Shownotes
The core theme of this podcast episode revolves around the evolving dynamics of professional golf, particularly in relation to the LIV Golf League and its impact on players and the sport at large. We delve into the complexities surrounding the LIV Golf initiative, scrutinizing its financial backing from Saudi Arabia and the potential ramifications of its management under Greg Norman. The discussion highlights the challenges faced by golfers like Bryson DeChambeau, who find themselves at a critical juncture in their careers, contemplating their future in competitive golf versus alternative paths such as content creation. Furthermore, we explore the broader implications for well-established players like Rory McIlroy and Scottie Scheffler, considering the pressures of historical comparisons to the legendary Tiger Woods. As we navigate these multifaceted issues, we reflect on the necessity for a more collaborative approach in professional golf to ensure its prosperity and integrity.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Golf Channel
- ESPN
- Westwood One
- LIV Golf
- PGA Tour
- USGA
- Greg Norman
- Yassir Al Ramayan
- Reebok
- Justin Thomas
- Scotty Scheffler
- Rory McIlroy
- Tiger Woods
- Jack Nicklaus
- Justin Leonard
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
Welcome to Grilling at the Green After Hours.
Speaker A:The conversation that took place after the show ended.
Speaker B:Everybody, welcome back to Grilling at the Green After Hours.
Speaker B:I'm JT with Whit Watson, Golf Channel, espn, Westwood One.
Speaker B:It's like a full sentence, giving your credentials, you know, like that, like that.
Speaker B:And his media credentials podcast is great.
Speaker B:Not just because I've been on it, but it is great.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:A couple of people I wanted to, to talk about and the underlying story just of, you know, just happened a few weeks before the PGA was, of course, live golf.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I'm not, I'm not tooting my own horn, but I said this when Liv first blasted onto the set the scene that the Saudis would at some point get bored with it and that they would not support it because I think they were sold, oversold.
Speaker B:What it was.
Speaker B:I'm being very nice.
Speaker B:But yeah, you know, like that.
Speaker B:And not Kreskin or Nostradamus or anything like that.
Speaker B:But that did happen.
Speaker B:And so now you've got this kind of vacuum.
Speaker B:And when in the vacuum, if you remember your physics, which I don't, but I did take it, there's all kinds of things going around and energies and motions like that.
Speaker B:That brings me to this.
Speaker B:We saw, we saw Bryson at the pga.
Speaker B:He did not have a good tournament.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:He seems like a pretty mentally tough guy.
Speaker B:I've never met him, but I couldn't help but think with him and some of the other ones that all the heat from the trans, the transformation of live, if you will, and then the heat from, like, you know, Brooks Kepka is back on tour.
Speaker B:Patrick Reed will be back on tour.
Speaker B:They've gone through the process and that I can't help but think some of those guys like him, John Rom and all that, they may have waited too long, kind of.
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I, you know, I can't tell you what the tour is going to do.
Speaker B:Nobody can.
Speaker B:But I, I just wanted to get your whole take on that whole scenario because Bryson didn't have a good, like I said, he did not have a good pga.
Speaker B:I don't know if he was welcomed warmly by the fans.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I wasn't there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So he just did a podcast with Katie Miller, who is the wife of Stephen Miller, who is President Trump's advisor, and it's a politically leaning podcast.
Speaker A:But he, he said some interesting things during that podcast about he's not sure if he wants to continue playing competitive golf or be a content creator because he's had such success with the YouTube channel and the things that happen away from competitive golf.
Speaker A:He's kind of at a crossroads.
Speaker A:I mean, he said it out loud.
Speaker A:He said, I'm at a crossroads.
Speaker A:I'm 32 years old.
Speaker A:I'd like to have a family someday.
Speaker A:I don't know how long I want to keep doing this.
Speaker A:So he's one of the guys that I think is, I don't want to say second guessing the move, but he's not sure what he wants to do next.
Speaker A:Rahm is talking like he's just stuck.
Speaker A:He said himself, I'm not a businessman.
Speaker A:I signed a contract.
Speaker A:I'm tied into this thing for the next X number of years, regardless of what happens.
Speaker A:And the news just came out this week that Scott o', Neill, the CEO of liv, is seeking private investment to keep it going.
