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Rock Star to Hermit: The Power of Solitude with Music Legend John Michael Talbot
13th May 2024 • Seek Go Create - The Leadership Journey for Christian Entrepreneurs, Faith-Based Leaders, Spiritual Growth, Purpose-Driven Success, Innovative Leadership, Kingdom Business, Entrepreneurial Mindset, Christian Business Practices, Leadership Development, Impactful Living • Tim Winders - Coach for Leaders in Business & Ministry
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Are you feeling overwhelmed by the constant noise and distractions of today’s world? In this thought-provoking episode of Seek Go Create, we sit down with the legendary John Michael Talbot to explore the transformative power of solitude and the lost art of deep prayer. Discover how this acclaimed musician and author harmonizes a life of contemplative spirituality with a successful career, defying the conventional patterns of the Christian music industry. Join Host Tim Winders on a soul-stirring journey as we delve into the secrets of living a purposeful, undistracted life focused on seeking the kingdom of God. Tune in to find out how silence and solitude can lead you to true success and creative fulfillment beyond the noise.

"In a society saturated with distractions, finding the quiet to deepen prayer becomes revolutionary." - John Michael Talbot

Access all show and episode resources HERE

About Our Guest:

John Michael Talbot is a renowned figure in Christian music, a best-selling author, and the founder of a spiritual community. With a prolific career that spans more than four decades, Talbot has composed 59 albums and is the author of 38 books, ministering to over a million people worldwide. His journey across various philosophies and religions ultimately led him to an encounter with Jesus, which significantly shaped his path. His conversion to Catholicism and subsequent musical shift toward contemplative melodies has distinguished him as a pioneer in the industry. As a dedicated proponent of monasticism, and a recipient of numerous awards and recognitions for his contributions, Talbot's focus remains deeply rooted in spirituality, prioritizing communion with God and the inner workings of the Holy Spirit over worldly success. Through his testimony and work, he continues to inspire many on the importance of prayer, solitude, and the pursuit of a more meaningful, less distracted life.

Reasons to Listen:

1. Unlock the Power of Solitude: Discover how embracing solitude and contemplative practices can transform your focus, creativity, and spiritual journey with insights from legendary Christian musician John Michael Talbot.

2. Redefining Success: Learn a profound and alternative definition of success that goes beyond material achievements and accolades, finding fulfillment in doing God's will as John Michael Talbot shares his personal and spiritual transformations.

3. Wisdom from a Musical Pioneer: Benefit from the wisdom and experiences of a pioneer in Christian music with 59 albums and 38 books, as John Michael Talbot discusses the intersection of monastic life, creative work, and deep prayer.

Episode Resources & Action Steps:

Resources Mentioned:

1. John Michael Talbot's Website: Provides information about his ministry, his music, his books, the monastery, and the bakery he mentioned. It's also a place where you can find his spiritual school and other resources to support their community.

2. John Michael Talbot's Autobiography - Late Have I Loved You: An updated version of Talbot’s life story, it offers a deeper look into his personal experiences, encounters with spirituality, and his conversion to Christianity.

Action Steps:

1. Assess Personal Media Consumption: Following John Michael Talbot's concerns about distractions, a listener could analyze and possibly reduce their own engagement with distracting media. This can include limiting time spent on smartphones, social media, and television to enhance focus and contemplation.

2. Explore Solitude and Contemplative Practices: Inspired by John Michael Talbot's advocacy for solitude and contemplation, listeners can practice setting aside dedicated time for prayer, deep thought, or meditation. This could be built into daily routines or scheduled as periodic retreats to foster a deeper spiritual connection.

3. Reflect on Personal Definitions of Success: After hearing the insights from the episode, listeners can contemplate their own definitions of success. John Michael Talbot encourages defining success in terms of doing God's will and finding joy in it, so listeners might explore what that means to them and how it compares to more material understandings of success.

Resources for Leaders from Tim Winders & SGC:

🔹 Unlock Your Potential Today!

  • 🎙 Coaching with Tim: Elevate your leadership and align your work with your faith. Learn More
  • 📚 "Coach: A Story of Success Redefined": A transformative read that will challenge your views on success. Grab Your Copy
  • 📝 Faith Driven Leader Quiz: Discover how well you're aligning faith and work with our quick quiz. Take the Quiz

Key Lessons:

1. The Value of Solitude and Contemplation: John Michael Talbot underscores the importance of seeking solitude and engaging in deep prayer to foster a more meaningful spiritual life. This practice allows individuals to deepen their relationship with God and find clarity amid a world filled with distractions.

2. Redefining Success: Success shouldn't be measured merely by external accomplishments and material gains but rather by aligning with God's will and achieving fulfillment through being faithful to divine guidance. John Michael Talbot's discussion with Tim Winders highlights that true success is found in doing what brings peace and joy in service to God.

3. The Paradox of Technology and Connection: While technology enables us to connect in various ways, it also presents challenges to genuine engagement and can contribute to a society increasingly distracted and less capable of deep contemplation. John Michael Talbot points out the need for balance and the conscious effort to disconnect from distractions to connect more deeply with the divine.

4. The Journey from Performance to Presence: There is a profound shift from pursuing active ministry and aggressive career advancement to embracing a life of prayer and presence. The transition from a doing-based identity to a being-based existence is exemplified through John Michael Talbot's personal experiences and career evolution.

5. Support and Engagement with Purpose-Driven Communities: John Michael Talbot's invitation to support his community's initiatives, such as the monastery and bakery, serves as a lesson in building and sustaining ventures that align with spiritual values and contribute to a greater purpose. Engaging with such communities can help individuals find deeper meaning and support collective spiritual growth.

Episode Highlights:

00:00 John Michael Talbot bridges art and spirituality.

05:19 Struggling with participation in a large event.

10:59 Studio players for recordings, bring in hits.

21:09 Reflection on potential success and spiritual fulfillment.

24:29 Solitude, monastic lifestyle, contemplative, Christian-driven hermitage.

32:43 Hermitage and monk have roots in Greek.

37:03 Monks live alone but are united together.

40:16 Average person looks at phone every 2 seconds.

47:47 Balancing being vs doing, solitude, productivity challenges.

53:40 Added stories, wrote autobiography, found community.

55:30 Book was helpful, gave glimpse into success.

01:00:52 Appreciative of conversation, recommends book, seeks solitude.

Thank you for listening to Seek Go Create!

Our podcast is dedicated to empowering Christian leaders, entrepreneurs, and individuals looking to redefine success in their personal and professional lives. Through in-depth interviews, personal anecdotes, and expert advice, we offer valuable insights and actionable strategies for achieving your goals and living a life of purpose and fulfillment.

