Shownotes
On The Soul Mirror podcast, hosted by Shreya, Elias Martin explores why simple narratives fail us in a complex world—and what it takes to think beyond them.
This episode is for anyone feeling overwhelmed by polarization, media noise, or emotional fatigue. Elias shares how tribal thinking forms, why pain fuels division, and how inner work—not louder arguments—creates real understanding. You’ll walk away with a calmer, clearer way to engage with the world without losing yourself.
About the Guest:
Elias Martin is a New York–based thinker, researcher, and history enthusiast focused on political systems, tribalism, and the intersection of technology and spirituality.
Episode Chapters:
00:00 – Introduction to Elias Martin
02:05 – Why simple answers fall short
04:18 – What tribalism really means
06:38 – Is division getting worse?
10:51 – Pain beneath political conflict
12:34 – Technology amplifying emotions
15:01 – Spirituality in modern discourse
Key Takeaways:
- Simplified narratives create emotional reactions, not solutions
- Tribalism exists within groups, not just between them
- Pain and hopelessness often drive aggression
- Algorithms reinforce beliefs and deepen divides
- Listening builds understanding; debate alone doesn’t
- Limiting news intake protects mental clarity
How to Connect With the Guest:
YouTube, Facebook, Rumble, Apple Podcasts, Buzzsprout
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Transcripts
00:00:08 Shreya: Welcome to the Soul Mirror podcast, the show where we turn inward to understand what's happening around us. I'm your host, Shreya, and today I have a guest who brings a rare combination of historical curiosity, political awareness, and a genuinely open mind to one of the most important conversations of our time. Elias Martin is a New York based thinker, history buff, and researcher who has spent years exploring the roots of America's tribalism, the dysfunction of the two party system, and how technology and spirituality together might be shaping a new kind of global consciousness. So welcome, Elias. I'm so honored and glad to have you on my show.
00:00:52 Elias Martin: Again, thank you for the invite. And I was I was happy to be here because I you already just gave so much an introduction. I want to make it more spiritual as well, because just being political and technology, it's very superficial, very surface level. It's something a lot deeper than that for sure. But I'll follow your lead, and I just want to give the audience the best value possible.
00:01:20 Shreya: Yes, we will definitely have a very, very engaging conversation. And before that, I just want to give a disclaimer to all my listeners. Some statements reflect personal beliefs and experiences and are presented as individual views, not as medical advice. So listeners should consult qualified professionals for medical conditions.
00:01:43 Shreya: And with that, Elias, before we get into the bigger themes, I'd love to start somewhere personal, like you are someone who is clearly drawn to complexity, to the nuance behind events that most people reduce to a headline. So when did you first realize that the easy answer wasn't good enough for you?
00:02:05 Elias Martin: Well, I realized that since I was a teenager, I was hoping someone else would just give me the answer I used to. I wanted simple answers to. But as time goes on and me being hesitant and I didn't want to speak, but I feel like I have no choice to speak about it. Because every time we do about we deal with these simple headlines like Trump's a madman, Biden is brain dead. Something along those lines. That's not the the full picture. And that just gets everyone either happy depending on what political team they are or angry. If it's the opposition, it it turns politics into a Tribalistic team sport, and that that's very destructive to the conversation. It's like, oh, ha ha, your team, your team is bad. Your team lost. Take that. No, but you're hurting a lot of people along the process. You know, this has big impact, major impact more than just, you know, all of us. I speak mostly for America because that's where a lot of the political dysfunction is. And that's the area where I study the most. But I could see that even, you know, kind of inks out to other nations as well. But I'm not going to pretend I know about what's going on globally, you know? And so that's the thing. I just realized that and what I read it deeper, I said, oh no, they didn't talk about this part. They didn't talk about this part. So I know there was just they used these headlines just to get people emotional. And everything's about attention, not truth. We're not trying to find the answers to solve these problems. Everything is about ratings and attention. Mhm.
