Culture in business is simply how things are done—sometimes healthy, sometimes toxic.

How do you know the difference, and what can you do if you’re in the middle of it?

Today I’m joined by Jen Brooks, founder of Anchored and Assured and a former nurse and now a speaker promoting living life and work through teaching the Bible.

She’s experienced toxic workplaces firsthand and now helps people anchor their identity in God’s Word.

Jen shares how to recognize a toxic culture, what leaders can do to change it, and how to thrive when God has you in a tough place.

We talk about:

• The difference between a bad culture and a toxic one
• Why leaders must look at themselves first if they want change
• The damage of tolerating “high performers” who hurt people
• How remembering your identity in Christ changes your outlook
• A simple story of obedience that opened the door for ministry

Redeem Your Business Today by the Following:

How can we honor God in our business?

By putting Him first in our decisions and remembering that all of our time is His.

One Challenge from Today:

Pray and ask the Lord to show you one step of obedience you can take in your workplace—then follow through.

More About Jen Brooks:

Website: https://anchoredandassured.com/ 

Freebies: FREE Printable Bible Study Lessons for Small Groups - Anchored and Assured 

YouTube: Jen Brooks - YouTube 

Book as a Speaker: Jen Brooks - Canfield Christian Speaker 

More About David Schmidt

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Website: redeemingbusinesstoday.com

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So culture in business is essentially how business is conducted. Whether it's honesty, integrity, transparency, humility, perfect outward appearance, shifting responsibility to others, ownership when it's convenient, following the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law, and it's okay to wrong others. That's a whole big wide spectrum of culture in today's world. Where are you? Do you have a great culture, a toxic culture? How do you work in a toxic culture when that's full of tension and just not things that are nice?

Today I brought on Jen Brooks from Anchored and Assured to talk about toxic culture and what it is and how to survive, how to thrive in less than ideal culture. Jen, welcome to our podcast. ⁓

Thank you so much, David.

It's an honor to be here today.

Yeah, and one question I like to ask all my guests is what is one way that you have found to honor God in your business?

I think that the primary way for me is to put him first and to be very intentional to not move forward exempt from hearing from him first.

Okay, very good, I like it. So give us a little background of where you are today, basically how you arrived at the work you're doing today and what you do and how do you help other people thrive in different work cultures.

So my formal education includes my bachelor's degree in nursing. have been a pediatric nurse for the bulk of my career, which is about 28 years now. Gosh, that makes me feel so old to say that. So I have worked in many different capacities as a staff nurse, and currently I am a nursing supervisor in a pediatric hospital. So in that type of workspace, I've worked in several different types of environments, and the Lord has also called me to equip others to

anchor who they are in God's Word. So I have been teaching His Word for 24 years now and I have published a few books and I have founded Anchored and Assured, a ministry that's dedicated to equip others to break free from insecurity and ground who they are in God's truth.

Very good, yeah. That's good, because you're right. Grounding yourself in what God says about who you are and what you have is good, it's critical, because if not, you're going to shift depending on how I talk about you. I mean, we say that you don't affect me, your words don't affect me, but it does. We have all these people talking negative about us, even though we're solid, it still affects you. And that's, yeah.

I love the way you

worded that because other people can shape our thoughts. And if we allow them to take root, then we can be headed to believe a lie, which then becomes a strong hold and it affects how we're thinking about ourselves.

Absolutely, very good. So how would you define a toxic work culture? Some people may not even know that they're in one. They might say it's a bad one, but what's the difference between a bad one and a toxic one? Or is there?

I think you're right

in saying that there is a distinction there. And I think a toxic work environment can be defined as an environment where there's a sense of oppression happening. Like you just feel like there is just negativity everywhere. Kind of like you can cut the tension with a knife sort of thing. It might be a cutthroat environment where people are just doing things that just aren't right. It could be one where there's bullying.

I think that's something that is rampant in the workplace and it's not always discussed. And there can be a pecking order and there can be people who bully other people into submission or intimidate them from saying something to someone who can help them. So I think there's a workplace civilry or bullying that happens. I also think that sometimes there is in that pecking order, a deliberate crushing that occurs sometimes to silence people or oppositions because I think

We sometimes look at other people with a competitive edge and we think when we see something in someone else that may actually be a strength, we want to push them down in an attempt to elevate ourself. So I think those are some key characteristics.