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Transcripts

Speaker:

John Michael Talbot: I've done all these things, I've won these awards,

Speaker:

I've sold millions of records, I've sold hundreds of thousands of books,

Speaker:

I've started a community, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda, played with the

Speaker:

Pope, and now at this point in my life, it's like, well, that's all straw.

Speaker:

Oh,

Tim Winders:

How does one blend the depth of monastic spirituality with

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the contemporary rhythms of life?

Tim Winders:

Today on Seek Go Create, we're joined by John Michael Talbott, a pioneer and legend

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in Christian music, whose life's work has

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not only won awards, but has also touched the hearts of millions around the world.

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With the release of his 59th album, Late Have I Loved You, and his 38th book

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and first autobiography with the same name, John Michael continues to inspire

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through his melodies and his words.

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As the founder and general minister of the Brothers and Sisters of

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Charity at Little Portion Hermitage in Arkansas, John Michael embodies

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a unique blend of artistic talent and deep spiritual commitment.

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Through his inner room of spirituality, he extends an invitation to all for

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a deeper relationship with Christ.

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John Michael, welcome to seat.

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Go create.

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John Michael Talbot: Well, thanks for having me into your seat.

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Go create home, Tim.

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Oh,

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monastic lifestyle.

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I just shared with you before we hit record, my simple lifestyle, not quite the

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same, but my RV, but we're traveling on the road and, and I'm just so intrigued

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and excited about this conversation, John Michael, before we get started,

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though, before we get started, let me just ask my sort of, I guess my first.

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Icebreaker type question that I ask most people and it's going to be fun

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with you because of your deep rich experience But if somebody asks you

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currently what you do What's your answer?

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What's your answer to them?

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John Michael Talbot: Well, I tend not to respond to what you do.

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I prefer to say who I am because I have for years and years and

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years said, don't define yourself.

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Define yourself by what you do.

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Define yourself by who you are.

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in my music ministry, for instance, I said, I don't

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define myself by my ministry.

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I define myself by who I am in Christ.

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And, if I define myself by who I am, my ministry can be

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whatever God wants it to be.

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It can be nothing but contemplative prayer.

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At this point in my life, I'm moving more and more into solitude.

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And at the beginning of my ministry, I spent enormous

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periods of time in solitude.

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We can get into that.

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and the ministry flowed out of that in utter distinction to what was the typical

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pattern in Christian contemporary music.

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Yet my recordings vastly outsold anybody else's.

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for several decades, I outsold anybody else, up until the advent of Amy Grant.

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And then in Sparrow Records, the enormously talented Stephen

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Curtis Chapman finally outsold me.

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But for the whole first two or three decades in Sparrow Records, I

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was hands down the biggest seller.

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And I wasn't trying to sell anything.

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And I wasn't trying to have a ministry.

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I was trying to be as much in communion with Christ as I possibly could be.

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And that's still my position today.

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I just wrote a letter today to a very, very big gathering that's going to be

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going on in the United States, some 80, 000 people, that I was invited to

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go and sing one of my signature songs.

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And I've been really, really struggling in my heart that I

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didn't feel led to go and be there.

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Everything from the external perspective said I should go.

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And I've done huge gatherings, papal events with 800, 000 people,

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500, 000 people, 120, 000 people.

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So I've done those kinds of events.

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This one is not quite that big.

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It's about 80, 000 people.

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But I didn't have a peace in my spirit.

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And I'm waiting yet another day, but I think I'm going to send him a letter

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that says, I don't have a peace in my heart about being part of this.

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I will pray for you.

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I'll, I'll be in my hermitage praying seriously for the success of this

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event, but I don't think the Holy Spirit wants me to be part of this.

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So it's more important to be in communion with God in Christ, and

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then let the Whatever you do, flow from that than it is to define

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yourself according to what you do.

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Defining yourself according to what you do is a real, I believe,

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a treacherous, because then you begin to possess your doing or your

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ministry, per se, and you suffocate it.

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And then God is not free to work through it or whatever

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he wills to do in your life.

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He may call you to something else

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and you have to be open to that change, to that different direction

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that he may be calling you to.

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And, the greatest doing in monastic life is to pray and do nothing but pray.

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the the challenge that Many people at one of the I was smiling

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as you were saying parts of that.

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First of all, I'd I agree It's to me.

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I believe what you

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do is a very It's a superficial question, but it's a question

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that many people will ask.

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And the cool thing about what we've done on, on the show here is that we

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will, we will often veer off of that because of exactly what we're saying.

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In fact, two or three shows ago, I think it was a Steven DeSilvo.

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We did get off on this conversation of being Versus doing.

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And the

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reason I was smiling as you were speaking, John Michael, is because I've got one

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page of notes here with things that I

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hope to get to.

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I may not during this conversation, but at the very bottom I wrote being or doing.

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At the bottom

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of this page.

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And I wanted to have a conversation with you.

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And my follow up question is you you've got such a rich history.

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I read, I read your book late.

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Have I loved you over the last couple of days?

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Listen to some of the musics, but I have to share that.

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One of the things I did last night.

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My wife stepped outside and we have, we're here in the RV and we've got a awning and

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the weather was beautiful here in Arizona.

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And she stuck her head out as I was finishing reading it.

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In fact, and she said, she goes, stay out there.

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I'm going to bring dinner out.

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And here's the speaker set up some music.

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And I went back to, I went on iTunes and I hadn't, and I wanted to

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refresh my memory to, Mason profit.

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Cause I

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knew I knew some of that.

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yeah.

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we're going way back here.

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So pardon me, but, but, but here's, and so we listened to Mason profit over,

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over our dinner, just so you know, but my question as a follow up is that from

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reading your book, listening to music, just looking at the scope of your journey.

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It's, it's been that journey where along the way, have you had high points, low

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points where you were doing more than you were being, you know what I mean?

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You were in that.

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And again, we like to talk to success here.

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You were chasing or pursuing success versus being who you were.

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And anyway, that's a big question, but any thoughts on that?

Tim Winders:

First of all, thank you for our dinner music.

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We appreciate it.

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: Oh, my, my pleasure.

Tim Winders:

Well we certainly were with Mason Prophet.

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that goes back to when I was like 15 years old.

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So we were part of the country rock, experiment.

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At the beginning, the birds really birthed this new genre.

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with Sweetheart of the Rodeo and several new bands picked up

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on it in Southern California.

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We were in Chicago.

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We were an Indianapolis based band and our producer was in Chicago.

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And he said, you guys ought to try this because you, John, you play banjo and

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Dobro and you're a string guy wizard.

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you play lead guitar, et cetera, et cetera.

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So I picked up the pedal steel and we did a demo and they sold it.

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It went to a small label.

