.

They don't really have a financial incentive to cure you 'cause they only

get paid if you're sick or injured.

Right.

So I'm kind of, you know, I take it with a grain of salt, um, what they,

uh, you know, how they present stuff.

Okay.

Um, so I wanted to ask you, now, I know one of, one of your side gigs is, uh.

Uh, you, you do a ride share.

Yeah.

Lift.

Yeah.

And we had, um, you know, we talked about this, how you have a sign up in your,

you know, in your vehicle, uh, inviting your passengers to be able to talk

about Islam and talk, and it gives you an opportunity to talk about the Dean.

Um, based off of that, let me ask you, what is your, like, number

one misconception about Islam that you love clearing up, that

you like, that you actually enjoy clearing up for these people?

That's a good question.

You know, so I, I, I don't have one.

There's a lot, right?

So, um.

Surprisingly, the most common question I get about Islam and, and this and

this, this, this blows my mind, the most common question I get is, do you

guys believe in, in God that, that, that's, that's the number one question

I get is, do you guys believe in God?

Right?

And then automatically the second, uh, the second most asked question I get.

After.

Do you believe in God?

Is, do you guys believe in Jesus?

Those are the two.

I'm, I'm talking 90% of the people who get in that car, who are not already Muslim.

Ask me those two questions off rip immediately.

Okay.

As soon as they see that sign, you know?

And, and, um, so yes, we believe in God.

Uh, yes, we believe in Jesus.

We love Jesus too.

Peace be upon him.

Peace upon them, you know.

Um, and I had a lady come in, come in.

She was asking me tons of questions, right?

It was because her daughter had met a Muslim man and she didn't

know how to react to it, right?

So when she saw my sign saying, Hey, I'm Muslim, asked me questions, um, it it,

it fired her brain up and she just boom, boom, boom, hit me with tons of questions.

By the end of the ride, because I picked her up, uh, somewhere in

Cleveland, took her to the airport.

30 minute drive, 30 minutes of just nonstop questions.

Um, by the end of the ride, she said she thanked me because she had, she said that

she had heard so many bad things about Islam, and I was able to answer all of

her questions, make it make sense, and she was no longer fearing for her daughter.

I gave her a copy of the Karen when she got out the car.

Uh, do you keep a stock of them?

Uh, yeah.

Yeah, I keep Awesome.

I keep a bunch of 'em in my car.

Nice.

Okay.

I,

you know, so I, I, I've, I've, so far I've handed out.

50. Oh, 50 law.

That's amazing.

Okay, well let me, um, let's, let's flip it.

So what happens when you pick up a Muslim passenger and they see that sign?

Lumbo come, brother.

Yeah, that's the first, that's the first thing that happens.

And a listen, that's the best feeling ever, man.

It feels great to know.

I have a brother, a sister in the car.

Right.

And, you know, we immediately start going, going into, you know.

How we came into it.

'cause a lot of 'em are reverts,

right?

Oh yeah.

I, I never knew there were so many reverts around here because there are people.

Who don't quote unquote look like they would be Muslim.

Right.

All colors.

All sizes.

All shades.

It's, it's such a beautiful thing, man.

Yeah.

Allah chooses who he will.

Oh, I chooses.

Choose who you will.

Yes.

It's, you know, that's absolutely amazing.

That's one of the things I love.

It's like having conversation with a brother or a sister because it

immediately, we have that connection, but there's always something to talk about.

Yeah.

Always something.

It's really, really good to get into it.

Um.

I, I love it.

Okay, so, um, one of the things we do on the show here is we ask, uh,

you ask for book recommendations.

Um, obviously I'm gonna put your books in the show note, uh, show notes.

But Tyler, I would like a, um, if you wanna give a book

recommendation to the audience, not.

That not, not the two books that you wrote though, right?

So something else that might, that you might have, uh, that's really enriched

your dean or enriched your life.

Uh, what have you been reading that's really, really touched you lately?

Uh, so you already know the first book I'm gonna

recommend is the Cordain itself?

Yes.

Well, right.

Um, and, and I would, I would say specifically for my, if your first

language is, is English, I would say specifically pick up the clear Quran,

because that is going to be probably your best translation if you're a.

English speaker

or coming from a Christian background too.

Yeah, I read.

It does.

It does.

I don't even think they use the word aah in that they use God.

It depends on which, which one you pick up.

Okay.

They have one that says Allah and they have one that says God.

Right.

So the one that says, God, I typically tell Christians to pick up that one.

Right?

Because a lot of Christians get put off by the term Allah.

As soon as they hear the word of law, a lot of 'em get turned off.

Oh, they think it's a separate entity.

Right, right.

So if it just

says God, they're more accept, they're more open to, to accepting

that and wanting to hear more.

As far as other books, um, uh, I don't remember who wrote this one, but

there's one called, um, the Teachings of Islam, and that was like the first.

Book about Islam that I picked up and I still read it till today.

It's a great book.

Um, okay.

I'm gonna have to find out who wrote it and you know, I'll send you all that.

We got it.