Speaker A:He thinks with $250 million of cash, they can keep it going and they can make it profitable within two years, whereas six months ago they said it'll be profitable in 10 years.
Speaker A:So he's going to present a business plan.
Speaker A:He's going to take it to market and try to find someone to invest in it to keep it going.
Speaker A:The Saudis, to your point, have by the end of this year spent 6 billion with a B dollars on this enterprise.
Speaker A:And they're done.
Speaker A:We're out.
Speaker A:I have no problem, Jeff, with a alternative to the PGA Tour.
Speaker A:I don't have a problem with another form of professional golf in the U.S. but the way this thing was handled from the start was a disaster.
Speaker A:Putting Greg Norman in charge.
Speaker B:Oh, Jesus.
Speaker A:Was the worst thing they could possibly do.
Speaker A:People don't understand.
Speaker A:And this is not me talking.
Speaker A:I've been doing this, like I said, 15 years.
Speaker A:People don't understand how widely disliked Greg Norman is in mainstream golf, whether it's Augusta national or the PGA Tour or the usga.
Speaker A:He's a polarizing figure and making him the face and voice of liv.
Speaker A:They were doomed from the start.
Speaker A:Imagine if Mike Wan had been hired as the CEO of LIV from day one.
Speaker A:Imagine how different things would be now.
Speaker B:Oh, sure.
Speaker A:Literally anybody other than Norman and I'm perplexed.
Speaker A:You said they were sold a bill of goods.
Speaker A:I agree with that.
Speaker A:I'd love to know what the meetings were like when Norman first met Yassir Al Ramayan, who is the chair of the public Investment fund.
Speaker A:What did he tell him?
Speaker A:Did he put him on a private jet and take him out to Cypress Point and just overwhelm him with charm?
Speaker A:How did that happen if.
Speaker A:If they had done.
Speaker A:If the Saudis had done their due diligence, they would have found somebody else other than Norman to lead this thing.
Speaker A:And they might still be in it today.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's an absolute.
Speaker A:It's one of the.
Speaker A:The biggest questions I have about Liv is how they started, how they organized it, and who they put out front.
Speaker B:I couldn't agree with you more, Wit, because Norman has.
Speaker B:If.
Speaker B:If you know the history.
Speaker B:Norman has had a chip on his shoulder for forever, 35, 40 years, whatever,.
Speaker A:Since he came up with the World Golf Championship concept, which the tour shot down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus in a meeting, and Lanny Watkins walked out.
Speaker A:They said, we're not doing this.
Speaker A:The Tour got us to where we are right now.
Speaker A:We're not doing this.
Speaker A:And then four years later, the PGA Tour does exactly what Norman was proposing.
Speaker A:And he's never forgiven them.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Never.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:But he's.
Speaker B:I don't know him, but I've seen him in person.
Speaker B:I said hello to him.
Speaker B:He shook my hand.
Speaker B:But he's not a warm and fuzzy guy.
Speaker A:No, I've interviewed him.
Speaker A:I mean, he's.
Speaker A:He's a.
Speaker A:You know, he was a great golf course designer.
Speaker A:I mean, his apparel business was good for a long time when he had to deal with Reebok.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:I'm not saying he's a bad guy.
Speaker A:I'm just saying he's the wrong guy for that job.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, they needed a politician.
Speaker A:He's not a politician.
Speaker A:He is a polarizing.
Speaker A:What did I say earlier about the best players in the world are either really smart or really dumb?
Speaker A:Yeah, he's a very smart guy, but he was a guy that was built on competition.
Speaker A:And if you're going to start a rival golf league, you don't want the CEO to be a competitor.
Speaker A:You want him to be cooperative.
Speaker A:You want them to be a politician.
Speaker A:You want someone who's going to extend an olive branch to the Tour and say, let's work together.
Speaker A:And that.
Speaker A:That didn't happen.
Speaker B:He just offered him a crown of thorns.
Speaker B:You know, And I will say this on a personal note.
Speaker B:I am nowhere near a prude in my life, but I don't know if I would want my CEO a picture of him spread across media bucket in the river.
Speaker B:You know, like, that's not a good image.
Speaker B:Guy's in great shape, I'll give him that.
Speaker A:But good for him.