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We ended up eventually being on Warner Brothers, doing five records.

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And we were the, expected new super group in the record industry.

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Terry was, my older brother of six years was, absolutely stunning on stage.

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He was charismatic.

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I mean, the crowds worked into an absolute frenzy, but we

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didn't know how to make records.

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We really didn't know how to record.

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So we could never get what happened live onto record.

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So we had two people.

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Jerry, Jerry, Weintraub wanted to manage us and Joe Smith at Warner

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Brothers really, they got together and suggested, look, you've got these guys

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from your high school years in the band.

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They're really good.

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Keep them for live.

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But in the, in the studio, bring in studio players, you and John, he's talking

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to Terry, you guys be the front guys.

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You sing and John, you do the, the string stuff, pedal steel, banjo, dobro.

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But bring in studio players like Lee Sklar and Russ Kunkel, which we

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eventually did by the way on Talbot Brothers, and pick five, let us pick

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five hit records from other writers, and then you write five songs.

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And some of them may be hits, but usually you guys aren't writing hit records.

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And Terry turned them down in loyalty to our band guys, and they said, we

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really respect your loyalty, but, you're not going to go anywhere.

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So we never made it.

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But we were chasing a dream.

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See, we were chasing after stardom and, but I saw the futility of all of it.

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So I began searching for God.

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I began searching for philosophy, religion, and that took me into Taoism

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and Buddhism and Hinduism and Sufism and the Essenes and Greek philosophy.

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I was also reading a revised standard Bible that, my grandma had given me

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and the red letters were jumping out.

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But I, I didn't have a personal encounter with the God that, or the

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divine being or the, the transcendent other that everybody was talking about.

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So after about a year of praying for an encounter, I had an encounter

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with Jesus and we got involved in the early days of the Jesus movement.

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we were still seeking success, and in the early days of the Jesus movement, they

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call it the Jesus revolution now, but we just called it Jesus, the Jesus movement.

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We called our music, Jesus music, and we hung out with all of the early folks.

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And we ended up playing a festival called the Road Home Festival.

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We had, the band had broken up and then reconstituted itself as a Christian band.

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We had Al Perkins from Manassas and Terry and me, a couple of different drummers.

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and, and we, we headlined this festival.

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And a lot of the Christian, singers were on this festival.

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And we ran into a guy named Billy Ray Hearn, who ended up founding Sparrow

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Records, and he wanted to sign us.

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And we said, no, we're, we're breaking up.

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This is our last gig because we wanted to be with Arista, which was Clive

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Davis, who was one of the big, big names in, the music business back then.

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And but he, he thought we had gone too much into rock and roll and

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he wanted more of a country sound.

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He liked the Jesus thing because it was immensely popular back.

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that was back when Jesus was on the cover of Time Magazine and stuff.

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So he didn't mind the Jesus stuff.

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But I told Billy, I said, would you want to sign me as a folk singer?

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as a kind of a folk rock thing.

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And he said, sure.

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So I ended up signing with Sparrow.

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Terry followed suit.

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And, I began playing fellowships and coffee houses and Christian churches on

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the circuit, the Christian Contemporary Circuit, all across the United States.

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But they were very much divided amongst themselves.

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And that bothered me.

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So I began a search for the church, the one holy Catholic and

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apostolic church, and it led me to reading the early church fathers.

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I figured if the Bible came out of the early church, I should

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read about the early church.

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So I was totally surprised to find the primitive expressions

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of what today we would call the Catholic Church in those writings.

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I didn't, I wasn't looking to be a Catholic.

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I wasn't, didn't like Catholics.

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I still don't like all the Catholics, and I am one, and, at the same time I

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was hungry for more of a contemplative.

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mystical, when I say mystical, it just means the mystery of our faith,

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Hmm.

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So

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John Michael Talbot: movement.

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And so I started reading the imitation of Christ and about Francis of

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Assisi and Benedict of Nursia, the desert fathers and mothers and all

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the early monastic expressions.

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And I went, oops, they're Catholic too.

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So I was getting a double barrel whammy of this thing.

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So I sought out a Franciscan priest in Indianapolis.

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His name was Father Martin Walter.

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He became my spiritual father, my mentor till the day he died.

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And in 1978, I became a Catholic and I thought, well, that's it.

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I'm done.

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my doing back to your question of seeking to be successful is over.

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now I've just got to be, because so I, I built a hermitage and just moved into

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a hermitage and I did one last swan song and it was called the Lord's Supper and I

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went to the record company and I, I, I put it together with a group of charismatics

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who were going the same direction.

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I was, they ended up becoming Orthodox.

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I became Catholic and it was this gorgeous setting of the mass.

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Billy Ray Hearn, I remember him, he was my musical mentor till the day he died.

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And, and he said, well, how am I going to, sell a Catholic mass

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to a bunch of Southern Baptists?

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I said, Billy Ray, I have no clue.

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it's my last record, just put it out.

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And he says, okay, it's going to flop.

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I said, I know it's going to flop.

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It's my last record.

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So they put it out.

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And it became the biggest record for Sparrow Records that year.

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And one of the biggest records, probably in the top three.

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in Christian contemporary music that year.

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And then I went back to my hermitage.

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I disappeared just reading and praying and studying and placing

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myself under Father Martin Walter, living with the Franciscan friars.

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And then I did another one called Come to the Quiet.

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And it was just the Psalms, the settings of the Psalms and

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a few New Testament canticles.

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And it was a totally different record.

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Brought it to the record company.

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They wanted another record because they just had this huge hit with me, but it was

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quiet and they said, Oh, it's too quiet.

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Americans won't know what to do with it.

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There's too much space in it.

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He said, well, put it out.

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And they said, okay, we'll put it out.

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We just, we, we made all this money with you.

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We can afford to lose some money.

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So they put it out.

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Well, it sold three times more.

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And that, Tim, that became my pattern is what I'm getting at.

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I stopped trying to do something and I was in the hermitage just being, just praying

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and things began to happen on their own.

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the pattern in Christian Contemporary Music to this day is you go out and

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you do 150 concerts a year and you put a record out every year or two,

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and you're promoting your record.

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You're doing a lot.

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And I was just praying a lot.

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And some music would come out every now and then, and we'd release it

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and it would go through the roof and it would outsell everybody else's.

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So that has become my pattern pretty much in life.

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Now it changed later.

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I began doing 40 concerts a year, but it wasn't 150.

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It never has been.

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it changed in 2008, and I'd be with a whole different group.

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like an itinerant ministry where I was just going like St.

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Paul, doing itinerant ministry.

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I'll tell that later if you want to.

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But, the, the normal pattern for me was just radically

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different than the typical thing.

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The main thing was to be and to let things happen.

