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How to Sniff Out a Lackluster Property Manager with Janet Fields
Episode 34712th May 2022 • Real Estate Investing with the REI Mastermind Network • REI Mastermind Network | Real Estate Investing
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Janet Fields is the CEO of Oak Trust Properties, a property management company in Charleston, SC. They’ve seen countless property owners get burned by subpar property managers. 

With the holidays approaching, the last thing owners need is an unresponsive manager. Imagine if the oven went out the day before Thanksgiving, and the tenant couldn’t reach your property manager! You could kiss your good online reputation goodbye.

If only you could prevent property management nightmares…. Or can you?

Janet shares how to sniff out a lackluster property manager before you hire them. We chat about:

  • How to know if you should fire your current property manager
  • Red flags to look for when choosing a new property manager
  • How you and your property manager can prepare for unforeseen circumstances, like COVID19
  • The simple test to see if it’s time to hire a property manager (You’ll need a lease!)

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"You can invest 10,000 hours and become an expert or learn from those who have already made that investment." - Jack

Transcripts

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Welcome to the REI Mastermind Network where host Jack Haas gathers amazing stories from leaders in real estate investing.

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In each episode, our guests will tell you what they're doing that works what they've tried that failed, and best of all, you'll learn actionable steps to take your real estate investing.

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To the next level now, here's Jack with another value packed episode.

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We have Janet fields with oak trust properties and you're going to help us here today with how to sniff out a lackluster property manager and that's.

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I'm sure we're going to have a lot of people riveted to this episode because this is an ongoing thing that we all as real estate investors have to deal with.

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So, thank you so much for being with me here today.

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Absolutely thank you for having me.

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So, I got to start things off is yeah, you must be a glutton for punishment to get into this type of business.

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Yes, yes, you definitely take your lickens and you just keep going.

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Baptism by fire is the way to go.

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Yes Sir, there's a lot.

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How did how did you get into?

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This I don't actually know that I had much of a choice in the matter.

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My dad started out in real estate.

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He moved around a lot with military and as he moved around, he really got hooked too.

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Hooked on the process of buying and selling homes.

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Once we got to Charleston, I was just born, but my mom was like, hey, we're not going to move anymore, and my dad still had this itch to help buy and sell.

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So, he got his license helped other people do it.

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Eventually started doing getting his own properties.

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It became a family affair to like to flip these properties physically each summer and then about a decade after that he started his own company, and we were doing everything.

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We were running the books.

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We were stuffing envelopes.

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We were sending out those nice friendly.

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Letters to hey.

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You're ready.

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Went making phone calls, doing data migrations.

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I learned how to change locks at 16, cut grass, trashing out homes, doing inspections just like every aspect of the business.

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Very early in life and it's been quite an adventure.

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It's been a family affair along the way.

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My sisters have found other avenues.

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To make money they've they didn't really want to stick around, but me.

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I'm not a quitter, so here I am just taking the beatings over and over again, learning and just pushing forward.

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Right, so if you want more information regarding what everybody does there at Oak Trust properties, head over to oaktrustproperties.com.

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And, uh, there's quite a few resources there, so it's a good place to follow along.

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If people have some interest, there.

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But first of all, and what?

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What I'm always curious about is.

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What you do and to make sure that interests are aligned with the real estate investors?

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Because sometimes maybe I'm a little soured on some.

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You know I have property managers, but sometimes it.

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It finds out that our interests are not always aligned.

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Yeah, what do you mean by that?

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Can you elaborate so I can understand what exactly?

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Point of conflict.

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Well, you know we we're as real estate investors.

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We're always looking and and concerned about cash flow.

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But to be honest with you, sometimes I've run into property managers that they're more concerned about billing hours and growing their business than it is about making sure things are running smoothly on my property, cash flow and.

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Yeah, that's very interesting because if your client is not successful, then obviously you can't be successful.

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That's not a long-term relationship that's going to last.