Speaker A:Not.
Speaker B:Yeah, good for him.
Speaker A:Good for him.
Speaker B:But I don't want to see that.
Speaker B:Jesus No, I don't want to see that.
Speaker B:Justin Thomas.
Speaker B:You know, Justin got hurt.
Speaker B:He had some surgery.
Speaker B:He shows these flashes.
Speaker B:And not just flashes.
Speaker B:That's unfair, because I like him.
Speaker B:But, you know, he.
Speaker B:When he does.
Speaker B:When he's on, boy, he is on in my book.
Speaker B:He is just like this little, you know, kind of Chevy Chase.
Speaker B:No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker B:From Caddyshack, you know, type thing.
Speaker B:And then he has a tough time.
Speaker B:I really hoping that Justin can pull it all together and just go on a tear one of these days.
Speaker B:So I think I know he's got it in him, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:But to knock out three or four tournaments in one year and another major or something, you know what I mean?
Speaker A:I. I hope.
Speaker B:Because I like him.
Speaker B:I like to watch him play.
Speaker B:He's not the biggest guy in the world, and he hits it a mile, and he's tough, and he choose Red man or whatever he choose.
Speaker B:I don't know what he does.
Speaker B:He's a good old boy and.
Speaker B:But kind of why his wheels kind of fall off there.
Speaker A:Well, I love the word tough.
Speaker A:I agree with you.
Speaker A:He is a tough competitor.
Speaker A:He's a guy that doesn't back down.
Speaker A:And I think.
Speaker A:I don't know him either.
Speaker A:I've interviewed him a couple of times over the years.
Speaker A:I don't pretend to know him, but I think he definitely plays with a chip on his shoulder because he's not a physically imposing athlete, but he does hit it a mile, and I think he's had to kind of fight for everything that he's ever gained.
Speaker A:You know, he was not a country club kid.
Speaker A:He was a kid that.
Speaker A:That went out and earned it.
Speaker A:And also a player that is universally loved on the PGA Tour, and I think that counts for something.
Speaker A:There's not a single person on tour that has anything bad to say about Justin Thomas.
Speaker A:He's a very popular guy.
Speaker A:And I think that.
Speaker A:That when you're playing with your peers who are all at this certain level of excellence and they feel that way about you, I think that says something about.
Speaker A:Again, character.
Speaker A:Going back to a word before.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:I'm also a fan.
Speaker A:I'm a big fan of people that are.
Speaker A:Because we're about the same size.
Speaker A:You know, he probably weighs 40 pounds less than I do, but we're about the same size.
Speaker A:And I. I equate him to, like, blanking on his name.
Speaker A:British Open champion.
Speaker A:Now a commentator who is 5 in Texas.
Speaker A:No, from Texas.
Speaker A:Who am I thinking of?
Speaker A:Jeff?
Speaker B:Help Me, British Open commentator.
Speaker A:Shoot.
Speaker A:You're gonna have to edit this.
Speaker B:British Open.
Speaker A:He won The Open in 99, I think, and he.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker A:Why am I blanking on his name?
Speaker B:Jimmy Walker.
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:Anyway, was it also Justin Leonard?
Speaker A:All right, start over.
Speaker A:Yeah, I kind of equate JT to Justin Leonard, who was a 59 guy that couldn't hit it very far.
Speaker A:So he learned how to hit a hook because it rolled.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Playing in Texas in the wind, I always kind of patterned myself on Leonard, and I told him that once when we worked together, and he thought I was kind of weird, but he was like, oh, really?
Speaker A:You know, the guys that are kind of undersized, chip on their shoulder.
Speaker A:They don't.
Speaker A:They're not Scheffler.
Speaker A:They're not Tiger.
Speaker B:You know, they can't.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You know, the guys that have to kind of dig it out of the dirt and figure out a way to score.
Speaker A:I think that's what Justin Thomas is, and I think what Leonard was as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I always remember in one of David Ferdy's books, he talked about Justin Leonard.
Speaker B:He goes, there's something really wrong with that kid.
Speaker B:And he was being smartass, you know, but it was like talking about his logic or something, but it came from Faraday, so.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:So, okay.
Speaker A:With a grain of salt.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, we'll leave it at that.