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And so that's how I've lived my life.

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And, and I want to, I do want to come back to that.

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There's something that I read a few times and I even read this.

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I think when I went to iTunes going back to even just a quick Mason

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profit question, the comment that was made was almost something like

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they were the biggest or best band that never quite made it, or I mean,

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I may be getting the wording wrong.

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John Michael Talbot: The biggest band that no, that no, that

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the biggest band you've never

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That's something like that.

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Yeah.

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And, and, and my,

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my question is, I mean, you were extremely young.

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Obviously you had, your older brother was around and all that, but have you

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ever, especially in your quiet time wondered If you had air quotes for

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those listening had made it, what kind of trajectory that would put you on?

Tim Winders:

Because it seems to me like you were seeking.

Tim Winders:

I mean, one of the songs I saw on Mason prophet last night was better find Jesus.

Tim Winders:

It said 1972.

Tim Winders:

I don't know if that was, I don't know if that was the actual year,

Tim Winders:

but I mean, there was still, there was still a spiritual hunger.

Tim Winders:

Even in the midst of all of that, but if all of a sudden you were,

Tim Winders:

you ran across Doobie Brothers, all those folks, all of a sudden you

Tim Winders:

guys had, top hits, things like that.

Tim Winders:

Sometimes that starts messing with us a little bit.

Tim Winders:

Any thoughts on that at all?

Tim Winders:

I know, I know it's hypothetical.

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: Yeah, I mean, towards the end, I had become a Christian.

Tim Winders:

Terry had become a Christian, and the band was playing with it, and

Tim Winders:

we were starting to sound better.

Tim Winders:

on record.

Tim Winders:

There were lots of Christians, Jesus people that followed us from gig to gig,

Tim Winders:

from place to place, and supported us.

Tim Winders:

Had we broken, what would have happened?

Tim Winders:

I don't know.

Tim Winders:

There was a lot of drugs in the band still.

Tim Winders:

lots of cocaine.

Tim Winders:

I think it would have been very bad for us.

Tim Winders:

when Terry and I left Talbot Brothers, I heard from, Terry, who heard it from

Tim Winders:

some of the guys in Eagles that left, that we were really considered for the

Tim Winders:

Eagles, and they opted for, and I think they made a wise choice for Joe Walsh,

Tim Winders:

instead, and they wanted something more of a rock, more of a rock and roll,

Tim Winders:

direction, that was fine because they were, they were doing things in their

Tim Winders:

concerts and they, they always had after concerts, the public didn't hear about

Tim Winders:

at the time, but they were really bad things happening in their after concerts.

Tim Winders:

And I I would, I just wouldn't have put up with it.

Tim Winders:

I would have just left the band.

Tim Winders:

but Mason Prophet, there was a lot of drugs.

Tim Winders:

And sometimes those drugs were not pure.

Tim Winders:

Some, for instance, some of the cocaine that the guys got was laced with heroin.

Tim Winders:

And I, I saw, I mean, we had to carry the guys on the bus a lot of

Tim Winders:

times, and they were just a mess.

Tim Winders:

I think had we become really successful, it would have killed some of our guys.

Tim Winders:

And I think Terry would have just become an ego, Because I know my older brother.

Tim Winders:

I think he would have, his ego would have just gone through the roof.

Tim Winders:

And for me, I would have just been very dissatisfied with the whole scene.

Tim Winders:

I w I was on my way out anyway.

Tim Winders:

So one of the things that you did though, and this is

Tim Winders:

I think where I want us to spend a good bit of time on, and that is this

Tim Winders:

solitude and this monastic lifestyle and contemplative, these words that

Tim Winders:

my personality wrestles with because I may be more like your brother Terry.

Tim Winders:

And I know people listening

Tim Winders:

in, we've got leaders, entrepreneurs, this is, I think

Tim Winders:

this is a really cool conversation for, for anyone did, did that.

Tim Winders:

Lifestyle and what you saw, did that drive you in going not just

Tim Winders:

into Christianity per se, but into a, almost a solitude, a hermitage.

Tim Winders:

And also I want to share my, my only experience with what would be, more of a

Tim Winders:

monastery or, we, I grew up in Conyers, Georgia, and there was A group of Trappist

Tim Winders:

monks, Trappist monks there.

Tim Winders:

Yeah, And we would visit there and I would say, this is cool.

Tim Winders:

I remember father Francis, our cub scouts visited

Tim Winders:

here and I did a foot race against him and he pulled up his

Tim Winders:

little tunic, his little gang.

Tim Winders:

He let me tell you that for his aid, he was fast.

Tim Winders:

He blew us out of the way,

Tim Winders:

but it was always fascinating to me.

Tim Winders:

But I always felt it challenging for my personality.

Tim Winders:

So what is it that drove you?

Tim Winders:

I mean, I don't want to say the pendulum really swung, but it really drove you

Tim Winders:

to the solitude and leaving a lot of that behind because so many people,

Tim Winders:

John Michael attempt to have one foot in this system and then another foot

Tim Winders:

in the spiritual, that spiritual realm.

Tim Winders:

I don't even know if that question makes sense, but

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: No, it makes a lot of sense.

Tim Winders:

The, I mean, let me give you an example of St.

Tim Winders:

Francis of Assisi.

Tim Winders:

Who technically in the West is not monastic.

Tim Winders:

He's actually a mendicant, which means open handed.

Tim Winders:

his hands were empty.

Tim Winders:

He was a beggar.

Tim Winders:

but Francis lived 75 percent of his time in prayer.

Tim Winders:

He only spent 25 percent of his time in action.

Tim Winders:

Yet Francis is remembered as the most apostolic man in the

Tim Winders:

Western church in all of history.

Tim Winders:

the Franciscans carpeted Europe.

Tim Winders:

They changed Europe.

Tim Winders:

They were a peace movement.

Tim Winders:

There were all of these, wars between the different, feudal lords in Europe.

Tim Winders:

He put a stop to it without even trying to put a stop to it.

Tim Winders:

It's just that everybody joined the Franciscans.

Tim Winders:

they either joined the friars.

Tim Winders:

Or many of the women became sisters and many of the lay people became a

Tim Winders:

third order or tertiary Franciscans.

Tim Winders:

And one of the rules of the tertiary Franciscans was you

Tim Winders:

could no longer pick up a sword.

Tim Winders:

So they couldn't fight.

Tim Winders:

So people learned how to get along with each other.

Tim Winders:

It was an enormous peace movement.

Tim Winders:

without anybody calling for a peace movement.

Tim Winders:

They just became Franciscans and it changed the face of Europe.

Tim Winders:

And they, I mean, they were the first missionaries in China.

Tim Winders:

They went all the way to China.