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So, in order to be good at your business, you need to be really good at serving and anticipating other people needs.

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So that's.

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That's a very disturbing to hear and a little sad, actually.

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Yeah, so learning about who your client is and who you want and really targeting and honing in on who that best client fit is, is the best way to move forward.

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If you're only focusing on yourself, then you can't really deliver results.

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Or somebody else.

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So, I totally agree to that.

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Yeah, we do need to both make money.

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It does need to be a back and forth, but it has to be a healthy give and take in a healthy relationship moving forward together.

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Yeah, I don't mean to start things off with such a heavy.

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Topic but I appreciate the answer.

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Have fun.

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So, you know a lot of people when they start into real estate investing.

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They're doing this for the first time and they're and you know, I think there's a lot to be learned, especially early on to manage your own properties for that first one at one or two just so that they know the pain that you obviously go through.

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At what point do you feel?

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That they should start to ask themselves when they should be considering a property man.

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Oh my gosh, before we even start.

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Honestly a lot of people will hop into they find themselves in investing properties by accident.

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We find that 80% of the people that we deal with and that come to us are accidental landlords and they did not run numbers in the front end.

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Do their homework to find out if this property was profitable.

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They found a property that grabbed their heartstrings.

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And they wanted as a home instead of an investment, so they saw a product instead of numbers that are going to get us.

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Get them to their goal so when you have somebody like that, they're under stress pretty quickly because they didn't run all the numbers, they're not going to be in the black.

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Most likely there's things that brought value to their lifestyle.

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But not really value to get them closer to their financial goals.

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So those things are conflicting.

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Think when they're distracted by you, know numbers.

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That don't really.

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Help achieve financial stability or financial growth.

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Yeah, I usually.

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When somebody asked me about this, I've always asked, told them to contact some of their local property managers, understand like what you, what they charge for that type of service, and even if they don't use property management right off, at least they make sure you're running your property.

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With those numbers in mind, even.

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Down the road.

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I mean, that's something you probably should account for eventually.

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Absolutely make some phone calls.

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Grab some management agreements.

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Management agreements tell you how they will function.

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Also, there's a lot of things on fees in their and.

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Those fees are.

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You know, no matter you use a property manager or not.

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Those fees are attached to expenses that you already have.

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So that can help you predict where costs.

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Will lie for.

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You, if you've never done this before, so it's a good little number story for you.

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So, if you take three management agreements and kind of lay them out in a number story, you can figure out what to possibly expect.

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Sure, so outside of what you just brought up there, what are like the top three questions a person should ask when evaluating a property manager?

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Yeah, everybody wants to know the fees.

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I mean that's a really big one.

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That leasing fee and the management fee.

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Those are pretty standard, you know, per state they're pretty standard per region.

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They're pretty standard, so you're going to want to know those 'cause they're your heaviest fees.

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But the things that you're also going to want.

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To know are.

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Does your property manager know about losses for you?

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Do they know about days on market?

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Rent losses.

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Do they have goals like?

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What are they trying to achieve?

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Are they trying to?

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You know, be super.

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Efficient to reduce losses for you.

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Are they trying to reduce risk for you by staying up to date with risk with regulation?

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Are they processing applications in a way that it's extremely consistent and they're protecting you from any of the data that could be?

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Used against them later in court.

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Stuff like that.

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It's like we really need to help guide you and protect you from any other risk or also time sucks.

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Right, so with that being said, you know that's some great insight there, but what would you say when you're choosing a new property manager?

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Are there any red flags or warning lights that we need to be?

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Aware of if we in choosing.

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Yes, yeah, if they're not returning your calls, that's a huge one.

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That means they're not reliable, and they're not going to be able to serve you because you need somebody to give you back your time.

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You're leveraging your time and money, so you want them to be able to make phone calls back.

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You want them to bring you solutions you shouldn't be managing them if you're managing them, just go hire an.

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Employee and teach them how to do it, so when you're.