Speaker B:Last one is Rory.
Speaker B:We talked about him a little bit in the regular show.
Speaker B:Is it unfair to the.
Speaker B:To somebody like Rory or Scotty, to.
Speaker B:They always put him in context of Tiger, you know, because back in.
Speaker B:When Tiger was on that run, it wasn't a run.
Speaker B:It was a.
Speaker B:It was a marathon.
Speaker A:An era.
Speaker B:Yeah, an era.
Speaker B:But you always expected to see him at one or at least number two on the leaderboard, this type of thing.
Speaker B:Sometimes I think we, as analysts, if you will, look at that, and that comparison, even if we don't say it is in the back of our head and perhaps trying to do the comparison to where they are and what we expect from them and then what we expected from Tiger, because there were.
Speaker B:I remember Dave Barry wrote a column that they.
Speaker B:They actually canceled the golf tournament and just mailed Tiger the check.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So that type of thing, that.
Speaker B:That's always stuck with me.
Speaker B:So what's your thoughts on that?
Speaker B:I mean, they're.
Speaker B:They're at the top.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're number one, number two between him and Scotty in the world.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're both going to be in the hall of Fame.
Speaker B:They both got majors they both want a boatload of money.
Speaker B:It's, it's, as we've said in this show, it's so hard to keep that focus for four days, not just one round.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I don't know if those comparisons are always fair.
Speaker B:I'm not sure I'm torn on that.
Speaker B:I want to get your take.
Speaker A:Well, I think any comparison to Tiger is probably unfair because he was a generational athlete.
Speaker A:I mean, he, it's between him and Nicholas as the best golfer that ever lived.
Speaker A:So comparing anyone to Tiger is, at its core, unfair.
Speaker A:McElroy, I think he and Scheffler are the two best players in the world right now.
Speaker A:McElroy is considerably older than Scheffler and entering a stage of his life where he's got the career Grand Slam.
Speaker A:And I don't think his desire is going to waver at all.
Speaker A:I don't think he cares any less.
Speaker A:But he's entering a stage of his life where the physical is going to be more important.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because he's in his mid-30s, late-30s, and this is, as we touched on earlier, kind of the stage where those nagging injuries might start to pop up.
Speaker A:Whereas scheffler is 29.
Speaker A:You know, he's in his prime, and he has another five or six years where he's not going to have to worry about that.
Speaker A:I think that, again, any comparison to Tiger is essentially unfair, but it's a compliment.
Speaker A:Because of McElroy's success on the golf course.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:You know, as you said, first ballot, hall of Famers, both of them, Scheffler and McElroy, it's, it's done.
Speaker A:Done deal.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I, I just, I love listening to him after the Masters because I feel like he's a man in full now.
Speaker A:He's got that monkey off of his back.
Speaker A:He can enjoy his own success, enjoy his own life, enjoy his family without constantly being asked by us idiots in the media about winning the Masters.
Speaker B:You know,.
Speaker A:I think he's in a really good place and I don't pretend to know the guy.
Speaker A:You know, just as an observer, as a member of the media, it just seems like he's in a really good place and I expect him to win.
Speaker A:I expect him to win multiple more majors.
Speaker A:I don't know how many.
Speaker A:I don't know what number he's going to get to, but he's a factor, you know, for the next five years at least.
Speaker B:Well, I think he'll.
Speaker B:It's safe to say he will win more majors than Whit Watson or Jeff Tracy.
Speaker B:Well, okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Safe.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Be careful on that limb out there.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Hit him again.
Speaker B:Where your website is, please.
Speaker A:Wit Watson.com W-H-I-T W A T-S-O-N.com.
Speaker A:It's like I said, a one stop shop where it's got links to everything I do, all my previous work, and a contact page if you want to get in touch.
Speaker A:Everything is right there.
Speaker B:Very good.
Speaker B:Thank you, Mabel.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Appreciate it.
Speaker A:The star of the show is leaving the building.
Speaker B:She's leaving the building.
Speaker B:She's going to her trailer, you know, so she's doing that.
Speaker B:We'll be back next week with another after hours.
Speaker B:Until then, go out, play some golf.
Speaker B:Be kind, have some fun.
Speaker B:Have a good holiday, everybody.