Tim Winders:

by the end of Francis's life, they had gotten all the way to

Tim Winders:

England and he lived in Italy.

Tim Winders:

That was quite an accomplishment.

Tim Winders:

In a day when the only travel that they knew was going by foot, going on foot.

Tim Winders:

this guy was this apostolic guy.

Tim Winders:

He preached.

Tim Winders:

When he preached, he preached to 50, 000 people at a time.

Tim Winders:

When Francis showed up in town, everybody came to hear him.

Tim Winders:

He healed.

Tim Winders:

He preached.

Tim Winders:

He cast out devils.

Tim Winders:

he tamed the wolf at Gubbio.

Tim Winders:

He preached to animals.

Tim Winders:

animals that were creating havoc.

Tim Winders:

In local facilities, he would preach to them and talk to them

Tim Winders:

and they would become peaceful.

Tim Winders:

It was enormous.

Tim Winders:

It was amazing.

Tim Winders:

But he spent 75 percent of his time in prayer, either in the hermitage.

Tim Winders:

He founded 24 hermitages.

Tim Winders:

He died by the time he was 45 and he didn't start his

Tim Winders:

religious career until he was 24.

Tim Winders:

in a 20 year period, thereabouts, he accomplished all of this.

Tim Winders:

All of this.

Tim Winders:

It's, it's stunning.

Tim Winders:

So he was an entrepreneur.

Tim Winders:

He was an entrepreneur, but he, but he was an entrepreneur because he first

Tim Winders:

tapped into the power of the Holy Spirit in his life through deep, deep prayer.

Tim Winders:

And at the end of his life, he received the stigmata, which are the, the wounds

Tim Winders:

of Christ in his hands, his feet, and his side, which debilitated him.

Tim Winders:

He could no longer.

Tim Winders:

walk.

Tim Winders:

He had to be carried everywhere.

Tim Winders:

And those wounds, worked miracles in, I mean, all, all people did

Tim Winders:

was they looked at them and they were healed by Jesus Christ.

Tim Winders:

So Francis, there were other Franciscans, Bernadine of Siena, John of the, James of

Tim Winders:

the Marches, John of Capistrano, all of these friars were first and foremost, they

Tim Winders:

created houses of prayer and hermitages.

Tim Winders:

and movements gathered around them.

Tim Winders:

But when they preached, they preached to 30, 40, 50, 000 people at a time.

Tim Winders:

So again, they were, they were enormously successful in their ministry, but

Tim Winders:

they didn't focus on their ministry.

Tim Winders:

They focused on their prayer.

Tim Winders:

I think that's really, really important.

Tim Winders:

and it.

Tim Winders:

And it's quite a contrast from what we see from much of what we see today in

Tim Winders:

ministry circles, business circles, political, all of our systems that

Tim Winders:

it's the opposite of what we see to me.

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: Yeah, but I'll go you one further, and

Tim Winders:

that is, there's no dichotomy.

Tim Winders:

Once you reach a place of contemplative prayer, there's no

Tim Winders:

dichotomy between work and prayer.

Tim Winders:

The Benedictines say, ora et labora, pray and work.

Tim Winders:

So when you really break through to contemplative prayer, you are a prayer.

Tim Winders:

You are a prayer, So Francis would say that, essentially you become a prayer.

Tim Winders:

Your whole life becomes a prayer, whether you're preaching or whether

Tim Winders:

you're in silence and solitude praying, your life becomes a prayer.

Tim Winders:

And when people are simply in your presence, they are

Tim Winders:

touched by the Spirit of God.

Tim Winders:

I'd love to do a couple of things maybe by just to get some

Tim Winders:

definitions as we, and then we can go deeper into some of the conversation.

Tim Winders:

But If you could quickly for someone who didn't grow up around church

Tim Winders:

circles and would be, I guess I'm in Protestant circles nowadays,

Tim Winders:

but the word hermitage, do a quick definition for hermitage for me.

Tim Winders:

Cause I'm pretty confident if I'm a 60 year old dude, I'm

Tim Winders:

going, what exactly is it?

Tim Winders:

I think I know what is a hermitage

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: Well, a hermitage comes from the word hermit, which comes

Tim Winders:

from the Greek word eromite, and the word eromite means wilderness or desert.

Tim Winders:

The word monk comes from the Greek word monos.

Tim Winders:

Which means one and alone.

Tim Winders:

So anytime Jesus went to be alone in prayer in scripture, He is, it's one

Tim Winders:

or the other derivative of monos, okay?

Tim Winders:

And when He went, for instance, He was driven by the Spirit

Tim Winders:

into the desert, right?

Tim Winders:

For 40 days.

Tim Winders:

Or He was, some, some, different scriptures say different things.

Tim Winders:

One scripture says He was driven by the Spirit.

Tim Winders:

to be tempted by the devil in the, in the wilderness.

Tim Winders:

The others say he was called by the spirit, both are pretty strong.

Tim Winders:

but the word desert is Eremos, Eremos, So to be a hermit means that you're

Tim Winders:

going aside from the hustle and bustle of daily life into a solitary place.

Tim Winders:

hermitages are of two kinds.

Tim Winders:

the first is called semi eremitism, and it's, it's a cluster of cells.

Tim Winders:

And cell just means a small room.

Tim Winders:

If you look at the, the, the Latin, it's just a, a, a small room.

Tim Winders:

And Jesus says when you pray, where, where are you supposed to go?

Tim Winders:

to the closet

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: Go to the, to the inner

Tim Winders:

in a room,

Tim Winders:

Yeah.

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: which is, it's actually the store house.

Tim Winders:

In scripture, that means the storehouse.

Tim Winders:

So it basically means go into the pantry.

Tim Winders:

So consider in your house, a pantry.

Tim Winders:

Well, there's no light.

Tim Winders:

There's no, except for artificial light.

Tim Winders:

there's no distractions in there, but there's a lot of good food.

Tim Winders:

So to go in there means that you're going to a place where you're not distracted.

Tim Winders:

So the cell is a place where you're not going to be distracted.

Tim Winders:

and you're going to be able to really focus on God.

Tim Winders:

And by the way, it's the place where heaven comes to earth, like celestial.

Tim Winders:

So it's the place where heaven and earth meet.

Tim Winders:

So a gathering of cells around common buildings like a chapel or a church and

Tim Winders:

a refectory where the monks come together and eat either a couple of times a week.

Tim Winders:

Or once or twice a day.

Tim Winders:

So that's what we have here at Little Portion Hermitage.

Tim Winders:

We have a cluster of cells around our church, our offices, our

Tim Winders:

common work areas, and also, our refectory or our dining room kitchen.

Tim Winders:

And we have one common meal together every day, for the whole community.