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You're basically outsourcing this task to somebody who already knows how to take control of it, so they need to be coming to you with solutions saying here's your top-level solution.

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Here's B&C, this is what they look like if you go down these paths now, which one do you want to move forward with? OK, that's where you want to go.

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Alright, let me get this ball rolling and I will tell you when a B&C happens. Then I'll send you the invoices and you'll know and.

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We have it on file for you.

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So being super proactive, being a great communicator, and telling you what to expect and delivering on that timeline is what you want.

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Just a reminder for everybody head over to oaktrustproperties.com for some more information on Janet and her team.

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There's quite a bit of content there, so things that really stood out and I really like your website.

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There's a lot of transparency going on.

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Thank you, we just did it last year and we're pretty proud of it.

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So, let's say you're in the situation like I was, where we're dealing with some property managers and and you just realize this isn't a good fit.

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What are, what are some of those things that a person should probably be aware of to give them that red flag to know that it's not a good fit?

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If they can't follow the lease, if you're telling them what to do and how to solve these problems, that's definitely a red flag.

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If they can't collect rent on time, that's a huge red flag.

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If they're letting you approve application.

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Options, that's a big one, because now liability is back on you, and you hired them to reduce that liability.

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You want them to take you bear the brunt there.

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You definitely want them to be brave enough to have those hard conversations with their residents to say, hey.

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You're not following the leaves.

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When you it's time to increase rents.

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You need to have them to go back for.

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You need to have them be brave enough so they can do that because.

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No one actually wants to do that.

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That's not a fun conversation, so you need somebody who's going to bring in the value and to be able to help focus on what is bringing you the return and what's just a distraction.

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So, you know.

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With the last couple years, I always.

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Have to have this as top of mind.

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To how do you?

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And your owners prepare for these unforeseen circumstances.

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Like we saw with COVID.

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Yeah, you just have to put money away and have options.

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If you don't have options, then you really don't have any power in this world or freedom, so you always just have to plan for the worst.

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Have a little money tucked away.

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Uhm, decide X months income for this.

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Just always have.

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Options and money is power, so you need to have you know the old F you money.

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If you need to get out, you need to get out.

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If you need a pivot, you need to have money there to do it.

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If you're so tight.

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That you don't have options.

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It's not right for you.

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Right and then it goes back to you.

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Really make your money when you buy that place, so you make sure you're running these numbers correct.

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Right?

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Yes, so tell me about like some of your most.

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Successful partnerships that you have going on.

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Right now, how?

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How have you helped your real estate investors do this?

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I mean we, I'm sure you're being relied on quite heavily to ensure that the cash flow is there.

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Yes, so a lot of our current portfolio is our accidental landlord, so there's a lot of coaching through how this relationship works, how powerful your property can be for you, and sometimes it's a really hard conversation saying that, hey, maybe this property isn't the right property, and if you would like to continue down.

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This Ave maybe we need to make some.

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Adjustments here.

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Like this might not be the property that cash flows for you, but you can make a sale and buy a property that is more appropriate and that you can move forward with and be way less stressful.

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So, there's a lot of coaching on our side with, I'd say 80% of our clients, but the savvy investors, it's really.

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Pretty straightforward, they know the routine, it just takes a while for them to get off the truck.

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And it usually takes 30 days and they're like.

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OK, this is good.

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They are dependent on the touch points.

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That we have.

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They give us the quick answers.

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They put the money in there and we can just move forward with it, and it just flows so easily.

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Sure, well, what about on the other side?

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What have you seen as some of the worst-case scenarios you do?

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This it.

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This just wasn't.

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A good fit for you.

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Oh, wasn't a good fit for us.

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That's a really fun one.

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Usually, it's personalities and we've had a rough couple of years.

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You know humanity as a, you know total.

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So, I think.

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Everybody is under a little extra stress right now.

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So, everybody is kind of kicking the dog and you know, when you're serving somebody or the dog, so we're getting a lot of kicks, right?

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Now, but we're getting a lot of apologies.