00:03:51 Shreya: I agree. And I think there is a word we hear a lot right now, like tribalism. And I think it gets used almost like a diagnosis for everything that's broken in public life. But I wonder if we are misunderstanding what it actually is. So what do you like? Most people get wrong about tribalism, especially when they look at what's happening in America today.
00:04:18 Elias Martin: Well, tribalism goes beyond political party lines. You know, a lot of people just say it's just Democrats versus Republicans. But if you think about it, sometimes it splits even within the party in a very good example of that is a progressive wing of the Democrat Party versus the more moderate wing of the Democrat Party when it comes to health care and even how to deal with crime. They don't really get along with that. They are within the same party in the Republicans, the moderate ones, a little more accepting immigrants, while the conservative ones are just no, we gotta get them out because they're here illegally. So it's even within the parties that tribalism has even split them up. So it's not just always Democrats versus Republicans in America. Sometimes it's within the party. So that's how deep, um, it, it is regarding I just use tribalism because I think that's like the, sadly, if I'm going to be a little bit of a hypocrite, it's a simple way of describing the dysfunction. And if you have to be in this team, I don't know if you're with the other people, you're a bad person. This is why a lot of people start talking to each other. It causes so much division among friends, friends that they've known for years. Family members and coworkers forget about it. It it creates a more it creates a more complicated situation than than it needs to be. So just focus on getting the work done. It's more about, oh, this person's a Trumper. Oh, this person is a far left, you know, Supporter. Oh, no, I can't work with that. No. At the end of the day, we're human beings. We are individuals, and we are more than our political party. And if you break things down more, more deeply, um, then no one is a pure Democrat, Republican, independent. I'm a registered independent because I think two parties, just like you say, your intro, they're dysfunctional. They are ruining this country. We, we, we definitely need a third party, I believe. But I don't want to get too much into that unless you want to lead in that direction, it's entirely up to you.
00:06:22 Shreya: I like when you look at this through a historical lens, is tribalism something that's genuinely getting worse, or are we just seeing it more clearly now because of how information moves?
00:06:38 Elias Martin: Um, I would definitely say, um, it's getting worse and I love how you frame it, how information moves because you already know what social media information or misinformation spreads very quickly. It's not about truth. It's about how quickly the message can spread. And it's been to me, to me, one of the major sources of misinformation. I mean, I could attack traditional media. They've been the source of misinformation for years because they're pushing their own narrative and it's dividing people. Let's just use the current president, the very famous Donald Trump. He's very polarizing. Some people love him, some people hate him. Okay. And just just his personality is very divisive because he says things. Sometimes he don't care. He does what he wants to do. And he he's doing things what he thinks is best for America. And some people disagree with that strongly and some people agree with that strongly. So just within Donald Trump's natural personality, he causes division because the Maga base generally gets happy about it. And while the people who are non Maga, like the moderate right of Democrats, progressives, they see him as an enemy because he's not he doesn't care about emotion. He just goes off the cuff. He just says things with mostly no filter. And that some people love it and some people hate it. Um, so I just think things are getting worse. Try, you know, in terms of scale, tribalism and social media doesn't help because like, because social media goes by algorithm. The algorithm feeds on what you like and it's going to double down and triple down on it for the most part. Every once in a while, it gives something a little different or a little weird for you to look at, but for the most part, the algorithms, the algorithms goes by what you generally like. So if you like left wing content, you're going to get more left wing recommendations. You like right wing content, you're going to get more right wing recommendations. And that doesn't help that that splits the people even further. They and people gotta pick a team. And it's no political system should function like that. But reality say different, differently, unfortunately. Rally rally has a different, um, you know, um, saying or cause and effect and I, and I go by reality, unfortunately. Is there a way to change it? Of course, we just, it's just, um, we, we gotta be more conscious and we definitely, and this is I'm going to speak critically to the American voter or anyone who's allowed to vote in America. You have to do your work. Being lazy and being negative is not going to help because American democracy requires work and all political systems require work. And that's the bottom line. And that's why I got more involved politically thanks to my podcast. And so just talk about the issues, be on the ground on some of these issues as well. So you get a better perspective and you know what you're talking about. So just sitting in an ivory tower thinking, you know everything. Um, if you think you know everything, you're just indirectly telling everyone you're a fool and I'm just being as nice as I could be about that, so I don't we have any more follow up questions or anything you want to add to that?