Tim Winders:

So that's what I mean by hermitage.

Tim Winders:

And then I, people can go off once they've lived that way of life for

Tim Winders:

a couple of decades, they can go off into greater periods of solitude.

Tim Winders:

So I spend my time down here.

Tim Winders:

You see my hermitage back there.

Tim Winders:

I can spend, I'm down here Monday through Friday.

Tim Winders:

I come up to the monastery on Sundays and holy days.

Tim Winders:

And since I'm the spiritual father of the community, I also teach.

Tim Winders:

And I have conferences with the brothers, as they need them or

Tim Winders:

once a week where they can talk to me about their spiritual life.

Tim Winders:

So that's, there are, there are more extensive periods of solitude for

Tim Winders:

So what about

Tim Winders:

the, the word monastic, how does then that fit in?

Tim Winders:

Cause that is not a word that is common in my vernacular monastic.

Tim Winders:

In fact, even ask you before we clicked on, am I pronouncing it correctly?

Tim Winders:

So monastic, so bring that into the equation.

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: it means monos, one or alone, but there

Tim Winders:

are two different kinds of monks.

Tim Winders:

There are those who live.

Tim Winders:

in some form of hermitage, which was the original usage.

Tim Winders:

But very quickly, a guy named St.

Tim Winders:

Pacomius, expanded it to mean a group of people who live together as one

Tim Winders:

united, but they live in the desert.

Tim Winders:

So they are alone together in the desert.

Tim Winders:

So they are, and literally in Egypt, they were in the desert.

Tim Winders:

As monks moved into Europe, that just meant they live like we do out here.

Tim Winders:

We're two and a half miles from the nearest paved road, but

Tim Winders:

we're alone together as one group of people who are united.

Tim Winders:

So monos can also mean, and, and the word that is used is

Tim Winders:

koinonia, which means what?

Tim Winders:

Common, communion, or fellowship in scripture.

Tim Winders:

And that gets translated in the Latin to Cinebite or Cinebetical.

Tim Winders:

So there are Cinebetical monks and there are Aramedical, two different kinds.

Tim Winders:

It Does Yes.

Tim Winders:

And it's very helpful because it, it leads now to what I'd love for us to do.

Tim Winders:

And a lot of the time we have left, and that is to use some

Tim Winders:

of these principles and some of

Tim Winders:

this, some of this lifestyle to, to maybe convey to who's listening.

Tim Winders:

And even myself, because, it it's, I, we, We hear of someone like you

Tim Winders:

mentioned earlier, that 75 percent in prayer, and it's very difficult for many

Tim Winders:

people to get their head around that.

Tim Winders:

And you, you brought up distractions earlier.

Tim Winders:

And I guess my first big question is we start drilling down

Tim Winders:

and going down a few layers.

Tim Winders:

Are we a distracted society?

Tim Winders:

Are we so distracted that it makes what

Tim Winders:

you're talking about?

Tim Winders:

Almost impossible for many people.

Tim Winders:

I mean, listen, someone right now that I want to, I want to

Tim Winders:

identify the irony of this.

Tim Winders:

You're in your hermitage.

Tim Winders:

I'm in my RV.

Tim Winders:

We're speaking to each other via technology.

Tim Winders:

We're recording it.

Tim Winders:

And then we're going to put that out for people to listen in and we don't

Tim Winders:

want them to be distracted, but we want it to minister to them in some way.

Tim Winders:

So there is a bit of irony that I'm, I might be even interrupting you in

Tim Winders:

your solitude for us to have this conversation so that we to share with

Tim Winders:

people so they can learn how to be more.

Tim Winders:

Lead them wars.

Tim Winders:

Does that make sense?

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: yeah, but, but I'll also say this.

Tim Winders:

I did, I did a podcast yesterday or day before yesterday with a

Tim Winders:

fella who's a bestselling author.

Tim Winders:

His name is Bob Goff.

Tim Winders:

And his, his podcast goes out to 10 million people.

Tim Winders:

And he says, we have to keep this podcast to less than 30 minutes because people

Tim Winders:

just won't listen to more than 30 minutes.

Tim Winders:

And, the average person, looks at their cell phone, get this,

Tim Winders:

every two seconds in America.

Tim Winders:

So they are looking at, I have mine set to a clock here.

Tim Winders:

So I know where we are.

Tim Winders:

They look at their cell phone every two seconds.

Tim Winders:

And if you watch television and I have a TV down here because I

Tim Winders:

used to have a TV show, called all things are possible with God.

Tim Winders:

Now I have an inner room school of spirituality, but I had to be able

Tim Winders:

to watch my own TV shows to make sure that they were airing properly the,

Tim Winders:

the, So I became acutely aware that the average, again, the average shot.

Tim Winders:

in a television show is only on that shot for a few seconds before

Tim Winders:

it shifts to another perspective or the shot is changing all the time.

Tim Winders:

Now go back and look at Alfred Hitchcock who wanted them to play

Tim Winders:

that scene all the way through.

Tim Winders:

He wanted the actors to act and play the scene all the way through

Tim Winders:

and to keep the camera pretty much steady all the way through.

Tim Winders:

And he would have a couple of camera angles and he might change them,

Tim Winders:

but he wanted the actors to act.

Tim Winders:

Nowadays, they don't do that.

Tim Winders:

They say a few lines, they break.

Tim Winders:

They say a few lines, they break.

Tim Winders:

There's still have to act, but he wanted the actors to actually act.

Tim Winders:

No more, no more, not like that.

Tim Winders:

So our our media has, has, infected us, infected us with

Tim Winders:

the illness of distraction.

Tim Winders:

We, we, we are distracted.

Tim Winders:

We, we cannot stay on a topic all the way through.

Tim Winders:

I'm, I'm reading or rereading not only my Bible, but I'm rereading a wonderful book.

Tim Winders:

called Orthodox Monasticism.

Tim Winders:

It's a refresher for me.

Tim Winders:

It's so important to be able to sit down and read a book.

Tim Winders:

It's a long book.

Tim Winders:

This is, nearly 500 pages long.

Tim Winders:

When I write a book nowadays, my editor says, you gotta keep it short because

Tim Winders:

Americans don't read long books anymore.

Tim Winders:

Most don't.

Tim Winders:

They gotta be short.

Tim Winders:

They gotta be about 40, 000 words.

Tim Winders:

They cannot sit down and read a like that.

Tim Winders:

I still believe that.

Tim Winders:

I read long books.

Tim Winders:

We were distracted.

Tim Winders:

And the average book has to be written on the level of a 6th grade reader.

Tim Winders:

That's just where we are.

Tim Winders:

yes, we are distracted.

Tim Winders:

Terribly distracted.