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Which is nice to have the means.

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They still care about us, so a lot of times it's just working through those conversations.

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Getting past the emotions and saying OK, like what do you really need here?

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OK, we can hear you.

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Let's deliver these solutions.

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Let's move forward with this like.

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We don't have to be mad about this.

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Let's find solutions.

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Let's move forward.

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We need options.

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That's it's pretty simple framework usually.

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What was your?

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Biggest learning experience so far.

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As a property manager.

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Oh gosh, as.

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A property manager, I think, just being proactive and really staying on top of things.

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Being able to anticipate other people needs.

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Once you've seen a set pattern so many times, even when you don't realize that you're seeing this pattern, it starts to be in like a sixth sense.

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Do you say like an email comes through and?

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You're like, oh.

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This isn't right.

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Somebody is probably not gonna.

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Be able to pay you right next month.

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Like you can just tell just the way the emails you know come, you know, built out.

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So, you start picking up on little things and it just becomes a second nature because you experience it on such a high volume.

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We have about 600 properties that we.

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Deal with so that that's.

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A lot of.

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Exposure and experience that we're picking up on, and we don't always.

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So that we're learning, it's just happened so quickly.

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So, is there a situation like can you give me an example of a bad tenant that you just couldn't believe it ever got that far?

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So usually, it it's it.

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It really stinks 'cause a lot of times when you have a bad tenant situation, it's because somebody did not respect the guide rails of you know the lease.

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Usually somebody says, well, hey, my brother-in-law wanted this property or my friend, sister, cousin.

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They need this property and it's like heartstrings instead of.

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Numbers and facts and they're saying, well, their family is good like this is going to be great, but then they get into the property and things quickly go South like bills don't get paid.

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The condition of the property goes to.

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Trash and things decline very quickly and then they feel entangled in this emotional mess.

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And if they're not brave enough to let go and let the property managers step in and do what they need to do, they further go into debt.

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They further lose the property that relationship that they've had before with this family is complete trash, so.

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If you can just trust your property managers and let them reduce your risk, we can keep you out of these messes.

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Don't rent to your family and friends.

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People please, just don't.

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Do it, I always have a lease and just follow the lease 'cause when you don't its complete trash it's useless.

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Yeah, no, that that's one of the things that property manager has saved me on I I'm ASAP. I mean if somebody is going to come to me directly.

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I need that buffer.

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Yes, protect yourself, isolate.

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Yourself or you know, I called a cocoon like I want my cocoon to be in the back.

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And you know, I don't.

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I don't want to hear the sad stories the letters of stress distress because those numbers, those letters of distress don't help anybody.

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Right?

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In the long run, like they're just anchors, pulling you down to the depths.

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Yeah, some of the worst properties that we've had or that way, and it's somebody who's financially stressed they're emotionally stressed, and they have leftover property.

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They really need a lot of social support, and they're not getting it, and the house goes down.

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It's very sad.

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And it's beyond what the typical investor.

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Well, not the typical investor, but the typical like entry level investor can handle, just like the dollar signs on it.

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Like a trash out like the house.

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Yes, somebody stops paying for utilities.

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The house quickly goes down like you can't even imagine how gross our house can get.

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If somebody water gets cut off, but they continue to use the plumbing or the AC and Charleston starts going out, and then the house starts kind of rotting from the inside out and the subfloors are.

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Kind of sinking.

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Through and you look next to the recliner and there's like, you know, 100 cups McDonald's.

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And then the dog kind.

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Of rummaging through it like.

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That's what emotions getting in the way of decisions can do is they can put you down this path to just destruction totally off path.

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So, give me an example of a situation where you've helped an investor like.

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Turn a property around.

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Oh yeah, so we've.

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Had some properties like I was talking about where somebody got into the property and within three months team things just went South.

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Like when you look at it with property management eyes, you can tell that somebody quickly had it got into.

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A drug problem.

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And everything just fell.

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They had their.

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Life together and then.