I've been in a lot of different workplaces, but I guess I've never been in one that bad because I've been in ones that were very full of tension. Basically, the bad ones are very just disorganized, 100 % disorganized and just chaos all over the place it seems like. But intentionally putting you down, that's harsh. That's stiff. So what do you do if you... Because I mean, we have two different things here. We have, if you are working in one...

It is hard,

But like if I am the boss of a company and I'm finding out that my culture has unintentionally become toxic, what do I do to start shifting that boat back to a good culture?

Well, I think if you're a leader in that type of environment and that comes to your awareness, you have to first be willing to take a look at yourself. I think as the leader, you've got the responsibility to look and say, okay, what am I doing? If anything, to contribute to this environment, is there something I'm doing or not doing that I need to be doing to kind of bring this culture back to a healthy place? Are there things that I've turned my eye to?

kind of like turn and not want to address something? Do I see something happening, but I know if I address it, it's going to cause issues for me or make things more difficult. Sometimes I think we need to look at, okay, ⁓ we know who the bullies are, but we let them get away with things. I think there's a lot of issues that we have to be willing to take that responsibility and say, I have to be the one to steer this boat. Am I enabling a negative ⁓

Bullying, am I allowing that to happen? Or the talk that's happening, the chatter, the gossip, all of those things that can contribute to that.

think the tension sometimes is when you have a good performer who's bad with people. I mean, they produce, whether it's a sales or a machining or whatever, they produce great product and a lot of good stuff. But when it comes to working with other people, they don't. They don't work with other people. They are, in biblical terms, very proud and haughty, and they look down upon everybody else, and that does not help the teamwork work together well.

Yes, you're right. And I think that the leader as a leader too, you have to take a look at and see, there any prideful tendencies that I'm displaying? Do I need to maybe check myself with in humility or am I modeling being a servant leader? Am I modeling speaking words of encouragement? Am I modeling being kind to other people? think that you have that people will look to you to set.

the barometer and the tone of your environment. And if you are or aren't doing those things, it speaks volumes. Or if you see or you witness something happen that's out of line, are you calling them out on it or just kind of letting it shuffle that under the rug?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, Peter Drucker, I'm not sure if you're familiar with him. He was a ⁓ big time management, basically overall management leadership and he's passed away now. But he said, gets measured gets managed. And I know sometimes the people, they want you to have quality work, but they're measuring you on how much you get out. And those two don't always correlate. And so,

We get a lot out, but the quality wasn't there because they're getting measured on rate. So they are, as a leader, very definitely if you want quality, you gotta somehow reward quality in your work. ⁓ You mentioned about finding your identity not in this world, not in your business, but in the Bible. Can you explain further on that?

That's right.

absolutely, I'd love to. In the workplace, since that's what we're talking about, I think we need to be mindful that when we are going to work, you know, at my workplace, we have a time clock and we clock in and we clock out. And when you say, are you on the clock? There's a very, there's a definite understanding when I'm off the clock, I conduct myself in a different way than when I'm on the clock.

You even talk different maybe or dress different or you might make some personal phone calls that you wouldn't when you're on the clock. Your conduct changes. But as God's people, we are his ambassadors and he doesn't have a time clock. It's all God's time. So we can't compartmentalize, okay, this is my time that I work for God and this is my time where I do my own thing. It's all his time. So to have that mentality when we go into the workplace that we are on mission, that we are there

We are placed there with intention and for a purpose. And I know myself, I have had an experience of being in a very toxic work environment. And I can remember it was actually reached a very unhealthy place for me. And I can remember just praying and asking the Lord, would you please move me from this place? I need to get out of here. But I knew that I was placed there for a reason. And he gave me these little divine assignments that he, I knew that I was there.

to reach out to specific people, to do different things. So I think that we are wise to remember we're there on mission and we have things to do. And if our sovereign God has placed us for such a time as this in that place, there's a reason why.

That's good. I like that attitude of here on mission. Apparently I'm a little bit more selfish than that because there's been times where I've had some conflict with person. I remember being in a trailer factory and the guy who was running the crib, he was just really cranky and it's usually hard to deal with. And I'm just like, my prayer a lot of times is, God, can you change them, change me or change us both? Because something's not working right here. And praying for him for a while, it's like, oh, so one day he's gone. He left, he went, got a different job somewhere.