Tim Winders:

The idea of sitting down, hunkering down, and staying

Tim Winders:

focused, and, raising our we are.

Tim Winders:

awareness, deepening our prayer, deepening our consciousness, raising our education.

Tim Winders:

These things are long gone.

Tim Winders:

Now, I'm not going to put anybody down for it.

Tim Winders:

We have been indoctrinated to it.

Tim Winders:

I won't even say on purpose.

Tim Winders:

It's just easier by those who are controlling our media to get people there.

Tim Winders:

It's easy.

Tim Winders:

See, so we have been indoctrinated to it because it's easier for those who are

Tim Winders:

controlling our media to get us there.

Tim Winders:

So they've done it.

Tim Winders:

Okay.

Tim Winders:

Is it malicious?

Tim Winders:

probably not.

Tim Winders:

It's just easier.

Tim Winders:

It's just easier.

Tim Winders:

So we need to, those of us who are serious about our faith, about our

Tim Winders:

prayer, and about our entrepreneurship, we need to go deeper, deeper, deeper.

Tim Winders:

and go higher.

Tim Winders:

And we can.

Tim Winders:

We can.

Tim Winders:

Especially those of us who are Christians.

Tim Winders:

Serious Christians.

Tim Winders:

I'm not talking about the easy mega church Christian.

Tim Winders:

I'm talking about the serious, serious, apostolic, and historical Christian.

Tim Winders:

We can get there.

Tim Winders:

we're, and this is maybe judging slightly, but is

Tim Winders:

someone a serious Christian if they are attempting to have that time of

Tim Winders:

solitude, that time of quiet to live?

Tim Winders:

as distraction free as they

Tim Winders:

possibly can.

Tim Winders:

Is that how we discern the difference between someone who's a, I,

Tim Winders:

think I've heard someone say Chino, Christian in name only.

Tim Winders:

And the word Christian is, you mentioned Catholics earlier that

Tim Winders:

even Christians there's, I'm one and there's a lot of them.

Tim Winders:

I,

Tim Winders:

don't want to spend a lot of time around because I'm not even sure how

Tim Winders:

some people define that nowadays.

Tim Winders:

But, anyway, is that, is that solitude?

Tim Winders:

The separator.

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: part of solitude is part of it.

Tim Winders:

It's not the whole, it's not the whole shoot and match.

Tim Winders:

it's, but it's a definite part of, of the serious contingency.

Tim Winders:

I like to use the word apostolic and the way you get to the apostolic is

Tim Winders:

to go back to the early church fathers and, and you go back to some of those

Tim Winders:

early monastics, see I'm on a crusade because from the third century on,

Tim Winders:

really the monastic church was the contemplative beating heart of the church.

Tim Winders:

East and West.

Tim Winders:

It was only after humanism in the West that we began to lose that.

Tim Winders:

The East never lost it, but, but the West lost it.

Tim Winders:

So Byzantine Catholics never lost it.

Tim Winders:

to some degree, both Byzantine Catholics and Orthodox lost.

Tim Winders:

It simply be because of the, the influence of Western Christianity in general.

Tim Winders:

Protestantism is very much a result of humanism and in Catholicism,

Tim Winders:

we begin to lose it as well.

Tim Winders:

When our religious orders began to be defined only in terms of

Tim Winders:

what they do and not who they are.

Tim Winders:

And this really got out of control in the United States when bishops needed, monks,

Tim Winders:

nuns, and religious, as missionaries.

Tim Winders:

We need you as educators, we need you in hospitals, we need you to do this,

Tim Winders:

that, we, they needed missionaries.

Tim Winders:

In the United States, we've really lost the sense of the

Tim Winders:

contemplative monastic church.

Tim Winders:

So I'm on a crusade to rediscover it and, and resurrect it.

Tim Winders:

And I know several, monastics, abbots, abbesses who are also on that crusade.

Tim Winders:

So one thing, John Michael, that was fascinating

Tim Winders:

to me, and this, this is this conversation has really led into it.

Tim Winders:

It's the being versus doing and spending time

Tim Winders:

in solitude and, and leading a distraction free life.

Tim Winders:

when you were talking about, the, the time that we have, we, that's one of the

Tim Winders:

reasons why it's difficult for me to have.

Tim Winders:

Conversations like this short, 20, 30 minutes, because it's difficult

Tim Winders:

to get into a lot of depth now in the same breath, we take 60 second clips from

Tim Winders:

this conversation and put it out places.

Tim Winders:

So someone can digest it.

Tim Winders:

So we, we're playing a little bit of that game, but I, I wanna, you

Tim Winders:

have done 59 albums, 38 books.

Tim Winders:

Extremely prolific for anyone out there who might be sitting here going,

Tim Winders:

yes, but how can I, they're still wrestling with this being versus doing.

Tim Winders:

I can guarantee you that they're still wrestling with, but how do I

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: start

Tim Winders:

I believe God called me to do, to do this or to do that when.

Tim Winders:

I'm spending 75, I

Tim Winders:

mean, if we go back to a CC, 75 percent of my time in prayer or, or 10

Tim Winders:

minutes a day in prayer or whatever.

Tim Winders:

Obviously you, it's an overflow is the way I understand it.

Tim Winders:

Is there anything more you can tell me about,

Tim Winders:

John Michael Talbot: Silence.

Tim Winders:

if that's the right word, but you know, so you're, you're

Tim Winders:

definitely avoiding distractions, you're spending time in solitude and

Tim Winders:

quiet, but then out of that also see many people will try to make a formula

Tim Winders:

of that and I don't want to do that.

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John Michael Talbot: have

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and spending all that time in quiet and solitude

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and contemplative prayer?

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I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

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John Michael Talbot: to wait for the spark of the Holy Spirit.

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I wait for the spark.

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Or I wait for something, there's a, there's a federal judge that really wants

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me to put a prayer of a saint to music.

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And, I heard about it last October and I'm still mulling it.

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And I, I might do it, but that was a spark.

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It came from a very practical external source.

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And, I'm really considering it.

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So there are outside sources.

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You could almost call them commissions, wouldn't you, for music.

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I'm currently eyeball deep.

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in Isaac the Syrian, really better called Isaac of Nineveh,

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who is considered the pinnacle of Eastern, Christian monasticism.

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He wrote exclusively for hermits.

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People have asked me to write about him.

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I don't consider myself worthy to write about him.

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But I'm still mulling it.

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I'm mulling that.

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I have a lot of books that are still in the pipeline.

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Bruno of Cologne, the founder of the Carthusians, is a written book.

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Seraphim of Serov, we in the West call him the Saint Francis of Russia, is

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already written and ready to go out.