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Just quickly it fell, so we've had a property where.

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They had some pets and usually pets are fine, but in this case at this point something went South and.

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The house smelled completely of urine and feces.

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I have never seen anything like this.

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The yard was just overgrown, so of course it's like perfect for fleas.

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We had to come in and basically rip out all the carpets, do the peroxide like sinking in, getting urine out like we even had to do it in the garage like it was so bad.

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The smell from the garage was coming into the house, so like the subflooring it was.

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It was a complete mess, so it was a trash out a huge overhaul.

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We got the property back up and ready.

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It did take about six weeks, which is.

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That's a huge bummer, but the property is up and running.

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It's better than before 'cause it was a house that was built in like the 80s, so it was a really nice reset for the house it rents for more and moving forward in the relationship.

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It's great, we saved them.

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We took all that heavy lifting off of them, so we had to go for a lot of vendors.

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To find the right one that could actually handle that with the amount.

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Of a stench in that house, it was crazy.

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Yeah, no, I've been there, but for a different, a different reason.

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We had a house that had, uh, the exact same situation was.

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The.

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The pets went rampant, and I can't even tell you how much peroxide.

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And then we even used some sealant.

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In order to just get the smell under control it was.

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It was unbelievable.

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Yes, this is one of the worst ones.

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I've been in some pet situations where you can smell the yarn, but this one.

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Uh, yes.

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The peroxide in the ceiling cleaning the subfloor, cleaning the slab, like 'cause.

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You know some of the house had slab like it was a garage.

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It was awful.

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I've never seen anything like it, and there were some points where people were getting a little woozy in the house from.

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All the fumes.

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Trying to clean it so it was getting a little.

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It was rough.

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Walking out of there and leaves, you have to bomb your car.

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That's a fun time.

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Yeah, it's a.

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It's a punch in the face.

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I mean when you walk in there, it's it.

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Can be unbelievable.

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Yes, yeah.

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And you don't know you're going to walk into that like yeah, the yard is not cut, but when you open the door it's a whole new world.

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It's just like you know, I don't know the end of the world.

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Apocalypse sort of situation.

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This House had fish tanks too.

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So, there's another smell on top of that.

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Right now, wow.

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It was a nose like conflict.

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It was so horrible.

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Right?

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So, you know it like I like I mentioned earlier, a lot of people you know they try to self-manage themselves at first.

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What would you say if a person is going to choose to self-manage at least on their first property?

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What are a couple of the things they should definitely get in place in order to make sure it's right done correctly?

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You're going to want to read the lease and grab some leases.

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Reach out to the property management companies asked to review their leases and see what they look like and read them and see if you can make kind of a timeline because it's.

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There's an annual cycle, and there's a monthly cycle, and if you can kind of write.

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That timeline out.

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And know what to expect and know the touch points.

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You can be a lot more successful, so you can kind of slap those things in your calendar and say OK, this month is one I need to do a CMA to find out what my new rent is, you know?

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And then I approach them.

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With this I need to know if I'm going to go get a re-sign or if I'm gonna go straight.

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Back to market, all those sorts of touch point.

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So that's a really good place to start, and then the other thing is you want to know that least.

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So, any hiccups that you have along the way.

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Uhm, just about every section of that lease is a hiccup, so and it tells you how to handle it.

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So, you need to go get.

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Those people and create like a Rolodex.

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Do we say Rolodex is any more like a list in your drive of all your vendors that you're going to handle like you need to know who your electrician is, who your plumber is because?

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When you get that call.

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Saturday at like 1:00 o'clock in the morning.

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Who are you going to reach out to?

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You need to have these relationships established.

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You need to have these vendors vetted.

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You need to have their.

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Insurance on file.

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So, the game plan needs to be built before you need it.

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When the phone call comes in, it's already too late.

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You don't need to be scrambling, especially if you already have another job.

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You can't treat it like a hobby.

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If you treat it like a hobby or perform like a hobby, so knowing those things, getting your team in line.