00:10:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think, I think that that's.
00:10:07 Shreya: Really important distinction because, uh, doing something intensifying and something becoming more visible, I think it shifts how we respond to it entirely. Like it means we can't fix, uh, this, like we can't just fix the symptoms. And also, I'm really curious about what you see underneath the surface of all this division, because when I look at people on opposite ends of any political or social argument, there is often a kind of pain there, even if it comes out as aggression. So what are the deeper patterns you have noticed driving the hostility we are seeing not just in America, but also globally.
00:10:51 Elias Martin: I mean, I love that you mentioned pink. I think that's what drives a lot of the aggression, the fear, and even on violence, because people feel hurt. And since no one's willing to hear them or even listen to their pain, they have no they feel they have no choice but to unleash vitriol and even worse, violence. I do see that in Europe, um, as well. And even in Canada to some degree, um, India, I'm studying on that, so I'm not going to put my opinion on that as well. I want to have an informed opinion. And this is what people need to learn how to do as well. Study research, talk to experts to have a well informed opinion. Don't just say, oh, America's doing well, oh, India is doing bad. No, that's very simple. And you're just going to start problems just by saying simple and foolish statements like that. All country's got its problems, all country's got its benefits and blessings. So let's just have it there. It's just more nuance. One part they could do better. And then the other one, um, there's a lot of work that needs to be done. So that's what I could, um, say about that. It's just the pain, sadly. And, and, and a feel of hopelessness. Let me add in there a feel of hopelessness that makes people very negative and that they want to sometimes do violent things.
00:12:21 Shreya: And like, also like in, in today's world, do you think technology has changed the way that pain expresses itself? Or has that just given the pain a louder stage?
00:12:34 Elias Martin: That's such a good question. I, I, if I'm going to answer it simply, it gave a pain, a louder station because you can express it. And if the video goes viral, rather that pain is true or not. Um, a lot of people's going to hear it and people are going to have opinions. You're going to have supporters and you're going to have, um, I'm just going to use the word, um, I don't want to say haters, but the skeptics, let's just use skeptics. So why is this person talking? But they do they want attention, right? So it does give pain a louder stage. And especially if the, the, the influencer side, not a big fan of them, have a big platform, have millions of followers or subscribers, whatever word you want to use, they have a louder reach. So that person's going through pain. A lot of people's going to know about it, or the algorithms pick it up for some random person, and then that person gets popular. That's a lucky shot. But the first case is more likely to happen because they already have an audience, established audience just to express the, the pain. So And but you know what the silver lining is when you go outside, you talk to people. Things are not as negative. Don't get me wrong, bad things are happening. I don't want to dismiss that, but I think we gave it. We gave it such a big, big megaphone and a big, big overreach about the negativity and that and again, I refer to social media's with their impact and of course, the traditional media, the TV, because TV got the older audience and the social media got the younger audience. So they both doing their part of keeping their ratings attention as sustainable as possible.
00:14:22 Shreya: Yeah. So like technology didn't create the wound. It amplified it. I think like that's actually so important because it means the healing has to happen somewhere deeper than our screens. And also, you mentioned spirituality as one of your interests. And I find that combination so interesting? Like someone who studies political history and also explores spiritual ideas. So in your own life and observation, how does spiritual dimension show up in the way people relate to these tribal conflicts? Is there a connection there that we are not talking about enough?