And I'm like, huh, that's interesting. And that's happened two or three times in my career where I pray about this person because things are just not going well. Then a few months later, they're just gone. I'm like, okay. So change them, change me, get rid of them, whatever. I can't handle this, I don't know. ⁓ So yeah, whatever you want God, but remembering to be on mission, that you're here for a purpose, a reason, that's good. So when you pray that, does God give you

Yeah. Yeah.

specific people to talk to then or have you found that true?

100 % and in so many different capacities. And I'll tell you one story about how that happened. I can remember just praying, Lord, get me out of this place. And I felt as I was praying, this is gonna sound strange, but I felt compelled that I was to bake a cake and take it into work. And I can remember thinking, well, that's just crazy. If I'm gonna bake a cake, it's going to be for my family. And I can remember literally having arguments with the Lord saying,

Okay.

They're mean to me, Lord. Do you see the way they treat people? They don't deserve a cake. Why would I bring them a cake? And I would go back and forth. I mean to tell you, it was months that this went on, this dialogue that this, kept being impressed on me to bring a cake to them to work. And I was going back and forth with him. So finally I was talking to a friend. said, Hey, how are things going at work? She knew about my situation and I told her how terrible it was. And I brought up the cake thing, fully expecting her to say, yeah, that

you should probably just let that go. Instead, she looked at me in the face and she said, Jen, make the cake. And I tell you, there was conviction that covered me like a blanket. And I said, okay, Lord, I'm going to make this cake. So I did. And the night before I took it in, I was praying for the next day and the opportunities that might come. And I felt the Lord impress on my heart. When people ask you why you brought in this cake, I want you to give me the glory for it. It's not just because you're a good person. And I just thought, well, now Lord,

Isn't it enough I am bringing in this cake? You finally, it's been months now, you brought me this place of surrender and now what am I gonna say? They're gonna think I'm weird. What will I say that won't sound weird? So I finally, I prayed through that. had rehearsed something that I was going to say. The next day I brought in cake. The first three different people asked me why I did that. The first one came up to me and said, that was really nice of you. Why did you do that today?

Took a deep breath and I said, well, I pray for this unit and the people in it on a regular basis. And I just felt compelled to bring in a cake just to make your day a little bit brighter today. And she looked at me and said, wow, that's really nice. She said, now that I know that I've really been struggling with my faith, would it be okay if I just came and talked to you about that sometime? And as she walked away from me, I just said, Lord, just forgive me. Forgive me for questioning something that I knew that you

Hmm, wow.

impressed on my heart questioning what good you would do with that and just the reluctance on my end dragging my feet to bring me to that place. So that was just one example of little things that he'll just prompt me to do that I know is a God assignment not from my own self.

Sure, no, that's cool. And that's how God works. We sometimes don't understand why. You do it, go forward, and God does amazing things for us that way. So yeah, you talk about remembering your identity. Can you give us a few scriptures or a few thoughts on who we are in Jesus? Have you done that?

I would love to, especially again, talking about the context of a work environment in a toxic one. think sometimes if you are in a place where you feel like you're being beaten down or oppressed, or you're just really dreading going to work, just remembering who you are, that you have been equipped to be a warrior, that you have a spiritual armor and you are in a spiritual battle with a spiritual weapon. So that changes our mentality.

of not just being a victim, no, you're a victor and you can take authority where you're at because you are a child of the most high God. That is who you are. He knows the number of hairs on your head. He knows your surrounding circumstance. And when you're feeling that toxic covering over you, you just remember that there is no authority over you. You have got the Lord on your side. He knows exactly where you are and you have his favor on you.

regardless of where you're at, no one can touch that. It doesn't matter if you're in a toxic environment, you have God's favor. You are positioned securely with Him and no one else can touch that or remove that from you. Your favor in God's sight, that is rock solid.

Very good, very good. Applying a scripture is also super helpful too. You know, Jesus says, treat others the way you want them to treat you. That's very true. And there's a reason for it too. mean, besides just Jesus said it's good. I've worked in the trailer fact before and it's not a nice place to work. But what I found is that the world treats you like you treat them.

you the world treats you like you treat them. You're supposed to treat them nice. So what happened with me, I treat everybody nice and they treated me nice. They treated me with respect. Although I saw those same people treat so many other people rude and not nice and everything else. I'm just like, that's why Jesus said that. Because my view, I'm supposed to be the instigator to treat people nicely. And the world basically will treat you how you treat them. So you treat them nice, they'll treat you nice.

That's true. That's true.

And that's part of remembering who you are. You might take some hits at the time, but Jesus did too. We're here to change the culture and be a light. That's why we're a light in this dark world.