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And knowing your objectives and what success looks like.

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I that that was a great line there.

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If you treat it like a hobby it'll perform like a hobby that, Yep, that was that was gold right there.

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You're welcome.

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No, this this has been a great conversation. You know, I wanted to point everybody to your website one more time. Oak trustproperties.com and.

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Reach out to Janet and her team are you pretty much focused?

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In your backyard?

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Or do you have?

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Do you do property management outside of the Carolinas?

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So yeah, right now we are really focused in the Charleston area.

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We are looking to grow.

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We're looking to follow some larger portfolios, so if you do have some portfolios that you're looking for management, we are set up to work in other areas with our back office set here in Charleston.

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So, we're always open for conversations to come on over.

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Tell us what you're looking for and we can see how we can make.

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It works shall about the numbers.

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It's all about the numbers.

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Well before I let you go, and I warned you it was coming.

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Is there a question you wished I would have asked you here tonight?

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Umm, that's a really good one and you told me it was going to be a good one and I'm still not prepared I.

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Don't know, maybe what's my favorite hobby, I don't know.

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What's your favorite hobby?

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I see a.

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Lot of art behind you.

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I definitely have every hobby.

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I'm not going to lie, so six months ago it was art and I used to draw and paint when I was in school in high school did a lot of graphic design.

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Now I've just started running and decided I'm going to do a marathon in about 2 or.

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Three months, so that's my job.

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Well, good for you.

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I've been devouring books.

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Last year.

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I doubled our intake on books.

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From 1:50 to 300 for like business and self-develop.

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So, I'm definitely a dabbler, and a deep diver on.

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A lot of topics.

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Well, I'm always looking for my next audiobook.

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What should I listen to next?

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Right now, I'm listening to an easy one.

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It's the road less stupid.

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Each chapter is about 10 minutes or less, so it's really easy to, you know, divulge like, not divulge digest.

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And then at the end of it, they sum it up in a bumper sticker.

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This guy is a little older, so he says bumper stickers and it's really cute.

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So, it's just easy to handle and it's all the way from managing people to systems and processes.

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Risk reward, just everything business.

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It's a really great book wide range.

::

Well, it sounds like you know a lot of the tips that you're pointing out here today kind of tie into that is the concept of making sure you have your processes and procedures in place and then actually stick to them.

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I am a process nerd.

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You cannot get anywhere without having processes.

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Yeah, if you have to make a decision based on every action presented to you, you will be exhausted and getting nowhere.

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So, try to remove as many possibilities of variance as possible so your decision matrix is not like a wild oak tree.

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I'd prefer to be.

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You know, more like a linear line than 100 branches. Let's make this easy.

::

So, so with your art.

::

And now you're running, you know it?

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It sounds like you do a lot of things to.

::

To frankly, I mean I, I find that some of that would be a lot of people would have.

::

Would say that that's kind of their form of meditation.

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Is that what you're kind of using those types of type of things at?

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100% so I do have a family. I have two boys; one is 7 and one is 11.

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My husband and we all like to stay busy biking and I do work a lot and my husband.

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He's a manager of our family running a family.

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I'm not gonna lie.

::

It's like a business now that I am front of business, I know that, so we are always extremely busy and sometimes I only get 10 or 15 minutes.

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Between eating dinner and putting the kids to bed, so I'll just walk over to the easel and just start doodling or drawing paint.

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Thing and that brings my level down.

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I don't know if you notice.

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I talk really fast.

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So, I have.

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To be really intentional about bringing my energy back down.

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So, we can.

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Have a calming evening.

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So yes, the meditation exercises, definitely meditation, and where my brain out and my body out.

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The same with the art and the same with the reading.

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If I don't read.

::

I can spiral out in some really weird places, so I try to control my mind by keeping it occupied like Border Collie.

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No, I'm the I'm the same way, it's one of those you know.

::

I I've, I've mentioned it before.

::

I think is the fact.