00:15:01 Elias Martin: Um, let me just say this. The modern thinking wants to ignore spirituality, but that's to me very ignorant. That's you might as well pluck one of your own eyes out. No, a spirituality is very ignored and it needs to be in the conversation because if you have a spiritual look, I look, I was raised as a Christian and like, I'm sure some of the audiences are Buddhist. You know, they follow Hinduism, Muslims, Jews. It's good to have a belief because if you don't, you're going to believe every other garbage or deception you hear out there. So that's why I think there's a connection where you have some spiritual guidance. And for me, you know, you said from within, most importantly, because a lot of people seek outward and they only look at the physical realm. That's blindness right there. When you look within and see how people operate and people who are not, you know, who believe in a god or a higher power, you know, some of those people, they tend to be either negative or they just follow whatever trends the TV or social media tells them, because they don't have their own inner work and they don't have their own foundation, their own guidance. You know, such a relationship with a higher power. I just use that term because it's the audience is global, um, based on the research of the show. So that's, that's my connection. And those who have some spiritual awareness, uh, we are more, I believe we should be more responsible on setting an example about how you deal with conflict with grace, silent power, and maintaining stillness and calmness while people are shouting at you. That's one way of doing that. And there is the the the negative end. Those who say they follow God and all these other higher powers, but yet they do such things. I'm sure that the higher power would not approve of it, use it for deception, grab their own political audience. So there is a connection. It's just that most people don't see it. But I think as time goes on, more people are seeing that connection. I think we evolve spiritually, so I am pretty optimistic about that. I'm not the very first to make this connection, I'm sure, but I'm sure more people are realizing these connections and, you know, and people from opposite ends are talking to, you know, opposite ends politically are talking to each other, which I think that's good. It's good to include shouting matches and sometimes yelling, but that is better than just going to your own side, your own, you know, your own echo chamber and just fuel your own narrative. There's least getting challenges. Just keep it, you know, just keep it mostly civil. Don't get violent. Everything is be alright. This is just a challenge of ideas. You want ideas to do the fighting, okay. And your words, not the physical, you know, not with guns or spears or whatever weapon you want to use. It's just make sure the ideas are fighting, and hopefully you come up with a new idea that meshes some of them together.
00:18:20 Shreya: And also, like.
00:18:22 Speaker 3: I.
00:18:22 Shreya: I find this really interesting, like for someone who genuinely wants to understand people they disagree with, not debate them, not convert them, but actually understand them. What approach do you recommend, like what has worked for you as a researcher and as a curious human being.
00:18:42 Elias Martin: I love that framing. That's the best framing. I might want to steal that for my show. But. But by all seriousness, let's just listen. Hear them out, hear their story. Why? They believe what they believe. Listening. Not shouting. Listening. Get an understanding because people are going to have different political opinions. Me, I am independent. There's some things I agree with Democrats and some things I agree with Republicans. And sometimes I think they're both crazy. Okay, if you break me, if you want to dig into me or splice me into pieces politically, but listen, just listen. Have an understanding. And sometimes they're just going by the trends. Some of them don't believe what they're saying, but just, but but build a rapport, meaning build a good relation, build a foundation before you have a difficult conversation. Don't go. Let me just say something offensive or say to shreds, Oh, I think Hinduism is fake. And I just met you. What will you think of me if I say something like that? Oh, Hinduism is fake. It's crazy. I don't know why you believe in that. I just met you, and I'm just. I'm just saying things, you know, without thinking, without caring, without filter. Almost like Donald Trump. I'm sure you'll be some. The audience will be taken aback about it. So what are you saying? Hinduism is fake. I've been following this for my whole life. You know, if I say something like that without meeting you, build a rapport. Get to know people. People are more than their political party. That's my being curious. Listen and build a rapport. Those are the three simple things I can say before you get into difficult conversations, because that that should never be the first step, because you're not going to change minds. And I will say changing minds is a bonus, not a must. It's understanding and building a relationship and have healthy debates is a must.