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I have another book called The Journey East, which is just on, Eastern

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Christian spirituality, ready to, What's in, it's in editing right now.

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So I'm three books ahead of myself.

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those all came from Editors mainly saying are my own reading process,

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and the Holy Spirit tapping me on the shoulder going Hey do that.

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and then music is the same.

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I just wait.

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I just wait I'm in silence and I just wait for the Holy Spirit.

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Hey John Michael do this And, my last recording came from me being very sick

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in the hospital and my angel and the angel of death took me to paradise.

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And I got to see all of my sins and all of God's forgiveness in one experience

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where all I could do was weep.

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And I wept every time I prayed, especially when I went to mass,

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the roof of the church is like it came off and heaven and earth met.

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And especially at the consecration, suddenly I was at the foot of the cross,

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He was dying for me, I was at the empty tomb, I was on the Mount of Ascension, I

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was in the upper room and the Holy Spirit was given, all of that became right now.

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It was beyond words, and all I could do was weep, and it's still that way for me.

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It's hard for me to go and pray in public now, after this.

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And, and the Lord, the Lord said to me, try to put that to music.

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So my last recording is trying to put some of that to music.

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And I needed to update my biography, and Dan O'Neill has always been the

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biographer, and my editor said, John, why don't you do it as an autobiography?

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So I updated it as an autobiography.

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I shortened it, put in several more stories that have never

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been part of the biographies.

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And I told my story about this experience in paradise and some fun stories about,

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like the birds playing bumper cars with us when we were going to Champaign, Illinois.

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Told some of the stories from a first person perspective that are

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in some of the other biographies.

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They got a little more personal and, and.

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how hard it is to live in community, especially to found one.

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Cause, that's that's the cross, brother.

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And so I, I wrote this autobiography, but that was just

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the Holy Spirit, to an editor.

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the music was just the Holy Spirit whispering in my ear.

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And I started playing around with music and took the I

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took the, Confessions of St.

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Augustine, and Late Have I Loved You, O Lord, his famous excerpt.

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And I felt like Late Have I Loved You, everything, I've done all these

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things, I've won these awards, I've sold millions of records, I've sold

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hundreds of thousands of books, I've started a community, yadda, yadda,

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yadda, yadda, yadda, played with the Pope, and now at this point in my life,

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it's like, well, that's all straw.

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Like Thomas Aquinas said about his Summa, Summa Theologica.

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And,

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Okay.

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John Michael Talbot: I felt like that, All that is straw compared

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to what I saw, what I experienced.

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And that's where we're all going here.

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That's where we're going, So

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it was so helpful for me who knew of you, but didn't know you

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well to read that because it was, it gave me a great glimpse and put some

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pieces together, especially, preparing for this, but it just, it's great.

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Good to do that.

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So late, have I loved you?

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That's the, the music and the book.

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How should we look at success?

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One of the things we talk about here, John Michaels, if we talk about success,

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how, maybe I'll ask it this way.

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How do you define success now?

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What is success for you?

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And then I've got one more question and we're wrapping up here.

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John Michael Talbot: Yeah, am I doing God's will?

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I can be poor as a church mouse, but if I'm doing God's will, I'm successful.

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I can be, some of the, some of the most unhappy people in the world

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I've ever met are, vastly wealthy.

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And some of the happiest people I've met are poor.

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I've met people in third world countries who are very happy

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because they're doing God's will.

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They're happier than I am.

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And I met people who are really poor, who are just as unhappy as, the most

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unhappy person here in the United States.

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It's all success is based on happiness, your attitude, and

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are you doing the will of God.

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I think that's all it's about.

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I, I used to know a couple.

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they've both passed away now.

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They had, had some terrible tragedies in their family.

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And they were so happy.

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Always happy.

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His name was Jim, the husband.

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And I asked him, I said, Jim, how are you always so happy?

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And he says, I've, we've lost some children.

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We've had some terrible tragedies.

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And, We were so miserable for so many years, and finally, me and my wife sat

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down together and we said, You know what?

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This isn't working.

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We're going to, we're, and they were believers.

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They said, We're going to be happy.

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We're going to choose to focus on God, and we're going to be happy.

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We're going to do His will, and we're going to be happy.

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And they, they did that.

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They chose God's will, and they chose to be happy, and they were genuinely joyful.

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People, they chose God's will and they chose joyfulness.

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Isn't that powerful?

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That is powerful.

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And I think that's a great ending, even though I've probably got so many

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other questions and so many things we could cover, but John Michael,

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tell people how they could find

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you and get in touch with you.

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John Michael Talbot: go to, go to johnmichaeltalbott.

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com.

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check out our bakery.

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it's how, one of the ways we support our monastery, littleportionbakery.

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org.

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We have some of the best granola in the world.

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I'm not kidding.

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We also have St.

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Claire's breakfast cookies.

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It's a grab and go cookie that is absolutely delightful.

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We have St.

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Anthony hermit bars.

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For those of you who kind of love brownies, this is

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a molasses based brownie.

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It's nutritious, but it is truly delicious, and all

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of it is made with prayer.

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So check it out.

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I think you'll be happy if you do.

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Check out all my books and CDs and music.

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You can stream it.

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Check it out.

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It's really important to our community on how we support ourselves so that

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we can be praying for all of you.

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And check out Joining Our Community.

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either as a monk or as a nun, a single, a family member here at the monastery,

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or check out our domestic community.

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And please check out my, online spiritual school of spirituality.

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it's called the Inner Room School of Spirituality.

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We would love to have you on board.

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So check that out as well.

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So

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those are just a few little, bald faced, advertisements.

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I would typically ask where can people find you?

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So we'll make sure we include all of that down in the link.

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So go,

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go check those

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out.

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John Michael, we're seek, go create.

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Those three words, you can probably guess where those words come from their

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scriptural base, but if I were to allow you or force you depending on what your

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personality is to choose one of those.

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Just in the moment that resonates more than the other two, which

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would you choose and why seek go or create my final question,

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John Michael Talbot: Seek.

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Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things will be added unto you.

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Seek.

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Seek.

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Seek the kingdom of God through Jesus Christ, and all the rest falls into place.

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John Michael, this has been such a great conversation.

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I so appreciate it.

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I'm going to recommend, I, like I've said, I've read the book.

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I've listened to late.

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Have I loved you?

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If you've been listening in here, go check that out.

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There's so much more here.

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I, I am encouraged to spend more time in solitude.

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And that's one of the reasons that I wanted to talk to John Michael.

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I know that I need to lead a less distracted life and I am very confident

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if someone's listening in, there's a good chance that you do also.

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We appreciate you supporting our show.

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Thanks for doing that.

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We have new episodes every Monday until next time, continue being

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all that you were created to be.

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