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That you know you hear your the some of the people you hang out with them.

::

Most, but I actually think the podcasts and audiobooks that's like one of my people.

::

Because of I need to constantly be feeding my brain with something like that.

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Otherwise, I it.

::

I know.

::

It's yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, I heard recently my dog had some issues, so we had to train them and they say.

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That you know your family is the animals pack, but when you take him to like Dougie, daycare, 'cause that's how swanky people are today.

::

You taking value here.

::

That's their extended pack, and that's how I feel about like the podcasts and the people.

::

The relationships you make online.

::

If you.

::

Don't really get to see face to face, it's.

::

They're not really there in the same way that the people you connect with on a daily basis, but they are definitely bringing a lot of value to your life in a different way.

::

There's not a success.

::

Well, Janet, I really appreciate your time. You're welcome back anytime so I hope you take me up on that invite. And again oak trustproperties.com I. I hope we'll chat again sometime.

::

Sure, you can find us on LinkedIn as well and we're on Facebook.

::

And, uh, if you're really interested, you can go to Tik T.O.K and see what's going on over there.

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No tik T.O.K.

::

I bet you.

::

Do you share some of these horror stories on Tik T.O.K?

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Not yet, but I definitely want to.

::

'cause we have some fun ones.

::

We got the ghost stories and stories about the bees and just all the messes and the weird.

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Stuff that pop out.

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Oh, come on now you're teasing us ghost stories.

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I know.

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Those hurlston we're one of.

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And the.

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The historical cities of course.

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We have ghosts, yeah?

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OK, you got it. Before we go you gotta share US1 ghost story.

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OK, so we've had this property for I don't know.

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It's probably five or seven years ago and there was the owner had lived in this property and the husband had been terminally ill and we didn't really know the full breadth of the story.

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But when the residents moved in, we started getting some weird calls.

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They said hey, like I keep hearing.

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Things my baby is like talking to somebody in the middle of the night.

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We're hearing weird things in the attic and my watch, and my phone keep going missing and it sounds like there's like a phone ringing in the attic.

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All these sorts of things, and they're like whenever I go into this one room like it just doesn't.

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Feel right and that's one.

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Of them is like the husband ended up passing away in there.

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And their phone did go missing and end up in the attic, which is really big.

::

Tomorrow, but we've also had them where people have been forced out of doorways and have actually had like bruises on them like they just walked through somewhere and all of a sudden, they're like blasted out of the bathroom into the hallway wall.

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Yeah, it's really weird.

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Because you don't want to talk about these things, and when the people share these things, you can tell how guarded they are against it.

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Usually, a face-to-face conversation while you're.

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Inspecting the property.

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So yeah, it's pretty cool to hear about that.

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And like, is this real like I can't believe you're really telling us this, but yeah, we have two or three houses that we do get those stories.

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With and we don't.

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We don't disclose.

::

It because you don't have to and not everybody believes it so, but I'm sure we could turn into an Airbnb and get some extra money for the experience.

::

You know that reminds me like I had an uncle who did.

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He had he owned a professional cleaning service in a in a bigger city and there was a there was a bar down there that claimed to be haunted and then every once in a while, he'd share a story.

::

But one of them was that.

::

He would pull the bar seats away from the from the bar to vacuum and then one time he went back to the vacuum cleaner and when he turned around all of the bar seats had been moved back.

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No thank you, I'm out.

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I'm out definitely getting murdered tonight.

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We're out.

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No thank you.

::

Yeah, well Janet, this was fun.

::

I hope we'll talk again sometime.

::

But again, oak trust properties.

::

Find them on the socials.

::

Awesome, well thank you so much JD.

::

I appreciate your time today and having me on the show.

::

If you learned at least one actionable step to incorporate into your real estate investing.

::

If so, please consider returning some of that value by leaving a positive review, subscribing to our YouTube channel, or joining our growing network on Facebook and Twitter.

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You can find links to all of our social media accounts in the show notes. See you next time.