We'll, I'll, I'll, I'll find it, get it in the show notes.

So let me, yeah, for sure.

So touching on that, um, you had mentioned when you were coming from

a Christian background into Islam, uh, you were doing some research and

other belief systems and other things.

Was that the book that really brought you to the Dean?

Um, you know what, so, um, me personally, you know.

A DHD like crazy man.

I'm not a very good reader.

I'm a better listener.

Right, right.

So, um, so there, there's a, a lot of podcasts, um, a lot of YouTube.

Right.

Uh, a lot of TikTok, a a lot of just videos because that's

just, I'm a visual learner.

Right.

You know, so I, I gotta see it.

I, I gotta hear it.

Um, as far as just sitting down and reading.

Um, I get, I get distracted, man.

That's, I'm just being honest, man.

Yeah, we, we live in a world of distraction.

I feel you, you know, but, but that book I did sit down and read and, um,

that was the main actual physical book.

That really helped me understand, you know, uh, the, the, the, uh, the core

belief about Islam and then a lot of the other nuanced stuff, you know, in the, in

the five pillars and all that kinda stuff.

Right?

Absolutely.

Well, yeah, the five pillars, articles of faith and things, you know, as

we evolve in the Dean, um, I think that's something that really, uh,

especially as reverts, we are.

Uh, people that are born Muslim tend to hold us to, uh, I, I don't

wanna say impossible standards, but very, very, you know, they expect

us right away to fall into Yeah.

You know, and it's the, uh, you know, the faith itself was revealed over over time.

It wasn't just all or none.

23 years I think it was to be exact.

Yeah, absolutely.

So we are, um, you know, so we have to, we kinda have to take it easy

within, uh, you know, within reason.

You know, it's just, uh, if I could be a little bit, you know, better

Muslim today, a little bit better today than I was yesterday, and

we're kind of following that path of, you know, spiritual progress.

Um, one thing I did wanna mention to the listeners is if you do not have

a copy of the Koran and you would like one, the show website is sober

seeker path.com and on there, if you go to the Koran section, there's three

separate links so you can find one.

One of them is for United States.

Dates listeners, if you click it, I'll put in your address.

They will send you a physical copy of the Koran.

Uh, we have a second one for UK residents and international residents.

Same thing.

Just fill out your, your information and they'll send you one.

And the third one is if you want a digital copy, if you don't wanna wait that

long to get one in snail mail, uh, you can go ahead and just follow the link.

There's recitation on there, there's several different translations.

And if you wanna get into the Koran right away, you know, the resource is available.

It's not, um, you know, it's, it's not that hard to find.

Okay.

Um, so we're just about at the end, end of the show, brother Tyler.

Uh, do you wanna take us out with a DUIs?

Uh, you know what, um, you know what I, I, there there is, there is one

thing I forgot that I did wanna bring up.

Oh, by all means.

You know, so, um, you had asked me

what was one of the misconceptions that I get excited, right, right.

We're talking about, right?

Oh yeah, absolutely.

So, um.

Education, right?

So I hear people say things like, oh, you know, well, what

has Islam brought to the world?

Or whatnot, you know, you know, what, what positive things ha have, have Muslims in,

in, in, in Islam brought to the world?

And so, um, I get this question a lot and there's, there's,

there's two things I wanna say.

Um, one thing, one big thing that.

Islam brought to the world is a school, a university.

Right.

So the oldest university in the world, um, is in Morocco and

was founded by a Muslim woman.

Right.

Yeah.

You know what I'm saying?

Right.

Absolutely.

That is a, you know,

that's a, that's a beautiful thing, man.

It's an uncomfortable truth for a lot of people.

Right.

No, absolutely.

You know, so, you know, 'cause you know, you'll, you'll hear

things like, Hey, you know, well.

People bring up Afghanistan a lot, you know?

Oh, well, women can't have education.

You, you know, that's not true.

You know, the, the, that, that, that university is

still in operation till today.

Right.

You know, um, and it says in the Quran that, um, seeking knowledge

is an obligation for men and women.

Right.

You know, not just men.

Right.

You know, so, uh, I, I think, I think that's a beautiful thing.

Um, and that is one of the, one of my favorite ones to, to address.

Um, as far as now closing out here, you know, um, I just want to ask

a lot to grant us all ease, uh, and make our journeys fruitful.

You know, and I hope all the people who don't have much information about

Islam, which is easy to do in the United States, um, I hope somebody crosses your

path or this podcast crosses your path and you know, you get to learn a lot.

Martial.

All right.

Thank you brother Tyler.

Alright, that's gonna be a wrap for today, everyone.

Uh, I want to thank everyone for listening, and please, if you're

struggling, by all means, pick up the phone before you pick up the bottle, okay?

Just make that phone call.

Don't, you know, make a good decision.

Call someone.

Don't, you don't have to pick up and news.

I'd like to thank everyone for tuning into another episode of Path of

the Sober Seeker and Insha Allah.

We will catch you all next week for another episode.

Thank you everyone.

Bye-bye.