00:20:35 Shreya: What I love about that, like it's not a grand political solution. It's something one person can actually do. And I think that matters because real change tends to start in those quiet individual moments, not on the big stage. And let's be honest, trying to hold nuance in a world that rewards certainty is exhausting. There are days when it probably feels easier to just pick a side and stop asking questions. So how do you sustain this practice of complexity, and what do you do when the world around you makes it feel almost impossible?
00:21:13 Elias Martin: And this is something I read in the article. This is not an original idea, but it needs to be pushed. Set time limits on your news consumption because if you consume news, uh, a heck of a lot, you will be depressed. You will be tired just from watching the news and you haven't done cooking, cleaning, doing whatever you need to do in your life. Or if you have children, you know. Caretaker needs. Limit your consumption on the news. If you feel overwhelmed, take a break from it. Take a break from it and just make sure when you're consuming the news, just get what you really want, what you're curious about, and let go if you want. You want to watch the weather? Fine. If you want to hear just I don't know what Madonna or Donald Trump or whoever other political leader was saying. Just make sure you limit that instead of just consuming every pundit with their spin and twist, because you will get overwhelmed, you will be depressed. Um, and that's why limit that. And this is why this is I, I, I have to do a shameless plug in, but this has helped me personally. Ground news is good because ground news gives you the bias. What, what, what political affiliation the sources are covering it and what's the new gender? What's the oh goodness, gender neutral. Hear me talk. I mean, a more neutral headline that is more fact based. Ground news is very, very good for that. And that's what I've been using because there's times I'm going to be very honest with you. I've been overwhelmed. I mean, recently I took a week break before getting back on this. I'd say guest touring because it gets overwhelming. It really does. And then if someone says they don't get overwhelmed, it's because either doing this or, you know, and then there's and I'm going to get into the spiritual part. This is my spiritual plugin. Meditate, walk, do something to clear your head because we consume too much without, you know, cleaning the stressors that drains us. So little digital detox, you know, if you will. In other words.
00:23:28 Shreya: I think that kind of honesty is so rare and so needed. And the fact that you have wrestled with this yourself makes everything you Share a very interesting because it's not theory, it's live. And if there is one thing I'm carrying from this conversation is that division is loud, but understanding is possible. And it always begins not with changing someone else's mind, but with being willing to sit with your own mind. And Elias, this is truly a very, very interesting and very amazing conversation with you. And if after this, my listeners, uh, who wants to go deeper with your work, follow your thinking, or just find you in the world, where can they do that?
00:24:14 Elias Martin: Well, I am on YouTube. I am also on Facebook. I am also in Rumble as well. And I'm also on Apple Podcasts and Buzzsprout for the audio versions only. But for the video versions you will go towards YouTube and Rumble. That's where you get my video content. And because hey, um, I want you get to listen to more unfiltered me extended me. But this here, I just want to give a more of a solution here instead of just, oh, you're bad because you're different. All the shouting match. I mean, you can watch TV for that. You can switch to something else here. I'm just providing something different and, and bring some hope to this ever chaotic times. This is coming from someone who used to be negative, who used to be afraid to take action. So change is possible. That's my underlining message. Even if the news and everything else says says otherwise. Search internally, not externally for solutions because external sources will disappoint you. Most of the time internally, even though it's work, it will give you solutions that will guide you even when things are chaotic, crazy, and just negative. So the answer is within.
00:25:34 Shreya: Yes, and I will definitely make sure to attach. All these details are linked below in the show notes, so that the listeners can find them easily and get in touch with you and know more from you. And thank you so much. This conversation has reminded me that the mirror we hold up to the world only works when we are willing to look into ourselves first. And for my listeners, thank you for being here, for staying curious, and for choosing reflection over reaction. That's not a small thing. It actually might be everything I am. And this is the Soul Mirror podcast. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of each other. And do not forget to hit the follow button. Subscribe and feel free to share your thoughts because your ears deserve premium content. Thank you.