Yet, as you were talking and saying that, the verse that came to my mind was from Matthew 5.14 when he said, are the light of the world, that we are to let our light shine. And he says in that verse that we should let our good work seen for his glory. So we want to make sure that as we are being deliberate, and I think it's just key too to remember the source of our light. Our light doesn't shine brighter just because we do good things.

the light is him in us. So sometimes, even if we're not aware, just by virtue of his presence and us leaning into him and yielding to him and following him as he leads us, our light is going to shine, just like we're also told that we have the aroma of Christ. So when we, just by virtue of walking in obedience to him, our light is going to shine, even when we don't really realize that it is.

Yep, and ⁓ I've noticed that praying to be a light in this dark world, it's kind of like praying for patience. know, tribulation brings about patience and praying for it to be a light, like, well, you know, the darker the place, the lighter your bright shines. So it's like, I didn't mean it that way. I didn't want to go into a dark, dark place just to be a light, but that's funny. It happens that way. So Jen.

⁓ If I was a leader and I want to change my culture, I'm going to look at myself first. What are some other steps we can do to practically shift our culture into a good way?

I think it's very wise to be mindful of Proverbs 18, 21 that tells us that death and life are in the power of the tongue. And I think if you're in a toxic workplace, a lot of times that's going to be indicative of the language that's being spoken. Or how are people talking to each other? And then to take a look at yourself as a leader, okay, am I speaking words of encouragement? Am I speaking words to give life and not crushing to people? And then,

Mm.

even just sometimes the profanity sometimes that is just rampant and so socially acceptable. You sometimes I think you make a statement by what you don't engage in. And if you do make a statement just by not engaging in that type of talk, people are going to notice that because you're going against the grain of what a lot of people consider acceptable in their workplace.

So I think that's another way, also demonstrating kindness, going out of your way to show an act of kindness to someone. Like you were talking about that guy who just drove you nuts at work. I think all of us could probably think of someone like that in our world. Maybe we pray and ask the Lord, how can I show that person kindness? And then when he puts it on your heart, do it.

Or maybe it's how can I be a servant to someone else? Maybe the person that sits next to you, you can see that they're under a heap of tasks and they're just struggling to get through the day. Maybe there's something you can do to lighten their load. Or just sometimes being a listening ear for people. Life isn't easy and we're all going through stuff. And sometimes just being available to just be a listening ear to someone can really speak just volumes and love to that person.

Those are a couple of things that come to my mind.

Sure, yep, and that's a lot. Talking, acting, all that stuff is very good. I love your example of the cake. ⁓ And like everything else, talk to God and say, hey, what do you want me to do? And then do it. ⁓ Jen, how can we find out more about you if you want to find out more about Anchored and Assured Ministries and ⁓ other things? Do have a website?

That's right.

So I

do, it's anchoredunassured.com where you can download lots of free resources including the first chapter of Anchor Your Identity in Christ for free. It's a verse by verse study through the book of Ephesians. I also have tools like the Spiritual Warfare Toolkit. It's a five lesson study on the armor of God and being victorious in spiritual battle.

I also am a frequent speaker at retreats conferences and you can check out my topics either on my website or at ChristianWomenSpeakers.com.

All right, very good. And I'll take all those down. We'll put them in the show notes if you didn't catch all that. ⁓ Jen, one focusing question at the end here. So what is one simple way that we can begin to apply this in our life, what we've been talking about with your identity in a workplace?

I would say to ask the Lord to put one thing on your heart. What one thing does he want you to do? Is that one person? Is that one thing? Is that praying as you walk through your workplace? Is that attaching yourself to someone to show them support in some way? Ask the Lord to show you one thing and then do it. Don't wait months like I did with the cake thing. I wouldn't recommend that, but just pray and ask him what's the one thing and he will show you.

Okay, that's great, great advice. Just talk to the Lord. Say, hey, what do want me to do? Very good. Well, thank you, Jen, for your time and your encouragement today. I loved it. Your next step is to put in practice what you've heard is to check out the show notes for the links, the sites, the contact information, et cetera, to get to know Jen a little bit more. And then sign up for a newsletter for a weekly inspiration and for Bible verses for business success, for you to read, apply, and be inspired by. And friends, that's all we have for now. trust you've been inspired to redeem your business.

Thank you.

Redeem your time, buy it back, and walk worthy of God's great name. Bye for now.